Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 [Archive] - Page 3

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-05-2008, 02:24 AM

Seriously how can people even argue over who's a hypocrite?

Suzaku I think everyone can agree he's a Hypocrite as is already well documented in this thread.

Lelouch on the other hand seriously what has he ever done thats Hypocritical? While his plans don't always go as he wishes them to go and he has made sacrifices along the way he has never at any point strayed from his goals.

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

According to definition 1) Lelouche is a hypocrite and Suzaku is not. According to Definition 2) Suzaku is a hypocrite, and Lelouche is not.

Now, what's bothering me is the different standards being applied to the two. Most people seem to say Lelouche is not a hypocrite because he's consitant within himself. He's not lying to himself, despite lying to others. He gets so much respect for that as a character. No one is crediting Suzaku for being the exact same way. Suzaku believes in not shedding blood. A person who truly believes in the value of life and shed blood, does not idly stand by while another sheds blood. He gets in the way of that person. He shed's that person's blood if necessary. Suzaku has 2 choices, let Lelouche do what he's doing, or stop him. Suzaku's goal is to create a just world, much like lelouche, with the exception that Suzaku seeks to minimize the blood shed in the process. Unfortunately, because of Lelouche's rebellion, that means stopping Lelouche. You give one way Suzaku/Lelouce is a hypocrite, I give you a way Suzaku/Lelouche is not.

Kururugi Suzaku murdered his own father at the age of ten because he supported rebelling against an evil empire, then joined said evil empire to serve it without question - in effect, he decided that because his real father had failed at defending their country, he deserved to die, and turned Britannia into his father figure. He views the Britannian empire and its leadership as his personal messiahs. He has something akin to a way more fucked up version of Stockholm Syndrome and it bothers me that people in this show act like Suzaku is a reasonable part of the loyal opposition. He's a fucking batty loon.

We don't know Suzaku thought his father deserved to die. We only know he killed him to stop him. If there was another way, he might've done it. He doesn't view Brittania as a personal messiah, or else he wouldn't be trying to change it from the inside, which is his stated goal. I'm not sure what you mean by "reasonable part of the loyal opposition". But he's certainly no more batty than Lelouche.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 06:32 AM

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 06:35 AM

@Uchiha - Suzaku became as you describe because of Euphie's death. Before that, he was a fucking hypocrite. Now he is less that, and more of a fucking asshole.

And in your definition number 1, both of them are hypocrites.

And you know, there is no way to convince your father to stop what he is doing, except uh, stab and kill him.

God I'm glad that is you user name.

@Shinji - while I hate Suzaku to the bone, he is not as bad as you describe. We have to accept that so that we can cut him where it counts, and deeply.

KrayZ33

Mon, 05-05-2008, 07:56 AM

I don't know why but Kallen is nothing more than a sex object for me with all the fanservice about her.

Is there a episode yet where she doesn't show her ass or boobs yet? They could do it at least in a more appealing way like they did with C.C. @ the container where she sat on the handrail.. Season 2 is really very much about fanservice 8[
Well its not that I dislike to see C.C, Shirley or even Kallen (especially the first 2) but it is a bit too much right now,especially with Kallen...

and I lol'd in RL when C.C and Lelouch where talking aboutV.V. as a male character...I thought it was a little girl

btw did C.C. shrunk herself when she fell on the pizza-pastry?? Or was it meant to look like she gets sucked into it?.. Her arms/legs simply everything shrinked when she bounced on it. And was she cosplaying that robot-girl from Negimagi? (poor C.C. getting thrown into a container full of tomatoes :( )

RyougaZell

Mon, 05-05-2008, 08:37 AM

And was she cosplaying that robot-girl from Negimagi? (poor C.C. getting thrown into a container full of tomatoes :( )

Yuki and I already called her Chachamaru on this thread.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 05-05-2008, 08:43 AM

Fanservice aside, this episode did well in providing comedy relief and a nice big trap set up at the same time. Hypocrite or not, you have to agree that Suzaku isn't just the strong headed solder he was in Season 1. Now as Knight of Seven, he's learned to not only use his opponent's weakness against him, he's learned to use his position to call upon more manpower in the form of two fellow Knights of Round.

Though more of an asshole, we can finally see more strategic battles between Lelouch and Suzaku rather than purely the Brain vs Brawn scenario we had for most of last season.

And it seems Milly misses Lloyd, while we can't be sure the reverse is true.

edit: Did anyone get an encoding boogie @19:17 Eclipse version?

kenren

Mon, 05-05-2008, 08:58 AM

Another great episode. Too great. Looks like things are just gonna get harder for Lelouch. He needs a break. :p

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-05-2008, 10:34 AM

Okey, cool that you make up your own meaning to what hypocrisy is, me, I'd rather go for the dictionary version, since it's correct and your's IS NOT.

"a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess."

"a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude."

Note in the second one that Lelouch doesn't have a publically desirable "attitude", what he has is the intellect to support the people, he just doesn't let on everything he knows and wants to do. Lelouch has never been a hypocrite. Now I'm not gonna go much deeper into this, since you Barles are bashing out your own thoughts without even reading what another person says, focusing on the part in their posts where you actually think you have leverage, when in fact you don't.

So I second what DDBen said and will now walk away from this debate about hypocrisy, which you so clearly know very little about. It's a big word for some people, I know.

We don't know if Suzaku thought his father deserved to die? Is that a question to ask? He killed his father because he did not agree with him... And he was 10 years old. Let me make it clear to you. No one, and I do mean NO ONE at the age of 10 kills their parents unless their mental health has a big warning sign over their head stating "CYCO" (yes I use that spelling, it's taken from a band and it is deliberatly). So, it's not a matter of wether he deserved to die, it's a matter of how much of a cyco Suzaku is and how much he is trying to hide that fact.

Suzaku's will is law, and he is a puppet under the emperor.

Getting a little catty there aren't we? wow...Anyway, the definitions I posted in my posts are in fact from the merriam-webster online dictionary, merriam-webster being one of the trusted name-brands among dictionaries. It's no MY definition at all. Taking credit for something like that, I think is plagiarism. Second of all, I read both your posts thoroughly. And you are correct, I focus on the part of your argument where I have leverage, the reason being, I think your argument is wrong, and focusing where I think the logical flaw is (i.e. where I leverage) is EXACTLY how one is supposed to counter argue. You really ought to try to do the same with my posts, if you actually care to argue or show why you're right and I'm wrong. These arguments are supposed to fun, no need to get catty about it. I suppose you did use leverage, in saying my definitions were my own and not from a dictionary. It's also the only "leverage" you tried to use. Now that you know better, wanna try again?

Concerning your argument about Suzaku, I can't really argue against it, because you're probably right about him not being all sane. Ok...Neither's Lelouche. If Suzaku is willing to kill his dad at ten to achieve what he thinks is right, that makes not sane. Well, Leloche has been planning his rebellion ever since he was discarded from his family. That was like, what, when he was 8? No sane person is willing to Sacrifice and manipulate an entire people for personal gain, no matter the actual ends. If you end up saying the ends justify the means, then the ends that Suzaku tried to achieve justified his means. Be fair with the standards you use to render judgement.

@Uchiha - Suzaku became as you describe because of Euphie's death. Before that, he was a fucking hypocrite. Now he is less that, and more of a fucking asshole.

And in your definition number 1, both of them are hypocrites.

And you know, there is no way to convince your father to stop what he is doing, except uh, stab and kill him.

God I'm glad that is you user name.

@Shinji - while I hate Suzaku to the bone, he is not as bad as you describe. We have to accept that so that we can cut him where it counts, and deeply.

Well, the reason I said Suzaku wasn't a hypocrite according to definition 1), it's because I actually believe that he has this virtue, the ideals, and is trying as best he can to uphold them in the face of war. Just because you're against bloodshed, doesn't mean you sit with your hands tucked away while everyone's dying around you. You can't really blame someone for killing a ruthless revolutionary and fighting his soldiers to do so, in an effort to stop the bloodshed. As far as him becoming what I said he was after Euphie died (I'm still in utter shock as to how that happened btw..that was genius), I think Euphie made him get real serious about it. Remember at the end of Season 1, he said he suspected for quite awhile that Lelouche was in fact Zero? I think he was the same, but just more serious after Euphies death, and him finding out about Geass, which also pissed him off to hell.

Knives122

Mon, 05-05-2008, 10:35 AM

Idk, these last two episodes have been pretty lackluster at best for me. Sure the cliffhangers are pretty good, but the "we'll keep playing the S1 card and you'll watch it" this is starting to get annoying.

Oh well at least we got to see C.C's ass:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9751/assshottw4.jpg

15% of the people that watch this show watch it for her anyway...

KrayZ33

Mon, 05-05-2008, 10:52 AM

Lol, you didn't make a screenshot of her panties when she fell into the container? Thats low! I already got a life size poster of it

btw why is it that Code Geass mechas are so damn colourful? The new Mecha showed this episode could have been so great in a simple dark or grey with red eyes..

but noo it had red/blue/pink/white/yellow and what-not in it :(

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 10:57 AM

@Uchiha - its funny how you give a lecture on argumentation and completely ignore my post (that is addressed to you BTW) that attacks the mistakes in your argument.

C.C. is only more than half the reason I watch code geass, so I am not part of that minority yet.

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-05-2008, 11:01 AM

Lol, I noticed your post, I was just a bit annoyed at the guy I responded to and I forgot to respond to you. I went back and edited my post to respond to your while you were writing this one.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 11:21 AM

Well, the reason I said Suzaku wasn't a hypocrite according to definition 1), it's because I actually believe that he has this virtue, the ideals, and is trying as best he can to uphold them in the face of war. Just because you're against bloodshed, doesn't mean you sit with your hands tucked away while everyone's dying around you. You can't really blame someone for killing a ruthless revolutionary and fighting his soldiers to do so, in an effort to stop the bloodshed. As far as him becoming what I said he was after Euphie died (I'm still in utter shock as to how that happened btw..that was genius), I think Euphie made him get real serious about it. Remember at the end of Season 1, he said he suspected for quite awhile that Lelouche was in fact Zero? I think he was the same, but just more serious after Euphies death, and him finding out about Geass, which also pissed him off to hell.

You must have a very loose understanding of virtue then. Preaching against bloodshed while killing people is a fundamental contradiction. You may give the example of police who are sometimes forced to take the lives of criminals in the interest of protecting innocents, but Suzaku's case is clearly nothing of the sort. Please do not forget who he works for, as well as what they make/made him do.

What makes him a hypocrite is the fact that he thinks his way (this way) is much better, despite it being on the exact same level. He puts on a "false appearance of virtue", when he actually does not have it, as much as Lelouch does not have it in this sense. Your understanding of the very definition you posted is weak. It does not matter if he believes in it himself, or if you believe in Suzaku on any level.

When Euphie died, he stopped pretending as much as he did, and he openly admitted that he wanted to kill Zero for revenge (something he would have never admitted before Euphie's death since it blatantly contradicts his own as well as Euphie's ideals). He even sold Lelouch to the emperor, something this "virtue" you speak of should not allow. There is a fundamental change in Suzaku's outlook. It is not simply about being more serious.

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-05-2008, 11:53 AM

You must have a very loose understanding of virtue then. Preaching against bloodshed while killing people is a fundamental contradiction. You may give the example of police who are sometimes forced to take the lives of criminals in the interest of protecting innocents, but Suzaku's case is clearly nothing of the sort. Please do not forget who he works for, as well as what they make/made him do.

What makes him a hypocrite is the fact that he thinks his way (this way) is much better, despite it being on the exact same level. He puts on a "false appearance of virtue", when he actually does not have it, as much as Lelouch does not have it in this sense. Your understanding of the very definition you posted is weak. It does not matter if he believes in it himself, or if you believe in Suzaku on any level.

When Euphie died, he stopped pretending as much as he did, and he openly admitted that he wanted to kill Zero for revenge (something he would have never admitted before Euphie's death since it blatantly contradicts his own as well as Euphie's ideals). He even sold Lelouch to the emperor, something this "virtue" you speak of should not allow. There is a fundamental change in Suzaku's outlook. It is not simply about being more serious.

I can clarify how I understand Suzaku's virtue with an example. Imagine a regular guy, we'll call Jake, who has this belief that bloodshed is wrong. Now Jake lives in a village, and his villagers are all defenseless. So, some murderer comes in, and starts slaughtering them. Jake wants to stop the murderer, but doesn't want to shed blood. So, Jake puts on some heavy armor, and stands in between the villagers and murderer. The murderers attacks are useless against Jake, and Jake stands there till the murderers done. Cute, ain't it? If Jake does not try to stop the murderer, and allows the bloodshed, he is a hypocrite.

Now, lets put the constraints that one would expect of reality. Jake's armor would have to be REAL heavy to be able to withstand all the murderers attacks if the murderer came properly equipped to murder. The murderer has two choices now, see if he can maneuver around Jake to get to the villagers, or leave, and come back with better weapons. The better the weapons, the heavier Jake's armor has to be to stop the weapons. Eventually, the murderer will be able to maneuver around Jake. It becomes clear that Jake cannot simply stand between the murderer and the villagers forever.

Jake has another option. He can simply subdue the murderer. Think about actual combat for a second. If you're in a fight, and you want to subdue your opponent, who is trying to kill you, there has to be a large differential in fighting ability between you and your opponent, and it has to favor you, because in subduing and not killing, you limit the offenses and defenses you're allowing to use, while your opponent is not. Otherwise, you get killed and you fail at subduing the opponent. If Jake has the odds stacked in his favor, great. But if he doesn't, he cannot subdue the opponent, and he will die. If Jake understands this, then he is a hypocrite to allow himself to die, because his death will not stop the bloodshed.

Jake has one last option. He can kill the murderer. This is easier than the other two, because the power it requires is less than the other two, and it may sometimes be impossible to acquire the power necessary for the other two options. You kill the murderer, the bloodshed stops with his own. If Jake knows the death of the murderer will stop the bloodshed, but Jake does not kill him (this being his best option after ruling out the other two for lack of power), then Jake is a hypocrite, and a coward might I add.

Now, let me remind you, Suzaku, while he said he was going into combat to kill Zero, he did not kill Zero. He in fact actually succeeded in subduing Zero, had all the opportunity in the world to kill him, but didn't. Instead, he tried to make good of a bad situation by using Zero to try and make his own vision of things come true. This turning in of Zero is in keeping with EVERYTHING he set out to do, exactly as he set out to do. If you say that he sold out a friend, remember, he thinks Zero maliciously used Euphie, via Geass, to slaughter Japanese, all in an effort advance his own agenda. They're no longer friends, and one who would do that, deserves death. Suzaku's ideals required that Zero be brought in. He did not act on the anger he showed when he said "I'm in this to kill zero". He acted consistantly with his ideals. In fact, look at what's happening right now. If Zero was gone, he'd have proceeded to choosing Japan as his protectorate, and ruling them justly under Brittania after he became knight 1 or whatever. He's THIS close to winning, while staying true to the very ideals he mentioned, even if they're under the constraints of reality.

One more thing. As far as has been shown, Suzaku has only killed people who raised arms against him. The people he killed, had arms raised, and if Suzaku wasn't there, they would have killed others. Suzaku's plan, without interruption from rebellion, is the best suited to minimize bloodshed. Lelouches plan is best suited to maximize it. According to the "Jake analogy" in the first few paragraphs, Suzaku can't sit by and let Zero do this.

One last edit: I do recall that Suzaku was ordered to slaughter a bunch of innocents civilians to prove his loyalty, but he never got to do it, something happened that caused him not to take part in it. So that part of his character actually never got tested. So I don't see a way to make him a hypocrite if we use the same standards that causes Lelouche to not be a hypocrite.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 12:11 PM

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-05-2008, 12:34 PM

You don't seem to understand what the meaning of fundamental contradiction is, but I won't explain it since it will only waste time.

Your examples are pointless. His ideal is/was never what you make it out to be. Please refer to the first few episodes of geass S1, and recheck what kind of person Suzaku made himself out to be.

I think it has been established a few episode threads before that what he did to Lelouch (selling him) is worse than simply killing him for a number of reasons. Please refer to them so that you may understand.

Also, do you really think that the overpowered Lancelot does not have the capability to disable opponents without killing them? If he really had the virtue of cherishing life, he would have taken the extra mile (and a very short mile that is, since not killing the pilot is quite easy in code geass, especially with the efficient eject mechanism of the knightmares), even risking his own life to do so. Suzaku has chosen to kill numerous people just because they do not agree with his ideals (I can give you numerous examples of this so don't even try to dispute it).

True they are armed, but that does not make them "wrong", unless disagreeing with Suzaku (and his master the empire) is considered wrong. You make it sound like everyone that has died in his hands are "enemies" or "evil". Code geass is not that kind of show.

If you say you still believe the stuff you were saying, then that simply means your understanding of virtue is incredibly loose, too much that it would apply to anyone, making anyone virtuous (since each person does have a personal, usually self-righteous reason for fighting). Because of this, it is a moot point to argue about Suzaku having it.

Ok, my personal understanding of the two is that they're both hypocritical. My whole argument is based on the fact that some people say Lelouche is hypocritical, while Suzaku is not, and some say Suzaku is hypocritical, and Lelouche is not. When I look into why they think this, what I find, is that they're using different standards to judge the two, based on a personal preference for the methods of either Suzaku, or Lelouche. I'm pointing out the flip side of the coin.

As far as Suzaku is concerned when it comes to fighting the Order of the Black Knight. His enemy is that Order. And that Order has shown that it has the Capability to destroy his lancelot. When you fight under the banner of some power, you're not viewed by your enemy as a single entity separate from that Order. You are in fact, and avatar of that Order. Suzaku would be a fool to go in fighting the Order of the black knight and not try to kill, because the Order has shown power enough to kill him. Example, Kallen's Mech to me is comparable to the Lancelot. I happen to think the difference is in the abilities of the pilots. If the Lancelot gets ambushed by some random mechs of the order, who's to say Kallen isn't laying in wait around one of those corners?

As far as me not understanding the fundamental contradiction you've mentioned, I do understand it, I really do. You're against blood being shed, so you ought not shed blood. It's simple really. But, I also understand these things: If you're against the shedding of innocent blood, you ought not allow it to continue. I understand this as well: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." What you can do, is limited by the power you have. Suzaku is in a "screwed if you do, but more screwed if you don't" situation. He's a hypocrite for fighting against the Order if you consider what his ideals are? He's a bigger hypocrite if he doesn't fight them. And by the previous paragraph, if he fights them, he should fight to kill. Also, let me assure you I know what his ideals are. Create a just society by following the rules of the current power, because this minimizes bloodshed, and this is exactly what I'm making it out to be. Suzaku said this himself in season 1, which btw, I just watched in its entirety last week, it's all fresh in my mind.

As far as turning Zero in being worse than killing him, I will check those threads to see what's said in there. I suspect that all the arguments I'll find will speak to Suzaku being an ass for betraying his friend. But nonetheless, his ideal is following the rules of the kingdom, gaining power that way, and establishing a just society. Apprehending and turning in the enemy of the kingdom (Zero in this case), is consistant with that ideal. Also, I really don't see what argument is going to stand against the fact that Suzaku and Lelouche were no longer friends from the moment he thought that Lelouche used the Geass to cause Euphie to massacre the japanese, all for the sake of continuing the rebellion. But don't worry, I'm going to check those threads right now.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 12:46 PM

DDBen

Mon, 05-05-2008, 02:08 PM

Ok, my personal understanding of the two is that they're both hypocritical. My whole argument is based on the fact that some people say Lelouche is hypocritical, while Suzaku is not, and some say Suzaku is hypocritical, and Lelouche is not. When I look into why they think this, what I find, is that they're using different standards to judge the two, based on a personal preference for the methods of either Suzaku, or Lelouche. I'm pointing out the flip side of the coin.

