Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2

[Saberfire]

It is way too rushed...

[kenren]

In my opinion, it seems like they did not fully "utilize" the Knight of Rounds. Four of them died just like that in this episode and that's the end of the Rounds o_O. Xing Ke seems to be healthier than ever. For Nunnally to declare being enemies with Lelouch is just wrong (She would at least demand an explanation or something).

But hey, I like it Suzaku and Lelouch works together lol.

[Sapphire]

The series/season isn't over yet, but add all of the things you've learned from Code Geass! Here's mine..

--

*Brittainia can spend millions to create the atom bomb and other weapons in four days, but they can't be arsed creating an effective mass evacuation system for it's citizens.

*The evil of all of your actions is forgiven with to your enemies as long as you're reallllly sorry.

*No one EVER dies, even if they are decapitated and in bleeding pieces all over you, even if you hit them with the atom bomb, shoot them in the heart or brain, strangle them with your bare hands, give them AIDS, etc.

*Don't trust the past. Chances are someone more powerful than you has you brainwashed. The safest course of action is to assume you're being used and then try to kill/overtake anyone who looks at you the wrong way. But even then you might be following the whims of another..

*Having good chess skills means that you are possibly qualified to take over the world.

*Putting your hands to your face in passionate dispair and waving them in front of your eyes a lot might make you look like a diva, but it also gives you cool points, super intellect, and the power to control humanity.

[Board of Command]

There is only one thing I learned from Code Geass:

Tsunderes are fair game.

[KrayZ33]

- Chuck Norris isn't the only person who mastered surpise attacks and the roundhouse-kick

[Carnage]

It's okay if a show sucks as long as Gundam 00! comes after it.

[enkoujin]

If the new FLEIJA was bombed on Pendragon... does it mean they killed Oddyseus and the rest of the royal family?

Most likely, unless the Royal Family was troop-training elsewhere but the capital city of Britannia.


Suzuku is too pussy to fight Bismark IRL but he will fight him behind 3 tons of metal protection. Go figure.

Lancelot Albion is the newest upgrade of the Lancelot. It totally outmaneuvered and overpowered Bismarck's Galahad. That was why Suzaku had enough confidence to beat Bismarck. If Lelouch's "live" command on Suzaku forces him to do anything to stay alive, Suzaku will do it. Because Bismark was way too strong in terms of physical strength, Suzaku had to run away (otherwise, he would have been slained).


You think that most of the town would have been evacuated before the first FLEIA? Or did it all happen to fast to evacuate everyone? I mean if there is a massive arms battle happening on top of a town..

I don't believe there was an evacuation, otherwise, if there was, Nina wouldn't have felt so guilty for killing so many people that were Britannian.


I still don’t get how the king and Marriane were “defeated”.

Basically, Lelouch geass'd the "will of mankind" to "stop the progress of time". I wouldn't want to go deeply into this, but what I think is that Charles and Marianne were trying to freeze the entire physics of how the entire world worked, bringing people who have died back to life. In this time when "time" has stopped, they would assume everyone would be equal, and there would be no lies, as since they think that lies is what makes people unequal, and allow them to continue time.

I wouldn't bother with it.


About Schneiz. You guys were commenting about him being a ‘good’ or bad guy. I can’t say that he is necessarily either, at least on the standards you guys are setting for him. Of course we have yet to know any “true” ambitions for him other than the fact that he’s just acting in Brittania’s/world/his interest (not unlike everyone else).

He's a bad guy, if not, the second antagonist of the series. He was always an formidable advesery to be reckoned with by Lelouch ever since they were children. Not only that, he intends to change the world in an idea that conflicts that of Lelouch. Schneizel intends to change the world according to what he wants, that's all he's after.


He's just using people as pawns, not unlike Zero did, which explains why he doesn't give a damn who dies.

Shinjuku Ghetto, the first battle where Zero uses each and every soldier like pawns - with the exception that he uses all of them to their highest potential. That's really what differentiates the tactics of Lelouch from Schneizel. Then, there's the battle for the TianZi, and the mecha battle between the OBK and the Knights on episode 17 (despite XingKe leading) using soldiers like pawns. Another guy also said aloud after Lelouch freed the OBK hostages "isn't he just using you guys like pawns?", which is a pretty direct observation of how Lelouch treats his staff.


Nunnaly’s got to be just a tool. Agreed with Enko. No way she would agree to being on Schneiz’s side after he’s just busted out FLEIA.

I am 90% sure that Nunally knows everything about Lelouch. From geass to the OBK-life, from military battles to international politics, from clever assassinations to clever guerilla warfare, from lying to forcing (with the geass), she knows everything (through a Schneizel viewpoint, of course!). The fact that her own brother did not even disclose anything about what he was doing is probably going to be the lame reason why she's going against him.


Lulu should never have forced anything on the UN. I find it pretty unrealistic that the power would've gotten into the head of someone who has a strong resolve and much brilliance this easily.

Then Lelouch wouldn't have gotten anything done faster. Lelouch's way of planning things is quite radical in nature. If you had to wait months just to get something done (like what the rest of the current Security Council spends time doing), then the results won't be as appealing as if you get what you want now. Would you rather wait less than a second for a webpage to load, or would you wait five minutes?


Zero would not have been the leader of the world anyway if things had gone according to plan with him staying with the OBK and the UN.

It would vary depending on the conditions, but the OBK and UN most likely would have lost. The Knight of Rounds diminished some of the OBK's forces quite quickly, with the exception of Xingke, who was at par with Bismarck. There's the fact that Lancelot Albion was already created by then, which as we've seen, is quite ridiculous in power and mobility.


He should have just split his country in 2 or something and joined the UN. By doing so, he would've easily created the peaceful world that nunners wanted, which is the sole reason he became zero in the first place!

Actually, the reason he fought for Nunally was to create a place where he and Nunally could stay safe forever. Sure, Nunally was a pacifist, but since Lelouch had already stained his hands with blood and sin, he couldn't really create a "world of peace" for Nunally. Ryllharu's theory is quite interesting - the Requiem of Zero, the phase which Lelouch and Suzaku are currently working on does sound very accurate with accordance to both their respective psychologies.

Plus, if you were to split your empire, other minorities within your two countries would call for self-determination (or self-sovereignty), which conflicts with Lelouch's plans for world "dictatorship". Because that in turn would generate more countries that Lelouch wouldn't have power over. If Lelouch were to place one of his own geass'd kin or subordinate as the leader of the second split empire, then there would be anger from the UN, because he basically still controls all of Britannia, in a sense. Example of this would be today's Vladmir Putin, who stepped down from Russian President to Russian Prime Minister, but having Medvedev, Putin's subordinate, take the position of President to ensure that Putin still maintains power on all executive levels of government.

Just look at the old maps and past history. One in particular, Soviet Russia, for example, was one of the world's superpowers. But after the collapse of Soviet Russia, a whole bunch of countries (like Hungary, Poland, etc.) that Soviet Russia practically controlled all opted out of being part of the "new Russia". Or China. If China was to split up its country, then the other areas would be calling for independence as well (Tibet, namely).

Lastly, if the UN was going with the democratic process of proportional representation in terms of human population, then Britannia would have the most people, therefore, being able to veto any of the other countries' votes and opinions (majority of the tyranny, anyone?). If the UN was willing to offer Britannia only 20% of the human population (alternatively called a "limited democracy"), there would be outrage from the Britannian community for others not being able to vote, dividing the country into two halves, people who can be counted for voting, and those who cannot. This sets up an elitism type of government, which currently undermines Lelouch's government of an ex-aristocratic system.

The fact that the UN was even negotiating with Britannia were bad ideas. If Lelouch were to join Britannia, disregarding all the previous events that would occur, would still have enemies in the UN, specifically, that of Sumeragi and the OBK (which is the entire organization's military force), which could rebel against Britannia at any time because:

1) Top level staff of the OBK know of Lelouch's identity, with the fact that he has the supernatural power of geass.

2) Many people of the countries will never forgive each other for past atrocities. Best example of this is, and still will be until further notice, the Israeli-Arab conflict in the Middle East.


P.S. Does that chinese girl with the black hair who was leading the UN meeting (I think she is kaguya?) know that lelouch is Zero? Does Xingke?

Yes, she does. Hence, she looked away from Lelouch to avoid being geass'd, although another reason would be that she found out her "self-proclaimed" lover is actually a Britannian. Additionally, she's not Chinese. She's Japanese. The Chinese one is the TianZi, the girl with white hair.

I really need to stop analyzing so deeply.

EDIT: To the person who neg rep'd me, it's not spamming. Spamming is posting repetitively with useless posts that produce no discussion at all, while mine actually answer questions.

[Sapphire]

WALL OF TEXT - But I'll reply to a few things.

I get why Suzuku fought. I was joking.The town -should- have been evacuated. I honestly don't see too many 'good' and 'bad' people in this series per se, but I agree with the antagonist viewpoint. The debate wasn't if he is an antagonist, however, it was whether he sucks as a human or not. I maintain that he's no worse than everyone else.

*stabs Zero and Suzuku's friendship*

[masamuneehs]

- they're not dead until you see the body. and poke it a few times with a stick. violently.
- pizza hut is the best pizza ever (ugh, fucking disgusting crap)
- the best escape vehicle ever is a motorbike with a sidecar
- you CAN move your King into check
- FABULOUSness > super powers... until the final episode...
- the irreplaceable miracle makers' importance will always be glossed over if they're not young and sexy (Diethard Syndrome)
- people have an ingrained desire to have lolis rule over them
- the technology of the future involves a big, spinning square that shoots light
- speaking in a different voice is the new 'wearing a barely there mask to completely conceal your identity'
- cats hate homos

[darkmetal505]

- Brittanian princes can produce giant flying fortresses out of their asses

[tystic]

"Superpowers only come from the eyes, so all you have to do is cut them out and all problems are solved."

"You can always come up with a stunt to get out of any situation and have it take place 20 minutes ago."

"Humans pass out in excess of 6g without training, 9 or so with training, but it's ok if you're in a machine called 'Nightmare' because acceleration doesn't count."

"If a machine looks awesome, even though it can just get through battles right after it's built it will still win battles when the enemy has upgraded platforms 5 times."

"Contact lenses CAN block superpowers."

"Everyone's consciousness resides in the storm clouds of Jupiter."

"Rename someone with that of a fruit and they have the ability to come back from the dead and make you regret it."

"If you want to challenge the ruler of the world, do so AFTER you leave school."

"If you're really cool your weapons are 2x more powerful, angry 10x more powerful, but sadness and grief will cut power by a factor of 4."

"A middle-aged woman can dress up like a school-age boy, KISS A GIRL, and still no one will be the wiser."

[MFauli]

- "Even if you suck, you can make an appearance on TV"

:-(

[The Heretic Azazel]

"It is not only plausible, but consistent, when you are SEVERELY outmanned, to wipe out entire fleets of the enemy by taking advantage of and destroying the land they're on/water they're in."

[shinta|hikari]

The Kallen invitation was a friendly one. He simply wanted to return to hos old school life.

Lelouch is not Light, so he does care when someone is sacrificing his life for him willingly despite knowing his lies, especially if he does not see the point of doing so because he has lost all reason to live at that point.

[shinta|hikari]

Well, Schneizel is the type of person that smiles at genocide and nuking millions of people. Just think of what he is capable of. I'd say he is a bit worse than everyone else, well unless you think 1000 lives is equal to 45 million.

@enkoujin - While I do not particularly dislike being mistaken for Ryllharu, I still want to clarify that I came up with the Requiem of Zero theory. He might not want to be associated with it, and there is also credit if it does come true.

The UN had to negotiate with Britannia, since not doing so means war, and war means meaningless deaths. They had to take the smallest chance that the new kind emperor may really want peace.

@lelouch - Lelouch was rushing because he had to counteract Schneizel's plans. In the end, he was still too late since the first strike went to the big brother.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm not sure if someone posted this already, but here it is.

Get it here (http://sphere211.org/%5BschneizelXkannonOTP%5D_Code_Geass_R2_-_0.923_%5BPicture_Drama%5D_%5BFabulously1080p%5D_% 5B2E02E0E1%5D.mkv.torrent)

It's a C.C. and Kallen episode.

[Buffalobiian]

@lelouch - Lelouch was rushing because he had to counteract Schneizel's plans. In the end, he was still too late since the first strike went to the big brother.

So exactly what would he have done if he beat Schneizel? Simply take control of the UN?

[shinta|hikari]

He needed power, and fast. That's it.

What exactly do you mean by beat Schneizel?

[RyougaZell]

The Kallen invitation was a friendly one. .

And he specifically had to invite her when she fell on him and they were on a very interesting position huh...?

I think Lelouch truly cares for both CC and Kallen, but currently he is pushing Kallen away, to save her from whatever he plans to do to himself (destroy himself maybe?) while he probably is somewhat annoyed at CC for knowing the truth and not telling him. Yet CC is useful, that is why she was not erased alongside Marianne and Charles.

[shinta|hikari]

And he specifically had to invite her when she fell on him and they were on a very interesting position huh...?

Yes. It's Code Geass. I can't believe you even wondered about it.

So Lelouch is annoyed at the person who threw away her ultimate goal for him, while he is secretly in love with the girl who can't even believe in him. Okay.

Seriously though, I do agree that he cares for both of them and that he is pushing Kallen away for her own sake, but it is really hard for me to think that Lelouch is romantically interested in anyone except his sister.

[RyougaZell]

Seriously though, I do agree that he cares for both of them and that he is pushing Kallen away for her own sake, but it is really hard for me to think that Lelouch is romantically interested in anyone except his sister.

Which is very disturbing...

But hey... Britannia surely practices in-breeding to protect pureness of blood... no wait... thats Harry Potter.

[Yukimura]

Seriously though, I do agree that he cares for both of them and that he is pushing Kallen away for her own sake, but it is really hard for me to think that Lelouch is romantically interested in anyone except his sister.

How can you forget his man-friend Spinzaku Yamato?!

[shinta|hikari]

I said romantically, not sexually.

[shinta|hikari]

Here is one of the sound episodes included in the 2nd sound episode release for R2. I did the translations and Oyabin did the video, as before. Again, it is mostly comedy, and not really of the yaoi type this time. I hope you guys enjoy it!

PAPARAPA (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ewcpdg2mr8k)

EDIT:

Youtube links are up. Enjoy.

Parapa 1 (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=eg7ywgPxhEo)
Parapa 2 (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=LbWRKn3xZWA)

[Inazuma]

If you are a table hopper, you will create weapons of mass destruction.

[RyougaZell]

Absolutely random...

The best character wasn't there as well =/

LOLed at the final spell...


Great job Shinta, Oyabin.

[RyougaZell]

Woot!!!
Awesomeness... but who was the frail sister? CC?

[oyabun]

No prob! I'm just glad I didn't have to search yayoi pictures of Lulu and Suzaku.. :D

[Dark Dragon]

Trading your triumph card to the enemy for your country back despite that fact that they have the necessary power to recapture it in 5 minutes is a totally valid strategy.

[shinta|hikari]

I think so. That's why Kallen was complaining. Frail sisters don't eat half a room of pizzas.

[shinta|hikari]

The youtube links are up! Check the first post for the links. I hope that youtube does not remove them this time. The first two sound episodes for R2 were half removed (one of two parts were deleted) because of some third party claim, which was not even explained.

[Buffalobiian]

Woot!!!
Awesomeness... but who was the frail sister? CC?

Lol, they could pass off Kallen as frail, but C.C. as hard working?? NEVER!! (unless it's a memory loss)

[RyougaZell]

Lol, they could pass off Kallen as frail, but C.C. as hard working?? NEVER!! (unless it's a memory loss)

I LOLed...

Yeah, specially since Kallen already took that persona during her role on Season 1 at Ashford... and CC is laaaaazy.

Loved the room... CC's half full of pizza boxes, while Kallen's half was covered in undergarments... lol

[shinta|hikari]

This explains why only C.C.and Kallen deserve a shot at being with Lelouch. Someone needs to offset his OC personality.

[Yukimura]

Think about it, of all the interpersonal relationships Lelouch has had he always holds out some dim hope that Suzaku would 'come over to his side' and be a part of his life. He cut Kallen loose, he tended to avoid Shirley, and he seems to have a more working but still caring relationship with C.C. but he gets his panties in a bunch over Suzaku on numerous occasions.

I'm certainly no fan of yaoi pairings but it seems like they are trying to beat us over the head with the Suzaku x Lelouch angle and I'm not one to deny something just because I find it distasteful.

[shinta|hikari]

Uh, I was kidding.

That pairing was one of the most obvious since the start of the show. I think I have noted that several times before ever since season 1. Still, Lelouch has kissed all 3 girls (kallen, shirley and C.C. {C.C. twice so she wins}), while Suzaku only gets "Kill Suzaku" as an order from Lelouch to his subordinates.

[Sapphire]

When did he kiss CC?!

[shinta|hikari]

Wut? You did marathon the show right?

[RyougaZell]

Actually... Lelouch never kissed neither of the three girls... all three of them kissed him without no reaction from him (that is... reciprocate)

[Sapphire]

Wut? You did marathon the show right?
I don't rememberrrrrr

Great things come from google.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA-84DoqF9w

[RyougaZell]

This explains why only C.C.and Kallen deserve a shot at being with Lelouch. Someone needs to offset his OC personality.

OC?
Out of Character? Or what did ya mean?


And while we are at it... why not both with him?

or better yet... me instead of Lelouch. Lol.

[shinta|hikari]

Obsessive Compulsive.

[Kraco]

Very good work! Thanks!

It was certainly very random but then again, these have tended to be random in the past as well, and the plot wasn't any worse for that. Quit a few characters in as well.

[Buffalobiian]

Haha, that was a good one. Awesome work by you two once again.

Oyabin.....Mini-skirt C.C............where can i get it?

btw, that part where C.C. tells them give them time to fantasise was hilarious.

[shinta|hikari]

I've been waiting for someone to ask.

You can get it here (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=397617#post397617).

[Buffalobiian]

I've been waiting for someone to ask.

You can get it here (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=397617#post397617).

....:confused: .........:eek: ............:D ........

*lost in silence*

[animus]

That's a pretty hard thing to forget, lol. Especially since it's in the huge spiraling climactic end that is known as Code Geass episodes 23-25.

[Sapphire]

Okay okay I remember now. In my defense it took me several months to finish the last part of season 1.

[Shinji Ikari]

Human ambition inevitably leads to destruction.

[shinta|hikari]

@Shinji - Well, it also leads to progress.

A ninja bodyguard can save you from death even after being engulfed by an explosion caused by a weapon of mass destruction. Lesson - Everyone needs a ninja.

Feet can cut metal spearheads as long as they look sharp enough due to the art style. Lesson - Style over substance.

[David75]

[Nightspeed] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 - 23 [H 264 1280x720 AAC][C5934F86] mkv 350Mb @ Mininova (http://www.mininova.org/get/1803875)

gg?:
A fake was circulating. The original one should be there quickly:
http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/

[Inazuma]

Scheinzel MUST die.

[NeoBear]

wow that was actualy pretty good it felt alot like Legend of the Galactic Heros

and oh we had a decoy ship for little Nunnaly .... fuck you that was week tits =(

also i guess they had no idea what to do with Cornelia cause she went out like a bitch...or did she LAUNCH THE DECOY SHIP!!!!!!!

