My money's actually on you typing a long ass post, which the forum promptly discarded.
As for the king dying, I'm still thinking perhaps modern medicine will shine. The preview didn't suggest that at all, but if it were to happen then to give it away would be stupid. In other words, the lack of suggestion doesn't actually mean much.
The bigger question would be whether Japan would bother saving him.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
How can it ruin anything if you read the thread afterwards, not beforehand? Bud Bauer can't be that susceptible to other people's influence. Not that most would have found so much fault in the ep, only MFauli, who wants all the Japanese slaughtered and the empire enslaving the rest of that world once again.
I don't understand what you're talking about Kraco..
edit: ooh, you're talking about Bud's post.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
I want some sort of exchange of powers, that is all. Have a group of arch mages summon evil ghosts that cannot be defeated by the JSDF, because, well, they´re ghosts. It´s this kind of fantastical stuff that´s missing, and all we have are funny clad people that are inferior to the JSDF in every aspect.Originally Posted by Kraco
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
As this latest episode showed us, the mages, that is, probably the wisest and smartest people in that world anywhere near the gate, don't apparently want to get involved. An exceedingly wise choice, as expected from wizards. In the first place only the empire has been fighting against Japan (and the fire dragon, but it was a monster). If I was mage in that world, I'd certainly have not wanted to serve that wicked empire of scumbags unless I was evil myself. Considering we haven't seen too many magicians serving the empire, they really do share my sentiment. If Pina becomes the ruler, things might change. She knows what's it like to be practically powerless and ridiculed, plus she has likely sucked some Western influence from her time with the Japanese. She might be able to hire a bunch of mages, but not for fighting the Japanese.
So your reply is "all mages are good". Okay. lol
Also, why isn´t there stuff like armor and shields made of mithrill that even bullets couldn´t pierce? Again, this enemy choose all the weakest aspects of a medieval fantasy world, and left out conveniently anything that might have given the empire a chance to viably fight back.
Maybe bunny and the prince can steal some of the JSDF´s weapons and infuse magic into them
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
No, I'd assume most of them are neutral. Just like most people in RL, more or less. They would have little interest in the empire unless hired for specific jobs. Clearly they wouldn't have much interest in getting themselves killed in a war they couldn't possibly win since they need to be smart people to become mages. The likes of the crown prince can keep dreaming of opposing Japan because the wits of a rubber boot don't carry far.
Didn't ruin it for me.... ruined it for themselves with nonsense. The discussion in this thread has been entertaining to read as an outside observer, but won't complain much, any discussion at this point is welcomed.
Episode 19 - HS
- - - -
Itami seems to be an advocate of the French school of strategy. But whatever as long as Lelei isn't hurt. It's strange he didn't shoot the crossbow man, though. A soldier with Itami's level of experience shouldn't hesitate anymore.
The bunny princess is deadly effective at making the empire rot from the inside, enormously helped the idiocy of the prince/new emperor. If she wasn't so evil and so ready to spread her legs, it would be easy to respect her. Excellent work nonetheless to have the new emperor oppress and slaughter his own folks as his first act in the job. I don't foresee that going quite as well as the dude is expecting, but exactly as the bunny princess is planning. Although that being said, it's a bit strange if she manages to live much longer. People frequenting the palace can't all be blind.
This makes no sense. Why else would you respect a woman?
Peace.
Loli and waki?
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
A loli is a girl, not a woman.
Peace.
This anime has a serious problem making me like its "heroes". WHY would I root for Leilei against her sister, when Arpeggio is clearly the underdog here? Why would I root for the perfect little sister that´s better with magic, money and men? This is not a rethorical question, I really want to know. And it can be extrapolated to the overall story, too.
Why would I root for the JSDF, when they are portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, having ALL the advantages on their side? When those newly appointed generals told the new king about their options for future operations, it came off so desperate that no human being with a functioning brain would watch that scene and think "oh no, you evil villains, I hope Itami and co. will ruin your plans!". Why is that so? Because we ALREADY KNOW that those plans will never work out. At best, they do as intended, have goblins murder villagers, murder villagers while themselves being clad like the JSDF soldiers. But then what? Of course, somebody will find out "oh, hey, this isn´t typical for JSDF soldiers, it cannot have been us" and it´s all back at the new king.