I'm sorry but I have to comment on this one. Who on earth has said that Suzaku isn't a Hypocrite aside from yourself with a completely nonsensical story about Jake?

Suzaku originally intended to be a good soldier at the very start when he ran into Lelouch in S1 at the start. Then he was used as a pawn for the death of Clovis and at that point he choose to go back to Britannia in order to follow his ideals and that good could come from changing things from within. He held fast to his ideals upto the death of Euphie. After that point he changed his methods from changing things by doing whats right to changing them by any means necessary. You can't even argue that with the scene of him going upto Italians(I think) demanding they surrender there country and then killing them for saying no. At that point there is no way at all to argue against him being a Hypocrite he's spent the last year killing innocent people to gain power for himself because he thinks nobody else can possibly manage to accomplish it.

Now Zero/Lelouch on the other hand hasn't done anything at any point to match the definition of a Hypocrite. I welcome any example you can come up with. Lelouch doesn't even attempt to make any excuses about leaving the final battle in S1 its just a fact the Japanese resistance needs Zero no matter what cost he comes with. Zero needs them to accomplish his goals but there goals are not his and thats been made clear. However he will give them what they want if they continue to help him as it benefits him anyway.

Basically put where is Zero/Lelouch actively contradicting himself or any of his goals with his actions? Give a example of that one because I certainly can't come up with one.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 02:14 PM

I believe Suzaku is too ignorant and that he actually believes the empire is correct in what they are doing. I mean, what other reason could he have not to give a damn about killing people in EU. Brittania initiated a war with them, which goes against Suzaku's beliefs about bloodshed and all that crap, but for some reason he just can't seem to care, instead he comes into the battle in EU and starts killing people arrogantly, saying their resistance is futile, making it sound like they are just some terrorist guerilla or something, which of course is totalt bullshit.

I think Suzaku's trouble lies very fundamentally with him not being able to see what will come from his actions. He never stops to think, in fact, he is happy not being allowed to think, only being used as a tool for death by the empire.

I think he only cares about Japan, but I think he only cares about Japan because it was embedded in his mind since he was a little boy, having the prime minister as a father telling him that the mother country is to be protected and cared for no matter what.

In other words, I don't think he knows what he cares about at all, it is only a thought in his head that he can't make heads or tails of. He has only been desperate to save one thing one time, and that was for Euphie, he has never shown that kind of desperation for his country, unlike Karen, a true believer of her country's rights.

The only thing I think Suzaku cares about now is revenge and to prove that he is correct (more so out of pride and hatred than out of anything else).

Never try to make Suzaku out to look like Kira from Gundam SEED, like Shinta said, fundamental contradiction. Kira stopped killing people in battle NO MATTER WHAT, he was willing to die to protect his way of life.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-05-2008, 03:43 PM

And it seems Milly misses Lloyd, while we can't be sure the reverse is true.
I would not be surprised in the least if we first see Lloyd having zero interest in Milly whatsoever (since he stated he really only wanted her for the dowry of the Ganymede Knightmare frame) and then he turns around and kisses her full on the lips, or grabs her around her very curvaceous waist, or similar in front of Cecile. This would invariably cause the usually shameless Milly to blush fiercely. Cecile might then smack him for being ill mannered.

@KrayZ33:

I don't know why but Kallen is nothing more than a sex object for me with all the fanservice about her.

Kallen has always been a sex object since episode 1 of season 1. Just think about it.

- Her basic outfit was a double-sided keyhole jacket with a tube top underneath, short shorts, and leggings.
- Lelouch saw her naked in the shower.
- Upgrade to the Black Knights uniform. Practically non-existent skirt.
- Give her the Gurren Mk II. Now she's posed leaning heavily over the control seat (which seems to be designed after a street motorcycle, perhaps alluding to another huge fetish in Japan...auto show girls). Either way, granting an excuse to have her pose in an overt sexual manner.
- Give her the skin tight "plug suit" from Raksharta.
- Suzaku sees her naked.
- Season 2 begins, she's wearing a bunny suit of all things. I'm would not be surprised if the entire casino sequence and "punishment" of the Elevens was written solely for granting an excuse to make her wear that.

And so on and so forth...

Yukimura

Mon, 05-05-2008, 03:52 PM

I've always had the impression Suzaku's ultimate goal/ideal was the elimination of armed conflict with him in a position of power and authority in Britannia. While it's true that in a world without armed conflict there wouldn't be as much meaningless murder, I don't think Suzaku has ever had any qualms about reaching this ideal by killing or otherwise harming anyone who would stand in the way (see 10 year old shooting father for not bowing to Britannia). For whatever reason I don't think he places a higher value on anything than he does on peace (i.e. the lack of conflict) with loyalty to Britannia a close second. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are things that one might think a good 'virtuous' person would value but I don't believe any of these things matter to Suzaku if they get in the way of peace or if upholding them would cause him to be disloyal to Britannia.

For Suzaku killing someone wouldn't be bad because it deprives that person of their life, it would only be bad if that killing pissed someone else off and made them want to escalate a conflict or if Britannia didn't want that person killed. Britannians randomly going through ghettos and shooting civillians would probably not be in line with Suzaku's ideal but at the same time, as long as those people didn't fight back I don't sense anything 'hypocritical' about him not having an interest in stopping it. By the same token if the survivors of such attacks chose to form an organized military organization to fight against Britannia rather than be subjugated (and shot at) it would be well within the lines of his ideals to try and cripple or destroy that organization, because if there is no structure to a resistance it is much less dangerous and less likely to cause large scale conflict.

EDIT: I just recalled in the first ep he was dislyoal to Britannia by refusing to kill C.C. and Lelouch and got shot for it. I can't think of any other incidents where he went against direct orders from Britannia after that though so maybe that changed him.

As much as I think it's will only make things worse I'll throw in my take on the hypocrisy fiasco.

If my assessment of Suzaku's core ideology is accurate then Suzaku would only be a hypocrite if he were to act in a manner that invited or expanded a conflict when doing nothing would have made the conflict end more quickly or there wouldn't have be a conflict in the first place, OR if he willfully disobeyed Britannia in order to further some other goal.

During season one Suzaku would most often arrive after a battle had already been engaged and was dragging on with Britannia not able to advance. He would then act to cripple the enemies ability to continue the battle as quickly as possible, because his goal was for the conflict to be over with Britannia the victor (earns him points). The reasons the battle was being fought or the lives of the people fighting never seemed to have much bearing on his actions. Also, if you look at his track record for mid-combat diplomacy, he only seems willing to talk to people if he realizes he can't just overwhelm them and quickly destroy their ability to fight. Only when he recognizes that the fight could drag on longer if he just keeps fighting weill he try to convince the opponent to stand down on their own. If he can just destroy their ability to do battle then he's fine with that and in fact it seems to be his first preference.

In recent memory the closest I've seen Suzaku come to hypocrisy (meaning acting against his beliefs as I perceive them) is when he was fighting the EU. I still don't consider this hypocritical because while the EU didn't start that fight and were only engaged in conflict as a response to the aggression of Britannia, Suzaku arrived after the battle had already started. Faced with an ongoing battle where Britannia is not overwhelmingly winning I think he would be keeping to his ideals by trying to stop the other side from fighting as soon as possible, by any means necessary. One could argue that ending that particular battle only meant there would be more battles between the Britanians and the EU as they advanced further into Europe, however part of Suzaku's ideology seems to be that Britannia must be victorious and as we know, he has next to no foresight into the collateral consequences of his actions. Though I suppose it's possible Suzaku figured getting ass-raped so soundly might convince the EU to just give up. In any case, destroying the EU forces was something that furthered his ideals (as I perceive them) so I don't see it as hypocrisy.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-05-2008, 05:17 PM

Hah, I can't believe I didn't notice this the first time:

At 7:37, While the other members of the student council are guessing at Zero's identity and trying to pry it out of Suzaku, Shirley makes her guess. And she's dead on. A combination of the brain warping Lelouch did to her and the Emperor's Geass? Though it would be true that Shirley didn't know Lelouch was actually one of the Princes.

Also, at 13:40, we get a hint at the fate of Lelouch's "duration test" victim. The last mark has only a single scratch in the wall. We can assume she was forcibly removed from the Academy in mid-stroke. Perhaps she is in a mental facility back in Britannia.

EDIT:

On a far more serious tone, what could be Rollo's Geass' weakness?

And secondly, at 13:36, Rivalz finds one of Nina's boxes. But it says "Beardface!! This is mine!! Don't touch - don't open it!! Throw it out and I'll Kill you!!"

1. Who is "beardface"? No one in the council has a beard. I can't think of anyone else at the school that would have it.
2. What is in there?

She's turned into a huge bitch. Nina was generally rather sweet and quiet, not quite like that. I guess Euphie's death changed her in lots of ways too.

I have no clue who beardface would be, but there are two very interesting options for what happens to be inside the box. First, it could really be Nina's. In that case, it could have all her table-masturbating materials featuring Euphiemia pictures and possible a small stool for the occasional boost. More incriminating, it could be filled with general paraphernalia from her student council days. Namely, pictures with everyone.

Including, of course...Nunnally.

Or...given the nasty tone of the box, it could also be Kallen's. But they all seem to remember her being a member of the Black Knights, so I'm going to lean towards the former.

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-05-2008, 06:09 PM

OMFG. I wanted this to stop but I cannot stand not replying to the nonsense above. Very short reply though.

Not fighting and not killing are two different things.

See episode 3 (or was it 2) of R2 and tell me if what Suzaku did to those obviously inferior knightmares (he said so himself) was not needless killing. It was practically a massacre, when he could have disabled them easily.

You do not understand the concept of fundamental contradiction. That means YOU CANNOT KILL if you want your ideal to remain true. What you propose is not the ideal that Suzaku originally went after (note Lancelot's first appearance - no enemy pilot was killed), but a more pragmatic version that he adopted as the show continued (which he donned while maintaining his belief of his moral high ground that would have applied initially but not later).

You are having a heyday throwing around the word hypocrite aren't you? Please don't forget to keep it in context, meaning consistent with what people meant when they said it, not what you mean by it so you can prove your point.

Check the threads. Your suspicions are wrong.

EDIT: If we agree that this is his ideal, how can you justify his actions I noted above?

EDIT: If this doesn't make you understand, nothing will (which means do not expect a reply no matter how silly your following posts become).

On a side note, and a hopeful change of topic, does Suzaku's beliefs extend to other people, or only to the Japanese? Does he even value people outside his country?

Alright, I went ahead and read the threads you mentioned, I went ahead and took your suggestion of reviewing the episodes in the first season. Here's what I found. Concerning Suzaku's ideals, he never once said his goal isn't to kill people. He said this in episode 1, between 16 minutes and 41 seconds into the episode, and 16 minutes and 51 seconds of the GG sub: “He is merely a civilian who has been caught up in this...I can't shoot a civilian like him (Lelouche)”. To this date, he has yet to shoot a civilian.

Next, in episode 4 (I'm always referring to the GG subs) he said, at the 20:51 mark: “ That's why I'm going to change Brittania into a worthwhile country from the inside out...Even so, those are the rules (in response to lelouche saying he's going to get shafted if he returns for a trial), if I don't go, the accusations against the Elevens and honored Britanians will begin.”

Ok, this is straight forward, he wants the Elevens and honored Britannians to suffer as little as possible, so he follows the rules of the current governing power, Britannia in order to minimize the suffering of the Honored Britannians and the Elevens. Nothing he's done so far has increased the suffering of either the elevens or the britannians, unless it was in relation to fighting the Order of the Black Knights. This he does because of the rules. I think Yukimura is right on the money concerning this. And the rules he follows, he does so because of his ideals, his respect for the lives of those not in conflict.

You mentioned that Suzaku, in the beginning didn't kill when using the Lancelot. Ok, fine. Considering observing that says that Suzaka does value the lives of the other soldiers he fought. Fine, note though, he never said (and I just went through season one in it's entirety) that he was going to do things without killing at all. That means him not killing those soldiers (who at the time weren't officially part of the Order mind you, which is another point to be made, they were not under anyone's banner) was a bonus for them, and not a single one of Suzuku's ideals made that something he HAD to do to not be seen as a hypocrite. In fact it was naïve of him to act that way, and it was something he needed to grow out of, and did. I already mentioned in my previous post why it was naïve. This shows that he was conflicted, not hypocritical According to the standard that you use to judge lelouche that is.

I'm having a heyday throwing the word hypocrite around? Why don't people say what they mean instead of butchering the english language? And, I did respond according to what the posters meant. And that response, once again, show that they use one standard to measure Lelouche, and another to measure Suzaku. Let me give you an example of this inconsistant (hypocritical?) use of standards that I've been able to uncover on account of your suggestion to view the old threads.

The following quote is from THIS thread:

What makes him a hypocrite is the fact that he thinks his way (this way) is much better, despite it being on the exact same level. He puts on a "false appearance of virtue", when he actually does not have it, as much as Lelouch does not have it in this sense. Your understanding of the very definition you posted is weak. It does not matter if he believes in it himself, or if you believe in Suzaku on any level.

The following quote is from the OLD thread, code geass season 1:

Lelouch is not a hypocrite. If anything, he is too accepting of his ways even at the expense of his conscience. Suzaku fools himself into thinking he is doing the right thing while his actions say otherwise. Lelouch may be a liar, but at least he doesnt lie to himself. Suzaku may be "honest", but since he lies to himself, he is practically fooling everyone else as well.

Oh, and Lelouch doesnt agree with "might makes right". He is changing the world precisely because he wants to change that mindset. But he realizes that using power is the only real way to effect that change. He should know the irony there, but realistically, its the only way (with the information he has). Suzaku is just a fool who cant go against the system. Heck, he was about to kill himself with Zero once (which should go against his pacifist ideals and "good nature") just because he was ordered to.

More than being a hypocrite, I guess Suzaku is so irritating because he is a naive idiot.

So, in the old thread, the fact that Lelouche is not lying to himself, and having his beliefs be consistent with his actions is good enough to Judge Lelouche by. But, when I show that Suzaku believes the same, and he's consistent the same way, all of a sudden that standard no longer matters? THIS is what I'm talking about. It's not fair. And that's not me crying like a little girl either. It is not a proper way of forming a conclusion. If it appeals to your emotions and your sense of morality, fine, but it has no place in a logical debate.

@DDBen: In order for you to call any of them a hypocrite, you have to have a basis. I just showed in the preceeding paragraphs, that the basis you used is not good enough. He didn't change his methods after Euphie died. His method, is to follow the the rules of the empire with the belief that this is the best way to minimize civilian casualties. It always has been. There are times when he was conflicted yes, like when he was told to shoot Lelouche, and when he was told to massacre civilians. To this day, he's done neither. When he does, I'll revisit whether he's a hypocrite or not. The EU are not civilians, those he killed were a fighting force. And this was all under Britannia's orders, which again, he'd resolved to follow. Also, he never mentioned that he thought there'd be no bloodshed his way. He just thought there'd be less bloodshed of NON-COMBATTANTS doing things his way.

Give me a basis that you can use to sustain your argument that Suzaku is a hypocrite, and I guarantee you I can use that very same basis to show that Lelouche is one too.

Edit: w00t! 1000th post! I'm quite happy it wasn't in a Naruto forum.

MFauli

Mon, 05-05-2008, 06:13 PM

I don't know why but Kallen is nothing more than a sex object for me with all the fanservice about her.

Is there a episode yet where she doesn't show her ass or boobs yet? They could do it at least in a more appealing way like they did with C.C. @ the container where she sat on the handrail.. Season 2 is really very much about fanservice 8[
Well its not that I dislike to see C.C, Shirley or even Kallen (especially the first 2) but it is a bit too much right now,especially with Kallen...

Sorry, but there CAN NOT be enough :-/
Man, if Lelouch used his Geass to its best, this series could have become an awsome hentai-series...lol....no, serious...or lol?

@episode 5:

Overall a bit slow, but as someone said, very nice setup-episode for whats coming next. And i hate Suzaku. Not that i ever liked him, but i hate him now for putting Lelouch into such a pinch. Wow.

RyougaZell

Mon, 05-05-2008, 06:37 PM

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 08:23 PM

It seems people disagree with what Suzaku's ideal is, and that is fine, as long as it is acknowledged as Yuki did.

@Uchiha - Lelouch may be a liar, but at least he doesnt lie to himself. Suzaku may be "honest", but since he lies to himself, he is practically fooling everyone else as well.

There is a very clear and consistent logical standard used on both of these. Are you like, blind? This is based on the second definition you gave before. I can argue that even the first applies, but that would be just a waste of time. The difference is what we believe Suzaku's goals to be, not what logical standard is used. Sigh...

Yukimura

Mon, 05-05-2008, 08:57 PM

In my post I neglected to add my opinion on the matter of my perception of Suzaku's ideology. I just want to be clear I think Suzaku has a terrible ideology and I think he's a pile of shit for being comfortable disregarding the hopes, dreams, and lives of all the people who aren't willing to patiently wait for HIM to get into a position to help them.

Anyway, I'm far more interested in the wall and the fact that the last mark was incomplete. If she was killed or somehow taken away she would likely have completed the last mark then there would be no more after she was no longer able to make them. The fact that she stopped mid way through a stroke gives the impression Lelouch's geass may have [had] a finite time limit. Whether it would matter if it's that long is debatable, but the implications do offer potential twists later.

DDBen

Mon, 05-05-2008, 09:59 PM

@Uchiha Barles

You know I wrote out some massive post to reply to you but in the end decided its not worth continuing that discussion. I simply disagree with your points and your reasoning. Suzaku has a constantly changing set of goals and reasoning behind them its all to make himself feel better about killing his own father. The fact is if at any point he admits he's wrong then he has nothing left and will crumble all that he is and exists for is a lie made up in his own head. The only person he's ever helped by following the path he's chosen is the Emperor.

Anyway, I'm far more interested in the wall and the fact that the last mark was incomplete. If she was killed or somehow taken away she would likely have completed the last mark then there would be no more after she was no longer able to make them. The fact that she stopped mid way through a stroke gives the impression Lelouch's geass may have [had] a finite time limit. Whether it would matter if it's that long is debatable, but the implications do offer potential twists later.

Hmm this is a interesting point. If the Geass did wear off after a certain amount of time its also possible that after that time limit Lelouch May be able to use his Geass on the same person a second time. The limit from before could theoretically be the result of the command having to be deleted by waiting out the duration before it can be used again. It seems there are a bit to many people around Lelouch has no ability to use his Geass on and I fully expect it to mutate again before the school arc ends.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-05-2008, 10:52 PM

True. His geass may evolve into something that can be canceled at his will, but that might be a bit too overpowered.

David75

Tue, 05-06-2008, 12:11 AM

I did notice your three points.
Shirley, the box and the scratched wall.

The wall was a very nice detail, specially since it was discussed some episodes ago, here on gotwoot.

But I kinda got lazy after seeing pages and pages of full essays on Suzaku's hypocresy vs Lelouch's hypocresy. <--- the fact remains that we like Lelouch and we don't like Suzaku. End of story.
I wonder who were the people Lelouch Geassed with a "no time limit" order...