[David75]

for those who are a bit lazy, the direct link to GG's:

[gg] Code Geass R2 - 23 [F76515CC] mkv 394Mb @ ggkthx (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/[gg]_Code_Geass_R2_-_23_[F76515CC].mkv.torrent)

[Yukimura]

Wait Schniezel's a bad guy!?!?! HE wants to kill half the world?!?!? I NEVER SAW THIS COMING!

Anyway, I'm not liking the direction this final battle is taking. It basically boils down to which side has more named characters piloting giant robots. Think about it, every time Schneizel started to gain ground it was because he sent named characters to fight unnamed characters. Since Lelouch only has two named characters to Schniezles six (GJ OotBK attack the guy who gave you everything you have withthe stuff that he gave you, you have 0 honor). Lelouch has no realistic chance because nameed characters >>> Strategy. So now we're going to get some sort of insane conclusion where Nina creates a Neutron Jammer and Damocles just randomly falls out of the sky. But at least it sets things up for R3 where someone will create a Neutron Jammer canceler and plunge the world back into war once again.

P.S. Schneizel = Gilbert Durandal - Patience

[David75]

Wait Schniezel's a bad guy!?!?! HE wants to kill half the world?!?!? I NEVER SAW THIS COMING!

Anyway, I'm not liking the direction this final battle is taking. It basically boils down to which side has more named characters piloting giant robots. Think about it, every time Schneizel started to gain ground it was because he sent named characters to fight unnamed characters. Since Lelouch only has two named characters to Schniezles six (GJ OotBK attack the guy who gave you everything you have withthe stuff that he gave you, you have 0 honor). Lelouch has no realistic chance because nameed characters >>> Strategy. So now we're going to get some sort of insane conclusion where Nina creates a Neutron Jammer and Damocles just randomly falls out of the sky. But at least it sets things up for R3 where someone will create a Neutron Jammer canceler and plunge the wrold back into war once again.

P.S. Schneizel = Gilbert Durandal - Patience

Wait, Lelouch has C.C. and C.C.>>> named characters :o ;)
Plus this named characters can change sides again... they are retards for not seeing/understanding Fleija's meaning.

Nunally is the badest of all... in fact she didn't care for Lelouch...
"You're lying to protect me, so I hate you. However Schneizel nii-san kills millions of people, I like him better than you now."
"Please nii-san, let me mass-kill people, I want the super button, please nii-san"
Yup, I'm pretty sure Nunally is a demon in disguise.
Everyone thinks the mask title for that ep is meant for Schneizel, but to me it's for Nunally...

[RyougaZell]

I thought I couldn't dislike someone more than Suzaku. Ogi wins the place now. Seriously... all because he decided to fuck a Britannian.

Interesting to see Xingke following Scheneizel when its obvious he doesn't care if Tianzi survives.

Cornelia can't die that easily. I see her doing a broadcast, aided by Diethard since he only cares about causing disturbances, to announce to the world Schneizels plans...

Nunnally is a retard.

According to the preview Kallen is about to kill Lelouch, but I don't think she will be able to, and not because Suzaku or CC interfere, but because her heart won't allow her to do so.

EDIT:

Well... Kallen is indeed crying.
30 Second Preview for Ep 24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TExE-6nsJqQ)

[Kraco]

I think you, Yuki, either shifted to some pessimism gear or are/were expecting way too much. Even putting that aside, I think it's at this point hasty to judge the ending or what leads to it. This show has been able to surprise a few times.

I had no problems with this episode, nor how the battle proceeded. There are two reasons for this: Lelouch has made an active attempt to alienate the world, including his old friends, from himself, and secondly it didn't look from the beginning like he had really planned to win this battle with better troops (which is naturally connected to the first point as well). Most of his plans have relied on surprises and gambles anyway, so there's no reason to assume otherwise. Maybe Schneizel is the opposite in that regard, relying on very reliable uber warheads and gathering on his side everybody Lelouch failed to play out of the game.

Many people should still die before the end. I wonder who they are. If this was even a bit more traditional show you'd think Viletta would remain and Ohgi die but who knows... Maybe Viletta will die and that will drive Ohgi crazy.

[masamuneehs]

What she can't be dead, she's got to come back! 2pac says 'Ratta tat tat tat tat! That's the way it is!

Schneizel went all evil the second he got a big, super powered mobile fortress! SHOCK!

Super strong female warrior side character pulling a last minute "I'm gonna fight for the guy I love, even if he's a jerk with a sister complex!" ???

Nina getting lots of screen time... and part in a 'building' montage? Is that some surreeohs h@xx I smellz cookin' ?

Kanon = Rei lite?

Lelouch laying a completely ridiculous natural disaster based trap to pull himself out of a jam?

"Somethings will never change"

Especially when it's Sunrise who've been riding the same tired formula in their mecha titles for awhile now. I've got a really bad feeling about season 2 of Gundam 00...

And now, Yuki, first off, it's insane to say "the Black Knights have no honor! How dare they fight against the guy who manipulated them for his own purposes and would have gladly thrown away the entire country they'd built just to save his cripple sister!"

Second, it doesn't matter how many named characters Schneizel has. Lelouch has Suzaku Zala Yamato, who is like Amuro Ray on HGH steroids injected into his eyeballs. (by the way, Suzaku was pretty boss in this episode, wasn't he?). Plus, CC in a mech always kicks ass, even though it's pretty inconceivable that she'd have ever learned how to pilot one...

oh, and i liked the episode. probably because it was just trying to build up this final battle and not just stumbling blindly toward a Geass standard 'wtf plot twist' episode ending. also, big fleet battles are awesome. until you remember that all that matters is which named characters win/lost to other named characters. Legend of the Galactic Heroes this ain't.

[Kraco]

Legend of the Galactic Heroes this ain't.

I might be very tempted to choose named characters over the heavily scripted battles of LOGH any day. At least in Geass there's always the chance a named character could die or switch sides, but in the LOGH format when the story dictated one side has to win, the other side would suddenly become idiotic and lose by default. Plus in Code Geass we have those unbelievable surprises coming out of nowhere.

[animus]

What was the point of keeping Cornelia alive, if they killed her off in the dumbest way possible. Should've just been done with her during the first FLEIA was shot. Something makes me think she might still be alive, but it was so random and rushed that she might actually really be dead after all. I'd think the pink Lancelot would be for her though, but I guess it's not.

[MFauli]

http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2023%20(XviD)%20%5b6F08F36D%5d.avi.torrent
http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2023%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b1F9F2D38%5d.mkv.tor rent

[enkoujin]

What was the point of keeping Cornelia alive, if they killed her off in the dumbest way possible. Should've just been done with her during the first FLEIA was shot. Something makes me think she might still be alive, but it was so random and rushed that she might actually really be dead after all. I'd think the pink Lancelot would be for her though, but I guess it's not.

She was used to question Schneizel's modus operandi so we can learn and find out his philosophies and what he tends to do that makes him an antagonist to Lelouch.

[animus]

Because we clearly needed her to do that for us, without figuring out a few episodes earlier right?

[shinta|hikari]

Actually, Suzaku was hardly Kira in this episode. Kallen is just as powerful, and she is on the other side. Lelouch is obviously losing, and as usual, he decided to gamble his way to victory (this time using Nina). Lelouch was never a "Light" who tries to plan for every conceivable scenario and making baseless predictions that always turn out correct. Like in chess, you can only plan ahead so much, that is why he makes use of factors supposedly not included in the game to beat a superior enemy (geass, all the battlefiled hax he uses).

Nunnally is such an idiot. So she believes a long lost brother who she basically knows nothing about over her brother who has taken care of her for the majority of his life. Then she confirms her stupid ass resolve by believing an obvious lie told by a brother who she just declares to be a chronic liar. Is it not insane how she can just deny everything that Lelouch has done for her before which obviously contradicts what his final statement to her says? Still, she is hardly evil. She is just stupid.

[Idealistic]

She is not dead. She will be the reason Lelouch wins! Surprise attack! lol@machine gun turrets hidden in the walls activated by finger snaps. Funny how it shot Cornelia from behind, but it didn't hit Schneizal.

Although this show took a turn for the worse the past few episodes.... I wouldn't say it's THAT bad. But I'm not liking it THAT much either. It certainly is not R1 for sure. Unless the ending is a OMGWTF awesomeness type of thing.

[Carnage]

I did NOT see any of this coming. Code Gayass doesn't fail to please!

[Ryllharu]

She is not dead. She will be the reason Lelouch wins! Surprise attack! lol@machine gun turrets hidden in the walls activated by finger snaps. Funny how it shot Cornelia from behind, but it didn't hit Schneizal.
You know, this brought me to a similar solution, but with a different person. Diethard. All we've ever seen him do is run around from side to side (and recruit Sayoko). I find it strange that he suddenly has a change of heart and wants to follow someone who would rule by fear rather than manipulation. While Lelouch's subjects may not be willing, at least they think that they are. If they become happier people for it, who are we to argue? It's exactly what happened to Viletta. She finally realized it recently too, and I suppose the pregnancy is the surest example of that.

But Diethard chose someone who would paralyze his subjects through fear of death. Diethard claimed early in season 1 that the reason he followed Zero was because he believed it was someone who would revolutionize how the world functioned, and he wanted to be there. Schniezel is no different from his father and V.V. (not Charles' secret goal we only learned of now, but the words he always told people in speeches). Nothing changes with that. Once the war is said and done, the world is back to the same state it always was, paralyzed through fear of Britannia.

Diethard has seen Zero change the structure of the world. He's seen Lelouch change Britannia completely. Perhaps he just moves to wherever he thinks the greatest upheaval will be. Still, I wonder if this is the occasion that Diethard will finally choose to act, rather than run.

I could see Schniezel about to declare victory over Lelouch, only to be shot in the back by Diethard.

[RyougaZell]

Diethard has always been a man who works behind someone else, because he wants to see what will come from their actions. I really do not see him as someone who will actively act against Schneizel.

But I do agree... this time seems the perfect time for he to act. But like I said on my previous post, I believe he will aid Cornelia into informing the world of Schneizels true intentions.

Sure... Lelouch was to be a dictator... but Schenizel wants them all dead. The choice isn't hard of who you want to support... at least until you backstab again.

[darkmetal505]

I like how Lelouch and Schniezel were playing chess with real armies. Standard play from both brothers and then they're decide to cheat.

Lelouch: Pawn to E4!
Schnizel: Pawn to F6!
Lelouch: Bishop to C4!
Schnizel: *fuck it, imma cheat with hax* Activate level 5 ultra armour!
Lelouch: *heh, I planted mines under his front lines*
Schnizel: *trump card time* "Nuclear launch detected"
Lelouch: *hope my Nina armory upgrades are finished* "At least I have C.C with my new pink battlecruiser."

Cornelia: "I'm back bitchez. If a Britannian princess can survive a nuke, why can't I survive a magically appearing machine gun."

But I'm seriously sad that Cornelia is gone.

[Board of Command]

The real Cornelia obviously escaped on a decoy ship.

[MFauli]

Awsome, awsome episode.
THAT was the old "Code Geass", that was the old Lelouch.
I absolutely love when he and Schneizel moved their units around as if it was a chess game. It had been these kind of battle strategies that made season 1 awsome, and it seems that at least the last couple of episodes are showing the former glory.

Nothing to criticze...oh, maybe the fact that Schneizel didnt fire Freia directly at Lelouch just because of hostages. "The battle for the world", what do some hostages matter, even if it´s someone popular? That was a make-up reason of the show creators, but oh well, i´ll give you that one.

[xtallography]

If Cornelia actually died from that I would extremely surprised. Heck, at this point I'm waiting for them to bring Euphie back in some sort of zombie attack plan.

It also seems slightly ridiculous that Nunnaloser would stop believing in the person that protected her for all of those years and instantly start believing the Schniez. To be honest I'm just kinda waiting for this season to wrap itself up.

[masamuneehs]

i still can't believe how many people are clinging to the idea that Cornelia is alive. She's a minor character who has been used throughout R2 mostly as discoverer of plot points. There's only two episodes left, and if the best this show can do is reviving a recently killed minor character to deliver a sudden twist, that really is pretty sad.

at first I was inclined to think that Diethard had switched sides for good, and that he will be with Schneizel to the very end. First, as much as I love the guy, he's a minor character, and as we get down to the final episodes it becomes less likely that minor characters do anything but die and wrap up their storylines or get some bit scenes and take part in the post-climax wind-down.

But after I read some of these posts, I think about that scene where Lelouch calls Schneizel, and how they make a point to show him looking down at Diethard, and then a quick shot of him. I could be reading too much into it, but it almost had the feel of a "Oh, you're still there? Good." secret glance...

Kraco, I have never before felt such opposition to your words. Not only did you use most of your post to bash another show, but from what you wrote, it seems pretty clear that you never got that far into it, because the things you wrote are, quite simply, not true.

And I agree with everyone else now that a decent quality sub is out that I can catch some more of the dialouge with: what they're doing with Nunnally basically makes no sense. They basically transformed her, overnight, from a sweet, ideal wielding Euphie to a young, crippled Charles (but replace VV with Schneizel who, ironically, lies even more).

[shinta|hikari]

Well, one month of brainwashing makes it feasible, if the subject is a blind little girl who was blatantly lied to by two of her most trusted companions for her entire life (at least this is what she believes after discovering the lies even before meeting up with Schneizel). This does not make her less stupid though.

It seems that there is more to that glance than it seems. Maybe Diethard has been geassed to fulfill a certain command from way before. I don't think Lelouch would let someone as wily as him hang around without any form of insurance.

[Yukimura]

The reason I'm miffed at the OotBK isn't that they are fighting Lelouch now. It's because no one seems to care about the irony of their situation at all. I don't disagree with their willingness to fight him but everyone's seeming total lack of respect for all that he did help them achieve galls me. Then you add in the fact that Schneizel is using them just as much as Lelouch was with the only difference being that he's more open about it. It's sad to see.

Anyway as to the battle it was pretty much the opposite of a typical Code Geass battle. Usually the underdog uses lots of named characters to defeat the favorites grunt army. This time the favorite also had most of the named characters. Somehow it's not as fun when the other side barely seems to have a chance tactically or strategically, even after a ZOMG h@x move.

I went back over the battle and not only did Schneizel's named characters completely destroy Lelouch's grunts but I don't even remember seeing a single instance of grunt on grunt combat. Maybe it was part of the chess analogy though. Lelouch only has pawns, a Queen, and a Bishop, with a Rook/Bishop potentially on the way. Schneizel has one knight, and through the OotBK two Queens, a Rook a bishop, and another Knight.

I'm finding it hard to have faith in this battle being won with any sort of strategy or clever tactic. Queen Suzaku could still be used to pull of an upset but the mass army of high ranking pieces bearing down on Lelouch's means it's going to come down to either a mistake (Kallen's change of heart?) or a crazy last minute surprise(Nina's project) to finish this thing off. In either case I'm seeing a Gundam Seed ending type set up where there's a giant battle involving a superweapon and the people trying to stop it. Then once the super weapon is taken out everyone just throws down their weapons and dances around in joy and fellowship and it's over. Geass has seemed more entertaining than SEED was so far and it would suck to see it end almost exactly the same.

And putting my two cents in on the actual current topic, Nunally has never seemed particularly bright in the first place. I can't really blame her for being manipulated by Schniezel who has manipulated pretty much everyone else already. But still, it's an unfortunate character assassination and I think the only reason she's still around is because they wanted the shock value of her appearance for the previous episode and they can't just get rid of her, though they certainly seem to have done just that with Cornelia...

[Buffalobiian]

It seems that there is more to that glance than it seems. Maybe Diethard has been geassed to fulfill a certain command from way before. I don't think Lelouch would let someone as wily as him hang around without any form of insurance.

I can so see that happening.

Super fleet battle overshadowed LelouchxC.C I tell you. I felt a kind of long dormant joy seeing them back to back, holding hands...and when C.C. calls Lelouch by his name you just.....melt :o

[shinta|hikari]

Yes, and that scene silences all those who ever doubted who Lelouch will end up with, if he of course, does not die or something.

[Kraco]

Who knows what could have happened with Nunnaly had Lelouch treated her differently during the first video conference. But he did what he did with all of his old allies: Pushed her away as far as he could. Despite all his public speeches it seems somewhat likely he made quite an unholy pact with Suzaku and is heading down a dim road for himself, though likely better for the rest of the world. I wonder if Kallen will learn his plan or if she simply can't kill him for old times sake. Seeing how we are running out of episodes, either could happen, I suppose, depending on when and how they intend to reveal what Lelouch and Suzaku specifically aim for.

[animus]

Hopefully we will still learn C.C's real name, or I will be REALLY miffed.

[oyabun]

Probably the main reason that most people here want Cornelia to be alive because simply.. she's hot. :D

[oyabun]

hahaha What a reaction.. But no love for godzilla? parapara!

[Buffalobiian]

hahaha What a reaction.. But no love for godzilla? parapara!

Oh, yes....he was absolute GOLD:D:D. I don't know if that slang is something Australian, but it means it's totally awesome!! paparapa!

I couldn't think of a more fitting villian, good choice of visuals.

[oyabun]

Well that credits goes to Shinta. He provided the Godzilla pictures.. And it was damn funny composing it hahaha

[RyougaZell]

Lelouch's Requiem of Zero probably will be he making himself the enemy of the world to unite them all, and then sacrificing himself to kill Schneizel and end up the curse of Geass by dieing as well.

That is the impression I get by pushing Kallen and Nunnally away with his lies and actions.

He isn't pushing CC away because she needs to die alongside him, so no code remains and no more geass can be created.

Suzaku is going to die as well just because he wants to die.

[shinta|hikari]

How can C.C. and Lelouch both die? It's an either or situation because of the geass and code relationship.

[RyougaZell]

I know that... but if they wished to end the Geass, as I believe, they would need to figure out something. Hey I would prefer if they survived... but seeing how the show is progressing, I do not see any other thing happening. Why push everyone else away if you are going to end immortal? And leaving CC behind will just ensure someone else gets Geass someday and the cycle renews.

[masamuneehs]

this was actually pretty good work. hats off to you guys on this one.

Paparapa!

[animus]

The two youtube links are the same one, btw.

[shinta|hikari]

Links fixed. Thanks.

[Buffalobiian]

Suzaku is going to die as well just because he wants to die.

I believe that part was was the "promise" that Suzaku mentioned. If he helped them, they promised he could die.

Side stuff about Conelia and machine gun, the gun fired at the area in front of Schneizel's feet. They'd probably use this point to show Cornelia come limping in with leg/abdomen wounds.

[DeathscytheVII]

What little respect I've had for Nunnally is gone now. She held herself up pretty well when she was governor but now she's just screaming "Manipulate me!". I'm surprised she didn't ask Schneizel to let her feel his hand, since that's her foolproof lie detector test lol. I seriously felt my stomach turn when she asks Schneizel in her sweet little voice "big brother, can I be the one to push the big shiny button that will nuke everyone?" *shivers*

On top of all the comments made so far, I also must express my disgust at Ohgi. If it weren't for Zero, he would still be a second rate car bombing terrorist blowing up innocent civilians in Toyko. He would never have met Viletta, never would be in OoTBK, he'd be NOTHING. And he just instantly turns on him without a second thought.

I seriously hope he dies soon, also for reducing the once-awesome Viletta into some passive, subservient molly maid of a useless character.

Aside from that, awesome ep :D, I'm surprised Lelouch wasn't able to use his intimate knowledge of the black knights more to his advantage. But I guess strategy can't into account the fact that they have four main characters in customized suits on their side.

