Given that the village has had a previous history of Karma Demons, I'm with agreement with Shinta that the poison cocktail would have worked on your "average" karma demon. Even Shun was surprised that it didn't actually kill him.
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Given that the village has had a previous history of Karma Demons, I'm with agreement with Shinta that the poison cocktail would have worked on your "average" karma demon. Even Shun was surprised that it didn't actually kill him.
Yeah. That seems very reasonable. Although even if only a third of the karma demons could die by poison, it would still be worth to give the bottle. Not that I'd assume there to be a steady supply of karma demons for good statistical calculations. It could be once in decades occurrence. The village has centuries of history, after all.
It was pretty obvious they try everything, and given what we saw they're capable of, it's pretty obvious why. There is definitely a protocol to ensuring karma demons can't do irreparable, lasting harm.
1) Instill in the children from a very young age that even a karma demon has the ability to willfully recognize they should not exist, and attempt to kill themselves. Years of reinforced training, conditioning, and outright propaganda.
2) Attempt to get them back under control through meditation and isolation.
3) Give them poison pills. If they are committed to letting themselves die as assisted by 1), the pills will work. Shun admitted to Saki he apparently wasn't ready to die yet, so he subconsciously purified himself.
4) Send queerrats to kill them.
5) Send cat(s). The so-called "last resort."
Can't send another cantus user, because the brainwashing feedback will kill whatever cantus user was sent as well, so:
6) Hope the karma demon will recognize what they have become, again instilled by 1), and will themselves to death, overcoming their subconscious desire to live.
7) Despair, for all is lost.
Shun wasn't any more or less powerful than any other karma demon (or telekinetic) who was as far gone as he was. Converting the pills was nothing. He wanted to still live for some reason (some closure about his feelings for Saki perhaps?), and so he did. During the course of their discussion, Shun recognized how close he was to distorting or killing her, the same way he accidentally killed his parents, and mutated Subaru. Given his strong feelings for her, and desire to keep her from being hurt, he was at last willing to submit (or so we are led to believe).
As Kraco said, they made quite the effort to explain, in detail, how powerful the subconsciousness is. Power is easy for a Cantus user, control is hard.
I like the idea of Cantus being very strong from the beginning.
It might also be that Cantus is strong and gets stronger as with age and use.
It's a bit like uranium.
There's great power stored inside and it gets more and more dangerous when you refine it and density grows. And at some point you get past a point where a chain reaction starts and there's a power surge and explosion. Thing is, even in nature it can happen.
So for Cantus, even if you do not do anything about it, it will eventually evolve to a point where it's too dangerous.
The only alternative is to try to control it, even if the risk is having children that become dangerous because they control it with bad intentions (hence elimination...)
Other karma demons aside (because admittedly, it cannot be proven whether Shun was stronger or not because we have not seen any other ones), there is definitely a difference in power between Shun and the rest of the students.
If you say that control is what allows one cantus user to be more powerful than another, and that their base cantus power/potential is the same, then why would Shun lose control first? In that premise, the ones who are weakest in class (because they lack control) should become karma demons first, and Shun, who displayed amazing control, should never go to the dark side.
Just to be clear, the term power I am using is not mere force or strength of the cantus, although that is part of it. It is the overall active and latent ability of the individual. Rearranging molecules using the subconscious should fall into this category. The point of the subconscious is that they are not able to control it in the first place, so it would be weird to say that Shun was able to do that because he had better control of his cantus.
I was trying to say that if you give your conscious self tools to try to shape/control cantus, then you tend to refine your Cantus too.
Why?
Because then your subconscious can use those same tools and shape the Cantus in whatever ways.
So teaching children also has them becoming more dangerous sooner, as the raw Cantus refines itself with the tools children learn at school.
Since the balance beetween brainwashing and abilities is so hard to get right, there's a high "defect" rate resulting in children disapearing.
And once in a while, there's a chain reaction in some child were the Cantus can refine itself autonomously and control feedback can't do anything against it->Karma Demon.
And Among those Karma Demon, we have Shun that might be at the top, able to escape all the failsafes that should have killed him before he becomes what he is to become: a menace to the remaining mankind.
My guess is that the mnemonic that kept Shun from death was Subaru. The unconditional love of this tiny animal was a lifeline Shun was able to connect to. That was just before Shun met with Saki again.
But at the end of the episode we can assume Shun is dead, or will die shortly should his conscious mind be powerful enough to commit suicide in whatever form.
That will enable Maria's growth for the next arc, as we've been hinted Maria will kill many.
Maria will probably be the next top tier Karma Demon, helped by Saki trying to protect/save the ones she loves.
But it might be a little more complicated than that, as Maria is not as important in the show as Shun is till now.
Back to Saki and her handling of the Cat. Well, as said she should be dead without that necklace.
Now I'm a little surprised Shun knew about that protection. He's powerful, has wits and all. But it's hard to think he thought
of that protection and created all by himself. It could be he was help by his family.
Or was it pure luck?
Wasn't that necklace Subaru's at first?
Like the Cat was coming for Shun.
Subaru was with him.
Shun's power already had transformed Subaru. Instead of attacking Shun first, the Cat attacked Subaru and failed because of the necklace. The Cat attacking Subaru first could be the result of 2 things: Subaru's transformation and the Dog/Cat base instincts. Or just the fact that Subaru was extremely quick in reacting, attacking first, forcing the Cat to defend itself.
This giving time to Shun to prepare an attack against the Cat, putting the necklace to protect himself from the second Cat.
At this point, he's already too strong to be defeated by the cats, he then meets Saki and gives her the necklace.
It's kind of funny, in a good way, that when he was floating the marbles during that scene, I was thinking he's a bit of a show-off... But now it was revealed he was likely scared he might accidentally affect Saki with his cantus, and so he did that as a diversion for his own subconsciousness.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
I didn't see him like that during that scene. I was already sure that he was going out of control and he was using the marble to allocate his excess power at that point.
If Shun always loved Saki, why was he together with Satoru? If he wanted to protect Saki by not getting close to her, wasn't he a bit too cold to Satoru, using him just so he can have a partner?
