In the news today

[Archangel]

don't get me wrong, but do you guys over there go to the casino on a daily basis or something?
They might have been just passing by, Zell himself mentioned he did it daily

[RyougaZell]

Yeah I think he was being sympathetic, but you blew it Ryouga.

Well excuse me if I don't take the usage of the word 'funny' the right way given the circumstances. Not that I had enough time to decipher the meaning of its use.


don't get me wrong, but do you guys over there go to the casino on a daily basis or something?

My parents used to go every sunday morning to eat breakfast at a Casino. Then they went to different casinos on the afternoon, including the attacked. The day of the attack I called my Mother, and she wouldn't answer her cellphone. Seeing as an aunt usually took her out on weekdays... and they used to go to casinos... I was scared shitless. She was thankfully at a friends house on a reunion. I kinda scolded her for not carrying her cellphone.

The casino my parents frequented was closed down on saturday. The government closed 7 of them during the weekend.

And according to the Governor... apparently 5 of the attackers were captured today. 'Apparently' being the code word...

[Animeniax]

You could always apologize after the fact.

It's funny that when I read Archangel's post, I knew exactly what he meant and that there was no disrespect and he wasn't making light of the situation.

[dragonrage]

How does Apple deal with hackers?


Hire the hacker. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/08/26/comex.apple.intern/index.html?iref=NS1)

[Xelbair]

So basically, people labeled as "forum douchebag" should get lauded for being douchebags even when it comes to talking about the murder of the people of another member's community?
I'm saying that you just shouldn't expect anything better from him.

[Buffalobiian]

You could always apologize after the fact.

It's funny that when I read Archangel's post, I knew exactly what he meant and that there was no disrespect and he wasn't making light of the situation.

Yeah. All Ark meant was:

"I saw this on the news and was just about to post it here and ask RZ how he's going."

[Kraco]

That's enough about Archie already. I don't want to move posts from this thread to the Pit.

[enkoujin]

Hurricane Irene has some Economic Benefit (http://wusa9.com/news/article/164801/158/Hurricane-Irene-Has-Some-Economic-Benefit)

I find this quite interesting. It really does show that every crisis comes with opportunities.

EDIT:

I've been getting phone calls from this "technical company" called "Windows Service Provider". If you get a phone call from this company that's been telling you that you've been downloading a lot of "junk files" or "viruses", immediately recognize it as a scam (Indian accents as well) - just some news to alert others.

[Xelbair]

EDIT:

I've been getting phone calls from this "technical company" called "Windows Service Provider". If you get a phone call from this company that's been telling you that you've been downloading a lot of "junk files" or "viruses", immediately recognize it as a scam (Indian accents as well) - just some news to alert others.
There is scam going around over here too - people claim to provide free 'steam account' keys, not the game keys - account keys.
Some people might hate me for saying this. Natural selection, if someone is stupid enough to fall for 'windows service provider' or 'steam key', then they deserve it. Same thing applies to people doing really retarded shit.

[Kraco]

Some people might hate me for saying this. Natural selection, if someone is stupid enough to fall for 'windows service provider' or 'steam key', then they deserve it. Same thing applies to people doing really retarded shit.

While that is true, I still pity the old people who barely learned to read their emails, use their online bank, access some government site, and check the pics of their grandchildren from the web - and then get scammed by some tech savvy sounding scumbag. They don't deserve it in my opinion, as long as we aren't talking about Nigerian emails.

[Buffalobiian]

I half believed those guys once. They told me that my antivirus wasn't running, and perhaps by sheer chance my av service was indeed NOT running at that moment. Played along with them after that, but they sounded too fishy afterwards, so I told them I'll call them back.Their last line was "Don't you care about your computer??"I sure do, lol.

[Dark Dragon]

‘Spartacus’ Star Andy Whitfield Dies of Lymphoma at 39 (http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/blogs/2011/celebrity-deaths/spartacus-star-andy-whitfield-dies-of-lymphoma-at-39/)

R.I.P

Great actor, really too bad because i think he would've gone on to do some amazing stuff.

[rockmanj]

Wow, he was really young and a good actor.

[Archangel]

Andy Whitfield, Star of ‘Spartacus’ Series, Dies at 39 (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/arts/television/andy-whitfield-star-of-spartacus-series-dies-at-39.html)

Well this is some grade A bulshit

[Animeniax]

That's what people do... they die.

[Archangel]

At 39 in the "peak of health"?

[Sapphire]

That's what people do... they die.

Get out.

[Archangel]

Yeah i can totally see you getting banned by Sapphi on account of that comment alone, Ani

[Carnage]

Well, you can't say Animeniax is wrong.

[Animeniax]

Don't you people dare disparage my nihilism. If you do, you're committing discrimination based on religious beliefs and I will report it to the mods.

No offense to the dearly departed... not sure why I posted that. Might have been in a bad mood.

[Edort4]

I thought the same yesterday. Everyody was just talking about this guy, what a terrible loss was for the film industry (¿?) and that he died so young. I could agree with the second part. Problem is that yesterday we had an alarm because of an explosion in a nuclear storage facility not so far from where we live.

Almost nobody gave a damn about it whilst the dead of that guy made them discuss for hours. Just couldnt help finding myself thinking for a moment that it wouldnt be much of a loss if that storage facility had a leak and killed us all.

[dragonrage]

I thought the same yesterday. Everyody was just talking about this guy, what a terrible loss was for the film industry (¿?) and that he died so young. I could agree with the second part. Problem is that yesterday we had an alarm because of an explosion in a nuclear storage facility not so far from where we live.

Almost nobody gave a damn about it whilst the dead of that guy made them discuss for hours. Just couldnt help finding myself thinking for a moment that it wouldnt be much of a loss if that storage facility had a leak and killed us all.


Depressive and self-destructive. I can't say I blame you though. I myself have become numb to death; seen enough of it to make me so. When it's your time, it's your time.

R.I.P.

[Buffalobiian]

Depressive and self-destructive. I can't say I blame you though. I myself have become numb to death; seen enough of it to make me so. When it's your time, it's your time.

R.I.P.

It's why I always laugh inside whenever I hear "it was never meant to be". Generally speaking, you don't plan death.

Also when people misunderstand Life Expectancy - and think it's the age that one should live to, when it's the age at which half of you would have died by.

[Archangel]

I don't mean to be a douche but there's already 2 other threads on this subject

Merge this with the news thread?

[Sapphire]

Why the hell is everyone getting emo?

[Marik]

This one was first.

[dragonrage]

Because the end of the world is near 2012. :)

[Archangel]

Why the hell is everyone getting emo?

Because Spartacus was awesome

Also because Bill got involved and he emos things

[Buffalobiian]

Because Spartacus was awesome


More like because someone died. Then Ani said something, someone got cranky, "what about all the other people who die?", and there you have it.

FYI, I was the last one to speak out of this "everybody".

[Archangel]

You're so emo that your emoness created a paradox by emoing this thread before you even posted

No but seriously, whenever there's a chance for pseudo intelectual discussion in gotwoot you just know that shit's gonna spread for at least 2 or 3 pages long

[Marik]

Crunchyroll, TV Tokyo Sue YouTube Users for Unauthorized Anime Uploading (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-09-21/crunchyroll-tv-tokyo-sue-youtube-users-for-unauthorized-anime-uploading)

13 defendants accused of uploading Naruto, Naruto Shippūden, Bleach episodes

I can't wait to see how this plays out....

[Buffalobiian]

Crunchyroll, TV Tokyo Sue YouTube Users for Unauthorized Anime Uploading (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-09-21/crunchyroll-tv-tokyo-sue-youtube-users-for-unauthorized-anime-uploading)

13 defendants accused of uploading Naruto, Naruto Shippūden, Bleach episodes

I can't wait to see how this plays out....

I can get behind that since CR releases the episodes after 1 week anyway. It's a good enough compromise to make the shows accessible for the wider public, as well as providing a premium service for those willing to pay for it.

I guess the only issues here is that CR has exclusive world-wide streaming rights, yet doesn't have world-wide distribution meaning that in the countries where full distribution rights are owned by another company, CR can not allow streaming to those regions. Still, in law and arguably spirit, they're in the right.

How much is anime-only CR subscription anyway (if it's different from J-Drama/K-drama full subscription)

[Animeniax]

Who is providing the translations/subbing for the videos that CR streams?

[Sapphire]

I can get behind that since CR releases the episodes after 1 week anyway. You support people getting sued for stuff like this even though you download fansubs yourself?

[Marik]

How much is anime-only CR subscription anyway (if it's different from J-Drama/K-drama full subscription)

Anime Only = $6.95 a month
Drama Only = $6.95 a month
All-Access (Anime & Drama) = $11.95 a month

[Buffalobiian]

You support people getting sued for stuff like this even though you download fansubs yourself?

