That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: Tensei shitara Slime datta Ken

[DarthEnderX]

Sure, it's different.
The thing is, Rimuru is making an example, he could probably have solved the whole thing in a different way but he doesn't want to, nor does he actually care.
That's the deal about what makes him evil in this situation and morally liable.

"It can't be helped I guess" *proceeds to slaughter the army of 20k in seconds*

No, he is wrong, it can be helped.

Can it? The "thing" he want to solve is making his friends not dead anymore.

The only way he's currently aware of doing that is becoming a Demon Lord. And that requires 10k souls.

Could he solve the ATTACK in a different way? Yes. But he can't solve the dead friends any other way.

Every nation in this fantasy world seems to have a nuke, if they don't have one, then the whole political landscape makes no sense.
It shouldn't be possibly for any country without a nuke to exist.

...you know most countries in our world don't have nukes, right? Countries that continue to exist despite not having them?

I just don't want this to be viewed as an act of last resort or some bullshit like that, because it truely wasn't and isn't.

No, it's an act of justice. He is defending his people and retaliating for an earlier attack. Could he resolve this peacefully? Probably. But these attackers don't DESERVE a peaceful resolution.

RIMURU IS THE VICTIM!!!11

Yes?

[KrayZ33]

...you know most countries in our world don't have nukes, right? Countries that continue to exist despite not having them?

They are all connected to countries with nukes - have guarantees and all that kind of stuff, most of them even have nukes from other countries inside their territory..
Those that aren't are extremely unstable and basically not a country at all.
There is basically no country worth mentioning north of the equator that doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Our world is also completely different compared to theirs were open declarations of war are seemingly
very common, so it's a different political landscape alltogether.
In our world, it actually matters if America fights someone on the other side of the planet.
In their's, no one would give a fuck because it's "far away".

What I'm saying is that the attacking nation must have some sort of extremely powerful being on their side or as an ally, otherwise their existence (especially since it is as rich as it is) doesn't make sense.
It would have been steamrolled by another nation/demon lord hundreds of years ago since armies are, as we have seen here, obviously completely pointless.

No, it's an act of justice. He is defending his people and retaliating for an earlier attack. Could he resolve this peacefully? Probably. But these attackers don't DESERVE a peaceful resolution.

Bullshit.
They deserve a peaceful solution just like any other. These are soldiers and not the rule-makers. They are victims too when they are lead to certain death unknowingly and with lies.
If it's possible, you do it if you are a decent being, even if they are the aggressor. Pre-emptively killing everyone just so they don't hurt another being is not only dumb, it has absolutely nothing to do with justice.
Even if he wants to revive his minions, it's not the right thing to do. He's killing tens of thousands for a few hundred (if the number was even that high)
It's hardly different from taking revenge or using the "eye for an eye"-idiom. It's a degenerate way of thinking and he, as a modern human being, should know that. Would it be "fair" to turn around? No.
But that's not the issue I'm having with this.
It's not that I can't understand what he is doing, it's just that he lost all the moral high ground he had. There is no question about that.
Since you were talking about these things in this/other threads, I'd have thought you understood this.

Hell, even World of Warcraft gets it.
When Uther threw Arthas into the maw for all he had done to him and his people, he didn't serve justice. He got his revenge.

[Kraco]

Even if he wants to revive his minions, it's not the right thing to do. He's killing tens of thousands for a few hundred (if the number was even that high)
It's hardly different from taking revenge or using the "eye for an eye"-idiom. It's a degenerate way of thinking and he, as a modern human being, should know that. Would it be fair to turn around? No.
But that's not the issue I'm having with this.
It's not that I can't understand what he is doing, it's just that he lost all the moral high ground he had. There is no question about that.

