Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2

[Kraco]

However I was quite disapointed with character design/art. It really was awkward at times.


That makes it sound like you already forgot the first season. The style has been pretty consistent. It is somewhat awkward in a sense, like in an overly theatrical manner, both poses and speech, but that's what Code Geass is, and it's also one reason why I like it so much. It's not like that because the studio and director would suck but because they decided to pick a style like that.

[David75]

That makes it sound like you already forgot the first season. The style has been pretty consistent. It is somewhat awkward in a sense, like in an overly theatrical manner, both poses and speech, but that's what Code Geass is, and it's also one reason why I like it so much. It's not like that because the studio and director would suck but because they decided to pick a style like that.

I probably forgot, it's just that I felt like it was going a bit too far. I watched season 1 only 2 months ago, but sometimes memory isn't that reliable. I'll screenshot that particular scene this evening.

[Buffalobiian]

Am I missing somethere here? I notice a number of people are suggesting the emperor has more than one Geass/power. Is there any rationale for this, or simple because his Geass appears in both eyes? We haven't exactly encountered many Geass users yet, but the two we're familiar with only have one power, regardless of whether it appears in both eyes or not.

[Inazuma]

Just a question : Is the part where Lelouch puts a coat on Kallen's shoulder a sort of reverence to Ghost in the shell. Or is it more random ?

[shinta|hikari]

I'm guessing the easiest way to temporarily seal the geass is to use an opaque contact lens for his left eye. It will block half his vision, but it shouldn't be too much of a hindrance for simple school life. Sometimes, the easiest solutions are the easiest to miss.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm guessing the easiest way to temporarily seal the geass is to use an opaque contact lens for his left eye. It will block half his vision, but it shouldn't be too much of a hindrance for simple school life. Sometimes, the easiest solutions are the easiest to miss.

That's not a bad idea. However, I think that his cover will be broken too easily that way. All it takes it for a ball to come flying from his left and hit him. People will be like WTF you couldn't see that? That Britannian Purist teacher will be on the look out, that's for sure.

[Everon]

Are you talking about Rolo -- the mysterious brother? He could simply be able to turn off his geass.

Fun episode, I want to see a jailbreak soon.

[Buffalobiian]

Fun episode, I want to see a jailbreak soon.

I wonder what Lelouch would do. Returning the Order to full power is a definite priority, but Britannia would definitely expect the jailbreak. A direct confrontation would probably wipe out the BKs. CG awesomeness continues......

[Kraco]

A direct confrontation would probably wipe out the BKs. CG awesomeness continues......

Direct confrontation? That's not exactly the kind of term I've come to associate with Lelouch, you know. Unless the BK is still far more powerful than I think, it seems likely some nefarious plot would be used to rescue the pows. All the better, of course. Especially when they are against so ridiculous enemy mechas.

[Buffalobiian]

By direct confrontation, I meant something similar to what they pulled off at the end of last season. Of course, annihilating the enemy on the word go by collapsing their fortress is hardly direct. i guess I meant more of a frontal confrontation. I assumed the prisoners would be so well guarded that the BKs would have to directly confront and set off alarm bells one way or another.

Of course you can have Lelouch Geass his way through, but you'd think the Emperor would have prepared for that too.

I'td be hard to believe that the Emperor's "other use" for Lelouch was to simply be bait and lure C.C. out. If that was the case, he surely underestimated Lelouch & Co.

@Shinta's contact lens idea: If they do that, Lelouch will not be able to use Geass in an instant, which really inhibits him from effectively using Geass.

[shinta|hikari]

He is in school, so he doesn't really need to use it in an instant, at least for now. I would think maintaining his cover takes priority over the 1 second of delay in using geass in a friendly environment.

EDIT: We shouldn't forget that Zero has a mask that completely covers both eyes, and only opens them through a contraption. That should take about the same time with removing a contact lens, since I use them myself.

[Buffalobiian]

I'll take your word for it. I always thought the slider didn't require any hand movements, so when it opens, it catches the victim in the wtf moment. Removing contacts seems to require too much intervention and action, taking the surprise out of things. But I do find your idea plausible, and it'll work if it ends up that way, but he'll have to explain that he's half blind somehow when it's revealed.

The other reason why I thought he'd be able to turn it off somehow was that C.C said controlling Geass was a requirement of sorts for becoming a true king. Given how C.C warned him so much about overuse and being consumed, I think she treats that requirement quite seriously. Perhaps that's even one of the reasons why she left Mao.

Question that's still not answered in 2 eps: How did C.C. escape from the Gawain/ocean? And Orange-kun?

edit: Since Kallen ran out of the cave, I think she probably helped her.

[DDBen]

A couple things here first off Suzuka isn't suppose to look like a definite bad guy in fact he's technically a high ranking good guy and Zero is the one that is designed to be bad guys.


as for the Emperor's "other use" for Lelouch lets not forget he believes in survival of the fittest and actually if zero dies or kills him its all the same the best man won and will be the new ruler of the empire. He's old and his kids killing each other so the strongest comes to win is what he's been doing the entire time. He isn't out for revenge he doesn't care that Zero killed some of his heirs the same way he couldn't care less Lelouch had his mother killed its just all part of his contest to find a true king end of story.

[Kraco]

A couple things here first off Suzuka isn't suppose to look like a definite bad guy in fact he's technically a high ranking good guy and Zero is the one that is designed to be bad guys.

This isn't a Chinese story. The Britannians are the racist oppressors here. Lelouch is trying to liberate people under that ruthless rule of the fittest. In a sense Lelouch is a criminal in the eyes of the central government but in the end quite a few old democracies of our world were born when such "criminals" rose against absolute monarchies and gave power to the people. So, on the pages of the history books those people surely weren't bad guys (as such. I'm sure in the ranks of any force are people who are in just for the thrill and killing, yet might end up called even heroes).

[DDBen]

This isn't a Chinese story. The Britannians are the racist oppressors here. Lelouch is trying to liberate people under that ruthless rule of the fittest. In a sense Lelouch is a criminal in the eyes of the central government but in the end quite a few old democracies of our world were born when such "criminals" rose against absolute monarchies and gave power to the people. So, on the pages of the history books those people surely weren't bad guys (as such. I'm sure in the ranks of any force are people who are in just for the thrill and killing, yet might end up called even heroes).

my comment was about the character design and the above complaint that Suzaku didn't look enough like a bad guy ala Aizen's change in Bleach. I'm not arguing over who's good and bad in the series its clear enough the viewer is suppose to support Zero. However just looking at the ending where the "good guys" have angel wings and the "bad guys" have demon wings should tell you which character designs are aimed to look like which.

[RyougaZell]

Not trying to go against your post DDBen... but have you ever watched CLAMPs works?

They tend to use Angel wings for the 'bad guys' and Devil Wings for the 'good guys'

For example (without deviating much) take X... Kamui had Devil Wings, as well as the Dragons of Earth (the Seals). They wanted to preserve the current world, despite its wrongness, and save the humans. Fuuma had Angel Wings, and alongside the Dragons of Heaven (the Angels) wanted to purify earth... to save it... by destroying the humans and make the planet reborn.

My point is... with CLAMP designs, never label a good guy for having Angel Wings and a bad guy for having Devil Wings.

[DDBen]

My point is... with CLAMP designs, never label a good guy for having Angel Wings and a bad guy for having Devil Wings.

You did notice I used quotes around good and bad guys I wasn't saying which side is which. Clearly the Japanese perspective and the Britannian perspective differ greatly on that. There is no reason that Suzaku would wear anything to make him look like a bad guy when he is suppose to look like a Angel protecting the empire as one of the highest ranking knights.

I really don't even understand what point your attempting to prove as X has nothing to do with this nor does how clamp uses wings its simply how the factions are designed in Code Geass I was talking about.

[Kraco]

Sorry, I misinterpreted you. Although I personally have no idea what a bad guy should look like and what a good guy should look like. A person's looks have the least to do with his morals, honour, level of compassion, and such, and the most to do with his personal style or job/hobby/aim, or convenience forced by the environment or company. Thus, an intelligent author/director follows such guidelines when planning clothes and appearances.

[RyougaZell]

I really don't even understand what point your attempting to prove as X has nothing to do with this nor does how clamp uses wings its simply how the factions are designed in Code Geass I was talking about.

Well... even if you used "quotes", you clearly based your comments on how the characters were portrayed on the ending sequence, which happens to use CLAMP designs. Geez.

[DDBen]

Well... even if you used "quotes", you clearly based your comments on how the characters were portrayed on the ending sequence, which happens to use CLAMP designs. Geez.

It does use clamp designs but its not written by Clamp its only character designs by them. No matter if someone is good or evil though its pretty easy to stick angel wings on the guys wearing white and Devil wings on the guys wearing black.

The thing is though good or not if your wearing Angel wings you want to LOOK like a good guy and as such the character design of Suzuka has no reason to change because in his mind he's still the good guy. Unlike in bleach where Aizen had played a good guy and later changed his image after becoming a bad guy.

The whole reason for my original post was in response to the earlier post of....


Man... Suzaku doesn't look badass enough to be a bad guy. Bleach did the right thing with Aizen. Aizen didn't look badass enough to be the bad guy, then bam! he loses the glasses and gets a hairstyle change and suddenly looks super badass to be a bad guy.

That reason as I've stated is because his look is dictated by his position in the empire where he is considered a "Good guy". This is why he wears the white uniform and why he has angel wings in the ending. It has nothing to do with if he's actually doing good or evil.

[Buffalobiian]

Can we really label Suzaku as a bad guy? He's melancholy and probably depressed right now, but I'd hesitate to call him bad. He's on the other side, but as of now his motives aren't evil or anything.

Jupiter....possibly C.C's homeland? According to C.C's memories, Jupiter used to be pretty close to Earth. Accessibly close. Reunion of Ragnarök probably means reunion of the two planets. But what's with the weapon used to destroy gods? My imagination tells me that activating all the monuments around the world turns that temple into a cannon or something. As of now, I just don't see what's in it for the Emperor. Guess we'll find out.

note: this ep showed us again that C.C and Lelouch make a great couple. After being separated for so long, they weren't the hot-blooded "oh I miss you so much" type, but instead were unchanged towards each other. They still throw insults at each other, but also talk sweet when they need to. Pretty much the type that lasts and keeps it's flare.

[Yukimura]

Suzaku is at best an aniti-hero type but to me feels more like a misguided bad guy.

He doesn't seem willing to let anything, including his own morals, stand in the way of accomplishing his goal. He was willing to screw over the Japanese people and his closest friend all in the hopes that maybe he'd someday be allowed into the uppermost echelons of Britannian aristocracy so he might "change the system from the inside".

It's certainly not his motives that make him 'bad', it is his methodology. Lelouch does plenty of 'bad' things in order to get himself into a position where he might be able to do good things later. However Lelouch's bad things involve destroying the current power structure and taking control so he can establish a new one. This seems at least feasible since there is no upper limit to what can be destroyed by force.

Where Suzaku's methodology falters is in the assumption that the entrenched Britannian aristocracy will ever give him Noble status and let him set any sort of policy, this is just an unreasonable expectation. Suzaku has set himself up as a dog who's master is the Empire, his stated goal to rise through the ranks of dogs to become a master. However this just isn't going to happen. A master may reward a dog, and hold it above other dogs, and put it in the most prestigious kennel, and give it the finest treatment, but that will never change the fact that the dog is still just a dog. No matter how precious a dog is to a master, it will always be subservient to that master never the other way around.

I think it can be safely argued that the Britannian Empire, as it presently exists, is a 'bad' organization. And as a servant of a 'bad' organization Suzaku often does 'bad' things. Because he is a dog and can never realistically become a master I don't believe that Suzaku's "If you can't beat 'em, join em" attitude is any more than selfish, foolish, idealism taken to an extreme.

If he was trying to do something good but was hurting people along the way I would forgive him if his methodology had at least a chance for real success (i.e. rebellion). But because he doesn't have a real chance at ever changing policy in Britannia by being a good little dog I have no choice but to hold him accountable for all the 'bad' things he's done in the name of Britannia.

[RyougaZell]

It does use clamp designs but its not written by Clamp its only character designs by them. No matter if someone is good or evil though its pretty easy to stick angel wings on the guys wearing white and Devil wings on the guys wearing black.

The thing is though good or not if your wearing Angel wings you want to LOOK like a good guy and as such the character design of Suzuka has no reason to change because in his mind he's still the good guy. Unlike in bleach where Aizen had played a good guy and later changed his image after becoming a bad guy.


Whatever way you try to deny it, you used the wings to show who was evil and who was good. The series may not be by CLAMP, but the ending IS CLAMP. Or do you see the characters dancing around with wings during the episodes?

[Ryllharu]

About the Lelouch contact lens idea: That's brilliant. Simple and effective. It doesn't have to be opaque, just like a two-way mirror. That's essentially how Zero's mask has operated this entire time. It was just a mask with a voice-modulator/amplifier, and a little sliding panel to expose his Geass eye. He could see through it all the time, as he frequently engaged in many types of combat while wearing it.


Where Suzaku's methodology falters is in the assumption that the entrenched Britannian aristocracy will ever give him Noble status and let him set any sort of policy, this is just an unreasonable expectation. Suzaku has set himself up as a dog who's master is the Empire, his stated goal to rise through the ranks of dogs to become a master. However this just isn't going to happen. A master may reward a dog, and hold it above other dogs, and put it in the most prestigious kennel, and give it the finest treatment, but that will never change the fact that the dog is still just a dog. No matter how precious a dog is to a master, it will always be subservient to that master never the other way around.
...
Because he is a dog and can never realistically become a master I don't believe that Suzaku's "If you can't beat 'em, join em" attitude is any more than selfish, foolish, idealism taken to an extreme.
Since the nobility and even Cornelia were getting really uppity about Suzaku potentially becoming Euphie's Knight, I would tend to say that being Knighted by the royalty would grant some title. Cornelia made it completely official after Lelouch geassed her and Suzaku came down to check on her.

Not to mention where Suzaku is now. He's in the super elite Knights of the Round, hand picked by the Emperor. Now, back in mid season, Viletta believed that she could obtain a true noble title for trading in Zero. Shirley put a stop to that, but I don't find it hard to believe that Suzaku trading in the Emperor's wayward son as Zero would give him exactly what Viletta had hoped to gain from the same action.

Sure, no one in the series has said that Knights of the Round = Noble Title, but it has got to be pretty damn close if it isn't.

[David75]

Screenshots I was refering to earlier, only linked as the width would mess with the forum:

http://david.deals.free.fr/karen.jpg
http://david.deals.free.fr/karen2.jpg

I guess I should have reacted before, but in the whole scene, Karen is poorly drawn, her legs are bent like thos of a horse.
Then, two times in the ep there's that angle from down behind her when she's in her knight that are quite cheap.

But I guess I wasn't in synch with that ep regarding visuals, although the story was nice.

On another subject:
Where does the technology Britania has come from?
They state that Britania invaded the world easily thanks to KMs. It seemed to me as if this technology came out of nowhere in a blink of an eye.
Could it be "alien" as in not coming from our earth/plan of existence (if we take "magic" into consideration)

[RyougaZell]

About the Lelouch contact lens idea: That's brilliant. Simple and effective. It doesn't have to be opaque, just like a two-way mirror. That's essentially how Zero's mask has operated this entire time. It was just a mask with a voice-modulator/amplifier, and a little sliding panel to expose his Geass eye. He could see through it all the time, as he frequently engaged in many types of combat while wearing it.



He had a voice-modulator?
I always thought he was only masking the voice himself...
I mean... he sounded the same as 'Zero' when he ordered the soldiers to kill themselves, and while saying he was 'Zero' to Kallen and Urabe.

David:
Those links are kinda dead. Error 404.

[Ryllharu]

You could see a small device (circular, black, wires trailing from it). When he put the mask on dramatically from his point of view, when he had it made, or when Arthur the cat stole it.

The only other option was that it was the motor controlling the sliding piece, but didn't you notice after Lelouch starting using the mask, that his voice always had this slightly robotic and tinny sound to it? Like a soft echo in a metal cup. I thought it was more than just the mask on his face, which alternatively would have produced a muffled sound.

I presumed that was supposed to be used to disguise his voice in case he met anyone that would know him from school. Like Kallen, every day. He had a similar device on his phone when calling the Black Knights, that I assume also made his phone untraceable.

EDIT:
@David: The series always looked that way. Both seasons. See any scene with Nina, and many other ones where characters are shocked, insulted or pissed. Euphie on the island when Kallen calls her a doll, etc. That's just the art style.

As for the Knightmares, "Britannia" is just another name for America. I see the map this season does not include the British Isles. The real life Western Empire (that I hail from) has lots of money and plenty of neat toys too.

Go thinly-veiled political statements in entertainment and blatant references to Jingoism!

[DDBen]

I think it can be safely argued that the Britannian Empire, as it presently exists, is a 'bad' organization. And as a servant of a 'bad' organization Suzaku often does 'bad' things. Because he is a dog and can never realistically become a master I don't believe that Suzaku's "If you can't beat 'em, join em" attitude is any more than selfish, foolish, idealism taken to an extreme.


First let me say I don't disagree with anything you've said and from a third party view or from the view of the Japanese this is entirely true. The place where this view falls apart is when you look at it as a Brittannian instead. There goal is order and if the world is united under one group or goal a lot of things like civil war among earthlings should be reduced and less wars in the long run is a good goal. In the short term taking over contries by force and attempting to unite the planet in a cast based society is on the other hand something you look at as evil.

The system of government is designed to integrate the people over time with rewards for those who choose to do so on there own. Eventually people who become honorary Brittanians that fight for the Empire will be integrated into the Empire and there race won't matter to anyone but the hardliners and sooner or later even that will disappear. Its all a matter of do the ends justify the means and if they win the war and things go as planned the survivors will have no choice but to say it was. History comes down to the good guys are the ones who win and the bad guys are the ones who lose at this point there is no winner however as the main character is Lelouche and as such its very easy to claim his side must be good.

@RyougaZell

If you can't understand the difference of stating in a conversation that something is quote good verses saying something is good I don't know how to explain something that basic to you in any other way. I get how you interpreted what I said but it was not my intention for it to have been taken that way. I've gone out of my way to explain and all you do is continue to insist I can't possibly know my own intentions as well as you do get over yourself.

As far as the wings go.

All the wings represent is basically order vs chaos. You can go with X and say the Angelic side wanted to destroy the chaos and recreate the world as order and the Demonic side wanted to preserve the current chaos its not about good or bad its a battle of ideology. In Code Geass its the same the Brittannian Empire is taking over everything and under one ruler there will be one law and a certain kind of order as a result on the other hand the Black Kniights are fighting to restore the "chaos" of freedom where everyone gets to choose there own path.

[Yukimura]

I would find it very strange indeed that a culture built around conquest could or would want to change gears and start accepting conquered peoples as equal partners in government and I have seen no evidence of that being a high priority in the minds of any of the leaders we've been shown. Psychologically it just doesn't seem to fit that conquerors would happily accept those they chose to conquer as equals without at least a generation or two of integration and hard indoctrination. You don't invade an equal and attempt to eradicate their culture and soul and then decide that you now respect its citizens as equals.

You can label all the people who thought like Orange-kun as hardliners but I look at it this way, how many Britannian commanders/royalty have we been shown who didn't feel that Britanians were naturally superior to non-Britannians and go so far as to not apply value to the life of a non-Britannian?

I believe that the Britannian higher class eats, drinks, and breaths the idea of its own superiority and I can't fathom why such a group of people would ever willingly allow someone not lof their like to control them without being forced by someone like the Emperor or another Royal Family member.

@Ryllharu: Suzaku may be a high rolling Knight of the Round now but all that means is he has a lot of martial power and doesn't have to answer to a long chain of command. It probably gets him some oh's and ah's from the typical hanger's on who populate aristocratic seats of power but I don't think it means he could just go back to Japan and tell the Britanians to be nicer to the Japanese. He's still just a soldier. I'm sure he could wave his status around and scare some small fry administrators and maybe minor nobility, but ultimately he's just a figurehead for the Emperor and he certainly couldn't influence anyone who also has direct ties to the Emperor like a favored Noble.

Of course I must allow for the possibility that Suzaku's smooth talking will somehow make the Emperor change his ways and get him to stop sanctioning the indiscriminate killing of dissenters, but if something like that happens I'll probably curse the show and its creators for life.

[RyougaZell]

@Ryllharu:
I see. I never noticed that thing on the helment. You are right. He did get a more robotized voice when wearing the helment.

@Yuki:
Best example of what you speak is those britannian at the tower, watching eleven battling.

@DDBen:
You have been only avoiding the point. Wheter you quoted or not, you still MADE a comparasion using images from the ending. Do not like comparasions? Please do not use them then.

PS: Do not like me using the rep system? Too bad.

[Buffalobiian]

Time for some new material. Spoiler has been removed.

In an odd twist today, the final six minutes of the third episode of CODE GEASS R2 were leaked a few hours ago.



According to a 2ch post, one of the staff members was arrested, and episode three may not air this weekend (to be decided tomorrow). Supposedly the alternatives are to air either a shortened version of the episode four or nothing at all this weekend while they remake episode three. That’s very disturbing news to say the least, but I can understand why they might feel inclined to do that since the leaked part does have some huge spoilers for the entire episode. And given that they’re thinking about remaking some of it, it’s not even clear if the leaked part is canon anymore. In any case, an official announcement will probably come in the next 24 hours, and I’ll be sure to update this post.