BORING
Fundamentally, yes, 99% of all anime have a happy end, where the good guys win. So the problem isn´t that me and any reasonable people expect the new king to win it all, to slay the JSDF soldiers and force them back through the portal. That´s not it. But for fucks sake, a GOOD, a well-written story demands a compentent villain, a villain the gives off a dangerous aura. I´d say the king and bunny bitch aren´t that bad of a a pair of villains ... but that´s useless when every single one of our heroes has plot armor and plot weapon as if everybody is Kirito from SAO. They´re all TOO perfect. And that was highlighted in the fight between the sisters. Leilei, one of our heroes, is SO perfect that the author couldn´t even grant the loser elder sister a victory in at least that meaningless battle. That is how perfect Leilei is. How perfect Itami is. How perfect Tuka, Rory and the dark elf girl are. They´re untouchable and it its gravely apparent.
In a hope for the story to actually become more interesting, more exciting, I´m trying to come up with an idea for what could happen. First, I hope that the generals´ plan works out after all. Even if the JSDF can confirm for themselves that none of their people committed any crime, hopefully they have no means to prove that to the Empire´s civilians. From there, we´d have a situation where the common folks of the Empire, not just the king and soldiers, would stand against the JSDF. So unless the JSDF intends to slaughter innocent civilians, they cannot progress in their shady plan of conquering the fantasy realm.
What´s important is that the king gains some wit. It wouldn´t be believable if he suddenly turned into a strategy mastermind, but my hope is that he realizes that bunny bitch is doing all sorts of elaborate plans behind his back and reveals that knowledge to her face. This is where it gets difficult: Is revenge against the king the only thing she wants, or can the king smooth-talk her into becoming his true ally, maybe offering her to become his wife, become the queen of the Empire.
You can badtalk the king all you want, but what he said and what he did wasn´t all wrong. Unlike his dead father, unlike his yaoi-loving sister, and unlike his treacherous brother, Zolzal attempts to protect the kingdom from an outside force, and overwhelmingly powerful one at that. Killing some of his own people to trap the JSDF isn´t morally okay, but as he said, it´s the only option they have left against an enemy they can´t face head-on. It´s what Lelouch or Light would have done, too. Well, maybe they could have done something where innocent people didn´t have to die, but Zolzal isn´t such a mastermind, so what can he do?
As I see it, the only option for an exciting story lies in Zolzal and Tyuule teaming up, understanding each other´s worth, and working a real sweat to throw all their ability against the JSDF and its perfect heroes. And I hope they can achieve that, because for the longest time, this anime had no excitement at all, just watching how a group of Charizard, Mewtwo and Zapdos kill some Pidgeons, Rattatas and Safcons.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
You have too much free time.
EDIT:
Finally watched the episode.
To answer one of Mfauli's questions, you will root for Leilei because Arpeggio is a randomly jealous bitch who starts unprovoked fights.
Most of the episode made no sense.
Why did the crossbow assassin walk up to Leilei before shooting? It's a friggin' projectile weapon. If they wanted to make a scene like that, they should've made the assassin wield a dagger. Stupid author, stupid director.
Why the hell did that grandma keep saying "Ara ara ara" randomly the entire episode? I get it's an unfunny joke, but learn some limits, Mr. Scenario writer.
Why the hell did Arpeggio keep missing Leilei when she was running like a tortoise? Does Arpeggio's magic have no aim? If so, why even wield it at all?
The whole 3 night sleeping thing was absolutely retarded. Even the technicality pushed against Tuka was stupid. If Itami didn't even know about the rule, how does "thinking of him like a father" invalidate Tuka? And why the hell is Rory suddenly jealous? She effin' mounted Itami. She should've been bragging about that, not acting like an insecure tsundere while speaking like a whore.
That said, I like the lore of the multiple races. It's actually the only part of this episode that was worth watching.
Has this show always been this bad? I can't help but feel that the quality has been dropping drastically in season 2. Am I alone in this (excluding prejudice-incarnate above)?
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Fri, 02-19-2016 at 08:52 PM.
Peace.