Shirley is one of them, isn't she? I just don't remember the time lapse beetween the guinea pig order and Shirley's...
I hope it's not a way of telling us Euphie could be back.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 05-06-2008, 02:23 AM

I wonder who were the people Lelouch Geassed with a "no time limit" order...

Shirley is one of them, isn't she? I just don't remember the time lapse beetween the guinea pig order and Shirley's...
I hope it's not a way of telling us Euphie could be back.

Guinea pig order? As in the one Lelouch gave to test the duration of his Geass? I'm not understanding your post completely, but I there's no way Euphie's coming back using Lelouch's Geass.

David75

Tue, 05-06-2008, 03:52 AM

Guinea pig order? As in the one Lelouch gave to test the duration of his Geass? I'm not understanding your post completely, but I there's no way Euphie's coming back using Lelouch's Geass.

Guinea Pig: Girl making cross marks. She gives an idea of how many days Lelouch's Geass lasts.

Lelouch Geassed Shirley to make her forget he is Zero and even she was in love with him.
So that Geass order will someday vanish. Remains the Empero one I guess.

Euphie: Are we totally sure she's dead? it seems so, but if for some reason she isn't, the Geass she received from Lelouch will also come to an end. On a side note, Cornelia being absent could also be explained with her taking care of the heavily injured but not dead Euphie... as cheesy as it seems.

To me, a lot of stress has been put on the time Lelouch's Geass lasts. I do not see why this time limit would not be used.

Ryllharu

Tue, 05-06-2008, 04:10 AM

Euphie: Are we totally sure she's dead? it seems so, but if for some reason she isn't, the Geass she received from Lelouch will also come to an end. On a side note, Cornelia being absent could also be explained with her taking care of the heavily injured but not dead Euphie... as cheesy as it seems.

To me, a lot of stress has been put on the time Lelouch's Geass lasts. I do not see why this time limit would not be used.
This is a Sunrise series, but there are limits. That Mai Hime/Otome simply refused to kill anyone off is one thing, that countless Gundam pilots have suffered direct hits, float into place and are engulfed by pink explosion clouds only to miraculously survive is another.

But Euphie was shot in the chest, received a sucking chest wound, bleed all over the place (and Suzaku), received immediate highly advanced medical attention, only to see the doctors shake their head and have Suzaku by her side as she grew pale, lost her sight, went cold, and died.

It safe to say she's dead. Now, I do see an increased likelyhood that Lelouch will use a body double of her to fuck with Suzaku now that he's used Nunnally against him, but that wouldn't be Euphie.

-----------------------------------
The time limit question is interesting. Still, Lelouch's Geass does permanent brain damage to the target (the pattern switch animation) which is why he could only use it once. So far, it seems that everyone's Geass has a weakness (Mao's being the need for concentration that was used against him and not being able to shut it off).

Though there were also the guards that noticed and reported over the radios a "suspicious person" who happened to be our wall-carver during the school festival last season (eps 22), so they may have pulled her then. She was in mid-carve then.

insane

Tue, 05-06-2008, 06:56 AM

i hope suzaku dies.....

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-06-2008, 06:59 AM

@insane - Absolute agreement.

@Ryll - Your idea sounds more plausible, though I still think there is something behind it, since geass doesn't really show such details for no reason.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 05-06-2008, 07:34 AM

i hope suzaku dies.....

Funnily enough, I have a feeling that Lelouch is the one that will die, if one is to die. He's by far my favourite character, but I just sudden imagined him dying after all his revenges (emperor dies), creating The United States of Japan, while Suzaku takes on a role in Brittania that lets him settle conflict.

Life goes on. C.C. works as a pizza lady, and Kallen lives a quiet life. Zero lives on in people's hearts and his stories are passed down like a legend, but only a handful of people remember there was once a genius Brittanian student. His name was Lelouch Lamperouge.<Insert OP>

Now, feel free to burn down my vision. It's based on no evidence whatsoever.

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-06-2008, 07:49 AM

That's like the most terrible tragedy that can befall Lelouch. He never wanted to be a hero, unlike Suzaku. He only wanted to live peacefully with Nunally. Take that away and he will turn to dust.

animus

Tue, 05-06-2008, 08:27 AM

It's a Sunrise series so they'll probably be in cahoots one day. I just hope it doesn't take that path, or Suzaku just dies shortly after.

RyougaZell

Tue, 05-06-2008, 08:38 AM

If Nunnally were to die... I wonder if Lelouch would continue as 'Zero' to extract revenge against the Emperor and Suzaku...

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-06-2008, 08:39 AM

He will probably break, unless C.C. can manage to piece him back together and be his raison de etre.

David75

Tue, 05-06-2008, 08:47 AM

I wonder if C.C. can really be the "raison d'être" of someone. Zero isn't even interrested in women (or men), or he doesn't look like he his.

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-06-2008, 12:08 PM

She is MY raison d'etre. Unfortunately her's is pizza.

Shinji Ikari

Tue, 05-06-2008, 12:15 PM

I think he actually cares about C.C. I have no way of knowing this, it's just that sometimes they talk very affectionately.

Kraco

Tue, 05-06-2008, 12:36 PM

I think C.C. must be the loneliest character in Code Geass. And I reckon it's because of that she sneaks into the school grounds as well, against Lelouch's wishes. She doesn't really have anybody else than Lelouch, and their relationship had a pretty rocky beginning as well. And it's not made any easier by the fact C.C. basically needed to find a person who would be ready and willing to commit heinous acts if needed. Needless to say such a person isn't necessarily a prime candidate for a real friendship (or more). Also, C.C. was kept hidden from most people most of the time, and she didn't exactly have an official standing. She was just an important person to Lelouch but that's about it, and noone aside from Nunnally actually may be really sure a person like Lelouch cares for them till the end.

David75

Tue, 05-06-2008, 12:37 PM

I think he actually cares about C.C. I have no way of knowing this, it's just that sometimes they talk very affectionately.
Although to me C.C seems affectionate and Lelouch always escapes with a few words of irony/joke. But I may be wrong.

Seems like CC tries to be like a mother to the one she gave Geass, both Mao and Lelouch had no parents (well Lelouch has a father, but not that it's a dear one...) . But I may be overinfluenced by Mao's arc

DDBen

Tue, 05-06-2008, 02:34 PM

You guys do realize that C.C. has been watching Lelouch for a very long time its not like she just randomly met him and gave him power when she came out of the "gas container".

Before that scene in the very beginning of episode one C,C, is shown watching a young Suzaku and Lelouch climbing a small hill with sunflowers at the very start of the war. Fact is she needs specifically Lelouch not someone who looks or acts like him but specifically Lelouch and she can't let him die.

It could be because she needs someone of his mothers bloodline or it could be something completely different. Its clear over that time she has developed some level of feelings for him though. Lelouch on the other hand seems leery of her and is just using her as another piece in his game his worry about her is based on his secret getting out and needing her power more then anything else.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 05-06-2008, 03:33 PM

Thing is...would Lelouch abandon his plans for C.C. like he did for Nunnaly?

Ryllharu

Tue, 05-06-2008, 03:45 PM

DDBen, I don't think it is that specific, but she certainly has known Marianne at the absolute latest sometime after Marianne's death. I can't even begin to speculate what connection the two of them have (though I've guessed they were both "witches" of the same religion we've seen that shares C.C.'s scar).

It's very possible that C.C. has known Marianne for some time before that. I believe that is the connection that brought her to Japan overlooking the two boys climb the hill. Whether it is as specific as you say and has to do with bloodline or is far simpler and only has to do with her acquaintance to Marianne, whatever that may be, only cliffhangers can tell!

--------------------
On the issue of CC and Lelouch being lovers, it's about as close as you can get to being that way. There was that scene where Kaguya came bursting in to declare herself as Zero's eventual wife, and he politely rebuked her by saying he's made a deal with the devil, and there's no way he could marry a princess.

Before that, there are the countless awkward scenes where Kallen stumbles in to seeing CC and Zero close, or CC revealed as taking Zero's place, or Nunnally asking if they are going out and CC answering in a very purposefully misunderstood manner.

More recently, Kallen has seen exactly how far she was from Zero all this time. Lelouch was constantly deceiving her, still doesn't tell her everything. If the scenes between her and CC in the consulate show anything other than a little comedy relief and fanservice, it has revealed to Kallen that CC is the only person Lelouch trusts completely and tells everything to.

Trust is of course, a huge part of the most intimate of relationships. That's a pretty big threat to Kallen. She's come closer to him while keeping her distance (saying she's doing it for Zero, not Lelouch, but still warming to him), but she still is so far from where CC stands.

There's only two possibilities for their relationship. Either they are lovers, Lelouch has leaned that way by declaring himself the warlock to her witch, etc. The alternative is an older sister/mother relationship, as CC had with Mao and occasionally crops up with the way she comforts Lelouch or rebukes his foolishness.

Still, I'd lean towards the lovers angle. One scene in the last season where Lelouch had just killed Euphie and is a little distraught, CC lays him down on her lap. That could be conveyed as the mother/sister relationship, but the words during that scene lean far more heavily towards lovers.

There's a huge amount going on in the dynamic of Kallen <> Lelouch <> C.C., and that's part of what makes this series so interesting. The complexity has really gone up since the second season began with Kallen knowing so much more.

DDBen

Tue, 05-06-2008, 04:31 PM

@Ryllharu

I think your ignoring Shirley to much in what your saying. Fact is Lelouch was devastated when he had to erase her memory and at that point he considered what could have been between him and Shirley. At that point nothing could be done about it and shortly after his memory was modified. Now once again its fairly clear Shirley has developed feelings for Lelouch again so there is some potential for that relationship to take place as well.

I wouldn't look to deeply into Lelouch refusing the advances of a 12 year old(or however old she is) before going into a battle though. Plus she went by Godess "megumi" not Princess (Hime) as in Godess of victory. His statement was he already has a contract with a Akuma(Devil) and as things stand now he can't get along with Gods(Kami). It was just a fancy play on words in order to tell her he's not interested in being her husband.

Episode 23 DVD time stamp 18:00-18:26

I do agree Kallen is definitely interested at this point at least in Zero if not Lelouch. C.C. definitely has a interest in him as she really doesn't have a wide range of choices for men and she asked him in season one to call her name like a lover would when they were in the cave after he treated her wound. I don't think Lelouch is romantically considering any of them though as he seems more concerned about his personal goals and I retain the only woman that has made him stop and think about her like that is Shirley.

animus

Tue, 05-06-2008, 04:38 PM

Lelouch is a siscon.

Kraco

Tue, 05-06-2008, 04:54 PM

I retain the only woman that has made him stop and think about her like that is Shirley.

I wouldn't estimate Shirley that high. She was basically Lelouch's girl in the eyes of the others before anything had happened, before Lelouch became Zero, before C.C. or anything. You could say she might have been his girl for real if nothing in the series had ever happened and he would have lived a normal life with the rebellion alive only in his dreams. However, that's quite an empty point and I reckon any interest and feelings he might have had toward Shirley were born of nostalgia.

Edit: 5000 posts! OMG. I am a spam spam spam poster!

Ryllharu

Tue, 05-06-2008, 05:27 PM

Gratz Kraco! I'm barely over half way there, and I've been around for a year and a half longer!

@Ryllharu

I think your ignoring Shirley to much in what your saying. Fact is Lelouch was devastated when he had to erase her memory and at that point he considered what could have been between him and Shirley. At that point nothing could be done about it and shortly after his memory was modified. Now once again its fairly clear Shirley has developed feelings for Lelouch again so there is some potential for that relationship to take place as well.

I wouldn't look to deeply into Lelouch refusing the advances of a 12 year old(or however old she is) before going into a battle though. Plus she went by Godess "megumi" not Princess (Hime) as in Godess of victory. His statement was he already has a contract with a Akuma(Devil) and as things stand now he can't get along with Gods(Kami). It was just a fancy play on words in order to tell her he's not interested in being her husband.

Episode 23 DVD time stamp 18:00-18:26

I do agree Kallen is definitely interested at this point at least in Zero if not Lelouch. C.C. definitely has a interest in him as she really doesn't have a wide range of choices for men and she asked him in season one to call her name like a lover would when they were in the cave after he treated her wound. I don't think Lelouch is romantically considering any of them though as he seems more concerned about his personal goals and I retain the only woman that has made him stop and think about her like that is Shirley.
No need to quote a timestamp, I was paraphrasing anyway. Like you said, it's not that important. While you are absolutely right on Kaguya, I don't think I was underestimating Shirley, I was completely disregarding her on purpose.

As Kraco also pointed out, she was "Lelouch's girl" to the views of the Council members. Milly was happily messing with their love lives playing matchmaker. Shirely was completely fabricating a love triangle with Lelouch and Kallen, since he was approaching her more often for simple reasons or to check that his identity wasn't revealed.

Even though she was mindraped relatively early, I don't think she really compared anywhere in terms of emotional/relationship proximity that Kallen and C.C. did at similar periods.

Shirley had a simple infatuation for Lelouch, and while some of the twists were interesting, like when she called herself disgusting (paraphrase) for using her father's death to earn sympathy and a kiss from Lelouch, she just doesn't compare. Lelouch was hurt that he had to do that to her, but I'm sure he would have brushed her aside sooner or later.

Kallen on the other hand, got a utterly blind devotion to Zero. She would have done anything for him, and was obsessively proud of being the captain of his personal guard. She took the role incredibly serious. Even in this episode, she asked Lelouch if he really wanted her to stay in that position. That part is still at the forefront.

Only since the second season started, she has had to come to terms with a person she thought was an asshole for some of his views in the colony when they were together (ref. Refrain episode with Kallen's mother) and her beloved idol who she dreamed to get closest to. She was just as jealous of C.C. then as she is now. So now Kallen has a twisted little issue in her head. Perhaps Lelouch is far more worthy than she ever used to think he was. In addition, that distance imposed by his "secret identity" is now gone. While nowhere near as close to him as C.C. is, Kallen is still close enough to her amazing idol Zero that he feels comfortable without his helmet around her. That makes her the Black Knight he trusts the most. In turn giving her a little boost on her imaginary love scale. The question still remains, does she distrust Lelouch for lying to her more than she loves Zero and the faith/trust the revealed Lelouch has now placed in her?

While Shirley is interesting, she's still just a swimsuit-wearing diversion. I thought she was a lot more interesting when mindraped, but feverishly wondering why she had written a letter saying not only that Zero was Lelouch, but that for some reason, she was deeply in love with him. That Shirely was pulled in two different directions the same way Kallen is now. In her mind, how could she possibly have no idea who this person is, but somehow have written a letter revealing how torn she was over him?

I was a little disappointed finding out that she was back to normal. It probably comes as a relief to Lelouch, but it still makes it just a mindless, infatuated school girl romance.

That's why I say she is irrelevant.

RyougaZell

Tue, 05-06-2008, 06:19 PM

I wouldn't look to deeply into Lelouch refusing the advances of a 12 year old(or however old she is) before going into a battle though. Plus she went by Godess "megumi" not Princess (Hime) as in Godess of victory. His statement was he already has a contract with a Akuma(Devil) and as things stand now he can't get along with Gods(Kami). It was just a fancy play on words in order to tell her he's not interested in being her husband.

Uhh... only comment is about the age...

When Lelouch and Nunally arrived at Japan, back when they were kids, they saw both Suzaku and Kaguya... and Kaguya looked about Nunnally's age at least. She ain't a kid... she's just not tall LOL.

How many years has it been since that? 8 years?

DDBen

Tue, 05-06-2008, 06:19 PM

Wait why on earth would you assume that Shirley doesn't know Lelouch is Zero? No matter what was removed about Nannaly the fact is at the end of the previous season she knew exactly who he was and nobody else knew that she knew that much specifically so there is no reason for that to have changed. Add in her "guess" that Zero might be a lost Prince in R2 and I would say Shirley is going to be a lot more relevant then your giving her credit for. Also remember the student council still knows of Kallen and that she was in the Black Knights. For that to be true the events of the Black Knights taking over the school couldn't have been removed from there minds as without a wanted poster they have no other way they could have discovered that information.

Uhh... only comment is about the age...

When Lelouch and Nunally arrived at Japan, back when they were kids, they saw both Suzaku and Kaguya... and Kaguya looked about Nunnally's age at least. She ain't a kid... she's just not tall LOL.

How many years has it been since that? 8 years?

They did? I don't remember that at all have a time stamp by any chance?

Ryllharu

Tue, 05-06-2008, 06:49 PM

The way she's acting now certainly seems to account for her not remembering that Lelouch was Zero.

She was suspicious as hell about Lelouch after she found that letter. In addition, she was always shocked that Milly and Rivalz kept implying that she was being cold to Lelouch for some reason, while she believed that she barely even knew who he was. When he held them all as hostages, Shirley went right after him. With him coming back, she should have been just as suspicious.

Despite the fact that Zero was declared "dead" she still should not have disregarded her own handwriting.

In R2 episode 3, starting at 17:37, Shirley goes into how she's like to ride a cable car, etc, all the things Lelouch blocked out of her memory. He recalls all the events and then brings up his renewed hatred for the Emperor for not only messing with his memories, but Shirley's, Milly's, and Rivalz's as well.

(Before you counter with "The line actually says 'my fault for Shirley....and the president and Rivalz, their memories being manipulated by others like that.' so you're totally wrong Ryllharu etc, etc" it is open to interpretation that he is including Shirley into that subset, and her lack of suspicion towards him supports that.)

--

Now, I'm not saying she won't remember all these things later on. In fact, with the "guess" to Zero's identity that you and I have both remarked on, coupled with what I believe Nina's box contains (photos of Nunnally with the Council members), it seems very likely.

In the same way that C.C. touched Lelouch (though...she is special) it's possible that seeing photos of Nunnally may break the Emperor's rewrite on the three Council members. If not that, it may make them suspicious enough to supplant the false memories with real ones. We don't know enough about the Emperor's Geass to be sure, since Lelouch gained back all his old ones in addition to the fakes...or again, that could be mostly due to C.C.

If that does happen, Shirley will go right back to being suspicious as hell, which will make her very interesting once again, but will completely destroy any chances she has of having a relationship with Lelouch, which is what we had been discussing.

---------------------------

As for the young Kaguya, the flashback is in season 1, eps 23, 6:37 when she remarks that they finally meet.

DDBen

Tue, 05-06-2008, 09:12 PM

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-06-2008, 10:18 PM

The Kaguya offer is a political one. It is good for building trust and morale among the people. That is where the importance lies, since Zero actually declined the offer and chose the witch/devil, with no political (or any for that matter, since C.C. would stay even if he married the princess) advantage whatsoever.

Let us not forget that Lelouch is tsundere. Considering this, he definitely has feelings for C.C. This has been shown numerous times, and since it hasn't been mentioned yet, some examples are his reaction when C.C. pretended to go with Mao (which is odd because it is technically less trouble for him if he avoids a fight with a geass user) and the renewal of the contract from his end (which is not necessary if he only wanted C.C. as an ally).

Still, this is not up to the level of how he feels for Nunnally, but that is because of the time they have spent together. Lelouch also has an inherent bias towards relationships that has existed before he has decided on his revenge ie. Suzaku (effectively shutting everyone out except Nunnally).

oyabun

Sun, 05-11-2008, 10:16 AM

I removed the link, The torrent was fake, I'm sorry for those who downloded the torrent.