Visit the site if you wish to see what the actual spoiler was. I managed to blur my vision before any of the words made sense. :D.

Anyway, well this sucks. Wonder what they'll make of it. Then again, the ycould just let it air.

[Ryllharu]

I'll pass on the spoilers, I can hold out.

Some of the comments believe that the stuff on 2ch was bullshit. Some believe it is a publicity stunt, others that it was leaked material never meant to be used in the first place. I sincerely doubt they would "skip" straight to episode 4, since so much is packed into these episodes.

They'd be cutting off people who didn't go looking for spoilers, so even if the rampant speculation on 2ch is true (and their speculations are always way out there and/or over the top) there just wouldn't be an episode this week.

I'll keep my skepticism set to maximum, thanks. 2ch is full of shit more often than not. Very similar to the "I was at this family restaurant where there was this guy who is Kishimoto's [Naruto author] best friend from high school's sister's boyfriend's nephew's uncle's (twice removed) ex-wife's gardener who said that [this random event will happen]."

Sure, the leak is real, but I somehow doubt the reaction is.

[RyougaZell]

Meh... like Ryl said, 2ch is full of BS.
I'll probably look for the 'supposed' leaked minutes when the series is over, to see if they really existed and where really cut out or something.

Although I am surprised to see this 'news' on that blog.

[Buffalobiian]

I have no idea what 2ch is, but I don't think I'll bother finding out after reading the two posts above. Randomc has good quality blogs, so since it was on there, I relayed it here.

[RyougaZell]

Japanese forums full of... illegal things... some have been attacked by the police (I think) for having child porn, etc.. (well... not 2ch... but similar)

Think narutofan forums with spam level times 1000

[animus]

I read the spoiler that was on that blog 5 minutes ago, and I honestly completely forgot about it already. Maybe cause it wasn't very significant and I didn't remember or I just have a shitty short term memory.

[Ryllharu]

RyougaZell is close, but missing a few specifics. Let me explain what 2ch is this way:

Take superhardcore okatu and give them a bbs where they can speculate wildly at each other and claim that that will "marry" characters in the future (only unlike the majority of convention fangirls, they are absolutely serious). This can probably be considered one of the major sources of where the cat-variation ascii emoticons came from.

2ch spawned a more perverted offshoot called 2chan, which was ported into english, became even more disturbing, and is known as 4chan. All the rest of the *-chan family of websites comes from this branch in some manner.

2ch --> 2chan --> 4chan

2ch is pretty much just the /a/ and /c/ boards off 4chan, with more subdivisions, but ramp up the baseless speculation a couple thousand percent

-------------------------
Back to topic:

Though it does appear that someone was actually arrested for this. Sunrise caused the leaks, the other three quarters of the episode were intercepted, and the broadcaster and sponsors are the ones most pissed off because of the potential for reduced ratings.

[Buffalobiian]

I managed to see it but not read it. The pics on there didn't tell me anything. The site is safe, spoilers are hidden behind spoiler tags, lest I scared anyone away. It was only when I copied the text onto gotwoot that the spoiler code lost effect.

Since Lelouch is heading back to the academy, do you think Kallen will be there too? We haven't seen her there for a long time, but for all we know, bunny dress-up was probably a part time job.

When Urabe died, he said "sorry Lakshata". If I'm not mistaken, that's Eclipe's version of the Rakshata?

edit:missed Ryl's post.

[Ryllharu]

I suspect that Kallen is still in deep shit with the Britannian government.

She was in the Tower after all, as one of the bunny girls, along with several other Japanese women. The staff were all Japanese, treated as unpaid workers and slaves. One way or another she's branded now.

Her identity as a member of the BKs was public record. Suzaku said he didn't want to report her, but after the fiasco with Euphie and Kallen's repeated refusals to surrender peacefully and back down, I bet he changed his mind. Sure, he let her run off at Kamejima, but a lot of the military should know who she is.

Though, with all the brainwashing going on at the Academy to install Rollo as Lelouch's brother, the others may not remember her role at all. It's possible she could sneak in again and be a student once more.

[TheBladeChild]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this but Rollo has both angel and devil wings in the end theme.

[RyougaZell]

@Buffalobiian:
Sadly I do not see Kallen wearing her school uniform again :( (and she looked hot...)
As Ryl pointed out... she is indeed in deep shit with Britannians.

But one thing... she wasn't working there as many assummed (from previews, etc). Nor she was enslaved... she entered there to approach Lelouch. At least that is my theory

@BladeChild:
Yep. Mentioned before.

[DDBen]

Now for something more relevant I doubt they will pull Code Geass next week it would effect Gundam 00 not just Code Geass if they did that and running a episode out of order in a series like this would cause some SERIOUS issues so it doesn't logically make any sense they would do so.

Also as for Kallen being highly wanted I'm not so sure about that. We didn't see a poster for her like the other Black Knights and one would imagine they would have shown us one stating she was wanted if they ment for us to believe it. I think its quite possible Suzaku really did let her go as she is the only reason he was able to capture Zero in the first place.





@DDBen:
You have been only avoiding the point. Wheter you quoted or not, you still MADE a comparasion using images from the ending. Do not like comparasions? Please do not use them then.

Alright as your unable to understand very basic things I'll waste some time for you and explain a very simple thing you can't seem to understand.

Angels are generally good.
Demons are generally evil.

saying "good" or "bad" means you are referencing what something generally means.

The characters having wings in the end is not a reference to if they are good or bad because really no character is either they are all simply doing what they believe is correct and in some way that means they are both good and bad. Those who are designed in the ending with angel wings are given a clean angelic look in white. Those represented with demon wings are given a tattered bad ass look.

Suzaku is a savior of the Brittanians he stopped Zero who threatened to overthrow the empire and as such his uniform is that of a hero its white and is suppose to make him look regal and like a form of Saint. The Black Knights on the other hand wear uniforms to starkly contrast those of the Brittanians and have overall more demonic mechs/uniforms.

So yes I indeed mentioned the wings but I didn't mention them to state if a side was good or evil in the show. I mentioned them to state if a side is TRYING to LOOK good or evil.

This was all in reference to why Suzaku didn't suddenly change his look to appear as more of a badass like Aizen in Bleach. The main reason for this was both Suzaku never suddenly changed who he was like Aizen and the uniforms of those in the Knights of the Round for Britannia are clearly designed to be white/clean or even angelic to show they are the Angels looking over the Empire.

Your comment about X directly referred to if specific characters were good or evil. This is why your comment had no relevance to my statement because you were attempting to argue that I misstated which side was the good guys and which was the bad guys based on how the actual good guys in X had demon wings while the actual bad guys had Angel wings. If you can't understand this I have no idea what else you want me to say because your blatantly wrong and trying to put words in my mouth.

edit: spelling.

[RyougaZell]

Was gonna answer that post, but I decided to not lose my time, since my points on using X as comparasion were blatantly ignored. Thus, I won't lose my time with useless rants.


Anyway... I looked over the supposed leaked video and I really do not see that much of a 'great spoiler' as randomc.animeblogger.net mentioned.

But like I said before, agreeing with Ryl (who kindly explained the 2ch system better than me), I hope the supposed remaking of the episode is fake.

Oh... and hope the guy that leaked the portion of the ep did not do it just to be funny, to screw us up, or to get money. After the arrests on those leaking manga last year... the last thing we need is to give them more reasons to hunt down uploaders.

[shinta|hikari]

@Ddben - If that was your point, you should not have made a comparison using the ending, since it only confuses everyone, considering the discussion about the ending animation style in the ep1 thread. And please, his name is Suzaku. I'm not one to bother about little details, but if you spell his name incorrectly each time (with different variations at that) it does get puzzling, as well as irritating.

EDIT: don't get me wrong. It is not like I think you are wrong, but mentioning the ending animation was just unnecessary. If you reread your previous post, you explained your opinion more than well enough even without it.

I downloaded the leak, but I'm still deciding whether or not to watch later. Knowing myself, I probably will though...

[RyougaZell]

Im currently downloading it... just in case the supposed rumor of it being changed is true. If it ends fake (most probably) I'll just delete the 40meg file.

Won't watch it until after ep3 is subbed though.

[Kraco]

Well, well. A lot can happen while you are sleeping... I don't pretend to know the minds of the Japanese studios and TV bosses but somehow skipping, postponing or altering the episode due to this leak seems indeed like BS, like has been said many times over. I doubt even in Japan the majority of people would go and hunt down spoilers like that. It's airing on TV there, so you would think they would just watch it on TV or if they don't have the channel, then download the raw of the ep. There seems to be a few people here who spoil themselves with blogs every time before watching an ep, but I refuse to believe that's a majority rule. So, in short, it would be strange to change an ep because of minority actions.

Maybe the studio "leaked" the information about the episode being altered so that even those who spoiled themselves would all watch it nonetheless just to see if it was altered. Although considering how HC they are, they would have watched it anyway, no doubt.

This is honestly like some underhand publicity stunt.

[Buffalobiian]

Well, well. A lot can happen while you are sleeping... I don't pretend to know the minds of the Japanese studios and TV bosses but somehow skipping, postponing or altering the episode due to this leak seems indeed like BS, like has been said many times over. I doubt even in Japan the majority of people would go and hunt down spoilers like that. It's airing on TV there, so you would think they would just watch it on TV or if they don't have the channel, then download the raw of the ep. There seems to be a few people here who spoil themselves with blogs every time before watching an ep, but I refuse to believe that's a majority rule. So, in short, it would be strange to change an ep because of minority actions.

Maybe the studio "leaked" the information about the episode being altered so that even those who spoiled themselves would all watch it nonetheless just to see if it was altered. Although considering how HC they are, they would have watched it anyway, no doubt.

This is honestly like some underhand publicity stunt.

Well, altered or not, it's not like CG will stop. I'll go with that. Back on topic, I don't see why Suzaku would have to give Kallen's name out anyway. He wanted her to change her mind, not capture her. He probably wouldn't have much to gain from giving out her name anyway. Not too many pilots get to see that red Frame and live. Seeing her back at school would be a plus though. I actually enjoyed watching her two different personalities, and just how she copes with it.


There seems to be a few people here who spoil themselves with blogs every time before watching an ep were you hinting me then Kraco:confused:

[Kraco]

Kallen has been the only BK that could really put up any fight against Suzaku. Surely he would keep her secret just for that. I mean, his 1337 skills would be totally wasted if nobody in the rebellion could stand against him for more than 7 seconds. It's much better ordinary Britannian soldiers would be wasted and then the mighty Round Table Suzaku appears and saves the day for the glory of the Empire and the King!

Still, seeing even Lelouch back at school is a little silly. The Empire knows now he has his memories back so he's a threat once again. It doesn't really matter what the other students of the school know. They kept Lelouch "free" only because his memories were wiped, after all, and he was a living bait. That all should have changed now.


were you hinting me then Kraco:confused:

Heh. I haven't kept any names in memory, but I know I've seen some people refer to reading blogs several times during my stay here. But it's none of my business anyway. I just used it as an example of what a minority can do.

[Buffalobiian]

The 12 Knights of Round. We didn't get a good look at them, but they all seem to be really young, like Suzaku age. I suppose you'll recruit aces when they're young and all, but first impression made it look more like a noble youth club. Especially the blonde who was talking about charging into the Ambassador's territory. They really do seem like soldiers rather than commanders. The Chinese Federation guy's been getting quite some screen time, but no mecha action yet. I want to see what he can do. Also noticed the power/territory divisions here are much the same as they were in Gundam00.

side note: I like dropping by those blogs every now and then. Good episode summaries, but I mainly like their screen caps. Of course, reading them before or after you've watched the sub is a different matter.

edit: not important, but Suzaku entered into the 12 Knights of Round? Does that mean he kicked one of them out, they had 11 before, or it's 13 Knights now?

[Ryllharu]

Well, altered or not, it's not like CG will stop. I'll go with that. Back on topic, I don't see why Suzaku would have to give Kallen's name out anyway. He wanted her to change her mind, not capture her. He probably wouldn't have much to gain from giving out her name anyway. Not too many pilots get to see that red Frame and live. Seeing her back at school would be a plus though. I actually enjoyed watching her two different personalities, and just how she copes with it.
He wanted to persuade her to come back to the Britannian colony and leave the BKs...before Euphie was shot by Zero. That changed everything for Suzaku. He was always a bit of a hypocrite, preaching peace while attempting to be a Kira Yamato. Destroying Knightmares while letting the pilots eject. That stopped after Euhpie died. He started slashing through cockpits, shooting through too. Anyone in his way died. Kallen only didn't die because Zero showed up to taunt him into a trap, and later because he had captured Lelouch.

I love how much he's betrayed Euphie.

I just can't see how our "new" Suzaku wouldn't report her this time around.

[DDBen]

I love how much he's betrayed Euphie.

I just can't see how our "new" Suzaku wouldn't report her this time around.

Because at that point his bloodlust had cleared. He was able to catch Zero because Kallen walked away and let him and by catching zero he had avenged Euphie in his mind.

Also the fate the Emperor gave to zero of taking away his mother, sister and well being zero was a much more satisfying revenge then killing Lelouche could ever be for him. He was also granted the title of one of the strongest Knights in the Empire as a result.

So seriously what more could he gain by turning in Kallen? I would think he believed that her walking away from Zero like that ment she had accepted his side or atleast broken Zero's control over her as he probably assumed Zero used his Geass to make her do bad things.

[David75]

I suggested a while ago that everything we see may be a lie, just because the Emperor has such a great power that he can totally rewrite someone. And we don't know wether he can use it only once or not. We do not know anything we can be sure of to date.
Except maybe the Geass in itself.

[RyougaZell]

I agree with Ryl... Suzaku currently completely despises the BK because Zero/Lelouch killed Euphemia, so it would be unlikely he witheld information on Kallen. Lelouch's info was not leaked because of order of the Emperor himself, but what use would he have of Kallen?

Also... Suzaku despises the geass... because of what Lelouch did yo Euphie... kinda ironic that the emperor bitch slapped him showing two geass.

On the side of the leaked episodes...
I do not think they will change it. But yeah... it was a grave incident, since a staff of sunrise itself leaked the episodes.Rumor says he leaked the complete episode, but the other 3 parts (the one leaked is part 4) were stopped in time.
The most pissed off are the sponsors it seems.

[ShinobiNeko]

here is the truth about the leaked ending of upcomming episode

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-04-16/unaired-code-geass-episode-ending-leaked-by-accident

alot of it was made up stuff on the 4ch site.. it was actual human error when testing out something on website

[Kraco]

Bandai Channel (the network service responsible for posting the entire program onto the Internet) was testing a system that prevents unauthorized video posts when it accidentally uploaded the episode's ending onto the Internet early.

http://forums.gotwoot.net/gallery/files/9/7/6/2/treeofirony.jpg

[animus]

That kinda just sounds like a quick-fix cover up to be honest.

[RyougaZell]

Indeed it sounded like that.

But as I once worked on System Testing I can understand and believe it to be a test error...

At least the rumors of the episode not airing will die down. I downloaded the 'spoiler' but will not see it. There is no point now.

[Ryllharu]

Because at that point his bloodlust had cleared. He was able to catch Zero because Kallen walked away and let him and by catching zero he had avenged Euphie in his mind.

Also the fate the Emperor gave to zero of taking away his mother, sister and well being zero was a much more satisfying revenge then killing Lelouche could ever be for him. He was also granted the title of one of the strongest Knights in the Empire as a result.

So seriously what more could he gain by turning in Kallen? I would think he believed that her walking away from Zero like that ment she had accepted his side or atleast broken Zero's control over her as he probably assumed Zero used his Geass to make her do bad things.
You've got it backward. Kallen ran off because Suzaku caught Lelouch. Suzaku was sitting on top of a prone Lelouch with a gun pointed at Kallen. Kallen didn't walk away...she ran off. Just like Lelouch said in the second episode. Kallen knew she would not be able to defeat Suzaku. He's an excellent soldier, and Kallen is only capable of being his equal when she's in a Knightmare.

There was no "satisfying" Suzaku either. Just like Lelouch made similar decisions with incredible coldness, Suzaku merely traded Lelouch for power. He has looked and acted pretty much the same since Euphie died and he confirmed that Zero was Lelouch. I suspect that Suzaku will not feel satisfied until he achieves Euphie's goals. Of course the means by which he achieves those will counter everything she wanted. That is why I say how wonderful it is that Suzaku has betrayed her vision, and continues to betray her. What happened to Lelouch was simply what happened. Suzaku clearly didn't care. All he wanted in that moment was a position of power. He should have heard an earful about what happened to Nunnally, and still have had some concern for her. Nunnally is an innocent, even in Suzaku's eyes. It was simply a matter of him no longer caring.

As for what he could have gained? Security. One less member of the opposition. Especially one as talented as Kallen is in a Knightmare. If anything, he had more important things to do (like keeping Lelouch in custody). Kallen wasn't a threat at that point.

[DDBen]

I just rewatched the clip of and Ryllharu we completely disagree on what happen.

Note I'm watching the Eclipse sub.

Kallen initially freezes up when she finds out who Zero is and that allows Lelouche and Suzaku to shoot at each other where Suzaku wins. At that point she calls out for Zero and Suzaku counters he isn't Zero its Lelouche the man who used her and asks if she really wants to protect that type of man.

At that point she runs off because she's confused it has nothing to do with being afraid she can't beat Suzaku because he's a better fighter its because at that time she was afraid and confused and it was Suzaku who convinced her to run off because he felt she was just being used.

note 2:42-3:09

Why would he say the man who USED the Japanese and you if his intentions were blind bloodlust against the Black Knights? Why would he tell her to abandon him with a gun pointed in her direction but never so much as looking back at her?

Plus the fact he didn't kill Lelouche on the spot says a lot. He still wasn't willing to kill his Best friend with his own hands. Instead he turned him in and asked someone else to do it for him. All of this tells me Suzaku isn't really the coldhearted asshole you guys want him to be.

[Kraco]

Ho... I wouldn't necessarily think so. After Euphie was killed he became very, very enraged. I would have expected him at that point to kill Lelouch should he get a chance. However, he didn't but coldly and tactically turned him in. I think that shows more coldheartedness than killing Lelouch on the spot to avenge his lost love. It means he was willing to forget Euphie was murdered in order to advance on his own career. Now, that was of course the better choice for him, but it certainly doesn't make him a warmer person.

And just for the record let's not forget it was war back then, and not a time of peace. And it's a different world anyway than ours so killing someone for revenge probably would have meant nothing under those circumstances.

[shinta|hikari]

Suzaku didn't forget about Euphie. He simply used Lelouch as a bargaining tool to get what he wants - changing the system from within. This was also Euphie's goal, and I think part of the reason he is so power hungry is his desire to fulfill this common goal, rather than a simple thirst for power. However, like Ryll said, Suzaku's methods have become akin to those of Lelouch, the very means that he used to despise. Euphie's death served the same purpose to Suzaku as the death of Marianne and Nunally's injuries did to Lelouch, which is to instill an almost blind determination to achieve their goal (which is not simply vengeance, but also changing the world as they see fit).

@Ddben - I do agree with you that Kallen didn't run because of a logical understanding that she is no match for Suzaku in combat, but rather her confusion and belief that Lelouch fooled them all along. BUT, not killing Lelouch is definitely not a sign of being a good person. Not killing him on the spot and handing him over to the emperor (not anyone else due to his desire to gain power) is not being cold hearted? What if Lelouch was tortured? Publicly humiliated then executed? Such scenarios are hardly unlikely with how Britannians view the world, especially if the decision lies with the man who imposes such a view in the first place, the emperor himself (ie Suzaku's own execution, so any excuse that stems from him not knowing any better will not work).

It definitely wasn't blind bloodlust on Suzaku's part though. If you recall the dialogue between Suzaku and Lelouch in the last part of ep 25 in season 1, Suzaku tries to rationalize stopping Lelouch and his plans because "Lelouch has become twisted", and he needs to right that wrong. Rationalizing one's actions is definitely not a sign of pure blood thirst.

Despite his change in terms of the methods he uses, it seems that Suzaku still believes that changing the system from within is better than doing it through rebellion, even if the actions required to do so are the same or even morally worse. This part of his hypocrisy still has not changed, which is why my hatred will not dissipate, at least for now.

EDIT: about Suzaku turning in Kallen... I think he has not done so yet, but there is no guarantee that he will not inform the empire if they encounter each other again. Right now, I think he simply regards Kallen as more of a victim of Lelouch's deception rather than a willing rebel, and I think he still wants her to simply stay out of the way.

[animus]

Removing Lelouch's memories of Nunnally and his mother could probably be the worst torture he could ever receive.

[Yukimura]

I wouldn't really think of it as torture if he had never gotten his memories back. He certainly didn't seem that tortured running around school with Rollo.

Speaking of running, I really hope Lelouch will do some cardio this season. He's never going to match god of battle Suzaku but he should at least be able to run for 10 minutes without nearly passing out.

[Kraco]

Speaking of running, I really hope Lelouch will do some cardio this season. He's never going to match god of battle Suzaku but he should at least be able to run for 10 minutes without nearly passing out.

And C.C. looks like she could be a hard to please woman, so Lelouch better get some stamina for the all-night sessions with her.