When exactly was that their plan? They only established that single base around the gate, and that's where they have secured their dominion. Otherwise they haven't conquered shit. They have been visiting the capital of the empire in the hopes of negotiating a peace. So that the empire wouldn't anymore send thousands of soldiers to die in vain around the gate. Itami and his team mainly have visited other places, but could you list here which places they have conquered? It seems to me they have been helping those other places so that they wouldn't be conquered by bandits or dragons when the rulers of those lands don't give a shit about what happens to their citizens (which is more or less realistic during those times).
He hasn't done or said anything, it was all planned by the bunny princess. The new emperor is such a laughable tool it's not even really funny. He's so stupid and so blinded by his own petty ambition and greed he doesn't even realise the plan he's following is designed from the beginning to ruin the whole empire. Which leads us to your next point of:
The bunny princess's plan is to see the whole empire get destroyed, not just a single man. If she had only been interested in getting rid of the prince (now emperor), she could have killed him a hundred times already. She was fricking able to kill the old emperor in front of all those people and still walk free, no, gain a position where she's dealing out the new emperor's orders and have bureaucrats complain and discuss the orders with her, a slave, instead of attempting to get to the emperor himself. Technically she's still in a position where a single whim of the emperor could get her head rolling, but all things considered, it's quite unlikely the emperor would do that considering how ridiculously much he's relying on her. All to his own demise, naturally. So, why would she ever work together with the idiot emperor to save anything? That would be the most ridiculous plot twist ever. If she wasn't so evil, she would escape the palace and ask the Japanese to save her people.
So, the Japanese would actually save the empire if they got rid of the new emperor and the bunny princess, but I don't think they will do that. It's something the folks of the empire will need to do by themselves. The Japanese will simply get rid of the people the empire will send to harass the villages. Who knows, maybe they will again bomb some building in the empire to send a message, but that's only if such a message would be meaningful. As things stand now, the bunny princess would make the emperor use it for further propaganda, so it might be useless.
Last edited by Kraco; Sat, 02-20-2016 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Bad typing
btw, the King ain't dead. Japanese medicine is going to raise his ass.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
She has every justification to be jealous. Leilei was painted as so perfect, I can´t fathom how anybody would root for her. It´s as if you were rooting for the evil step sisters instead of Cinderella.
Yes, it has always been this bad. The difference to season 1 is that there was hope that it´d develop into something better down the road, because of the enormous potential of the setting. Instead, the author kept focusing on the worst parts of the story (Itami and his harem).Has this show always been this bad? I can't help but feel that the quality has been dropping drastically in season 2. Am I alone in this (excluding prejudice-incarnate above)?
I take it you forgot about the bits from reality, where lots of politicians had talks about taking the newly found land, like colonies back in the days. All for the untapped ressources. Something that, what´s his name again, the JSDF guy who got stabbed, already worked towards in the most disgusting ways ("i give you worthless glass pearls, you give me all your silver mines").
The JSDF is out there to conquer, and it´d be interesting to see what they´d to if the PEOPLE, not only aristocrats, opposed them. Maybe finally the curtain would fall and reveal the true nature of the JSDF that is anything but friendly and peaceful.
I think you´re doing a whole lot of projecting here. For starters, calling his ambition "petty" is unfair. It is his ambition, full stop. It´s no more petty than a shounen hero stating at the beginning of a story "We will save the world. I don´t know how atm, but I swear, we will save everybody!". That´s not petty, it´s admirable. Furthermore, stop accusing him of being dumb for not realizing Tyuule´s true itentions. I know, I know, crappy writing would make it so that somebody like Itami would instantly find out about her. But in a realistic scenario, she is a sneaky mastermind at being sneaky. So there´s no shame in not finding out about her. Last but not least, again, the new king´s options are pretty limited. Those two plans sound too simple, but what´s he gonna do that could effectively work towards keeping the JSDF away?He hasn't done or said anything, it was all planned by the bunny princess. The new emperor is such a laughable tool it's not even really funny. He's so stupid and so blinded by his own petty ambition and greed he doesn't even realise the plan he's following is designed from the beginning to ruin the whole empire.