The meaning of support can be dispute, so I'll clarify that I don't encourage such cases/actions, but I do believe people should protect their intellectual property. If this is what they have to (or want to) do to reach that, I have no dramas with it.

And yes, I have no problems with having that ideology when I download fansubs myself. It's an option available to me, just as it's an option available for CR to sue.


Who is providing the translations/subbing for the videos that CR streams?

I don't know. I'm sure CR knows though, and that they have taken that into account when taking legal action.

edit: Thanks for the infor Marik. From memory, CR costs less than Xbox Live.

[Archangel]

Siding with Sapphi's point makes my skin crawl but you should know that you sound incredibly hypocritical Bill

[Buffalobiian]

Siding with Sapphi's point makes my skin crawl but you should know that you sound incredibly hypocritical Bill

Buying knock-off iPhones doesn't mean I can't say Apple has every right to go after people who leak the moulds and parts out of their factories. I don't see a problem with that.

All it means is that I'm acting out of personal interest, and so is the institute/corporation that owns their respective property.

[Carnage]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576599161405735224.html?m od=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopStories

I actually like the idea of vigilante justice in this case, only problem it is seemingly coming from another drug gang.

[Animeniax]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576599161405735224.html?m od=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopStories

I actually like the idea of vigilante justice in this case, only problem it is seemingly coming from another drug gang.While I don't want to go so far as to say that not all drug gangs are the same, I think not all drug gangs are the same. If they just pedal drugs to feed a demand, that's one thing. But if they grow beyond drugs to terrorize and destabilize an entire country, then something needs to be done, even if it's by another drug gang. Let's hope a lot of badguys on both sides die.

[Carnage]

While I don't want to go so far as to say that not all drug gangs are the same, I think not all drug gangs are the same. If they just pedal drugs to feed a demand, that's one thing. But if they grow beyond drugs to terrorize and destabilize an entire country, then something needs to be done, even if it's by another drug gang. Let's hope a lot of badguys on both sides die.

I agree, and lets hope most of them are the Zatas.

[Kraco]

With the Mexican government being as impotent as it is to do anything to stop the worst offenders, it's given someone else will try. I don't really know much about Mexico, but my impression of them isn't that they would forever sit on their hands waiting to be slaughtered. Naturally the first ones to grab weapons are those who already have them, but others might be inspired and follow suit before long. I don't really see how it could turn the situation any worse in the long run, because it's clear the official ways have already depleted their meager resources and failed to come up with any solution satisfying the populace.

[Edort4]

Massive flows of weapons and ammunitions into the country from the north, helped by a huge drug market to the north, and corrupt authorities. Dont think that para-militarizing the situation will do any good, au contraire.

After seing a reduction to half of fire weapons crimes from 1990 to 2001 to 7 per 100.000, it has rised from 2001 to 2010 to 25 per 100.000. Im not to much into conspiracy theories but they should analize this situation in detail, there is more to it than just thousands of crazy guys with guns, its too complex to just sit down and wait for those guys to kill each other.

Anyways I hope we dont see any "intervention" in the near future, we all now how lucrative violence is for the supplier and there are a few with "funding" needs.

[Animeniax]

Look at the picture in the article, half the guys are carrying American made M16s with noob tubes. Probably part of the stash that was sent to Mexico as part of a DOJ sting... but the batteries on the tracking devices died.

964

[Uchiha Barles]

What really needs to happen is that regular, non drug cartel citizens need to arm up and start blasting anyone who even smells like they might be part of zetas...for now, they don't need to do it to the other cartels, but they should be kept in check. You never know how a power vacuum resulting from a sudden absence of zetas might affect them and their behavior.

[Animeniax]

One professor at uni said Mexico is close to going bankrupt and then becoming a stateless country (no official government). The only good thing about this potential situation is that it would force the US government to finally do something to secure the border. Still would suck for average citizens (would no longer be a valid term in Mexico) in Mexico.

[XanBcoo]

What really needs to happen is that regular, non drug cartel citizens need to arm up and start blasting anyone who even smells like they might be part of zetas...for now, they don't need to do it to the other cartels, but they should be kept in check. You never know how a power vacuum resulting from a sudden absence of zetas might affect them and their behavior.
Or how about the easier option? Just legalizing the drugs that give them so much power through the black market.

[Animeniax]

Or how about the easier option? Just legalizing the drugs that give them so much power through the black market.They'd find other criminal enterprises like sex trafficking or counterfeit Gucci shoes. Drugs just happen to be the most profitable enterprise at this point. I think the criminality is what defines these groups, not the commodity they happen to profit from. They're called "drug gangs" because they deal in drugs, but they could just as easily have been called "Gucci gangs" if they had made their name selling counterfeiting goods.

[Carnage]

It could very well be easier to arm the average mexican and let them go on a hunt for Zetas. Find one of them, torture him of everything he knows, find first Zeta hideout, capture/torture them for everything they know; rinse and repeat until all bases and drug members are either dead or captured. Theres gotta be at most several thousand gang members, and over 100 million citizens.

[The Heretic Azazel]

They'd find other criminal enterprises like sex trafficking or counterfeit Gucci shoes. Drugs just happen to be the most profitable enterprise at this point. I think the criminality is what defines these groups, not the commodity they happen to profit from. They're called "drug gangs" because they deal in drugs, but they could just as easily have been called "Gucci gangs" if they had made their name selling counterfeiting goods.

There isn't nearly as much demand in counterfeit goods or human trafficking as there is in illegal drugs. Their money is what defines them and resorting to other avenues of profit would likely make them unsustainable.

[Animeniax]

There isn't nearly as much demand in counterfeit goods or human trafficking as there is in illegal drugs. Their money is what defines them and resorting to other avenues of profit would likely make them unsustainable.I think the brand manufacturers would disagree as to the amount of revenue lost and the Chinese have made a very lucrative black-market in counterfeit goods. Drugs are easier as a commodity than say human beings, and true the cartels would not be as large and powerful selling fake goods and people than drugs, but they'd still be around with their fingers in all sorts of crimes. The mafia and mobs of Italy and early America didn't deal in drugs and they made do.

[The Heretic Azazel]

America didn't have an insatiable need for drugs like it does now though. In China's case, where you can get the death sentence for drug possession, there isn't a big user culture there so they make money in counterfeit goods. Legalizing these drugs would not eliminate the cartels, but it would cripple them and cut down on the endless gang related violence in the streets of Mexico.

[XanBcoo]

I think the brand manufacturers would disagree as to the amount of revenue lost and the Chinese have made a very lucrative black-market in counterfeit goods. Drugs are easier as a commodity than say human beings, and true the cartels would not be as large and powerful selling fake goods and people than drugs, but they'd still be around with their fingers in all sorts of crimes. The mafia and mobs of Italy and early America didn't deal in drugs and they made do.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1017

Guess what happened to those statistics when prohibition ended.

We need to cut off their legs financially, not shoot them in the chest. I know it's easy to indulge in revenge fantasies and bloodlust when you read about Zetas skinning a woman alive and leaving her breasts nailed to a front door, but going out and introducing more violence to the situation only makes it more dangerous and complicated. When one Zeta leader is killed, another one takes his spot.

They are supported almost totally by the sale of drugs in the United States (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fas.org%2Fsgp%2Fcrs%2Frow%2FR L34215.pdf&rct=j&q=drug%20cartels%20reliance%20on%20drugs&ei=iWWHTrrJNujhiALKmp2oDA&usg=AFQjCNHIdbtJjb5d71fNY5dr6b3xFqxLRw&cad=rja) and we need to take that away from them. It's a solution that even in the worst case scenario cannot possibly make the situation worse - and we won't even consider it because I don't know why the fuck. "Morals" and "Values" or something like that.

[Y]

Full, controlled legalization of all recreational drugs in America is the only solution to the drug problem that Americans have created for the world.

[XanBcoo]

Unfortunately we are run by the kind of people who make decisions based on shaky moral arguments instead of practical solutions, and who are supported by constituents who are misinformed and easily frightened.

[Carnage]

Unfortunately we are run by the kind of people who make decisions based on shaky moral arguments instead of practical solutions, and who are supported by constituents who are misinformed and easily frightened.

What? Practicality has its roots in morals and judgement. That's why we decide things, because we have judgement and preferences. Morality is the basis for many people's preferences.

In terms of pure practicality, it could be just as easy to legalize drugs and regulate it as it is to hunt down the several thousand gang members and brutally murder them all. And if you want to say that is morally impractical, well guess what, then youre using "morals" to guide an opinion.