[David75]

this memory rewrite Geass is very interresting because potentially only the Emperor knows who killed Lelouch's mother.
So lelouch's stunts to get close to his relatives and command them to tell him who did it and how it happened was a wrong move from the start

[animus]

The only person he used his Geass to ask of his mother's death that's still alive, is Cornelia. And god knows where she's at. I don't think Geass'd people remember what they're doing under the effects of it.

[David75]

The only person he used his Geass to ask of his mother's death that's still alive, is Cornelia. And god knows where she's at. I don't think Geass'd people remember what they're doing under the effects of it.

Well he had to take risks for the "brother" he killed and for Cornelia, and all for naught. It just isn't the right method now that he knows about the memory rewrite thing.

Oh, and why does he know about it only now? what is the reason he gets his memory back?

[Ryllharu]

Pertaining to the issue of Lelouch losing his memories of Marianne and Nunnally:

How exactly is this torture in any way? He doesn't remember them. There's nothing to be sad about since the mindraped Lelouch doesn't even know they exist. Sure, it really pissed him off after he got the memories back, but the only thing it accomplishes is removing Lelouch's motivation for revenge. It's like taking his chess piece out of the game completely. No King piece to lead the others, no reason to fight. A masterful defensive move by the Emperor.

Now, if he had done something like what happens at the beginning of Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles to Sakura (i.e. Losing specific memories of people, particularly the ones most important to you, but still remembering all the situations they would have appeared in), that would be "torture" to Lelouch. He'd know exactly why all these people are so important to him, but have no idea who they were.

That's why it was such a tragedy in that series. Here. he's only angry because the Emperor made him forget and he found out about it. For all the other Lelouch knew, everything was peachy.


As for why he got him memory back, he touched C.C. That's all it takes. Just remember all the damage she did to Suzaku the first time she merely touched the Lancelot.

[DDBen]

@Ddben - I do agree with you that Kallen didn't run because of a logical understanding that she is no match for Suzaku in combat, but rather her confusion and belief that Lelouch fooled them all along. BUT, not killing Lelouch is definitely not a sign of being a good person. Not killing him on the spot and handing him over to the emperor (not anyone else due to his desire to gain power) is not being cold hearted? What if Lelouch was tortured? Publicly humiliated then executed? Such scenarios are hardly unlikely with how Britannians view the world, especially if the decision lies with the man who imposes such a view in the first place, the emperor himself (ie Suzaku's own execution, so any excuse that stems from him not knowing any better will not work).


We largely agree here but I suspect that Suzaku did what V.V. told him to do with Lelouch and thats why he brought him to the Emperor. I doubt he know what would be done with him after he did so but I can't see many ways that a 11 even with his records would get a private meeting with the Emperor like that even with Zero in hand. I still don't think Suzaku would have been able to flat out kill him though after knowing who he was because he still holds a attachment to his friend.



EDIT: about Suzaku turning in Kallen... I think he has not done so yet, but there is no guarantee that he will not inform the empire if they encounter each other again. Right now, I think he simply regards Kallen as more of a victim of Lelouch's deception rather than a willing rebel, and I think he still wants her to simply stay out of the way.

We agree here. If Suzaku meets Kallen on the battlefield in the future he will certainly try his best to kill/defeat her. I was only saying there is no reason to believe he went out of his way to give out information to get her caught during this break in the fighting because he actively encouraged her to run away and he wanted her as a friend to be able to live a normal life rather then him blindly wanting her hunted down and killed or captured as a past member of the Black Knights like some were claiming.

[Ryllharu]

We largely agree here but I suspect that Suzaku did what V.V. told him to do with Lelouch and thats why he brought him to the Emperor. I doubt he know what would be done with him after he did so but I can't see many ways that a 11 even with his records would get a private meeting with the Emperor like that even with Zero in hand. I still don't think Suzaku would have been able to flat out kill him though after knowing who he was because he still holds a attachment to his friend.The only thing V.V. told Suzaku was that Zero had a power called the Geass [Episode 24-25 starting at 14:22]. Not who Zero was, and gave him no instructions. Just like C.C. doesn't tell Lelouch what to do, though we really have no idea what she wants in exchange yet or when she will demand payment. But V.V. doesn't have a deal with Suzaku as Lelouch does with C.C. There is no obligation between them. He can't give Suzaku any orders. V.V. can manipulate him, and he surely did that. In no way, shape, or form did V.V. tell Suzaku to do anything. Suzaku went to take revenge for Euphie. No one else.


We agree here. If Suzaku meets Kallen on the battlefield in the future he will certainly try his best to kill/defeat her. I was only saying there is no reason to believe he went out of his way to give out information to get her caught during this break in the fighting because he actively encouraged her to run away and he wanted her as a friend to be able to live a normal life rather then him blindly wanting her hunted down and killed or captured as a past member of the Black Knights like some were claiming.
There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't now that he takes orders only from the royalty, maybe only the Emperor himself. The Emperor showed clear motive for wiping out the entirety of the Black Knights, and clearly wanted C.C. dead. Why give her any additional aid allowed to operate freely? As half-Britannian, particularly higher society, Kallen would still have free access if she wasn't outed as a member of the Black Knights.

After who she still stubbornly supports (Suzaku expressing that sentiment exactly in the flashback to the island) why would he give her any quarter after all the aid she has provided Zero and the role she might have played in Euphie's death. Sure, he let her escape the island, but with all the other members of the Black Knights in exile, in prison, or dead, why would he even bother sparing Kallen now?

[DDBen]

The only thing V.V. told Suzaku was that Zero had a power called the Geass [Episode 24-25 starting at 14:22]. Not who Zero was, and gave him no instructions. Just like C.C. doesn't tell Lelouch what to do, though we really have no idea what she wants in exchange yet or when she will demand payment. But V.V. doesn't have a deal with Suzaku as Lelouch does with C.C. There is no obligation between them. He can't give Suzaku any orders. V.V. can manipulate him, and he surely did that. In no way, shape, or form did V.V. tell Suzaku to do anything. Suzaku went to take revenge for Euphie. No one else.

There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't now that he takes orders only from the royalty, maybe only the Emperor himself. The Emperor showed clear motive for wiping out the entirety of the Black Knights, and clearly wanted C.C. dead. Why give her any additional aid allowed to operate freely? As half-Britannian, particularly higher society, Kallen would still have free access if she wasn't outed as a member of the Black Knights.



Yes his reason for giving his all to stop Zero was absolutely to avenge Euphie but at that time he was still lying to himself about who Zero was. After finding out that it was 100% Lelouch though his goal changed again. If he had truely only wanted to avenge Euphie at that moment he would have killed Zero and thats it problem solved. Instead he proved to himself who Zero was and then resumed his original goal forsaking his revenge in order to prove his friend wrong and change things from the inside once again. That was something he wanted to prove to Lelouch he could do in order to prove his way was right this isn't cold hearted its simply him sticking to his guns.

As for what V.V. told him we know he told him about the existence of Geass we don't know what else he told him or if he told him something else for certain. That scene only shows the beginning of a conversation. Note its also possible Suzaku simply brought Lelouch before the Emperor because he knew specifically of his heritage. Anything I stated about V.V. telling Suzaku specific things aside from about what a geass is was purely speculation.




After who she still stubbornly supports (Suzaku expressing that sentiment exactly in the flashback to the island) why would he give her any quarter after all the aid she has provided Zero and the role she might have played in Euphie's death. Sure, he let her escape the island, but with all the other members of the Black Knights in exile, in prison, or dead, why would he even bother sparing Kallen now?

Suzaku believes Zero was executed because he watched the Emperor kill Zero right in front of him. Note not kill Lelouch but simply the personality and the rational behind Zero. Kallen at that point had no zero to follow and no reason for him to believe her a threat and he did consider her a friend he was able to "save". He knew she was in the Black Knights well before the showdown in 25 and never turned her in because he felt he could save her so after doing so why on earth would he randomly point and say get her? Once again with the return of Zero this changes and he has every reason to hunt her down because now she joined Zero again despite knowing the truth.

[Ryllharu]

Are you going to just continue with baseless conjecture, or actually provide some evidence to back up these claims? I have done that more than enough times, several occasions listing episode and a timestamp. I suppose your argument is, "They didn't say that it did NOT occur, therefore it must be true," rather than use any evidence to back any of these wild guesses up?

This paragraph:

Suzaku believes Zero was executed because he watched the Emperor kill Zero right in front of him. Note not kill Lelouch but simply the personality and the rational behind Zero. Kallen at that point had no zero to follow and no reason for him to believe her a threat and he did consider her a friend he was able to "save". He knew she was in the Black Knights well before the showdown in 25 and never turned her in because he felt he could save her so after doing so why on earth would he randomly point and say get her? Once again with the return of Zero this changes and he has every reason to hunt her down because now she joined Zero again despite knowing the truth.
Total Bullshit. Suzaku knew damn well exactly what the Emperor was doing, but not what he intended to do with him, which was to specifically lead the Black Knights and C.C. out into the open to finish them all off. Then Suzaku goes off to fight with the rest of the Knights of the Round against the European Union, as alluded to by the blond member of the Knights of the Round as seen in the OP.

Ever heard of debriefing? If Suzaku was just folded into one of the highest ranking orders of Knights, and the Emperor was keen on finishing off the rebellion his wayward son started, you honestly don't believe that someone would get all the information out of Suzaku? He would give it too. He just proved his loyalty, and there's no reason he'd betray that as soon as he got the position.

For the...I don't even know anymore number of times, Suzaku was happy to let her "change her ways" before Zero shot Euphie in the chest right in front of him. He gave her only two more chances. One was fighting her on the side of the building before Lelouch lured him to the Academy. At that point, he swore that he would kill her if she stood in the way of getting Zero. Then one final time at Kamejima. There, he only asked her why she would follow someone who would use her like that.

She ran off after he pointed a gun at her.

There. I did your damn job for you. That italicized sentence is the only evidence you have to support your argument. You've never used it once. I've used it, over and over as a lead in. Like I will right now. That is the only supporting evidence that he, "let her get away." But he had Lelouch to worry about. Why bother. He's still disgusted at her support of him. If anything, Suzaku may have hoped this finally changed her ways. But I doubt it. Suzaku wasn't the same after Zero threatened the school. That was just one more thing that pissed him off and pushed him towards the edge. Finally confirming it was Lelouch was the the final straw. That is what broke Suzaku. He knew who Lelouch really was. He realized that Lelouch could shoot his own sister, and worse, make her do those horrible things for his own ends. One wonders if that is why Suzaku wouldn't listen to him. If Lelouch could shoot Euphie, whom he was fond of, would he really care about Nunnally? etc.

There was no reason after she ran to still try and "save" her. He would report her involvement just like the rest of the Black Knights who are currently in prison.

Suzaku doesn't care anymore. He'd tell everyone about it. He's only concerned about killing Lelouch (end of episode 1). If they didn't know before the first episode this season that Kallen was in the Black Knights, they sure do now.



Returning to the foundation of our ongoing argument (In case you forgot, and I know you did):

I sincerely doubt Kallen will every be returning to the Academy.

[Shinji Ikari]

I'm just rewatching the first series and I'm finding myself skipping every part where Euphie appear. God I hate her whining and idealistic bullshit, and I say hallelujah to the fact that she died horribly. Amen.

And thank god Suzaku has refrained from trying to excuse and justify his actions of evil, finally he is stepping up to be the biatch he really is with no cute stuff going on, god I hate that. Just hope he continues like that, showing his true self where he is just like Lelouch, the end justifies the means, only worse since he is a hypocrite.

[KrayZ33]

I'm just rewatching the first series and I'm finding myself skipping every part where Euphie appear. God I hate her whining and idealistic bullshit, and I say hallelujah to the fact that she died horribly. Amen.

And thank god Suzaku has refrained from trying to excuse and justify his actions of evil, finally he is stepping up to be the biatch he really is with no cute stuff going on, god I hate that. Just hope he continues like that, showing his true self where he is just like Lelouch, the end justifies the means, only worse since he is a hypocrite.

! (really thats all i have to say, its so true)

[Ryllharu]

I'm just rewatching the first series and I'm finding myself skipping every part where Euphie appear. God I hate her whining and idealistic bullshit, and I say hallelujah to the fact that she died horribly. Amen.

And thank god Suzaku has refrained from trying to excuse and justify his actions of evil, finally he is stepping up to be the biatch he really is with no cute stuff going on, god I hate that. Just hope he continues like that, showing his true self where he is just like Lelouch, the end justifies the means, only worse since he is a hypocrite.
Really good post on the second paragraph.

But...I have to disagree with the Euphie parts. I'll admit I enjoyed her most of the time, except when she saved Nina during the hotel jacking, and when she saved her from being beaten into the ground by the MPs when Nina tried to stalk her at the museum. (But that's a problem with table-raping Nina, not Euphie.)

Euphie was as Kallen called her, a doll-princess. If she had any failing, it was her naiveté. She was coddled by her half-brothers (Lelouch and Schnizel) and especially by her sister. Euphie was never really exposed to the harsh reality of the world. Cornelia kept her safe up until the events of the series, and tried to keep her out of the loop then, but failed due to her absence or Euphie finally growing some confidence.

What I liked about that was Euphie truly believed in all the idealistic bullshit she kept spouting. She honestly believed in the best of people, and that everyone would be able to eventually get along. But as Lelouch said when she announced her idea for a Japanese zone during the school festival, the world just doesn't work that way.

Lelouch, Nunnally, Suzaku, Cornelia, Schnizel, and maybe even Clovis all knew how harsh the real world could be. Though perhaps Nunnally had forgotten. That's why Cornelia and Suzaku liked her so much. Even Lelouch, until her ideas clashed with him. Still, Lelouch knew that in one move, Euphie defeated everything about his movement. "Zero" would look like an asshole either way. He would have to surrender. Of course, Lelouch said exactly as much to her face right before he accidentally Geassed her.

She was that little shiny spot you really didn't want to believe existed in this kind of series. And as it turned out, in the world they all live in, that light couldn't survive on it's own. Karma came to snuff it out.

[KrayZ33]

wow, you just reminded me of that lesbian girl ... she showed up in the second episode too and i instantly felt hatred when i saw her STUPID FACE... kill that maniac-girl alrdy, this girl is by FAR the most annoying anime character in my anime-history.

GOD it makes me angry just thinking about it, really... why did you do that? now i won't be able to sleep :(

[DDBen]

@Ryllharu

I don't have a clue what your talking about in this thread I clearly timestamped the scene in R2 of Suzaku letting Kallen go. He talks her INTO leaving after pointing his gun at her he never even looks her way if she shot at that point she could have killed him with no danger to Zero. Even Suzaku can't dodge bullets fired at the back of his head.

On top of that when showed wanted posters for the Black Knights Kallen DOES NOT have one and being the ace of there Knightmare pilots she would certainly have one if Suzaku reported her. Those posters were still up no matter if the person was dead, caught or wanted so there is ZERO reason she wouldn't have one IF she was wanted thats more then enough proof Suzaku didn't go back and turn her in to be hunted later.

as for time stamps 6:04-6:14 in R1 Ep 2 is when they go over the posters anyone of Kallens rank in the Black Knights that was being hunted would be in that lineup.

[Ryllharu]

That's a good enough reason as any. You may as well have convinced me that Suzaku didn't give her up. I'm sticking with that he would have if not for heading to the Emperor immediately with Lelouch in tow.

But someone else very well could have. At the very least as her being a half-Japanese rather than Britannian (obvious in the real world, not so much in anime).

We still have to wonder though, about her presence in the Tower. She should have been recognized. The only slave laborers were Japanese. Kallen was being abused just the same as all the others. The only question was how long was she there. She could have been there for only a few days in preparation for the retrieval of Lelouch, or she could have been there for most of last year.

She had support certainly, but either way she was being considered a slave. That only gives me the impression that someone outed her, only maybe not as Zero's Personal Guard.

[DDBen]

My impression of why Kallen was working as a bunny girl was she applied for it because they knew Lelouch on that day would come to play chess. She had her Knightmare key in her cleavage and drops a transmitter at the feet of Lelouch as soon as she she's him its known as going undercover and had nothing to do with them knowing who she was or else she wouldn't have been able to have EITHER of those electronics on hand.

[Ryllharu]

I wasn't under the impression one "applied" to work on the construction of nor within the Tower of Babylon. All of it was forced labor.

The Japanese were punished for their rebellion, whether they participated or not. Kallen was hiding the Gurren's key as a lighter. Maybe she went in with all this knowing it was part of a plan, but she was treated anything but kindly by the patrons and owners there. They knew she was Japanese, and they may have known who she was, just not how important.

[DDBen]

They couldn't have known she was in the Black Knights or she would have been arrested regardless of who she was in the Black Knights they were not just after the higher ups. They clearly could tell she was at least part Japanese and thats why she was badly treated. I mean if they knew who she really was they would know she was a member of a prestigious family as well and then assuming her father hasn't gone belly up one would imagine she wouldn't be in that position in the first place.

I am under the impression though the Japanese are simply using that for a job and they have always been treated like crap outside the ghetto. Remember the guy with the Hotdog cart in season one who let them beat the crap out of him and still groveled to even random students to try and sell them a "California dog" was it? Thats just the norm of how elevens are treated inside the city and I am of the impression that the people working in the tower are doing so willingly being its the only way for them to survive. The job options likely got even worse at this point for elevens so they have no right to complain even if they may seem like slaves to us.

[shinta|hikari]

Even if it was forced labor, it doesn't necessarily mean that Kallen herself did not create the conditions for her to be selected as one. It should not be too hard, since she is a hot babe and an 11(even if only half) at the same time.

I really doubt a black knight member would simply be put to work after being outed, especially if she was still in possession of a knightmare key. Terrorists are extremely dangerous, especially in CG, and are treated with the utmost caution by the Britannians. I doubt they would put one in service of VIPs without even making sure she was unarmed (a km key is considered a weapon I think).

[Kraco]

I think it's pretty obvious she went there just for the operation. Seeing how they treated the bunny girls, they probably needed to get new ones all the time, so getting a job there on a short notice was likely no problem for someone as hot as Kallen. I seriously doubt she had been working there for long, as it seems anyone working there for long sooner or later would have needed to grant the patrons some sexual favours, and I certainly don't see Kallen willingly suffer anything like that.

[Ryllharu]

... I certainly don't see Kallen willingly suffer anything like that.
She went to school often enough, didn't she?

[Kraco]

Umm... I said working there in the tower would likely mean getting molested or even raped by some rougher customers (as we saw), which is why I doubt she had been there for long, and only went there for this particular operation. I don't believe going to school posed such dangers.

[Ryllharu]

It was a joke...come on.

My arguments have apparently gotten a little stale. Let's try for one more topic change before the next episode airs. Three more questions come out of this episode:

- Will we be seeing a love triangle...er hexagon this season? There's already C.C., but can we toss in Kallen for sure this season? When he put his jacket over her, Kallen gave Lelouch a rather strange look. Will her idolization of Zero shift fully onto Lelouch as she realizes that he never was Zero, he was always Lelouch, just as he told Euphie on Kamejima? Then we can also toss in Kaguya's proposals from last season.

But could we also include Shirley? She's in the preview, and if she was brainwashed to accept Rollo's existence instead of Nunnally's she may have forgotten all about what happened before with Lelouch. She'll very likely fall in love with him again.

- I mentioned this before, but didn't realize before that "Britannia" doesn't include the UK at all. It's pretty much just North and South America. The map never really showed any of Europe in season 1, so with the name we all just assumed they had taken the two Americas and moved westward.

- Lastly, all the new Britannian Knightmares for the Knights of the Round and Rollo (whether he is one or not) are based off the Lancelot. Before, only the Gawain, Gurren and Todou's Burai Kai (or was that the one before Raksharta hooked him up?) could hope to compete with the Lancelot, largely due to the superiority of the Gawain, or the excellent piloting skills of Kallen or Todou. Now that there are essential 12 or 13 Lancelot models, are we going to see the Black Knights severely under-arsenaled? That year off took a huge toll on their combat abilities simply in terms of pilots alone, and now we have a severe gap in technology as well.

Yes, Raksharta was free to do as she pleased in the Chinese Federation, but she certainly lacked the resources that she once had under the full strength Black Knights. We've seen the Gurren get a float module in the OP, but one has to wonder how they will compete with the pink-haired Loli of the Round's Virtue...err Mordred (according the the site) and other Lancelot/Gawain based models.

[Kraco]

Though it might be a boring point to make, but if this season invests in fights as much as the first one, I doubt we have seen all Rakshata can pull out of her pockets. If, however, this season will present the situation in a light where the BK can only rely all the more heavily on underhanded guerrilla tactics, then I suppose it will be far more indirect what comes to battles because, like you said, the BK is underpowered. Still, we have already seen Rakshata so it would make little sense if she has no role to play. I hope we will see something totally unexpected like we did in the first season. Copies of the enemy tech are boring.

[Shinji Ikari]

But then we do have another interesting question bubbling up into the situation. If Rakshata does indeed pull a few rabbits out of her hat, who will pilot the new ones? Because if you view it from this point, Karen will either get a new unit if they get even better units (since guren is the best so far) or there will come several units that are just below the guren, and right now the ones who are piloting the ones below are Toudou and his original people and then their units would be given to the weaker knights.

Since I believe something better will come, seeing as how Rakshata just loves to play with new toys and seeing as the enemy units are way better than the things they have... I would like to think that a few new people will drop in to pilot these new units.