Chancellor (or was it chairman?) Rimuru's first responsibility are the lives and prosperity of the citizens of the Jura Tempest Federation (Alliance?). The first responsibility of the king of Falmuth are the citizens of Falmuth. No matter the cost, Rimuru must place his own people before the people of other nations, and the same goes for the other rulers. In a war, let 10 or 100 enemy combatants die for one of your own? Every time. Rather than blame Rimuru for the deaths of Falmuth soldies, you should be asking is the king of Falmuth ready to bear their deaths on his conscience? But then again, I doubt that man has much in the way of conscience, so it could be a useless question.

Moral high ground isn't of much use for those lying dead on the streets. You know, under the anti-monster and anti-magic fields they were almost as helpless against the otherworlders and the knights as the Falmuth troops are now against Rimuru.

[KrayZ33]

Chancellor (or was it chairman?) Rimuru's first responsibility are the lives and prosperity of the citizens of the Jura Tempest Federation (Alliance?). The first responsibility of the king of Falmuth are the citizens of Falmuth. No matter the cost, Rimuru must place his own people before the people of other nations, and the same goes for the other rulers. In a war, let 10 or 100 enemy combatants die for one of your own? Every time. Rather than blame Rimuru for the deaths of Falmuth soldies, you should be asking is the king of Falmuth ready to bear their deaths on his conscience? But then again, I doubt that man has much in the way of conscience, so it could be a useless question.

Moral high ground isn't of much use for those lying dead on the streets. You know, under the anti-monster and anti-magic fields they were almost as helpless against the otherworlders and the knights as the Falmuth troops are now against Rimuru.

Big fat - nooooope.
He is acting on a fucking fairy-tale.
You are justifying the death of thousands of individuals for the 1% chance. It's really pathetic if not simply blurted out but said with conviction.
Statisticly speaking, he is killing 10.000 for 1 individual - if he is lucky. But that one individual is already dead. So basically, he is playing god. That has absolutely *nothing* to do with "justice".
The only life he has a right to judge and take away is his own. It's not his decision to make and take lives from and grant them to others.

He is *taking* lives, not protecting them. He has no obligation to anyone or anything to do that.
He could've stopped the army without the loss of lives like that. It's really not a "what if" or "maybe not", he so obviously could.

Everyone should know that his actions are understandable. Everyone should equally know that his actions are wrong and the fact that people don't, scares the shit out of me.

Rather than blame Rimuru for the deaths of Falmuth soldies, you should be asking is the king of Falmuth ready to bear their deaths on his conscience? But then again, I doubt that man has much in the way of conscience, so it could be a useless question.

I can blame multiple people at once. One wrong action doesn't mean the reaction to it is always right.
It has never even remotely been part of the discussion that the King of Falmuth is in the wrong. That is obvious.
What isn't so obvious, it seems, is that killing people (especially those that had no direct involvement in what has happened) instead of forgiving them is wrong. And that's pretty sad.

"Justice" my ass.
"obligation" my ass, he is supposed to protect his citizen, if there are ways to do so without killing and ending the existence of half a nation, it's the obvious way to do that instead. Doesn't matter if it's "fair" or not.

I don't think it's a coincidence that he turns into a "demon"-lord after all this.

[Kraco]

Big fat - nooooope.
He is acting on a fucking fairy-tale.
You are justifying the death of thousands of individuals for the 1% chance. It's really pathetic.

He is *taking* lives, not protecting them. He has no obligation to anyone or anything to do that.
He could've stopped the army without the loss of lives like that. It's really not a "what if" or "maybe not", he so obviously could.

Everyone should know that his actions are understandable. Everyone should equally know that his actions are wrong and the fact that people don't scares the shit out of me.

If he didn't need their lives for the resurrection magic, I imagine he would have only annihilated the leadership of the Falmuth army, possibly the knights of the strike force that killed his people, but let the thousands of grunts walk away. But then again, I guess that would have required that only a few people, and no named ones, would have died in the city. It would have made the whole first strike of the war look quite pitiful. If there was no resurrection option but Shion and all the others had still died, I reckon Rimuru could have still brought the hammer down on the Falmuth army quite heavily, to quench his wrath. However, he was shown to suppress his feelings in an earlier scene, so it's impossible to know for sure. He might have settled for killing the king, the commanders, the wizards, and so forth, while leaving most of the ordinary troops alive.