Nah, it´d would be far from "most ridiculous plot twist". Remember Tuuka´s treatment by Itami acting has her father, bringing her to utmost vicinity of the fire dragon, then having her fire a bazooka, untrained? Nothing will take this cake. But back to the point: It´s all about desires. What is it that Tyuule wants the most? As I understand it, the Empire decimated her village or whatever, her clan, and she´s out for revenge and wants to take down the Empire. That´s a plan she made when there were only two factions, the Empire and herself. Now a super powerful outside faction has appeared. A force that the Empire stands no chance against. You´re talking about bringing up any silly plans that would nurture the ruin of the Empire, but shouldn´t we assume that she´s intelligent enough to realize the following: Just do NOTHING and the JSDF will overtake the Empire/will change it in its ways. Her strife for revenge has become obsolte with the appearance of the JSDF.Technically she's still in a position where a single whim of the emperor could get her head rolling, but all things considered, it's quite unlikely the emperor would do that considering how ridiculously much he's relying on her. All to his own demise, naturally. So, why would she ever work together with the idiot emperor to save anything? That would be the most ridiculous plot twist ever.
Two important things have changed: The JSDF appeared, and the old king died.
Let´s play this out: "I am Tyuule. I want revenge on the Empire. But not only aristocrats, because I could have killed those a long time ago. I want to take down the entire Empire, all of its people, just like they killed all of my people. Oh no, this overwhelming enemy from the portal appeared! They want to make peace with the Empire! That would mean that it´d become even more stable! From how these strangers treat their own people, it´s unlikely they would ever attack Empire civilians, so I cannot trick them into attacking them. Hm, that only leaves me one option: Help the Empire to somehow successfully push back those intruders. Anything else would lead to more stability for the Empire. So fuck the JSDF for trying to screw with my revenge plans!"
That´s it. If the JSDF is successful, Tyuule won´t ever have her desired revenge. And that´s where I could see her change her original plans. When you cannot take down the Empire, at least make it your own. The worst option would be letting the JSDF proceed as they wished, as that would lead to more stability that no bunny bitch could ever destroy again. And then you have Zolzal, who´s not as clever, but strong-willed, strong-hearted, who wants to lead a strong, proud kingdom. What he lacks in wits, he makes up with in ambition, will, and power. The perfect opposite of Tyuule, who´s weak, sneaky, and narrow-minded, but clever, intelligent and ambitious in her own way. Even if neither of them realize atm, they´d make a great couple. Tbh I´d love to see a scene where Zolzal apologizes to her for what happened to her people. Would leave Tyuule speechless, I guess
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
I'm on MFauli's side regarding the Lelena sisters. Arpeggio is very likable despite her jealousy (which is just fun). She's completely justified in it too. Arpeggio has worked harder and longer than her sister, but Lelei has been written as such a perfect little genius, who grasps everything instantly despite having remarkably BORING magic.
For a while, we really had to assume that the only magic was Lelei's (and the geezer's) style. We knew Tuka had fairy elf magic (which turned out to be pretty badass druid powers), and we knew Rory had divine power. That's it. What does Lelei do? Telekinesis. That's it. And that's all we saw when she fought the dragon, and that's all we saw when she just fought her sister. Levitations, telekinetic bursts, and telekinetic blasts that are area thrusts (they weren't explosions, the animation was pretty clear here, as was the damage).
Arpeggio's magic is far more varied, and the obnoxious granny (HOLY SHIT STFU!) described it pretty well. Arpeggio studies and manipulates minerals to shortcut magical casts (she's actually continually casting with her chain flail. That's cool!), producing a lot of different effects with a lot more grace that Lelei. She produced a lovely string of Axel Shooters. It may have ended with a tie, but if Arpeggio had hesitated a little longer with the coin sneak attack, she would have knocked Lelei out because she would have had no time to dodge.
So you have the one sister who works her ass off, scrapes by because her specialty is expensive, but develops a lot of technique and is considered an expert in her field. You have the other sister who is described (but never proven) to be a genius, has an equally varied but less diverse skill set, who had a great discovery dropped in her lap. Did anyone notice what Lelei's presentation was going to be about? She brought a computer. She's going to show the mages how they can incorporate transistor technology and apply it to magic. She didn't discover shit! She'll easily be granted the rank of Master before her sister with grade school Show and Tell.
Lelei was right that she was able to get more experience than Arpeggio because she was wandering while her sister stayed put in the city. I'll give her that. But Lelei is a "genius" and gets things handed to her by random chance, while Arpeggio has been working to better herself. The only reason that Lelei has made all these recent accomplishments is because she was rescued by the Japanese. That's it. No wonder Arpeggio is a "jealous bitch who starts unprovoked fights." But it's not random.