David75

Sun, 05-11-2008, 02:25 PM

[Chihiro] Code Geass Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 06 [H264][3128AD71] mkv (http://www.mininova.org/get/1399996)

Real ep this time. HD.

Nice development and fights

NeoCybercoin

Sun, 05-11-2008, 03:10 PM

GG Code Geass R2 Ep 6 (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/%5Bgg%5D_Code_Geass_R2_-_06_%5BF639A14B%5D.mkv.torrent)

GG is out aswell =D

Yukimura

Sun, 05-11-2008, 03:42 PM

After watching this ep I feel a strange urge to go buy some model kits...

I think all the flashy Gurren Nishiki awesomeness was to distract us from the fact that the plot advanced maybe 10 centimeters in this ep. But who cares about plot when you have super special awesome submarines, mid air combination/transformations (gotta admit that was pretty nice), random ignoble deaths of high level BK's and massive plot skips (school->aerial assault).

RyougaZell

Sun, 05-11-2008, 04:53 PM

Wow... I want to kick Nunnally after that episode... at least she did follow Lelouch's request... and very good timing on the part of Rollo there.

Kallen rocked with the Gurren this time... scratch that... she owned them. Too bad she did not stop to destroy any of those three rounds, since her mission was to recover Lelouch.

Next episode looks very promising according to the preview.

animus

Sun, 05-11-2008, 05:02 PM

-1 for Kallen not killing Suzaku, =(

Ryllharu

Sun, 05-11-2008, 05:06 PM

Kallen sure pissed Anya off by messing with her Virtue...err..Mordred. Anya has otherwise been a completely forgettable and boring character. The jackass in the jet fighter at least has some personality.

Though I have to say I'm more impressed they actually managed to connect all those things to Kallen mid-fall and later mid-flight. That is some impressive ballistic maneuvering and intercept. The mobile net should have powered the Lancelot down, but I suppose Suzaku did say he had shielding against it now. I wonder if the new Radiation Arm has a bit of the Hadron Cannon mixed into it, like the Lancelot's new cannon has.

It's also too bad we lost Old Pimplehead. I hope that the Black Knights are going to be getting some reinforcements in terms of ace pilots soon. They lost quite a few good ones this time.

It's also kinda lame the Lancelot got even more overpowered. I know it has to match up to the now-powered Gurren, but it was already ridiculously overpowered. How many freaking special weapons does it have now?

I also got the urge to kick Nunnally a bit. Euphie was still stupid and misguided. The Britannians are far too used to suppressing the Elevens (and it looks like we might see more of that from the preview) not only from before during season 1, but especially after the Rebellion was knocked down and the Elevens punished.

The Autonomous Zone would never have worked then, there were far too many racist leaders in Britannia, and it certainly won't work now, since there are even more angry and racist Britannians nowadays.

...and now Nunnally believes in the same ideals that Suzaku claims to. There was only one consolation this episode. If it showed anything, Nunnally is still very much Lelouch's sister and Marianne's daughter. She's by no means stupid. Maybe she'll see Suzaku for what he has become.

Then again, she'd hate Lelouch for the same reasons.

TheBladeChild

Sun, 05-11-2008, 05:25 PM

Great action, too bad the OBK lost even more ace pilots. And I gotta say the Gurren's upgrades own everyone elses. Im starting to think the Nunnally should start to suspect that Zero is Lelouch after the last second scene right before the episode cuts to credits.

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 05-11-2008, 05:51 PM

Yeah, the very last scene must make her suspicious, but I think even if she did know, that she would follow Euphie's ways because she is too pure and innocent. Nunally doesn't look further than at the first evil, so she will never be able to see that what Britannia is doing is wrong and always will be. And that totally sucks balls, because Lelouch is put in an awful position, one that he doesn't deserve by far.

God I hate Suzaku, playing innocent and all in front of Nunally, and god I hate Britannia, and god do I hate that this series had to turn out like this and then end so soon with just a lot of filler fighting-scenes. I think I've never been so angry at an anime, let alone at just a single episode.

(No need to comment the fighting for me since it was totally awesome and Karen rocked 3 knights of rounds at the same time).

Buffalobiian

Sun, 05-11-2008, 06:50 PM

[Eclipse] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 06 h264 1280x720 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2006%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b479B373E%5d.mkv.tor rent)
[Eclipse] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 06 XviD (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2006%20(XviD)%20%5b17C80E40%5d.avi.torrent)

depthcharge

Sun, 05-11-2008, 07:33 PM

urgh, Do those """" who put that fake file up ever get punished? Bandwidth is precious!!!

I am not very bothered. Just bothered enough to ask who those asshole really are. I be pissed if the DVD I bought from Walmart comes back with this flashing fake

KrayZ33

Sun, 05-11-2008, 08:32 PM

Hmmm I don't know what to think about this episode... sure the new Guren is awesome etc. but for some reason I'm totally disappointed about that british commander... he was just plain stupid, like prince clovis (or how he was called, the guy in the first episodes). That was really boring to look at... nearly no resistance at all until the Knights etc. came to help him...he was just "there" and saying some things sometimes, so the viewer doesn't forget about him and when he wasn't needed anymore they made him do something stupid and he died.... It just looked so fake and like a setup, that he was used for this porpuse isn't what is so bad about it, but that they made it so obvious is...

I don't know but it felt like the place, where they were fighting, was just there to introduce the new Guren.. it was simply pointless and boring..

ahh, difficult to explain what I meant to say..its just that it was over too quickly.

btw nunally looks like she is 4 years older now or so... didn't just 1 year pass?

Uchiha Barles

Sun, 05-11-2008, 10:09 PM

This was a freaking beautiful episode. Look's like Lelouche's reason to destroy the empire is going to have to mature. "It's all for Nunnaly's sake!"...stfu. Evil is evil. Get rid of it. I can't wait to see how this plays out. Other than him actually saving her, AND things going back to what they were in season 1, between him and her, I don't see how they can fuck this up.

Oh, and the instant mid-fall weapon/engine/shield/flight upgrade brough on some serious loling.

btw nunally looks like she is 4 years older now or so... didn't just 1 year pass?

Yougins grow rather quickly over the timespan of a year. Though, I don't really recall how old she was before. I'm thinking she's around 16 now.

Board of Command

Sun, 05-11-2008, 10:28 PM

Best episode yet in season 2. This is everything that Code Geass stands for.

rockmanj

Sun, 05-11-2008, 10:56 PM

Wow, Kallen's Strike err.. new Guren is ridiculous...I like that whole little war between technologies with Lloyd and that Indian lady.

Board of Command

Sun, 05-11-2008, 11:30 PM

By the way, what's the deal with Eclipse constantly changing the spelling of Karen/Kallen's name? Is it Karen when someone on the Brittania side says it, and Kallen for the Japanese side?

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-12-2008, 12:08 AM

I haven't seen the subbed episode, but if there is any reason that should be it. It is also noted in wiki that her English name is Kallen while her Japanese name is Karen. It makes sense since she probably would prefer to be called by a japanese name when amongst her comrades.

Hmm. I am not so sure about this episode. I am never a fan of mech upgrades in code geass, since I don't find charm in it. It is simply not what the show is about, so I understand the comments about the episode ending too fast since it was mainly just mech battles.

I am glad that Lelouch still could not lie to Nunnally. His claim that she is still his raison d'etre is also good to hear. The fact that he respect her will despite it trampling all over his own is most admirable. What to do now though? Will Nunnally really hate Lelouch for all that he has done for her? If that ever happened, I would want her to die. That would simply be the pinnacle of naivety and betrayal, and that would completely destroy Lelouch, which will consequently harm C.C. C.C. vs Nunnally was never a contest.

Yukimura

Mon, 05-12-2008, 12:19 AM

I think that's to highlight the difference between them. To the Britannians she's Karen Staldfedt daughter of some important noble guy. To her Japanese friends and herself she's Kozuki Kallen, which I suppose is what her mother wanted to name her.

Anyway, I won't be satisfied with her until she says something along the lines of "This hand of mine is burning red!" before attacking one of the named enemies.

And something I have to shake my fist at Sunrise for. Kallen has always been the only Suzaku/Knight of Rounds caliber pilot in OotBk. Now there are basically 3 Suzakus. She can't realistically keep soloing them all. Even if we toss Rollo and Toudou into the mix they both use mass produced suits. Custom always beats mass produced so how do they plan to even the playing field.

Board of Command

Mon, 05-12-2008, 12:25 AM

Yeah but Rollo is pure hax. He doesn't need skill or equipment to beat other mechs.

DDBen

Mon, 05-12-2008, 03:36 AM

The actual plot parts of this episode overall were great. How Rollo managed to get Lelouch out of the spot of talking to Nannaly on the phone was nice to see. Apparently Lelouch is officially immune to Rollo at this point and the fact he could possibly give the immunity to say Kallen and use Rollo to Pause the enemy forces seems like it could be really vicious in battle. I don't mind Nannaly taking over Euphie's goal either as thats completely in character for her but as has been stated it has below zero chance of actually working. It was also nice to see her actively questioning Suzaku during this episode.

The Mech fights while entertaining we are getting to much of a cluster of godly mechs seriously whats powering these things at this point? The worst offender remains Suzaku's Lancelot and its billion weapons/upgrades. At least the Gurren upgrade was rather massive and somewhat justified the new massive power boost. I REALLY dislike this new Lancelot shield of his more then the gun pack upgrade its just flat out silly.

I'm also not a fan of the random deaths going on with the 4 holy blades. The first one at least went down with some honor this one was kind of like a afterthought so they could fire the voice actor or something.

I REALLY dislike EVERYONE managing to show up for this decisive battle in the middle of nowhere. One would think Zero's surprise attack would catch one of these factions off guard instead of having everyone of note manage to all arrive at the same relative time in the middle of nowhere. Given all the parties had the flight route so I can somewhat suspend my disbelief but the resulting battle seemed cluttered and resulted in the need for a random death.

Overall it was a solid episode one that still seems like we are getting setup and situated for this season I look forward to when the plot actually gets moving instead of still trying to undo 24-25.

kenren

Mon, 05-12-2008, 04:10 AM

Ah, the feeling of having your love ones siding with your enemy.. :(
Lord Lyold's screaming cracked me up.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-12-2008, 04:14 AM

The actual plot parts of this episode overall were great. How Rollo managed to get Lelouch out of the spot of talking to Nannaly on the phone was nice to see. Apparently Lelouch is officially immune to Rollo at this point and the fact he could possibly give the immunity to say Kallen and use Rollo to Pause the enemy forces seems like it could be really vicious in battle. I don't mind Nannaly taking over Euphie's goal either as thats completely in character for her but as has been stated it has below zero chance of actually working. It was also nice to see her actively questioning Suzaku during this episode.
...
I REALLY dislike EVERYONE managing to show up for this decisive battle in the middle of nowhere. One would think Zero's surprise attack would catch one of these factions off guard instead of having everyone of note manage to all arrive at the same relative time in the middle of nowhere. Given all the parties had the flight route so I can somewhat suspend my disbelief but the resulting battle seemed cluttered and resulted in the need for a random death.
Lelouch is not immune to Rollo's Geass. Didn't you see the red sphere shoot out? Rollo stopped it before it hit Lelouch, ensuring that he was not within the boundary when he used it on Suzaku, giving Lelouch just enough time to talk to Nunnally.

The only ones that should have showed up in time to fight the Black Knights was Guilford, and the Jet-Fighter Jackass. Guilford because he was with Lloyd and Cecile, and the Jet-Fighter Jackass because his Knightmare is obviously much faster when in that form. Suzaku especially was just riding in a plane, one that should not have been any faster than the ones carrying the Black Knights. Assuming there was no warning, Suzaku should have taken just as long to get there as the Black Knights did, giving them plenty of time to capture Nunnally.

DDBen

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:32 AM

Lelouch is not immune to Rollo's Geass. Didn't you see the red sphere shoot out? Rollo stopped it before it hit Lelouch, ensuring that he was not within the boundary when he used it on Suzaku, giving Lelouch just enough time to talk to Nunnally.

Ahh your right I didn't pay attention to that one, I was assuming that when he told lelouch the "weakness" of his Geass that would somehow allow him to be uneffected. Apparently incorrectly for now.

The only ones that should have showed up in time to fight the Black Knights was Guilford, and the Jet-Fighter Jackass. Guilford because he was with Lloyd and Cecile, and the Jet-Fighter Jackass because his Knightmare is obviously much faster when in that form. Suzaku especially was just riding in a plane, one that should not have been any faster than the ones carrying the Black Knights. Assuming there was no warning, Suzaku should have taken just as long to get there as the Black Knights did, giving them plenty of time to capture Nunnally.

Thats basically how I felt about it but without in episode timestamps we can't be completely sure of this. Thing is the black Knight had some setup to do after "escaping" so its possible they had enough time but I still found it really weak to have Suzaku find out the Black Knights are magically gone then turn around and be there in time to stop them after they expressly state it should take atleast a hour for help to show up. I don't buy the guys Jet-Lancelot being able to make up an hour difference either for that matter. Frankly him capturing Nannally and then having her tell him exactly what she wanted and having to let her go would have had more overall impact.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:37 AM

The focus of this ep seems to be the fight at the end, but there was one really cool detail in the middle of the ep that will push this story forward. "Brother" and "Killing all the gods as an objective". We now know what the Emperor and V.V. is up to. Could it be that C.C.'s mission is to counter that? Could that be why Lelouch's mother was killed? What if she made a contract with C.C. in order to stop V.V. or something like that? That could explain her death.

TheBladeChild

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:58 AM

shinta|hikari

Mon, 05-12-2008, 06:23 AM

Or maybe they are actually blood related, making V.V. Lelouch's uncle.

WTF, V.V. is a guy!??!?

vejita613

Mon, 05-12-2008, 06:37 AM

That was made known atleast since lelouchs and CC's conversation last episode.

Inazuma

Mon, 05-12-2008, 06:47 AM

Or maybe they are actually blood related, making V.V. Lelouch's uncle.

WTF, V.V. is a guy!??!?

Welcome to Japan my friend.

Yeah but Rollo is pure hax. He doesn't need skill or equipment to beat other mechs.

Yeah it's like the God of War "fuck you" button. Press it, here you're done.

And something I have to shake my fist at Sunrise for. Kallen has always been the only Suzaku/Knight of Rounds caliber pilot in OotBk. Now there are basically 3 Suzakus.

I don't know who had this idea .... More Suzakus is like ... cloning Hitler in the middle of WW2. As if one ain't enough.

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-12-2008, 08:21 AM

It's actually nice that Nunnaly tried to follow in Suzaku's and Euphie's ideals. I mean, Zero did agree to Euphie's plans, and were it not for tragedy, it might've worked. It's too bad about a few things though, she is being used, so there's almost no way she knows everything she ought to if she's going to try this. Also, the conditions aren't the same. The Japanese at large don't know that Euphie was under the influence of Geass when she slaughtered them oh so hillariously. They'll never trust a Britannian again. It was a nice try for a sweet little girl though. I'm awaiting the carnage that's about to happen with so much glee it's unbelilevable.

KrayZ33

Mon, 05-12-2008, 08:56 AM

Kraco

Mon, 05-12-2008, 08:56 AM

Yukimura

Mon, 05-12-2008, 10:28 AM

Random blurb. C.C talking to Lelouch with Cheese-kun in her 'underwear' was awesome. I'm glad they still managed to work in some fanservice.

And Kraco you make a good point, Zero seems to be operating at a post time skip Light level this season. Whenever he has managed to pull something off it's been quickly countered with something even better (or worse) that gets him into hot water again. He really needs a decisive victory of some sort but I can't imagine what could give him one now that Nunally is going to be his adversary and there are three KoR's to thwart any martial plans. Maybe he'll really give up next ep and run off to China or something.

David75

Mon, 05-12-2008, 10:33 AM

I have a question, why does Lyod scream out in pain (*itaaaaaaa*) when the lancelot got hit slighty by a Haken from Kallen?

Or was it because he is angry that the Gurren is stronger than his own Mecha?

and btw... the OBK does have a new ace pilot (because some people said that they need more good pilots)...namely Viletta... at least it is most likely that she switched sides, even though she might only do it because she is threatened... or maybe because of Ogi...

For some reason he seems to be in a match with that indian lady over who is the best at creating incredible Knights.
When his lancelot was hit, he took it to himself too as his loss against her.
Moreover you could add that he somatizes anything related to his baby the lancelot.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-12-2008, 03:37 PM

In a sense Lelouch got served exactly what he ordered. It's pretty obvious Nunnally knows even less of the real situation of the Japanese than Euphie. She's blind and tied to a chair and was heavily sheltered by Lelouch. And now she's in a position where those around her are free to feed her whatever kind of information they want. If Lelouch hadn't kept her so detached from the troubles of the world, she might have had far more sympathy for Zero's ways. It certainly backfired now. His reason for fighting became the very flaw of the plan.

Somehow very very little in this second season has so far gone Lelouch's way.
I think Nunnally is far, far smarter than Euphie. Sure, she may know less about the plight of the Japanese primarily because first Lelouch and Suzaku, and later just Lelouch, sheltered her from it all. She was blind and helpless during the first war, and there was the scene where she asked what the smell was, and Lelouch lied to her instead of telling her it was bodies. Once at the Academy, she was isolated from a lot of the other students (though everyone knew of her), and never left the grounds at all.

Still, unlike Euphemia, who was coddled by her sister to excess, Nunnally experienced first hand the real horrors of the world. She laid underneath Marianne's dead body for some time, possibly hours.

If anything, Nunnally may better understand the reasons why she wants to follow in Euphie's footsteps, instead of naively believing everyone in the world is capable of sweetness and light.

Nunnally was a bit underused last season, but I've still have a great deal of hope for her. She's Marianne's daughter and she's an absolute wild card. If the "Flash of Lightning" was as great as everyone keeps saying she is, enough to make Cornelia blush when Schnizel compares the two (season 1 eps 21), then Nunnally will probably be just as capable as her brother. She's incredibly observant for being "helpless and blind" as we saw many, many times, from the first meeting with C.C., to Nina's table-play, and knowing Suzaku and Euphie through touch alone.

If anything, I think Nunnally won't simply take what others feed her. She's more than intuitive enough to figure out when people are lying to her, and probably capable enough to figure out what's really going on and then make the appropriate choices. I think she's far more capable of seeking out her own answers, asking people, and then determining if she's being fed information. Euphie slowly figured out she was a meaningless figurehead. Nunnally would know right away.

Will these cause even more problems for Lelouch? Absolutely. But I don't think they may be merely from a goal-and-ethical standpoint. Perhaps more politically and tactically.

If you really think about it, in truth, we know next to nothing about her.

David75

Mon, 05-12-2008, 04:09 PM

Lelouch doesn't want to lie to her because she's the last thing that makes him a human, rather than a demon or anything as bad as you like. She's his last ray of hope for a world of ease and peace.

In reality she's also the one that best knows Lelouch. And it's not just because she's blond and blind people are said to decipher people better. She probably uses that too, but she has been knowing Lelouch like forever. She probably also is incredibly smart, she could be to the level of Lelouch, at least I hope so. So to me there's no way she could be fed anything, as Ryllharu suggests. Lelouch also doesn't even want to try because he knows her sister would see through it clearly, no matter how he tries to hide things.