Because he was a shy teenager, despite being a genius! It's easier for guys to get closer to each other (in normal friendship), as well as girls get closer to other girls in similar fashion, and if they have plenty of bonobo genes, I guess that relationship can develop further. I doubt Shun ever had romantic feelings toward Satoru, but maybe he couldn't supress his genes completely and kind of drifted into such a relationship, not having the courage to approach Saki. I don't think he was simply worried about hurting Saki with his cantus and totally unconcerned about mutating Satoru into something unnatural. He's not really that sort of a person. And who would want to believe they are degenerating into a karma demon until it's so obvious they can't deny it anymore? He probably desperately tried to live a normal life as long as he possibly could at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
@David: I think the charm was just lucky. It was too thin for something with a primary purpose of protecting the neck. It's actually a miracle that the metal was exactly where it was.
As for it belonging to Subaru, didn't we get some scenes with him after Shun gave the necklace to Saki? That means he wasn't mutated at that point, and I can't see why Shun would take it off Subaru.
Regarding that scene, I had thought the flying balls were marking the physical boundary that Shun wanted to keep from people. I also thought that Shun's reply suggested he gave the only copy of the charm to Saki, who made the assumption that Shun would have given one to Subaru as well.
The "wasp balls" were to keep Shun so focused on floating and spinning the glass balls that his subconscious wouldn't be able to warp things around him. If 95% of his concentration is used maintaining those in mid-air, he can use the other 5% to maintain a discussion and not worry about the world warping around him, or Saki getting twisted.
There wasn't a physical boundary, they were all around Saki, at the periphery of his present focus, where the subconscious might do the most damage.
I love the idea that Cantus does not simply destroy those you care about. It warps them too. The latter is probably the more cruel consequence, especially for Subaru who retained his heart.
Even the random Saki butt focusing this episode did not bother me at all.
Episode 11v2 - UTW
- - - - - -- - -
It's kind of nasty how they are able to shape memories like this. I guess it would be even worse objectively speaking if it was perfect, but now by having flaws it's subjectively worse because the victims feel they lost something and their memories aren't all real - yet they can't know what they have lost and which ones aren't the real memories. Quite a stressful atmosphere in this this episode all in all. I couldn't help but repeatedly in my mind tell Saki to get rid of the unknown dude during the early portion of the ep. Fortunately he did. Fortunately she still has a gut feeling she lost something precious, even if she can't remember Shun's name or face.
I was first annoyed by Maria, but it turned out she was nothing compared to Mamoru's rejection of the reality. He really didn't want to leave his comfort zone for the truth's sake. I guess he only came that far because Maria was there. I'm glad he was removed from their company before the last part. It was also funnier it was only those three present when Saki and Maria ganged up on Satoru. Well, Satoru's stocks rose a bit during this episode.
Who was the ghoul in the preview? Looking at his environment, it didn't look like the world the townspeople are living it. It was like a ruined hospital from our world (or their very distant past).
There's probably a special reason they're calling out Saki now. I'm guessing Mamoru tattled on the three of them, mentioning Saki specifically. The Ethics Committee is finally starting to understand that Saki is unique. They grabbed all three, but I get the feeling that they just want to talk to Saki. They'll probably just rebrainwash Maria and Satoru.
Each subsequent time, the deeper they try to tear out or overwrite memories from Saki's mind, the further back she can remember and with greater detail. Each attempt they make to modify her recent memories, she gets more of the older ones back. Before, she remembered her sister's apperance, now she remembers a keepsake. More importantly, she recalled someone far less important to her. Not her sister, not Shun, but their old 6th member, culled for her weakness. They had no reason to even try to remember her, but the discordant memories associated with Shun's replacement triggered her suspicions, and she got the vague idea fairly effortlessly. There wasn't even really a reason to remember the poor girl.
Worse still (for the Ethics Committee), Saki's refreshed memory undoes some of the work on her other friends.
The way Maria is talking lately, it seems more like she knows more than she's letting on. It doesn't seem like she's just protecting Mamoru. Maybe that's just the lingering wariness thanks to the warning of her mass-murder spree so many episodes ago.
edit:
Satoru mentioned that the mirror didn't seem to be that badly made. Saki guessed that it was because her sister was weak, but what if that wasn't the case? What if Saki's cantus didn't awaken when she thought it did? I can't help but wonder if Saki made the mirror, perhaps as a present for her sister. Then her parents, out of fear for having Saki awaken so early, had her cantus temporarily sealed? Her mother's joy in seeing it appear could have been more than simply fearing her daughter would be weak for life (and therefore killed). Saki's mother seems to have a huge influence due to her position as historian and keeper of the books penned by karma demons during the degeneration.
Possibly, but assuming they really are keeping an eye on them, the fact they wandered to the deserted village for no reason (under their fake memories) should have been a big signal there was a breach in the reprogramming. However, it's not impossible Mamoru would try to get rid of Saki to protect his big love, Maria. What comes to Maria herself, I'm not sure she's necessarily hiding anything, but her personality is kind of fickle, selfish, and high-school queenish (or whatever word you'd use for that sort of female characters). She might be of the opinion that should would willingly trade a vanished past and friends for a good current life. You could have hardly called her the most compatible person with Shun anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
The preview was hard to interpret, but it looked to me like the ethics committee (of some members of it) might have some other plans for Saki than just trying to wipe her memories again. Maria and Satoru are naturally another matter. It's possible they would have lived a normal life without Saki's interference.
ok, STOP.
Am I the only one who´s feeling like there´s an episode missing`? Damn, I hate those jumps.
Girl kiss at the end was super weird, especially with Satoru hugging them on the meanwhile.
bonobo genes...Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
That was 100% on purpose. There's no way to make the audience forget, so making the audience confused for a little while is the best that could be done to convey something of what Saki was experiencing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Okay...
Subaru = Bulldog/mutated dog
Satoru = gay dude.
Last episode I thought Satoru got mutated into a dog and posted with that in mind, so umm... sorry for the confusion.
Gotta love'm.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
Ryll's theory seems to fit all the pieces, but I just can't imagine what all this achieves (All this means ep1 till now, since the preview suggests that everything up till now was to prepare Saki for a certain task..).
I don't know what they are making you drink in Hong Kong, but it must be potent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Nothing awfully surprising in this episode, pretty much just verifying officially what we all have guessed so far. But then again, naturally this was quite an important episode by having Saki hear about the plans those in charge have for her. I was looking forward to some other sort of revelations from the ethics committee chief, something relate to Shun, but I guess that was nothing but my own useless hope of Shun not being dead... It's still a pity he needed to become Saki's own experience of a karma demon.