[Buffalobiian]

Well, if the Chinese are allies with BK, then the Chinese swordsman will get one I think, either immediately, or when his original one gets destroyed. Maybe Rollo too, if he joins their ranks and wrecks his prototype. (prototype mass production model based off the Lancelot means that it's NOT currently in mass production, doesn't it?)

[Kraco]

That's a valid question I've been wondering as well. Especially if Suzaku isn't anymore the only ace the Empire has (well, Cornelia was another, for sure) but the whole order of the round table will strike against the BK. The BK will need some high profile pilots if battles play a significant role.

[Ryllharu]

There were a couple of new faces in the "plug suits" like Kallen's in the OP on the BK's side.

We still have to remember that despite their highest profile and best pilots (the former Japanese Liberation Front aces) in prison, the BK's are severely depleted. Nearly everyone has been executed. They will be recruiting heavily from Japan, and probably from a few places opposed to Britannia, like the European Union perhaps and at least a few from the Chinese.

I think we'll be getting a few fresh aces to compete.
(Though "fresh" and "ace" are antonyms in this context)

[ian_sanzo]

I heard from a friend that code geass r2 just got licensed. Is this really true?

[Ryllharu]

Yeah, I think Bandai snapped it up before or immediately after episode 1 aired, but that really doesn't change anything.

[RyougaZell]

Out by GG

http://saki.imouto.org:6969/torrents/725c7f34742d78b3a479d316560ff676cabacd48.torrent

[Shinji Ikari]

Thank you!!!! :D I know it will make my day.

All I've got to say about this ep is.... WTF!?!

[animus]

OH SHI-

is about all I have to say for the last part of the episode.

[Yukimura]

I now have a love/hate relationship with Code Geass, I love the show but hate the cliffhangers. You can't just end an episode like that, it's emotional abuse!

Important points:
Kallen still has her school uniform.

Rollo is a poster child for emotional instability and abandonment issues.

Rollo's geass is hax.

Perma-Geass is apparently here to stay.

And I must echo Shinji's WTF at the random ending.

[Ryllharu]

Kallen still has Lelouch's school jacket. Unless I missed her yellow jacket and black skirt somewhere.

I loved the increased Kallen/C.C. banter. If this is a new trend of R2, it may be the best one!

Rollo's Geass interestingly enough has a range. It shoots out in a sphere centered around him, maybe 150 feet tops. Only the audience knows it for now, I wonder if/when Lelouch will.

Viletta amazingly did not receive a brain melt. In fact, she got a promotion, just like she always wanted. But we also all caught the glance she gave Ougi. Maybe her amnesiac state's memories are coming back bit by bit? Or did she always have them and only know softening to Ougi, since he was only kind to her as "Chigusa"?

I'm not liking the new trend of severe cliffhangers at the end of each episode.


Very nice call on the contact lens idea from the eps 2 thread that I agreed with, supported, and elaborated on, whoever that was.

[NeoCybercoin]

Code Geass Ep 3 H264 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2003%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b43D4E851%5d.mkv.tor rent) Eclipse

Code Geass Ep 3 Xvid (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2003%20(XviD)%20%5b833205EB%5d.avi.torrent) Eclipse

Yep Eclipse is out =3

[Yukimura]

Lol, good observation Ryl, I completely forgot he gave it to her. I guess I just didn't want to remember her not in all her bunny suited glory.

Anyway, after watch #2 I noticed something else about Rollo's geass. The bubble one in this ep didn't seem big enough for him to have enveloped Urabe and Kallen, as well as Lelouch in one of the same size when they were all in Knightmares. That may not have been his maximum range we saw, though it could just be a visual anomaly.

Also, he seems to have gotten Lelouch with it in ep2 yet it worked on him again in this ep, implying he gets multiplue uses too. Why is it that only Lelouch seems to have limitations on his Geass's effectiveness? Might it have something to do with what C.C. said about his Geass having the potential to get stronger?

[Ryllharu]

As we saw with Euphie especially, and with the girl carving into the wall for at least a year, Lelouch's Geass is really powerful, and from what C.C. was implying in this episode with the contact, he may not even be at the strongest. Perhaps it might get to a point where it doesn't have to be direct eyesight, and goes through several material.

Lelouch's Geass only works once because it apparently damages portions of the brain that allow it to operate.

There's no resisting an order once he gives it. Though the Emperor may be able to use his more than once, he seems to have had it for a long time. He might possibly manipulate others with false memories, but it's not a guarantee like Lelouch's is.

Then we have all the others. Mao's was only useful against a person like Lelouch, who wins by thinking. Perhaps a barbarian of an enemy, or one who thought in multiple directions very quickly could defeat him easily. His other weakness was simply being overwhelmed by thoughts.

And Rollo's does appear to have a range, though we don't yet know of it's full effective time limit. Not that the Black Knights have a sniper, but it remains a possibility.

[RyougaZell]

So Rollo can use his geass as many times as he wants with the subjects?
And I think his Knightmare amplifies his range.

I LOLed at the contact lense because it was predicted here on gotwoot.

I am wondering if Rollo used this geass to take Lelouch away from Kallen on ep1?

Great interaction between CC and Kallen.

WTF is the Chinese guy doing? Is he on the Britannian's side? He did not say anything about Rollo's geass either. Or did he even notice the weird eye?

I still think Rollo will turn out to be Nunnally...

[vejita613]

I think the situation at the end is just a charade to fool the Britainian army somehow. I dont see chinese heero yuy fighting against them all of a sudden after saying that he finds them "interesting".

[Darknodin]

"What! Zero is a woman!"
"Exactly!"

the cliffhanger is kind of annoying i agree. its like last week's, which became completely unimportant 3 seconds into this ep.

[Inazuma]

We could lose ourselves in conjectures, but as of now, I'll only say that this ep is true to the series.

Bravo.

[Kraco]

One thing I'll say: Rollo's life will be ruined once his geass becomes constantly active. He won't be able to interact with people other than by communicators... And seeing how he relies on his geass even against some random grunt, it should be only a matter of time.

An excellent episode. I wonder how long we need to wait until Lelouch can play some games with his own rules. So far he has been mostly forced to use his wits to get out of trouble, not advance his greater plans.

[DeathscytheVII]

One question is, whether Rollo's geass is a hypnotic one working on people only, or if it actually stops time itself. I'm probably leaning towards the latter, unless they reveal his Vincent Knightmare has some teleportation device, that would explain how he got out of the explosion.

Perhaps there is another step after the geass grows more powerful. Maybe if the user manages to control it better, it will go back to being something the user can turn on and off as opposed to constantly being released. The emperor, I'm assuming, has had his geass way before Lelouch, so he must have either found a way or has already reached another plane of power with his geass.

Great episode, Lelouch really surprised me with his move to go back to school right in the middle of the incident, he really thinks ahead. The C.C and Kallen interaction is awesome too :D Nice to see Schneizel again, awesome character.

I also wonder if Cornelia is still alive? We're seeing her knights still in Japan, but not her. It would be interesting to see her again.

------------------

As for how Lelouch will get out of this one, i'm guessing the gun he threatened Rollo with wasn't loaded. Since he was going to Geass Rollo to make him his servant anyway, and Lelouch just loves to bluff!

[animus]

I think it's like a hpynotic one. When you see him use it on Viletta and the guy, they had the red outline around their eyes which happens when you're under the effect of a geass.

[High Wind]

One question is, whether Rollo's geass is a hypnotic one working on people only, or if it actually stops time itself. I'm probably leaning towards the latter, unless they reveal his Vincent Knightmare has some teleportation device, that would explain how he got out of the explosion.



I think it's like a hpynotic one. When you see him use it on Viletta and the guy, they had the red outline around their eyes which happens when you're under the effect of a geass.


I'm surprised people haven't referenced the most glaring piece of evidence that Rolo's Geass effects people and not actual time itself. You can see this in the fact that when that one guy walks in on Rolo and Viletta's conversation Rolo activates his "Time Stop" Geass. While this is happening, the water in the background is still moving while everyone is "Geass'd".

[DeathscytheVII]

I noticed the running water, but the thing that confused me was how Rollo got out of the explosion in his Knightmare. He might have hypnotized everyone (his geass does not need eye contact), but that doesn't change the fact his vincent was RIGHT NEXT to urabe when he exploded. And if he just freezes perception of time, then he won't be able to freeze the explosion.

The Hypnosis theory sounds right, with the water observation. I guess this is either a plot hole or something they'll explain with some added scenes later on, or maybe the vincent is super durable. Hehe.

[narutosharingan]

That was a fun episode. Curious to see how Lelouch gets out of that situation at the end, and did the Chinese Fed make a deal with Britannia? Cliffhangers!

[TheBladeChild]

I now have a love/hate relationship with Code Geass, I love the show but hate the cliffhangers. You can't just end an episode like that, it's emotional abuse!

Important points:
Kallen still has her school uniform.

Rollo is a poster child for emotional instability and abandonment issues.

Rollo's geass is hax.

Perma-Geass is apparently here to stay.

And I must echo Shinji's WTF at the random ending.

Important points indeed. I still dont know what to make of Rollo. He seems to care for Lelouche but at the same time willing to kill him if he were to regain his memories to once again become Zero. So does this mean that as long as he believes that Lelouche hasn't regained his memories, he would be perfectly happy with letting Lelouche live?

And yes Rollo's geass is like game shark level hax -.-

And yes the Kallen/C.C. conversation was AWESOME.

[David75]

Geasses seem to have multiple effects, powers and drawbacks.
It's like there's a border in what you can do and what power you have.
When you have a very efficient Geass, working with no direct eye contact and great range, the action seems to be short in time. On the contrary, if you have small range and direct eye contact, you can have long time effect.
Then there's the control the user has on the power. Maybe over time, by cautious use, you can extend the power and have some limitations removed. But if you use it too often, the geass gets you before you can control it.

From what we see of rollo's and the emperor, they may have attained a higher control ability than Lelouch, they can restrict the power to only what's needed for their immediate use, whereas Lelouch seems to use it without much control, leading him to problems when the Geass becomes uncontrollable.

On the other hand, it's strange CC doesn't help him control the Geass if it's possible, and "only" gives him a masking contact lens. If it's possible to get used to the geass and control its shape, power, time range, why wouldn't she help him that way?
It also seems that the Geass may affect one's reason, because just when Lelouch replied to CC he would control his geass, then it becomes uncontrollable. I have wait for more data on the use of the geass.

[kenren]

Holy...
Looks like Lelouch and the Black Knights are in a pinch. Though I didn't expect Lelouch to confront Rollo at this early stage. Still, another satisfying episode before i proceed with my college work =.=

[vejita613]

I noticed the running water, but the thing that confused me was how Rollo got out of the explosion in his Knightmare. He might have hypnotized everyone (his geass does not need eye contact), but that doesn't change the fact his vincent was RIGHT NEXT to urabe when he exploded. And if he just freezes perception of time, then he won't be able to freeze the explosion.

The Hypnosis theory sounds right, with the water observation. I guess this is either a plot hole or something they'll explain with some added scenes later on, or maybe the vincent is super durable. Hehe.
Wasnt his knightmare still damaged because of the explosion?

[Buffalobiian]

I noticed the running water, but the thing that confused me was how Rollo got out of the explosion in his Knightmare. He might have hypnotized everyone (his geass does not need eye contact), but that doesn't change the fact his vincent was RIGHT NEXT to urabe when he exploded. And if he just freezes perception of time, then he won't be able to freeze the explosion.

The Hypnosis theory sounds right, with the water observation. I guess this is either a plot hole or something they'll explain with some added scenes later on, or maybe the vincent is super durable. Hehe.

Based on the Lancelot, the Vincent probably inherited speed as one of it's traits. Furthermore, as we can see, Rollo's Geass sort of has a time lag effect on the victim. As we saw in Viletta's case, there was a time period between when he activated his geass to when the range expanded and reached the target. Then, the target experiences a slow down where they still think they're there and they're talking to them. In the case of the Urabe, if we assumed that Rollo activated his Geass as soon as he was stabbed, it gave him a good 5 seconds before the explosion. A decent pilot would with that Knightmare's performance could plausibly evade a critical hit from that. And it's not like Rollo came out slick neither. He barely made it out from the looks of things.

As for Viletta, I don't think she ever lost her memories as Chigusa, just as Lelouch doesn't lose this last year's memories if we treat him like he had amnesia. I think she still has feelings for Ougi, as the OP suggests, but right when she woke up, all she remembered was she's a noble Britannian right in the middle of a war zone, living with filthy Elevens. I think I remember her putting on a similar face when she shot him too.

This ultra-tight security surveillance at school will be an interesting challenge, now that it's Lelouch's hiding place AND prison. Also, they weren't just told to watch Lelouch. The higher ups actually know he WAS Zero.

Love triangle between C.C./Kallen/Lelouch is almost certain for me now, but maybe a little one-sided love on Kallen's side.

edit: It was Shinta who first suggested opaque contacts.

edit2: "C.C.!! Wouldn't it have been faster if you were in the bunny suit?" That pretty much answers the question of whether Kallen's job was a setup.

[KrayZ33]

One thing I'll say: Rollo's life will be ruined once his geass becomes constantly active. He won't be able to interact with people other than by communicators... And seeing how he relies on his geass even against some random grunt, it should be only a matter of time.



Well i don't understand why that should be a problem.. if there is a lense which can outmatch the geass effect, then there shouldn't be a problem.

btw Rollo's geass is weird anyways.. it has nothing to do with "eye-contact" anymore.. all he does is realese a "supernova" and everyone is under the effect of his geass.
But then again, it was the same thing with that "mind-reading" guy. It's a bit lame, isn't it? I'd prefer a geass similiar to Lelouch's, its just boring if it is an area of effect-spell. It's even more lame that Rollo can use it even though he is in a Knightmare and it seems like he can use it more than once on a person.

ITS OVERPOWERED, MAN!! well, to be excepted.. all lab-childs are overpowered ^^... damn genetic engineering. (well at least i think he is one because of his behavior, or what was this "Birthday!?!?..i see, birthdays are important, right?" about?)

btw buffalo, what about shirley? i guess she will be involved in the love story too.. and i'd choose her over Kallen, right after C.C. ^^

and i just read on wikipedia, that the european knightmare frames are called "Panzer-Hummel" *g* nice. where did they get that information from? is there a manga or something like that?

edit: oh, there are 3 manga adaptions.. nevermind

[Kraco]

Well i don't understand why that should be a problem.. if there is a lense which can outmatch the geass effect, then there shouldn't be a problem.

It's something of a problem if all the people around you seem to have frozen. Makes discussions a bit hard, not to mention other kinds of interactions.

[KrayZ33]

Ya which won't happen if he wears the lense like Lelouch does.
I know its a special one, but if Lelouch has one, there shouldn't be a problem for Britain to get one too

[David75]

Speaking of the lens, I wonder if one can immunize oneself from certain types of Geasses. It wouldn't work with a mind reading, obviously, but could work against Rollo or Lelouch's Geass, probably the Emperor's one too.

Regarding Rollo and his armor, I wonder if it's possible they created some sort of Geass amplifier in it, to extend its range.

[Kraco]

Ya which won't happen if he wears the lense like Lelouch does.

He doesn't need an eye contact so why would a lens help? It works through the armor of a Knightmere, so I don't think a piece of plastic is going to do much good.

[DDBen]

He doesn't need an eye contact so why would a lens help? It works through the armor of a Knightmere, so I don't think a piece of plastic is going to do much good.

The lens C.C. gave Lelouch isn't just a normal contact lens its a Geass inhibitor it should be able to stop Rollo's Geass from acting on its own the same way it does for Lelouch. Also one would imagine if they were able to somehow capture Rollo or another Geass user and place it over his Geass that it would prevent him from being able to use his ability on anyone and considering C.C. is immune to the Geass abilities in the first place if she was so inclined she could easily stop Rollo who doesn't seem to have any normal enhanced physical abilities like Suzaku does.

[Chiodos]

Where was it stated that Suzaku had enhanced abilites?

[DDBen]

Where was it stated that Suzaku had enhanced abilites?

He can dodge bullets he's exceptional athletic thats been a given.

[Shinji Ikari]

He can dodge bullets he's exceptional athletic thats been a given.

I think that is one of the most ridiculous things in this anime, no one except him is uber just because. It's one thing that he rocks in Lancelot, but him being like superhuman is just stupid. Take a bullet like a man!!!

[KrayZ33]

Ya when he took out that army all by himself I thought that i'm watching Gundam again.
He was strong in the first season too, but at least he wasn't thinking of himself so highly like he does now "the outcome is clear (since i m here), surrender"

Pah! just go and die..

edit: btw i just got neg-repped three times without giving a reason (most likely the same guy?).. at least write a reason why you neg-repped me, so I have a chance to correct my behavior or the post... thats just idiotic, really.

[Yukimura]

He can also run on walls, leap over 20 feet horizontally from a standing position (and still be about 5 feet up in the air meaning he could probably go further than 20 feet), destroy gun emplacements with his shins, and do whatever it was he did to stop that pendulum bomb Mao set up in season one which should not have been physically possible.

Basically Suzaku is a ninja. The Chinese guy is also likely to display ninja alilities in short order. Unfortunately for the BK's Kallen is the closest thing they have to a ninja, but she's more of an acrobat. Being capable of doing a back flip, then reversing direction on two different axes in mid air to kick someone in the face is certianly impressive, but it also seems somewhat believable, making it much less impressive than the things Suzaku and Chinese guy can do.

And his actions in Europe were just plain despicable . I mean how can you just go to someones country (seemingly unprovoked) and just demand they lay down their arms and surrender to you or else you'll kill them. I usually don't like to bring out the old "that's what Hitler did" argument but I mean, it's kind of hard not too at this point.

And of course his (Gundam) Lancelot is able to single handedly fight off a squad of grunt mobile suits without a scratch...it's not really that fun to see a beat down like that if you don't have any built up animosity towards the receiver of said beat down. What did the poor Europeans do other than insult the Italians?

[Kraco]

The lens C.C. gave Lelouch isn't just a normal contact lens its a Geass inhibitor it should be able to stop Rollo's Geass from acting on its own the same way it does for Lelouch. Also one would imagine if they were able to somehow capture Rollo or another Geass user and place it over his Geass that it would prevent him from being able to use his ability on anyone and considering C.C. is immune to the Geass abilities in the first place if she was so inclined she could easily stop Rollo who doesn't seem to have any normal enhanced physical abilities like Suzaku does.

I completely disagree. Everything we know about this contact lens was from that brief scene of C.C. and Lelouch, and it hardly revealed anything, except that C.C. didn't want to talk about it. Like Lelouch said himself, just blocking his vision would have been enough. I don't know what makes this one special but I'm still betting it's not any universal cure for Geass. If it was, the Empire probably would have used such a material for special purposes before, without the actual users knowing they are wearing something like that, of course, as a defence against Lelouch.

And no matter what kind of contact lens you have, I very much doubt it stops Geass more effectively than a Knightmare composite armour...

[Ryllharu]

The lens C.C. gave Lelouch isn't just a normal contact lens its a Geass inhibitor it should be able to stop Rollo's Geass from acting on its own the same way it does for Lelouch. Also one would imagine if they were able to somehow capture Rollo or another Geass user and place it over his Geass that it would prevent him from being able to use his ability on anyone and considering C.C. is immune to the Geass abilities in the first place if she was so inclined she could easily stop Rollo who doesn't seem to have any normal enhanced physical abilities like Suzaku does.
Uhh...baseless conjecture again?

The Emperor and Lelouch's Geass both operate visually. Eye contact must be made. That's why the contact lens will block Lelouch's power. He said that, 'then a normal contact would work,' and C.C. replied that 'it is a special contact lens.'

Sure, it's a special contact lens, but in no way do the lines imply that it's some form of "Geass Inhibitor" that anyone with a geass could completely cancel out their abilities.

Think about how the various Geass's we've seen work. Two require visual contact. Two don't. Mao didn't even need to see his targets. Once his went permanent, it was a constant sphere around him, and how deep he went into buried thoughts depended on his concentration level. Rollo's also doesn't require any eye contact at all. I just don't see how you can justify that huge leap from "it blocks your eye but you can still see out of it" to "you might be able to use it later to stop other people, who totally wouldn't notice a freaking contact in their eyes." in any way, shape, or form.

By "special," C.C. could simply mean that the lens is polarized or something similar so Lelouch can actually see out of it. He said "opaque." What her next line implied about it possibly not working if his Geass gets any stronger is that even blocking his eye might not work, or more benignly, that he'll get the effect in both eyes.




Now, if you had started with "I think that...," or "I bet that...," I wouldn't have problems with this. But you just make up random conjectures when we have no idea what C.C., one of the most secretive and capricious characters in nearly any series doesn't elaborate.

I don't know, you don't know. Don't say things like they are facts when you're only making it up off the faintest scraps of information.


EDIT: I should cut back on the ill-tempered sarcastic tone and vitriol...maybe the next post.

[KrayZ33]

well I imagine that the Geass shoots something like (lets call it) "lazers" out of their eyes and the lense stops these "lasers" :)

I know, it sounds ridicilous, but what i meant is that it could block something that comes out of the eyes which normally affect other people... so it doesn't matter if you need direct eye concact to the victim or not.