[Uchiha Barles]

Ah carnage...fitting name. I do understand the benefits of legalizing drugs and cutting off their legs financially. When I mentioned that the citizens should do is something, I should have said that is to be done in the absence of government intervention. While the government is either doing nothing, or taking its sweet time to do something, tits are getting posted on bulletin boards by the dozen. So yeah, let the government do whatever it's going to do to stop this. However, until they start effecting the lives of the people, let the people lay waste to any who'd terrorize the place they live in.

[XanBcoo]

In terms of pure practicality, it could be just as easy to legalize drugs and regulate it as it is to hunt down the several thousand gang members and brutally murder them all
How do you figure that?

I mean, just in terms of violence and lives lost, one option is clearly safer.

[Animeniax]

If the bad guys are willing to kill and die for one corrupt enterprise (drugs), if you remove drugs as an option, what makes you all think these guys will go get 8-to-5 jobs? They won't. They'll find other illegal activities to make a living. It may not be as profitable as drugs, but it still won't be for the betterment of society and their victims.

Like ending prohibition before it, legalizing drugs will alleviate a temporary problem, but it won't cure what ails humanity and society.

[Carnage]

How do you figure that?

I mean, just in terms of violence and lives lost, one option is clearly safer.

I mean that legalizing drugs there will still be an underground economy for them. Its not like cigarretes, where its difficult to grow tobacco. People can make these products in their homes and sell them for cheaper. Also, no matter what drug gangs wont go down without a fight. After already mercilessly killing people, what makes you think they wont try and scare others from not buying from the government/legal carriers?

Whereas arming the nation of 100 million (not everyone but imagine how many vigilantes you could rile up) to hunt down several thousand gang members...like I said, find one, torture him for information, move on to one base, then the next, badda bing badda boom. Although morals then come into the story.

[Animeniax]

Factions would form among the armed civilians and then you'd have all-out war. The largest of the gangs would take control and they'd be no better than the drug gangs who run the country now. I think cyborg assassins are a better option, because you can always hit the kill switch to deactivate them. Of course, some nerds will create viruses to take control of the cyborgs and then they will rule the country and possibly the world.

[Kraco]

The Mexican citizens should vote into power people who would establish death squads to fight the drug gangs. That would be more efficient than random civilians of no training, lacking equipment, and no sources of information (other than torturing random targets) going out on a witch hunt. It would also produce far less collateral victims and keep the civil war far more limited, though naturally it would also generate some of both. The real problem, as always, would happen after the war was finished (if it did), because such politicians with such a tool might not want to leave their seats of power anymore.

[dragonrage]

Protests on the Brooklyn Bridge.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/01/business/wall-street-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


I would attend one of these protests. Reason for my decision, after putting the country into a economic crisis, having to be bailed by the government for over 700 Billion dollars and this is just the banking institutions, the only person that was sent to jail for all this was Bernie Maydolf and he only went to prison because he stole from the rich.

Essentially America you're paying for their mistakes. You're paying for all the homes that foreclosed; are foreclosing, will be foreclosed soon, you're paying for all the bonuses those business executives got and are getting, you're paying for the bailouts. You're children will be paying for it because the National Debt is constantly on the rise. And your children's, children will be paying for their mistakes if the current policies aren't changed. All the policies that protected us from this that were put in place by President Roosevelt were reversed by DICKHEAD Bush and his band of greedy men. There is nothing now in place to protect you from this happening again. And it will, because while you sit on your ass worry about making ends meet or just sitting on your couch watching reality TV, these same men and women are hard at work fueling their greed. No one is held accountable.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

And for the rest of you out there if you think this doesn't affect you, you're wrong. Because this world is a global community; it has been for many years now. And America is the big Company that your country, your lives and the lives of your children and love ones are linked to in some way or the other. If it fails it will surely affect you in a lot worse way than you can ever imagine. There will be no market for China to make a profit off of. There will be no-one to come to your aid. As much as you hate the US you will know exactly how much you actually depend on the US.

If you have half a brain I suggest you all begin using it and stop being the sheep that you have been programed to be. Believe me you have, from what you buy, wear and even think. There has been a lot of research and censorship dedicated to it.

If you want a future you will have to fight for it. Because if you think things are bad right now you're in for a surprise.

[Kraco]

And for the rest of you out there if you think this doesn't affect you, you're wrong.

You're talking to me? I live in a country far too much in debt already and running a deficit budget yet our bright politicians have committed us to paying the debts of other countries that never worried about money at all and are in so much debt that 300 years of economic growth wouldn't allow them to get out of it. And we pay their debts by taking more debt ourselves. Of course in reality this all is nothing but transferring taxpayer's money to the big banks, because the owners of the big banks are the politicians' best friends. As much as your situation must suck, at least you don't need to watch your money flow visibly and unscrupulously out of your country to benefit others. So, yeah, at least you can comfort yourself with the thought that much of Europe is in an even deeper shit than you are.

[dragonrage]

There is no comfort in that thought my friend. And you're right I'm not going through what other people are. But I wasn't talking about an individual level. Like you have said it's affecting the country that you live in. What is being done about it, why are you just sitting back and watching?

[Kraco]

I voted a party that opposed aiding countries that had purposefully practiced disastrous financial politics as if there was no tomorrow to worry about. My own home country isn't yet in a hopeless position, but we are fast sliding in that direction, because the old parties still believe in neoliberalism even though that very system created this whole mess we are living in. The bloody thing became the new socialism that looks good on paper but in reality only creates more problems than it solves.

Edit: Naturally the party I voted is in the opposition and not in power. Goes without saying...

[Sapphire]

Protests on the Brooklyn Bridge.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/01/business/wall-street-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


I would attend one of these protests. Reason for my decision, after putting the country into a economic crisis, having to be bailed by the government for over 700 Billion dollars and this is just the banking institutions, the only person that was sent to jail for all this was Bernie Maydolf and he only went to prison because he stole from the rich.

Essentially America you're paying for their mistakes. You're paying for all the homes that foreclosed; are foreclosing, will be foreclosed soon, you're paying for all the bonuses those business executives got and are getting, you're paying for the bailouts. You're children will be paying for it because the National Debt is constantly on the rise. And your children's, children will be paying for their mistakes if the current policies aren't changed. All the policies that protected us from this that were put in place by President Roosevelt were reversed by DICKHEAD Bush and his band of greedy men. There is nothing now in place to protect you from this happening again. And it will, because while you sit on your ass worry about making ends meet or just sitting on your couch watching reality TV, these same men and women are hard at work fueling their greed. No one is held accountable.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

And for the rest of you out there if you think this doesn't affect you, you're wrong. Because this world is a global community; it has been for many years now. And America is the big Company that your country, your lives and the lives of your children and love ones are linked to in some way or the other. If it fails it will surely affect you in a lot worse way than you can ever imagine. There will be no market for China to make a profit off of. There will be no-one to come to your aid. As much as you hate the US you will know exactly how much you actually depend on the US.

If you have half a brain I suggest you all begin using it and stop being the sheep that you have been programed to be. Believe me you have, from what you buy, wear and even think. There has been a lot of research and censorship dedicated to it.

If you want a future you will have to fight for it. Because if you think things are bad right now you're in for a surprise.
Wut. People woke up all of a sudden? Nice.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDwZM_AS4&feature=feedu

[Uchiha Barles]

Oh look at that, someone advocating education before action. I fundamentally disagree with this guy when it comes to anarchy, but he has the right idea. Protesting without empowering knowledge of what to protest against and why to protest against it, is like a 3 year old smacking a rhinoceros with a sippy-cup.

[Edort4]

Well its a movement that has been going troughout countries all over the world for more than 6 months. I think they jumped in too late but maybe this will refuel other movements that expired months ago, wich is always a good thing. I have to agree with lots of what that guy said in the video and our concept of democracy should be changed in its core. Anyway I still think that even if corrupts have to pay, corruptors should be buried in the sea.

I like how it seems that a bunch of marines is willing to go to protect the protesters thats something new for me.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/news_detail.php?idx=109

[Carnage]

Haha people still think it was only a $700 billion bailout, it was much much more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932010#Emergency_an d_short-term_responses

[Marik]

According to Apple, Steve Jobs has passed away at the age of 56.

Apple says company co-founder Steve Jobs has died (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_APPLE_JOBS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

Edit: CNN: Steve Jobs, Apple founder, dies (http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/us/obit-steve-jobs/index.html?iref=BN1&hpt=hp_t1)

http://www.apple.com/stevejobs/

[Carnage]

Goodnight Sweet Prince

[Kraco]

As much as I disliked the zombie horde feature of the Apple brand and Steve Jobs's holier than Jesus attitude, he was still a bloody successful businessman and thus worthy of respect. 56 is a low age to die in the developed world. He should have had a couple of decades more.