If I had to pick some minor surprise, it would be the short history of dealing with fiends and karma demons. The world seems to have a dwindling human population, so one would have surmised there were more of those in the past and thus traditions of getting rid of them safely would have existed for a long time.
Quite an interesting ending, in any case. Becoming a fiend seems to require preconditioning and doesn't happen suddenly without any warning, so I doubt Mamoru (or Maria) will become one now, but who knows. They could have the signs simply hidden beneath the repetitive reprogramming this group has suffered due to the summer trip and then the Shun case.
I love the visuals in this series. The fiend starting in a struggling human guise, and then tearing apart to become a enflamed demon with a human shape, or the karma demon flashing a skeletal form with tears running down its face.
I felt it was pretty obvious what will set Saki's decision. She would either succeed as Ethics Committee head because she wants her memories back of Shun (not very likely), or she will have to stop or even kill one of her friends (almost certain). Mamoru doesn't seem that likely, but Maria is still the primary. I'm not willing to let go of that ominous warning that we got so early on just yet.
Lately, especially after they became official partners, Maria has gotten past her teasing and toying with Mamoru. She has all but vocally admitted she loves him. Maria was protecting him last episode, and furthermore, she was very concerned by him running away here. She's almost desperate to find him. She knows a lot more about him than we've ever seen her say before, so she does pay a great deal of attention to him. I think she is far too proud to admit how much she loves him. She's upset now, and revealing her hand a little.
I suspect that Mamoru will get killed as a result of this. The Board of Education is paranoid after all. Despite Asahina's request to leave them be, they may get fed up with how many chances Group 1 has been given, particularly after they've already had one major failure. If one turned into a karma demon, they're probably afraid another will do after acting erratic. But that act itself will drive Maria into becoming a Fiend. She will seek revenge for Mamoru, and snap, probably slaughtering a group of queerrats and then everyone in the school. This will force Saki's hand.
---------------------
Big fan of Asahina. She was very elegant and attractive, both in the flashback and now.
Lastly, Maria is really cute in her cloak.
That's what I was also thinking, but this show fortunately isn't so straight-forward and linear I'd yet sign that prediction. It could happen, certainly, but will it happen now? If it does happen and if it's the last thing needed to push Saki into accepting the position, it would be kind of... too smooth a ride plot wise. Although if she then did something radical once in power, it would naturally make the plot again meaningful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
They never mentioned the other "benefits" that a Ethics Committee head is granted, just the release of all her suppressed memories. What if they also undo the death feedback? If Maria does become a Fiend, I can't see her going down quietly. She wouldn't be as easy to trick as with pretending a poison is medicine. Also, Saki can't die as a result, as in how the doctor sacrificed himself. It would be something else if Saki actually had to do it with her own cantus. Saki shows a great deal of devotion toward her friends. That led to why she got nominated in the first place. Maria is her closest friend. I wouldn't say that would be smooth, though I also wouldn't say that plot point would be very original.
There is also the issue of Saki's sister to deal with yet. They haven't explained the mirror (which daughter actually made it?), or why her sister was removed. I suspect that will become a bigger issue if they return Saki's memories. There's a lot more to it than just killing her because she was weak, or she lost control too.
While I'm thinking like Ryll as well, I'm also expecting my thoughts to be wrong as you've said. Since I've got no other alternatives though, the money's still on Mamoru triggering Maria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Too right. Satoru's got good genes. I wonder what place he'd have in the society as an adult? I can only really think of him as being on the Education board since he's quick and decisive but not quite compasionate/open enough. Their time during the Summer camp would suggest he's also on the paranoid/cynical side. I'd even say he had more nerves than Saki then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryll
He just doesn't fit being a librarian (the only other role we've been introduced to).
There's also community utility workers, like Saki's father. He runs the waterwheel and electricity lines.
Maybe they'll put him in charge of queerat relations. He has proven he's quite efficient at... dealing with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Sub-sophomoric joy ahead!
Attachment 1398
That is quite the independent observation. I never noticed it.
[UTW] Shinsekai Yori - 13
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The biggest question from this episode is what exactly saved Mamoru? Mamoru is far too weak to crush a copycat and Maria was sent home.
Maybe Shun isn't quite as dead as we might have thought.
I'm guessing the Education Committee picked Mamoru as a sacrifice for a test. Like Satoru's grandmother said, the group is kept alive at the request of the Ethics Committee, who finds promise in them (mostly Saki), a certain resiliency, while the Education Committee has repeatedly proposed that the whole group be purged because they're paranoid.
In killing Mamoru, the Education Committee hopes to provoke another one of them into snapping, justifying the execution of the entire group. They probably really don't like that Asahina met with Saki, and proposed that she be her successor.
I automatically assumed Mamoru attacked the cat there out of fear since I had no better explanation. The Ethics committee already said that they don't interfere with the Education department though, so I wonder if they'll make such a case by stopping a kill.
I'm not quite "feeling" Maria's attachment to Mamoru still. Time has passed, but it still feels pretty jarring to me how it's gone from:
"I love Saki and don't give a shit about Mamoru"
to
"Mamoru!!!!"
My interpretation is torn between bonobos-love and a weak-brother/overanxious-sister relationship.
If the education committee is indeed at odds with the ethics committee on letting the members of that group stay alive, I can see why that society is in the precarious state its in. To *not* utilize people like Saki and Satoru for their talents is absurd, even if they broke rules at some point. One of things that's been bugging me is that, not only is there no hard counter to cantus, even by way of cantus itself, but thus far there's been no discussion about it. No discussion on why such a counter would be possible or impossible, desirable or undesirable. You need people in place to examine that kind of thing with candor, and as a whole, they don't seem to have (or have had) very many such people.
The point is they're paranoid about their experiences turning them into destructive forces. It's not entirely unjustified, Shun was turned.Quote:
Originally Posted by U.Barles
Also, to date we haven't been shown that a strong Cantus is somehow beneficial to society. It seems more like a convenient tool to life. The Ethics head also said it wasn't a requirement for her position, and Ethics sits at the top of the hierarchy.
They explained about how two Cantus interferring with each other is a big taboo back in one of the earlier episodes (ep2?). It was during the games where you pushed a ball with puppets. One guy from the opposite team slowed down Shun's puppet. He was subsequently never to be seen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by U.Barles
Here's my understanding of the defenses they have against cantus users when the social conditioning fails or when conscious control of the cantus is lost:
1) Cats sent to track down and kill the cantus users.