Since the "lasers" can't come out of the body or eyes, it won't affect anyone.

well this would only work if the eye is always the "carrier" of the Geass, but now that i think about it, it seems the "bird" in their eyes is often only a sideeffect and has nothing to do with the Geass itself, it's probably just a symptom for Geass users, something like a stigma.

(well however since Lelouch has to make eye-contact its most likely that his eyes are the geass)

[DDBen]

By "special," C.C. could simply mean that the lens is polarized or something similar so Lelouch can actually see out of it. He said "opaque." What her next line implied about it possibly not working if his Geass gets any stronger is that even blocking his eye might not work, or more benignly, that he'll get the effect in both eyes.


Now based on the eclipse dialog is completely different then the GG conversation. Lelouch in the eclipse version.
14:35-15:08

C.C. It will block your Geass that's unstoppable now.
Lelouch If all it takes is to block optic information, then a normal color contact would work...
C.C. Enough with the prying talk.
C.C. As you conjecture, that's a special one.
C.C. However if your Geass becomes stronger then it is now...
Lelouch: I will end it before that happens...
Lelouch ...This game!


Its clearly stated it doesn't just block his vision and a normal contact wouldn't work. Its also clear that no part of his eye is glowing with the Geass while the contact is on where it would based on the size of the contact vs the size of the eye though in anime thats pretty moot.

So if you don't believe that means the Geass is being blocked by the contact in a way thats beyond simply a visual blocker what do you think she means when she says stop prying its special after being asked if all it does is optically block the Geass.

[Kraco]

The size thing is a totally moot point like you said yourself, so let's forget it. The other point: What need does Lelouch have for some inhibitor one in the first place if a £10 opaque one would work just as well? The easily most convenient specialty would be that he could still see through it. Anything would work as an inhibitor so it's no specialty.

Why didn't C.C. want to talk about it? Maybe she wanted Lelouch to hit the road alreayd since they were busy. Maybe she didn't want to tell where she got it (maybe it was meant for Mao originally and she doesn't want to talk about it). Maybe she just wants to tease Lelouch by not telling and keeping up her mysterious image. Maybe she got it when she bought 10 Pizza Hut pizzas, and telling that to Lelouch would kind of make it cheap.

The bottom line is that until we know we don't know. If Lelouch throws it into Rollo's eye and suddenly Rollo is totally unable to use his geass, then we can go back to more interesting speculations as it doesn't seem like Rollo needs an eye contact in the first place.

[DDBen]

ok Kraco based on what you stated explain to me whats the difference between a contact lens that prevents a visual Geass from working yet allows you to see through it normally and a contact that does nothing but inhibit a Geass from working.

I see absolutely no difference between those two things and don't see how you can claim the first to be true and yet insist the second must be false.

[Ryllharu]

Its clearly stated it doesn't just block his vision and a normal contact wouldn't work. Its also clear that no part of his eye is glowing with the Geass while the contact is on where it would based on the size of the contact vs the size of the eye though in anime thats pretty moot.You said yourself it was moot that the contact appears to cover the entire Geass where it normally should not. I agree. It's anime. It's not really that important for that part of the argument. So based on that, you conjecture that it is more than that. So I have to ask, are you claiming it's special because the anime takes liberties in animating the contact that normally wouldn't cover his Geass? But you're admitting that the liberties taken may in fact cover the whole Geass. So which is it? But like Kraco, I'm willing to let that one go.

As for the subs, I was paraphrasing eclipse's subs. The message was the same in the subs or in my post.


So if you don't believe that means the Geass is being blocked by the contact in a way thats beyond simply a visual blocker what do you think she means when she says stop prying its special after being asked if all it does is optically block the Geass.She is C.C. and he's Lelouch. She has that snappish, motherly/big sister/lover vibe that makes her character so great. She knows Lelouch is trying to appear all smart and cutting him down. That's the way I took it. She's mysterious. She always does things that way.

Is he trying to glean details that aren't there? Is she just messing with him? Are there inconsequential details that neither Lelouch nor the audience needs to know? She was implying that it just works, and he shouldn't be asking. Maybe the goal is to confuse and anger us with utterly pointless over analysis of these lines. Again, we don't know.

Once more I will reiterate my point in my last post. It's one thing to say, "I'm guessing there's something special about it." Like I did with assuming it's polarized in a way that will render the wavelengths of light that the Geass functions on ineffective and other scientific-bullshit (tm). It's another to say, "That must really mean [this]," without any real supporting evidence. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

But, my real problem, and I suspect Kraco's is as well, is this section of your post.

The lens C.C. gave Lelouch isn't just a normal contact lens its a Geass inhibitor it should be able to stop Rollo's Geass from acting on its own the same way it does for Lelouch. Also one would imagine if they were able to somehow capture Rollo or another Geass user and place it over his Geass that it would prevent him from being able to use his ability on anyone
Not all Geass's work the same. Mao's required nothing. Concentration only. As KrayZ33, said:

but now that i think about it, it seems the "bird" in their eyes is often only a sideeffect and has nothing to do with the Geass itself, it's probably just a symptom for Geass users, something like a stigma.
Rollo's doesn't appear to require anything either. Does that mean that blocking the eyes will prevent them from working? Absolutely not. We don't know the requirement of Rollo's, but we know it doesn't require looking at someone in the eye. Viletta was behind him. The BK's were all in Knightmares.

Using whatever "special" material the contact contains won't necessarily do anything.

That's the problem I have with your post. You are selectively choosing C.C.'s words and ignoring the sparse facts we do know about the Geass abilities of others beside Lelouch, and the Emperor (because he told Suzaku to force Lelouch to look at him).



EDIT:
As for "inhibit" versus "block," in two posts you used it two different ways. In the first that I've bolded and underlined parts of, you use it as something that would actually reduce the abilities, like Raksharta's machines kill the power and drive in the Lancelot twice last season. "Block" just means it can't be seen, thus not enabling Lelouch to use it, but the power is still there, blazing away behind the lens.

Then in your subsequent posts, you switch meanings, going back to both of them meaning "block."

EDIT 2:
(overemphasis made this post really inelegant looking and very ugly, diminishing the effect of some of my statements by making me look vitriolic again. I've cleaned it up.)

[animus]

Was I the only one that actually preferred gg's subs to Eclipse for this episode? Some of Eclipse's wording was rather awkward, atleast I thought so.

[Ryllharu]

My issues from gg are less about the translation or subbing, and more on the encoding end. They are the same size, but somehow gg's always give me slowdown during the OP and the audio desyncs. It's fine by the time it gets to the episode (after a quick tracking bar jump in MPC). It's not my codecs, which are up to date, or processor, as Eclipse's works fine.

I didn't really notice much a difference between phrasing or word choice.

[KrayZ33]

the gg version had some robot-voices in it.

or is my file corrupt? (well it made it sound a bit more sinister so it was all right lol :) )

[Ryllharu]

I think it's the raw. I noticed those tinny voices in Eclipse's version, not gg's strangely enough. Though I wasn't paying too much attention to gg's because I knew I'd get Eclipse's later.

[DDBen]

She is C.C. and he's Lelouch. She has that snappish, motherly/big sister/lover vibe that makes her character so great. She knows Lelouch is trying to appear all smart and cutting him down. That's the way I took it. She's mysterious. She always does things that way.

Regardless of C.C.'s personality had it simply been a contact lens to blind Lelouch in one eye and her words were just teasing him he would have easily noticed it blinding him in that eye when putting it on as there was nothing to indicate he couldn't see out of that eye and he was looking out of his eye's sideways at those following him its safe to say its not something that simply blinds him in that eye it somehow filters out the Geass and we know he can use his Geass through glasses if he's directly looking at the person already.



Not all Geass's work the same. Mao's required nothing. Concentration only. As KrayZ33, said:

Rollo's doesn't appear to require anything either. Does that mean that blocking the eyes will prevent them from working? Absolutely not. We don't know the requirement of Rollo's, but we know it doesn't require looking at someone in the eye. Viletta was behind him. The BK's were all in Knightmares.


Using whatever "special" material the contact contains won't necessarily do anything.


Actually we are shown EXACTLY how Rollo's Geass works in this episode.

11:20-11:45

We see a build up of red in his Geass eye and that sends out a pulse in all directions. When a person is hit by the pulse of light they get a red ring around there eye in the same way that someone does while Lelouch is giving them a command or they are acting out a command from his Geass. So one could assume that if his eye with the Geass has the same contact lens put on it as Lelouch has that the red light would be filtered out by the contact and the effect wouldn't take place.

You see thats me providing evidence to support a hypothesis which I've made and am using in a discussion. Stating crap like the show hasn't blatantly told us this is idiotic and counterproductive in a discussion thread. Feel free to provide your own evidence to disprove the Hypothesis I've made and I'll be sure to read your evidence and discuss its merits don't simply shoot things down because you don't agree with how I interpret my proof disagree and move on or choose not to discuss it but sitting there arguing with people telling them to stop discussing things because they haven't been stated which at the point that takes place its no longer a discussion its a fact.

You called me earlier on something you didn't believe to be a fact that I stated in a way you felt I unjustly called it a fact. I've clarified and stated my evidence you have provided nothing except saying you don't believe it based on whats provided at this time. Thats your right but unless you can disprove what I've said with your own evidence badgering my posts and insisting your unsupported side of things is correct is far worse then what you insist I'm doing for some reason.




That's the problem I have with your post. You are selectively choosing C.C.'s words and ignoring the sparse facts we do know about the Geass abilities of others beside Lelouch, and the Emperor (because he told Suzaku to force Lelouch to look at him).


You see I'm not ignoring anything we know. The only Geass we have seen that is not directly related to the eye's of the user is Mao's and that one we simply don't know enough about how it works and we know he's had it for much much longer then Lelouch and I would assume much longer then Rollo.

The Emperor is in the same boat as Mao he's likely used his Geass much to extensively to be effected by the contact lens. C.C. stated if Lelouch uses his Geass enough the lens will not effect his either so the only Geass we know about that are likely able to be effected by it are Lelouch and Rollo and I see no reason to believe they wouldn't both be effected.




As for "inhibit" versus "block," in two posts you used it two different ways. In the first that I've bolded and underlined parts of, you use it as something that would actually reduce the abilities, like Raksharta's machines kill the power and drive in the Lancelot twice last season. "Block" just means it can't be seen, thus not enabling Lelouch to use it, but the power is still there, blazing away behind the lens.

Then in your subsequent posts, you switch meanings, going back to both of them meaning "block."


No I've stated these in different locations. When I've stated block I've ment it in reference to the act of simply covering the eye and making Lelouch unable to see through it. When I've said inhibit I've talked about the contact lens actually nullifying the Geass ability in his eye as long as its in place. I believe the lens inhibits the ability because in the future as it becomes stronger the lens will no longer be useful to contain its powers and this to me means it takes the power level of the Geass and turns it down X notches on a power scale.

for purpose of scale lets say Lelouch currently has a Geass of level 5 and the contact lens can inhibit the power of a Geass under level 10. This would mean if in the future Lelouch uses his Geass enough to bring its level upto a 11 the contact could only bring it down to a 1 (11-10 = 1) and as such would no longer be effective in reducing its power.

In contrast it is correct to assume we can't assign a level to the power of Rollo's Geass we don't know how long he's had it or how it levels. Its completely possible the contact would do nothing to him and its possible it would completely inhibit his ability.

*note the level stuff is used only to show the concept and at no point have they directly talked about a level system for a Geass. Its simply been stated the more you use one the stronger it is.

[Ryllharu]

Fair enough.

I'm still not convinced in any way that Rollo's Geass has anything to do with his eye because the evidence just doesn't support what you are claiming. How are you explaining away Viletta, or anything in the Knightmares? Both instances where the eye wouldn't be a factor.

I'm seeing what you explained as just a visual representation of what's occurring. Lelouch's worked the same way all through last season, well, up to eps 22 anyway. The "bird" flapped and shot out right into the eyes of his targets. Do you think that that is literally happening each time? It can't because there are several points in last season where Lelouch simply Geass's someone without that visual effect. The V just shows up and it works.

Sure the power may be emanating from Rollo's eye, but that does not mean that his eyes have anything direct to do with his power. It works both through the frames (and therefore display screens) of Knightmares, possibly solid walls, and as we saw directly with Viletta, no line of sight needed. Much more like Mao's.

I still wonder how exactly you propose Lelouch gets his contact lens into Rollo's eye, or anyone's eye, much less have them keep it there. Geass them I suppose, but the same affect could be had by simply Geassing them in the first place, like he thwarted Mao by commanding him to "shut up" and rendered his ability useless.


Regardless of C.C.'s personality had it simply been a contact lens to blind Lelouch in one eye and her words were just teasing him he would have easily noticed it blinding him in that eye when putting it on as there was nothing to indicate he couldn't see out of that eye and he was looking out of his eye's sideways at those following him its safe to say its not something that simply blinds him in that eye it somehow filters out the Geass and we know he can use his Geass through glasses if he's directly looking at the person already.
As for C.C. and the material of the contact lens, I do enjoy how you reciprocate while saying I'm not putting evidence out either. I particularly enjoy you cutting off a quote short and then repeating what I had just used to counter something you had said, only now as your own.

Once more I will reiterate my point in my last post. It's one thing to say, "I'm guessing there's something special about it." Like I did with assuming it's polarized in a way that will render the wavelengths of light that the Geass functions on ineffective and other scientific-bullshit (tm).Does that make it "special" enough to block Rollo's if Lelouch was somehow able to get the lens into his eye? I doubt it. But it works for Lelouch's who's Geass definitely does operate on line-of-sight, visible light wavelengths.

Rollo's as illustrated (again, through Knightmares, walls, smoke, and reversed through his own skull) does not. C.C. implied that if it got stronger, the methods in the lens might not function anymore. As I said before, Lelouch's may get strong enough work through materials or operate at different wavelength of light, or simply be in both eyes. I believe that C.C. was merely pointing out one of those possibilities. Not nearly as far as you are attempting to reach.



But I think I'm done feeding the troll.

The last word on this is either yours or someone else who feels up to countering you. If you're going to keep making most of these blanket statements up, I think it's better off to simply glance over your posts and ignore them. (Not all your posts though, this one was quite good.) The least you could do is say they are guesses, or predictions rather than stating them as "fact."

[DDBen]

Fair enough.

I'm still not convinced in any way that Rollo's Geass has anything to do with his eye because the evidence just doesn't support what you are claiming. How are you explaining away Viletta, or anything in the Knightmares? Both instances where the eye wouldn't be a factor.

I'm seeing what you explained as just a visual representation of what's occurring. Lelouch's worked the same way all through last season, well, up to eps 22 anyway. The "bird" flapped and shot out right into the eyes of his targets. Do you think that that is literally happening each time? It can't because there are several points in last season where Lelouch simply Geass's someone without that visual effect. The V just shows up and it works.

Sure the power may be emanating from Rollo's eye, but that does not mean that his eyes have anything direct to do with his power. It works both through the frames (and therefore display screens) of Knightmares, possibly solid walls, and as we saw directly with Viletta, no line of sight needed. Much more like Mao's.

I still wonder how exactly you propose Lelouch gets his contact lens into Rollo's eye, or anyone's eye, much less have them keep it there. Geass them I suppose, but the same affect could be had by simply Geassing them in the first place, like he thwarted Mao by commanding him to "shut up" and rendered his ability useless.


First off I didn't propose a method of inserting the contact I simply stated it was possible it would negate his Geass if they were able to get the contact into his eye. I still have no real proposal on how it can be done but I must assume his Geass has some range limitation and he isn't pausing the planet each time he uses his Geass.

As for Rollo's power and the representation of Lelouch's Geass. I always saw the bird from Lelouch going to the other person to be a visual representation of him taking over there mind and it creating a link. In Rollo's case I see his eye as building up power and then dispersing it in all directions in a wave. Simply put Rollo does not need line of site because anything hit by his Geass gets the same command "stop". While Lelouch needs line of sight because he's giving the target or targets he's looking at a much more complicated set of commands. Essentially if Lelouch looked at someone and told them to stop and never move again it would have a continuous effect on a person that was similar to the short term effect that Rollo appears to have. Please note I also assume Rollo's Geass has a extremely short duration because otherwise he wouldn't have kept reappearing in his battle with Kallen and whats his name from the 4 holy swords.




As for C.C. and the material of the contact lens, I do enjoy how you reciprocate while saying I'm not putting evidence out either. I particularly enjoy you cutting off a quote short and then repeating what I had just used to counter something you had said, only now as your own.


I'm not sure what your claiming I didn't include in your previous statement that you think I repeated to claim it as my own so feel free to enlighten me on this.




Does that make it "special" enough to block Rollo's if Lelouch was somehow able to get the lens into his eye? I doubt it. But it works for Lelouch's who's Geass definitely does operate on line-of-sight, visible light wavelengths.

Rollo's as illustrated (again, through Knightmares, walls, smoke, and reversed through his own skull) does not. C.C. implied that if it got stronger, the methods in the lens might not function anymore. As I said before, Lelouch's may get strong enough work through materials or operate at different wavelength of light, or simply be in both eyes. I believe that C.C. was merely pointing out one of those possibilities. Not nearly as far as you are attempting to reach.


As stated Rollo's is a effect created by a pulse of energy if you can block that energy you can block his Geass. There is no reason a random Wall, Knightmare, smoke or his own skull would be equipped to stop a unknown type of energy. That contact on the other hand seems to be made to do exactly that. Of interesting note Rollo didn't use his Geass on Lelouch until he removed the contact and attempted to use his own on Rollo.




The last word on this is either yours or someone else who feels up to countering you. If you're going to keep making most of these blanket statements up, I think it's better off to simply glance over your posts and ignore them. (Not all your posts though, this one was quite good.) The least you could do is say they are guesses, or predictions rather than stating them as "fact."

I'm not making blanket statements and anytime I've been asked or requested to do so I have gone ahead and explained any questionable statement I've made. I've also provided timestamps dialog and analysis of the scenes where I came to the conclusions. Many times I've had long posts reduced to a single line and had someone yourself and others decide they need to beat something they misinterpreted or something I poorly explained into the ground. I'm not perfect and sometimes I make mistakes but I'm willing to discuss them and while I don't always agree with what you have to say Ryllharu. I do respect you take the time to have a discussion in a thread instead of wandering around blindly derepping people with no real reason (atleast if there is a reason they sure leave it blank most of the time). Discussion is good and I don't believe that anyone who finds fault in my posts shouldn't reply to them thats why we are on a forum in the first place.

I do believe people shouldn't put words into others mouths and that you shouldn't blindly shoot down a hypothesis someone puts out there unless you have a factual reason for doing so the same way you seem to believe someone shouldn't make a claim without being able to back it up with information provided in the show. I clearly have provided those scenes along with timestamps and which sub group I'm referring to all I ask is that you and others who are so quick to judge things do the same.

[Kraco]

ok Kraco based on what you stated explain to me whats the difference between a contact lens that prevents a visual Geass from working yet allows you to see through it normally and a contact that does nothing but inhibit a Geass from working.

I see absolutely no difference between those two things and don't see how you can claim the first to be true and yet insist the second must be false.

I'm just repeating Ryllharu's words, but I feel like I need to answer to this because it was a direct response to my post. In short, until proven otherwise, I'm going to believe the contact lens only blocks a geass that's based on visual line-of-sight. Like a filter. So, it doesn't actually do anything to the geass. In this sense, it would be the same as an opaque lens, except that Lelouch can still see through it like a normal person would, retaining stereo vision.

A lens that would inhibit a geass would mean the geass eye, no matter what kind of a geass eye, would stop working if the contact lens is next to it. So, even Mao's geass would be inhibited, provided the inhibition effect is strong enough. Like a medicine that's injected into your veins. In this case naturally also Rollo's geass, or the emperor's geass, would be stopped, should somebody stick these contact lenses into their eyes.

Now, I'm not sure if that is even what you had in mind, but you gave me the impression this is what you were thinking. And I've to note here that likely it would be much harder for C.C. to come up with such a lens than just one that filters the kind of geass Lelouch is using, although I admit there is no certainty of that. There could as well be some very common substance that universally inhibits a geass eye. Who knows, maybe there is but unfortunately it's carcinogenic, so C.C. didn't want to mention it. Or maybe she didn't want to mention it because it would be a huge geass weakness and she fears Lelouch might leak the information out. Or considering the connection between C.C.'s kind and the geass, maybe that substance is highly toxic to C.C. (she didn't touch the contact lens, just the box it was in).

I'm also finished with this conversation with this post. I feel like it hasn't moved absolutely anywhere since the very start.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm also finished with this conversation with this post. I feel like it hasn't moved absolutely anywhere since the very start.

Well that gives me the opportunity to start something new. I'm going to guess that Rollo's Geass has a fire rate, so he can't use it during it's cool-down period. Also, how his Geass actually stops people's perception of time is still unclear. For example, if he Geassed a driver, would the car still move because the pedal is pressed? Hopefully Rollo will give Lelouch an explanation before he fires.

[shinta|hikari]

I think it, meaning Rollo's geass, only stops people (maybe animals??), nothing else.

I really doubt the contact lens Lelouch is using can inhibit Rollo's geass, for reasons so obvious I am surprised people actually discussed it this far. But everything is possible, since the lens is "special".

I personally interpreted the contact lens conversation as "colored" and not opaque. Lelouch probably meant something like his mask, rather than something that completely blocks his vision. What is so special about C.C.'s contact lens is yet to be revealed.