Regarding the only time we witnessed Lelouch obviously lying to her, which Ryllharu mentioned, it's very probable Nunally knew. As you said, she had her mom's dead body on her for some time and was heavily wonded at the same time. She probably knows too well what it's like to be in a place with dead people. So she probably knew her brother lied to her that time, and said nothing about it cause she also knew he did this
to protect her.

So like you I hope they use Nunally the right way.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-12-2008, 04:18 PM

I don't think she knows Lelouch the best though, not by a long shot. He may say he'll never lie to her (and he has in the past, several times. About who C.C. is.), but he omits a lot. In fact, it's better to say he doesn't tell her anything. He has coddled her since she was hurt in the attack the same way Cornelia did to Euphie.

I just have a lot more faith in Nunnally. I think she's a little more of a Cornelia than a Euphiemia. We know nothing about how well she does in school, what she knows and doesn't know, who she's talked to, what she did when Lelouch and the rest of the Council weren't around, etc. People don't lie to her very often, and she certainly can tell when people are not being entirely forthcoming with her. Nunnally always comes off as trustworthy and innocent because she looks so frail.

But we learned in this episode that the Emperor didn't put her here as the replacement Governor-General. She asked for it.

If anyone, C.C. knows the most about Lelouch. She was his confidant all of last season, and who knows what she learned from him when they made their contract, what Marianne has told her, and what she knew from a long time ago.

Kallen is catching up, as he can finally confide in her as well, but we know he simply doesn't tell her everything the same way he bounces ideas off C.C. (or was he simply trying to prove his own intelligence to C.C. back in season 1?).

MFauli

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:10 PM

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:17 PM

Oh, for me, I don't want him dead, must be some kind of misconception here. I want him tortured like Griffith was in Berserk only longer, then pissed on, publically humiliated, and then I want him to experience first hand why his path is the wrong one. Then I want him to die full of regrets.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:25 PM

not so much to say about this ep (well, you guys always blow everything out of proportion, dont change please :P), but...they really want you to hate Suzaku, don they?
Wah, i want him dead, please. thats all :-(
You did fine with School Days, and all of us blew that one way out of proportion. Join the fun here.

But yeah, the writers gave us more than enough here. We don't even have to try and hate him in this episode. It was all too easy.

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:30 PM

Why so much hate for Suzaku? :-(. Anyway, some good points were made about Nunally. She's potentially really smart considering her supposed pedigree, and being blind and unable to move probably forces her to become more empathetic and intutive. The problem is, she's still blind and immobile. Who's she going to confide in? What's going to stop someone from, say, assuring her that the two of them are the only ones in a room when a important conversation is occuring, when in fact there may be a third party, or more, present. The only people in Britannia that she can really trust, in my opinion, are Suzaku and Cornelia. Cornelia's missing in action, and Suzaku can't be there all the time. Suzaku's also going to want to protect her. In that interest, he's probably going to continue sheltering her. Funny guy this Suzaku. Her only effectiveness, it seems to me, will be that of an image, a ray of hope you might say, because I definitely don't see her developing any real political clout otherwise. If she does though...fantastic, more anal rapage for Lelouche...which 'll make his eventual victory all that much sweeter xD.

TheBladeChild

Mon, 05-12-2008, 05:37 PM

Why so much hate for Suzaku? :-(. Anyway, some good points were made about Nunally. Her only effectiveness, it seems to me, will be that of an image, a ray of hope you might say, because I definitely don't see her developing any real political clout otherwise. If she does though...fantastic, more anal rapage for Lelouche...which 'll make his eventual victory all that much sweeter xD.

Im pretty sure if you go back and read the 745623475629874 posts from season one you know why that most of us hates him. Though I imagine you'll also find some reasons not to hate him aswell.

Anyway I have the feeling that this series will not end in Lelouche's victory, I think it will be more mixed ending that somehow give Lelouche what he wants yet not exactly in the way he expected. I know im being kind of vague here but knowing Sunrise i might be giving them too much credit.

Everon

Mon, 05-12-2008, 06:29 PM

I think I'm getting close to the point where I don't care much for the series. I don't understand why Lelouch isn't asking C.C.'s more questions -- about geass, V.V. and her goals. Shouldn't it be clear the mystery behind geass plays an important part of Britainnia's control?

Naruto_RNG

Mon, 05-12-2008, 06:33 PM

Its funny how suzuku is saying all that crap, and want for others to trust him when he was the one who killed his father. I don't think I can trust such a person. When is he going to die?
Guys wut happened to the suit that Lelouch and C.C were piloting in the end of season 1. Don't remember if it got destroyed or not. As much as I want the BK to win their fights, I hate to c a single vs multiple and it wins. So I too am hoping others are getting upgrades too.
Who should take suzuku's life? I would of said Lelouch before, but now I want one of his friends kill him.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-12-2008, 07:11 PM

I can't believe I forgot about those parts right at the beginning of this episode, supporting most of the statements I've made about Nunnally.

3:00-3:10
Nunnally: "Is Suzaku lying to me? But even Brother's...What has happened between the two of them?"

Not that even an idiot wouldn't have been able to tell that Lelouch was acting very strange about the phone conversation, but rather that Nunnally's first question is whether Suzaku has been feeding her lies. She also knows right away that there is something wrong, and that they are on opposing sides.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 05-12-2008, 07:58 PM

She wonders wether or not he is feeding her lies, but for some reason she screams out to him like a little baby at the end of the ep, conveying a sense of trust towards him. These two things are contradictory... Probably mostly because the creator didn't think that far.

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-13-2008, 12:01 AM

She shouts for him because she heard his fucking stupid voice over the speakers of the lancelot. If she even thought for half a second that Lelouch was there, she would have shouted "Brother!!!" before even considering Suzaku.

Now, I am pretty sure she knows that Lelouch is Zero (because she heard the shout at the end of the episode), but like Suzaku in S1 will keep denying it until more evidence surfaces. It is great that she does value her brothers words more as Ryll pointed out, but Lelouch doesn't know this, and I pity him for it. I hope that C.C. does a good job (which means an entire episode of screentime for me) of pulling him back up from despair.

I am also glad that C.C. has started to show more emotion about her concern for Lelouch. When she depended on Kallen in this episode, she made a very worried face, not for some goal but rather out of genuine concern for Lelouch. Maybe their relationship will move further in the next episode, especially with Zero in shambles.

About asking C.C. questions... It is probably because she would not answer them. So far, the only times C.C. ever revealed such information was when it was absolutely necessary, like when Nunnally was kidnapped, and when V.V. has become a direct threat to the rebellion. Some new events (like this Nunnally thing) might force her to reveal some more information.

EDIT: Oh wait, let us not forget... Nunnally was, maybe even still is in love with Suzaku. How can I miss this stupid fact? Still, I don't think she would pick Suzaku over Lelouch. It might be a different story if she finds out her brother is Zero, considering how naive she can be.

EDIT 2: Just rechecked some parts of the episode. When she said the line Ryll quoted, she didn't trust Lelouch's words over Suzaku completely. While she did doubt him first, she actually expressed that her brother might be lying to her as well right after. The way she said it also showed the same amount of suspicion, rather than any form of trust for Lelouch.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 05-13-2008, 03:55 AM

DIT 2: Just rechecked some parts of the episode. When she said the line Ryll quoted, she didn't trust Lelouch's words over Suzaku completely. While she did doubt him first, she actually expressed that her brother might be lying to her as well right after. The way she said it also showed the same amount of suspicion, rather than any form of trust for Lelouch.

When she said that, she wondered if Suzaku is lying to him. She then says "Even Brother's...."

She's not suspicious that Lelouch's lying, since he said that he is already. She aknowledges the fact that her brother is lying and acting strangely (pretending to be another person), and that Suzaku may be lying to her.

She's just trying to put the two together based on just a short conversation.

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-13-2008, 05:18 AM

I didn't read the subtitles. I got it from the actual Japanese, which I am certain is more accurate.

What she meant by "Demo Onii-sama datte..." is indeed "But even brother is...", yet that translation does not capture the nuance in her words. She was wondering why her brother would say such a thing (and need to pretend to be strangers), meaning she does not trust him completely.

What I meant before (about Nunnally thinking Lelouch may be lying) were not the words after the disclaimer, but rather the whole issue. So it is not like she suspects that only Suzaku is lying, but also has doubts about her brother's truthfulness.

Shinji Ikari

Tue, 05-13-2008, 06:18 AM

I think that what she means by Lelouch lying is in the fact that Lelouch wanted to pretend in front of Suzaku, since right after she makes that "Demo, nii-san datte" she comes up with the what happened between Suzaku and Lelouch... a subtext to that could be "why would Lelouch want to pretend in front of Suzaku"

Edit: Just a thought. And if so, she would not question Lelouch's truthfulness towards her but rather Suzaku. Which would add to her doubting Suzaku even more.

This is mostly my wishfull thinking though, since I would hate for Nunally and Zero to end up on different sides.

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-13-2008, 06:49 AM

Let me put it simply. In that situation, if Lelouch was telling the truth about the whole issue, Suzaku would definitely be lying. With Nunnally not being sure if Suzaku is lying (and to what extent, since Suzaku's last comments were definitely lies from any point of view), it automatically casts doubt on Lelouch's honesty as well. Add to that her doubting words "But even brother is (acting strange)", it cannot be denied that there is suspicion, and confusion on her part.

I still believe that she trusts Lelouch more since she doubted Suzaku first, but there is definitely doubt in her mind, especially now with the voice she heard at the very end.

EDIT: Put even simpler, If she trusted Lelouch completely, there is no point in even doubting that Suzaku is deceiving her, since that is the natural conclusion.

vejita613

Tue, 05-13-2008, 03:18 PM

Anyway I have the feeling that this series will not end in Lelouche's victory, I think it will be more mixed ending that somehow give Lelouche what he wants yet not exactly in the way he expected. I know im being kind of vague here but knowing Sunrise i might be giving them too much credit.
I know exactly what you mean. Basically I can see the series end like this: Lelouch is successful in taking down the emperor and crushing Britainia (or atleast leaving it in a lot worse shape than it is right now). However, he will probably having nothing once its all said and done. Suzaku will probably be dead. Nannully will either reject him totally or be dead which takes out his biggest reason for fighting in the first place. His friends at school will likely meet a similiar fate as Nannuly (I doubt ALL of them will die, but at the very least they will reject the man whos fighting their homeland).

I can also see the Black Knights turn on him for whatever reason.,,,,maybe because of some similiar action he made at the end of R1 or maybe theyre tired of being his pawns (maybe a combination of both). And he may even solve the mystery of his mothers death (although somehow I have a feeling that somehow he wont like the answer he gets for some reason or another). So basically Lelouch will have crushed his enemies but in the end it wont even matter anymore.

Chiodos

Fri, 05-16-2008, 08:21 AM

I'd say Lelouch die by a ass woopin' death like Light did in Death Note Manga/Movie. That'be also yay more satisfying...

OR....Nunally pulls the trigger at him, when his on top, having the world and shit, or as stated above post!

Anyways, this maybe has been mention before me but this show is almost to "something just happens" all the time...The Plot, side Plots just happen just like that. I may have the worst written argument here as I don't, for the moment, having nothing to backup on but maybe it's just me who ust got bored of this show.

Kraco

Fri, 05-16-2008, 09:41 AM

If it wasn't for C.C. I almost hope Lelouch would die saving Nunnally. However, since I hope C.C. and Lelouch would become some sort of a couple, I'm not sure what to expect. It would be just too sad for C.C. to be left alone as she's no doubt the loneliest character in this whole story.

s, this maybe has been mention before me but this show is almost to "something just happens" all the time...The Plot, side Plots just happen just like that. I may have the worst written argument here as I don't, for the moment, having nothing to backup on but maybe it's just me who ust got bored of this show.

Most series are like that. Some series, like Death Note, can't be like that most of the time because they have little else going for them than clever plots. However, Code Geass has huge amounts of interesting stuff composing it, so it can afford to have "things just happen". And I certainly haven't ever, not even once, been bored of this show! What an outrageous idea.

Yukimura

Fri, 05-16-2008, 11:56 AM

I experienced a strong feeling similar to what you described during this ep Chidos. While the action was indeed cool and held my attention when I went back and thought about it much of the ep, as well as ep 5, seemed stitched together without particularly good transitioning between events. It hasn't become a big deal to me yet but the more I notice it the more I'm going to think about it during episodes which will likely poison the experience.

Hopefully it will get better as the story moves forward.

Deadfire

Sun, 05-18-2008, 12:10 PM

Well no subs have come out yet but if you really want it...

[Chihiro]Code Geass R207[H264][HD] (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=19329)
[Chihiro]Code Geass R207[H264][SD] (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=19322)

mostly quality is rock bottom with colours are washed out, it's way too sharp and pixelated but if you want it...

If you are are looking for something better it is well worth waitting... for someone like eclipse

EDIT:

Eclipse CG R207 h264 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2007%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5bEC9B0D6A%5d.mkv.tor rent)

Eclipse CG R207 XviD (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2007%20(XviD)%20%5bF197E873%5d.avi.torrent)

Sweet :)

David75

Sun, 05-18-2008, 12:43 PM

Well no subs have come out yet but if you really want it...

[Chihiro]Code Geass R207[H264][HD] (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=19329)
[Chihiro]Code Geass R207[H264][SD] (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=19322)

mostly quality is rock bottom with colours are washed out, it's way too sharp and pixelated but if you want it...

If you are are looking for something better it is well worth waitting... for someone like eclipse

HD version for Ep 7 by Chihiro
http://www.mininova.org/get/1420286

HD by Eclipse:
http://www.mininova.org/get/1420474

HD by GG
http://www.mininova.org/get/1420431

SD by Chihiro
http://www.mininova.org/get/1419953

Darknodin

Sun, 05-18-2008, 02:17 PM

not gonna comment much on this since it seems that not many ppl watched it yet... the only thing i've gotta say is

wtf!?

Deadfire

Sun, 05-18-2008, 03:28 PM

HD by Eclipse:
http://www.mininova.org/get/1420474

Fixed :)

Eclipse CG R207 h264 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2007%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5bEC9B0D6A%5d.mkv.tor rent)

Eclipse CG R207 XviD (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2007%20(XviD)%20%5bF197E873%5d.avi.torrent)

Yukimura

Sun, 05-18-2008, 03:45 PM

Well at least there weren't as many examples of random shifts in temporality, but the transition from Lelouch happily playing with fireworks with his pals to standing on the beach giving orders was a bit weird.

I guess we should have expected this, however it's kind of lame that he was pretty much forced into this situation. I wonder what tricks he has up his sleeve to pull this off well.

Kraco

Sun, 05-18-2008, 04:00 PM

I guess we should have expected this, however it's kind of lame that he was pretty much forced into this situation.

He was forced into this situation if you mean forced to make a decision. That was clear already during the previous ep. I think he needed to make one sooner or later in any case. The choices pretty much were to forget it all, repeat the first season or come up with something new. Now that his opponent is the precious Nunnally, the something new was strenghtened as a choice, for sure.

Heh. It sure was a Zero trademark way of suddenly decimating the whole bloody fleet at once...

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 05-18-2008, 06:08 PM

But this way it works out perfectly, because the emperor is very much NOT happy with this conclusion, and peace will not happen just because Nunally wants it to happen. It's so ironical that she is saying that she is speaking for the empire's thoughts and wishes, and then have the emperors speech saying the complete opposite. Because now, the most likely path is that the empire will do something crazy despite Nunally's wishes, she will wake up out of her cuddly world and have no choice but to side with Zero who still is the only one who is right in this battle.

And then the battle (which is so important to thi series) will go on until Zero stands victorious.

Edit: It was really funny to hear the emperors speech, because what he is talking about is so beyond impossible that it's ridiculous and kind of cute, since you know directly that the person behind the story doesn't know much about social science and thought that through properly. And if that is the kind of world the emperor wants, what would truely happen is that someone in the audience would pick up a gun and shoot the emperor on the spot, and he would die with a smile on his face because his words would have gone through to the people.

animus

Sun, 05-18-2008, 06:33 PM

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 05-18-2008, 06:57 PM

You bet!! :D

Inazuma

Sun, 05-18-2008, 07:08 PM

It was a very good episode, but it gets epic because everyone can feel thats a stepping stone for some truly griandiosisimo Episode 8

Ryllharu

Sun, 05-18-2008, 09:38 PM

Nice scene with Kallen and Lelouch.

I know it's been said somewhere before, but Kaguya's new outfit makes it look like she fell out of a magical girl anime. It just seemed really out of place.

Though she doesn't seem to have a problem with Kallen and C.C. being Zero's other concubines...I guess she's still very traditional. I was beginning to have my doubts.

Not too much else to talk about. This was more of a transition episode.

David75

Sun, 05-18-2008, 11:48 PM

And again we had the same battle idea: the ground you walk on disapears and you loose... idea applied to water.
In a way the difference was slightly refreshing.

rockmanj

Mon, 05-19-2008, 01:13 AM

It was odd to see Lelouch all hormonal and stuff, and then playing Zero like 5 minutes later. I guess they have to do stuff like that for the sake of the story.

Kraco

Mon, 05-19-2008, 02:20 AM

It was odd to see Lelouch all hormonal and stuff, and then playing Zero like 5 minutes later. I guess they have to do stuff like that for the sake of the story.

I don't think there was anything wrong with that. The meeting with Kallen and then all the student council members just made him realise he could still have other reasons to fight for and not only Nunnally. The whole "Zero exists for Nunnally" claim was a bit thin in any case, in my opinion. A major part of his motivation had to come from the simple fact he enjoyed being Zero, manipulating people, and commanding forces. He is the emperor's son, after all.

Kaguya is quite unbelievable. I had no idea she is like that, thought the couple of earlier scenes in this series already had begun to make me suspicious. She would be a total husband worshipper. I also find it kind of nice C.C. has begun to interact a bit with other people than Lelouch. But there are still far too few scenes with Lelouch and C.C.! Come on, what's the deal here!

TheBladeChild

Mon, 05-19-2008, 03:21 AM

I really liked the scene between Kallen and Lelouch, I never thought he'd allow himself to seen in a weak position to one of his subordinates. I never thought he'd also come that close to using refrain either.

As much as I like seeing Zero's typical plan of blowing something up causing a landslide/buildings falling or in this case causing a bubbles(wtf?) to destroy his enemies, I want to see more drawn out battles like in the last few episodes in season one.

As for the next episode, It seems that the OotBKs wont be simply going on with the special area of Nippon or whatever it was called.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 05-19-2008, 03:40 AM

I rather liked this ep, despite it being a transition for a bigger event.

Glad to see C.C.'s smile, at least before Kaguya saw her. And on that note, more of her talking to Marianne. After what she said, as well as how she doesn't seem urgent in having Lelouch fulfilling his part of the contract, it's almost as if her giving him a Geass is so she can watch over him and give him a reason to live, possibly Marianne's wishes.

Side note: Kallen's always hanging out with the Black Knights, I wonder where she got that outfit from. It was rather cute though.

Kraco

Mon, 05-19-2008, 03:41 AM

...or in this case causing a bubbles(wtf?) to destroy his enemies...

All Hail The Bermuda Triangle! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle#Methane_hydrates) I actually thought that was a pretty elegant idea for them to use.

David75

Mon, 05-19-2008, 03:46 AM

As much as I like seeing Zero's typical plan of blowing something up causing a landslide/buildings falling or in this case causing a bubbles(wtf?) to destroy his enemies, I want to see more drawn out battles like in the last few episodes in season one.