[dragonrage]

I'm not an Apple fan, but he did a lot for this era, his innovation and execution is something to aspire too. Rest in peace Steve Jobs, thanks for everything.

[Archangel]

Did he pass away after watching the new guy sink his company to the ground with false promises?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFfm2uQbaLM

That voice system is gonna fail, calling it right now.

[poopdeville]

If you are complaining about the bailouts, you are ignorant. They weren't free money. They were loans, and the government has already recovered most of it, ahead of schedule.

Bernie Madoff had nothing to do with the crash of 2009. The crash was due to banks giving out loans to people who were fundamentally not worthy of credit, making bad assumptions about their credit worthiness, and taking on debt in foreign markets, under the assumption that the domestic debt they own would pay off their foreign debt.

If the government had not loaned the banks money, the banks would have defaulted on trillions of dollars of debt, which would have set off a massive economic catastrophe of unparalleled proportions.

Don't mistake the causes of the crash with the cause of our economic decline. They are completely different things. Most importantly, America is in an economic decline because of demographics: middle aged and old people are about to retire in massive numbers. That would have caused inflation, since they would have all pulled their savings out of the capital markets at roughly the same time. An economic "crisis", like the crash of 2009 merely accelerates the process of demographic withdrawal of funds. Don't believe me? Consider that 60% of Americans were in the labor force in 2008, and that a third of them were due to retire in the next 10 years. That means that 40% of America would have to perform the labor that 60% of America used to -- that means that every American in the labor pool would have to do the work of 1.33 people so that we could all maintain our standard of living. A 33% increase in necessary effort, just to stand still!

If you want to blame anybody, blame your grandparents for having too many kids, and your parents for not having enough to support them.

[Carnage]

If you are complaining about the bailouts, you are ignorant. They weren't free money. They were loans, and the government has already recovered most of it, ahead of schedule.

If the government had not loaned the banks money, the banks would have defaulted on trillions of dollars of debt, which would have set off a massive economic catastrophe of unparalleled proportions.



While you are correct in that the bailout was necessary, and we would have had a COMPLETE financial collapse had the loans not been given out, the problem here isnt that the money itself was lent out to the banks. The Fed did the right thing to prevent another Great Depression.

The problem is that:

1.) The fact in itself the Banks WERE too big to fail.
2.) Many bankers responsible were allowed to keep their jobs, and were given the chance to pay back their loans. What frustrates Americans is that the average person is not given this opportunity to pay back debts at near 0% interest rates. The majority of the country has to suffer under crushing debt. The moral/fair course of action would have been to nationalize the banks and fire the heads responsible.




Don't mistake the causes of the crash with the cause of our economic decline. They are completely different things. Most importantly, America is in an economic decline because of demographics: middle aged and old people are about to retire in massive numbers. That would have caused inflation, since they would have all pulled their savings out of the capital markets at roughly the same time. An economic "crisis", like the crash of 2009 merely accelerates the process of demographic withdrawal of funds. Don't believe me? Consider that 60% of Americans were in the labor force in 2008, and that a third of them were due to retire in the next 10 years. That means that 40% of America would have to perform the labor that 60% of America used to -- that means that every American in the labor pool would have to do the work of 1.33 people so that we could all maintain our standard of living. A 33% increase in necessary effort, just to stand still!


The crash IS the cause of our massive unemployment. Demographics isnt a cause for demographic decline in this country (unlike China's current predicament). The matter of fact is that unemployment is worst for young people; if old people begin to retire, then that will be great news for the younger as well as rising work force. The retiring workforce would be replaced by an even larger workforce by your theory. We wont have to do the work of 1.33 people because we already have such stark unemployment, millions of people would love to pick up the slap. Work per person wouldnt decrease.

The reason it will be tough to go back to 3-5% unemployment is a combination decades of our tariff policies, the fact that we've become a service sector economy, and the fact that income is ridiculously unevenly distributed.

1.) Low tariffs and service economy are tied together: We have become a service sector economy, and with the crash and improving technology, we've suddenly realized that we dont need all so many people providing services when growth is no longer 3% per year. As for increasing manufacturing employment: since labor is so cheap in Asia, Latin America, and Africa, there is no way we will ever secure those manufacturing jobs back from them without either giving immense incentives to our businesses for hiring here or raising our tariffs so that it becomes a complete disadvantage for businesses to hire elsewhere. The problem for giving incentives is as I said, they would likely have to be extremely large. How is a $7 minimum wage going to compete with a $0.50 wage? Im pulling $0.50 out of my ass I'll admit, but do you honestly believe sweatshop kids are pulling dollars per hour? And if we increase tariffs, other countries may raise theirs in response, and import prices will rice. Not only that, but if it costs more to produce when paying workers higher wages, then product prices will rise dramatically, either raising the cost of living or foregoing extreme inflation. All this unless the business owner decides to take a hit for the team and pay the difference in wages out of his own pocket, rather than raising product prices to compensate for higher wages. Which brings me to my next point:

2.) The disparity in income between the top 1% and bottom 99% have distorted demand and supply, as well as standards of living. When millionaires and billionaires hold the vast majority of wealth, dont pump that money into our economy but others, and rig debts/the system so that they retain most of the economic output, very little money will trickle down to the masses. Since the the majority of the country no longer has enough jobs or pay to spend leisurely on products, this curbs growth and demand. The government cant provide jobs because it doesnt have the revenues: Again, mostly because the wealthy pay lower tax rates while retaining most of the wealth. At the same time, large government spending in more services like medicine and social security dont help our employment situation too much, when that money could be used to be putting people to work or giving them sufficient education to provide more service sector jobs both locally and globally.





If you want to blame anybody, blame your grandparents for having too many kids, and your parents for not having enough to support them.

I will agree with this to the extent that people who could not afford kids should not have had them or many in the first place, and that slowing down the population growth will help employment since we will no longer have manufacturing jobs, and there arent enough service sector jobs to go around.

[Dark Dragon]

Actually that's only part of the problem.

We're just now starting to feel the effects of bad legislation created many years ago. There are argument on both side that blamed and defended Jimmy Carter's CRA, but ultimately no one can deny that it created an environment that allows banks to make bad loan. A Corporation is by nature an entity that strive to maximize profit and minimize cost, so you really shouldn't create a bunch of loop holes that allows for them to make a ton of money and get away with it then expects for everyone to not abuse it.

Ultimately, i don't understand the point of this protest and it seems like a lot of them really don't know what they want. There is simply nothing anyone can do to "fix" the economy. Rallying and asking the government to fix the problems when they created it by interfering in the first place just seems really counterproductive.

You can put the blame on all the bank executives and send them to jail.

Then what? another feel good solution? giving the politician another card they can play come next election? They're not realistically at fault, at least not in the way that most of these people thinks. Rising in protests and rallies when you really don't know what to fight for is worst than doing nothing at all. Those civil right activist in the 60's? they were single minded in their fight and know EXACTLY what they wanted to strive for and that's why it was successful. You can't seem to get more than 3 of these protesters together and get them to give the same answer as to what they want. The only thing worst than a fool is a fool with a mission.

[Carnage]

While I agree its stupid to have a protest without a concise cause and good leadership (i.e. this stupid protest) there is a solution as i mentioned before, although highly unlikely to ever happen because of our fear of "soshulism" and lack of actual leadership. Nationalize the banks, start giving out more loans to U.S. business at lower interest rates (the near 0% interest rate is for banks, not common people). Then get growth going. Adding a large stimulus (thats not bullshit half tax rebates/cuts...and much larger than $700 billion) for jobs in infrastructure, education, and spending would spur our demand and and get things moving again. At the same time, more spending would have to mean more cuts, which would be in areas the American people will be anal about, i.e. military, social security, and medicare.

[Kraco]

You can put the blame on all the bank executives and send them to jail.

If I was a dictator, I would let the banks collapse. Because if they knew they could, they actually wouldn't. Now the banking industry is spared from the basic concept of a venture, and they know it full well. Any other company would simply disappear after a bad choice, but banks won't be allowed to and thus they pump money into senseless targets, knowing they are safe one way or another. If their plans fail, the executives know their best friends the neoliberalistic politicians will save their miserable skins.

[Archangel]

If I was a dictator, I would let the banks collapse.

/notices the red username

What do you mean if?

[Dark Dragon]

That really comes down to the core of the problem. Politician interfering in business when they really shouldn't.

Laissez-faire is not perfect by any mean, but it has been proven to work many times, as long as it is allow to function as intended. The public can bring a company down quicker than any governmental entity.

[Sapphire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT8YW3cIAKg&feature=feedu

Great demands guise.

[dragonrage]

If you are complaining about the bailouts, you are ignorant. They weren't free money. They were loans, and the government has already recovered most of it, ahead of schedule.