[DDBen]

The contact that CC gave Lelouch was obviously developed previously or else there is no way C.C. would have simply had one or would have known it could stop Lelouch's Geass ahead of time. The only other person we know C.C. gave a Geass to is Mao so either it was something designed to block his Geass or something created to generally stop a Geass that was created by C.C.'s people.

Seems everyone agrees the contact doesn't just stop vision and blocks something to do with the Geass. So unless someone previously had the exact same Geass as Lelouch which is a possibility because its likely his mother contracted with C.C. before her death. Then there is no reason she would have been both sure the contact would deal with Lelouch's permanent Geass and likely not work if his Geass got stronger.

.@Buffalobiian I stated how I believe Rollo's Geass works in some of my massive posts but I don't expect you guys to read those.

Simply put it seems his Geass has a brief charge up period before sending out pulse from his eye that expands in all directions. I fully agree he can't keep his Geass up nonstop the Knightmare battle proved that because otherwise he could have beaten Kallen and the Holy blade(name?) before he "reappeared" at all. I will also assume the greater the range he uses the shorter the period it stops peoples brains.

As has been pointed out the water didn't stop so it doesn't stop motion. Also the guy Rollo stabs doesn't fall over until after his Geass ends. Of course we don't know how soon before it ends Rollo stabs him but that might mean there body is completely frozen until the end of the Geass.

[David75]

Now that I think about it...
Who did conceal Lelouch's Geass for that year when his memories were rewritten?

This is to be discovered, since he had no special lens and his Geass was still active when he was brought to the emperor by Suzaku... so I doubt CC was able to stop the Geass later.

That could mean the emperor can rewrite memories and conceal/rewrite what his necessary for the Geass to express itself. The emperor might be the strongest Geass user, or possesses someone/something who has extended power/control on anyone's Geass.

[KrayZ33]

Hmm, since a geass affects the brainwaves of the one its used against, (at least Lelouch's does i think, it was mentioned in season 1) its probably the same thing with his own brain.

It could be the case that his brain can't shut of the geass, because it got used to its activation.
Well, if his memories are rewritten, it could have an effect on his brainwaves and his brain is like: "hey, for what is this switch here?... hmm i can't remember it so its better to turn it off"

(crappy explanation because of ultra-low english skills, it has to do with neurons etc. but thats too hard for me to explain)

[David75]

Hmm, since a geass affects the brainwaves of the one its used against, (at least Lelouch's does i think, it was mentioned in season 1) its probably the same thing with his own brain.

It could be the case that his brain can't shut of the geass, because it got used to its activation.
Well, if his memories are rewritten, it could have an effect on his brainwaves and his brain is like: "hey, for what is this switch here?... hmm i can't remember it so its better to turn it off"

(crappy explanation because of ultra-low english skills, it has to do with neurons etc. but thats too hard for me to explain)

Basically, if one of the processes or variable is rewriten, you break the loop and the Geass can't work. Once le processes are back to normal, Geass is reactivated.
For neurons, that could mean that a part of the route needed to activate the Geass is not accessible due to the rewrite that basically is a change of neural routes. No route going to the activation means no Geass.

Basically simple, just a clever use the Emperor would make, which is basically very consistent with him having his Geass for a long time and being a very strong mastermind.

[Kraco]

An interesting and highly important detail is, of course, that the emperor didn't rewrite Lelouch's memories. He just suppressed his real memories and implanted false memories. This was made evident when our favorite witch returned Lelouch to normal. He could once again access his old memories but still the false/new ones as well.

Now, manipulating someone's memories in such a manner is indeed quite a powerful and sophisticated technique so I wouldn't put it past the emperor to be able to reset Lelouch's constantly on geass as well.

[Chiodos]

I do hope they start to deepen it more in S2. It feels like they left out so many things wich the usage or any type of info about it.

I still have a slightly memorie that C.C pointed out that Suzaku has some type of connection to it.
And what about Marianne?
The origins of the Geass users?
Can EVERYONE have Geass?

So little time, so much Lelouch domination!!1

[David75]

An interesting and highly important detail is, of course, that the emperor didn't rewrite Lelouch's memories. He just suppressed his real memories and implanted false memories. This was made evident when our favorite witch returned Lelouch to normal. He could once again access his old memories but still the false/new ones as well.

Now, manipulating someone's memories in such a manner is indeed quite a powerful and sophisticated technique so I wouldn't put it past the emperor to be able to reset Lelouch's constantly on geass as well.

The implantation did rewrite/temporarilly some parts for him having his geass deactivated and for him not being able to access memories from when he was Zero and CC and so on.

This may be just little details and it may be a bit boring to discuss such, unless this proves useful in future eps, like the contact lens.

[Kraco]

Oh, I was never denying that (your post wasn't even there yet when I was writing mine, anyway). I just said that because saying rewrite kind of gives the impression you are writing something on top of the old info, which consequently leads to the removal of what once was. And since Lelouch got his memories back perfectly, obviously nothing was replaced.

[Chiodos]

Oh, I was never denying that (your post wasn't even there yet when I was writing mine, anyway). I just said that because saying rewrite kind of gives the impression you are writing something on top of the old info, which consequently leads to the removal of what once was. And since Lelouch got his memories back perfectly, obviously nothing was replaced.

Then I got a simple theory that means that the King (name help here, please) can't use his Geass at a full. Otherwise, it would be way better if he did replace memories instead of just locking them. He could, this may be far fetched, remove Lulu's Geass or make it unusuable.
What I also can add is that he may need more "regular" users (what to call them? Simple Humans?) to explore the Geass itself so he can...uuh... dominate the world even more.

[Kraco]

To be fair is one person under very special circumstances gets his memories back, it doesn't yet make the King's technique inefficient. However, if more of the students start to regain lost things within their brains, then the geass can be evaluated somewhat weaker than we initially thought.

[David75]

The emperor clearly stated Lelouch was still useful. That may explain why the Geass he used on Lelouch wasn't permanent.
For some reason, Lelouch kicking some britanian asses is important for him to some plot he concocted. And I don't think this is just a matter of the strong taking the lead, seems too simple for such a show.
What matters more to me is that we know nothing of Lelouch's mother, yet she was a powerful memory driving Lelouch in S1, as strong as Nunally.

Another guess is that Emperor's Geass also has limitations, if you use very extensive memory changes, you probably can't Geass the person twice. But if you operate why small touches, you can probably Geass them multiple times.
My guess is that Lelouch has been Geassed more than once by the Emperor... that could explain why we know nothing about Lelouch's mother, because his memories could have been implanted on the matter.

My guess is that Lelouch should focus a little more on what his Geass can or can't do and wether he can modulate it for a more versatile use and limit the effects on his own body.
But Geass modulation is pure speculation from Mao whose Geass grew stronger and stronger to a limit where insanity struck him.

[Yukimura]

That just gave me an idea. We don't fully know how one geass reacts when it directly opposes another. Maybe Cornelia did know something about the death of Marianne but the Emperor put new memories into her when she found out. If this was the case I imagine Lelouch's geass might not have penetrated deeply enough to make her remember the truth as it was before she was rewritten by the Emperor, but then again perhaps the command to tell the truth would push the false memories aside.

I hope they'll work in some sort of explanation as to what would really happen to a person if they were under the influence of more than one opposing geass at once.

[Ryllharu]

@David:
The reason we know nothing about Marianne is because it was all covered up. I'm convinced she was real. Not only did Nunnnally (who is blind and remembers her, hard to implant memories that way) but Cornelia, Clovis, and Euphie were very fond on her too. Now, your proposition may explain why Cornelia and Orange-kun didn't remember any of the details of the attack, other than they were all driven away from her.

But most importantly, C.C. knows of and talks to Marianne (when she's talking to empty space). C.C. probably would not be affected by the Emperor's Geass, even though he got his powers through another contractor. Not to mention it does not look like the two of them have had any contact in some time.

@Kraco and others on that line of conversation:
I wonder if we will see C.C. touching any of the Student Council members to bring their memories back, and what the consequences of say...Shirley or Milly remembering. Shirley would be all kinds of problems, believing that Lelouch did something really awful to her when he had really just reduced her emotional turmoil and pain, not to mention her knowing for sure that he is Zero.

Milly on the other hand, is a very driven person. Usually her little plans have been stupid fun events for everyone, but a very different side of her showed up when Kallen revealed herself to be one of the leading members of the Black Knights. Milly is very resourceful, and probably equally dangerous when pressed.

On another note, did they brainwash all the students to wipe out the memory of Nunnally? She was a council member nonetheless, and being Lelouch's sister and prominently living on campus in the council building should have made her very noticeable.



@DDBen: You asked me something nicely (I forgot what it was), so I'll respond with a PM a little later.

[Munsu]

I'm not up-to-date with the series, but I'm wondering what group you guys think is the best.

The ones I'm interested in are gg, Eclipse, and Syndicate-Menclave. I don't care about speed, though most of them seem to be releasing quickly. Who do you guys feel has the best translation, editors, etc.?

Right now I'm leeching all these versions, and I want to get them off my harddrive and only keep the version I'll likely watch when I get to it.

[DDBen]

Eclipse is superior to GG based on Encoding the translations are fairly close. I haven't tried out Syndicate-Menclave yet though so I can't really say on them.

[RyougaZell]

I saw both GG and Eclipse of episodes 1 and 2.
At the end I kept GG and deleted Eclipse. Did not bother to download ep 3 from them.

Menclave took 2 weeks to release ep1, and I did not try to download their version.

[TheBladeChild]

The 3rd episode has been out and I still havent decided what group to go with. I archived GG's CG S1, Iv always liked Eclipse and Menclave did a great job on Gundam 00.

[Buffalobiian]

I've only downloaded the Eclipse versions, and I'm happy with them. Haven't tried anything else.

[Ryllharu]

RyougaZell, would you mind saying why you picked gg over Eclipse? Just curious.

I've had encoding issues with GG on my computer (2.66 Ghz single core) despite CoreAVC and up to date codecs. Mostly slowdown during the OP. Their translation for episode 1 was a little weaker than Eclipse's but they have improved back up to their old standards and are equal to Eclipse.

Eclipse has great encoding, efficient as always, but some of the name choices I disagree with (Karen instead of Kallen, etc). However, I can easily overlook this, and I know gg changed the spelling of a few character's names many times over the course of season 1, so it wasn't like they were any better at first either ("Millay" and three versions of "Nanali").

I have not tried Syndicate-Menclave and have no intention of doing so, so I will not make any judgments on their subs.

[MFauli]

man, whats with that special forum?

Totally missed ep 3 because i didnt see a topic about Code Geass :-/

Whatever, great second season. I just hope they dont mix too much together. Also, is it just me or seems the presentation of this season a bit...hm, dont know...i just got the impression, that the show maker KNW how popular Code Geass is, and that you can feel that a bit. Not that it´s bad right now, i only hope they dont take it over the top.

[KrayZ33]

.i just got the impression, that the show maker KNW how popular Code Geass is, and that you can feel that a bit. Not that it´s bad right now, i only hope they dont take it over the top.


hmmm? explain

[Kraco]

hmmm? explain

Indeed. I think going a little over the top is one of the trademarks of Code Geass in general, right from the beginning. It's a win or fail plan, but we all know which one of those two has been so far this series's fate.

[NM]

I've had encoding issues with GG on my computer (2.66 Ghz single core) despite CoreAVC and up to date codecs. Mostly slowdown during the OP. Their translation for episode 1 was a little weaker than Eclipse's but they have improved back up to their old standards and are equal to Eclipse.

I'm actually having this problem too, but with Eclipse's version. I get that slowdown at the part of the opening around 1:47, where you see all the characters coming out. I'm running CCCP but I'm not really sure if I'm on the latest version. I'll update again if theres a new version out.

And as for fansubbers, I've only been getting Eclipse's. Good speed and great encode. GG did a good job with Geass season 1 but I think Eclipse is the superior group compared to them personally.

Menclave has been a really slow group now as of late but they did a fantastic job with Gundam 00. Normally I might have at least archived theirs but Eclipse's encode is good enough for me so I plan to stick with them. I don't want to wait another 3 weeks for Menclave to release 3 episodes at once like they did with Gundam 00. I need my Geass fix on a weekly basis!

[Yukimura]

Not much new to add, I also prefer Eclipse to GG for their slight encoding edge (to my eyes at least) and because I like their word choice better. Syndicate-Menclave tries to distance itself from its Shinsen association but name recognition is a pretty big factor in this scene and when I see syndicate AKA Shinsen I tend to look for an alternative.

Looking at the credits on the Syndicate-Menclave's release may be a good idea though as it's generally translation and editing where Shinsen loses support.

[Everon]

(God I have too much time) I'm stuck somewhere between. In terms of translation, I liked Eclipse episode 1, Menclave's episode 2 and GG's episode 3.

But honestly, I think all of them do an excellent job. Right now its coming down to which encode looks sharper. Probably going to end up with Menclave-Syndicate.

[RyougaZell]

RyougaZell, would you mind saying why you picked gg over Eclipse? Just curious.

I've had encoding issues with GG on my computer (2.66 Ghz single core) despite CoreAVC and up to date codecs. Mostly slowdown during the OP. Their translation for episode 1 was a little weaker than Eclipse's but they have improved back up to their old standards and are equal to Eclipse.

Eclipse has great encoding, efficient as always, but some of the name choices I disagree with (Karen instead of Kallen, etc). However, I can easily overlook this, and I know gg changed the spelling of a few character's names many times over the course of season 1, so it wasn't like they were any better at first either ("Millay" and three versions of "Nanali").

I have not tried Syndicate-Menclave and have no intention of doing so, so I will not make any judgments on their subs.

Well... both HD versions don't run at all in my PC. So I am watching them on the Laptop I got from work (mind you, its not mine, but I don't leave the episodes there at the end).

I watched both versions on both episodes 1 and 2, and Eclipse did had better translations on the first episode, but the second one I saw them on par. 3rd I was lazy to get... so in the end I choose GG because they released first.

Work's Laptop is the only thing that allows me to see HD anime for now... I need to buy a new computer soon. I do not get slow down with either version there. My PC has a very awful slow down as well.

[Shinji Ikari]

Immature post, so braise yourselves. Eclipse FTW! I always download both their versions, one for the PC (together with my tv) and one for my PS3 that can't play mkv. Eclipse always makes things that work on the PS3.

[Sapphire]

Ep 5 apparently leaked (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-04-25/images-from-code-geass-r2-episode-5-reportedly-leaked)

[Buffalobiian]

Looks like CG's popularity is reaching some people's heads. If it wasn't before, things are looking suspicious. Or maybe not. Do things like this happen all the time on streaming channels, just that no one gave a damn, or is this rare? (and hence, suspiciously accidental.)

[RyougaZell]

Again?
If this keeps up we will be needed a 'Leaked Thread' in the near future...

I managed to not see the leaked video of episode 3... so hopefully I will not see this leaked screenshots of episode 5 either.

[RyougaZell]

Just fresh.

Out by GG.

http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/%5bgg%5d_Code_Geass_R2_-_04_%5b2B3B18E2%5d.mkv.torrent

(currently downloading from IRC personally)

EDIT:
For the record.
Ryllharu and I posted a thread at the same time. I believe his was posted seconds before mine (both posted at 1:48) since his appeared before mine.
I do not see it anymore, a mod must have taken it down, so I just wanted to share that :p

[Idealistic]

I have never been so excited to look forward to sundays until code geass came along.

[Buffalobiian]

[Eclipse]Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 04 h264 1280x720 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2004%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5b31F06C5D%5d.mkv.tor rent)
[Eclipse]Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 04 XviD (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2004%20(XviD)%20%5bDE01FD2C%5d.avi.torrent)

[David75]

Always the same old "structure" in his desperate plans (double meaning there...)
It's getting old.

The twist is that in the end Lelouch may be caught to his own game regarding his plans for rollo. We'll see.

[RyougaZell]

Fantastic episode from beginning to end.

Viletta looked happy that Ogi escaped.
Rollo was very much used this episode.
Damn Suzaku is back.

At a loss of words mostly.

[animus]

Die Suzaku please.

[Kraco]

Quite a desperate plot indeed. And of course only worked because Rollo allowed himself to be used like a real tool. I actually pitied him a little. But then again, wars are full of people being used. I hope starting from here we will get a bit more Lelouch - C.C. interaction. Kallen and C.C. seem to be chatting all the time now that Kallen knows the big secret but as funny as those discussions can be, they can't replace the Lelouch-C.C. pair.

[Yukimura]

Nice, though not as nice as the previous eps I must admit. I can't wait for the inevitable Rollo vs Suzaku "I Won't Let You Hurt My Fake Brother" clash. There should be some awesome emo facial distortions and if Rollo uses his geass he might (MIGHT) stand a chance at at least slowing Suzaku down so Lelouch can escape.

And the Chinese represent a pretty big wildcard in this season which I hope they can live up to.

[Board of Command]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5255/snapshot20080427174415nq3.jpg

I drink your milkshake! I drink it up! DRAINAGE!!!!!!

[KrayZ33]

I don't like what he does to Rolloskater :(

[Shinji Ikari]

It's so like Lelouch, but it's kinda sad, Rollo is just a confused child who has never had a real life. If Lelouch could think of him as a brother instead of just pretend to think of him that way, I think that would be the best.

And god, I'm baffled that this series is actually still getting better by the ep, it's not just being super, it's going above and beyond.

[Idealistic]

It's so like Lelouch, but it's kinda sad, Rollo is just a confused child who has never had a real life. If Lelouch could think of him as a brother instead of just pretend to think of him that way, I think that would be the best.

And god, I'm baffled that this series is actually still getting better by the ep, it's not just being super, it's going above and beyond.

Yeah, watching this ep I also had the thought of what if Lelouch and Rolo really became close. But then when you think about what he did to Euphie, even though it was accidental he didn't care, I doubt that he would care about Rolo either.

[Ryllharu]

At least no real cliffhanger this time (oh no, Suzaku is back at school!)


Yeah, watching this ep I also had the thought of what if Lelouch and Rolo really became close. But then when you think about what he did to Euphie, even though it was accidental he didn't care, I doubt that he would care about Rolo either.
It's not that Lelouch didn't care about Eupie, he did. He just realized that he made a huge mistake with her, and resigned himself to cleaning up his mess and using it as best he could.

Definitely beginning to wonder where Cornelia is. The way Guilford was phrasing things, Cornelia wasn't at some retreat everyone knows about, she was pretty much missing. The ever angry Cornelia, broken and hidden away, wallowing in the pain of her lost sister? I just can't picture that.

Deithard mentioned that their plan (presumably for reuniting with Zero) will soon begin. Sayako also appears to be playing a huge role in it. In the year that has passed, what new skills has she learned? Has she at all? I kind of hope to see her in a more important role this time, since I really like Satomi Arai's voice. She's got some of the best range around, and can play some really twisted characters at times.

Viletta's relieved sigh, heh. It seems she does have very full memories of that time as Chigusa. It seems she's finally come to terms with it and is beginning to remember them fondly.

[oyabun]

Yeah the sigh gave it all. It seems that she's not fully over Ougi. This could be a key point in the future.

[TheBladeChild]

Anyone think there might be a 3rd season? Because it seems to me that there is just too much they have to include in this season:

1)The EU, we have what? seen like a total of 30secs from them?
2)The Chinease Federation
3)C.C's past
4)Cornelia
5)The rest of the Knights of the Round(we've only seen like 5?)
6)How Rollo will fit into Lelouche's plans after this episode
5)Sayako(I agree with Ryllharu on that she will be a lot more important later)
6)Nunally
7)The reformation of the OBK
8)The classic Lelouche vs Suzaku(now that Suzu is back in Japan)
9)The emperor and V.V.
10)Lelouche's school life

etc...

I mean I really think a lot of this will overlap over the course of several episodes but it seems to me that it would be a stretch to fit all of this and everything else that I forgot to mentioned, into the remaining 21 episodes.

[Buffalobiian]

Rollo is so going to break when Lelouch dumps him for Nannally. How will everyone react to Suzaku? Will he start over again as a new student, or will they remember him? I really wonder if the whole student council was brought in front of Charles or not. Maybe of C.C. was involved he might hide his pride, but he was pretty annoyed when Lelouch called a session over merely his dead mother.

Regarding Zero's plan to get Rollo. He said that if he escapes then the sniper could just go all out and kill Rollo. Why didn't he just do that, it was a direct hit. I agree that now his choice to play around with Rollo will cost him.

I don't see a third season, but instead heaps of supplement materials, like those picture books and other money earning merchandise.


Yeah the sigh gave it all. It seems that she's not fully over Ougi. This could be a key point in the future.

Who else sees them eloping and abandoning both sides at some critical (or not so critical) point in the series?

[MFauli]

Ah, Rollo is going to be Zero´s downfall if he doesnt kill him off soon. I totally got a Death Note-feeling in this episode :-/

[kenren]

A total win for Lelouch! And now with Rollo on his side... things are going to be more interesting :).

[Buffalobiian]

Rollo's going to be a fence sitter for episodes to come. He's just broken, and Zero's stolen his loyalty for now, but Suzaku's back, and he's not here to make friends. I'll be expecting him to swing back and forth as Suzaku and Lelouch mess with his mind.

The Chinese guy makes an interesting ally. He's teaming up with Zero, but only because he's able. As soon as he sees no profitability from him, he's going to ditch him or use him to his advantage. As C.C. said, he's good with politics.