2) Relying on the cantus users to take themselves out.
3) Queerats
Based on what I've seen thus far of cantus users, 1 rogue user could potentially bring down society. 10 could potentially bring down the planet. We know how easily the cats can be defeated, we've seen it happen twice, maybe 3 times. We know how unreliable it is to expect the users to commit suicide. Shun failed even while actually trying (but being unwilling). And the queerats...a rogue user would rip them to shreds, let alone more than one. The methods of defense in place just do not live up to the potential harm posed by unrestrained cantus. I don't see how that society has sustained itself or will continue to sustain itself.
This is why their paranoia and wanting to kill the kids in that group is a problem for me, and it has nothing to do with their cantus. Saki and Satoru are inquisitive. While Saki's mental and emotional stability is exceptional, Satoru's displayed a tremendous amount of insight. These qualities were discovered outside of the curriculum established by the school. Looking at them through paranoia goggles just blinds them to the potential those kids have to help the society. If their way of doing things ends up in the culling of a lot of people like Saki and Satoru, that's a problem. They seem to be working to maintain a status quo that's going to inevitably end in their eradication, when they should be working towards improving their situation. The cowards in charge don't have what it takes. You need some of the people they're trying to kill.
For instance, why is it taboo to interfere directly with another user's cantus? I do recall them saying that, but I thought initially it was only for the sake of the game's rules.
Nothing would make me happier than Shun still lingering, but I wouldn't trust on that. I also got the impression it was Mamoru doing that, but perhaps it was half-subconsciously, leading him down a very dangerous path. But maybe it was, after all, someone else who doesn't agree with the Education committee's decision. It would be strange, in my opinion, if eliminating citizens' children, for any reason, didn't generate opposition, so technically there could be any number of people willing to save him, but naturally the Ethic's committee still seems the most likely helper, unless there's a mole within the very Education committee itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Wasn't that the theme of the show? That a group of children find out truths about their world that's slowly destroying itself. That's what the paranoia and lack of tools, ideas, and methods is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha Barles
They´re all assholes. OH, suddenly you claim you care about Mamoru? Yeah, sure. smh
As for how Mamoru survived that copycat attack...it´s either that Shun is really alive in some form and guarding his friends. Or, Mamoru´s true Cantus powers were showing. Or maybe we witnessed his first steps towards becoming another karma demon.
Whatever. Wonder what they´re about to do now. Sacrifice Mamoru or go back to how things were before their mind being erased. And flee or start a revolution?
I'm not quite sure how to guage Mamoru's power. They've mentioned things from "weak" to "average".. and they're not exactly the same thing.
Well, I don't know if I'd call it the theme, mainly because I don't quite know where this story is heading, and there's enough missing of where this story came from. It'd be nice to see what the other societies that arose after the dark ages were/are like, as well as some of the details of how they handled the problem of out of control cantus users. Because there could be reasons they don't try. A friend of mine likened it to everyone walking around with a pocket nuke as a vital organ. There's no counter to that, and there are reasons you might not want to experiment with that. I'm just not convinced that Cantus has been properly presented as such a case yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
That's just it though. The implication has been that there aren't any others left. What wasn't wiped out by the god-kings was wiped out by karma demons, fiends, or warped by the subconscious collective within the Holy Barrier.
Queerrats are quite a bit more intelligent than any of the other warped species (monoshiros, exploding flycatchers, blowdogs, etc.) that it might be more likely they didn't start as an animal, but are de-evolved humans.
And the most savage of the queerrat tribes are from across the sea. The closer to the civilization, the more advanced they are, the more humanlike. It could go one way, or the other. Maybe they did start as mice or rats and become more and more evolved the closer they get. At this point I'm no longer sure which.
Maybe this is what causes Maria to snap and go on a killing spree.
What do you mean by "this"? Simply the fact that society is after Mamoru? Mamoru dying? Or just this current mess in general?Quote:
Originally Posted by animus
I'm pretty sure this is where it's gonna be too. Saki won't be dying and Maria/Satoru... yeah, not happening.
Episode 14 - UTW
- -- - - - - - - --
Especially when Satoru appeared I got the feeling the board of education was planning to get rid of the whole group, all at once conveniently and well outside of the village, behind Tomiko's back. While the preview suggested queerats' own ambitions might be more dangerous, it's still not mutually exclusive, in fact it would be nothing but the two sides of the same coin. You can't have queerats kill humans but still keep them thinking humans are gods. So, employing them like that is digging your own grave, considering they are much more numerous and the human population must be dwindling.
The board of education wasn't surely too impressive. No wonder they make mistakes. Which is also exactly why they could be trying to pull a fast one while Tomiko believes stuff is going her way. But who knows, it's hard to judge, and maybe they really are willing to wait three days.
I felt they were more than adequate. While they certainly look worse because they have been challenged by Tomiko's chosen group, the inquiry itself was well done. The vice-chairman got to be the "bad cop" and fluster whoever they are talking to, while the chairman herself plays "good cop," worming her way into their confidence by being "helpful." Toward the end, she very quickly turns around and acts with utter disdain toward Saki. Granted, her reaction is probably hardened by Group 1 being Tomiko's pet project, but we also saw that the chairman idolizes Tomiko.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
The way they did it, it would be trivial to trap someone in a lie, or use the Prisoner's Dilemma against them. You could tell they're very good at McCarthy-style trials.
I do enjoy being wrong with regards to story direction though. Saki's vase repair turned out to be quite impressive and important. No wonder she was having so much trouble. I suppose it makes sense. Glass easily shatters, but as an amorphous solid, it must work similarly to telomeres. So while the other students think that Saki is only mediocre because she struggles at her assigned task, hers turned out to be as equally difficult as Shun's was. I wonder what, if anything, they were grooming Maria for then. Probably not Board of Education, they seem to prefer rigid thinkers who like the status quo.
"Docile lambs alone cannot protect a village."
And with that statement most of my doubts concerning the soundness of how they're going about trying to deal with the situation they're in are laid to rest. Some details are still missing in the specifics, but up until now I wasn't convinced that that concept existed somewhere in their society. With that in mind, I actually agree with Kraco on the lack of impressiveness of the ethics committee. It's not that they don't do their jobs well, it's that they don't realize the stakes concerning the members of group 1. This is particularly unimpressive because they were aware that an experiment was being performed on group 1, and that it was ordered by the ethics committee chairman.