[ChaosK]

Hopefully we will still learn C.C's real name, or I will be REALLY miffed.

C.C. is Lelouch's real mother, Marianne acted as a pseudo mother to Lelouch and Nunally in order to further their plans of destroying God. Rolo (which in Japanese can be pronounced Lolo) is Lelouch's real brother and Nunally is a fake as we've seen V.V. use her at will, she was definitely inserted into Lelouch's life randomly. When C.C. revealed her name to Lelouch, he realized she was his mother and also the mother of Rolo. (it all makes sense!!)
Also, I realize you are all capable of finding this yourselves but I found it amusing so I'm gonna post it here.

Schneizel’s skill list

Let’s see.

Aura of FABULOUS: Passive skill. Reduces all damage done to Schneizel by 75%. This also restores MP equal to the reduced damage amount.
Throw Money: Does damage equal to [amount of money thrown] * [some ridiculously high number].
Float System: Grants an ally float status.
Hadron Cannons: Fires the Hadron Cannons in a randomly targeted AoE.
Druid System: Reads enemies stats.
Charm: Causes Charm. Has 150% accuracy with females, and 75% accuracy with males.
Manipulate: Allows him to control an enemies actions. 50% chance of success.
Pretty Words: Heals allies HP.
Orange Implant: Revives Jeremiah with cyborg implants. Only V.V. gets the second stage of Orange Implant though.
Euphy: Nina-only target status effect and debuff removal spell.
Checkmate: Causes Berserk with perfect accuracy.
Protection of Interference: Passive skill. When Schneizel’s life is in danger, Suzaku will automatically show up in Lancelot Conquista. Gets disabled later when he gains the Black Knights summon, but its not like he really needs it with the Aura of FABULOUS activated.
FLEIA Warhead: Fires a FLEIA warhead with the usage time and area limiter on.
Decoy: Creates a clone decoy of an ally. If the person it’s used on runs out of HP, the decoy will die instead.
Black Hole of Intelligence: AoE toggle. Debuffs Intelligence and Wisdom -100% to enemies within the AoE.
Mass Confusion: Causes Confusion with perfect accuracy in a large AoE.
FLEIA Arrow: “You’re drawing a bow on the Emperor of Britannia?” Yes Lelouch, yes he is.
Auto-Turret: With the snap of his fingers, Schneizel summons an auto-turret which attacks whatever he’d like it to. If the turret fires his way, he will be completely unaffected.
Black Knights: Summons the Black Knights~
Unlimited FLEIA Works: Replaces FLEIA Warhead later. Fires a FLEIA warhead with the limiter off. The cast time is faster and the AoE is larger.
Schneizel’s Mask: Self-buff. Raises all stats.

Made by mismacloud


I like how Lelouch and Schniezel were playing chess with real armies. Standard play from both brothers and then they're decide to cheat.

Lelouch: Pawn to E4!
Schnizel: Pawn to F6!
Lelouch: Bishop to C4!
Schnizel: *fuck it, imma cheat with hax* Activate level 5 ultra armour!
Lelouch: *heh, I planted mines under his front lines*
Schnizel: *trump card time* "Nuclear launch detected"
Lelouch: *hope my Nina armory upgrades are finished* "At least I have C.C with my new pink battlecruiser."

QFT



Cornelia: "I'm back bitchez. If a Britannian princess can survive a nuke, why can't I survive a magically appearing machine gun."

But I'm seriously sad that Cornelia is gone.
Cornelia lacks two important traits Nunnally possesses.
1. She isn't the center of anybody's life.
2. She isn't a blind paraplegic which doesn't give her immunity to nuclear blasts.

[xtallography]

Maybe there was a lead lined refrigerator lying around the hanger that Nunnally was able to hide in and ride out the blast.

[David75]

Chaosk made me think of something:
What if Orange-kun Geass canceler doesn't cancel Charles Geass, or someone's geass we do not know yet, or have forgotten....
After all Orange-kun robot part was design by Charles' scientists... They had extensive knowledge of the Geass, so it'd be possible.

I'm still very much impressed at how fake Marianne death scene was, and how Nunally was inserted. It really wasn't much different from Rollo's insertion.
Also that memory of Lelouch frolicing with Suzaku and Nunally has a too sweet tone to it.

Well again, I may be wrong, but still, I wonder.

[Kraco]

Lelouch is already a siscon and now Chaos would make him a mothercon as well... Have some mercy, for pity's sake!

[insane]

i hope Schnizel dies...

[Besu]

But I'm seriously sad that Cornelia is gone.

And how 'easy' it went. I hope it's not vital

[ChaosK]

Lelouch is already a siscon and now Chaos would make him a mothercon as well... Have some mercy, for pity's sake!

Brother too! :D

[KrayZ33]

Oh man I had really problems to remember who fights against who and why...the story got far to complex, it looked like a "free for all" to me...

however this episode was pretty good... finally some action

but man, why did nobody sneak up to nunally and trigger the bomb... would have been a lot of fun when everyone thinks that she triggered it even though no enemies were there.
and the people start to ask her "so you didn't trigger it? .... did you _see_ who did it?!"

btw the way Cornelia died was a bit.... lame...

not only that a full automatic sentry gun killed her by thinking of her as an enemy (hell how did they manage to do that anyway) but it was somehow a bit too fast.

[Buffalobiian]

I just think it's kind of ironic that after Charles' demise, we get Schneizel: the epitome user of lies and masks Charles seeked to destroy, and Lelouch&Co chose over stopping time.

[RyougaZell]

I was just remembering... did Kirihara died? Since Kaguya is obviously leading Kyoto now, alone without the rest of the 6 families.

And I guess Ougi believes Kirihara was geassed into believing Lelouch was trustable... since he had seen Lelouch's face and told them to trust him.

[David75]

Nightspeed is out:
[Nightspeed] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 - 24 [H 264 1280x720 AAC][9DB295AD] mkv 351Mb @ Mininova (http://www.mininova.org/get/1827983)

GG should be available in a while here:
http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/

[tystic]

Code Geass R2 - 24 (1280x720) - [gg] (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/%5Bgg%5D_Code_Geass_R2_-_24_%5B0A3E0FAC%5D.mkv.torrent)

[NeoBear]

and Cornelia lives ALL HAIL THE DECOY SHIP!

im ready for this to end this is to much drama for my poor little heart lol

oh on a side note i guess they have a crapload of them decoy ships cause Cornelias knight lives too...

anybody know wear you can buy a decoy ship cheap posibuly used?

[Yukimura]

Oh come on... why is Guilford alive?! I mean it's one thing to have a decoy ship but when someone's entire Knightmare is partially engulfed in the destructive doom sphere they should really stay dead!

Other than that I liked that Lelouch reused the Mao strategy on Schneizel. Normally I'd complain that it was unoriginal but Schneizel is certainly on a different level than Mao so for Lelouch to have been able to predict his responses that well actually means something.

Most of the Knightmare fighting in this ep seemed uninspired though. I didn't see much point in C.C. and Kallen's fight other than show casing the pink Lancelot so female model kitters would have something to grab. And what was that shield looking thing that C.C. had? Did it serve any actual purpose?

I did like how the lampshaded the fact that slicing the legs off a flying bipedal robot is not an effective means of neutralizing it's combat capability. And who couldn't like the Lance of Freaking Longinus stopping that last FLEIA.

I don't know what the future will hold but I'm banking on an ending where most of the major players from the first season (Lulu, Suzaku, Kallen, C.C.) either die or pass into obscurity and then zombie Schneizel and Xing-ke take over the world and usher in an era of peace.

[David75]

Even if her role wasn't developped that much, I liked Cornelia.
But I don't like dead characters coming back into a show. And Guilford really was totally engulfed in the sphere for me.
On a side note, strange how the same kind of weapon is used in two shows such as Code Geass and Macross Frontier. Maybe it's a usual tool in that kind of shows? I don't know since I do not watch a lot of the kind.


C.C. is back being human it seems, I mean she gets over her depression created by her immortality. However, whatever Lelouch or C.C. does, Lelouch will eventually die. Meaning C.C. will only have his lifespan to feel human again? Just some basic thinking, outside the plots that awaits.

I wonder what will happen next.

[RyougaZell]

Did CC really expected to win against Kallen in a Knightmare battle? At least she played her role, being cannon fodder so Lelouch could escape.

Is Lelouch really determined to make the world his enemy that he evens tells Sayoko, Llyod and Cecile to say they were being blackmailed?

Are the black knights so damn stupid they can't see the truth?

So many battles and just one more episode... I hope Kallen defeats Suzaku for once and for all. And I guess Lelouch will send Nunnally away and then destroy damocles with him and Schneizel still inside... and the world shall find the truth when Cornelia tells them.

Why the fuck is Viletta not informing the Black Knights about Cornelia? She was in the same building, was she not? Does she hate Lelouch that much? In that regard she is no better than Lelouch, by not giving vital information.

I still want Ougi to die. Diethard's death was poetic. He was not even worthy to be geassed, lol.

Damn it... I want Kallen finding the truth after defeating Suzaku and then tries to save Lelouch... only for him to die detonating everything... and how the hell will CC get back to Damocles when her Pink Lancelot was trashed?

EDIT:

I found on a blog quote's of phrases told by CC, Kallen and Nunnally on the last episodes...

CC's was said this episode:
Hurry up and go. And then come back. You said you will make me smile.

Nunnally's was said two episodes ago:
I will put an end to oniisama's sin.

And Kallen's hasn't been said to my knowledge... so I guess it will be said on the last episode... Ouf of respect for those that hate spoilers, I will not post it. If someone wants me to tell you what it was... do tell me and I shall PM it.

[Inazuma]

Exxxxxxxxxccuuusssseee me but, what the fuck is happening to this show ?

For 2 seasons mechs used to assplode if you scratched the paint, now you can cut the thing in two, it'll be alright ?

Nunnaly evolves into Nunnaloli and breaks the loli o meter by opening her eyes, I can predict Nunnaporn coming on the interwebs in less than a day.

Rippof of Evangelion, today in "Let's reuse something" the Lance of Longinus

Guilford fucked up by FLEIA comes back as a MIB agent

Knightmares fight based on "pew pew pew" shouted by a six years old

Useless named OBK character that was being defeated by unamed is actually SLOWING SPINZAKU DOWN ?

Kannon is so hot for Lelouch " His Geass is that powerfull? I'm so wet, take me hard Emperor."

Viletta : " I'm going to have a Baby it having a father is only extra weeeeeeeee "

CC went out in her pink, with aftermarket VampireRound Shieldish thing realizing that she was acutally having fun and gave a shit. Boosting Bandai toys sells at the same time but who gives a shit ?

And Scheinzel, in fact, was just an Emo with a position and an IQ.

Side note ; By the way, if we think FMA style thus considering that Tomato + Potato = Pomato. What would result of Xing Ke + Tian Zi ? Loli Swordman expert what ?
Or Xing Ke + Ninja Maid ? Chuck Norris' real wife ?

[Carnage]

Lelouch should just go ahead and use his Geass on the bitch. If it worked on God then why won't it work here? Unless you're telling me Nunally's will surpasses that of god.

[MFauli]

I dont get why Diehard shot at Lelouch. Why did he take action? The whole show he followed those who seemed to create a new future. So why not change sides again?

Other than that...well, lets end this

Oh and why exactly couldnt Nunnaly see until now?

[NeoBear]

cause her dad Geassed her rember

[Ryllharu]

Charles and Marianne had Nunnally "forget" that her eyes were functional, and gave her all of Anya's memories of that attack. Maybe Lelouch will Geass Nunnally into shooting him, and then having her declare herself Empress now that she is no longer disadvantaged, since his whole plan (in season 1) was to make a world where she would be safe.

I had heard that the Anti-Fleija device was supposed to be similar to the Evangelion Lance of Longinus, but to actually see it twist and change shape in exactly the same way (but in reverse, since it twisted into prongs) resulted in an instant facepalm.


2 bucks says Kallen beats Spinzaku. She always forced him to retreat when she had an inferior uber-knightmare, now that she has the technological advatage as well this should be a piece of cake. Then again, Spinzaku now has so much more mobility with his shoulder-stockings...

It's a toss-up.

[Board of Command]

Cornelia escaped from the magical machine guns on her decoy ship.

Guilford escaped from FLEIA on his decoy ship.

AHAHAHAHAHA I saw this coming all along!

[Claire]

If it worked on God then why won't it work here? Unless you're telling me Nunally's will surpasses that of god.

Ahahhha, that made me laugh really hard.

[oyabun]

I still can't believe Guilford survive.. I thought he had seen the light..

[RyougaZell]

Well... Ryl has been saying it for weeks... this is Sunrise

The only thing I care now is that Kallen doesn't die. The rest of the world can perish if they want to.

[animus]

Man, why did they even bring Cornelia and Guillford back? Unless it's just for some lame epilogue flash that shows those two with kids, or rebuilding the Empire or something.

[Katsura]

Guilford and Diethard are crazy people : ) diethard wants to die by geass lol

[FelixZeroAlastor]

I don't really see Kallen legitimately beating Spinzaku Yamato. While they may have equal machines Lelouch gave Spinny the equivalent of Kira's seed. Maybe if her and Gino team up but he only has half a robot and no sword. Then again Spinny could always go down like Kira did against Shinn in destiny.

The entire Guilford living thing is ridiculous. I feel like I got slapped with another Mwu or something. I mean really he saw the light of death in his cockpit just like Mwu did and here we are. Hey maybe that Black Knight with the glasses survived too. I didn't see him physically vaporize. Why not?

I don't think Lelouch will die at all. I think him, Suzaku, and C.C. (still waiting to hear that real name damn it!) will just retire into obscurity on some odd island and rock on a chair like some old man.

Other than the Lance though great episode. I especially loved how he Geassed Schneizel. Now it's just Lelouch vs Nunally. So sad though everything is coming to an end.

[DeathscytheVII]

"The best way to atone for your past sins is to kill even MORE people."

"The ends always justify the means."

"The best way to win a battle is to completely rearrange the field to your advantage" (lelouch doctrine :p)

"Cornelia looks hot in bondage gear "

[David75]

On a side note, long aga we were discussing about Nunally being geassed into the disabled she is. That argument was rejected since she should have been anti-geassed by Orange-kun.
Apparently not.

And Lelouch knew about that Geass Nunally received for a long time, since Orange-kun anti-geassed him a lot of eps back. I then guess that Nunally really is his sister. I hope there isn't some sort of Geass that isn't anihilated by Orange-kun's device. After all that device was created by Charles team, with their extensive knowledge on Geass, would they be able to prevent from erasing some specific Geasses?

[FelixZeroAlastor]

If your cockpit doesn't fill with your own blood you aren't dead. (Unless you were a completely useless or unimportant character)

Don't trust the T.V. to tell you where your enemy is. Just look around you to find him.

[animus]

Decoy Ships will help you survive a nuclear holocaust.

[Kraco]

Was it explicitly shown Nunnally ever was within Orange's anti-geass perimeter?

And while Guilford surviving was ridiculous, I don't see why it should matter that much, though. He's a very minor character and right now I don't see him playing much of a role anymore. His biggest role was to be a pawn of Lelouch some episodes ago, after all. Schneizel was a gamer without killing intent but also without compassion so Cornelia's life was decided by a toss of a coin, more or less. I don't know why they are saving all these lifes, though. It's perplexing and doesn't exactly make this a better series.

It would be good for Kallen to win. Would be about the time considering how many times she has lost. It's hard to see Suzaku's importance right now, in any case, when the grand battle is practically over. He never did much else than fight.

[shinta|hikari]

But we still don't know what his goal is, while Kallen is just misled and needs no further development. I can't believe I am saying this, but I am rooting for Suzaku on this one. I really dislike Kallen as she is right now. All she has ever been is a pawn, and when she thinks she is finally free from it, she ends up fighting for a sham. I don't want her to die though. It would be good to see how she would react when she realizes her mistake.

[Buffalobiian]

I really dislike Kallen as she is right now.

I hear you loud and clear, for the simple reason that it was she who broke the moment between C.C. and Lelouch. :mad:

In general, I didn't mind how this episode came about. Just that with Nunnaly opening her eyes by herself, there is almost no reason to introduce the Jeremiah's Geass Canceler.

I don't think it's about Lelouch not being able to geass Nunnaly, he just didn't want to. If there was one person he doesn't want to (and can) Geass, it would be her. Though her completely resisting the Geass puts her will at least on par with Euphemia, if not higher.

Thing is now, it feels like the climax is over already, so I'm rattling to guess at what they'll show us as the last episode.

edit: As for Diethard, he's just afraid he won't get to write Lelouch's history books.

[Kraco]

While I agree Lelouch probably doesn't want to geass Nunnally, it's not impossible. He has never really considered Nunnally as such to be worth much other than being a helpless little girl he wanted to protect and who every day reminded him of his hatred and the wrongdoings of his enemies. But Nunnally actually doing something more than drinking a cup of tea or at most organizing a tea party never probably visited Lelouch's mind, even after her becoming the governer of Area 11. It's also evident by his line to her now: that the trigger is too dangerous for her to have.

Ryllharu's theory of giving the power to Nunnally is an interesting one, but based on how Lelouch has acted before, only if that power is worth nothing anymore, or somebody else acts in her shadow. But perhaps they will talk now and Lelouch will change his long lasting opinion. Who knows.

[RyougaZell]

I can't believe I am saying this, but I am rooting for Suzaku on this one. I really dislike Kallen as she is right now.

This is the result for showing Kallen kicking CC's ass :D

[Buffalobiian]

This is the result for showing Kallen kicking CC's ass :D

You know what...I think that's absolutely true. Subconsciously anyhow. Also, according to Eclipse's translations, C.C. considers Lelouch a man. You know what that means....

[RyougaZell]

You know what...I think that's absolutely true. Subconsciously anyhow. Also, according to Eclipse's translations, C.C. considers Lelouch a man. You know what that means....

That she's a pedo? Heheh...

[Idealistic]

Duuuuudes..... Schneizal is clearly not under the effects of Geass. He more than likely was given the power to break free from Geass at any time.

[shinta|hikari]

That makes absolutely no sense for several reasons.

1) The episode clearly shows Schneizel's mental framework being rearranged by the geass.
2) Schneizel could have shot Lelouch with his gun instead of saving him from Diethardt, but didn't.
3) There was a red ring around his eyes when his face was shown close up.

But you are probably being sarcastic and joking, so it's fine.

@RZ - I have already explained several threads before why I disliked Kallen as of recent, way before she beat C.C. in this episode, though honestly that did not help my perception of her get any better.

[rockmanj]

Kallen has been kinda...like, just there lately. She gets so easily manipulated into fighting, its sad. I guess they have to have some sort of balance between pilots, but like, yea she's like just a lucky pawn, it seems. Also, I thought Todou was gonna go OMGWTFKAMAKZE instead of ejecting, but I guess its ok he survived. I swear, there weren't enough deaths for my taste.

[RyougaZell]

@RZ - I have already explained several threads before why I disliked Kallen as of recent, way before she beat C.C. in this episode, though honestly that did not help my perception of her get any better.

I know all that shinta

You know me, I just can't miss a chance to bait when CC is the bait :D


PS: She IS a pedo:cool:

EDIT:
uhh... I can't believe you neg repped me. You know I am just joking... why would I consider CC my second fav female of this show then?

[Board of Command]

It's entirely possible to use a pre-recorded video of yourself in a conversation with someone.