When I was 13 I read a book about bermuda triangle.
One of the hypothesis regarding the sudden disapearing of ships was that at some point there is a massive submarine gaz realease, when that happens the density of gaz+water dramatically drops and ships sink in seconds... or litterally fall under water+gaz.
No floating ship, no matter how strong, can do anything against that unless they can fly... same goes for submarines.

I don't know if the idea cam from the same kind of source, but it's nice they used that one.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-19-2008, 04:00 AM

I thought about it, and it really is in Zero and the Black Knights to join Nunnally's Zone.

- From the outside view of other countries, it looks like Zero is actively interested in peace.
- Obviously not a popular idea with most noble Britannians, the royalty, the knights of the round, and especially Suzaku. Suzaku wants nothing more than to kill Zero right now, so if he or the military attempts to kill the Black Knights, Suzaku will be incredibly discredited, and gain the ire of all the other nations in the world as utterly dishonorable.
- It remains a consistent thorn in the Emperor's side.
- Though the Elevens will be leery of it now, if they do get attacked again, they will completely forgive Zero for abandoning them a year ago and solidify his power base.
- Zero and the Black Knights can easily fake another attack on them to accomplish all of this, only under more controlled circumstances so as not to implicate Nunnally this time. Perhaps blaming it on the Purists like he did with Orange-kun.

Crash

Mon, 05-19-2008, 07:39 AM

A good episode. Not a lot of action, but seeing Lelouche struggling with the possibility of fighting against Nunnaly's desires was just as good. I always enjoy the episodes where they take some time out from him as Zero and show the more fragile conflicted side. The scene with Kallen especially was very good. A possible step forward in their relationship maybe?

I'm not at all surprised he has decided to "go along" with the special area again. After all it's the perfect opportunity for Lelouche to not only to get a face to face with her, but also to abduct her again.

kenren

Mon, 05-19-2008, 08:49 AM

Hmm, what's Refrain? My memory is bad...

I'm guessing some injection to erase memories? :)

RyougaZell

Mon, 05-19-2008, 08:52 AM

I liked the episode a lot, but I must admit I was surprised with the ending. Although, like people have stated, it will surely lead to great things. Like Ryll pointed out, anything done against the OTBK at this moment will discredit Suzaku and the Britannians (and by proxy... the new 'nihon', although this may not be Lelouch's intention, cause it would discredit Nunnally)

Loved the scene with Kallen, even if she slapped him. But it was necessary cause Lelouch was falling fast. I am actually surprised CC did not care if he did not return... she said she was contempt to have him alive... but the refrain could have fried his brain... no?

Also... interesting to see Kaguya implying that the three of them are / will be Zero's concubines (even if she did not explicitly (sp?) used this word). Somehow season 2 has been using this theme almost every episode. The CC / Lelouch / Kallen triangle... which Kaguya wants to make a Square...

EDIT:
Kenren: A drug which Kallen's real mother used, which ended frying up her brain.

David75

Mon, 05-19-2008, 10:12 AM

Loved the scene with Kallen, even if she slapped him. But it was necessary cause Lelouch was falling fast. I am actually surprised CC did not care if he did not return... she said she was contempt to have him alive... but the refrain could have fried his brain... no?

I may be wrong, but to me Lelouche was provoking her so that she understands the inner troubles Lelouche is facing. Karen demands are as hard to Lelouche, as the one he tells her wanting to share the things only a woman can give...

Kraco

Mon, 05-19-2008, 10:52 AM

I don't think so. It looks to me Lelouch was honestly lost and discouraged at that point, and feeling he had nothing to lose, he decided to screw around a little with Kallen who came to preach at him. I don't know how long he had been sitting there with the drug, hesitating, but what he did with Kallen wasn't that different from deciding whether to use the drug or not.

RyougaZell

Mon, 05-19-2008, 11:16 AM

Chiodos

Mon, 05-19-2008, 11:55 AM

Can anyone tell me who Marianne C.C is refraining to?

David75

Mon, 05-19-2008, 12:29 PM

Indeed. He even went as far as to tell her to 'comfort' him, the way only a woman can... ero-Lelouch... lol.

Oh yeah... I hated the fact that Nina was included on Lelouch's imagination about everybody with the fireworks... guess he still does not know she is out for his blood (and a new set of tables)
Well his ex-could-have-been girlfriend suggested it ;)

And I think the cameos of Nina are there on purpose too... she seems very capable and smart, so she could come out of the blue, from the left field, causing a great deal of troubles to Lelouche.

TheBladeChild

Mon, 05-19-2008, 01:01 PM

Can anyone tell me who Marianne C.C is refraining to?

Marianne is Lelouche's mother

Kraco

Mon, 05-19-2008, 01:25 PM

And I think the cameos of Nina are there on purpose too... she seems very capable and smart, so she could come out of the blue, from the left field, causing a great deal of troubles to Lelouche.

Aye... Actually if Zero becomes a bit more public with the alliance with Nunnally, Nina could indeed try to use the opportunity to try to kill him. After all, while she's good at technology, apparently, it's not like she could ever find Zero normally. But with this latest development she might.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-19-2008, 03:18 PM

Nina definitely still wants to kill Zero for ruining her yuri dream of being with Euphie. She developed the freakin' atomic bomb supercharged with Sakuradite (which we know is excessively explosive on it's own from when Lelouch blew up the tanker with the Japanese Resistance Front's cowardly leaders aboard) solely to kill Zero with it.

Not that I really want to, but I'm surprised we haven't seen more of her yet.

DeathscytheVII

Mon, 05-19-2008, 05:12 PM

On top of the comments posted so Far, i'd like to add two things aside from the Kallen scene that was well done and how Suzaku lost his battle command with a navy muahahhaha

anyone else LOL'ed when Lelouch abused his powers by having the britannian and his gang do push ups, howls, dances and all sorts of stupid things? Finally having some fun with the Geass eh? I'm surprised he never did that earlier

I'm also intrigued as to Rolo's true feelings towards Lelouch. Is he testing Lelouch to see how far his attachment to Nunnally goes and what it means for him in his psuedo-brother role, or does he just want to snap Lelouch out of his emo state? Either way, his motives remain one of the most mysterious segments of the show

also, thank you Viletta!

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/CODE%20GEASS/CODE%20GEASS%20R2%20-%2007%20-%20Large%20Preview%2001.jpg

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 05-19-2008, 05:20 PM

I might just not be reading too much into this whole Rolo deal, but to me it's simple. He has never felt love or closeness towards anyone, and he wants to see if Lelouch will really give him that, if Lelouch will be his brother even though they both know they're not really brothers. It felt kind of obvious the way Rolo reacted when they talked about him and the fireworks. I think he is actually a very naiive and sweet guy, just very very VERY misguided.

Idealistic

Tue, 05-20-2008, 11:41 AM

MmmMMm.... Kallen would be the ideal woman. "Decieve me, use me as bait, command me!" LOL.

I think C.C says all those things about not caring about Lelouch returning, but I think she really does. The impression I got when Kaguya and C.C faced each other with a smile, and then C.C suddenly facing the other way was that she didn't want to show that she really cares if Lelouch returned. But deep down she is happy!

Or maybe she doesn't want to share him with Kaguya? =O.

TheBladeChild

Tue, 05-20-2008, 10:19 PM

She is indeed a very rare woman, she gained a lot of points for me in this episode but so did C.C. Kaguya just kinda annoyed me in season one, but her in this episode made me Lol.

KrayZ33

Wed, 05-21-2008, 04:02 PM

I liked that new, abusive, drug addicted Lelouch a lot... he was pretty cool! I like it when the maincharacter turns 180 degrees (well ok, lelouch always had an abusive side, but this self-pity[drugs] is new in my eyes)

good episod, I loved the argument between Kallen and Lelouch and C.C reactions to simply everything in this episodes were funny too.
(<3 20:00 when she was happy to hear Lelouch's voice again :P)

but for some reason, in my opinion the Emperor's speech wasn't as good as it was in the older eps (for example when clovis died)... whenever he spoke, the end of the sentence was calm... and the words a bit stretched... it sounded so "superior" and "arrogant"

Buffalobiian

Wed, 05-21-2008, 08:13 PM

They still haven't touched on this yet, despite making a cliffhanger of it last time (or the time before):

What exactly did they do with Villetta?

Shinji Ikari

Wed, 05-21-2008, 08:23 PM

They put her in a bathing-suit and is slowly turning her into their private little toy. :D

Crash

Wed, 05-21-2008, 09:38 PM

They still haven't touched on this yet, despite making a cliffhanger of it last time (or the time before):

What exactly did they do with Villetta?

There was no cliff hanger, they wrapped it up in EP 5. Basically they used the relationship she had with Ohgi while she had amnesia to blackmail her into keeping her mouth shut. If the Britainian government were to find out about it she'd lose all her status and very likely be thrown in prison as a traitor.

Buffalobiian

Wed, 05-21-2008, 11:11 PM

There was no cliff hanger, they wrapped it up in EP 5. Basically they used the relationship she had with Ohgi while she had amnesia to blackmail her into keeping her mouth shut. If the Britainian government were to find out about it she'd lose all her status and very likely be thrown in prison as a traitor.

That's what happened when they pointed the gun at her. We haven't seen her since then though. Is she still thinking of a way to get out of this pinch, or is she just going with the flow? What else has Lelouch got her to do? Her main mission was to look for C.C. while Lelouch was just a bait.

The other thing they've mentioned since season 1 and haven't touched on since was Cecile. When Suzaku joined the Special Convoy, Lloyd asked her if it's because Suzaku reminded her of a certain someone. Not a major point, but still a loose end.

Ryllharu

Fri, 05-23-2008, 03:20 PM

When I was 13 I read a book about bermuda triangle.
One of the hypothesis regarding the sudden disapearing of ships was that at some point there is a massive submarine gaz realease, when that happens the density of gaz+water dramatically drops and ships sink in seconds... or litterally fall under water+gaz.
No floating ship, no matter how strong, can do anything against that unless they can fly... same goes for submarines.

I don't know if the idea cam from the same kind of source, but it's nice they used that one.

I actually learned the answer to this one this week, so I figured I'd share, because it's pretty cool.

First, a quick lesson on torpedoes:
Torpedoes are aimed to hit where on a surface ship? a) The side, b) the bow or stern, or c) underneath, missing the ship ?

The correct answer is c). Detonating a torp underneath the ship creates a gas bubble, and the ship rides up on it a little...and then snaps in half. Military ships are huge things that cannot possibly support themselves under their own weight. They are built on huge struts that are usually cut out by experienced divers with torches after it's sitting in a flooded wet dock.

So when Lelouch sent up a massive air bubble, he actually sunk all those ships at the same time when they snapped in two under their own weight.

Here's a video of a destroyer being hit properly with a torpedo:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1248124/torpedo_hits_battleship/

Submarines are a different matter entirely. Water gets in anywhere, the boat sinks.

David75

Fri, 05-23-2008, 03:42 PM

in each of the videos, the explosion really is massive because the boat is lifted in the region were the blast is the most powerfull.
But still, in two cases in the video you clearly see the ship fall by a few meters. (just watch the float line.)

Again Lelouche used the idea that certainties are weaknesses...
Oh, you're sure the ground you walk on is very solid: I'll have it destroyed beneath you and win over you.

Oh, you're sure the water you float on will help you get to me: the giant gass bubble I'll create will sink your ships...

Buffalobiian

Fri, 05-23-2008, 05:45 PM

I actually learned the answer to this one this week, so I figured I'd share, because it's pretty cool.

First, a quick lesson on torpedoes:
Torpedoes are aimed to hit where on a surface ship? a) The side, b) the bow or stern, or c) underneath, missing the ship ?

The correct answer is c). Detonating a torp underneath the ship creates a gas bubble, and the ship rides up on it a little...and then snaps in half. Military ships are huge things that cannot possibly support themselves under their own weight. They are built on huge struts that are usually cut out by experienced divers with torches after it's sitting in a flooded wet dock.

So when Lelouch sent up a massive air bubble, he actually sunk all those ships at the same time when they snapped in two under their own weight.

Here's a video of a destroyer being hit properly with a torpedo:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1248124/torpedo_hits_battleship/

Submarines are a different matter entirely. Water gets in anywhere, the boat sinks.

Is that really what happened in Lelouch's battle though? In the case of the torpedoes actually targeting a ship, it's supposed to create an upward force, preferably right in the middle of the ship. It then snaps the boat by making it a lever system. The middle, where the force is sharply applied, acts as the fulcrum, and the download force applied to either end is equal to half the weight of the ship. Unable to bear the force, the ship snaps .http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4077/89574158bv8.jpg

The key in that one though, is that you have a sharp upward force at one point to form a fulcrum, and distance enough from that point so the explosion gets enough leverage to break.

When you have a massive bubble like Lelouch's, it doesn't apply the force to one single point, but all around the ship. Something like that shouldn't break a ship as a torpedo would, since it'd be like riding a wave, whole ship goes up, whole ship goes down. There's no net difference in the force applied along the ship for it to exert it's weight onto. Just in this case, the wave doesn't hold you afloat.

It's hard to see whether the capsized ships were snapped in two after the methane hydrate kicked in, but from the sounds of things, they all just flipped over due to a sudden change in buoyancy and stability.

Ryllharu

Fri, 05-23-2008, 06:30 PM

Despite the fact that it was single, enormous bubble, ships cannot support their own weight outside of water without some form of struts or stands.

Whether that was accurately animated, I can't say for sure, but that's what happens.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 05-23-2008, 06:51 PM

Will a free-falling ship just break apart if there was no uneven air resistance? I guess the point I was trying to say was that there wasn't a point where a a ship could exert it's weight if it was lifted with an evenly distributed force, hence no need to support it.

Splash!

Sat, 05-24-2008, 01:35 AM

I think what Buffalobiian is saying makes more sense. The reason ships are built on struts is so that the keel of the ship does not support the entire weight of the ship at any point (This is what would happen if the ship was placed on land). In water, hydrostatic pressure forces come into play and are distrubuted across both the keel and the section of the hull that is submerged. This distrubution of force across the bottom ensures that the hull does not split.

Now imagine a torpedo blast right at the center of the keel that momentarily exerts a force (say equal to the ships weight). This is the equivalent to placing the center of the keel of the ship on a sharp point on land (much worse than simply having the entire keel support the weight of the ship which would also result in a snap). Consequently, the torpedo doesnt even necessarily have to exert a force equal to the weight of the ship to still be able to snap it in 2.

Anyways, this isnt really what happens with a big rising air bubble. Turbulent flow regions are created around the air bubble as it goes up and this messes up the normally symmetrical pressure forces being exerted on the hull on either side of the keel. As a result, there is danger of the boat turning over which is exactly what happened in the episode. At no point does the bubble cause the entire wieght of the ship to be supported on the keel.

David75

Sun, 05-25-2008, 12:46 PM

I'm currently downloading it and will check wether there is problem with it (it happened in the past)

[gg] Code Geass R2 - 08 [D4AAD659] mkv HD 343 megabyte @Mininova (http://www.mininova.org/get/1442716)

shinta|hikari

Sun, 05-25-2008, 12:59 PM

I think there will be a recap episode or something next week since there is no preview, dammit.

No (or not enough, but then again that is always the case) C.C., no credit for this episode.

David75

Sun, 05-25-2008, 01:39 PM

I wonder what they can do after such an ep.

if some cheapo were to destroy the iceberg... maybe.

Does Lelouche think he has enough people amongst this large group to help organise a massive rebellion against britania worldwide?

Ryllharu

Sun, 05-25-2008, 02:33 PM

I think there will be a recap episode or something next week since there is no preview, dammit.
It has something to do with some stupid special in Akiba, and the vaguest of attachments to CG because some idol will make her VA debut some time in the future.

It was a very nice touch on Zero's part. Give Nunnally the appearance of being perfectly pure in her intentions, while forcing the burden of shooting or not upon Suzaku and the other Rounds. That way, Nunnally would still look like she had the proper intentions, and her administrators were betraying her and killing one million potentially innocent (but certainly not) people. That in turn would give a huge blow to the reputation of Britannia, possibly causing regions already conquered in believing that Britannia will not honor such treaties, and that ones still fighting have only oblivion as their option to not fighting.

As a bonus, it takes a huge chunk of Area 11's labor base away.

Since Sayako knew that the real Zero was aboard, she now is fully informed of his identity, what he was striving for, and what he just accomplished for Nunnally. I assume that even though she was recruited into the Black Knights, she still very much cared for Lelouch and Nunnally, since the two never once belittled her when she served them.

I'm still left with two questions from this episode:

- I wonder what Viletta will do now. She knows Ogi still cares for her, and is still willing to protect her.

- How exactly is Lelouch and Rollo's absence from school explained? Maybe I missed it, but I would think that the two of them leaving, coinciding with the mass exodus, would light a few bulbs. I would think that the Student Council might notice something, along with affirming the suspicions of both Suzaku and Nunnally.

Yukimura

Sun, 05-25-2008, 02:39 PM

Liked this ep, everything felt like it flowed decently and the story was actually interesting again. Lelouch has made a clean break from Area 11 but now will he fight Britannia on some other front or just let the OotBK settle down in ChIna and move on to some other method of fighting on his own. Either way I hope the next few eps involve more C.C. as she was annoyingly absent most of this episode.

TheBladeChild

Sun, 05-25-2008, 04:50 PM

I loled at this episode. I had "let my people go" ringing in my ear after watching this.

Anyway, Im glad that that the rebellion will leave japan. Iv been looking forward to see how Zero and the OotBKs will fight on the world stage.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 05-25-2008, 04:59 PM

[Eclipse] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 08 h264 1280x720 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2008%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b6CC82EDB%5d.mkv.tor rent)
[Eclipse] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 08 XviD (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2008%20(XviD)%20%5b98CD7A5F%5d.avi.torrent)

narutosharingan

Sun, 05-25-2008, 06:29 PM

That was a well balanced episode, and the manner which Zero escaped was just excellent. Nothing like a little trickery

Inazuma

Sun, 05-25-2008, 06:30 PM

I think that the Chinese Federation will start to pulls some strings from here on as suggested by the talk with Xing Ke.

One cannot guess what will happen in 09 and that's great.

Now on the downside ; who the fuck cares about that stupid special in Akiba

Everon

Sun, 05-25-2008, 08:15 PM

Very interesting. Zero has made the proclamation that nothing can strip a nations identity as long as they have pride. Methinks he's going to be sailing around in the ocean picking up other Numbers to fight for his cause.

How exactly is Lelouch and Rollo's absence from school explained? Maybe I missed it, but I would think that the two of them leaving, coinciding with the mass exodus, would light a few bulbs. I would think that the Student Council might notice something, along with affirming the suspicions of both Suzaku and Nunnally.

It doesn't really matter now if Britainiana knows Zero's identity. They've already exiled him as punishment. He's decided to end his rebellion in Area 11 and give his friends and family a place where they can be at peace. He's moving on and fighting his battle elsewhere.

shinta|hikari

Sun, 05-25-2008, 10:17 PM

It does matter, since if he causes too much of a ruckus, there is always Nunnally to take as a hostage and use against him.

Still, it was a dangerous gamble. There is no way Lelouch can be sure how Suzaku has changed in that year. He might very well have ordered the execution of the BKs. What I hate about this episode is the fact that it opened up the possibility of having Suzaku and Lelouch eventually teaming up, especially with Suzaku's doubt about Lelouch's intentions with regards to Euphy's death.

animus

Sun, 05-25-2008, 11:57 PM

Who put the first candle in that pond thingy that already had Euphemia on it? Was it Lelouch? Cornelia?