I don't blame you for finding war scary. That's a whole lot better than so many keyboard warriors all over the net glorifying it and acting like they would be real world Rambos if shit ever hit the fan.

[KrayZ33]

If he didn't need their lives for the resurrection magic, I imagine he would have only annihilated the leadership of the Falmuth army, possibly the knights of the strike force that killed his people, but let the thousands of grunts walk away. But then again, I guess that would have required that only a few people, and no named ones, would have died in the city. It would have made the whole first strike of the war look quite pitiful. If there was no resurrection option but Shion and all the others had still died, I reckon Rimuru could have still brought the hammer down on the Falmuth army quite heavily, to quench his wrath. However, he was shown to suppress his feelings in an earlier scene, so it's impossible to know for sure. He might have settled for killing the king, the commanders, the wizards, and so forth, while leaving most of the ordinary troops alive.

I don't blame you for finding war scary. That's a whole lot better than so many keyboard warriors all over the net glorifying it and acting like they would be real world Rambos if shit ever hit the fan.

That's what I'm saying.
I can completely and 100% understand his reasoning and why he does it.
He needs the "sacrifices".
It's just that this action is not the "good" choice. It's not what we teach our kids, if you want to call it that.
And I sure as hell hope that he knows this and won't turn into a big-fat hypocrite - that is all, because it's unbearable to watch someone who thinks he's rightous all the time, condemns others that aren't, and then acts like that himself when the first inconvenience shows up that is problematic to solve.

[DarthEnderX]

There is basically no country worth mentioning north of the equator that doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Wow...lot going on in THAT sentence...

They deserve a peaceful solution just like any other. These are soldiers and not the rule-makers. They are victims too when they are lead to certain death unknowingly and with lies.

Ah yes, the old "just following orders" Nazi soldier argument. Because soldiers have no obligation to ensure their orders are ethical before carrying them out.

It's just that this action is not the "good" choice.

It's not the "goodest" choice, but it damn sure isn't evil either.

Also just to make sure: Rimuru is the attacker here. He's not defending. Pls no "he's pro-actively defending their town" bs.

Complete horseshit. They are an army IN THE PROCESS OF INVADING. Their advance forces were STILL BESIEGING HIS CITY! He is ABSOLUTELY defending.

Murdering 20000 people or some gamble to resurrect his friends.

20000 people, on their way to murder his entire country. Fuck...them.

[KrayZ33]

Wow...lot going on in THAT sentence...

You think so?
Not really.
The countries that could actually field an army for war do all own nuclear weapons.

Ah yes, the old "just following orders" Nazi soldier argument. Because soldiers have no obligation to ensure their orders are ethical before carrying them out.

Not sure why you play the nazi card. These people probably fought monsters in the past and know that they are usually beast that kill and slay their fellow comrades, families and protegees, so it's easy to influence them.
And even Nazi soldiers don't deserve to die when the alternative is to let them live, so I don't get where you are comming from in the first place.
So much for your "justice"

[DarthEnderX]

And sure, let's go with "soldiers minding their own business" LOL.

Right? "Just sitting here...minding my own business...on my way to SLAUGHTER A CITY FULL OF PEOPLE. *whistles innocently*"

You think so?
Not really.

Well, the two main ones are:
A. Implying that half the planet doesn't matter in a discussion about global politics.
B. Trying to cherry pick your argument by excluding the entire half of the planet that makes your argument stupid nonsense.

Not sure why you play the nazi card.

Because they are literally the ones who tried to use your exact argument to justify their evil actions.

You're marching on a city to murder all of the civilian population there. Being told to by someone doesn't absolve you of that crime. And it DAMN sure doesn't prevent those you're trying to kill from killing you to stop you from doing it.