In fact, that is the absolutely best strategy one can come up with in dire times when the fate of the world rests on this conversation.

[shinta|hikari]

I couldn't help it Ryouga.

You know me, I just can't miss a chance to take the bait when CC is the bait :D


PS: She is NOT a pedo :cool:

EDIT:
Positive reps should give more points than a neg rep from the same person. We should be more than even ;)

[TheBladeChild]

Alright people, neg/pos rep aside. Anyone have predictions?

[masamuneehs]

i liked some things about this episode. and some things i hated:

Liked - CC's character finally crossing over to the 'I'm your love puppet, even if I still won't say so' realm of female character. It was written all over her from the beginning, but I'm glad they didn't just leave her in limbo.

Hated - Guilford and Cornelia surviving. They won't kill off minor characters (except for you Diethard, you the man!) We've had a Chinese guy wretching up blood for years, Todoh ejecting, Guillford escaping, Cornelia escaping, Ohgi shielded. The pain-staking lengths being taken to keep people alive is sickening. This is a show about manipulation and war as a premise, but the underlying theme is the sickeningly sweet: "Everything is happy if you believe in love!". It's like a crappy love valentine delivered via guitar-playing velociraptors piloting F-16s through a burning ring of naked lesbians. It's crap, but it's dressed up nicely.

Liked - Diethard. Sure, makes no sense that he suddenly now decides to put his foot down and say "Nah, your awesome manipulation and schemes are boring!" But was that not the best part of the episode?

Hated - Gino. Dude, who the fuck is this guy, why is he in this show, and why are we wasting valuable seconds of the final few episodes with a guy who nobody gives two shits about? Because Kallen needs to end up with somebody?

Liked - Lance of Longinus - Unoriginal as hell, but still uber cool.

Hated - Nina > atomic reactions. This is the girl that pleasured herself with a table. She couldn't even build a dildo. Now she's taking down nukes like it's not a thing.

Liked - um... pretty graphics?

Hated - Nunners opening her eyes because her desire to 'stop' her brother is stronger than the force that manipulated tens of thousands of people and built the Stairway to Heaven. Poppycock.

Prediction:
Suzaku and Kallen fight. Gino saves Kallen and dies, looking cool. Lelouch and Nunners have a nice long talk and, because he really does love her, he gets her to side with him. Because that's what this show is about: love.

Lelouch is declared KIA. He, Nunners and Suzaku go off to live happily ever after. Maybe CC comes too. Can't see where Kallen fits into this. A Geassed Schneizel turns over a new leaf (because he has to), Cornelia doesn't hate him or blow his cover, Kanon acts as a nurse maid, and Schneizel (who ironically has been Geassed into Euphemia) disarms FLEIA and sets up a nice peaceful world.

Everyone gets happy endings. Even if they're rat bastards. Except for Jeremiah. He dies. Or at least, you know, you'd think he'd HAVE to die, seeing that his Geass Canceller could be the one thing to change Schneizel back. But I'm guessing he shows up as head of security for Lelouch/Nunners secret incestual hideaway. Oh, and CC's real name is 'Mother'.

also: this has caused me to seek a doctor first thing tomorrow morning
Schneizel Hat Babies Fan Fiction (http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/09/22/a-you-are-wonderful/)

[RyougaZell]

shinta:
Well... how old is CC? 300? how old is Lelouch? 17?

TBC:
Dunno how Lelouch will handle Nunnally, but he is definitely going to die. I think he and Suzaku will blow up Damocles with them still inside.

Lelouch will order Schneizel to tell the truth so the world handles him, or he dies inside Damocles as well and Cornelia reveals the plan.

Lelouch will tell Kallen, who defeated Suzaku but did not kill him upon learning the truth, to tell Nunnally away from Damocles. He tries to tell her something else, but she refuses to hear it now.

Nunnally and Cornelia disband Britannia once and for all. Guilford is blind. Few learn of Lelouch's true intentions and keep it a secret, but reveal Schneizel's real plan. CC... dies? Dunno... she wants to die or be happy... but since my prediction is Lelouch's death... then what does she do? Give him her code? no... go search another one to give geass... maybe... seal herself away once more... probably... suicide...? she can't. CC is the only one I really can't predict what will happen to her... if she lives... her cycle begans again... alone and inmortal...

Gino dies. Ougi becomes a father, only to be killed by his son in the future. Tamaki becomes a pimp. Xingke coughs, lets go of the controls and crashdies. Kaguya follows Nina's footsteps and gets a table to think of Zero. Tianzi beds Xingke's corpse. Kanon asks to be buried with Diethard since he was cheating on Schneizel. <--- crack predictions

[Kraco]

C.C. is a character only second to Lelouch himself, and moreover her fate has been tied to Lelouch's for the duration of the whole show, so I deem any prediction involving Lelouch but not C.C. has a fundamental flaw. It would be quite an unstylish ending. Well, it's not like an unstylish ending couldn't happen but I certainly don't hope for one.

The only way I can immediately see Lelouch dying now and C.C. trudging on is if she becomes some sort of a story teller (she did the narration already, alright) and a kind of character who will "make sure the mistakes of the past aren't repeated". But I can't really see Lelouch dying now suddenly and C.C. left standing on nothing, as if the script writers would have forgotten such a character existed.

[shinta|hikari]

We still don't know C.C.'s name, so I predict Lelouch is going to say it out loud once and for all during a dramatic ending scene involving the two of them.

C.C. told Lelouch to come back and make her smile, which means that while the plan is almost suicidal, it is not meant to be.

What I am hoping for is that everyone in the show that has been spoiled by their lack of knowledge and inherent naivety (Nunnally, Kallen) be made to carry the burden of knowing what they have done (or tried to do) and its consequences instead of them happily thinking that they did the right thing.

I don't want the ending to be another WTF twist. Let it be simple, with Lelouch and C.C. fading into obscurity and living out the rest of his life somewhere peaceful, and Nunnally lives (this part is necessary for Lelouch to have any form of peace of mind) a life believing that her brother died partially because of her stupidity, but for the right reasons. Suzaku and Kallen can die together for all I care. The rest of the world resets, and wars and conflict begin again, but to a lesser extent than before. I hope that at this point, the creators realize that the most surprising way to end Code Geass would be to end it in a simple straightforward non-surprising manner.

@RZ - Age gap does not determine if one is a pedo or not. Lelouch, while significantly younger than C.C., is not a child, so no, she is NOT a pedo.

I wonder if it is possible that they give this show an open ending, and never reveal C.C.'s name, then maybe they will release a series of OAVs that tell C.C.'s past or future outside of the main series where her name will be revealed.

[RyougaZell]

Nah... they have to give her name on this episode. Final turn. Taniguchi already stated this is the end. Not an end of season, not a to be continued, but a 'the end'.

I still think Lelouch dies... he will definitely call for CC, who will try to give him her code, but instead gives it to Nunnally... so the bitch can think forever about she has done, and then they both die.

On a serious note...

Lelouch and Suzaku had made the WHOLE world their enemy for their requiem... and I still believe it involves uniting the world against them and then dieing... CC is not a public figure, only those near (OBK and Royal Family) know of her... so the plan can't involver her dieing with them... but she is still immortal... that is something I can't predict how it will end.

PS: Lelouch is a child besides CC :D

[Ryllharu]

Hated - Nina > atomic reactions. This is the girl that pleasured herself with a table. She couldn't even build a dildo. Now she's taking down nukes like it's not a thing.
While it's true that about how much bullshit it is that it took her half a year working with Lloyd to develop the FREIJA, it somehow also took her only hours with Lloyd to develop a countermeasure. One could rationalize this by saying she fully understood all the forces involved when she invented the damn things in the first place, and she had been doing all kinds of research since she destroyed half of Tokyo. Either way, the anti-freija was totally half assed and required Lelouch's UBER GENIUS and Spinzaku's KIRA REFLEXES to pull it off.

I'd say that Nina is the queen of improvisation. She improvised the Nuclear Knightmare, improvised multiple portions of the FREIJA, and she improvised the use of a table to please herself.

In the end, I have to hand it to her in getting over her hatred of Zero enough to realize he was doing the better thing, and she should side with him rather than killing him in a fit of wrathful lesbian venagence. I think it ultimately makes Nina one of the most mature characters in the entire series, next to the serious side of Milly. It might have taken her this entire season to act her age, but she's well beyond everyone else in the series, even C.C. (since C.C. obviously still doesn't understand LOVE and covers it up with snide remarks).

[RyougaZell]

Damn Ryl... your words once again make me think over a character... and you are right... Nina did mature a lot through the series... guess that is a reason why she is still alive...

[Buffalobiian]

[Nipponsei] Code Geass R2 Original Soundtrack 2.zip (http://tracker.minglong.org/torrents/%5BNipponsei%5D%20Code%20Geass%20R2%20Original%20S oundtrack%202.zip.torrent)

[Buffalobiian]

Blindness is merely a test. The burning desire to save the world will cure you.

[Buffalobiian]

Lelouch should just go ahead and use his Geass on the bitch. If it worked on God then why won't it work here? Unless you're telling me Nunally's will surpasses that of god.

Actually, after a bit of thought, yes. God was merely the term for the collection of human consciousness. Because it had the mind(s) of a human, they could be subject to the power of Geass. Nunnaly overcame her Geass when her will to stop Lelouch exceeded that of Charles Geass (timestamp- 15:06). The will of one mind can definitely outdo one of the masses.

[NeoBear]

kinda random and im sure this wont happen but what need does he even have for Geass just walk up to her

"gimme the damn switch bitch im your older brother shut the hell up"

i mean we all know it wont play out like that i just find it funny how we all figure it will hinge on Geass or a long drawn out talk when a simple bitch slap could work just as well =/

[Buffalobiian]

kinda random and im sure this wont happen but what need does he even have for Geass just walk up to her

"gimme the damn switch bitch im your older brother shut the hell up"

i mean we all know it wont play out like that i just find it funny how we all figure it will hinge on Geass or a long drawn out talk when a simple bitch slap could work just as well =/

That's simply against everything he's been working for until Rolo died. I guess that guy succeeded in becoming his brother of sorts after all.

[NeoBear]

well that came out wrong mostly because im sick of Nunully but i mean all he needs to do is walk up to her declare that he has won witch he has and say its over give me the switch and if you dont ill force you which as you stated Buff is that last person he would want to force to do anything and when i say force i mean Geass and or just simply yanking it out of her hands.

after the awsome Macross ending i just saw I know we still have one more mech battle that should be the second coming. but during that are we just going to have a dialogue between him and his sister? who is left to step out of the shadows and put a bullet in either of there backs?

[Buffalobiian]

who is left to step out of the shadows and put a bullet in either of there backs?

V.V. had a decoy ship.

[xtallography]

who is left to step out of the shadows and put a bullet in either of there backs?


I'm still holding out for the zombie Euphie attack.

[David75]

NightSpeed is out:
[Nightspeed] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 - 25 [H 264 1280x720 AAC][7CA00216][Final] mkv 350 Mb @ Mininova (http://www.mininova.org/get/1855648)

gg will be out in a while here:
http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/

[oyabun]

AWESOME! thanks david! I already watched the raw(horrible raws) I know they are horibble but they win!

[David75]

gg
[gg] Code Geass R2 - 25 [89519330] mkv 340Mb @ ggkthx (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/[gg]_Code_Geass_R2_-_25_[89519330].mkv.torrent)

[RyougaZell]

Oh boy.... Shinta is going to be pissed since CC's name was not revealed... ever.


Overall I am very pleased with the ending. Just as expected, Lelouch made the world hate him so they could unite and the he would die. Never expected the Zero usage by Suzaku... at least it seems all the upper Black Knights learnt the truth in the end. Don't care about most of them, but at least I see Kallen finally understood what happened and did not end up hating him.

I wanted to know about Anya's memories though, and how come she ended up living with Jeremiah.

So Nunnally leads what is left of Britannia?

Glad to see no more than a photo of Gino in the ending, but hated he being near Kallen there.

So overall... importants deaths all over the series were Clovis, Euphemia, Charles, Marianne, Shirley, Rolo and Lelouch...

Ugh... I don't know what to say... the ending was just... perfect personally.

[darkmetal505]

Eclipse - Code Geass R2 25 (XviD).avi (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2025%20(XviD)%20%5bC89FF179%5d.avi.torrent)
Eclipse - Code Geass R2 25 (1280x720 h264).mkv (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2025%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b1E05978A%5d.mkv.tor rent)

[enkoujin]

A string of hope wanted me to think that the hidden man who was operating the horse carraige to be Lelouch who was transporting CC. But then again, Sayoko was in the prison with Lloyd, Cecile, Rakshata and Nina.

[shinta|hikari]

Lelouch IS the man driving the carriage. Why else would a man with a similar physique and his face so obviously hidden be accompanying a C.C. that then says "Geass is a power that brings loneliness, but this time it is different"? How can he be alive? He got the code from C.C. (also consequently making her mortal) during the 2 month time skip. There is simply no other way it could end, since he promised C.C. that he will let her die with a smile, and smiling she was, something I doubt would be happening if Lelouch died.

I really liked how they did this Spice and Wolf pair feel for the ending.

All in all, an amazing way to end a series that was in danger of falling apart. It was good to the point that I actually forgot that they never revealed C.C.'s real name. I am not pissed though, since in retrospect, one of C.C.'s greatest aspects is her mystery, and a lot of her appeal might be lost if all her secrets are disclosed.

That orange farming thing with Orange-kun and Anya cracked me up.

@ all the LelouchxKallen fans - LelouchxC.C. fans triumph at last.

[RyougaZell]

@ all the LelouchxKallen fans - LelouchxC.C. fans triumph at last.

With no real proof of that man being Lelouch this is just false.

But so you can keep dreaming, a gif:
http://cdimg2.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/09282008/e/a/0/2/ea0255f3f37670_full.gif


Besides... I think Nunnally would have noticed. And they would not have allowed the body to be taken away by CC either. So... thats just something you wanted to happen. But whatever, anyone can interpret the ending however they want. Lelouch didn't end up with anybody, he simply died.

[Kraco]

A fine last episode. I'm happy they concluded so well, rather simply, the whole deal of uniting the world through hate. It's a dodgy concept to begin with, but I guess Kallen's line nearing the end, that the efforts were being redirected from war to contructing better lives was a major point of the whole brutal plan. Like a very harsh lesson indeed.

But what is most important to me, of course, is that a happy C.C. was the last person on screen. All the jazz aside, the main point of this whole series, from the beginning of the first ep of season one to this last episode of season 2 was to make C.C. happy!

[shinta|hikari]

I am actually very surprised that there are people that failed to pick up on the subtle but satisfying ending for this show. So many things in the final scene just won't make sense if Lelouch really died, not to mention it would mean that Lelouch never fulfilled his pact with C.C., which is the starting point of the show.

EDIT:

@Kraco - I can't agree more with your 2nd paragraph.

[NeoBear]

so what do we do now what else is worth a damn that was awsome crist this has been one of the best seasons for anime ever and if you are a gamer you are about to get kicked in the sack with game after game truly 2008 was touched by jesus on the forhead ... im going back to sleep

also i cried bitch tears when he died ... im so pathetic

[narutosharingan]

I really enjoyed the ending. It wouldn't make sense to have Lelouch die like that. I'm not necessarily sure Karen knew Lelouch planned it, but thought it would be like him.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Lelouch IS the man driving the carriage. Why else would a man with a similar physique and his face so obviously hidden be accompanying a C.C. that then says "Geass is a power that brings loneliness, but this time it is different"?

Because in the end, Lelouch used the Geass to change things for the better, to bring people together instead of bringing loneliness to himself. Besides, everyone has that anorexic "physique" on this show. This could be because I've been looking for Lelouch to die since the second season started, I always viewed it as ending up that way, but the partially open ending does give him a chance to survive. I don't know if I'm happy with this ending or not. Maybe it's because I'll really miss this show. Maybe because we never learn C.C.'s name, but like Shinta said it keeps her mystery sealed.

Well it was a fun ride.

[Board of Command]

Just when then series was on its last leg from all those sub-par episodes lately, the ending really redeemed the Code Geass brand. Unlike so many series out there, this ending actually did a fine job of concluding everything important. CC's name wasn't revealed but I don't really mind.

The only disappointing thing about this episode was how Suzaku escaped on his decoy ship in order to advance the plot and ultimately bring Lelouch's plan to fruition. They've used this ploy one too many times recently.

Now, if Lelouch really did survive and turned out to be the carriage guy, then we have a possibility of a third season. Everything is already laid out perfectly for a sequel -- the world deteriorates once again, and Lelouch must come out of hiding to fix his "mistakes." Once again, he has to keep a low profile because he's supposed to be a dead man. All the other important characters are still alive.

[shinta|hikari]

C.C. never gave a damn about the world. As selfish as it is, she only cared about her own happiness, so when she mentions anything about a break from loneliness, it will pertain particularly about her own situation, and we all know she cared only for Lelouch in the end.

Everything about the final scene points to him surviving:

1) There is some carriage driver that for some unknown reason has his face hidden (while practically any other unnamed character in the show has a face drawn in {masked soldiers don't count since it is their uniform}) accompanying C.C. Why was it even necessary to show the driver? Why was it necessary to mask him?
2) C.C. final line about geass not bringing loneliness this time.
3) C.C. is smiling happily, which is not possible if her contract remains unfulfilled.
4) C.C. even calls him by name, and while this can be seen as her addressing his dead wandering soul, the fact that the episode cuts off right after she says it (in code geass style when they reveal something surprising like Nunnally being alive) implies that Lelouch is there with her.

What am I trying to say? It is not an open ending, and while they did not do so blatantly, the creators were definitely saying that Lelouch survived, and the probable (seriously, why not?) scenario of him obtaining the code from C.C. as part of their contract came to pass. I can't seem to find any negatives in a plan which results in C.C. getting her happy demise and Lelouch surviving his "self-sacrifice" plan.

Think about it. If Lelouch really died, that means that C.C. will have to continue living her eternal hell, which means he failed to complete the contract, which means that C.C.'s entire adventure has been for moot, or rather has been simply forgotten by the creators when they drew up the storyboard. Can anyone actually call that a good ending? I can't.

EDIT: I personally don't want a third season. This ending is most fitting, and anything more would just increase the chances of ruining it.

[Kraco]

There's absoletely no need for a third season with the story perfectly concluded. I don't know how deeply Sunrise is regularly distrusted, but I give them enough respect to think they know better than to drag an honourably buried horse from its grave.

And to add to shinta's theory I'd also add that Lelouch never really struck me as a person who would choose to die if he could avoid it. Though he's a narcist and loves himself more than anything else, I don't still think he would go down the way of dying as a martyr, because not actually doing it yet appearing to all the world as if he did would be just a Lelouch kind of a master plan.

The only thing that speaks for the unhappy ending is the fact that what would Lelouch be doing afterwards? Driving a haycart for living hardly seems like a job he would do for great many years. And if you aren't happy yourself, how can you make anybody else happy, especially one as close as C.C. No matter how low he tried to hide himself, a man like Lelouch who only dreams big dreams would be ruling all the hay market of the world in two years... And that would be the end of his hiding.

[Ryllharu]

The ambiguity is in how CC looks when she says "Right, Lelouch?"

She moves her eyes to a position that would be looking above her head. The question is, is CC looking up at the sky referring to Lelouch being dead, or is CC moving her eyes as toward the cart driver as possible, inferring that it is Lelouch. The audience is left to decide.