In light of that, their decision to dispose of Mamoru without consulting granny was a mistake. That along with their handling of Saki and Satoru implies that they did not consider the reasoning behind the ethics committee's decision to go along with the experiment. This is either because they did not know it, or they really could not (for whatever reason) use that knowledge as input in their decision making. That makes the education committee come across less as a driving force behind the village's protection, and more as a mere tool. Until the introduction of the Tomiko, I thought everyone behind the village's defense were more like the members of the education committee.
I just cannot agree with these people´s conception of society. Yes, even individuals can become huge disasters if they turn into fiends/karma demons. But the solution mustn´t be that we kill every child that shows certain signs. It´s all the worse when seemingly all adults agree on this procedure. I also cannot imagine that Saki would ever agree on it, so I wonder what has Mrs Immortal that confident.
During Saki´s hearing, I kinda hoped that she would just say "screw it" and start going berserk against these heartless pricks. And when somebody knocked the door, I had hoped it´d be Satoru, having fled from where he was kept after his hearing, and wrecking havoc on, again, these pricks.
About the telomer-regeneration: Shouldn´t this be an ability that everyone can learn? Fixing stuff seems rather unspecial.
Think of it as a final safeguard. If a fiend or karma demon cannot be stopped, eventually they'll die of old age, illness, or their own genes becoming unstable due to their Cantus. Given how long Saki has been practicing fixing that vase, it is apparently quite difficult, and that's only the first exercise to achieve that. It doesn't seem like an ability that would spontaneously develop from one's subconscious, it requires a lot of concentration.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
You want to give that ability to someone with an extremely stable psyche, like Tomiko believes Saki has.
Also, who wants to live forever? It's a tough skill, those who can pull it off get the "reward" of watching everyone around them die of old age, like Tomiko said.
Education maintains the status quo for the sake of stability, and Ethics carefully guides society forward. If Tomiko has been ruling their community for 200+ years, she finally found someone who can guide them in a new direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha Barles
Both are necessary, and Ethics > Education in the hierarchy because otherwise society would simply stagnate.
Because history has taught them that it's the best available method, even if it's not ethically ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Repairing things on a micro-scale is apparently not. You don't have to have a perfectly flat surface for something to function as a mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
I called the education board unimpressive because they are supposed to supervise education (and students in general, that is, young population), but I think being placed in charge of disposing kids has twisted them. If they appeared good at interrogations, good cop + bad cop routines, and whatnot, that's nothing but a sign of how bad things are. They are just witch hunters anymore, and only try to maintain appearances. There's no way they would have interfered with Tomiko's experiment if they hadn't fallen so deep into their god complex, because they would have seen the bigger picture like those responsible for education and public morals among the youth should. In short, they have given up already. No wonder Tomiko wishes for a successor who could perhaps change things.
What about this: Make sure to train EVERYBODY into a strong Cantus-user. Even if one of them turns into a karma demon, the others should be powerful enough to stop the fiend with their own powerful Cantus. That way you don´t have to dispose of imperfect children.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Death-feedback makes normal humans rather incompetent killers.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
I brought this up a couple of weeks ago, asking the question about why cantus cannot be used to interfere with another's cantus. The series hasn't quite answered that question yet, but the overwhelming impression is that, for one reason or another, this is not possible. As far as harming the cantus user himself (as opposed to interfering with his cantus), the behaviour conditioning they go through prevents that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Everyone is indeed being trained to control their cantus, but not everyone has the same potential. If nothing else, they seem willing to train you as far as your potential will allow.
UTW - Episode 15
--------------------------------------
Squealer!! Boy, do I LOVE hating you. It would be my pleasure to wring you like a cloth, but you bring along the much-enjoyed (one could argue "needed") tension in this show that I'll have to wait till the end of the series.
Squealer is surely thinking big and queerats making progress by leaps and bounds. It's indeed a dangerous situation for the humans who are stagnating fast. Of course queerats have the huge weakness of depending on a single queen per colony, but nevertheless, the humans shouldn't get too complacent. It's as clear as a winter sky that Squealer wouldn't think twice about slaying all humans if an opportunity without unreasonable danger arose. Even now he's quite masterfully using Satoru and Saki to further the imperialistic goals of his own colony.
I guess it was hinted a human could be used for his cantus if properly lobotomized...
The show runners are quite masterful at building tension. It almost felt like watching a horror anime. The scene where they were entering the queen's chambers was rather scary. In fact, I don't think I've felt this way since the scene in Shiki, when Megumi slithered from under the bed to blood drain Toru.
And yeah, I'm fully expecting the queerats to fight against the humans soon. They're definitely kissing human ass right now, but having been able to exert significant power upon their own queen, they've gotten a taste of what it is to rise from under oppressive rule and fear. I have no doubt they at least somewhat see a similarity between the power previously held by the queen, and the humans. I'm sure that right now, they're brainstorming and developing ways to fight against cantus users. In fact, Squealer's intense attentiveness to Satoru's abilities and limits during the group trip arc is probably what prompted the effort to begin in earnest.
Yup...Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
Perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
Childbearing is a biological function though, while Cantus control seems to require a proper consciousness to filter through. An incapacitated Cantus-user-in-a-jar could be quite dangerous. It'd essentially be a Karma Demon.
Indeed. However, I'm not so sure Squealer would in fact want a cantus in a jar. He might simply want a docile, obedient, harmless human to parade around, to use as a tool to rally queerats againt humans by showing that while they can be dangerous, they certainly aren't gods. Of course it's possible, if they have a false minoshiro, that he might have learned of karma demons and could be planning to make a "cantus bomb" to decimate a human town, but right now I feel that's a stretch.
I REALLY hated Saki and Satoru in this episode. Oh no, queerats don´t like letting themselves be eaten by their queen! Bad, bad queerats! You´re oh so cruel defending yourself against this awesome example of a "mother". WTF
And I really like Squealer. At least one "person" in this anime that´s smart, clever and ambitious. It´s quite clear to me that queerrats are one of the degenerate past human tribes. And they´re about to cause an upset. Though I´m not following the above discussion. Saki wasn´t worried about the queerrats using a cantus user ... she was worried about them using cantus-users in the same way they use their queen. Or am I over-analysing this? It kinda sounded to me as if Saki was worried the queerrats would breed their own cantus-users ...