And Xing Ke has a life-threatening disease I guess? We need to see more of him, tbh. His fighting skills seem to be on par with Suzaku's, and his logic and thinking skills seems to be quite adequate as well.

NeoBear

Mon, 05-26-2008, 12:06 AM

i cant beleave nobody comented on 17:38 lower right corner i loled so hard i woke up my wife i still giggle

Board of Command

Mon, 05-26-2008, 12:09 AM

This was clearly inspired by V for Vendetta.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 05-26-2008, 05:57 AM

With this episode, we finally see a major advancement in plot. Sure, the last couple of eps were dealing with some of the problems that happened during the year break, winning a love deprived brother, and doing some of the good (but repeated) feats from last season. This last move takes Zero's fight to a new level, and potentially acquiring other resistance armies as allies, starting with the Chinese Federation.

What I liked was that they finally tried something new (if you don't count the Methane Hydrate), and revived the awesome trickery that was CG S1.

As for Suzaku and Lelouch potentially teaming up, I guess I don't really mind as long as it leads there naturally, rather than a forced ending because the director wants it to end that way.

David75

Mon, 05-26-2008, 06:22 AM

The way I see things Suzaku may be the one to make Lelouche's dream come true.
He will be the one living in a beautiful world of peace with Nunally, thanks to Lelouche of course.

At least for some days/weeks it's what will happen in area 11.
It's not sure it will last, but in a way, it is already happening.

KrayZ33

Mon, 05-26-2008, 06:55 AM

This episode was awesome, even though it was a bit funny with all those Zero's there but still it was awesome...

and it felt like i was watching a movie or something? this were only 24 minutesright? and yet SOOOOO much happened! its actually hard to believe

this is the best episode of s2 so far in my opinion! to be honest I thought of stopping watching it because it got boring, but now it got me back

and I start to like anya... she is actually a pretty cute character :P

Haha oh man, it feels like season 2 will end in like ~2 or 3 episodes now.... yet we have so many things left which need explanation etc.

will season 2 also have 26 episodes?

wow... really there was not even a single second which was boring this episode... everything was well done

edit: btw I don't want to make it better than it actually was but really... this episode was very good.

wacapou

Mon, 05-26-2008, 05:47 PM

i cant beleave nobody comented on 17:38 lower right corner i loled so hard i woke up my wife i still giggle

OMG Neko Zero supports the rebellion

DDBen

Tue, 05-27-2008, 02:21 AM

will season 2 also have 26 episodes?

Season 1 was 25 episodes not 26 and season 2 should be 25 episodes as well unless something changed I'm unaware of.

As for the episode this was just excellent overall and definitely gives us tons of options for the future. Thing is they still only have the Gurren for a Mecha right now so I expect the next episode to be them obtaining a lot more Mecha and hopefully a few more ace pilots.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 05-27-2008, 02:22 AM

will season 2 also have 26 episodes?

Season 2 will also have 25 episodes

Edit: DDBen beat me.

Well according to ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=9173), the info's right.

Edit2: Flashy 1 million Zeros distracted me from this. Suzaku's "live" geass is still active. An interesting scenario: What would happen if Nunnaly was in danger, but Suzaku saving her would be suicide. Would he have the willpower to overcome it? I guess with his "live" geass, we can forget about any flashy hero sacrifices from him.

KrayZ33

Tue, 05-27-2008, 07:17 AM

from what we've seen from euphy is that the geass seems to be "resistable" at least for a short time.... so, maybe if he tries hard enough, he will jump into the bullet which is meant for lelouch...

thats the way I think it will end anyways.. suzaku lying in Lelouch's(zero's), lelouch is amazed that he was able to resist the geass effect and crys etc. ^^

Buffalobiian

Tue, 05-27-2008, 08:10 AM

The only problem I have with that is, when you look at how Euphy did it, she was only able to stop herself from killing Suzaku, but was so concentrated in doing that that she couldn't really do anything else. I would think Euphie not killing Suzaku would be somewhere up at the epitome of willpower.

Now, not only would Suzaku have to resist the urge to live, but to then have the co-ordination and movement to go and step/dive in the way and block a bullet, all while having his entire mind concentrating on defying Lelouch's order. It could happen, but it would mean he'd have to love Lelouch more than he loves Euphie. <here be screaming Yaoi fans>

Yukimura

Tue, 05-27-2008, 11:08 AM

Well, Suzaku isn't human so his ability to resist the geass under pressure shouldn't be compared with that of a human. If anyone is going to be able to defy previously established axioms in this show it's going to be Suzaku.

David75

Tue, 05-27-2008, 03:18 PM

Now that's interresting because it loops with the discussion around the guinea pig girl...
The scenario is vicious enough for us not being able to state anything clearly. Did the girl stop because she has been arrested, or because of the hypotetical geass time limit?

It then leads to Suzaku.. maybe he'll have to choose hreoic suicide the day the geass wears out.. or he'll be able to overcome it for seconds as euphie did...

NeoCybercoin

Tue, 05-27-2008, 03:48 PM

Or maybe if he DOES somehow overcome the Geass then Lelouch Geass would be broken. I mean the effect is as powerfull as the Geass itself is right? So if the effect is broken permanently then perhaps Lelouch Geass will be broken.

Ryllharu

Tue, 05-27-2008, 05:10 PM

I like to think about some of the implications they made about Suzaku's geass command. Suzaku clearly put himself into deadly situations over and over again, as some sick twisted penance for what he did to his father and everyone else.

Jumping in front of Lelouch in season 1 eps 1, all the fun with the Lancelot, etc. Lelouch has almost imposed a punishment on Suzaku, prolonging his self-suffering by forcing him to "live" and defend himself.

Tue, 05-27-2008, 09:32 PM

http://nipponsei.minglong.org/tracker/

If you were waiting for the opening song like me, well its finally released by Nipponsei!

If the ED is out, I'll have this thread title updated so just post and I'll do that so everyone else knows. Enjoy!

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-27-2008, 11:07 PM

But that definitely was not his intent, and that is what Suzaku is wondering about. How can someone who cares for him enough to waste a command to save his life (while Suzaku was trying to kill Zero BTW) kill Euphy?

I actually thought that the reason Euphy was able to resist the geass is not solely because of willpower, but also because she was near death. Maybe when one is about to die, the geass starts to weaken, and thus easier to break free from.

Buffalobiian

Wed, 05-28-2008, 12:25 AM

Ooh, nice. Thanks for that NM. *downloads*

Buffalobiian

Wed, 05-28-2008, 02:20 AM

Two more things worth mentioning about this episode.

1) Schneizel wants a nuke. For what ever reason he wants it for, I think he'll have a successful model by the end of the series, if not earlier.

2) Lloyd is not a guy. No guy can stare elsewhere.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9854/codegeassr208large13sf2.jpg

Chiodos

Wed, 05-28-2008, 04:37 AM

......maybe he's satisfied with the one that used to hang out with Lelouch and gang, the one with the glasses?...

OR!!

...he's having heavy sexuall fantasies in his mind atm?
And no, not me... -_-

Kraco

Wed, 05-28-2008, 05:49 AM

Lloyd only cares about his technological toys. He's that kind of a man. Maybe if Cecile was an android or at least a cyborg he would be all over her...

KrayZ33

Wed, 05-28-2008, 07:05 AM

I actually thought that the reason Euphy was able to resist the geass is not solely because of willpower, but also because she was near death. Maybe when one is about to die, the geass starts to weaken, and thus easier to break free from.

When I said Euphy was able to resist the geass effect for a while, I wasn't acutally thinking about her not killing Suzaku

When Lelouch gave her the command (by accident) to kill all elevens she struggled really hard and the geass wasn't taking effect... it was like she was fighting the command which takes over her body and lost the fight after a shortly after

In all other cases the effect took place DIRECTLY after the command was given... in Euphy's case however, it did not.
So with pure willpower it might be possible to resist it for a short moment.

Chiodos

Wed, 05-28-2008, 10:23 AM

There arent that many up to the task to prove that they can resist, or atleast try to resist the Geass for the moment.
What I see, Euphie was just one case. Hopefully, we will not see another one.

DDBen

Wed, 05-28-2008, 11:11 AM

I find it interesting nobody is discussing the parts of this episode I found the most important.

1. Euphie on the candle was clearly done by either Lelouch or Cordelia and as the latter is missing I think Suzaku assumed it was done by Lelouch.

2. Suzaku made mention that he really wants to talk to Lelouch about what happened with Euphie because he figured out that he wouldn't order her to do that based on him ordering Suzaku to live.

Essentially it seems Suzaku is really starting to consider what lies he's been told by V.V. and Charles and it seems like he's actually wavering from his completely loyal change it from within for the first time in a long time.

KrayZ33

Wed, 05-28-2008, 11:18 AM

DDBen

Wed, 05-28-2008, 11:46 AM

well we don't discuss this because everyone agrees

at least thats why I didn't bring this up.
but is he really "wavering from his completely loyal change it from within" ?

I don't think so, actually the fact that lelouch left him and Nunally to reign over "japan" gives him the feeling that he does the right thing and that it is possible to reach a peaceful "Japan" this way

This would be correct if Suzaku stays in Japan from now on. Of course there is ZERO chance of that happening if Zero is causing a much larger rebellion somewhere else. The fact he made reference to be willing to hear out Lelouch certainly to me at least means that he still somewhere deep inside wants to believe and support his friend. Its the first time he hasn't felt his choice was unconditionally correct. Even if he was wrong in the past he would still believe that he must have done the right thing to move on with his current plans.

And its not like the king and V.V. knew that it was an accident right? so its not really a lie

I would argue the complete opposite here. There is no question that the Emperor choose very carefully who he sent to govern Japan. There is no question he knew of the connection between Lelouch's mother and Cornelia and Zero chance he didn't know of the relationship between Euphie and Lelouch as children. He's playing his pieces in order to get the strongest to survive and challenge him.

So V.V. almost certainly knew for Lelouch to kill someone that important to him like that something must have gone incredibly wrong and without question that was made certain when they found him with a Geass unable to be turned off.

KrayZ33

Wed, 05-28-2008, 12:49 PM

Kraco

Wed, 05-28-2008, 01:44 PM

Since Rollo very likely follows Lelouch anywhere he goes, Viletta can try to cover her guilt by claiming Rollo helped Lelouch to keep his secret. It won't save her career for she failed nonetheless but maybe her neck. Of course it would be ideal if she followed Ougi, but I doubt she can swallow her ambition and Britannian pride and head for a voluntary exile.

Buffalobiian

Wed, 05-28-2008, 06:07 PM

btw another interesting question is... will Zero still go to school?

If not... then.. well what will happen to the woman (forgot her name) who loves Ohgi?
Suzaku will know that Lelouch's memory returned for sure, and then he will begin to ask questions why Rollo and that woman didn't notice it and so on

Acutally everyone will know that Lelouch is, at least, a Member of the Black Knights.

They were last seen packing, so perhaps they organised a holiday or something to cover the fact that they're leaving. It shouldn't be the last time we see Lelouch at the academy, but I think he's leaving for the time being. He'll also have to interact with the Chinese Federation. You can't ask that big a favour and not at least greet them, really.

KrayZ33

Thu, 05-29-2008, 03:35 AM

and there was another thing I did not understand

Lelouch revealed his face to his "maid"... ok this itsself is not a problem because he didn't act like Zero himself when he said that "Zero prepared everything" etc

BUT... I'm not too sure anymore right now, but wasn't the maid @ nunallys side even after the revolution etc.?

And why is she on that ship anyways, I know that she is a Number, but a rebell?

Ryllharu

Thu, 05-29-2008, 03:38 AM

@KrayZ33:

Since Sayako knew that the real Zero was aboard, she now is fully informed of his identity, what he was striving for, and what he just accomplished for Nunnally. I assume that even though she was recruited into the Black Knights, she still very much cared for Lelouch and Nunnally, since the two never once belittled her when she served them.
In threads that are dozens of pages, I understand, but this one isn't that long...but all the Black Knights things with Sayoko was in the final four episodes of season 1.

Deithard recruited her into the Intelligence side of the Black Knights back in season 1. She's the one that set off the Gefjun disrupter that trapped Suzaku at the Academy in eps 25-26.

....Not to mention they've shown her in the OP of every episode this season on the Black Knight's side, and we've seen her in China with Diethard, Kaguya, and Raksharta no less than 3 times.

KrayZ33

Thu, 05-29-2008, 03:52 AM

Oops sry

well I don't remember much from season 1... and I'm not the one who watches Openings over and over again. So I didn't notice that.

However "ignoring" your post on the first page is unforgivable :P
I joined the conversation when I made my first post and I was so amazed by this episode that I simply forgot to read the stuff which was alrdy postet hehe...

(I don't read it before I watch the episode because of spoilers etc)

KrayZ33

Thu, 05-29-2008, 08:10 AM

Hmmm I don't like the whole thing... in my opinion the TV-sized version sounds much better!
even though I somehow like this "effect" @ 0:34 ^^

its good up to ~2:30

Buffalobiian

Thu, 05-29-2008, 10:35 AM

Hmmm I don't like the whole thing... in my opinion the TV-sized version sounds much better!
even though I somehow like this "effect" @ 0:34 ^^

That's probably the catchiest part of the whole song. Like you said, it just sorta fell apart at the end. Doesn't have the same feel to it anymore.

As for the third song.....wtf. And they manage to do it for 8:10

Maybe I just don't appreciate their style much. I do like the OP, both tv and long version. It's not the best, but there's MUCH worse.

Fri, 05-30-2008, 07:35 PM

Both versions are pretty good but I think I'm leaning towards the tv version like you guys. I find myself listening to the full version alot lately though...

Ryllharu

Sun, 06-01-2008, 07:32 AM

I do not see this deserving it's own thread, as it should have been attached to this episode.

As this week's episode was replaced with something stupid, all we get this week is a preview for next week:

[gg] Code Geass R2 - 09-10 Preview (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/%5Bgg%5D_Code_Geass_R2_-_09-10_Preview_%5B6880E461%5D.mkv.torrent)

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-01-2008, 09:21 AM

See no reason to whine, we already knew that we wouldn't get the episode this week and we know why, so let's just be happy instead that we get a double-ep for next week.

Ryllharu

Sun, 06-01-2008, 09:54 AM

I don't believe I was conveying a whining tone of any sort. We knew last week that a special just like every run-of-the-mill variety show on Japanese television was superseding this week's episode, with only the loosest of connections to the actual series (a voice actress playing some side character). Given that those kind of shows rarely (if ever) appear on American television anymore, I do not think I was out of line describing it "stupid."

(Though now this post carries a "defensive" tone due to your misconstrued view on the tone of my last post.)

Deadfire

Sun, 06-01-2008, 07:42 PM

vejita613

Sun, 06-01-2008, 07:49 PM

Since its previewing episodes 9 and 10....Im assuming that both will come out next week?

Buffalobiian

Sun, 06-01-2008, 08:12 PM

Since its previewing episodes 9 and 10....Im assuming that both will come out next week?

I didn't think of that. But if that's the case...:D

From the preview though, I'm surprised the BK and the Chinese are having a conflict so early.

vejita613

Mon, 06-02-2008, 04:35 AM

http://www.ggkthx.org/

It appears that I am wrong =/

shinta|hikari

Sun, 06-08-2008, 12:02 PM

Here it is.

Code Geass R2: Episode 09 by Chihiro (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=21919)

EDIT: I will wait for more people to watch it before I comment.

Wait, does this mean only one episode will get released this week? Then the preview from before is a gigantic spoiler.

David75

Sun, 06-08-2008, 12:58 PM

Thanks for the link.

Will watch it ASAP (after formula 1) and update.

I'm just baffled at this show.
I can't say more because everyone should rejoice watching it without any hints!

shinta|hikari

Sun, 06-08-2008, 02:37 PM

Here is the gg one.

Code Geass R2: Episode 09 by gg. (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/%5bgg%5d_Code_Geass_R2_-_09_%5b95DB150A%5d.mkv.torrent)

Darknodin

Sun, 06-08-2008, 03:03 PM

shinta|hikari

Sun, 06-08-2008, 03:10 PM

Don't worry. I am not planning to discuss it here. Rather, my comment should serve as a warning for others who do not want to be spoiled before watching this episode.

Lelouch almost died in S1 because of his pride. Remember when he tried to confront Cornelia despite C.C.'s warnings and had to get his ass saved. That was all because of his pride.

David75

Sun, 06-08-2008, 03:11 PM

I didn't watch last week's preview, and i guess others didn't either, so if its such a spoiler, it'd be nice not to discuss it here!

I find it weird that Zero lost to his brother because of pride. I don't remember him being in such a situation before, but he's shown enough ruthlessness before that pride shouldn't get in the way of his objectives.
Schneizel's last move was forbidden.
But Lelouch couldn't use that argument since this move was all about innerfire and white king action, with pure intentions and so on.
Should Lelouch argue, he would've been seen as cheap. Truth is the match was a draw, that's all. They needed to play again. But to me a draw is already a loss for Lelouch, more over he was clearly inferor as the threefold was due to him having no more options for he lost too many pieces.

Scheizel's last move was impossible rule wise, then useless chess wise.
But was very important for image and to understand his oponent's psychology, as he stated.

shinta|hikari

Sun, 06-08-2008, 03:24 PM

But the threefold rule is a draw for a reason. The fact that Lelouch was able to make such a situation possible despite having fewer pieces is a testament to his skill, which even Schneizel recognizes rivals his own. As I am sure you know, the number of pieces on hand is only a small part of chess. Positioning is also key.

The move was indeed illegal according to chess rules, but the rationale behind that is because it would be like surrendering by allowing the opponent to take the King (which is done by resigning, and only a fool would do it by mistake). The chess match was a definite draw, but Lelouch lost the more important battle this time by letting his personality be read by his opponent, a fatal mistake, but also a great opportunity in the future if he is able to deal with his prideful stubbornness.

Ryllharu

Sun, 06-08-2008, 03:42 PM

Well, Tian Zi is cute. A little annoying at the end repeatedly calling for Xing Ke, but cute nonetheless.

I think if there is anything that pisses me off more than some of the shit the Britannian's and Suzaku have been doing, it's slimy ministers like the eunuchs that use their leader as a puppet for their own ends.

Still, the one that really shined for me this episode was Kaguya. She's very close friends with Tian Zi, so that should impart some trust of Zero in Tian Zi. Not to mention her excellent verbal sparring with Suzaku and Schnizel when the three of them entered. Just as she moves normally, she spun and danced all around the political bullshit and made Suzaku lose some face.

Five stars for Milly's dress.

Now there are plenty more reasons to hate Nina. From all her hyperlesbian cries for her fallen idol, insults to Suzaku, downright nasty words for her best friend, and all the other whining, there won't ever be a time or any conditions I would not hate her. Especially for the way she treated Milly. She's blind if she thinks that Milly never did anything for her. She put herself squarely in the middle of the absolute highest amount of danger when she tried to persuade Nina out of the Nuclear Knightmare. Nina is so disgustingly blinded by Euphie it is sickening.

At least Kallen showed her what for.

RyougaZell

Sun, 06-08-2008, 03:54 PM

And we get yet another Kallen x Lelouch moment, whereas we also get a C.C. x Pizza moment xD

Kraco

Sun, 06-08-2008, 04:29 PM

This series needs more C.C.! It's as if she has become just another background character.