It was free money don't fool yourself. And yes the banks were involved in creating our economic decline by selling loans to people that couldn't afford it or weren't qualified for it. B, C banking, giving people and businesses loans that they wouldn't be qualified for at a higher than normal and variable interest rates. ARM loans and mortgages that were used to sell the "American dream" to people (own a home with a white picket fence). Sure for the first five years things were okay then after that your mortgage would be sky high. All of this happened while the bank projected massive profits and shelled out a lot of big fat bonuses. Their own greed fail them.

It created a bubbled that was doom to burst and destroy everything. The housing markets in some places went up 400% than they were originally valued. What are they valued now?

This was all possible because of the policies that were reversed by the Bush administration and what put in place was basically a smoke screen.

Want to know what all this caused? A lot of people had to foreclosed on their homes and businesses or sell or have it adjusted some how. This mean all their credit is worthless and their life savings gone. Where is your consumer market now?





Don't mistake the causes of the crash with the cause of our economic decline. They are completely different things. Most importantly, America is in an economic decline because of demographics: middle aged and old people are about to retire in massive numbers. That would have caused inflation, since they would have all pulled their savings out of the capital markets at roughly the same time. An economic "crisis", like the crash of 2009 merely accelerates the process of demographic withdrawal of funds. Don't believe me? Consider that 60% of Americans were in the labor force in 2008, and that a third of them were due to retire in the next 10 years. That means that 40% of America would have to perform the labor that 60% of America used to -- that means that every American in the labor pool would have to do the work of 1.33 people so that we could all maintain our standard of living. A 33% increase in necessary effort, just to stand still!

If you want to blame anybody, blame your grandparents for having too many kids, and your parents for not having enough to support them.

Why is it then that about 10 % of the population give or take a few is unemployed right now?

All these war which huge sums of money is being spent to be waged and no return to the taxpayers is taking it's toll.

The lack of investment in the education of the children of America. While other countries are heavily investing in education, America is cutting cost. No wonder this country as a whole is getting dumber and dumber.

The lack of investment in America, outsourcing of jobs. The service industry can only pay so much taxes. People favor a better bottom line today than a prosperous one tomorrow and the day after that. There is no American pride anymore. (Capitalism and greed all the way)

Inept leaders; the people that are supposed to be looking out for the country are only concerned about looking out for themselves.

What is all the greed and green going to get you when it no longer holds value.

[Edort4]

I mean no offense but I believe that lot of people talk without knowing shit, and the worst is that they really think they are smart, sagacious and seeing behind the veil when they just have half assed notions of global economics and global geopolitics.

It has been the greatest robbery of history. Just facts. Credit Default Swaps. Up banks down states.

975

In the case of the USA they just kept printing money and the dollar being the reference currency it had affected almost everything. Of course the real inflation is just ludicrous. And the main problem is that for almost 30 years they have been witness to a continous and massive delocalization and dismantlement of productive fabric. like many other 1st world countries. This is more argumentation than fact.

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/10-real-unemployment-one-out-of-five-in-us/

[Assertn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT8YW3cIAKg&feature=feedu

Great demands guise.
I like these demands more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A&feature=share

[Dark Dragon]

I mean no offense but I believe that lot of people talk without knowing shit, and the worst is that they really think they are smart, sagacious and seeing behind the veil when they just have half assed notions of global economics and global geopolitics.

Pretty much most of the stuff that's going to happen here is purely for the sake of discussion or venting.

If people were really serious about doing anything, they wouldn't choose an anime forum with an audience that comprise of a few dozens people scattered across several different countries as a method of spreading "the message".

[dragonrage]

Pretty much most of the stuff that's going to happen here is purely for the sake of discussion or venting.

If people were really serious about doing anything, they wouldn't choose an anime forum with an audience that comprise of a few dozens people scattered across several different countries as a method of spreading "the message".

What you say is true. But what proof do you have to say that this is the only medium the topic is being discussed on? What proof do you have that something isn't being done.

True the members of gotwoot are few and scattered but it is happening in their countries too.


*/end vent*

[Dark Dragon]

It was a response to Edort4 comment to point out that it's unnecessary to be picky about the level of proficiency in economic and politic when all this boil down to just hot air.

I really don't have any proof as to whether or not something is being done, merely just common sense.

If i were someone trying to accomplish something important, making long posts on an anime forum arguing with anonymous people would be pretty low on my list of priorities.

Also, it would be simply more effective to show me proof that something is being done rather than ask questions about whether or not i know if something is actually being done.

If you are actually doing something, kudos to you. I'm pretty sure then that any post you make on this forum is merely for the purpose of discussion and not because you expects any fruitful results.

[Lucifus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HiFnUteCrE

So, anyone else seen this yet? This is the first time a video has ever sparked such a genuine feeling of horror, disgust, & rage. I want to hurt something. -_-

[Marik]

So, anyone else seen this yet?

Yeah, it was posted in the Internet thread.

http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/17137-The-Internet?p=499664&viewfull=1#post499664

[Archangel]

I guess that in retrospective this thread might have been more appropriate choice

[Sapphire]

Guy has 39 Wives, 94 Children and Lives in a 100 Room House (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051433/Ziona-Chan-39-wives-94-children-33-grandchildren.html)

[bagandscalpel]

Guy has 39 Wives, 94 Children and Lives in a 100 Roo House (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051433/Ziona-Chan-39-wives-94-children-33-grandchildren.html)

Interesting read. Good to see the patriarch is capable of handling his sizable clan.

Still: "As the world's population nears seven billion meet the man who hasn't helped!"

The hell is up with this headline? I don't need the paper to make judgments for me.

[Buffalobiian]

I value quality over quantity. That guy should spend more effort picking a decent flower rather than gathering weeds.

[rockmanj]

I value quality over quantity. That guy should spend more effort picking a decent flower rather than gathering weeds.

Yea, not the fittest group I have seen.

[Animeniax]

Human population will reach 7 billion soon:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/26/the-buzz-behind-7-billion-people-a-milestone-and-a-warning/?&hpt=hp_c2

And the Earth weeps.

[dragonrage]

Kinda ironic and fitting if you just consider how many people from this forum alone were born in October.

[UChessmaster]

MJ`s doctor found guilty. (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45161548/ns/today-entertainment/)

[Archangel]

What a bunch of bulshit

[Carnage]

What a bunch of bulshit

God Bless America.

[Animeniax]

What a bunch of bulshitWhy is it bullshit? While I do think there's excessive litigation in the US, I think doctors and other "professionals" should be held more accountable for their (mal)practices. Though sometimes they are in the same bad situation as police... damned if you do, damned if you don't, and you get sued for doing your job.

[UChessmaster]

Not exactly news worthy but i couldn`t find a better place to post it, i JUST realized this morning that i have a niece that just became Miss Puerto Rico 2012.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/301153_10150300024170989_719230988_8111458_2097482 833_n.jpg

[Buffalobiian]

Surely you mean 2011, right?

[Archangel]

She's so fucking hot they gave her 2012 as well.

[UChessmaster]

i THINK it`s 2012, she`ll compete in Miss Universe 2012.

[Archangel]

So... any more pictures?

[UChessmaster]

Sure why not.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/303166_10150297687390989_719230988_8100991_8027596 72_n.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/268473_10150227225185989_719230988_7530698_3446246 _n.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/216973_10150152187225989_719230988_6891625_4133889 _n.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/298238_10150256304165989_719230988_7817488_4080490 _n.jpg

[Sapphire]

Good for her!!

I LOVEE that one piece.

[Buffalobiian]

Good for her!!

I LOVEE that one piece.

Is it closer to a corset?

You probably wouldn't want to swim in it.

I probably would.

[Sapphire]

You are thinking of the Japanese word for bathing suit. Everywhere else one piece just means one piece of clothing.

[Archangel]

Sure why not.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/303166_10150297687390989_719230988_8100991_8027596 72_n.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/268473_10150227225185989_719230988_7530698_3446246 _n.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/216973_10150152187225989_719230988_6891625_4133889 _n.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/298238_10150256304165989_719230988_7817488_4080490 _n.jpg

My dick appreciates this offering.

[darkshadow]

I would wreck the shit out of your niece >.>, congratz I guess?
If you didn't know does that mean you guys aren't really close?

[Carnage]

Mother of god UChessmaster these are the best posts I've ever seen in this thread.

[UChessmaster]

I would wreck the shit out of your niece >.>, congratz I guess?
If you didn't know does that mean you guys aren't really close?

We`re not close, my family tree is a gigantic mess, i became aware of her winning this morning on facebook, my other brothers in Puerto Rico are close to her though.

[rockmanj]

We`re not close, my family tree is a gigantic mess, i became aware of her winning this morning on facebook, my other brothers in Puerto Rico are close to her though.