Orange-kun got his day of glory here though. He was beyond badass taking down Anya. Far more entertaining than the Kallen/Spinzaku showdown.


All in all, the episode (and plot) largely turned out how I expected, Lelouch killing himself after making everyone hate him. It was heavily foreshadowed. The finale certainly didn't disappoint. They pulled it off better than I thought they would. I loved the visuals of Lelouch sliding down the banner, his blood staining it, as if wiping away all the world's evil with him.

[RyougaZell]

Lets just leave all the damn rant aside and talk about the episode itself okay? Its clear we will not find a mutal idea due to attachment to certain characters. (this about if that guy was or wasn't Lulu)

1) What did CC meant when she told Kaguya that she understands Lelouch? (Kaguya, not CC)

2) Did Xingke finally die? He isn't in any photo, but his Knightmare is when Ougi salutes Nunnally

3) Did Toudou recognized the new Zero as Suzaku? As he questioned it and Kallen just shouted that it 'was' Zero, as she understood the real purpose of the Zero Requiem

4) How come Nunnally had a flashback? Does this point out that Lelouch really did have a code and was affecting her?

5) Anybody noticed Schneizel ended being a zombie? His eyes still are geassed when he arrives alongisde Nunnally.

6) Kallen moved in with her mother and returned to Ashford. Good for me.

7) What did Anya remember so she went to live with Jeremiah? I didn't know he was into lolis... guess he and Xingke could have been good friends.

8) Ougi and Viletta had a double wedding? The photographs show them wearing western wedding clothes and japanese wedding clothes

9) Tamaki opened a bar... lolz.

10) Arthur... all alone in front of Suzaku's 'grave'. Poor cat. Is nobody going to feed him?

11) What happens with all the geassed soldiers? It is quite clear the rest of the royal family died due to Schneizel's FREIJA to pendragon... so the only ones left are Nunnally, Cornelia and Schneizel's zombie... good thing Jeremiah is not evil, or he could ungeass him.

12) Take this point whicever way you want. If Lelouch died and CC still has her code OR if Lelouch survived and now has the code... it means the curse of Geass is still out there. I don't particularly want a third season, unless they manage to create an excellent idea... but this could well create a movie or ova... since Geass is still out there...



Anyway....
Im going to buy this:
http://lolipuni.com/list/img/0809/080925f15.jpg

Shinta, you SHOULD buy this. No scratch that... if you do not buy it I will be very dissapointed in you:
http://lolipuni.com/list/img/0809/080925f13.jpg

[David75]

I loved the visuals of Lelouch sliding down the banner, his blood staining it, as if wiping away all the world's evil with him.

It was a metaphor, having Lelouch bearing all of the world's evil doings like Jesus.
It's a faint holy cross, but to me the symbol is there on purpose...

[Ryllharu]

It was a metaphor, having Lelouch bearing all of the world's evil doings like Jesus.
It's a faint holy cross, but to me the symbol is there on purpose...
I was trying to avoid the Jesus reference, having seen it a lot recently in film, television, and especially anime. That's why I worded it carefully and deleted the word 'sins' in my initial edit.

[Board of Command]

There's absoletely no need for a third season with the story perfectly concluded. I don't know how deeply Sunrise is regularly distrusted, but I give them enough respect to think they know better than to drag an honourably buried horse from its grave.

I agree, there's no need to do a third season. However, they finished this episode with all the stars aligned should they decide to go ahead and do another season because they figure it's a good cash grab. In a sense, the story is concluded, but... not really.

[MFauli]

One of the few anime-series with a satifsfying ending, great.

My favorite scene was when Jeremia owned Anya, pure awsomeness. First he has a little robot inside his big one, then he jumps by his very self towards Anya.

After 3/4 i hated Suzaku the most, my hate-award goes to Nunally in the end. It&#180;s just ridiculous how she went against her brother, who did everything for her, and who she also loved for her whole life. Then it only takes a little talk with Schneizel and she&#180;s ready to kill her brother. Sigh


Great ending, and i hope there wont be a 3rd season

[animus]

LOL. So the reason they kept Cornelia alive was so that she would run out and tell everyone the obvious (that Lelouch is dead) and to free the hostages. Man, that was stupid.

[Kraco]

It´s just ridiculous how she went against her brother, who did everything for her, and who she also loved for her whole life. Then it only takes a little talk with Schneizel and she´s ready to kill her brother.

That might be exactly why. She loved her borther but didn't really know anything at all about him, nothing real anyway, just that he loved her as well. It could be she thought herself the best person to stop him, and after that she probably planned to die, herself, all along. Like Aizen said: Admiration is the furthest thing from understanding. Since she understood nothing but only admired her old, however faulty, image of Lelouch, it should have been very easy to manipulate her into believing Lelouch had erred from a proper path and only she would be able to stop him.

[TheBladeChild]

A Beautifully executed ending IMO, nothing surprising but still very good. From the way this series ended, I dont want to have a 3rd season, though if they came up with a good idea, I wouldnt be opposed to a movie.

[Idealistic]

The ending was ok.... I was hoping everyone would get more screen time at the end. I wonder what CC is doing now.... Damn it we do need an OVA or something.

And damn... No CC x Lelouch or Kallen x Lelouch. Not even Kallen x ANYONE!

edit: nvm... the wedding picture comfirms.. Gino is gettin it from Kallen.

[oyabun]

I'm so satisfied with how the ending went that I forgot about CC's name. Oh well as long as she's smiling in the end.

[Ryllharu]

The thing that rankled with me more was how Cecile was about to tell Nina why Raksharta calls Lloyd "Pudding Earl," and they never told us. At least the hint of Lelouch knowing C.C.'s real name was from last season, not ten minutes from the end of the series.

We can only hope it comes out as a Picture Drama.

[aznroyale]

Anyone know the song before the ending?

[enkoujin]

All speculation:


1) What did CC meant when she told Kaguya that she understands Lelouch? (Kaguya, not CC)

More abstract haziness into what CC said. CC probably meant that Kaguya, who loved Zero, knew nothing about him farther than beneath a mask, until recently (when Lelouch started strutting around with his dictatorial powers). Therefore, she could not comprehend what Lelouch's true nature and intentions (cliche tragic anti-hero).

CC (11:25): You're a kind person.

can be interpreted as "gentle". I think this implies how fragile and ignorant Kaguya is.


2) Did Xingke finally die? He isn't in any photo, but his Knightmare is when Ougi salutes Nunnally

Probably not yet. He's also shown alive as a hostage at 13:20.


3) Did Toudou recognized the new Zero as Suzaku? As he questioned it and Kallen just shouted that it 'was' Zero, as she understood the real purpose of the Zero Requiem

Yes, he did.


4) How come Nunnally had a flashback? Does this point out that Lelouch really did have a code and was affecting her?

Assuming that Lelouch inherited CC's Code, then yes, he became a "warlock/witch" like CC. There is no logical explanation, and an event to prove this was when Suzaku touched CC in season 1, which provoked the suppressed memories of Suzaku killing his father before Euphemia's massacre. This argument would be completely be voided if you don't believe Lelouch is the horse-carriage guy.


7) What did Anya remember so she went to live with Jeremiah?

Jeremiah was probably brought to court for supporting Lelouch, ending up with a demotion, or simply fled to become an orange picker. Seeing as the countries had shifted their hate for each other, abandoned war and worked on diplomacy, which destroyed almost all incentive to have pilots.


11) What happens with all the geassed soldiers?

Lelouch probably outlined a plan for the aftermath of the Zero Requiem for Jeremiah, but it's all speculation.

Plus, I think Rivalz got matched up with Meeya (Mai Hunni).

[RyougaZell]

The ending was ok.... I was hoping everyone would get more screen time at the end. I wonder what CC is doing now.... Damn it we do need an OVA or something.

And damn... No CC x Lelouch or Kallen x Lelouch. Not even Kallen x ANYONE!

edit: nvm... the wedding picture comfirms.. Gino is gettin it from Kallen.

Not quite. Kallen is keeping to herself while Gino is trying to cling to her. I can picture Kallen slapping him afterwards.

[masamuneehs]

watched the RAW, really enjoyed it.

Was really distressed at the beginning of the episode when Gino was fiddling with his disabled Knightmare, taking it as a set up for him heroically saving Kallen with his disabled mech at the cost of his life. Thankfully, he stayed away.

Really liked the scene with Toudoh and his gal, and the prison conversation, incomplete as it is.

I love it when the climactic mech battle sets aside all the cool fantastic gizmos and just becomes a fierce melee. That's the stuff. But Suzaku was so clearly alive since he didn't even have a shot of him in the cockpit seeing 'the light', let alone the standard 'important character dying monologue'

I started getting very giddy when Lelouch used Geass on Nunnally to get the Key. That right there comforted me into the idea that the show wasn't going to go down the 'happy trails and a lesson learned' path.

I was really pretty touched.

Lelouch alive? Dead? They left it too open ended to tell either which way. You can make arguments, but I say just believe what you want. Whatever will help you sleep at night. I noticed the cart driver thing focus too, especially the hidden face, and it could make sense that Lelouch got CC's code. It would certainly explain why she's so happy at the end. Also, a person with the Code dies when they get shot/stabbed, but they come back to life, or something like that...

Also, what's with Lelouch getting all sad and wistful with his little "dying moment" if he knew he'd pop back up after a little while?

IF Lelouch is alive, you have to wonder if he ever told Suzaku that he'd stay alive? or did he trick him into joining his side with a Zero Requiem including "you can kill me"? his sad little whispers to Suzaku, if the guy on the cart is Lulu, would make me think he did lie to Suzaku.

[Yukimura]

While I think the ending was very solid, I'm kind of disappointed. Because it was so solid it doesn't really stand out to me among other endings. I feel I'm much more likely to forget all about Code Geass now than if there was some completely absurd ending like Zombie Clovis pulling off the Zero mask and doing a head thrown back cackle and Lelouch dying with a "WTF?" look on his face while Nunners cried.

All in all I definately think the ending was a good one for a series that seemed to be meandering a lot near the end. But other than the interest I have in certain green-haired, or citrus-fruit-picking, or fabulous-megalomaniac characters I don't think I'm going to be carrying much from this franchise in my head or heart by the end of next season. :(

In other news I also believe that the cart driver was Lelouch (though it didn't cross my mind on the first watch). I don't think you purposefully make the last scene of a series throw such a strong hint without actually meaning it. An alternative explanation that someone came up with could be that Lelouch somehow picked up Charles' Code just before he went all sparkles. I'd be happier with Lulu and C.C. living together forever than with him immortal and her doomed to die at some point, leaving him all alone. Either way I'm hoping for an R3 with Lulu and C.C.'s fabulously brilliant love-child taking up the Zero mask and going up against some corrupt European who didn't get the Hate Lelouch Not Us memo.


I don't know how deeply Sunrise is regularly distrusted, but I give them enough respect to think they know better than to drag an honourably buried horse from its grave.

Lol, you must not know Sunrise. Bringing characters back from blatant and even poignant deaths is one of the things they're most famous for. Our dear friend Mwu La Flagaa? He had an AWESOME death scene where you actually see him get disintegrated and then poof he's back in the sequel with nothing but a scar on his face. Hell, they killed off like 95% of the cast of Mai-HiME in moving scenes of love or affection over the course of the show only to bring them all back in the final episode.

[shinta|hikari]

I would think that Lelouch lied to everyone except for C.C. Only Suzaku knew of the possibility of immortality excluding the two of them, and he knew none of the details. His tears as he killed his former best friend proved his ignorance of even the possibility of Lelouch coming back to life.

About Lelouch being wistful in his death scene, it is probably for believability (in-show characters) and audience (us) suspense.

I was also perplexed as to how Nunnally was able to mysteriously have a flashback of Lelouch's past and motive when she touched him. This would make absolutely no sense unless Lelouch did have the code in him. Take note that this happened before in the show, like when Lelouch touched C.C. for the first time and as mentioned before when Suzaku got mind raped. I really wanted Nunnally to live with her sins and the consequences of her naivety, and this just confirms that.

While she was a very stupid girl, Nunnally with the violet eyes was really cute, especially when she was geassed and politely gave the key to her Onii-sama.

EDIT:

@Yuki - You don't even have to look at other series. Code Geass itself is like a resurrection frenzy. A sequel would be nice if it is set like 10 years after, and does not feature the main characters of the first two shows. A few appearances would be great just to show how they are doing, but a whole new story would be better.

@RZ - If only I could afford it... But reality is harsh.

[kAi]

This was a good way to end the series, I believe Lelouch is alive in that last scene with C.C. Lelouch's death scene was great and I thought that it was done well.

It was good to see Orange-kun doing what he was meant to do, heh.

[DDBen]

Lelouch alive? Dead? They left it too open ended to tell either which way. You can make arguments, but I say just believe what you want. Whatever will help you sleep at night. I noticed the cart driver thing focus too, especially the hidden face, and it could make sense that Lelouch got CC's code. It would certainly explain why she's so happy at the end. Also, a person with the Code dies when they get shot/stabbed, but they come back to life, or something like that...

Also, what's with Lelouch getting all sad and wistful with his little "dying moment" if he knew he'd pop back up after a little while?

IF Lelouch is alive, you have to wonder if he ever told Suzaku that he'd stay alive? or did he trick him into joining his side with a Zero Requiem including "you can kill me"? his sad little whispers to Suzaku, if the guy on the cart is Lulu, would make me think he did lie to Suzaku.

Well there are some factors here we can't be 100% sure of. Note C.C. appears in the church where she got the code in the first place from the nun while the Zero Requiem is being carried out. Also Lelouch even if he knew he wouldn't kill him was acting to convince others even if his life didn't end he would never be able to see his friends again either way. That was his goodbye to all those he cared about while leaving them the gift of a better world.

I am in the camp that believes that Lelouch was driving the cart with C.C. in the end as there are way to many hints pointing at it for them to all be meaningless.

[Idealistic]

The OVA should just be about their everyday lives after these events... No war no nothing.. Just a drama.

:D

Oh wait... There's no more freaking Shirley though!! Can't have Ashford Academy without Shirley! Scratch that.

[Buffalobiian]

All my thoughts are already said one way or the other.

I think Lelouch is alive, though I didn't think that initially, I think the arguments are quite strong.

Secondly, the part about Nunnaly seeing the truth....was that really the Immortal flashback? I initially thought it was just Nunnaly's Truth Sense, since she says she can tell the truth from touching someone's hands. In fact that's exactly what she had in mind. She saw Lelouch die, asked in a standard, but distant manner "Onii-sama?", like "Are you dead yet, brother?", saw the smile, thought something's not right, and used the Truth Sense.

For me, both that and the Immortal Flashback work enough as an explanation, though the latter would be point more strongly at Lelouch's survival.

Now but as a counter, if C.C, knew the truth, why was she crying when it was all happening? Her confident self wouldn't allow such a thing, and she should be smiling smugly at Lelouch's plan, like she did in the ending.

I really liked this ending, and I hope it really IS the ending, though I won't mind supplement material. The death scene was emotional, but not as emotional as I was hoping. Maybe I was tired after work, so I'll rewatch it when I get some rest again.

[shinta|hikari]

Secondly, the part about Nunnaly seeing the truth....was that really the Immortal flashback? I initially thought it was just Nunnaly's Truth Sense, since she says she can tell the truth from touching someone's hands. In fact that's exactly what she had in mind. She saw Lelouch die, asked in a standard, but distant manner "Onii-sama?", like "Are you dead yet, brother?", saw the smile, thought something's not right, and used the Truth Sense.

The problem with the lie detecting ability that Nunnally has is that it can only tell her if what the person is saying is true or not, no details included. The flashback that she got included scenes that only Lelouch, Suzaku, and C.C. are aware of. It is possible that those are just used for symbolism, and that she simply figured everything out by herself much like the others did, but the signs lean more towards it being something supernatural.


Now but as a counter, if C.C, knew the truth, why was she crying when it was all happening? Her confident self wouldn't allow such a thing, and she should be smiling smugly at Lelouch's plan, like she did in the ending.

There can be a number of reasons, with no way to confirm which is correct. My personal guess would be that she feels sad for Lelouch having to make himself immortal and suffer a fate similar to what she has suffered. She may also feel pity for Lelouch who sacrificed almost everything for what he believed to be a better world. Still, the most logical guess would probably be that the creators put that scene in to bait the viewers into thinking that Lelouch really died (if C.C. didn't cry, I'm sure everyone would expect Lelouch's comeback) only to put in the final scene and have the scales tip in the other direction.

[Buffalobiian]

Okay, this I really don't understand, taken from randomc:


If you’ve been paying attention in the series and didn’t get lost in all of the complexities and plot twists (which even I acknowledge was a little overboard in R2), then you can build a case about Lelouch still being alive based on the Code he might have received. C.C. thus might have been talking directly with Lelouch at the end there instead of her talking with the dead or whatever. Taking that one step further, you could say that Lelouch would now be R.R., aka. R2, the title of the series.

Where did that come from? It would be awesome if it was true, but I can't quite see where R.R. came from.

Edit: okay, some say R.R.=L.L. = Lelouch Lamperouge.

But still, doesn't tell me much. It's not like we knew why C.C. or V.V. were called so.

Edit2: Found this rather interesting, so I'm copying it in its entirety:


The most obvious reason would be CC calling to Lelouch in the closing scene of the episode. As we can assume CC to be still sane, she must be talking to someone, and that someone would most probably be the driver of the cart: Lelouch would have to be alive.

Second, however, and this is where the others have thought things through, Lelouch is alive because he got his dad’s code. He beckoned the World of C to lend him its powers, and he took Charles’s code before Charles passed on. The reason why Lelouch still has his Geass is because he didn’t take the Code from the same person who gave him his Geass: he took his Geass from CC, and he took his Code from Charles. Thus, he now possesses both immortality and a Geass. This is also a reason that the title is Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.

To further corroborate this, however, remember that when Nunnally held Lelouch’s hand he transferred his memories to her. CC also did it when Lelouch touched her accidentally back then, so it could be assumed that people with Codes are indeliberate telepaths. This leaves us with both immortals traversing the world for the rest of eternity.

It’s a great end, friends. :)

P.S. Ending line of CC translated by bibi: “Geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you… well, I guess thats a little wrong… eh, Lelouch”

P.P.S. Additional evidence, courtesy of `Nergal and 4chan:

1. Charles grabbed Lelouch with his right hand, which had the Geass sigil.
2. Lelouch needed the fully evolved Geass to transfer a code.
3. The code doesn’t appear to activate until someone dies. Hence, why C.C. was wounded when she first inherited her code. Same happened with Charles in the World of C.
4. When Lelouch touched Nunnally, Nunnally got a flash of his memories. This ONLY happens when a high potential Geass user touches someone with the fully evolved Geass.
5. The title of the series is “R2″, which is similar to how “C.C” is pronounced. So Lelouch would be “R.R.” which is Engrish (I presume) for L.L., Lelouch Lamprouge.
6. When C.C. is talking on the wagon, she says “the power of Geass brings loneliness…that’s not quite right is it, Lelouch?” and nods her head in the direction of the wagon driver.

P.P.P.S More evidence, courtesy of an intelligent anon from 4chan:

Orange knew of Lelouche’s and Suzaku’s plan and helped them out by ordering his men not to fire on Zero, he even smiled when Zerozaku jumped on his shoulder.

