The Chess Board *spoilers*

Of course, most of you have seen this chess board that is shown when we see Chairman Dulindall. Now ever since episode 29 (the GOOD recap episode), I've been wondered just who's who.

I started this topic instead of it being discussed in the episode 35 topic, which is where DDBen sparked my interest in it.

So first I'll say what the pieces are, to help you all try to figure what GSD character fits best.
White King
White Queen
White Knight (2)
White Bishop (2)
White Rook (2)
White Pawns (8)
Black King
Black Queen
Black Knight (2)
Black Bishop (2)
Black Rook (2)
Black Pawns (8)

From what I know or consider is this -
Archangel = White Rook - DDBen, tm. this makes sense, since the rook is a fortifying castle
Shinn = Black Pawn - DDBen, tm. it is correct as well. now I wouldn't say he's a pawn, but consider the Black Knight (edit)
Dulindall = Black King - commanding ZAFT and manipulating his minions to fight the White
Athrun in Savior = Black Knight > Athrun in Infinite Justice = White Knight - he'll switch sides and Rey will take his old place on the board w/ Legend
Rau Le Creuset = White King - now I'm not so sure...in episode 29, I think this was made clear....but the king was taken. Game over, man! But perhaps Dulindall was simulating how the "game" was for the last war. When King Rau fell, it ended.

Let's keep this topic going throughout the series, if possible. I feel that this is one of the best things in GSD right now. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

(The real) Lacus is refered to at the White Queen in this episode. I think that's a dead giveaway. ^^;; Also given that, Kira is a more likely candidate for the White King then Rau.

Edit @ Dannynonsense: Your no fun. =P There is nothing wrong with trying to guess. With any luck we can find out how far off we were in the last few episodes.

i ll say this once again leave the labeling to duillandal i only say this since the labeling in the other threads thus far have been real strecthes so do what you guys want dont let me stop you

I said this in another thread, but its my opinion that Dullandal is playing both sides of the board. Consider.

ooookay.....yes, Dulindall chooses the pieces

but this is a forum? riiiiight??

so let's GUESS, why don't we. ugh....

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Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
i ll say this once again leave the labeling to duillandal i only say this since the labeling in the other threads thus far have been real strecthes so do what you guys want dont let me stop you

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Actually I think the issue is the pieces keep changing as Dullindale isn't only playing one game of chess. At any given battle anyone could be labeled as any given piece. This also follows closely with the issue of Dullindale playing both sides. Note that the Minerva isn't a single piece but an entire side of the board on its own and none of the pawns really matter in the greater sceme of things. However even a pawn can become something great during any battle as represented by the chessboard this is a pawn making it to the other side of the board.

Currently by stating that Lacus is the white Queen I look at it as his next move will be against her as he continues to use some of his pieces on other battlefields. In this case he just introduced 2 new pieces onto the board named Destiny and Legend. Where they stand depends mainly on the battlefield they are placed on.

I do feel that in the greater sceme that he mentions Lacus as the queen however because at this point he feels she is the most dangerous force in his way with the assumption that Kira and Freedom were just killed that is.

right, I agree with what you posted, DDBen. Another thing: I don't think any white piece at all is considered the "king." If Kira is considered the King, then wouldn't it be game over since Dullindal thinks Freedom and Kira is killed? White King probably refers to all of Dullindal's enemies in general; you know, knock out all the supporting pieces, and the the game is basically yours since all the defenses are gone. To support this, in the last ep, Dullindal says "Is this finally Checkmate? No, the White Queen is a force to be reckoned with" (or something along those lines). Therefore, the white king is most likely not kira, since the report confirms Freedom as "destroyed" (which easily leads Dullindal to believe that Kira is dead).

That is why I've said a couple of times that I think it is a chess/checkers hybrid since in checkers it isn't game over until you have taken EVERY piece. The reason for chess is because of the different strengths of the enemies and allies.

Well then I suppose Kira and Athrun are White Knights (even though Athrun seems to be refered to as the Red Knight several times, by different people). Shinn and Rey would probably be the Black Knights.

I think Lunamaria and Waldfield are bishops, since they are both supporting characters with good MS that are quite important themselves in terms of supporting.
In addition, I'd say Cagalli is a rook, since she technically has one of the most advanced countries in the world, so she can keep up supplies and forces and such.

Archangel = White Rook - DDBen, tm. this makes sense, since the rook is a fortifying castle

I disagree, Dullindal gets a report in ep 35 saying "we havent been able to confirm the sinking of archangel, but theres no doubt about the destruction of freedom... he then goes on to say

"Is it finally checkmate with this...no we cant be careless about the matter...the white queen is a formidable enemy"

Earlier in the same ep when dullindals making a speech we see

http://void01.xs.to/pics/05252/chess.jpg

Which shows the Black Pawn (Whom i assume is Shinn) with the White king in Check with a Bishop infront of it, Hence why i think that AA is a bishop and that the White King is Kira/Freedom (King and Bishop are next to each other in ep 29 as well before Rau picks up the White King)....