Good job exposing your niece's images to these degenerates.

[Kraco]

Good job exposing your niece's images to these degenerates.

I believe becoming a Miss anything equals to willingly releasing your images to millions of degenerates. So, I hardly see a difference.

[shinta|hikari]

It is about the level of degeneration, I guess?

[Sapphire]

That corset is so pretty. *cries*

[Animeniax]

Older news, but did any hockey fans know that on Sept 7 of this year, a plane crash in Russia killed 26 pro European hockey players, including former NHL players such as Ruslan Salei, Pavol Demitra, and Josef Vasichek. A guy I knew once joked that this kind of thing didn't happen more often... a plane or bus crash that wipes out an entire sports team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_plane_crash

[rockmanj]

Older news, but did any hockey fans know that on Sept 7 of this year, a plane crash in Russia killed 26 pro European hockey players, including former NHL players such as Ruslan Salei, Pavol Demitra, and Josef Vasichek. A guy I knew once joked that this kind of thing didn't happen more often... a plane or bus crash that wipes out an entire sports team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_plane_crash

Pretty sad...

Oh, I was in the news recently: http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=194662

[Splash!]

Older news, but did any hockey fans know that on Sept 7 of this year, a plane crash in Russia killed 26 pro European hockey players, including former NHL players such as Ruslan Salei, Pavol Demitra, and Josef Vasichek. A guy I knew once joked that this kind of thing didn't happen more often... a plane or bus crash that wipes out an entire sports team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_plane_crash

I think most hockey fans would know about this. It is pretty sad. I was a big fan of Pavol Demitra.

[Animeniax]

I think most hockey fans would know about this. It is pretty sad. I was a big fan of Pavol Demitra.I used to be a bigger hockey fan until Bettman ruined it with rule changes and the wussification of the sport.

Sadly, I only found out about the plane crash when I was looking up information about the death of Derek Boogaard. He was one of the fan favorite fighters in hockey while he played.

[Buffalobiian]

You know, I've always wondered why passenger planes, with all the safety slides and oxygen masks, don't give people parachutes.

Only problem would be for someone to think it's a good idea to jump out of the plane for fun, but hey... sailors get life jackets...


Oh, I was in the news recently: http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/...aspx?id=194662

This year’s theme, “Innovators,” fit with the group’s goal to spark interest in green initiatives among people from a range of backgrounds, said board member Michael Harrington, who helped host the event.

The first thing I noticed was your name (since I was looking for it), but the next thing was that the author of the article misused plural verbs in that sentence. :P

[rockmanj]

You know, I've always wondered why passenger planes, with all the safety slides and oxygen masks, don't give people parachutes.

Only problem would be for someone to think it's a good idea to jump out of the plane for fun, but hey... sailors get life jackets...




The first thing I noticed was your name (since I was looking for it), but the next thing was that the author of the article misused plural verbs in that sentence. :P

I could see how most people would make that mistake; that nonwithstanding, it was a pretty good piece on the event. People really enjoyed it and got to learn about some cool environmental projects.

[Death BOO Z]

America, what's wrong with you?


Riverside County, California To Charge Prisoners $142 Per Day Of Their Stay (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/riverside-county-california-prisons_n_1085983.html)

my local paper also mentions that some prisons are trying to remove the 'last meal' before executions.

so, what the hell is wrong with that country?

[Animeniax]

America, what's wrong with you?


Riverside County, California To Charge Prisoners $142 Per Day Of Their Stay (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/riverside-county-california-prisons_n_1085983.html)

my local paper also mentions that some prisons are trying to remove the 'last meal' before executions.

so, what the hell is wrong with that country?A lot of prisoners are destitute/homeless so good luck collecting that fee. Of course, if it's a white-collar prison, they could certainly make some money this way.

They removed the "last meal" in Texas just this year because some idiot requested enough food to feed 3 people, then didn't eat any of it before he was executed.

[Carnage]

I dont see whats wrong with this at all, why should tax payers be paying for criminals? In all honesty, they should be working off their stay and costs, prisons are a large cost for cities.

[XanBcoo]

I dont see whats wrong with this at all, why should tax payers be paying for criminals? In all honesty, they should be working off their stay and costs, prisons are a large cost for cities.
Actually it's an amazingly lucrative business that profits from overpopulating itself with minorities (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289)

Edit:
I like how most of the other suggestions are blatant violations of human rights. Food? Beds?? Who needs beds? They're just prisoners. They had their chance, amirite?!

The top comment in DBZ's article sums it up pretty well.

[Carnage]

Actually it's an amazingly lucrative business that profits from overpopulating itself with minorities (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289)

Edit:
I like how most of the other suggestions are blatant violations of human rights. Food? Beds?? Who needs beds? They're just prisoners. They had their chance, amirite?!

The top comment in DBZ's article sums it up pretty well.

We can argue as to whether or not the prisoners deserve to be there in the first place, which isnt what Im getting out. Thats a corruption in our legal system itself; I personally dont believe prisons should even be private businesswa, they should all be run by the states and federal government.

My point was, assuming the prisoners are in fact guilty, that they shouldnt be supported on our tax payer dollars for committing a crime. It doesnt make any sense. Imagine a convict rapes your daughter, and then gets sent to prison. How do you feel that you'll be paying for his bed, food, utlities, etc for the next however many years? Cant do the time, dont do the crime; if you violate the rules of society or another human's rights, why should you receive the same human rights? Now obviously there are varying levels of crime and Im not saying all prisoners deserve the same amount of rights stripped away, but I dont think monetarily paying your living expenses as well as the the state back for your crime is vulger.

[Assertn]

I dont see whats wrong with this at all, why should tax payers be paying for criminals? In all honesty, they should be working off their stay and costs, prisons are a large cost for cities.
$142 per day comes out to over $4000 a month. $4000 a month to share a cell and toilet with another inmate, share showers with dozens of others, and a mandated curfew?

[Carnage]

$142 per day comes out to over $4000 a month. $4000 a month to share a cell and toilet with another inmate, share showers with dozens of others, and a mandated curfew?

And to pay back the state for the inconvenience of your crime?

Edit: Which you shouldn't have committed in the first place?

[Splash!]

If a prisoner has that much money, why not slap them with some hefty fines along with the prison sentence? It makes more sense to come up with a figure based on the damage a particular criminal has done to society, than to just charge everyone an absurdly high rent, regardless of the seriousness of their crimes.

And yeah, good luck trying to get the money out of those who don't want to pay it. What will consequences be? Longer prison sentences resulting in an even greater amount of 'unpaid' rent?

Just doesn't seem like a well thought out idea.

[Death BOO Z]

the system:

crime happens.
prisoners are worked for private companies.
private companies let go of employes and use inmates.
large companies don't pay taxes. and unemployed people also can't pay much.
budget cuts, both in economic support, and prison budget.
poor people turn to crime. prisons use their inmates as a working force.
"CRIME FRENZY!" headlines in newspapers, legislative actions are taken to make crime less "appealing" - longer sentences, worse conditions.
we have more people in prisons, with less opportunity to get out of the crime circle (less prison education, less psychological help, less social workers).
prisons need money, so the inmates are sent out to work for large companies.
large companies make money, while the blue-collar workers can't compete with prison-work.
Less Federal money, more crime, more prison, less federal money.
rinse repeat for twenty years.
2011 - OWS.

[Assertn]

And to pay back the state for the inconvenience of your crime?

Edit: Which you shouldn't have committed in the first place?

Paying back whoever you violated is/should be handled in the courts separately from whatever time you're serving. If a guy gets hit with a 10-year sentence for possession of hard drugs or child porn or something, who was inconvenienced that deserves to fine this guy half a million dollars?

[Animeniax]

Paying back whoever you violated is/should be handled in the courts separately from whatever time you're serving. If a guy gets hit with a 10-year sentence for possession of hard drugs or child porn or something, who was inconvenienced that deserves to fine this guy half a million dollars?Society is inconvenienced when people commit crimes. Is the preservation of our society not worth punishing the criminal for all he's got?

Rough estimate of how much it costs per year to imprison someone (in Texas) is around $40k. So $142/day is fair. If they can't afford that, then put them to work... the dangerous stuff others wouldn't willingly do.

[Archangel]

Society is inconvenienced when people commit crimes. Is the preservation of our society not worth punishing the criminal for all he's got?

Rough estimate of how much it costs per year to imprison someone (in Texas) is around $40k. So $142/day is fair. If they can't afford that, then put them to work... the dangerous stuff others wouldn't willingly do.
I thought Lincoln abolished slavery around your parts.

[Carnage]

Paying back whoever you violated is/should be handled in the courts separately from whatever time you're serving. If a guy gets hit with a 10-year sentence for possession of hard drugs or child porn or something, who was inconvenienced that deserves to fine this guy half a million dollars?