I think they've evolved rats. Cantus users are changing their environment and creating new species. The False Minashiro was supposed to be a sea cucumber or something. It seems as if there are no degenerate humans to be seen thus far. They're all either dead, or Cantus users.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
The theory is supported here by how the two main clans (Robber Frly, Giant Hornet) are also the most human, seemingly due to their higher exposure/interaction with Cantus-humans.
Saki is worried that queerats would revolt against humans (their superiors) when they have the means to do so. If humans were deemed necessary to the queerats' survival somehow (let's say... they need bioenergy - to borrow from The Matrix), then humans would be kept alive to the extent of serving that purpose only.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
I was amazed at words like "concrete", "diplomacy" and "encephalitis" to come from Squealer's mouth. It really shows how far they've come (and how far they can go / how dangerous they can become).
Agreed. And the fact Saki and Satoru, and perhaps others, now think they are getting closer to humans will only accelerate their evolution, if indeed the stray thoughts of cantus users during their sleep affect those outside of the towns. If they are already predisposed to consider them close to humans, their subconsciousness will only grant them more human characteristics. It will also be troublesome in the sense that once they get too close, humans might not be able to fight back anymore due to their conditioning. The cats won't stand a chance against heavily armed armies, either.
If you watch her and listen to her words carefully, Saki actually wasn't that opposed to their actions and that upset Satoru further who then spent effort convincing her otherwise. That surprised me at first, I expected it to go the other way around. But then I remembered Saki never liked the fact that the queen once tried to kill Squealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
So Saki was a bit horrified at the fact they had lobotomized her instead of some other method, but in truth she was having a difficult time finding faults in their logic.
What Saki didn't like was that Robber Fly was using the two of them as a shield and nuke. She recognized that right away, while Satoru didn't.
The pair are not as united as your post seems to imply.
^ Which surprised me. I always thought Satoru was the smarter/more paranoid one when it came to dealing with queerat-interaction and politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryll
Saki has the advantage of information. She knows far too much for someone her age. Satoru may feel something is off, but her knowledge supersedes that.
The queerats are really arrogant if they think they can overthrow their gods. Satoru and Saki could have wiped out a colony, or so Satoru claims (quite accurate judging from their power). Imagine what high ranking cantus users can do.
I find this to be a highly interesting analogy to reality. Just one civilisation pushed back/forth. We = queerrats, using science to master nature/god/whatever. And we´re watching it all from the perspective of god/nature, instead of the usual human view point.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Perhaps. If only they knew they don't actually need to do anything but survive and wait to win. But of course Squealer might want to see the change during his own lifetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
UTW - Episode 16
------------------------------------------------
I'm happy that Satoru and Saki finally scored one together of course, but with the bonobos genes floating around, such acts of bonding don't carry the same significance that I have in my mind anymore.
I also wasn't aware that Saki and Maria were that close. The entire group had been presented together in such a away that it wasn't apparent the pair were the stronger "childhood friends" out of the bunch. (granted, I'm sure it was purposely presented that way).
Squealer is so saving that card up his sleeve for blackmailing. The key to diffusing the Squealer timebomb is whether Kinoumaru ends up siding with the humans or one of his own kind.
At some point, Saki is going to have to go on a journey, find Maria, and kill her. She knows it, and that tears her heart out. I don't think a lot of it would have to do with Squealer's blackmail. I feel like it has more to do with something else Saki is pretending to forget about Maria amidst all the happy memories.
I'm not sure how much of the Shun-Phantom is Shun somehow still interacting with the world, and how much is Saki's subconscious. She frequently goes to it as a voice of reason.
It's not that simple at all. It all depends on Saki's fortitude and little else. Because the queerats can ill afford to try to confront any humans with an attitude like that. If Squealer tries to blackmail Saki and Saki refuses, then what? He goes to some other humans to rat on Saki? Maybe it would hurt Saki, maybe not, but most assuredly it would make those humans, who are already paranoid enough to slay their own children, become extremely suspicious of queerats. Like Maria's letter attempted to teach, these people no more stop at anything when they let fear control them, so it wouldn't spell well for queerats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
So, for now I'd be more inclined to think Squealer is smart enough not to employ it as a tool for blackmailing but rather a favour. He was pretty good at using the kids for his own ends, more than once, so I think such manipulation is more like his chosen path. Until queerats decide to wipe out humans entirely, of course.
I guess I'm pretty miserable, but I can't help but hope it means Shun is still lingering... But naturally Shun's vague memory would play splendidly the role of Saki's inner voice of reason and conservatism considering Shun played it by the book, trying to kill himself once he became a karma demon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryll
But it would prove the queerat's loyalty to the humans overall. I wouldn't be so sure the humans would fear them just yet, since they're pretty sure of themselves about their genetic superiority and ability to kill of queerats at will. They only fear karma demons and fiends because they're something they can't kill. (PS: all the more eerie that Squealer mentions human bones as if he's had to deal with them before).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
As as for Shun, I think he's pretty dead. If a karma demon wants to kill themselves, I'd think nothing can stop them.
Except their own subconscious...Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Shun tried once, he failed. Shun tried again while sending Saki away, there's no way to know if he succeeded.
Which was stronger, Shun's desire to keep Saki safe from himself, or his desire to still be a part of her life?
Shun thought he wanted to kill himself initially, but he actually didn't and his subconscious degraded the pills. The second time he well and truly wanted to die. I am convinced that Subaru's death got through to him that his very presence means death to those around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
No, it wouldn't. That's my whole point. It would only prove two things: Queerats withheld the information until it suited them to reveal it, and once they heard what Saki had to say, they might also learn queerats tried to blackmail humans. Many of those in power among the humans are paranoid. They don't fear only other humans, they also fear information and thus false minoshiros. If they realised queerats aren't only brainless half-animals, a paranoid mind wouldn't be able to take it for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
My favorite part of this episode was the beginning, where Maria basically explained how shit this whole current concept of their society was. Exactly what I´ve been saying last week. Nice.
As for the future, I see at least one of two things happening, necessary from a story-telling perspective:
A) The FULL-ON way: Saki and whoever´s left officially turn against the adults and fight. Destroying most of the villages, accepting everybody who shares their view.