And even Nazi soldiers don't deserve to die when the alternative is to let them live

The ol' post-WW2 war crimes tribunals disagree with you.

Also, congratulations. I didn't think it was possible, but you've managed to dethrone MFauli as the worst person here by defending Nazis.

[KrayZ33]

The ol' post-WW2 war crimes tribunals disagree with you.

Also, congratulations. I didn't think it was possible, but you've managed to dethrone MFauli as the worst person here by defending Nazis.

Actually they don't.
Since you were talking about Nazi soldiers, I'm assuming you are talking about Wehrmacht soldiers.
Which is what these soldiers are in comparison.
And what do the WW2 tribunals even matter.
The death penalty is not a thing where I live, and it shouldn't be a thing anywhere.
It's unethical and pointless to boot.
But I guess it exists in Japan, which is where Rimuru came from.

Well, the two main ones are:
A. Implying that half the planet doesn't matter in a discussion about global politics.
B. Trying to cherry pick your argument by excluding the entire half of the planet that makes your argument stupid nonsense.

there is maybe like... one(?) nation south of the equator that holds something like "power" in the global market or globally in general.
The "south" doesn't own nuclear weapons, that's probably why it's the "shithole" it is and the rest of the world sees to it that it remains that way. Are you telling me these countries are stable, rich or even secure? Most of them don't even have a stable goverments. So it's not complete nonsense at all.

[DarthEnderX]

It's unethical and pointless to boot.

Guy-who-defends-Nazis opinions on ethics worth absolutely nothing.

there is maybe like... one(?) nation south of the equator that holds something like "power" in the global market or globally in general.

And how is that at all relevant to your stupid fucking statement of "A country without nukes can't exist in a world where there are nukes". Which you then had to walk back to "Has nukes, or is allied to someone with nukes". Which is ALSO blatently false. So you then had to be like "Well, all of those countries that don't fit my argument don't count."

that's probably why it's the "shithole" it is

Fuuuuuuuuuck. Yoooooooooou.

Are you telling me these countries are stable

Hey guess what dipshit. Most countries in the North aren't stable either. Not even the ones with nuclear weapons. Watch the fucking news.

[MFauli]

Also, congratulations. I didn't think it was possible, but you've managed to dethrone MFauli as the worst person here by defending Nazis.

Then let me reclaim that throne: You are wrong when you accuse ALL WW2-German soldiers of being evil and doing wrong (besides the fact that war is always wrong, ofc). Most nazi soldiers were no differnt soldiers than in any army at that time, men given orders by superiors and being forced to execute those orders. The most gruesome nazi shit was done by a relatively small elite. But that doesn't excuse it, ofc. However, you are wrong when you think that the German soldiers fighting at the Normandy coast were "evil" - they had the order to defend the coast line, just like US soldiers had the order to conquer the coast line.

And clearly "they could have just not execute an order" is easier said than done, otherwise we wouldn't have wars even today. And when the alternative to executing an order is being killed by your own superior, that's also a choice that, while not hollywood-style heroic, is absolutely fair. Kill someone else or be killed? You go try make that decision, Darth.

To circle back to Rimuru: He chose to attack these soldiers. He made zero effort of diplomacy. "But they already attacked the town!", yes, so? That happened when the leader was away, so now that Rimuru is back, he could have tried to negotiate. But he doesnt and the only reason is because of a shitty plotdevice outta nowhere aka "yOu CaN rEvIvE dEaD pEoPlE". :/

[DarthEnderX]

Most nazi soldiers were no differnt soldiers than in any army at that time, men given orders by superiors and being forced to execute those orders. The most gruesome nazi shit was done by a relatively small elite.

They were still aware of what that elite was doing. The holocaust was not a secret in Germany. But they continued to fight FOR it. That makes them culpable.

It's no different now. If in America, you think you're a good cop. But you blindly defend your fellow cops, no matter how bad they are, then you AREN'T a good cop.

And the language. That's to everyone.

But I need my sentence enhancers!