Now would Orange, a man who devoted himself entirely to Lelouche and threw away everything without a second thought be OK with a plan where the sole person he wants to protect in life is actually killed? The answer to that is NO, not even if Lelouche ordered him to accept the plan: he would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and thats if he knew about Lelouche’s immortality, which I assume he did as he worked with V.V. in the Geass research base. Orange was OK with this plan as he knew Lelouche would come to no harm and would be able to start a new peaceful life with the woman he loves in a world which he himself had made peaceful.

Even at the end, we see Orange on his orange plantation, completely content with the way things have panned out, he definitely could not be that happy had Lelouche actually died.

There it is, firm evidence of Lelouche’s immortality if the scene with C.C. and the cart driver wasn’t painfully obvious enough.

Original Source (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/09/code-geass-r2-25-so-is-lelouch-dead-or-not/)

C.C's crying is still throwing me off from being 100% certain, but like you guys have said, they made it that way. Simple faith and a positive outlook is good enough for me :D

I found the Code + Geass = Code Geass argument very convincing though, not to mention quite clever.
All Hail Lelouch!

[shinta|hikari]

A lot of people seem to think that Lelouch got the code from the emperor, which does not make sense. He was also never shown to have his geass after the two month time skip in the final episode. They also seem to mistake the current pact between Lelouch and C.C. to be "making her smile", which is incorrect. The promise is actually to make her "die smiling", which would be impossible if she still had her code. If C.C. simply gave Lelouch the code, then it would all make sense.

I really like the Orange idea. It does make sense now that I think about it.

Another thing I got from another forum is that R.R. or R2 (R) is the exact midpoint between C.C. (C) and V.V. (V), as if the sum of the two is Zero. As the person that came up with this said, it may be over analysis, but I personally like the idea.

[Kraco]

The promise is actually to make her "die smiling", which would be impossible if she still had her code. If C.C. simply gave Lelouch the code, then it would all make sense.

She didn't seem to be anymore in any hurry to die, lying on top of the hay load, fortunately.

[Buffalobiian]

A lot of people seem to think that Lelouch got the code from the emperor, which does not make sense. He was also never shown to have his geass after the two month time skip in the final episode. They also seem to mistake the current pact between Lelouch and C.C. to be "making her smile", which is incorrect. The promise is actually to make her "die smiling", which would be impossible if she still had her code. If C.C. simply gave Lelouch the code, then it would all make sense.

I really like the Orange idea. It does make sense now that I think about it.

Another thing I got from another forum is that R.R. or R2 (R) is the exact midpoint between C.C. (C) and V.V. (V), as if the sum of the two is Zero. As the person that came up with this said, it may be over analysis, but I personally like the idea.

Firstly, I don't think there was any point in exposing his Geass after the timeskip. Like he said, Geass is used to accomplish something you can't do with your own power. As the one and only Emperor of Britannia over a crushed world, it doesn't seem like he'd need it.

Secondly, about the pact. I always thought the pact was to simply "kill me". But really, C.C's wish is to be loved, as was evident in her own Geass. It's not a steadfast rule to say "If we don't abide by our contract, I'll go find someone else, or erase your power". She left Mao, but left his powers for him, because he simply couldn't fulfill her wish. Though the pact is unchanged, she simply doesn't want to die yet. Here are other ways to "make her smile" ;). If both parties are happy with the breach in a contract, no one gives a damn.

Also, him having taken Charles' Code will explain why C.C. is crying during Zero Requiem. Lelouch simply didn't tell her he stole Charles' Code. Since C.C.'s crying was the main part of my doubt, this theory works fine for me.

Side note: the Code transfer process was never explained at all. I dare say that it involves direct contact with the owner's Code, though where it manifests on the new owner I can't explain. That would explain Lelouch taking it from Charles' hand, and also why Charles tried to kiss C.C -- He was going for the code on her forehead.

The R.R. being in the middle is an interesting idea. Question is now (and it probably won't be answered), why do they call themselves C.C. and V.V.? R1 hinted that they were probably aliens of some kind, so they chose something humans can pronounce, but now it's really left up to interpretation.

[RyougaZell]

Ugh...
Anyone can have their own version of the ending. But all these theories of how Lelouch survived are bordering on ridiculous.

Shinta:
What? the all mighty CC fan will not get that figure? Tsk tsk. Guess you aren't that fan of her ;)

[animus]

I personally like the R2 theory. But, R2 = R.R. = Rerouch? Lol.

[Buffalobiian]

Ugh...
Anyone can have their own version of the ending. But all these theories of how Lelouch survived are bordering on ridiculous.

What's your version Ryou?

One thing I haven't come across arguments for yet is the paper crane. In fact, that was truly the final thing to be shown before the credits. Did anybody remember what it symbolised?

I vaguely remember Nunnaly making if for Lelouch and Suzaku (don't think C.C. got one) at Ashford R1. Something about making one thousand of these will make your wish come true?

If so, then who's crane is it? (If I take the "Lelouch died" path, it could just simply be C.C. keeping a memento of Lelouch...)

[RyougaZell]

My version is simply that he died. CC crying would have no meaning if he survived. She just appeared happy at the end because she learnt many things from Lelouch, and because she was happy the time they spent together.

Nunnally didn't see those images, they were given to the benefit of us viewers and she just understood what happened.

Anyone could ask Suzaku afterwards, after all, Toudou and Kallen recognized him.


The crane... a memento I think. Or just probably Nunnally's words about wishes. Lelouch did say a geass is like a wish.

[Kraco]

My version is simply that he died. CC crying would have no meaning if he survived. She just appeared happy at the end because she learnt many things from Lelouch, and because she was happy the time they spent together.

The crying scene might be considered to lose some meaning if C.C. knew Lelouch wasn't going to die, but even so C.C. smiling happily after Lelouch's death would make far less sense in any case. Her original wish was to die and she chose Lelouch for that, but she eventually began to enjoy her life with Lelouch and most likely wasn't so eager to die after all, but again dared to dream of becoming happy. So, what manner of sense would it make at all that she would be happy and content if she was taken both of those things: Immortality (death) and Lelouch who was the first person who ever made her happy?

I think you are overrating the significance of memories of an important person. No matter how good memories you have, they won't make up for the person him/herself.

[animus]

One thing I haven't come across arguments for yet is the paper crane. In fact, that was truly the final thing to be shown before the credits. Did anybody remember what it symbolised?

I vaguely remember Nunnaly making if for Lelouch and Suzaku (don't think C.C. got one) at Ashford R1. Something about making one thousand of these will make your wish come true?

If so, then who's crane is it? (If I take the "Lelouch died" path, it could just simply be C.C. keeping a memento of Lelouch...)

For the Japanese if you recall, folding a thousand paper cranes granted you a wish. And in the episode, Lelouch compared the power of Geass to be as simple as a wish. Too lazy to try and concoct a relation between them, but it's probably within those cracks there.

[masamuneehs]

This is a show made in Japan

In Japan R = L

So Lelouch Lamperouge = Rerouch Rampelouge

So, yeah, the R2 = R.R. = Rerouch becomes the new codemaster is a jump I can make. But I still like to think that it really won't matter. A spin-off or sequel would be pretty pathetic, even if they keep it enjoyable.

Paper cranes are made by the Japanese in the belief that they can grant wishes. There's a famous story about a young girl suffering from effects incurred in WWII who said that she would get better if she could make 1000 paper cranes. She died first, but people sent in thousands of paper cranes they'd made themselves. They're on display in her home city. Basically a paper crane is a symbol of a wish.

also, i don't know if i could say that Lelouch LOVES CC. Really, if anything, all he's doing for her now might be more out of some sense of debt. His feelings towards her never even got near the level of love he showed for others (Nunnally throughout, even Suzaku a bit, and Shirley at her death)

Last, on the 'Lelouch got his Code from Charles'. All other cases of codes being passed on involved the Codemaster voluntarily giving their Codes away (Nun to CC, Marianne to Anya, CC's would have been passing on to Lelouch). Chuck was pretty pissed when he was about to go, and I didn't get the sense he wanted to give Lelouch anything... Also, can anyone remember if Charles got VV's code at any point, or what exactly happened? I just remember VV suddenly being mortal and Charles being immortal, but I don't recall which happened first.

[RyougaZell]

Like I said... anyone can have their own version of the ending. If you are happy believing he survived, fine. For me, he died. Keeping him alive makes most of the ending worthless. I simply believe CC learned to enjoy life thanks to him, and that is why she is shown happy, as she knew true happiness. Like someone said... better losing than never knowing.

This my opinion, not a fact.

[Buffalobiian]

Last, on the 'Lelouch got his Code from Charles'. All other cases of codes being passed on involved the Codemaster voluntarily giving their Codes away (Nun to CC, Marianne to Anya, CC's would have been passing on to Lelouch). Chuck was pretty pissed when he was about to go, and I didn't get the sense he wanted to give Lelouch anything... Also, can anyone remember if Charles got VV's code at any point, or what exactly happened? I just remember VV suddenly being mortal and Charles being immortal, but I don't recall which happened first.

I think it works both ways. As long as one's willing to give it, or one's willing to take it, it'll transfer.

When V.V. got blasted out of the Siegfield, he's hurt and cursing Lelouch. Charles came before him, and V.V. said something like "Brother, aren't I glad you came for me."

Charles then confirmed if he was lying, and looked pretty pissed about it. Afterwards, C.C. asked why did Charles take his brother's Code and kill him, and he explains their pact.

Later one, when Charles was taking the Code from C.C., she was rejecting his attempts and looking away. If it requires one to willingly give it, Charles would have tried to convince her rather than hold her.

[animus]

Paper cranes are made by the Japanese in the belief that they can grant wishes. There's a famous story about a young girl suffering from effects incurred in WWII who said that she would get better if she could make 1000 paper cranes. She died first, but people sent in thousands of paper cranes they'd made themselves. They're on display in her home city. Basically a paper crane is a symbol of a wish.



I remember that book in Grade school or junior high, I can't really recall. But it was about a girl had leukemia that she incurred when she was still in her mother's womb during the WW2 bombings. She was told that folding thousand paper cranes would grant her wish, so she spent her everyday in the hospital folding them. But I think in the story, she dies without finishing the cranes. Might not be the best synopsis, since it's a memory from quite a years ago. We might be thinking about the same book, but I just can't remember the name.

[shinta|hikari]

I think that the code can be taken even without consent, but it takes a relatively long time to transfer, like in C.C. and Charles case, not a few seconds like in the scene between Lelouch and his father. I should add that Lelouch did not intend or even know how to obtain the code at that point.

@RZ - on the contrary, killing Lelouch would make half of the story pointless, and render one integral character void of her importance (C.C.). I would also like to ask why letting Lelouch live (rather than him just being dead period) will make most of the ending worthless, so if you could explain in detail I would appreciate it.

@Masa - while it is not full-blown romantic love, I think he was quite romantically interested in her during the last few episodes, particularly the scene that Kallen interrupted. They were simply not in the type of relationship where they openly show their feelings for each other. Both were too tsundere for that (as admitted by their creators in the dvd specials)

@Buff - when I said "die happily" I did not mean for her to die immediately. The idea is for her to die being content or happy, die being the key word. If she is still immortal, this promise is simply unfulfilled. She can live with Lelouch for a while, be happy, then die of old age or something (not that I would like to see her old, so a sequel is not wanted). In short, she needs to die (immortality being her curse), since that has always been a part of her wish. The only thing she changed is her status of death when she decided to take Lelouch's offer instead of being killed by Charles. Why would they even breach the contract? I will go for Occam's razor on this one.

[Buffalobiian]

@Buff - when I said "die happily" I did not mean for her to die immediately. The idea is for her to die being content or happy, die being the key word. If she is still immortal, this promise is simply unfulfilled. She can live with Lelouch for a while, be happy, then die of old age or something (not that I would like to see her old, so a sequel is not wanted). In short, she needs to die (immortality being her curse), since that has always been a part of her wish. The only thing she changed is her status of death when she decided to take Lelouch's offer instead of being killed by Charles. Why would they even breach the contract? I will go for Occam's razor on this one.

But then you have to ask: did anybody know how to transfer the code? For all we know, all you may had had to do is simply will it. But they didn't give us enough info on this to go on..

As for Charles taking a long time, he didn't even begin to take the code from what we saw. If contact is indeed what's needed, then he was getting there, but never did. Not because of time though. Also, C.C. took her own code, which also hints that Charles never got any of it.

btw, what does it mean to take your own code anyway...a simple memory loss?

I can't even begin to understand of C.C. wants to die now or not. mystery and all. I'll leave it as she's happy to be with Lelouch.

Thing is, having taken Charles' Code and not C.C. explains, most convincingly, why C.C. cried during the scene. She had 2+ months to get over how Lelouch will take her code and her curse. I don't think she'd cry so emotionally if she didn't think he'd die.

Why breach the contract? Because it wasn't the thing they desired the most after all perhaps? C.C. desperately wanted to die before. When given the chance, she didn't take it, and even she doesn't know why. After that, we've seen her wish from way back, to be loved. A wish she long gave up, but still desired most. Since then we've heard nothing about her dying anymore, just "make me smile".

But damn you Shinta. I admit that you have swayed me somewhat that C.C. really does want to die :)

[RyougaZell]

@RZ - on the contrary, killing Lelouch would make half of the story pointless, and render one integral character void of her importance (C.C.). I would also like to ask why letting Lelouch live (rather than him just being dead period) will make most of the ending worthless, so if you could explain in detail I would appreciate it.



My arguments:
This is Lelouch's story. Not CC's. Not Nunnally's. Not Kallen's. Not the Black Knight's. Not Suzaku's.

Since day 1 he wanted to unify the world, and as time passed, he noticed the only true way to make it so, was to make himself the enemy of the world, and that his death will be the way for the world to be free.

If he were to be found alive everything will go down. People would distrust Nunnally, the new 'Zero', the Black Knights and everybody who knew the truth at the end, causing a new war, something Lelouch would not be willing to risk just for one person.

Lelouch was even decided to kill Nunnally if it served the purpose of the world. He wouldn't threw everything away for CC when he was willing to sacrifice Nunnally. The fact that he didn't had to sacrifice Nunnally does not mean he will risk the whole world for CC.

His final phrase before being stabed support this. Only those willing to be shoot can shoot. This can also be phrased as... only those willing to die can kill. If he had been unwilling to die, and took a code, then it will only make him into a hypocrite, and not a real hero for those who knew the truth. He aint a Yagami Light that must die because he sucked at the end, but he was someone who willingly gave his life for the greater good.

All this plan, all this new peace, it will all crash down if he survived and was found. No matter how good you hide, you will be found. Specially since all the world knows him by now. If CC couldn't escape, and was captured by Clovis, who says they cant capture him if he had survived?

I am leaving aside my Kallen fanboyism in this. You know CC is also one my favorites. But sacrificing the whole world for her is not a viable option. All this arguments are just given because you WANT it to be that way. And you are free to interpret it. My interpretation is that he died, and that his death gives meaning to the new peace.

We wont agree. You will still believe its him. I still believe its not him. This are just my arguments of why I believe it isnt him and that he died.

He aint a martyr, that is undeniable. But he truly cherised his friends. And he gladly gave his life. This is an aspect of Lelouch we lost after he gained geass and specially after he thought he lost Nunnally. When Rolo gave his life he understood this role, remember he was about to let the OBK kill him.

CC was happy at the end because Lelouch taught her hope. If there is any ova or movie in the future, it will be without him, but I rather there be none.

[Pure2500]

Finished watching it on TV yesterday.
I am very satisfied with the ending.
To me i think Lelouch is dead, ive been expecting him to die since the first series.
Why is the drivers face covered?
simple, because he is not important !! people that has been watching anime for long time should understand they do that kind of stuff often.
Just a reminder, Lelouch is a bad ass, manipulating people and he sure did killed a lot of people right? He is SUPPOSE TO DIE.
For him not to die would be like not killing off Light in Death Note.
Maybe some people are just to obsessed with Lelouch...:rolleyes:


CC was happy at the end because Lelouch taught her hope. If there is any ova or movie in the future, it will be without him, but I rather there be none.

totally agree.

[Yukimura]

The impression I got was V.V. thought he was still immortal, but then got fucked up in his Knightmare and when Charles showed up and did an evil grin then V.V. realized that he wasn't immortal anymore. Charles said something about V.V. lying to him and later when they were in the world of C I got the impression that he was talking about V.V. killing Marianne, but I didn't' fully understand the dynamic of that situation though so maybe it was something else he was lying about. But I don't think the V.V. to Charles Code transfer occurred on screen or that it was done voluntarily.

[shinta|hikari]

@RZ -

All I can say is, that is a stretch.

When people think you are dead (like you seem to), no one will look for you.

Him surviving is not exclusively for his love/affection for C.C.

He did not say that final phrase. That was a flashback from when he and Suzaku (obviously unaware of his plan) were talking.

I was asking why you think the ending would mostly be meaningless if he were alive. You simply answered by trying to prove his death. Him surviving does not take away anything from what he has achieved. Don't force it to be so.


CC was happy at the end because Lelouch taught her hope.

Not to be rude, but this made me laugh.

Still, let us just agree to disagree. The ending isn't absolutely conclusive anyway.

EDIT:

@Buff - I didn't say she wanted to die as soon as she could, but rather that she is tired of immortality. There is a significant difference between the two.

[RyougaZell]

@RZ -

All I can say is, that is a stretch.

When people think you are dead (like you seem to), no one will look for you.

Him surviving is not exclusively for his love/affection for C.C.

He did not say that final phrase. That was a flashback from when he and Suzaku (obviously unaware of his plan) were talking.

I was asking why you think the ending would mostly be meaningless if he were alive. You simply answered by trying to prove his death. Him surviving does not take away anything from what he has achieved. Don't force it to be so.



Not to be rude, but this made me laugh.

Still, let us just agree to disagree. The ending isn't absolutely conclusive anyway.

Shinta... if my arguments is a stretch so are yours, since you are searching for any way for CC to be with Lelouch. I said it. This aint her story.

I gave the argument of why its meaningless because if he were to be found alive, it all will crash down.Everything. The world needed someone to hate, someone to die. If he survived, then the world will not find this closure. Nunnally understood this. Suzaku understood this. Kallen understood this. Heck, I think even Kaguya understood. THis is why Kallen made Toudou shut up and play along with the new Zero.

Sure, you do not look for a dead man. But any dead man can be recognized.


Whatever, lets agree to disagree as you say. But likewise, my argument is a stretch, so is yours. And it shall remain a stretch until Sunrise fucks up making R3 where Lelouch returns.

[Narasho]

There's absoletely no need for a third season with the story perfectly concluded. I don't know how deeply Sunrise is regularly distrusted, but I give them enough respect to think they know better than to drag an honourably buried horse from its grave.


Gundam Seed Destiny... Need I say more?



And to add to shinta's theory I'd also add that Lelouch never really struck me as a person who would choose to die if he could avoid it. Though he's a narcist and loves himself more than anything else, I don't still think he would go down the way of dying as a martyr, because not actually doing it yet appearing to all the world as if he did would be just a Lelouch kind of a master plan.


I agree that Lelouch doesn't seem like someone who would die if he could avoid it, and since he could cause the perception of his death without actually dying, and that would accomplish everything he wanted, he may have been the person driving the cart at the end.

However, I don't agree with your statement about him being a narcist and loving himself more than anything else. He is a very prideful person, that I can agree with. But throughout the entire series he was fighting for his sister. Also, I really think he loved CC and Kalleen more than himself. His sacrifice at the end (whether or not he really died, he still sacrificed himself) proves this.