B) The subtle way: Shun is still alive. As are other previously thought dead children, be they karma demons or not. Some big twist is unveiled, showing something like ... like all those who were supposed to be killed but survived, having managed to create a better society by themselves.
I'm definitely appreciating the attention paid to detail by this series. Satoru finally brought up questions about the underlying mechanics of cantus and just what exactly must be powering it. His thoughts continue to venture into profitable territory and I really hope that gets fully developed. Not that I have any reason to think it won't. This kind of thing'll be needed because Maria's description of the village was definitely spot on. In particular, she says that it's not simply that the adults are terrified of what happens when a cantus user goes rogue. The way the keep tabs on things seems to suggest something more is happening. I can't tell if Maria is simply lacking knowledge that Saki is privy to, or if she's indeed becoming aware of something more sinister.
That dream Saki had was fantastically creepy. More like a bad shroom trip than a dream in fact, which got me thinking: I don't think she's as free from manipulation as it might seem. It's just a feeling, because certainly the conclusion that Maria has to die is a logical one given the talks she's had with the head of the ethics committee. Even so, something about that dream felt implanted, and her waking thoughts felt like a conditioned response to a stimulus. I'm thinking this probably because of how against the grain it is relative to her feelings on the matter. Thinking a bit more into it, it makes sense that they wouldn't let the members of group 1 completely from under their power even if they're given more leeway.
I don't think you need to think that deeply about the necessity to kill Maria.
Mamoru will get killed, by someone. If not from their home community, someone or something else will. When that happens, Maria is going to become a fiend, and she will return to the villages to wreak her vengeance for driving them away in the first place.
It's not manipulation. Saki knows Maria better than anyone else.
Quite rapid development. I wonder what kind of military technology the main army of Robber Fly is boasting, or if it was sheer strategic excellence that granted them an easy victory. The preview suggested Maria & Mamoru might be somehow involved, but who knows. I certainly see no reason why they would intervene in queerat conflicts. Unless they in fact never fled far but have been living supported by Robber Fly.
Other than that, I was happy Saki and Satoru weren't together. Although I guess there's a danger this incident will cause that to happen.
The Giant Hornets got completely annihilated in a subsequent battle.
Now this is a pretty big if, but what if Robber Fly has Maria working for them?
Saki and Satoru contemplated the effects of lobotomization on humans. The Robber Fly alliance has become experts at it working on their queens, despite the crude efforts they once had with Robber Fly's queen.
I'm not suggesting that they captured Maria, lobotomized her into a compliant state. But what is the possibility that the Robber Flies captured Mamoru lobotomized him, and are using him as coercion? At first, I would think she would go on a bloody rampage, slaughtering all of them to get him back. But what if they had performed it in such a way that she would need them to take care of him for her? Mamoru seems a likely target for capture, he's too timid and would be too trusting of queerrats after his departure from society.
I think Squealer/Yakomaru is too smart to merely be used as a pawn by Maria in her scheme of revenge against society. He would certainly use her if the offer was presented, but he wouldn't tolerate living under her command, he views queerrats as equals to the gods these days. I can't blame him really, he finds it so easy to trick all but the most wary of them (Saki and Asahina Tomiko).
As an aside, 26 year old Saki is hot. I like her air of sternness as well, always did, but now it suits her all the more. I also wonder if she has still been working on her telomere regeneration exercises with Tomiko. Saki working for the exospecies department is not something I ever would have guessed she'd do. Now I am really curious what happened in those last several years.
I didn't get the commentary during the fight. One side is shooting the other with firearms, and they're surprised that the ones being shot at have bamboo shields? wtf.
While I think Maria is working with Squealer to destroy the Giant Hornets and the village, I don't quite buy the use-Mamouru-as-bait theory just yet, though the more I think about it the more it sounds plausible.
As for Squealer refusing to work with or under a god, I wouldn't be so sure about that. He's got his pride, but he's also crafty. If he has to bow his head to a god in order to use them, so be it. Dealing with one or two gods after the village is destroyed is much easier than trying to overthrow an entire village by themselves.
Haven´t watched the new ep yet, but random question that came popping in my head:
What is "shin sekai yori" translated into english? "Shin Sekai" means "new world", but how do you translate the "yori" here? Afaik "yori" is used for making comparisons, like "otoko wa onna yori tsuyoi" ("men are stronger than women"). But I cannot make out how to translate this title. Anyone?
The ones using the guns also had the thick bamboo shields. The comment was meant to point out that the Robber Fly Alliance is using ancient human warfare technology, largely mirroring human history detail for detail. The implication is clear, Squealer/Yakomaru has captured a False Minoshiro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
I shouldn't even respond to this, but try reading the first post in the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
At the beginning of the ep, I was wondering if we were following a backstory to
another Saki from centuries ago before Queerats developed into what they are in the
Saki era we know of. Eventhough they were careful in showing us the year, Satoru
and other details.
I clearly would have liked such backstory, but the episode was a lot stronger for
many other reasons.
Adult Saki is hot, that's clear, but I find her not that mature for her age. Maybe
she's been working on the aging stuff and only ages at 1/4 or 1/3 of the pace of
other human beings. In the ep, she was more around 18-20 than 26 in my opinion, at
least on a mental level. But again, this is purely based on some expectation and
examples from the societies I live in, and not theirs that is clearly less advanced
and openminded.
Regarding the Queerats, my idea is that Humans have been played with bigtime.
They did not understand the battle they were offered to watch was for show and
something more sinister is in the works.
Of course, it's easier for us to know as Saki spoiled us into searching for what
can go wrong.
They are gradually outsmarting their Gods in strategy, tactics, war, science and numbers.
They only lack cantus, but numbers and war experience could have them beat humans after all.
To my knowledge, they were able to get rid of the monk, even if losing lots of their peers.
If they ever got their hands on a minoshiro, they probably now are devising long term strategies to overpower humans.
And maybe they are indeed using Mamoru and Maria in ways we do not know yet. Either their fiend form that can transform some of their peers into powerful beasts, and maybe others in smarter forms... After all, they have numbers, so they can experiment a lot.
Or as stated above, by controling one with the other.
Saki probably felt something strange, but never dared speak at her small level. Tomiko is growing old and her ear ending is not a problem for her. Maybe she's even wishing for something to happen at the end of her life, like what happened at the beginning as everything in between was so boring.