Well,:

a.) I didnt want to get into this part of the argument because I mentioned in my second post, this involves the question as to whether or not the prisoner deserves to be in prison in the first place, which is an issue of legality. My point is that I find it foolish to assume it ridiculous that guilty people should have to pay for their own fare, as well as toward the state. The question of what they are guilty for, or how guilty they are, is another matter entirely. Im really just saying that if a person in a hypothetically just legal system is guilty, then he should have his human rights taken away to the extent of how bad his crime is. Youre question is basically asking if the person in that case is actually guilty, and if he should pay a specific amount of money (half a million) for that supposed crime, which is not what Im attacking.

b.) If we REALLY want to be nitpicky about the specific case in your example, I could say that perpetuating the act of producing child porn (which harms the child) and the possibility of harming others is one reason to punish the defendant. While on hard drugs (I dont really buy this at the moment) the only reason I could assume for it to be considered illegal and harmful is the possibility of harming others while under the influence. Again especailly for the latter case, its a question of whether or not it should really be payable by prison in the first place, or just fine-able in the first place, or not even illegal at all. The assumption for all of these is that there is a good reason for why these things are illegal in the first place.

[Animeniax]

I thought Lincoln abolished slavery around your parts.It's not slavery if they owe money to the state... it's working off your debt. Not much different from what everyone else does, ie the rat race, the daily grind. Might as well put all of that idle energy to use, and the prison system can be self-sustaining.

[Death BOO Z]

Rough estimate of how much it costs per year to imprison someone (in Texas) is around $40k. So $142/day is fair. If they can't afford that, then put them to work... the dangerous stuff others wouldn't willingly do.

USA Median yearly Income: 43550$ (source (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01_028.htm)). nearly half of the American people (who worked year round, full time jobs) can't afford to pay back the state for staying in prison.

do you really expect a guy in prison to be able to make that kind of money, considering he gets 0.25$ an hour?
which rounds off to 160,000 working hours (number of hours in a year? 8760) even if the 0.25$ is incorrect, unless it's almost 15$, it's not going to happen.

prisons, by definition, can't be self supporting. slave camps, on the other hand, can be.

[Carnage]

Why shouldnt prisons be slave camps? Why do criminals deserve the same rights? They broke their contract with society.

[Sapphire]

Do you think someone should become a slave for something innocuous like downloading anime or smoking weed?

These things are considered "crimes" in today's day and age.

[rockmanj]

Prison labor basically is slave labor, but there is something in the 13th amendment that establishes it as something different. I may not agree with everything here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289 but I cannot support any system of slavery (prison or not), especially since it affects certain groups at a suspiciously higher rate.

[XanBcoo]

Why shouldnt prisons be slave camps? Why do criminals deserve the same rights? They broke their contract with society.
Do you even know what prisons are for?

Let me give you a hint, they're not to make you feel better by punishing someone for an imagined crime of raping your imaginary daughter.

Crime is not the cause of a problem, it's the symptom.

[Carnage]

Do you even know what prisons are for?

Let me give you a hint, they're not to make you feel better by punishing someone for an imagined crime of raping your imaginary daughter.

Crime is not the cause of a problem, it's the symptom.

Well I can see where youre going with this, in how prisons should rehabilitate the criminal, but not everyone shares that opinion. First and foremost it should separate criminals from society. Then after that, one can debate whether or not it is for retribution (my side) or rehabilitation (Im assuming your side). And youre ignoring the fact that prisons that arent privately run are a huge cost on their communities; Again, even if I shouldnt (although in my opinion I should) feel better about my daughter's rapist being punished, should I feel better about paying for his living expenses for x amount of time, no matter how shitty they are?


@Sapphire: reread my posts.

[shinta|hikari]

Laws suck, but are necessary.

While I am not willing to forgive certain crimes, there are those that I don't even consider crimes at all.

Rapists and murderers should be killed off though.

[Sapphire]

Rapists and murderers should be killed off though.

It's hard to prove a murder, though. So many people have hastily gotten the death penalty. I'm not sure I believe the amount of innocents (even 1 innocent) that would be killed off is worth it.

[shinta|hikari]

Ah, indeed. When I said that, I meant actual murderers and rapists. Proving them belongs to the realm of law, and like I said, they suck.

[Buffalobiian]

if you violate the rules of society or another human's rights, why should you receive the same human rights?

An eye for an eye? This line of thinking justifies the stripping of someone's rights, or performing deeds otherwise deemed wrong, based on the circumstance. Put capital punishment in here too.

If you want prisons to be more sustainable, get them t work for the prison, not hired out to some company for 25c/hr. Once a prison earns any profit, it's broken.

[Carnage]

An eye for an eye? This line of thinking justifies the stripping of someone's rights, or performing deeds otherwise deemed wrong, based on the circumstance. Put capital punishment in here too.

Yes, it does justify stripping rights, I've been pretty clear about that. And yes, I do believe deeds should be based on circumstance. Personally it doesn't make sense to believe something is morally wrong just because its indoctrinated into us. When I say killing is usually irl, I imply that the person being killed is innocent. I dont believe killing guilty people is wrong (again: murderers and rapists). Yes, I obviously dont think capital punishment is a big deal if the defendant is proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty. Most people in this thread so far dont seem to understand the difference between thinking that a punishment system is immoral and thinking that the legal system is flawed. Yes downloading media illegally and using illegal substances is of a different scale, which is why the legality of those issues, and the prison sentences carried out should be reconsidered, not the prison system itself (with respect to those cases).




If you want prisons to be more sustainable, get them t work for the prison, not hired out to some company for 25c/hr. Once a prison earns any profit, it's broken.

Again, I've already said this myself, prisons shouldnt be privately run. The prisoner's work should go back to the tax payer/government budget.

[Animeniax]

It's hard to prove a murder, though. So many people have hastily gotten the death penalty. I'm not sure I believe the amount of innocents (even 1 innocent) that would be killed off is worth it.Most murders occur between people who know each other, and most often with witnesses. Learned this in criminology class. It's not that hard to prove, the question is what kind of punishment should someone receive for something done in the heat of the moment and without thinking. What are the chances it will happen again, because that's one of the primary reasons for imprisonment, besides retribution.

[rockmanj]

Most murders occur between people who know each other, and most often with witnesses. Learned this in criminology class. It's not that hard to prove, the question is what kind of punishment should someone receive for something done in the heat of the moment and without thinking. What are the chances it will happen again, because that's one of the primary reasons for imprisonment, besides retribution.

I agree with this post. I do think that capital punishment as a whole should be abolished in the US, as I also think that even if 1% of the judgments are wrong, it is too high a price to pay. I think another huge problem with our prison system is that a lot of prisoners have mental problems. In fact, it extends to outside prisons (like my former neighborhood). I think a combination of treatment and retribution would be the ideal system, and for those that really cannot function in society, permanent separation from society would be appropriate.

Yea, heat of the moment crimes are tricky. If you were to kill someone that just killed your parents (or loved one), I don't necessarily think you should be executed for that. I am not for violent retribution or Sharia or anything, but it is understandable.

[Assertn]

In somewhat related news, apparently California is going to run out of room in all its prisons by next year.

[Death BOO Z]

the system is entirely broken. so it works perfectly to feed itself.
more prisoners, less taxes, less state prisons and post-prison care (social workers, parole officers), more private prisons (outsourced to different states!), who push for harsher laws and minimum sentences.

[Animeniax]

In somewhat related news, apparently California is going to run out of room in all its prisons by next year.California will run out of money well before that. And that's not even factoring in a potential big earthquake that devastates the area and costs billions in damage. Enjoy the sunny weather while you can.

[dragonrage]

There are around 2 million people in prison within the United states that are on record ( not counting military detention centers and so on) It cost about 23,000 dollars per year per prisoner, according to a 2001 report and that doesn't include whatever health care they are given, maintenance, material, food and all those knick-knacks.

The money has to come from somewhere. The system isn't perfect but it does cost to maintain it. Times are tough.

http://www.quora.com/How-much-money-does-one-prisoner-cost-per-year

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aaprisonpop.htm

[Animeniax]

In Texas, most of our college tuition goes to maintaining state prisons. Not sure about other states.

[XanBcoo]

Too bad we produce most of those prisoners by refusing to spend any money on education.

Texas is embarrassingly bad at educating about 10% of the nation's people.

[dragonrage]

not to mention the lack of investment and outsourcing of jobs.