[Shinji Ikari]

This is starting to build up a possibility that Suzaku (yuck, my tounge feels icky every time I say it) might also get a Geass. I mean if you look at it now it seems kinda impossible to beat the black knights. Rollo with his time freezing thing (I know it doesn't actually freeze time but I call it that) giving him super skills as a pilot, in reality even Suzaku wouldn't be able to match him. And then you have the mastermind Lelouch with the manipulation geass giving him super infiltration abilities, strategic smarts and whatnot.

So in a sense, the black knights have smarts and power now. This is SO awesome.

[MFauli]

ah, what i forgot to ask:

why can Rollo use his Geass on Lelouch? Geass-user cant use their Geass on other Geass-users, that´s been told in season one.

[Buffalobiian]

ah, what i forgot to ask:

why can Rollo use his Geass on Lelouch? Geass-user cant use their Geass on other Geass-users, that´s been told in season one.

That was never established. Geass users can't use Geass on beings like C.C. and V.V. Mao and Lelouch used it on each other. Emperor Charles used it on Lelouch. Rollo used it on Zero.

Edit: btw, Kallen's goodbye was badass.


Eclipse has great encoding, efficient as always, but some of the name choices I disagree with (Karen instead of Kallen, etc).(thread: Code Geass R2: Fansub Groups)

Eclipse used both versions of her name this episode. Kallen at 15:27 and Karen at 20:36. I've yet to confirm this, perhaps they use a different spelling for the person speaking.

Edit2: Zero always pronounced it as Kallen in episode 2.

[Shinji Ikari]

Has it, really? I must have missed that, because the emperor has used his on Lelouch and Mao used his on Lelouch. The only thing I remember is that Geass won't work against the witches. Maybe if that is true it might be that only Lelouch's won't work because it destroys/alters a part of the brain and that somehow the ones using geass are protected against this kind of brain damage. However, I do think that Lelouch could use his geass against a geass user, since the emperor tells Suzaku to cover Lelouch's eye when he wants to use his geass against Lelouch.

[animus]

I guess it was good that Cornelia was mentioned to be "lost". What could've stopped her from going back to Britannia? Planning some type of master plan against Lelouch? I couldn't recall but back when they were kids they weren't close right? Only Euphie, Lelouch and Nunnaly were close I 'd guess. So I guess there wouldn't be redemption if she decides to attack him, and he's alread Geass'd her.

[Inazuma]

This is starting to build up a possibility that Suzaku (yuck, my tounge feels icky every time I say it) might also get a Geass

You, sir, should go and die in a fire for just thinking of this as a possibility.


Die Suzaku please.

I kinda second that.


Anyone think there might be a 3rd season? Because it seems to me that there is just too much they have to include in this season:

1)The EU, we have what? seen like a total of 30secs from them?
2)The Chinease Federation
3)C.C's past
4)Cornelia
5)The rest of the Knights of the Round(we've only seen like 5?)
6)How Rollo will fit into Lelouche's plans after this episode
5)Sayako(I agree with Ryllharu on that she will be a lot more important later)
6)Nunally
7)The reformation of the OBK
8)The classic Lelouche vs Suzaku(now that Suzu is back in Japan)
9)The emperor and V.V.
10)Lelouche's school life


I see a third season here too ... After all, there is no Pwning Britannia anytime soon ... and to give closure, you either gotta kill the Double Geass Uber Emperor, Kill Zero or take over/destroy Britannia.

Then 3rd season.

[RyougaZell]

What I did not understand (lack of sleep) was why the Chinese guy killed his 'superior' and then helped the Black Knights.

[DDBen]

a third season will be determined by ratings alone thats just how this works.

Cornelia coming back wasn't something I was considering but its pretty clear she was only injured at the end of season 1 and not dead so its more then likely going to happen. Now after Lelouch used his Geass on her she said "Elder brother Schneizel moved her corpse away under the orders of his Excellency." Wasn't that the brother who was in charge of the Air ship with Euphie on it? If it was its possible Euphie will also be back in some capacity explaining there presence in the ending. If thats true then my assumption would be Cornelia is off looking after her sister.

Also I can confirm Eclipse used Kallen and Karen in episode 4. I can also say that both of those times by ear thats what it sounds like the people addressing her are saying. Its somewhat possible both are correct at different times like Buffalobiian was eluding too.


What I did not understand (lack of sleep) was why the Chinese guy killed his 'superior' and then helped the Black Knights.

This is simple. He killed his superior because he was following the Black Knights blindly and he felt he betrayed China he seemed crazy talking about stuff like how Zero will bring him happyness. He then didn't kill the Black Knights in order to see if they would be useful to him in the future. If they passed the test he was going to use them for now until he felt they no longer had any use to him and his ambitions.
In other words his superior was being used by the Black Knight in order to be rewarded on a personal level. While he was using the Black Knights to benefit himself and China until they had no more use.

[shinta|hikari]

Am I the only one thinking that the chinese guy is a bit overpowered? He has both brains and brawn, much like Lelouch and Suzaku packed into one. I just hope he is not AS good on both accounts.

Why does no one give notice to C.C.'s gun scene? That was so cute and moe in a very unfamiliar, violent and strange way.

EDIT: A Euphie resurrection would make me throw up, almost as much as Suzaku not dying.

[Chiodos]

A theroy could be that Cornelia would be ressuructed as ....uuh...what was the name of the dude that made C.C "sacrifices" herself at the end of Season 1?
The lame theory could be that Cornela will be...like that.. and with an army of the same.

@shinta: I also did like the gun scene with C.C. Just fawking adorible in a wierd, wierd way. Kudos to that!

[David75]

A theroy could be that Cornelia would be ressuructed as ....uuh...what was the name of the dude that made C.C "sacrifices" herself at the end of Season 1?
The lame theory could be that Cornela will be...like that.. and with an army of the same.

@shinta: I also did like the gun scene with C.C. Just fawking adorible in a wierd, wierd way. Kudos to that!
I don't know why, but for some reason I could see Cornelia suffering from mental failure.

For some reason she is extremely harsh in battle, going full out instead of thinking first, almost as she didn't even fear dying. Some kind of suicidial behaviour.
Then there's an idea of justice in her. She may have chosen a side, but she seems to have principles, strong at that.

If she learnt Lelouch is Zero and he has a Geass that transformed Euphemia in a killing monster, she may have had a hard time beleiving it and wasn't able to overcome it.

Or she's just another piece in the emperor's game. he hides this part of the game, with great surprise in mind.

Now that I think about it, anyone would care to explain why Viletta had lost her memories in S1, was it even explained? I don't remember seeing something explaining why she suddenly was amnesic.
Do you think she was part of the group Suzaku just entered? That would make sense, one out, one in. Would the emperor be the one to demote her?

[DDBen]

Now that I think about it, anyone would care to explain why Viletta had lost her memories in S1, was it even explained? I don't remember seeing something explaining why she suddenly was amnesic.
Do you think she was part of the group Suzaku just entered? That would make sense, one out, one in. Would the emperor be the one to demote her?

Shirley shot her and she was left for dead at the docks when Ougi found her there. The memory loss just seems to have been a result of the trauma from that.

[Yukimura]

Also Villietta wasn't part of the Knight of Rounds, she was subordinate to Jeremiah (Orange-kun) in the Purists division. Her goal was to get a noble title that would be passed down to her offspring instead of just being a Knight which only applied to her.

[Uchiha Barles]

I just watched all of season 1 over the span of a week, and caught up to this last episode in season 2 just now. Didn't have to wait for resolutions to ANY of the cliffhangers...Do you understand the bliss? can you?

For anyone who's played fft, do you notice how Lelouche's situation is much like Ramza, but he has Delita's persona, and Suzaku's situation is much like Delita's, but he has Ramza's persona? Ever tried to figure out what would happen if their pathes actually conflicted? I guess we'll get to see xD.


I don't know why, but for some reason I could see Cornelia suffering from mental failure.

For some reason she is extremely harsh in battle, going full out instead of thinking first, almost as she didn't even fear dying. Some kind of suicidial behaviour.
Then there's an idea of justice in her. She may have chosen a side, but she seems to have principles, strong at that.

If she learnt Lelouch is Zero and he has a Geass that transformed Euphemia in a killing monster, she may have had a hard time beleiving it and wasn't able to overcome it.

Or she's just another piece in the emperor's game. he hides this part of the game, with great surprise in mind.

Now that I think about it, anyone would care to explain why Viletta had lost her memories in S1, was it even explained? I don't remember seeing something explaining why she suddenly was amnesic.
Do you think she was part of the group Suzaku just entered? That would make sense, one out, one in. Would the emperor be the one to demote her?

Viletta was a member of the Purists along with Orange-kun, not a member of the 12 knights, which I believe is new to this season, can't remember it being mentioned in season 1. Also, Viletta got shot, and it's not unreasonable to suspect she suffered amnesia from trauma to the head when she fell to the floor. I doubt Lelouche used geass on her, so I can't think of another explanation.

[David75]

thanks for the clarification. I definately have troubles with my mempry (no Geass involved to my knowledge :p)

I'll wait silently for the next release.

[Ryllharu]

Ah...you're still fun to debate with.


Cornelia coming back wasn't something I was considering but its pretty clear she was only injured at the end of season 1 and not dead so its more then likely going to happen. Now after Lelouch used his Geass on her she said "Elder brother Schneizel moved her corpse away under the orders of his Excellency." Wasn't that the brother who was in charge of the Air ship with Euphie on it? If it was its possible Euphie will also be back in some capacity explaining there presence in the ending. If thats true then my assumption would be Cornelia is off looking after her sister.
....
This is simple. He killed his superior because he was following the Black Knights blindly and he felt he betrayed China he seemed crazy talking about stuff like how Zero will bring him happyness. He then didn't kill the Black Knights in order to see if they would be useful to him in the future. If they passed the test he was going to use them for now until he felt they no longer had any use to him and his ambitions.
In other words his superior was being used by the Black Knight in order to be rewarded on a personal level. While he was using the Black Knights to benefit himself and China until they had no more use.
Paragraph 1:
Suzaku watched her die, he was right beside her the entire time. I know this is a Sunrise series (Gundam, Mai Hime/Otome) so there is the high possibility of people coming back, but I'd say it's fairly safe to say Euphie is dead. I can't see any purpose in bringing her back. Now...a nasty plan by Lelouch to deter and confuse the hell out of Suzaku, maybe, but that would only be a look-alike.

I'd say it's more likely Cornelia was initially away recuperating/hiding her injuries, and has now either switched to a slow, drawn out plot of revenge, or in not killing Zero herself to avenge Euphie, is now fairly broken.

There is also the third possibility. Who have we not seen since the series started? Nunnally. Swap one sheltered, frail sister (half-sister this time) for another. We know V.V. has her, and he's most likely allied with the Emperor. That's one way to calm a grief-stricken, hysterical daughter. Tell her that her long lost little sister, daughter of her greatest idol, wasn't dead after all.


Paragraph 2:
I think the Chinese guy's motives are more simple than that. Pure ambition. China seems to still be filled with the Han dynasty, utter bullshit middle management where the government is entirely run by bureaucrats with no actual prowess in anything. The Black Knights were just the perfect opportunity for him to strike. He mentioned that he wanted to (horrible paraphrasing): trim the dead weight and inefficiency out by killing the official. Now he has all the power that he can use effectively, instead of it being frivolously wasted.

[DDBen]

Viletta was a member of the Purists along with Orange-kun, not a member of the 12 knights, which I believe is new to this season, can't remember it being mentioned in season 1. Also, Viletta got shot, and it's not unreasonable to suspect she suffered amnesia from trauma to the head when she fell to the floor. I doubt Lelouche used geass on her, so I can't think of another explanation.

I'm positive Lelouch didn't use his Geass on her for that for any number of reasons. First he didn't know who happened to see his face or who Shirley shot even after he found out. Ougi found her at the scene on his own with amnesia the next morning so there was ZERO time for him to use his Geass. Finally Lelouch used his Geass on her in episode 1 and can't use it on the same person twice.


Ah...you're still fun to debate with.
I welcome debate and discussion




Paragraph 1:
Suzaku watched her die, he was right beside her the entire time. I know this is a Sunrise series (Gundam, Mai Hime/Otome) so there is the high possibility of people coming back, but I'd say it's fairly safe to say Euphie is dead. I can't see any purpose in bringing her back. Now...a nasty plan by Lelouch to deter and confuse the hell out of Suzaku, maybe, but that would only be a look-alike.


Agreed of course we also watched orange-kun drop dead in front of a truck and they brought him back to life.



I'd say it's more likely Cornelia was initially away recuperating/hiding her injuries, and has now either switched to a slow, drawn out plot of revenge, or in not killing Zero herself to avenge Euphie, is now fairly broken.


As far as Cornelia would know Zero was already dead thats the public side of things and I imagine only Suzaku and the Emperor know the full truth of what happened possibly V.V. as well.



There is also the third possibility. Who have we not seen since the series started? Nunnally. Swap one sheltered, frail sister (half-sister this time) for another. We know V.V. has her, and he's most likely allied with the Emperor. That's one way to calm a grief-stricken, hysterical daughter. Tell her that her long lost little sister, daughter of her greatest idol, wasn't dead after all.


Possible and would certainly explain where Nunnally has been. The interesting question is if Cornelia knows who Zero really is. I mean he talked to her before using the Geass but its a question of how much she remembers Viletta at least had a foggy idea of what Zero looked like and being Cornelia knew him from her past she might have a clue who he really is.

I think its important to note how major all those shown in the ending are likely to be to this season. It seems very odd that Euphie is the only one that is presumeably dead at this point. Her inclusion makes me believe she will be a major part of this season as well. It just seems out of place enough that it could have meaning. I don't really support bringing her back her death was a major plot point in season one it just seems like something we should be ready for,



Paragraph 2:
I think the Chinese guy's motives are more simple than that. Pure ambition. China seems to still be filled with the Han dynasty, utter bullshit middle management where the government is entirely run by bureaucrats with no actual prowess in anything. The Black Knights were just the perfect opportunity for him to strike. He mentioned that he wanted to (horrible paraphrasing): trim the dead weight and inefficiency out by killing the official. Now he has all the power that he can use effectively, instead of it being frivolously wasted.

I can't say I know a lot about Chinese politics so I'll take your word for that one. I do think that the reason he felt the guy was such dead weight is the way he was talking about Zero being the bringer of happyness almost to the point it seemed like he was in love with Zero on a more personal level. He definitely took the opening he was given and ran with it but I don't think he would have made a move if he didn't feel that he could so easily explain his choice to those above him.

[Ryllharu]

Agreed of course we also watched orange-kun drop dead in front of a truck and they brought him back to life.

It was pretty obvious Orange-kun wasn't dead at that point. He had limped into the city pretty well on his own. Granted, he was in really bad shape and probably borderline braindead from all the radiation Kallen pumped him and his Knightmare with. He would have died, but he wasn't shot in the chest the way Euphie was. Whatever they did to him, which was extensive modifications, was enough to compensate.



As far as Cornelia would know Zero was already dead thats the public side of things and I imagine only Suzaku and the Emperor know the full truth of what happened possibly V.V. as well.

Possible and would certainly explain where Nunnally has been. The interesting question is if Cornelia knows who Zero really is. I mean he talked to her before using the Geass but its a question of how much she remembers Viletta at least had a foggy idea of what Zero looked like and being Cornelia knew him from her past she might have a clue who he really is.
The reason Viletta remembered him was because she saw him for a few seconds through the display screens on her Sutherland before he lured her out of it. But you are right about Cornelia. She spoke to Lelouch with his helmet off for a long time, so it's very possible she knows who he is. Lelouch's Geass has shown that those who get hit with it forget what happened during his commands, but they usually don't have any memory gaps unless that was part of the order, as with Shirley.




I think its important to note how major all those shown in the ending are likely to be to this season. It seems very odd that Euphie is the only one that is presumeably dead at this point. Her inclusion makes me believe she will be a major part of this season as well. It just seems out of place enough that it could have meaning. I don't really support bringing her back her death was a major plot point in season one it just seems like something we should be ready for,

I'd say Euphie's legacy will play an important role, but I simply don't see her coming back from the dead. I'm still hoping that Lelouch gets pissed at Suzaku enough to really find a look-alike to torture him. I haven't seen that in anime (that I have watched) for a while, and I know Sunrise has used the plot device a few times in the past.



I can't say I know a lot about Chinese politics so I'll take your word for that one. I agree with the rest of what you said here and below to a point, and want to clarify a little. The "middleman" politics was more prevalent in the Han, many of the succeeding dynasties, and in Communist China to a point. I don't know how much it is today, but Code Geass seems to be using a model for the Chinese Federation that's more like the pre-Communist Chinese dynasties. Japan had a lot of these issues itself, with the Heian period and a few before the Meiji Era that weren't early Tokugawa.

It's fascinating stuff, especially coming from someone who's country doesn't have nearly the rich histories that the Asian nations do. Only ~300 years...I don't know as much as I would like to know though.

[KrayZ33]

Why does no one give notice to C.C.'s gun scene? That was so cute and moe in a very unfamiliar, violent and strange way.


#

really, we need more C.C.... the made her wear those nice clothes but we rarely see her! Need some Lelouch-C.C. romance, NOW!

[DDBen]

It was pretty obvious Orange-kun wasn't dead at that point. He had limped into the city pretty well on his own. Granted, he was in really bad shape and probably borderline braindead from all the radiation Kallen pumped him and his Knightmare with. He would have died, but he wasn't shot in the chest the way Euphie was. Whatever they did to him, which was extensive modifications, was enough to compensate.

Euphie died on a state of the art warship that was fresh off the assembly line and V.V, as well as the second Prince were on it if she has any chance of coming back I can't think of a better place to have her. They were keeping her on normal life support on the ship then she flat-lined but she was still in argueably better shape at that point then Orange-kun.



The reason Viletta remembered him was because she saw him for a few seconds through the display screens on her Sutherland before he lured her out of it. But you are right about Cornelia. She spoke to Lelouch with his helmet off for a long time, so it's very possible she knows who he is. Lelouch's Geass has shown that those who get hit with it forget what happened during his commands, but they usually don't have any memory gaps unless that was part of the order, as with Shirley.


So we agree on this point. (just so you don't get upset I cut out part of your quote)



I'd say Euphie's legacy will play an important role, but I simply don't see her coming back from the dead. I'm still hoping that Lelouch gets pissed at Suzaku enough to really find a look-alike to torture him. I haven't seen that in anime (that I have watched) for a while, and I know Sunrise has used the plot device a few times in the past.


I don't see Lelouch doing anything like this. Lelouch really did love Euphie and was ready to agree to what she wanted to try if not for his Geass acting on its own. That and he doesn't hate Suzaku nor does he insist that Suzaku agree's with him or he would just use his Geass to make that happen. Fact is he considered at least for all of last season that Suzaku was a friend he wanted to convince his way was right through normal means. I do think that will change after he handed him over to the Emperor like that but I don't see him willing to disgrace Euphie like that.



I agree with the rest of what you said here and below to a point, and want to clarify a little. The "middleman" politics was more prevalent in the Han, many of the succeeding dynasties, and in Communist China to a point. I don't know how much it is today, but Code Geass seems to be using a model for the Chinese Federation that's more like the pre-Communist Chinese dynasties. Japan had a lot of these issues itself, with the Heian period and a few before the Meiji Era that weren't early Tokugawa.

It's fascinating stuff, especially coming from someone who's country doesn't have nearly the rich histories that the Asian nations do. Only ~300 years...I don't know as much as I would like to know though.

Well generally Code Geass and how they handle what was done to "Japan" is a reflection of what Japan did to Korea when they occupied it in the past. So I wouldn't be surprized if they are making China reflect how it was at that time. I don't have any exact dates and in general most of that information about how it reflects how japan treated Korea I learned listening to a review of Code Geass on the Anime pulse Podcast or maybe anime nation I'm not completely positive which. Still all of the history stuff and how they work it in is always interesting if you find any more out I'd be interested in hearing it.

[Buffalobiian]

Euphie died on a state of the art warship that was fresh off the assembly line and V.V, as well as the second Prince were on it if she has any chance of coming back I can't think of a better place to have her. They were keeping her on normal life support on the ship then she flat-lined but she was still in argueably better shape at that point then Orange-kun.

Euphie died with Suzaku by her side, which leads me to believe that he wouldn't believe she's dead unless she is well and truly dead, whereas no one actually witnessed Orange-kun's.

[Ryllharu]

(just so you don't get upset I cut out part of your quote)I appreciate it, hah.

I don't see Lelouch doing anything like this. Lelouch really did love Euphie and was ready to agree to what she wanted to try if not for his Geass acting on its own. That and he doesn't hate Suzaku nor does he insist that Suzaku agree's with him or he would just use his Geass to make that happen. Fact is he considered at least for all of last season that Suzaku was a friend he wanted to convince his way was right through normal means. I do think that will change after he handed him over to the Emperor like that but I don't see him willing to disgrace Euphie like that.I have to disagree. Lelouch already showed he was more than willing to use her in that fashion last season. He knew better than anyone that she purely believed all that (even though calling her naive earlier). But he knew that he couldn't let the opportunity pass by and slandered her for eternity as a Butcher of the Japanese people. Worse than Clovis ever was, worse than even our little replacement Governor-General in the first eps of R2. Britannia might like to claim she was murdered by Zero and place her as a martyr, but everyone that was there that day, and everyone who got Diethard's broadcast, and rebroadcasts, sees her as the greatest liar Britannia has ever known.