The decision to have Saki care for exospecies for so long is a smart one too. There she can learn the work position she should have some day as managing human communities... food/water/homes/quarrels etc and decisions to have some dead and save others.
But it only holds truth if humans survive. We think we know Saki is still living, but maybe we're only having her stroy told from a minoshiro...
I wanted to try a more detailed and better written answer, but that would take too long and I'd miss the right time to elaborate.
So I decided to throw ideas poping from the top of my head.
It clearly was a good episode for all the subtext anyone can find.
The end of monarchy and subjugating the queens might have been more of a political and societal development theme than a hint that humans would be put on the operation tables of queerat surgeons. During the interrogation in this episode the people present showed some surprise when Squealer talked about deposing queens and establishing democracy. But who knows, maybe the author watched the Planet of the Apes back in the day...
I won't believe queerats are outright coercing Maria (or Mamoru) to do anything until I see it with my own eyes. Not that Squealer wouldn't be able to stomach such a thing, but it's still probably a bit premature for them to risk so much.
I re-watched that scene.. it seems the ones doing the shooting were actually the Hornets (with both sides having shields).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Okay, but why is "yori" translated with "from"? Should be "Shin Sekai Kara" then.
Anyway, watched the new ep.
I *HATE* Saki and all the humans. Seriously, I´m SO rooting for the queerrats ... both factions. I like Kiroumaru´s dignity and powerful appearance. And I love Yakomaru´s wit and intelligence.
Nothing the queerrats do is "evil". They´re trying to create their own society - which is perfectly fine in my book.
Let´s hope the queerrats somehow manage to cause an upset, putting "the gods" off their podestal and become the new dominant species of the planet. Saki watching the queerrats´ war is barbaric and nothing else. fuck her.
Nope, Saki is just undergoing the training required to be a human leader.
Karma Demons warp things unconsciously. Fiends kill things without limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
This reminded me of a very good point. The queerats were bred to be the humble servants of mankind. The democracy thing clearly shows that they've evolved out of that docile mentality. If we're evaluating them as living things it may be unethical to cull them based on their will for dominance and survival, but from the human perspective they're not defective products that no longer serve their purpose - Like an AI that has gained self awareness and desires self-preservation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Remember the Clone Trooper's commentary about Jedis?Quote:
Originally Posted by David
If they can be tricked, they can be killed.
Too bad a single human can wipe out a colony. If the naked mole rats pose any threat, it is due to their ability to make use of cantus, like how they manipulated Saki and Satoru in the past, and now Mamoru and Maria.
@Mfauli - Yori is also "from" in Japanese. It is the noun form of the word yoru, which means "to come from." Learn more of the language before complaining.
This is getting really good, only show I'm watching this season. I'm afraid to stumble into spoilers, does anyone know how much material this show has to work with? Would make my day if it has many many books.
According to Wiki, this story originates from just one novel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrlderek
It isn't a light novel, but an actual novel, right?
That's what I think, so it shouldn't be lacking content.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
So with less than aproximately 100 queerats, they were able to:
Kill many humans
Kill somebody the equivalent grade of a general
Kill somebody equivalent to a ministry of war
Evaluate the power of the main weapon humans have : Shisui.
For the latter, I guess his power probably is at max the one of a Fiend/KD... or he wouldn't be sane himself.
And for some reason, I think queerats already know how to deal with Fiends/KDs...
Also, they confirmed for themselves humans suck at the art of war...
Regarding bones and DNA, we have to remember Mamoru is a great artist, he probably has the skills needed to create very good bones and dental copies. For DNA, I guess that since he's about to go KD, his powers skyrocketed and he was able to apply all his knowledge to the molecular level. I think this is all Mamoru's doing as we do not know much of Maria's specifics as we only saw her using cantus to jump/fly.
It was indeed a successful strike for the queerats, considering a single fight. Though what happens next will decide the result of the whole war. If Mamoru and/or Maria is defending the colony and have become fiends, then the extermination team might be wiped out. A karma demon wouldn't be overly convenient since they eventually destroy everything around them. But a fiend might be manageable for queerats. Besides, I think people from the village would have spotted the effects of a karma demon. Such a thing would need to be kept far away from the colonies and especially human villages.
HELL YEAH!
That was my reaction over the course of most of this episode´s length.
I really have to ask: Am I the only one that feels that the queerrats are the good guys here, while the humans are the villains? Or is it an intentional plot element?
Never did I think "oh those damn queerrats, hopefully the humans can defend themselves". Instead, I saw arrogance and coldheartedness on the human side of things. Tomiko daring to speak about "living beings" at the end of the episode, when all she cares about is her own species, made me rage.
Go, Yakomaru, make this world yours!
:>
I'm all for the humans. I can't really fault the queerats for wanting to attack humans in order to rid themselves of constant mortal threat, but I do hope they lose. Humans are prettier. They never seemed to kill queerats on the basis of "just because they could" either, so I see them as nice bosses who were simply genetically superior.
Are Fiends actually more powerful than their non-Fiend counterparts, or do they simply have their Death Feedback removed? Full bets on Mamoru being the Fiend backing up Squealer. I wonder if Mamoru and Maria actually never left the village and promised to help the queerats instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by David
As far as the humans are concerned, I don't want to see Satouru die, that's about it. I really do dislike the arrogance of a lot of the humans. It seems like our main characters are the only ones with any empathy with the queerats even if they're pretty bad themselves. I'm kiiiiiiiiiiiind of rooting for the rats. Besides, Yakomaru is just too damned entertaining not to be rooting for him. It'd be like watching the Dark Knight and not rooting for the joker. Hogwash!
And um...Kimomaru is totally in on all this. That smirk he displayed last week totally gave him away. I suspect both he and Yakomaru leveraged the favors done for group 1 in the past to enlist Mamoru and Maria, combine with some brain washing by way of sympathizing with their plight. Furthermore...I'm entirely convinced that the skeletons Saki and Satoru returned to the village were human skeletons. I think Yakomaru, by that time, had already seen or taken part of the murder of a cantus user. The remains are probably from said user. This was already a great episode, I can't wait to see what comes next. Crafty rats...
I thought that was just bloodlust..Quote:
Originally Posted by Barles
During this episode while Shisui was standing on his tower, I was wondering the entire time whether queerats had invented/re-discovered sniper rifles yet. He just seemed way too good a target.