Roko said "Another thing: I don't think any white piece at all is considered the "king." If Kira is considered the King, then wouldn't it be game over since Dullindal thinks Freedom and Kira is killed? White King probably refers to all of Dullindal's enemies in general; you know, knock out all the supporting pieces, and the the game is basically yours since all the defenses are gone. To support this, in the last ep, Dullindal says "Is this finally Checkmate? No, the White Queen is a force to be reckoned with" (or something along those lines). Therefore, the white king is most likely not kira, since the report confirms Freedom as "destroyed" (which easily leads Dullindal to believe that Kira is dead)."

Your assuming what Dullindal is thinking, since when do we know what dullindal is thinking. I dont think White King symbolises all of dullindals enemies either, maybe the most powerful at any given time but not all his enemies...

Shinn = Black Pawn - We all pretty much assume hes a pawn, even the shinn lovers would have to agree...

DDBen said "1) Actually I think the issue is the pieces keep changing as Dullindale isn't only playing one game of chess. At any given battle anyone could be labeled as any given piece. This also follows closely with the issue of Dullindale playing both sides. 2) Note that the Minerva isn't a single piece but an entire side of the board on its own and none of the pawns really matter in the greater sceme of things. However even a pawn can become something great during any battle as represented by the chessboard this is a pawn making it to the other side of the board."

1) I agree cause it seems dullindals playing both side...
2) i disagree, every pawn has its uses and does matter in the events of time. Minerva plays the similar role AA did in the last war, so saying Minerva is a whole side rather than 1 piece doesnt fit the way Dullindals playing. On the Pawn issue biggest example is Shinn/Impulse who just wiped the floor with Kira/Freedom regardless of excuses...

kinggalaxia also wrote "Dulindall = Black King - commanding ZAFT and manipulating his minions to fight the White."

I disagree that dullindal is a piece in the game, he seems to me to be the puppet master not
an actual piece, hence why he is moving both sides...

Also by kinggalaxia
"Athrun in Savior = Black Knight
Athrun in Infinite Justice = White Knight - he'll switch sides and Rey will take his old place on the board w/ Legend"

Barumonk suggested "Athrun seems to be refered to as the Red Knight several times, by different people)"

Athrun could easily been a Red Knight that switchs sides...Currently though i dont see Athrun as being a piece on the board...I think rey is alot more powerful than we give him credit for, maybe a Rook possibly Black Queen but i guess we'll see what happens in latter eps regarding him...

And for anybody who brings up Ep 29, Dullindal only made 1 Move during ep 29. All Him and Rau really did was pick up the pieces and hold them answering questions to each other about Destiny...

I personally wonder if the Phantom Pain crew e.g Neo, Sting, Auel and Stellar were pieces... I need to redownload eps 3-7 and 12 to check...

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Originally posted by: LokeXero
Archangel = White Rook - DDBen, tm. this makes sense, since the rook is a fortifying castle

I disagree, Dullindal gets a report in ep 35 saying "we havent been able to confirm the sinking of archangel, but theres no doubt about the destruction of freedom... he then goes on to say

"Is it finally checkmate with this...no we cant be careless about the matter...the white queen is a formidable enemy"

Earlier in the same ep when dullindals making a speech we see

http://void01.xs.to/pics/05252/chess.jpg

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Looking at that pic I would go with Kira is the White king and the AA is a bishop or rather the captain of the AA in that particular battle atleast. I must admit I didn't recheck the episode and those pieces look a little funky so I mistook the king for a rook. That said Kira is definatly shown as a white pawn with the AA as a bishop. Either that or the AA is being refered to as a pawn with minerva representing the other black pawn.

On the other hand I do see Dullindale as the black king with Meer as the black queen as if Dullindale gets killed its game over for him and if Meer is found out losing the black queen would put Dullindale at a great disadvantage.

Honestly I still have to go with its impossible to actually define any piece outside of a particular battle as the number of factors is to great for any single piece to represent a single person in Dullindales game of chess.

i could see Meer as the black queen...Doesnt she get found out in the next five or so eps...

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Originally posted by: LokeXero
i could see Meer as the black queen...Doesnt she get found out in the next five or so eps...

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No idea and it would be best you save that for a spoiler thread elsewhere rather then in this one. I only see Meer as the black queen as she's a reflection of Lacus who has been called the white queen. This of course only matters IF we are talking about a finite number of pieces.

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Originally posted by: DDBen

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Originally posted by: LokeXero
i could see Meer as the black queen...Doesnt she get found out in the next five or so eps...