[Kraco]

Not to be rude, but this made me laugh.

Indeed. It's an honest comment from someone who only saw Kallen and never C.C. for the duration of the show, no doubt.


I gave the argument of why its meaningless because if he were to be found alive, it all will crash down.Everything. The world needed someone to hate, someone to die. If he survived, then the world will not find this closure. Nunnally understood this. Suzaku understood this. Kallen understood this. Heck, I think even Kaguya understood. THis is why Kallen made Toudou shut up and play along with the new Zero.

I don't think the world is that simple a place, let alone international politics. The significance of Lelouch death was already achieved when the Britannian Empire apparently crumbled and it became just one nation among other equals. Lelouch hasn't been in power for a long time, and it would be hard for anybody anymore to try to make the old world come back simply because one man was found lingering somewhere. No doubt he would be hunted like the Israeli are still hunting nazi war criminals but it wouldn't collapse nations (just like finding Hitler alive wouldn't have suddenly changed anything after WWII). And moreover if he did nothing he couldn't even be used in internal politics. It would mean personal/political difficulties for some individual people, like Nunnally, but that's it.

I like these kind of endings in any case. They let people believe whatever they prefer.

[RyougaZell]

Indeed. It's an honest comment from someone who only saw Kallen and never C.C. for the duration of the show, no doubt.





Ant this are the kind of comments of those who only saw CC and not Lelouch.

When did I even use Kallen in my statements of why Lelouch died?

Screw it, im outta of this Code CC, CC of the Rebellion thread.

[Kraco]

Hey, hey, hey! It was about C.C. that time, not about Lelouch. You said C.C. would be happy because somebody taught her about hope. The C.C. I saw became unhappy if she was refused her pizza for a day. And even seriously speaking I don't think someone who has only dreamt of death for so long can be taught anything by leaving her alone with her memories and crushed hopes. If a crying C.C. had been the last thing we saw before the credits and not a smiling C.C. with no worries, I'd agree Lelouch is dead.

[Buffalobiian]

O.S.T #2 Artwork:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2494/largeanimepaperscanscodom0.jpg

[Buffalobiian]

Anyone know the song before the ending?

It's called Continued Story by Hitomi. It can be found in the Second Code Geass R2 OST.

Grab it here from our very own Code Geass Music Release Thread (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?t=16077).

Like the ending, it's up to us to ponder the meaning of "Continued Story" ;)

[Kraco]

Aww... such a nice image. Lelouch is even playing with sleeping C.C.'s hair. Though you can very well imagine that scene happening just prior to Lelouch and Suzaku travelling to Japan and the end of the zero requiem, casting a bit more morbid light on it. Lelouch's expression is that of a man making peace with himself and the world, and Suzaku is looking at the horizon with a serious expression, knowing his longest work is only beginning.

[Buffalobiian]

My brother noticed this one:

"Surviving a FLEIJA will release you of your Geass."

Proof: Guilford.

[Dark Dragon]

Creating an atomic bomb = piece of cake, correctly spelling the name of the ancient goddess you are naming your bomb after = unthinkable

[shinta|hikari]

Guilford was never released from his geass.

"Pretending to be a wagon driver is the best disguise in the world. Even among people that have been keenly watching you for two seasons, half will not recognize you."

[Buffalobiian]

Guilford was never released from his geass.

"Pretending to be a wagon driver is the best disguise in the world. Even among people that have been keenly watching you for two seasons, half will not recognize you."

He should have recognised Lelouch as Cornelia then, and be confused that there were two Cornelias. I guess that Cornelia may have convinced him that she's the real one, and all the stuff about Geass and all to him. But that leaves the effect of Lelouch's command open to interpretation. Recognising him as Cornelia physically only, or in both loyalty and devotion etc? If the latter, then as soon as he ceases to believe Lelouch is the real Cornelia, he's gone against the Geass.

[shinta|hikari]

The command was to take his (Lelouch's) voice and appearance as Cornelia's, not his name or the concept of his identity. All Guilford had to do was not see or hear Lelouch, and the geass would not take effect.

Also, I think he became blind.

[Buffalobiian]

Assuming that, it means he must have not heard or seen Lelouch on TV, or out of that window during the parade.

Moreover, it would have made this rather dangerous:

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/520/grab28168uk9.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grab28168uk9.jpg)

[shinta|hikari]

Oops. I thought that he became blind because of the sunglasses.

Still, if the command only dictates that he sees and hears Lelouch as Cornelia, then as you said, if he knows where/who the real Cornelia is, the geass would not do much even if it activates. The command did not include absolute loyalty, since Guilford already had that for Cornelia. So even if he does see or hear Lelouch in the parade, it would be close to meaningless.

[KrayZ33]

Ugh...
Anyone can have their own version of the ending. But all these theories of how Lelouch survived are bordering on ridiculous.

Maybe Lelouch is inside C.C.'s head like Mariane (or whatever she is called) was

you know, this cyberworld thingy... and C.C. is talking to him like she did with that woman before.


btw the ending reminded me of death note...."Just as planned"

well, but it was a good ending and I think I have to give them credit for that, because I've never thought it could end this smoothly... but if Lelouch is really dead (for some reason I don't want to believe it because of the last scene) it makes me feel bad for C.C.

but on the other hand C.C said "the geass makes people lonely.... it's not quite true, right lelouch?"
that tells me that she was talking to the man driving the cart... and everyone thinks he's dead, thus he's lonely... but he still has C.C. which means it's not quite true... because even though he has "lost" everyone, there is one person who is still with him.

So Lelouch is living a lonely live, shutted away from everyone he knows on the countryside, but C.C is at his side

*awwww*

and btw, why would a Farmer wear such clothes... he looked like a kage from naruto to me... at least a bit ^^

[Buffalobiian]

I bet Lelouch is inside C.C.'s head like Mariane (or whatever she is called) was

you know, this cyberworld thingy... and C.C. is talking to him like she did with that woman before.

C.C. could talk to Marianne because Marianne could talk to C.C. through her Geass. C.C. gave Marianne her Geass, which allows her to go into people's hearts. Since it can't affect C.C, it my serve it's purpose as instead manifesting the ability to talk to her anytime anywhere instead of peeping.

My brother's watching the whole thing from Season 1 again, and I watched a little myself when I dropped by his room.

It all started in episode 1, where Lelouch asks "Am I going to die without accomplishing anything?" After all that he's done, alive or not, it was quite the satisfying ending.

*waits for picturebook R2 25.933 :o*

[KitKat]

I always interpreted Guildford's geass that he saw Lelouch as Cornelia only when Lelouch was holding his hand by his collar in that way. After having seen 'Cornelia' in a certain location, Guildford would continue to believe that she was there. However, I think that if he just saw Lelouch randomly in the street or something, the Geass wouldn't take effect.

We've learned that if you can only Geass a person once, it's far more efficient to say, "You will be my slave." rather than, "You will answer this question."

[KitKat]

I know, it's totally unexpected, but I've FINALLY caught up with this one, just as the last ep has come out! I marathoned the last 10 eps. It was glorious.

This was one of the best anime endings I've seen in a while. I almost stopped watching Geass back in season 1 because it became really painful and depressing to watch. After watching the episode with everything going wrong with Euphy, I felt engulfed by a haze of despair, and I thought to myself, "There will be no happy ending for this show. It is a show about the loss of hope, and the destruction of the world." (Having recently finished watching Wolf's Rain, I was harboring a bit of resentment towards anime in that respect) However, I'm glad I saw this through to the end. It was good to see Lelouch and Suzaku growing up a bit along the way, and coming to grips with what exactly they wanted in their ideal world by rejecting first Charles' and then Schneizel's version of that world in order to create something better.

[animus]

I always interpreted Guildford's geass that he saw Lelouch as Cornelia only when Lelouch was holding his hand by his collar in that way. After having seen 'Cornelia' in a certain location, Guildford would continue to believe that she was there. However, I think that if he just saw Lelouch randomly in the street or something, the Geass wouldn't take effect.

We've learned that if you can only Geass a person once, it's far more efficient to say, "You will be my slave." rather than, "You will answer this question."

That would be correct. The Geass order was when Lelouch did Cornelia's signature hand on the collar thing, he would instantly believe it was her.

I'm still rather perturbed why they brought Cornelia and Guillford back alive for such a trivial reason like stating the obvious, "Lelouch is dead!". Unless they really plan on making a spin-off or a sequel that might incorporate them.


On topic, "Nuclear weapons can't kill you if you're caught smack in the middle of the blast, but you will be transported a few episodes later to become a plot device."

[Kraco]

Slave, huh? Shouldn't it be any slave's dream to be free, by any means necessary, should an opportunity present itself? That could be a bit dangerous.

[KrayZ33]

C.C. could talk to Marianne because Marianne could talk to C.C. through her Geass. C.C. gave Marianne her Geass, which allows her to go into people's hearts. Since it can't affect C.C, it my serve it's purpose as instead manifesting the ability to talk to her anytime anywhere instead of peeping.



well ok... hmm, even though I can't believe it since all the other geass we saw didn't have the slightest affect on her

but it doesn't really matter

if lelouch is dead, then that's fine... it was simply awesome HOW he died with Nunally crying for him (btw what happened when he touched his arm?.. or were the flashbacks just a symbol and she actually realised everything because she saw Suzaku's agility)

it's just that I don't want to believe it for C.C.'s sake ^^

[RyougaZell]

Someone sent me a 'what's up ryou' rep here. awesome...



and btw, why would a Farmer wear such clothes... he looked like a kage from naruto to me... at least a bit ^^

to protect himself from the sun maybe?


------------------------

Lelouch always said, from Season 1, that those unwilling to be shot should not shot. This can also be interpreted as those unwilling to be killed should not kill... if he survived by using code it means he did not follow his own policy and was a hypocrite.

- R2. It could well mean Rerouch Ramperouge, but only as a symbolism. Doesn't mean his name became R2. Or is CC's name Cu Chulain / Cecile? Was V2... Vivi? Victor Vondoom? (lol)

- Why is the farmer covering his face? Because under the heat of the sun its preferable to sweat under clothes, than have your skin burned.

- Is CC lonely? No, she has Cheese-kun.

- Does Lelouch have CC's code? That would be stupid, since it means she will die and leave him alone. Which in turn destroys the phrase "geass doesn't leave you alone after all" said at the end.

- Dies Lelouch have Charles' code? Even if there had been time to steal it, Lelouch did not even know HOW to do so. And wasn't a geass supposed to dissapear if you had a code? Sure, its the code from someone else, but wasn't it stated before you could not possess both?

- Why did CC cry at the church if she knew Lelouch was to live? Could she have sent her Code from there? I was under the impression you needed to be touching each other to do so. Charles did so when VV was defeated at the cult, by Cornelia and Lelouch. The sister attacked CC at the church in the past.

- Is a sacrifice of blood requiered to pass a code? CC was bleeding when she got her code... but we didn't see Charles bleeding. So... is Lelouch bleeding from the sword pierce making his sacrifice? I believe CC should have been there. Charles got his code as soon as he 'killed' VV. Also... when you give up your code you die. CC is alive. Charles did not gave his. VV was going to give him his anyways, to fulfill Ragnarok.

- Suzaku cried. Could Lelouch have betrayed him to the end by not telling him the real plan? By not fulfilling his part of the plan of letting him kill him? Leave Nunnaly alone for the sake of living alone? He who was ready to be killed at the Ikaruga, lying to the end to save Kallen, since he no longer could live with Nunnally?

- No one was going to hunt him down. Sure. If Hitler was alive it didn't mean the world would go to chaos. True. But why do I say Lelouch being found would bring war? Because it will tell the world, even if they didn't know, that Nunally, the UFN and the Black Knights tricked them. Is that true? Not it isn't. Will the commom people care? No, they would blame them anyway. Lelouch being alive would gamble everything he worked for. No one hide Hitler for their benefit. If the Allies had hidden Hitler... will the world care about he being alive? Most certainly. And they would blame those that said he was killed, because it would mean information was manipulated to control others.

- Why do I think CC is happy despite not being with him? Because for years she only wished to die. But now she was loved. As they said... better love and lose, than never love. She thought she could no longer love, thanks to the sister, but now that is different. She even said herself... she didn't know she could care about winning or losing. And lose she did at the battle. Her heart maybe was closer to Lelouch's, as they had their contract, but in the end she is still alone, and will be until she gives her code. If Lelouch was alive through her code she was condemning him to her same curse. Would she do it? To the person she loves?

- Lelouch's visions of the past live... there are four important scenes before we see him, Nunnally and Suzaku as children. Shirley's death. Kallen's kiss. Rolo's brothership. CC's kiss. The one that is shown the shortest is, to the annoyance of many, CC's.


Yes yes... I said I wasn't posting again on the thread. Sue me. But I got mad that my arguments where countered with Kallen comments when I wasn't even talking about her. Despite being my favorite character I've never said Lelouch died because he ended with CC and not Kallen. It was well known since the Kiss they could never work together ever again, nor live togther, since they sought different things, despite what they may have felt for each other, or rather what Kallen would have felt for him, since he NEVER revealed if he liked of loved any of the females, he just cried death (Shirley), wished to study again together (Kallen), wished to save and live on (Kallen) or simply fulfill her wish (CC). I said he died because of all the symbolism involved. To the dismay of every CC fan, nothing ever happened. Everything was implied. Same with Kallen. Same with Shirley. So please do not counter my arguments with comments about a favorite character I didn't use before this post. Read them. I didn't.

PS: ORANGEEEEEEE

[Kraco]

Lelouch always said, from Season 1, that those unwilling to be shot should not shot. This can also be interpreted as those unwilling to be killed should not kill... if he survived by using code it means he did not follow his own policy and was a hypocrite.

This only applies if his absolute death was necessary for the plan to succeed. Because otherwise, had he not accepted death, he wouldn't have been able to stand there to get skewered. However, I don't really think such a plan would be compatible with his nature. What glory is there in an unnecessary death? It does nothing to strenghten your conviction, and certainly doesn't save you from being a hypocrite. Any fool can kill himself. It takes more to make a difference and stay alive, and that idea, I reckon, was behind Lelouch's every daring gamble.

So, while I'm saying Lelouch accepted the possibility of death like a real soldier, it would be more fitting for his nature to try to trick everybody if there was any chance for such a thing. He always had perfect trust in his own plans. It doesn't describe Lelouch at all to imagine him thinking: "Oh noes, they are going to see through my plans and find out everything sooner or later, let's not do it!"

And he would have no reason to tell neither Suzaku nor Nunnally because his fate is to never see them again, whether dead or alive.

[KrayZ33]

I don't think it was "that" hot there...

and btw
Because under the heat of the sun its preferable to sweat under clothe
is not really true... you have to wear very light clothes, that guy however wears a blanket around his shoulders!

but jeans and a normal shirt like Orange does when he's working with Anya

[Buffalobiian]

- R2. It could well mean Rerouch Ramperouge, but only as a symbolism. Doesn't mean his name became R2. Or is CC's name Cu Chulain / Cecile? Was V2... Vivi? Victor Vondoom? (lol)

I'm not completely bought by that idea neither.


- Does Lelouch have CC's code? That would be stupid, since it means she will die and leave him alone. Which in turn destroys the phrase "geass doesn't leave you alone after all" said at the end.

I actually agree with this one.


- Dies Lelouch have Charles' code? Even if there had been time to steal it, Lelouch did not even know HOW to do so. And wasn't a geass supposed to dissapear if you had a code? Sure, its the code from someone else, but wasn't it stated before you could not possess both?

Firstly, we haven't been told exactly how the transfer occurs. That's entirely up to speculation, and yes, it means we're allowed to speculate. Things that occurred to viewers were:

1) Transfer looked like it needed direct contact
2) You don't have to have both party's consent

Now, consider this point: Do you have to have anybody's consent? Is it possible for the code to transfer upon contact? Before anybody says "That's absurd, you can accidentally lose your immortality!", be aware you must have a fully developed Geass. Not many people have that, and chances are those who do are people you (Code master) know. And it's not like the system was developed to be fool-proof. Just look at V.V.

As for "Isn't the Geass supposed to disappear after you have both?", we'll go back to Charles. Remember how Lelouch geassed him to kill himself and he did? Then he came back to life. I can find three possibilities:

1) Charles was playing along with Lelouch to rise and smack it in his face. He was never Geassed.

2) Charles was indeed geassed by Lelouch and attempted to kill himself. He can be geassed because he's not the Code master who gave Lelouch his Geass. Charles lived because he had his Code.

3) Charles took V.V.'s code, but it remained dormant within him. He still had his memory alteration Geass. Lelouch then geassed Charles, who killed himself as a Geass user subjected to another Geass. When he died, the Code took effect. He resurrected as a Code master without a Geass.

Not that any of them are more accurate, or "proven" than the others. But 3 would work.


- Why did CC cry at the church if she knew Lelouch was to live? Could she have sent her Code from there?

No, she couldn't have sent her code. If we use the above explanations, she is crying because she thinks Lelouch will die. Hence why I'm along with the Charle's Code idea.


- Is a sacrifice of blood requiered to pass a code? CC was bleeding when she got her code... but we didn't see Charles bleeding. So... is Lelouch bleeding from the sword pierce making his sacrifice? I believe CC should have been there. Charles got his code as soon as he 'killed' VV. Also... when you give up your code you die. CC is alive. Charles did not gave his. VV was going to give him his anyways, to fulfill Ragnarok.

See above. However, I do not recall V.V. wanting or needing to give his to fulfill Ragnarok. They needed both Codes there, but didn't say they had to take them from the masters. Secondly, things we are certain of are:

1) Charles took V.V.'s code because V.V. lied. Execution from the Emperor himself.
2) Charles was taking C.C.'s code because C.C. wanted to die. As we can see in the episode, Charles and Marianne were performing the Joining of Ragnarok without taking C.C.'s code. Both codes just merely had to be present.


Lelouch always said, from Season 1, that those unwilling to be shot should not shot. This can also be interpreted as those unwilling to be killed should not kill... if he survived by using code it means he did not follow his own policy and was a hypocrite.

See Kraco's post above. Also, there is the possibility that Lelouch didn't know he would survive. If we hold onto the assumption that he had the Code unintentionally.


- Suzaku cried. Could Lelouch have betrayed him to the end by not telling him the real plan? By not fulfilling his part of the plan of letting him kill him? Leave Nunnaly alone for the sake of living alone? He who was ready to be killed at the Ikaruga, lying to the end to save Kallen, since he no longer could live with Nunnally?

See above.


No one was going to hunt him down. Sure. If Hitler was alive it didn't mean the world would go to chaos. True. But why do I say Lelouch being found would bring war? Because it will tell the world, even if they didn't know, that Nunally, the UFN and the Black Knights tricked them. Is that true? Not it isn't. Will the commom people care? No, they would blame them anyway. Lelouch being alive would gamble everything he worked for. No one hide Hitler for their benefit. If the Allies had hidden Hitler... will the world care about he being alive? Most certainly. And they would blame those that said he was killed, because it would mean information was manipulated to control others.

I have no argument for this one. It would be a big problem if he was found. But again, he can't die...so that's another problem. That's why he covers his face perhaps? You could say he can wait for a decade or two before popping up as a look-alike. After all, Code masters don't seem to age.