Quite interesting development. Lelouch's plan can't be as brutish as it seems at the end of this episode, I reckon, but exactly what it contains remains to be seen. He might geass Tian Zi for forced cooperation, and it might not even be a bad thing, but who knows. I guess it depends on the complexity of his plan. But with his geass plans don't need to be so complex. We can't forget, either, that there are still some high ranking British people in the country, so Lelouch would also have chances to orchestrate a conflict causing a war between Britannia and China, thus sealing China's destiny to a one favorable to the Black Knights.

In any case it's high time for action, and the next ep should have some. With or without our old immortal friend: Orange-kun.

Edit: Oh. Where's Rollo? Was he in this ep?

animus

Sun, 06-08-2008, 04:55 PM

Yeah, I didn't see Rollo anywhere. Maybe he's on a mission by his lonesome?

Wonder what this means for Xing Ke? He tries to topple the Black Knights?

Kraco

Sun, 06-08-2008, 05:29 PM

Wonder what this means for Xing Ke? He tries to topple the Black Knights?

That's a very good question. I don't generally discount anything Lelouch does as sloppiness or lack of planning, and thus I reckon there almost has to be a reason why he pissed off Xing Ke. After all, he could have simply cooperated as well, but now Lelouch pretty much opposed him. Thus it seems like a bit too easy option that Lelouch would simply geass the empress and thus ultimately gain also Xing Ke, because the dude wouldn't probably disobey should Tian Zi ask for something. However, such a thing would render Lelouch's brutish act somewhat redudant.

I seem to remember Xing Ke coughing up blood in the previous episode, so I deem he is going to die soon. This makes me think Lelouch intends to use him for some nefarious plot that somehow either makes the Chinese like the Black Knights more or China and Britannia hate each other more. Well, it could be something else as well, but I don't believe Lelouch would simply piss off a man of his calibre for no reason at all.

It's also worth remembering that since Kaguya likes Tian Zi so much, I can't see Lelouch mistreating her too much.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 06-08-2008, 05:38 PM

[Eclipse] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 09 h264 1280x720 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2009%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b7169D000%5d.mkv.tor rent)
[Eclipse] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 09 xvid (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2009%20(XviD)%20%5b82B44946%5d.avi.torrent)

MFauli

Sun, 06-08-2008, 05:59 PM

Uh, just watched the episode.
What a shitty one.

Having seen this episode i have to say that the 1st season was far better.
The 2nd seasons seems to get nowhere. This episode hat so much unnecessary scenes...
And Zero just cant win in this season...the chess-play was cancelled, sigh.

and wth was that cheap scene change...at one moment we saw the celebration, the next we´re at the wedding...i thought the episode was over and it was the preview for next week, but now...was weird.
And the "Xing Ke...Xing Ke....Xing Ke"...was extremely embarrassing to watch. The ridiculous movement of the little princess, lol. Felt retarded.

I really hope they speed up the important parts of the story, right now it all feels so unimportant.

animus

Sun, 06-08-2008, 06:10 PM

Board of Command

Sun, 06-08-2008, 06:50 PM

animus

Sun, 06-08-2008, 07:01 PM

He wanted to see Lelouch explaining in full detail his plan to crash the wedding clearly.

Board of Command

Sun, 06-08-2008, 07:13 PM

That would have been epic.

Idealistic

Sun, 06-08-2008, 07:35 PM

^^ I wanted more Kallen x Lelouch in between.

And I never noticed Milly being that big. lawl.

Questions about the manga, how many chapters are there so far? Is it finished? And about what chapter is the anime around? Just wondering, because this series is too good and I don't want it to end with just 2 seasons. :(

Board of Command

Sun, 06-08-2008, 08:00 PM

The TV series actually comes before the manga. They just make it up as they go along.

Darknodin

Sun, 06-08-2008, 08:16 PM

I for one want this series to end with just two seasons... I hate it when shows never end. at worst, they can do an "episode 2" type of sequel like in Macross. But they must finish this particular story.

Orange for Emperor!

Idealistic

Sun, 06-08-2008, 08:38 PM

The TV series actually comes before the manga. They just make it up as they go along.

Oh I see..

btw.... Is that Orange-kun at the end?

Ryllharu

Sun, 06-08-2008, 08:44 PM

- Location of Rollo: He's with the rest of the student council back in Japan strangely enough. You can see him sitting in a chair behind Rivalz and Shirely while Rivalz yells about the broadcast cutting out.

- Yes, Milly has always been that big. Her uniform has been a very snug fit since episode 1 of season 1.

- C.C. has become a titular character, and to be honest it is a bit disappointing. I'm sure with Orange returning, she'll become much more important, but I'll admit while all the Kallen development is great, this season is severely lacking in the C.C. x Lelouch interaction that made the first season so much fun to watch. No one verbally foils him quite as well.

Splash!

Sun, 06-08-2008, 10:23 PM

Jeremiah seems to be at the heart of some research project to develop an artificial geass, which seems very close to completion. His conversation with V.V this episode makes me believe even more so that this is true. They still haven't explained what happened with him and C.C last season. I wonder if the emperor's researchers were somehow able to capture C.C, and obtain from her what they needed to finish their research. At this point, the emperor just seems to want her dead.

Also, in regards to Lelouch's geass inhibiting lense, which has been discussed in a past thread, I am sure its not a very specific type of lense that could ONLY be useful to Lelouch. It would be too convenient for C.C to have something like that. Geass seems to manifest itself in very different ways for different users, which leads me to believe that the lense could be useful for inhibiting any number of geass abilities. How does C.C happen to have a special lense like that, and if she has always had access to such items, why couldn't she have used something like that to help out Mao in the past?

I wonder if this lense is based on the same 'technology' as whatever Jeremiah is covering his eye with to keep himself sane. A rendezvous with Britannian researchers would sure explain why she just happens to have one of these things on her.

Btw, this is just random speculation.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 06-08-2008, 11:59 PM

It would be nice if it turned out like that, or similar. C.C's mystery's been a key part of the story for the earlier parts of Season 1, and it would suck for her clash of agenda with V.V. to simply become a side story along side Lelouch's. I suspect we'll be let in to the full details of Lelouch's plan next episode, but through characters like Kallen and Toudou as they realise what's going on.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 06-09-2008, 01:14 AM

I am pretty sure the reason why there is very little screen time for C.C. is because she and her story are going to take over the entire show for the entire second half. Nothing about her has been explained yet, and it was never code geass style to just reveal everything in one go, so I bet there will be a series of events that will develop her character, and consequently her relationship with Lelouch. I have to admit this is partly wishful thinking (and still does not excuse the absence of the best character in the show as well as all of anime) but geass has yet to give me any major disappointment. In fact, I am quite surprised I am enjoying the show this much with only 7 seconds of C.C. in the entire episode.

Will it end with this season? I highly doubt it. I think they are going to milk this extremely popular franchise for another season.

Kraco

Mon, 06-09-2008, 01:40 AM

Will it end with this season? I highly doubt it. I think they are going to milk this extremely popular franchise for another season.

I wonder about that. It's pretty clear story wise it wasn't meant to end with only one season, so it's reasonable to think they wrote a manuscript worth two seasons at least. However, I don't think in the anime industry it's any given fact an anime original show will be a huge success like you could assume an anime based on a very popular manga could be. If Geass had been less popular we would probably have been left with an unconclusive or shortened ending at the end of the season one. However, writing three seasons worth of scripts when you don't know if the thing will win or fail..? I don't know. I could see this ending with just two seasons. It could be a bad sign if it continues to a third season as it just might mean they are stretching the story.

MFauli

Mon, 06-09-2008, 05:32 AM

I don't even know where to start...

You rant about the "unnecessary scenes", yet you don't like how they skipped right to the wedding. Everything in between would have been unnecessary. The party thing took place late at night, and the wedding was in the next morning. What would you like to see in between?

See, in season one of Code Geass, it went from one exciting mission to another.
Remember Lelouch´ first appearance as he lead the terrorists.
Then we have the big battle on that mountain, where Cornelia participated.
Then there´s these other japanese liberation front, that "kidnapped" a whole building, where Euphemia was, accidently, as well.

And so on.
Season 2 has nothing like that, even more so, it seems all plans of Lelouch fail, at least to some degree. He couldnt save his sister, he couldnt clearly win the chess-game, and and and.

What i mean with "unncecessary scenes" is, that the introduction to the celebration was way too long. They should have started the chess game earlier, focused on it, Lelouch should have won, thus being able to go on with his plan of overtaking the whole group of people with his Geass, and so on. But nothing. The series was more straight forward in season one. Maybe you can understand that. I mean, Code Geass season 2 is far from being really bad, but i liked season 1 better.

David75

Mon, 06-09-2008, 05:52 AM

Well in season 1, he was more playing wit the surprise effect and the advantage his geass gave him.
But the opposition he had wasn't high enough.

In season 2 he his facing stronger ennemies and clearly needs to change how he acts, or maybe he already shows his limits, although he has a geass.

The scenarists show that past the surprise effect, things get more difficult and you may have difficult times. that's facing it and maybe be able to go through that make the show even more interresting. Or you have yet another show with the invicible lead character, that always win no matter what, without even scratching his principles and morals...

Lelouch isn't that typical character, he had difficult times, was strong at some points, is again facing difficult times/choices... had to scratch his principles and morals and still is fighting. He is more than a two dimensional character that are Pure and Strong...

KrayZ33

Mon, 06-09-2008, 05:58 AM

See, in season one of Code Geass, it went from one exciting mission to another.
Remember Lelouch´ first appearance as he lead the terrorists.
Then we have the big battle on that mountain, where Cornelia participated.
Then there´s these other japanese liberation front, that "kidnapped" a whole building, where Euphemia was, accidently, as well.

And so on.
Season 2 has nothing like that, even more so, it seems all plans of Lelouch fail, at least to some degree. He couldnt save his sister, he couldnt clearly win the chess-game, and and and.

What i mean with "unncecessary scenes" is, that the introduction to the celebration was way too long. They should have started the chess game earlier, focused on it, Lelouch should have won, thus being able to go on with his plan of overtaking the whole group of people with his Geass, and so on. But nothing. The series was more straight forward in season one. Maybe you can understand that. I mean, Code Geass season 2 is far from being really bad, but i liked season 1 better.

More action =/= better

I like these mind games more than this senseless fighting in season 1.
Lelouch was always like "we have to prove that the japanese people are alive" and the next episode "we have to prove that the japanese people are strong"

and all in all everything went according to his plan which was actually pretty boring compared to this here, where he finally matches someone as intelligent as himself.
Not only that, he's in a real dilemma which makes everything even more exciting.
How will he get out of this?

And on the other side.. what are you expecting? Lelouch clearly lost(!) in season 1... He has to build everything up again, which isn't as easy as it was before because the enemy knew who he was and start to get a hang about Lelouch tactics, plus Britania is even stronger now, since they focus on the elevens... back then cornelia for example joined the fight very late... because they thought its just a "small" rebellion caused by some mere terrorist. The matter got much more serious towards the end and actually that was the time when Lelouch started loosing, even though his forces were much greater than they are right now.

Season one started with some dumb people getting beaten up by Lelouch and his Black Knights

Season two however... starts with the round of knights, the prince, the king and on top of that... everyone is prepared for lelouch revival.
And the most important part, Lelouch's only trump card in season 1 (which is the reason why he actually was able to win so much), the geass, is exposed... many important characters in season 2 know about it, and he's practically never able to use it. Season 1 depended on the geass to much, which is shown with the "all-time-active"-geass he gained...
In season 2 he rarely use it, because he can't

kenren

Mon, 06-09-2008, 06:21 AM

Now there are plenty more reasons to hate Nina. From all her hyperlesbian cries for her fallen idol, insults to Suzaku, downright nasty words for her best friend, and all the other whining, there won't ever be a time or any conditions I would not hate her. Especially for the way she treated Milly. She's blind if she thinks that Milly never did anything for her. She put herself squarely in the middle of the absolute highest amount of danger when she tried to persuade Nina out of the Nuclear Knightmare. Nina is so disgustingly blinded by Euphie it is sickening.

This is very true. I couldn't agree more. :)

It's unexpected to me that Zero held the Empress as hostage. I thought Zero would help Xing Ke with the rebellion >.<.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 06-09-2008, 06:52 AM

Question is now, what Lelouch intends to do. I can't remember if he wants to destroy the Federation, or take control of it (brain's fried from exams, and I'm not even half way through). Either way, now that he's out of Area 11 and fighting on the world stage, he'll need to gather his resources. He's got backing from India right now, who themselves want to break away from the Chinese. Should the they fall apart right here now, India would have no more incentive to provide any more aid. Of course, should his plan be actually helping Xing Ke and his men, and the Empress recognises that after taking a position of power, then he'll be able to play with Britannia.

KrayZ33

Mon, 06-09-2008, 08:11 AM

He takes the empress with him, cast the geass upon her and make her his slave.
like he did to the chinese messanger maybe. Thats what I thought he will do when he said "I'll take the empress with me"... but I'm pretty sure Zero will shock me once again and do something I'd never think about.
With the Chinese Federation at his side, a lot of things can happen ^^.
Well.. I doubt however that Lelouch is *that* cruel towards a small child.. especially someone like her.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 06-09-2008, 09:56 AM

Someone like Nunally, especially.

As of recent, it seems Lelouch has become more of a nice guy, with his new values considered. His invitation to Kallen shows this.

KrayZ33

Mon, 06-09-2008, 10:18 AM

As of recent, it seems Lelouch has become more of a nice guy, with his new values considered.

Yet his voice becomes more and more like that of a maniac.. which I totally like btw
his laughter at the end of this episode is what I seek in anime! I feel a chill everytime when I see someone acting all mighty and superior

poor Empress Tianzi though :(, don't hurt the lolis Lelouch! ya hear me!?

uhm btw.. I have a question: On which side is Russia in this war of the 3 big nations? They can't possibly be neutral... and it would be odd if they joined the EU forces because of political stuff etc.
Well, ok its a fictional "world" but I really wonder what they are doing, Russia is a big country it should be strong, they might lack economical strength but manpower alone can do a lot of things

Tyreal

Mon, 06-09-2008, 10:23 AM

uhm btw.. I have a question: On which side is Russia in this war of the 3 big nations?

Russia is part of the E.U.

DDBen

Mon, 06-09-2008, 12:41 PM

Also, in regards to Lelouch's geass inhibiting lens, which has been discussed in a past thread, I am sure its not a very specific type of lens that could ONLY be useful to Lelouch. It would be too convenient for C.C to have something like that. Geass seems to manifest itself in very different ways for different users, which leads me to believe that the lense could be useful for inhibiting any number of geass abilities. How does C.C happen to have a special lense like that, and if she has always had access to such items, why couldn't she have used something like that to help out Mao in the past?

I wonder if this lense is based on the same 'technology' as whatever Jeremiah is covering his eye with to keep himself sane. A rendezvous with Britannian researchers would sure explain why she just happens to have one of these things on her.

Btw, this is just random speculation.

Some things here. First off its very likely the lens was developed to help Mao in the past. Next C.C. specifically stated that once your Geass gets to strong it may no longer work. This tells me that Mao's geass likely became to strong for the lens to prevent it and likely when C.C. left Mao or while with him she squirreled it away somewhere.

Ryllharu

Mon, 06-09-2008, 03:31 PM

Some things here. First off its very likely the lens was developed to help Mao in the past. Next C.C. specifically stated that once your Geass gets to strong it may no longer work. This tells me that Mao's geass likely became to strong for the lens to prevent it and likely when C.C. left Mao or while with him she squirreled it away somewhere.I can't believe someone started this up again...

Mao's Geass never required any kind of visual effort like Lelouch's and the Emperor's requires. His is -scratch that-, was more like Rollo's. Look back at the Mao episodes and remember when he was in the Academy library. He could hear the thoughts of everyone in the place, and was as usual, disgusted by their mindless chatter and concentrated back on C.C.'s voice. And before you even say that it had gotten stronger...there were flashbacks from when C.C. was caring for him when he was young...and it was exactly the same then. Maybe the range was less, maybe he could shut them out, but it was still purely based on proximity.

You two are still looking way too much into it. It's just an opaque contact lens from the outside that Lelouch can see through (like a two-way mirror) and it does not allow the visual frequency range light that Lelouch's (and the Emperor's) Geass requires to activate.

DDBen

Mon, 06-09-2008, 03:43 PM

I can't believe someone started this up again...

Mao's Geass never required any kind of visual effort like Lelouch's and the Emperor's requires. His is -scratch that-, was more like Rollo's. Look back at the Mao episodes and remember when he was in the Academy library. He could hear the thoughts of everyone in the place, and was as usual, disgusted by their mindless chatter and concentrated back on C.C.'s voice. And before you even say that it had gotten stronger...there were flashbacks from when C.C. was caring for him when he was young...and it was exactly the same then. Maybe the range was less, maybe he could shut them out, but it was still purely based on proximity.

You two are still looking way too much into it. It's just an opaque contact lens from the outside that Lelouch can see through (like a two-way mirror) and it does not allow the visual frequency range light that Lelouch's (and the Emperor's) Geass requires to activate.

Your assuming that the contact only blocks a visual aspect of the Geass and there is no reason to assume thats actually true. Its possible its more like Kryptonite is to Superman and being the Geass regardless of how it works is manifested in the eye that its simply that your applying it directly to it and suppressing the powers of it no matter what they are or how they work.

Also your assumptions on the past mean little. Those flashbacks could either be before the contact was made or after his Geass became to powerful to be suppressed by it so it means nothing.

edit:
Also note glasses are not enough to block Lelouch's Geass. So there is no reason to presume a normal contact lens would do anything to reduce its effect. Also Why would it stop working if his Geass got more powerful if it was blocking in the manor your claiming that simply doesn't work logically.

Ryllharu

Mon, 06-09-2008, 03:57 PM

The simple fact that Mao's DID NOT WORK THAT WAY. I do not know how to make this any more clear or to convey it to you any other way. It's also clear as day from the flashbacks that it never did. There is absolutely zero proof that CC ever made a fucking worthless (given the way his worked) contact to Mao. I'm invalidating that claim with evidence from last season.

As to whether the contact works the way I believe (following the Keep It Simple Stupid principle) or if it is as you believe, and is some magical (in the context of the way the "thought elevators" work) mystery material, we can't say for sure. Three things will occur:

1. A later episode will prove me correct in that it's blocking some wavelengths of light (assuming Geasses work that way).
2. A later episode will prove you correct in that it is in fact some fantastical material that actually suppresses the capacity of a Geass-type ability from working.
3. The most likely scenario, is that the series will never touch on the contact lens again, because it was just a stupid contact lens that works the same damn way sunglasses or the helmet does (i.e. Geass can't be seen, Geass doesn't work), and the end result will be that the both of us are looking far more deeply into a complete non-issue.

So for the time being, drop it. There is no proof, so let it go until the series presents us with the slightest of information that would allow us to reassess where were are and take a renewed stance on the issue.

We've been through it once before (for longer than we had to), we do not need to revisit it now, and if it so happens to fall that I have been wrong and you are correct, so be it, I will eat my words.

EDIT: Lelouch's Geass goes through regular glasses because you can see through them. Enough to see the symbol in his eye, enough for it to do whatever mumbo-jumbo it does (be it some other wavelength of light, the effort of seeing it at all, whatever). Mao didn't need that. If they were in his range, he heard their thoughts.