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No idea and it would be best you save that for a spoiler thread elsewhere rather then in this one.

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Topic Title: The Chess Board *spoilers*
Topic Summary: Let's summarize who are the pieces
Created On: 06/21/2005 06:51 AM

I already thought this did have spoilers involved...

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Originally posted by: DDBen
I only see Meer as the black queen as she's a reflection of Lacus who has been called the white queen. This of course only matters IF we are talking about a finite number of pieces.

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true, Using that same reflection though then Dullindal would be Black King...Still we dont know what piece Rey is, though could he possibly be Black King, kinda like in Dullindal's Stead, since he might know of Dullindals end game objective...

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Originally posted by: LokeXero
true, Using that same reflection though then Dullindal would be Black King...Still we dont know what piece Rey is, though could he possibly be Black King, kinda like in Dullindal's Stead, since he might know of Dullindals end game objective...

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Rey is absolutely working with Dullindale he knows his objective and he's out to avenge Raul who quite possibly could be Talia's significant other with Rey as her and Rauls child. Note that she had a child. That the father is out of the picture as she slept with Dullindale and that Rey is not a clone.

Also speculation is fine and I think the topic is a little misleading with the spoilers title but there is already a stickied topic for spoilers of that nature.

i think shin is a black pawn and rey is the black queen cause he's gay [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] lol
maybe we can summarize the whole chest pieces after 4-5 eps

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Originally posted by: oyabin
i think shin is a black pawn and rey is the black queen cause he's gay [img][/img] lol
maybe we can summarize the whole chest pieces after 4-5 eps

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*barks like Brian Griffin did to Dr. Diddy in Family Guy*

Just my opinion and probably has a few holes.

I believe Shinn to have been a pawn till he fought Freedom a bishop. I consider the White King to be AA and White Queen to be Lacus with Eternal. Perhaps now Shinn made it to the end of the board and took out the bishop. Shinn will now move up to a bishop or even a rook. Athrun I consider to be the other bishop or a knight. With Cagalli set to be a knight. Andy and Mwu/Neo are both gonna be Rooks imo.

Minerva I think is the black queen. Rey is likely to be a rook. Luna is also gonna be a knight. While various other people will be the random pieces. I suspect Meer is probably a rook. Not for the sake of fighting but for the stability and fortification she brings. Athrun was probably his the black bishop.

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Originally posted by: Curium
That is why I've said a couple of times that I think it is a chess/checkers hybrid since in checkers it isn't game over until you have taken EVERY piece. The reason for chess is because of the different strengths of the enemies and allies.

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Funny you should mention that, since the running theme with all the 'prime movers' thus far, has been the utter obliteration of their enemy.

Think aobut it, Athrun's dad declared the war isn't over till every single enemy is dead, Azrael reflected that sentiment, as has Dijibril.

Dillundal, on the otherhand, seems to be playing a different game, though the main objective still seems to be annialation of the enemy (in this case, LOGOS is the target, rather than an entire denomination)


On the subjet of picking acctual peices though, I think the Black/White comparison isn't as clear cut as ZAFT/'Everyone else' - assuming the picture posted earlier suggests what we assume, both Talia (or the minerva in general) and Kira are white peices, where Shinn is Black.

So I propose the theory that maybe the Black/White is linked into person motovation rather than political alliances - Shinn is all about revenge so he's black, whereas Kira and Talia are about peace and honour so they are white. Since Dillundal isn't really on a 'side' so to speak, and seems to be playing everyone up against each other, it would make sense to assume that even though the peices represent certain people or factions, the game is very mis-matched and no clear lines can be drawn.


EDITED IN AFTERTHOUGHT:
So you could say, that in Dillundal's game, white can fight white and black can fight black, because of his manipulations, even though they have something in common, everyone can be an enemy to anyone.

It seems that we need more characters/suits to take into account who is who.

I believe that the DOMs that we've seen Lacus building can be symbolized as well. I believe they'll represent rooks. I lack the knowledge of the DOMs from previous Gundam series but from what I see of their design and the various parodies in other anime, I think they suit the role of rook. I have 2 reasons.
1) Look at the head of the suit. Doesn't it look like a castle top?
2) Don't they glide or something when charging on land? (Last DOM I saw was in a recent eps of Yakitate! Japan)

IMO based on epi. 34 and that picture

AA= white bishop
Orb= White King
Shinn= Black Pawn
Kira= White Rook or Pawn that was knocked out by Shinn(Black Pawn)

why?
-Because AA was heading for Orb(the King) to support them
-Kira was "protecting" the AA(Bishop), so he was originally in-front of AA and "supposedly" knocked out by Shinn
-Orb is the White King IMO because it is Dullindal's(Black King) main/core enemy he has to defeat (or is in his way) so he can kill off the Logos

I may be totally wrong, but thats how I put it.