Also, I've heard arguments that you don't lose your Geass if you take a Code. It only happens if you do it to the one who gave it to you. Not sure about this idea, but his Geass would come in handy then.


- Why do I think CC is happy despite not being with him? Because for years she only wished to die. But now she was loved. As they said... better love and lose, than never love. She thought she could no longer love, thanks to the sister, but now that is different. She even said herself... she didn't know she could care about winning or losing. And lose she did at the battle. Her heart maybe was closer to Lelouch's, as they had their contract, but in the end she is still alone, and will be until she gives her code. If Lelouch was alive through her code she was condemning him to her same curse. Would she do it? To the person she loves?

See above.


- Lelouch's visions of the past live... there are four important scenes before we see him, Nunnally and Suzaku as children. Shirley's death. Kallen's kiss. Rolo's brothership. CC's kiss. The one that is shown the shortest is, to the annoyance of many, CC's.

Good observation.


Yes yes... I said I wasn't posting again on the thread. Sue me. But I got mad that my arguments where countered with Kallen comments when I wasn't even talking about her. Despite being my favorite character I've never said Lelouch died because he ended with CC and not Kallen. It was well known since the Kiss they could never work together ever again, nor live togther, since they sought different things, despite what they may have felt for each other, or rather what Kallen would have felt for him, since he NEVER revealed if he liked of loved any of the females, he just cried death (Shirley), wished to study again together (Kallen), wished to save and live on (Kallen) or simply fulfill her wish (CC). I said he died because of all the symbolism involved. To the dismay of every CC fan, nothing ever happened. Everything was implied. Same with Kallen. Same with Shirley. So please do not counter my arguments with comments about a favorite character I didn't use before this post. Read them. I didn't.

No worries. I didn't mention Kallen at all ;)


PS: ORANGEEEEEEE

lol. nice.

PS: This post was written realising that people are allowed to freely interpret the ending, as it was supposed to. You do not have agree with my take on the ending, nor believe any of my arguments. Likewise, viewers are allowed to voice their opinions on why they believe in a particular ending, explore assumptions and such.

Don't bother bashing with "Shut up, the ending's however we see fit."

You'll just get "Shut up, we know."

[RyougaZell]

LOL. I won't bash. I loved your post. Except so many 'see above', lol. This was the argument I seeked earlier and did not get. I said it before, you are free to choose the end that fits yourself, and your arguments are great Buff.

While I still think he dies, I find plausible your theory on how he got the code from Charles, without he knowning, without Suzaku knowing and certainly CC not knowing. Also, activating it by death is also plausible. Only defect, or counterargument, I can give to this would be... wouldn't he come back to live in Nunnally's arms? Would she dare hide him? Charles came back immediately following this theory... which in turn will help understand the blood on CC, which I believe was also hers, and not just the sisters. Even with my counterargument, this is the best theory out there... and you explained it in a way that you can even convince me.... save the defect I mentioned of course.

I think Charles and Marianned said they needed both codes to start it... but that is something for another day indeed. Whatever was needed, VV died (yeahz!)

Going for the theory he survived... Lelouch needs to over seclude himself... or the world would be sent to chaos. Okay I just laughed... imagine Lelouch being found because CC ordered Pizza and the delivery boy saw him... that would be idioticly awesome... XD

Either way... I loved that Kallen was the one that told us, the viewers, what went on those months. Too bad Gino and Schneizel are alive.

PS: Whacha think about the Orange?

PS2: I just pre-ordered my Bunny Kallen :D
http://lolipuni.com/list/img/0809/080925f15.jpg
5510 yen

[Kraco]

I actually never really thought seriously about the possibility of Charles's geass. However, now that I read Buffalobiian's post, one thing occurred to me: What exactly is the geass code? And why exactly does it keep its host immortal? If we look at this whole thing from the perspective of the geass code itself, and think it's some sort of a parasite or infection wanting to survive, then it would be natural it would leave the annihilating Charles's body and jump to someone near, and if an existing geass power is a prerequisite, then it would have had to be Lelouch in the World of C, even though it was another code that gave Lelouch's power.

Yeah, if we consider the geass code something similar to One Ring, granting strange powers and giving an unnaturally long life yet having an agenda of its own, and certainly wanting to survive, a few things would be explained.

[shinta|hikari]

I personally think it happened this way:

C.C. gave Lelouch her code during the two month time skip.

Counter arguments -
a) Why was C.C. crying at the church then?
b) Would C.C. really want to pass her curse of immortality to Lelouch?
c) If this happened, C.C. would die eventually and leave Lelouch alone.

My answer -
The first counter argument is answered by the second. C.C. clearly stated as she was crying: "As the price for using geass on other people, you ..." This blank can mean a million things, like "chose to be immortal", "chose to leave almost all the people you care about", "get hugged by the traitor Suzaku", and yes, "chose to die". I am leaning more towards the less blatant versions because it would be meaningless to omit the words otherwise. Simply put, she was probably crying because she made Lelouch immortal, and because she knew he had to leave everything behind.

Still, even if Lelouch became immortal, he can just find some person and give him/her a geass then manipulate them into using it a lot (much like C.C. did). He can then give his code to that person, that is, if he really wanted to lose his immortality.

On the third point, are you guys saying it is less lonely for Lelouch to simply die and leave C.C. alone, than them living together for one lifetime until C.C. perishes? Or maybe even perish together if they wish to (not that I think they would want geass to continue, but C.C.'s final line implies it is not impossible)? I agree with the loved and lost preference, but this sounds more akin to that idea than C.C. just enjoying memories of the past after she allowed her source of happiness to die a horrible death.

There are just too many assumptions in the Charles theory, unlike the C.C. one. <Occam's Razor>

Charles theory assumptions:
1) The code can be transferred without prolonged physical contact.
2) The code can be transferred inadvertently, or without consent or intent from both parties/the receiver.
3) What Kraco said, about the geass being a parasite.
4) The code remains dormant after transfer until the one that receives it dies.

The problem here is, none of these three points were ever proven in the show. Not only that, it is quite unlikely, since all the scenes that were shown to reveal the specifics of the code seem to go against it.

The only time the code was actually transferred (Charles and V.V.) clearly showed intent from the person that wishes to obtain it. The only time we actually saw the code being transferred (C.C. and Charles, albeit unsuccessful since C.C. broke physical contact) suggested that it was a process that took a relatively long time, not just a few seconds of accidental touching. Also, there was never any indication that the code is similar to a parasite or anything of the sort, or that it lies dormant after it gets transferred. While this does not make it impossible for the Charles theory to work, it makes it quite improbable.

EDIT: By the way, has it ever occurred to anyone that if assumption number 1 and 2 are true, all the times that C.C. and Lelouch touched (and there are several) should have led to a code transfer? This clearly did not happen though, which leads me to confirm that the Charles theory is quite bogus.

C.C. theory assumptions:
1) The code bearer (the immortal one), survives even after the code is transferred.
2) C.C. would actually give Lelouch her code.
3) Lelouch would actually want her code.

The first assumption has been strongly indicated, if not proven, when C.C. had her final chat with V.V. before he died. The second one has been addressed above and in the final paragraph of this post. The third one has been more than sufficiently addressed by Kraco in his posts.

Is there even a decent comparison between the two theories? The Charles theory assumes details and dynamics that were never revealed or even implied. The C.C. theory only assumes how the characters act and decide, which is much more open to interpretation, and has stronger arguments supporting it, compared to some random theory that relies on possibility instead of likelihood.

Regarding the danger of Lelouch reappearing again and destroying the peace... Simply laying low (like driving a wagon in some province in disguise) should aid greatly in avoiding detection. Heck, almost no one recognized him as Lelouch in that final scene (assuming it is him, which is what we are doing).

Plastic surgery is also an option, among a million other ways to hide your identity in a show that managed to get a maid disguised as Lelouch to kiss a girl and not get found out. It is a show about hiding one's identity and people are worried the most deceptive and smartest one around will stupidly get caught?

On a final note, C.C.'s reason for wanting death is loneliness. She wanted to be loved, not to simply experience it, but to have it. I doubt she would let Lelouch die if she could help it (in fact, keeping Lelouch alive was most of her mission, one that eventually superseded her wish for death), and she could, by simply transferring her code to him. Yes, she curses him with immortality, but I can easily see C.C. prioritizing her happiness (which is deeply rooted in caring for Lelouch and his survival), as she clearly showed when she asked Lelouch to simply cease his plans and told him that he has done enough. Also, it is not like the curse is permanent, since the code can be transferred. Before anyone replies by saying "I don't think they can do such a thing due to (moral reason A) and (moral reason B).", I would like to remind you that those two are hardly hindered by such things, if at all.

[RyougaZell]

Yes, she curses him with immortality, but I can easily see C.C. prioritizing her happiness (which is deeply rooted in caring for Lelouch and his survival), as she clearly showed when she asked Lelouch to simply cease his plans and told him that he has done enough.

In other words... she doesn't really care about him. Just herself. She became what she hated. The same as the sister which gaver her geass.

If I were to choose one of the zillion theories of why Lelouch is alive, it wouldn't be this one. It would be the Charles's dormant code. CC should have just handed her code to Mao then, if she only cared about herself. Sure, she can spend the following 40~50 years with Lelouch. Then he is cursed by eternity.

Would Lelouch give the code to someone else? Remember he wanted to end the curse of geass, so he killed the geass cult. Whatever code he could have gotten, he would never hand it down, unless he became broken, and became like the sister, no longer caring about others. A man who discarded his identity, life, family and friends to find peace? The code would be indeed a parasite... one that contaminates the mind.

EDIT:

I recall Marianne asking why CC was not dissapearing alongside her and Charles... I think its because CC stopped being selfish... thus she would not prioritize her own happiness as you say.

[shinta|hikari]

In other words... she doesn't really care about him. Just herself. She became what she hated. The same as the sister which gaver her geass.

So you mean it would be more considerate and caring of C.C. to just let Lelouch die instead of giving him another chance at life (one less tragic, and with her, no less)?

Don't misunderstand. I am not saying that she does this against Lelouch's will. The only thing she valued more than her own happiness is Lelouch, and his will (near the end of the show, not as much in the earlier parts). She has always respected his decision, even if it actually goes against her objective of keeping him alive throughout the series. I am saying that it is quite possible that they both decided to carry out that plan, and while hesitant, it is not far-fetched to think that C.C. would do it (and cry about it, as she did in the church).


CC should have just handed her code to Mao then, if she only cared about herself.

The reason why she didn't do that is because Mao would never let her. Mao would never allow her to die because he is obsessed with her. Don't forget that she was the one that left him because he could not fulfill the contract, since it ultimately ends with her death.

Oh, I should mention that C.C.'s plan the entire time she was with Lelouch was to give him her code and die. She only changed her mind at the thought elevator because she realized that Lelouch could not kill her. She even said: "You are too kind".

You seem to think that C.C. is some love-struck martyr that would sacrifice everything for Lelouch's goals. She is not.


Would Lelouch give the code to someone else? Remember he wanted to end the curse of geass, so he killed the geass cult. Whatever code he could have gotten, he would never hand it down, unless he became broken, and became like the sister, no longer caring about others. A man who discarded his identity, life, family and friends to find peace? The code would be indeed a parasite... one that contaminates the mind.

That is why I posited that future only as a possibility. I even said "if he really wanted to lose his immortality". He may choose to keep it for one reason or another (one reason is the one you posited), but eternity is a long time, and he may change his mind. I just clarified that possibility, since people seem to think that immortality/the code is a permanent curse when it is not.

Also, don't forget C.C.'s final line, that clearly stated that geass does not always bring loneliness.

On another point, in order for the Charles dormant code theory to work, the first two assumptions I listed in my earlier post have to be true, and if they are...

"EDIT: By the way, has it ever occurred to anyone that if assumption number 1 and 2 are true, all the times that C.C. and Lelouch touched (and there are several) should have led to a code transfer? This clearly did not happen though, which leads me to confirm that the Charles theory is quite bogus."

Of course, you can come up with another reason for it (like sometimes the code transfers because of agitation, or because they were in that other dimension), that is not shown or even implied in the show. But hey, like you said, one can interpret this ending however they want, right?

[RyougaZell]

So you mean it would be more considerate and caring of C.C. to just let Lelouch die instead of giving him another chance at life (one less tragic, and with her, no less)?



And at the end this contradicts your own arguments. Giving him a chance at a less tragic life with her? For how long? 20 years? 30 years? 40 years? What comes afterwards? The curse of loneliness caused by geass.

I am NOT trying to change your interpretation of the ending. I am just pointing out the flaws of your theories. Feel free to post the flaws of mine as well.

[shinta|hikari]

I just posted two entire pages of flaws in your theories, though... But I can shorten it. Possibility is not probability.

Please read the paragraph after that one, where I clarified what I meant.

And like I said, don't forget C.C.'s final line, which supports this idea. You seem to want to doom anyone with the code to a life of loneliness. While I do agree that it is quite probable, the immortal witch that wished to die for the longest time herself said at the very end that: "The power of kings, known as geass brings one solitude. Not quite accurate, is it?"

Moreover, in your dead Lelouch scenario, you were the one that said that C.C. found happiness in the fact that she 1) found hope, 2) was loved, 3) has loved and lost, and 4) has fond memories that make her genuinely smile like she did in the ending, despite still being immortal. What makes it so far-fetched that an immortal Lelouch will eventually be able to feel the same?

[RyougaZell]

I just posted two entire pages of flaws in your theories, though... But I can shorten it. Possibility is not probability.



And as I stated before. This applies to your as well. :cool:

I should get back to work....

[Buffalobiian]

Charles theory assumptions:
1) The code can be transferred without prolonged physical contact.
2) The code can be transferred inadvertently, or without consent or intent from both parties/the receiver.
3) What Kraco said, about the geass being a parasite.
4) The code remains dormant after transfer until the one that receives it dies.


Fixing a few things up:
1) By physical contact, I meant physical contact with the Code Mark. This assumption was based on how Charles looked like he was trying to touch C.C.'s face. Why he didn't palm her forehead? I don't know...

2) This one was indeed an assumption based out of no where. I thought of this because if it doesn't require both parties, that leaves one, or none.

3) I can't talk for this one. It wasn't my idea :p

4) Now this one was chosen from this:


As for "Isn't the Geass supposed to disappear after you have both?", we'll go back to Charles. Remember how Lelouch geassed him to kill himself and he did? Then he came back to life. I can find three possibilities:

1) Charles was playing along with Lelouch to rise and smack it in his face. He was never Geassed.

2) Charles was indeed geassed by Lelouch and attempted to kill himself. He can be geassed because he's not the Code master who gave Lelouch his Geass. Charles lived because he had his Code.

3) Charles took V.V.'s code, but it remained dormant within him. He still had his memory alteration Geass. Lelouch then geassed Charles, who killed himself as a Geass user subjected to another Geass. When he died, the Code took effect. He resurrected as a Code master without a Geass.


After some thought, #2 can be scrapped. Straight after he resurrected Charles showed Lelouch he can't be geassed. His eyes repel the rays.

That leaves #1 and #3. During the course of the series, Charles character feels to me like one who is straight and upfront. I can't recall any particular evidence, it's just a feeling I get. Perhaps it's all his speeches about the strongest survive put so matter-of-factly. Perhaps it's Schneizel's comments on how Charles would have taken his White King without hesitation, translating to: If he sees your opening, he'll take it. Something like that.

Looking back at episode 15, when he got Geassed, he (firstly yelled, then) obeyed with "very well". When he came back, he's full of confidence. "Your powers cannot beat me!" "Fool!".

The latter just seems a lot like the Charles we know. And to me, he doesn't seem like the guy to let you take the upper hand, even if it's pretending.

But yes, the Charles Theory does explore more unproven, or perhaps better phrased, uncovered aspects of the story than yours. However, by taking these assumptions, which are in their own right quite plausible, they explain a lot of counter-arguments, which I see it as its strong point.

I'll leave you with yours though, since I'm finding it harder to compare/contrast on where Lelouch got his Code.


LOL. I won't bash.

Now that I read my post, it looked like the final paragraph was directed at you, which I can tell you wasn't the case. More a general message.


Only defect, or counterargument, I can give to this would be... wouldn't he come back to live in Nunnally's arms? Would she dare hide him? Charles came back immediately following this theory... which in turn will help understand the blood on CC, which I believe was also hers, and not just the sisters. Even with my counterargument, this is the best theory out there... and you explained it in a way that you can even convince me.... save the defect I mentioned of course.

You're making me think too. It's possible that he can play dead, but he's leaving himself in hostile hands with Jeremiah retreating like that... At the very least, Suzaku wouldn't have let people mutilate the body or anything.


Going for the theory he survived... Lelouch needs to over seclude himself... or the world would be sent to chaos. Okay I just laughed... imagine Lelouch being found because CC ordered Pizza and the delivery boy saw him... that would be idioticly awesome... XD

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


PS: Whacha think about the Orange? I thought it was pretty funny. Ever thought of making an Orange-kun emoticon?


if lelouch is dead, then that's fine... it was simply awesome HOW he died with Nunally crying for him (btw what happened when he touched his arm?.. or were the flashbacks just a symbol and she actually realised everything because she saw Suzaku's agility)

That flashback was done so we won't have a definite answer. You can say they were literal memory transfers because Lelouch is now a Code master. You can also think of it as simply Nunnally's "knowing the truth" ability, and the pictures were merely a figurative representation for animation purposes. For the Charles Theory to work, it would have to be the second one, but it's up to you.

[RyougaZell]

Wish I could do emoticons. I just found the Orange at another site and knew I needed to use it... and it serves to change out of the Kakashi emoticon. I don't even like Kakashi that much but the expression of the emoticon was priceless.


About Lelouch being found because of CC's Pizza... imagine that... the World fell into chaos because of a slice of Pizza... and maybe CC even dared as to use Lelouch's credit card to buy it... lol

Playing dead could fail... because Nunnally keeps hugging him. She would feel his heart beating again. I don't think Kallen, Kaguya or the others would stay away from his body either. At least until Zerosaku explained their plan.

[shinta|hikari]

And as I stated before. This applies to your as well. :cool:

Uh, no. All my posts were written to show how the C.C. scenario was more probable than the Charles one. I also provided proper references and indicators regarding the C.C. decision, and that at least is just as likely as the alternative.

Actually, I take that back. That does apply to my posts as well, since they were actually written with that idea in mind. :rolleyes:

About the playing dead thing, I think they (people with the code) can stay down for a while or come back immediately. This can be seen from C.C.'s deaths in season 1, the first one when she was shot in the head, and the other one when she got clobbered by debris when Suzaku got mind raped. In both cases, she stayed dead for quite a while, long enough for Lelouch to leave after stealing a Knightmare in the first case, and for Lelouch to carry her to some cave and clean her up for the latter. In some cases, they come back immediately, like V.V. This opens up the possibility that Lelouch stayed dead for a while, then just disappeared (possibly with C.C.'s help) when the time is right.

[RyougaZell]

I actually phrased the part about coming back immediately when the code first activates. Afterwards they can stay down longer (CC's first appearance on the series)

You see... Charles' -died- when he shot himself and came back immediately.
And I think CC came back to life immediately after the sister kill her to give the code.

We have no proof that a Code Beared dies or not when they give the code. Until know we've only seen VV and the sister giving it, and they died afterwards. Execution? Suicide? Handing down the code? Its open... no real proof for any of them.

I mean... was CC going to die when she was going to give the code to Charles? Or she planned to suicide? Damn Geass left many things to interpretation.