Shorter notes:
- The granny was INCREDIBLY annoying. It was bad last episode, but I can't stand her. I normally like "ara ara" characters. It's her goddamn voice and tone. She's not teasing like good "ara ara" characters. She's just an old, dumb, ditz.
- When are Yanagida and Delilah going to wake up, or at least be seen again? She has to be a critical part of ending Tyuule's schemes because she knows exactly the kind of person she is. She can shortcut the whole process just by being interrogated about the assassination she attempted. "Oh, you saw one of my people as a slave at the Prince's side? She's a manipulating bitch, watch out for bullshit." Japanese Politics Counterattack then follows.
- The annoying granny was good for one thing. She told us the Gate has the potential to close at any time now. Humans were the last to come. Humans opened it again. The more the JSDF pushes stuff back and forth through it, won't it hasten the time it goes to hibernate?
- The series is seriously the two wars in Afghanistan. Insurgents doing insurgent things to frame their opponents.
Thx for the more detailed Arpeggio analysis, Ryll, fully agreed. And I really like her, too. I never liked genius/prodigy characters, though. Be it Neji, Sasuke, Kirito, Byakuya, or the many others. It´s so much more enjoyable to watch a miserable, but strong-hearted hero eventually grow strong. Arpeggio is all that, she just never got the chance to go out on an adventure. It´s actually really sad how such a great girl is wasted in that dead-end business of hers.
Btw. I totally forgot about the "portal closing and opening". Was there any mention about how long it stays open? This is SUPER IMPORTANT news for the JSDF! Unless they find a way to keep it open (which would be so much bullshit), they can forget about all their conquering plans
And suddenly it makes a whole lot sense for Zolzal to keep fighting for his kingdom. He only has to keep up the resistance until the portal closes.
The only problem would be if the JSDF throws millions of tons of military equipment into their world and leaves some of their men, only to spite Zolzal. Which wouldn´t fit the attitude shown so far.
Keep it up, Zolzal, time is working in your favor!
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
Sure, they are there to conquer in the same way big business in capitalism conquers (because Japan of full of big business and capitalism, just like Germany, for the record). They want to extract ores and oil, possibly plant some rice. However, they haven't done anything yet because they intend to negotiate with the locals. They didn't even send the army to the third country to take down the dragon before they got a permission from the king. They further negotiated an agreement for mining anything but what the king is interested in. Sure, you could say that's dirty business, but that's perfectly standard capitalism for you. In the end it's not like the king would have any use for rare earth elements or many others things the Japanese could exploit financially.
Of course it's petty. He's rejecting peace in a war they started but can't possibly win. He doesn't give a shit if thousands of soldiers or civilians die, as long as he can somehow feel like he's not being forced into a peace.
She's not interested in the empire changing it ways. She's interested in the empire being destroyed. The peace talks were very unwelcome news for her. That's why she tried to sabotage them and start a new war between the empire and Japan. Because she knows the Japanese would easily have the power to destroy the empire. It's just difficult for her to understand that something with as much power as Japan actually doesn't want to destroy other nations. The empire had lots of power and destroyed the bunny nation. Japan has lots of power and should destroy the empire. That's how she's thinking. If the empire managed to win by some miracle, it would be the worst outcome ever for her. I guess at that point she would seal the deal, cut her losses, and simply murder the new emperor and any other noble she could.
I didn't dislike Arpeggio. And I like Lelei. She's cute. Although I don't even know why she's called prodigy or genius or anything. She didn't seem that much in the beginning. But sticking to the Japanese company she learned the scientific method and a lot about physics and the world. She put in some effort there to study, learn, and experiment. If she had never met the Japanese, she wouldn't surely be anywhere near dreaming of becoming the youngest master. But luck and random encounters are a part of life. Some benefit more from them, some less. It's not like fairness would be a law of nature, quite the contrary. But on the other hand she already was ready to risk a lot by setting out with her old master, instead of staying in that comfortable city of magicians. In fact the dragon might have killed her back then. It's not like everything was handed to her on a silver platter. Give the poor girl a break.
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