Lelouch has done plenty to her already, it can't get that much worse. If he can use her death, her image, her legacy, anything against Suzaku, I bet he'll do it. I doubt we'll see a Meer Campbell, but I would by no means put it past Lelouch this season.

All the while pretending he still remembers nothing.

[Shinji Ikari]

I hope he f***s up Suzaku's mind even more. All for the sake in making Suzaku show his true colours of evil.

I have to second Ryllharu. Not willing to disgrace? Lelouch is and has always been a "the end justifies the means" type of man. If he can avoid a situation like disgracing or hurting a friend, he will, but if pain is the only path, he wouldn't mind taking that path because his goal is that much bigger.

And if they do decide to bring Euphie back from the grave I hope they spit on her and bury her the same ep as she reapears. NOTHING may stand in the way of Lelouch's and Karen's ambition.

[DDBen]

I have to disagree. Lelouch already showed he was more than willing to use her in that fashion last season. He knew better than anyone that she purely believed all that (even though calling her naive earlier). But he knew that he couldn't let the opportunity pass by and slandered her for eternity as a Butcher of the Japanese people. Worse than Clovis ever was, worse than even our little replacement Governor-General in the first eps of R2. Britannia might like to claim she was murdered by Zero and place her as a martyr, but everyone that was there that day, and everyone who got Diethard's broadcast, and rebroadcasts, sees her as the greatest liar Britannia has ever known.

Lelouch has done plenty to her already, it can't get that much worse. If he can use her death, her image, her legacy, anything against Suzaku, I bet he'll do it. I doubt we'll see a Meer Campbell, but I would by no means put it past Lelouch this season.

All the while pretending he still remembers nothing.

That was making the best of a bad situation. He simply made the only choice he could had she lived as far as he knew she would have continued following the order he gave her by mistake. Also she grabbed his gun and he had no way of stopping her before she started killing the Japanese its not like he planned it. In his own mind he was saving her by killing her and then making her death have some meaning with the way he used it, Thats completely different then a malicious plan to actively use her and do harm with her name.

There is no question he regretted what happened in that situation and there is zero reason to believe he would actively do something to make her suffer more or someone suffer in her name. With Shirley she knew who he was and shot him and he tried to do what was best for her in the end. With Suzaku even after finding out he was the pilot of the Lancelot he still choose to use his Geass to make his friend live instead of to control him. At no point has he attempted to betray a friend or use them against each other for anything he even went out of his way to protect the school and his friends when causing a all out war in Tokyo. So why on earth would he make a fake of his first love and the one family member he actually cared about in order to actively hurt his best friend? They have betrayed each other sure but Lelouch would still welcome Suzaku if he choose to come to his side and join his cause on his own.

[shinta|hikari]

While I doubt that Lelouch would hesitate using the image of someone already dead, I am not sure if he is cruel enough to subject Suzaku to such torture, unless it is absolutely necessary, and if Suzaku turns to be someone who deserves it.

Well, if Suzaku does "try" to join Lelouch's side, we must not forget that it was Suzaku that caused Nunally to get kidnapped, much like how it was Lelouch that killed Euphie. I doubt that Lelouch will welcome Suzaku this time around.

[Eros935]

Yea, I really hope Lelouch and Suzaku don't end up joining forces, its just alot more fun to watch that way.

@Shinta|hikari
I don't know that you can say that can you? About Nunally being kidnapped I mean, it was VV that kidnapped her and we don't really know much about the connection between VV and Suzaku but I understand what your saying, he sure didn't help rescue her thats for sure.

And on a completely seperate note...

Did anyone see Rollo's last name in those death reports? it made me laugh "Haliburton"

[Chiodos]

I don't even think Suzaku knew, or belived for that matter, that Nunnaly was kidnapped. It seemed he was more focused on..Lelouch's "betrayal".

Edit: -Post Below-

Oh, I thought you totally meant something else. My mistakes..

[shinta|hikari]

All I meant was that the fact that Suzaku stopped Lelouch at that point (end of s1) prevented him from rescuing Nunally, resulting in her "disappearance" (which Lelouch currently interprets to be a kidnapping).

[Lucifus]

Released by [WeWin]


Code Geass R2: Episode 05 (http://tracker.anirena.com/download.php?id=6522)


Edit: I'd recommend you all wait, these subs are horrendous.

The first five minutes are actually subs, then I can't tell if they did a poor job, or just threw random words together to make it look like its subbed.

Better Version: Code Geass R2: Episode 05 (http://www.mininova.org/get/1381600)

[Uchiha Barles]

I thought it was golden week in Japan right now, I had been completely expecting no candy this week :( . This is good news :D

edit: Going to wait for GG's release though, to keep my list looking pretty.

[David75]

I hope a HD version will come soon, strange how you get spoiled quickly with crystal clear images....
I can spend more on HardDrive and wait for HighDefinition versions. Besides a TB from samsung really gets cheaper by the day...

[Chihiro]Code Geass Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 05 [h264][6D891AC7] mkv 720p (mininova link) (http://www.mininova.org/get/1381600)

[oyabun]

Oh man.. wewin subs sucks. Love the part where there's lot of fanservice. Especially for C2 and Kallen

[David75]

Oh man.. wewin subs sucks. Love the part where there's lot of fanservice. Especially for C2 and Kallen
The name of the group suggest they only aim at speed ;) Yellow subs are hard to swallow...

I only started to dl the 720p I linked as I was editing last post. I wonder if they'll be any good.

Edit: sub quality ok except for minor typing mistakes. Sometimes blurry encode yet clearer than the SD version earlier.

Nice turn of events will be my only comment as of yet.

[shinta|hikari]

What about "Suzaku is a fucking asshole."? That works for me.

[KrayZ33]

I'll wait for GG's they are my favorites...
but i can hardly wait after I read that there is alot of C.C. fanservices :/

need ^^

[David75]

I'll wait for GG's they are my favorites...
but i can hardly wait after I read that there is alot of C.C. fanservices :/

need ^^

One word:

Multi :D

[Ryllharu]

gg's out.

[gg] Code Geass R2 - Eps 05 (http://ggkthx.org/Torrents/%5Bgg%5D_Code_Geass_R2_-_05_%5B68690EC6%5D.mkv.torrent)

[Yukimura]

Wow, the fanservice level was over 9000. Chachama-C.C. for the win. <3 18:56

One thing that was a bit lame about the high quantity fanservice was that it pushed a lot of potential plot fleshing out aside. the abruptness of the shift from 19:59 to 20:00 could have been explained a lot better.


And lol at yet another cliffhanger ending. Suzaku is a huge douche for doing that.

[Ryllharu]

At least Lelouch was still smart enough to turn away while he talked. He was smart enough not to trust himself being able to hide his reaction.

So Nunnally has been reinstated as a princess. I've got to hand it to Suzaku though. If there was any way to break Lelouch's lying mask, that was it. Lelouch is going to have to hurt her so badly in order to continue pretending he hasn't remembered anything. I wonder if Nunnally will take it badly. That therefore, makes Suzaku a huge asshole. Torturing Nunnally, who's been isolated from him for so long, and will have to accept somehow that Lelouch has been brainwashed and has no idea who she is.

I suspect that Suzaku will be looking for any sort of recognition in Lelouch's voice.

C.C. for all her wisdom, is kind of stupid at times. The look of sadness on her face at the end in the car was priceless.

I assume they went for all the ecchi now instead of waiting for episode 22 like last time so that the violence can take up all the remaining episodes. This might be some of the last comedy relief we get at the school.

Other than silencing Viletta for the time being, I wonder what they are actually going to do with her.

[Darknodin]

ok... you guys are funny. Lelouch is dooing something just as bad to Rollo. I personally applaud Suzaku (or more likely the Emperor) for such a tactic. take the one weakness of your enemy and exploit it to hell! its genius,

Lelouch can either lie to Nunnaly or expose himself
as Zero, he's gonna have to start a war against his sister, the reason he was fighting in the first place!

I'm actually starting to like Suzaku (although he is still an ideologist... he wants to become the most powerful person after the emperor... why? to free Japan! he should really be more honest with himself)

[Ryllharu]

Yeah, but we like Lelouch. Well...most of us do anyway. He's the protagonist and an anti-hero. He said from the start he'd do awful things in order to secure a safe place for Nunnally. Suzaku on the other hand, started out as this idealist zealot force of Justice, Gundam style. A superior machine, a great pilot, super soldier swearing to change it all from the inside, by converting enemies (like Kallen) and harming no innocents. He still claims to be doing all this, but he's turned out just as bad as Lelouch.

We've been over that argument a thousand times. One is a self-proclaimed monster, and the other is a hypocrite "saint." Take your pick.

And not too many people like Rollo anyway. It sucks that he's going to have to be put in the crossfire since his life basically sucked, but hey...the Emperor made him this way.

Good call on the Nunnally versus Lelouch though. I didn't think of that.

[Everon]

Its been confirmed. Suzuku is a bastard, for putting Nunully through this.

I don't understand how Suzuku can continue believing he's making a difference. Area 11 is still a complete shithole and all he's doing is helping Britannia conquer more.

(I'm guessing Rolo's weakness is that he can't use geass against people who close their eyes.)

[TheBladeChild]

Wow the fanservice in this episode was ridiculous:

C.C. in a giant bucket of tomatoes
Kallen in the mascot suit(I love the camera angle lol)

Anyway, Im really surprised to see that its Suzaku behind most of the planning to counter Zero. It seems he does have some command ability. Anyway I gotta admit bringing in Nunally as the govenor general was a brilliant move on Suzaku's part.

As for what Ryll said, ill take Lelouche anyday at least hes not a Hypocrite.

[Buffalobiian]

[Eclipse]_Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 05 - Xvid (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2005%20(XviD)%20%5bA6D1CD59%5d.avi.torrent)
[Eclipse]_Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 05 720p -h.264 (http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/%5bEclipse%5d%20Code%20Geass%20-%20Lelouch%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20R2%20-%2005%20(1280x720%20h264)%20%5bF2EF31D3%5d.mkv.tor rent)

[rockmanj]

I also think that was a smart move by Suzaku (if it is indeed his plan). I can't even really be mad about that. And yea, the fanservice was a bit much. I'm not sure why Kallen had to be dressed so skimpily (not that I'm complaining that much). And knowing that some of the Black Knights are aware that they're pawns...hmm; a bit interesting.

[Shinji Ikari]

You are wrong Ryll. Because Suzaku has never been the good guy. Why does it seem like everyone thinks he has been in the right, when he in fact NEVER has been in the right. Is it because he spouts out hypocrizy everywhere he goes? Spouting out idealist crap that makes him to blind to even see what he himself is doing wrong. "Oh, I want to save this country, but until I have the POWER to do tha on MY OWN, I will just kill EVERYONE who stands in my way".

Suzaku has been like this from ep 1. Nothing has changed in reality, it's just that now he is sinking lower in his methods for achieving his own self-righteous bullshit that no one except him and some stupid Britannian students believe in.

It is a very simple model, Britannia is in the wrong, they invaded a defenseless country without reason other than their own greed. Suzaku is a part of that greed, hence, he is in the wrong.

Lelouch might at first look like a bad guy because he talks of himself like a demon more or less. Is he a demon 'cause he wants justification and truth about his mothers death? Is he a demon because he wants peace? Is he a demon because he wants his sister to be able to live in a world where power shapes the world (survival of the fittest)? And is he a demon because he wants to liberate a country who has been oblitirated and brought to it's knees?

Lelouch has always been in the right and Suzaku always in the wrong. The only thing that seems to be confusing people is that Suzaku is/was "cute" and Lelouch "seems" to be a bad guy.

And this disgusting part about using Nunally like that is one of the most crappy things I've seen from any of these guys.

[RyougaZell]

I also think that was a smart move by Suzaku (if it is indeed his plan). I can't even really be mad about that. And yea, the fanservice was a bit much. I'm not sure why Kallen had to be dressed so skimpily (not that I'm complaining that much). And knowing that some of the Black Knights are aware that they're pawns...hmm; a bit interesting.

Have you ever been inside of one of those suits?
Its freaking hot I tell you!!!

Nice episode. Arthur rulez because he always bites Suzaku. Too bad he didn't ruin that feather pen.

Suzaku... he definitely needs to die...

Will these blackmail end with Viletta switching sides for Ogi?

Chachamaru-CC rocked....

[Uchiha Barles]

You know, neither of these guys are really good guys. They have the same goal, but the means to those goals are conflicting. Suzaku is certainly not worse than Lelouche is. He's about the same. Lelouche doesn't really seem to care about Japan. What he cares about are, his sister, and his vengence (or 'justice' if you choose to see it that way). He's liberating Japan as a side effect of bringing down an oppresive power for the sake of his sister, not Japan's. Also, He can't do it Suzaku's way, because his revenge insists that he destroys Brittania. The Japanese are are chess pieces, exactly as one of the characters in the anime mentioned. Also, remember the end of last season? When he left the battle because he heard Nunnaly was caught? The greater good would've been to stay there and ensure the victory of Black Knights, but no. He went after his sister, because without her, nothing else matters. He left his chess pieces to burn, and left Japan to continue under oppressive rule, all for his sister.

Yeah, Suzaku killed his father for "peace", kills whoever chooses to stand in his way, yadda yadda. I'm not mentioning him because no one seems to be having issues seeing through his hypocritical self-righteousness. The trouble seems to be in seeing Lelouche for his hypocrisy. At least, Suzaku's care for the Japanese is genuine. If he were to succeed, he'd be fit to rule. If Lelouche were to succeed, he would not be fit to rule. In fact, I'm convinced Lelouche himself knows this.

Edit to next post: I love both these assholes, whachoo trying to say?

[Inazuma]

Well there is a thing that everyone misses I think.
The bad guy is the Emperor, period.

Suzaku is laying bricks in hell with cement mixed from innocents' blood thinking that in the long run it'll help. " Sacrifices are to be made. " he thinks.
Lelouch has a goal, and for him to reach it, he needs to manipulate and make other people die. Sacrifices again ...

They are both, killing, and willing to kill for their cause.
They are both good and evil, yet fighting each other. And this is why CG is a such a great show. No stereotypical bullshit.

The goal they both want to reach is just respectable and fairly honest.
But the methods they use are totally despecicable.

So here we are, with a demon and a devil, fighting against each other to win the right to fight the king of the nine hells. With sacrificial lambs trapped in the crossfire. And Code Geass shines for one simple thing.

The two Self-centered bastards are still likable, yet no sane person can like both.

A twisted Bravo is what thiss show deserves with that fifth ep making it clear.

[Shinji Ikari]

There is no hypocrisy in Lelouch's way of life. "a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess." Cut from dictionary just to make it clear. Lelouch is honest about what he does, everyone with half a brain knows what he's about and why.

Lelouch probably wouldn't want to rule a country since he knows that power is not the way to rule in a peaceful country, he shows this in the way he despises the emperor who is just the kind of ruler that you think Lelouch would be.

Their goal doesn't justify wether or not the cause is right. Lelouch is right because of the simple reason that he is on the right countries side. And for that matter, the goals of their paths are quite different to Japan as an independent country. If Suzaku would gain control over Japan, Japan would at best look something like Wales, where as we know they do have a certain amount of independent rulership, but where by law that rulership could be rewoked at any time. The difference is that that would never happen in the real world, but in this fictional world it is more than likely that Brittania would use that power to overthrow Japan once it would have once again under the rule of Suzaku regained it's freedom. A puppet-nation, doing the world police a favour whenever it is needed.

Lelouch's goal would result in a truly free Japan independent of Brittania, EU and China. And if he achieved his goal, he would probably elect a leader other than himself.

[Uchiha Barles]

There is no hypocrisy in Lelouch's way of life. "a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess." Cut from dictionary just to make it clear. Lelouch is honest about what he does, everyone with half a brain knows what he's about and why.

Lelouch probably wouldn't want to rule a country since he knows that power is not the way to rule in a peaceful country, he shows this in the way he despises the emperor who is just the kind of ruler that you think Lelouch would be.

Their goal doesn't justify wether or not the cause is right. Lelouch is right because of the simple reason that he is on the right countries side. And for that matter, the goals of their paths are quite different to Japan as an independent country. If Suzaku would gain control over Japan, Japan would at best look something like Wales, where as we know they do have a certain amount of independent rulership, but where by law that rulership could be rewoked at any time. The difference is that that would never happen in the real world, but in this fictional world it is more than likely that Brittania would use that power to overthrow Japan once it would have once again under the rule of Suzaku regained it's freedom. A puppet-nation, doing the world police a favour whenever it is needed.

Lelouch's goal would result in a truly free Japan independent of Brittania, EU and China. And if he achieved his goal, he would probably elect a leader other than himself.

If you say that Lelouche is not a hypocrite, then the same can be said of Suzaku. I said Lelouche is a hypocrite because he uses the pretense of liberating the Japanese to achieve his personal ends. I say Suzaku is a hypocrite because while he seeks just rule for Japan, he wants to do it without Bloodshed, but shed's blood anyway. You say Lelouche is not a hypocrite because Lelouche is honest about being a monster (note, only to himself and those who've already figured it out). In that case, I say that Suzaku is not a hypocrite, because in his mind, if there was no rebellion against Brittania, he wouldn't have to fight them, and he could go about changing things from the inside, with minimal bloodshed. The rebellion is forcing his hand. The rebellion causes bloodshed, is he supposed to let it happen? No one who dislikes bloodshed would. However, in stopping bloodshed, one must shed blood. That's quite just. To stop a murderer who won't stop killing, you kill him. This is not hypocrisy anymore than Lelouche displays, according to the way you choose to view things.

Also, what determines right and wrong? Lelouche is right for choosing the side of the country that was wrong? So the person who decides to liberate Japan using roundabout methods all in an effort to reach the same goal, having shed much less blood, is wrong? How can one praise Lelouche for all his deviancy in tactics, but not praise Suzaku for his deviancy in strategy?

[Y]

Kururugi Suzaku murdered his own father at the age of ten because he supported rebelling against an evil empire, then joined said evil empire to serve it without question - in effect, he decided that because his real father had failed at defending their country, he deserved to die, and turned Britannia into his father figure. He views the Britannian empire and its leadership as his personal messiahs. He has something akin to a way more fucked up version of Stockholm Syndrome and it bothers me that people in this show act like Suzaku is a reasonable part of the loyal opposition. He's a fucking batty loon.

[Carnage]

He's a fucking batty loon.


That or a huge dick.

[animus]

Mmmm scantily clad Viletta.

[DDBen]

Seriously how can people even argue over who's a hypocrite?

Suzaku I think everyone can agree he's a Hypocrite as is already well documented in this thread.

Lelouch on the other hand seriously what has he ever done thats Hypocritical? While his plans don't always go as he wishes them to go and he has made sacrifices along the way he has never at any point strayed from his goals.

The Goals of Lelouch
1. Find out who was responsible for his mothers death and get revenge.
2. Protect Nannaly(or however you spell it)
3. Make the world a place where Nannaly can live without worries.
4. Take out the Emperor

Freeing Japan isn't one of his goals however doing so will help with goals 3 and 4. When he left the battle in the end of season 1 he really didn't betray anyone. He left the vast majority of his forces to continue the assault and only took himself and C.C. to try and protect his 2nd and 3rd goal. Kallen following him was purely of her own will and nothing he ordered her to do.

So seriously when has Lelouch ever at any point done something hypocritical to his goals? Heck he even added additional things like refusing to use his Geass to change Suzaku's mind to show he was doing the right thing.


About the episode.

Great episode it tied up a lot of the things we have been discussed in the past few episode threads. Certainly a lot of possibilities I brought up were shown to be wrong in this episode which is fine with me.

LOTS of fanservice.

Apparently Shirley is all ready to confess to Lelouch all over again lets hope this time he doesn't kill her mom.

I really don't care for the Knight of three and whatever number if any the girl is they are just not great characters overall.

Confirmation no Geass for Suzaku was very welcome.

I was all ready to bring up that Suzaku mentioned that the pen Arthur took as "Arthur that's Euphie's" Stating it in the present tense instead of saying that was Euphie's in the past tense. Then we got to the end and he mentioned how he lost a girl and a friend and well its safe to say he fully believes Euphie is dead and that was just bad editing.

Overall another solid episode and Suzaku is definitely a bastard for allowing Nannaly to be used like that if not for the sake of Lelouch because he knows how much she trusts him.

[Death13a]

Here is my take of difference between Lelouch and Suzaku.
Lelouch know what he is doing is wrong, when he needs to sacrifice innocent lives.
Suzaku thinks he is doing is right because he was ordered to do so, when he is ordered to sacrifice innocent lives. Suzaku never thinks back on what he has done.
If Suzaku would govern Japan; anyone speaking their mind would be shot on site. He shot his father because he had different believes, what do you think will happen if someone doesn't share he believes. And Suzaku already is Emperor's personal puppet.

Sucks for Nanully. What can a blind, paralyzed leader can do for a country? She only there to get Lelouch mad and make mistake and then get killed. All decisions concerning Area 11 will be made by officials, Suzaku will probably lend a hand, and all Nanully will do is listen how Zero kills people.

[darkmetal505]

I hope after this incident Lelouch learns the benefit of exercising an hour everyday. His dashing good looks and wicked demeanor will only carry him so far.