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Originally posted by: LokeXero


I personally wonder if the Phantom Pain crew e.g Neo, Sting, Auel and Stellar were pieces... I need to redownload eps 3-7 and 12 to check...

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Neo is definately a piece....either a pawn or a knight. Just something that went through my mind when he and Jibril were talking. He said something along the lines of "Remember the purpose you serve." Indicating that even Neo is being used.

Then again, given the debate about his identity, maybe he's a pawn. He seems to be in a situation similar to Sting, Auel and Stellar

yea but that is only if duillandal is a member of logos and for some reason all of a sudden i dont think he is at all

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Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
yea but that is only if duillandal is a member of logos and for some reason all of a sudden i dont think he is at all

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If Dullindale isn't a member of Logos where do you suppose he got a full member list including pictures from. I tend to think its way more likely he is a member then he isn't. Of course considering there anticoordinator stance its a bit hard to believe that he is a member unless he isn't a coordinator. At this point we kind of have to wait for the storyline to show us the answer to this one.

which is why at this point i cant believe he is a member to me it just doesnt seem right will see as the series progresses. one thing though if he is a member of logos once that information is leak his downfall will begin first shinn leaving his side than plant and so on and so forth but that just my opinion

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Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
which is why at this point i cant believe he is a member to me it just doesnt seem right will see as the series progresses. one thing though if he is a member of logos once that information is leak his downfall will begin first shinn leaving his side than plant and so on and so forth but that just my opinion

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It would have to be proven by a very reliable source in order for him to really get nailed like that for it. Considering the fact that nobody in Logos is about to get a press confernce together to say look at him he's also a member. However if say the real Lacus came out with such information he could be in deep trouble.

i don't get it logos are blue cosmos right?
they hate coordinators right?
so how can dulindal or whatever his name is be a member?

I've mentioned this somewhere on here before, but only once so I don't mind repeating it. Obviously I didn't come up with it all at once, but it started because nuking Junius 7 made no sense if they wanted to wipe out PLANT. If Blue Cosmos REALLY wanted to wipe out PLANT then they could have waited until they had more control of the EAF and then launched a nuclear strike against ALL of the colonies at once rather then just Junius 7.

Personally I don't believe Blue Cosmos was acctually formed with the purpose of destroying Coordinators. Individual members may have become obsessed with that goal, but not the main leadership. Blue Cosmos was ONLY formed to make people want to fight by stirring up hate and fear. Of course saying that Coordinators have to die will only enrage 1 side so they initiated the attack on Junius 7. Towards the end of the war Azrael got a hold of the plans for the Neutron Jammer Cancellor and authorized nuclear strikes, but I do not believe that HE had been authorized to do so. Since no one bothered to report it to his superiors he just did it. Then nukes were allowed from the top again in Destiny to try and restart the war.

Now you brought up the fact, is Dullindal part of Blue Cosmos/Logos, makes me wonder a little bit....

Why? because if you look in episode 27 9min 18-22, you will see Dullindal having the specs + info on the new EAF Gundam Stellar was going to pilot (X1-Destroy).

And also include that with the members of Logos pictures

So? How did he manage to get that information?

PS: Remember what Dullindal said, "Then I will change everything"

Well another thing that nobody has seemed to comment on yet is the fact that some of the pieces haev probably already been lost... I mean they've been going on for 35 episodes now and qutie a few people have been captured or killed....

I will take up the stance that Dullindal is on neither side, just playing the game both ways, and is rooting for Black to win....

Shinn as the Black PAwn,
Rey as a current Black Pawn- later probably a Black Knight-,
Lunamaria- BP,
Heine- fallen BP,
Yzak - Black Knight? Just seems like he has some importance more so than the others... but maybe just another BP like...
Deakka- BP
ZAFT Command Station - Black Rook
Minerva - Black Rook, although I could see him having Talia as the Black Queen, however..
Mia Campbell - Black Queen- just because she is so politically important (being able to move in so many directions and so far) And her beign parallel to Lacus
Black Bishops- .......? No real ideas here... Dullindal seems to be the most Bishop like, although I can also see the Junius 7 droppers as a Bishop, due to the fact that I still believe he orchestrated the colony drop, not Logos or EAF, and their sly moving pattern being such. In that case it seems that at least 1 Black Bishop has fallen.

Black King - His cause? PLANT? ...maybe himself? I dunno how this guy thinks...

As to speculation on how Dullindal fits in with Logos, I think he is connected with the company aspect of Logos, but not with the Blue Cosmos. ZAFT Coordinators probably have better engineering smarts than the EAF (ZAFT did invent the mobile suit, makes sense that they'd be the best at creating new units) and I wouldn't be surprised if Logos put aside the fact that he is a Coordinator in order to acquire that much needed military technology.