[rockmanj]

I was reading about this on the twitter last night: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-15/u-s-mayors-crack-down-on-occupy-wall-street.html

[Animeniax]

I was reading about this on the twitter last night: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-15/u-s-mayors-crack-down-on-occupy-wall-street.html

That was a confusing read since both the paper and the mayor are named Bloomberg. I wonder about the truth of claims that homeless and street youth were moving into these encampments and causing trouble. Sounds like it could be bureaucratic seeds of dissent and justification for breaking up the OWS protest. Of course, the criminal element tends to creep into any human dealings so it may be true.

[rockmanj]

That was a confusing read since both the paper and the mayor are named Bloomberg. I wonder about the truth of claims that homeless and street youth were moving into these encampments and causing trouble. Sounds like it could be bureaucratic seeds of dissent and justification for breaking up the OWS protest. Of course, the criminal element tends to creep into any human dealings so it may be true.

There are probably elements of both, but I question anything that just quotes "officials". It kind of reeks of the people in power making shit up. I hate to say this, but twitter is giving a lot of insight into what is really going on with these movements. It does not seem like there were any serious problems (although I did read about the police sending drunks to the occupied sites to cause trouble). The 'officials" would likely say otherwise.

[Ryllharu]

Fetid "living" conditions, nearby business owners furious that their bathrooms are being occupied and trashed (because I'm sure the protesters made sure they were paying customers instead of walking in, taking a shit, and walking right back out </sarcasm>), many rumors (more than one city too) of protest leadership discouraging women from reporting sexual assaults and rapes, long-term homeless people "joining" the movements, drug dealers frequenting the encampments (this one is by far the most likely to actually be occurring given the demographic of the protesters).

I'm all for the crackdowns. That park needed to get cleaned.

These are the same bunch of morons who tried to set up generators before the fire department and police took them away from them. It's not even a matter of, "boo hoo, elitist entitled hipsters wanna charge their macbooks and ipods." It's a matter of Carbon Monoxide is denser than air. It spreads along the ground, which the protesters happen to be sleeping on. I'd be surprised if any of the protesters even knew the inherent dangers of operating a generator, much less how to actually run one. That's how people die.

Tactically, the way the police removed them was a stroke of genius. They avoided a lot more personal harm and damage that could have occurred had they done it any differently.

Why was it done at 1am? Because protesters are sleeping, groggy, or incredibly drowsy from staying up all night. That's safer for the police, and a lot safer for the protesters.

Why was the media barred from entering or flying over? Again, safety. Safety for members of the media, likely to get caught up in things should they turn violent. The side effect of media coverage is that anarchists not connected with the movement are more likely to show up and start a riot, partly for the attention (especially with media coverage).


The whole movement is starting to have public opinion turn against them. A large part of this is their ridiculous demands (85% of which equates to "free money, free entitlements for all!"). The other is that they are doing all of this wrong.

What they should be doing: Wake up. Walk to gathering site, start protesting. Eat lunch at a local business. Resume protesting. Go home when it gets dark. Take a shower. Eat a nutritious dinner. Sleep in a warm bed. Repeat.

What they are doing: Having a free for all, denying other citizens the use of a public space, camping illegally (camping in a municipal park is illegal pretty much everywhere in the US), and then whining when they are about to get arrested, or temporarily (a fact that was conveyed to them multiple times for more than a month) removed for their own health and safety.

Getting arrested for a silly reason is the primary goal of a sit in. That's the part that gets you sympathy and attention. Acting civilly and getting arrested for it is how you get things to change. Whining, crying and (often violently) resisting arrest and removal doesn't help anyone. The police are just doing their job.

[rockmanj]

Kim Jong Il has died. (http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/18/4131690/north-korea-says-its-leader-kim.html)

[Animeniax]

Sounds like he's going into hiding. Was he sick recently or something?

[Sapphire]

He's been on the verge of death for the past few years.

[rockmanj]

Sounds like he's going into hiding. Was he sick recently or something?

He has been in poor health and had strokes in the past few months. I am not sure how much will change over there, as the country was being run by military leaders (many of whom were related to him).

[complich8]

If only Hitch could have hung on for two or three more days ...

But yeah, realistically, just because the Dear Leader is dead doesn't mean that his successor will be any less of a bastard. Only time will tell. Nevertheless, it's at least a chance for a reboot of DPRK diplomacy... we live in interesting times.

[Kraco]

Maybe if the successor was any less of a bastard, there'd be internal power struggle among the generals, creating instability in the country. However, since North Koreans show zilch will to rebel, it'd still be no good. That nation is doomed for eternity unless another world war happens and it's dragged in.

[rockmanj]

Maybe if the successor was any less of a bastard, there'd be internal power struggle among the generals, creating instability in the country. However, since North Koreans show zilch will to rebel, it'd still be no good. That nation is doomed for eternity unless another world war happens and it's dragged in.

You are correct; they have no will to rebel because they are literally starving to death and in the dark. Their former head of state even claimed that it would be acceptable for 70% of the population to go and it would not bother him. I am not guessing his son will be much different, but we will see. I remain very cynical.

[Edort4]

Shame he lasted so much. I wonder who will be the new Evil who is responsible of all the misery in the world.

[Buffalobiian]

/waits for America to invade under War on Something banner.

[XanBcoo]

Shame he lasted so much. I wonder who will be the new Evil who is responsible of all the misery in the world.

They've been phasing in his son, Kim Jong-un for a while. He's basically been raised for this day.

[Sapphire]

Maybe the new guy will open the borders so the people starving to death can finally escape...

[Animeniax]

He's been on the verge of death for the past few years.

This is apropos:

1118

[rockmanj]

Maybe the new guy will open the borders so the people starving to death can finally escape...

Nobody knows much about Kim Jong Un, except that he is very chubby (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/19/143950041/who-is-kim-jong-un-who-really-knows?sc=fb&cc=fp). I doubt the borders will magically open; the people running the country (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/unreality-check-from-kim-to-kim-in-north-korea.html) have been doing so for a while.

[Sapphire]

Kim Jong-Un was raised in the West so that gives me a morsel of hope.

There's nothing magical about it. Kim Jong-Il didn't even officially engage in the role of "great leader" until after three years of mourning for his father Kim Il-sung.

My worry is about what the US government will do to "help" if NK shows any sign of weakness.

[dragonrage]

The US has problems of its own and with the elections coming up doubt anyone will be doing anything to cause a public out lash. The people don't really have a favorable opinion of North Korean (at least that what I believe).

Also it's not just one man that has North Korean so, it's the way their society is. From what I have seen from documentaries and talking to people from North Korea and South Korea, the North citizens are basically brainwash and isolated from any knowing of what is really happening and how the world and their neighbors view them. All they know is that their government tells them. Just because Kim Jong Il died doesn't mean the propaganda machine isn't in full swing.

With the US and South Korean stoppage of aid to North Korean the country has worsen dramatically.

That attack to the South Korean exercise was both a cry for help and to fuel the propaganda machine. To their people it says we are not afraid and are not weak. To the world it said we're a big baby and if you don't help us we will act out, even Russia and China are tired of them.

We do live in interesting times but the future doesn't look so bright anywhere. Oh well life goes on.

[Ryllharu]

To the world it said we're a big baby and if you don't help us we will act out, even Russia and China are tired of them.It was amusing that China used some very diplomatic words to describe the near-term future.


Following news of Kim Jong-il's death, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said the two countries would continue to protect "peace and stability".
In other words, "North Korea: While we're friends, and you're entering turbulence right now, do not mess with the status quo of the region. We wouldn't like a new war right on our doorstep, threatening our trade and growth."

[Buffalobiian]

Also it's not just one man that has North Korean so, it's the way their society is. From what I have seen from documentaries and talking to people from North Korea and South Korea, the North citizens are basically brainwash and isolated from any knowing of what is really happening and how the world and their neighbors view them. All they know is that their government tells them. Just because Kim Jong Il died doesn't mean the propaganda machine isn't in full swing.


Hah.. sounds like China all those years ago.

[rockmanj]

It was amusing that China used some very diplomatic words to describe the near-term future.


In other words, "North Korea: While we're friends, and you're entering turbulence right now, do not mess with the status quo of the region. We wouldn't like a new war right on our doorstep, threatening our trade and growth."

Not surprising at all. Like others said, it is a matter of societal change. Another factor is that South Korea would be ruined if refugees just started pouring in from the North en masse (I believe I have talked about this before); it would be like what happened in West Germany. I also seriously doubt the US would want to upset our great partners, South Korea and China. With this political and economic climate, that would probably do more harm than good. For now, we should probably just figure it will be business as usual.

[Animeniax]

I don't see how China would be upset by a westernized NK. It'd be another country to buy their products and grow economies through. And a prosperous and peaceful NK would lead to improved relations with SK and Japan too. It'd be win-win-win for the region. It would suck for video games and movies... one less nation to misrepresent as villains.

[rockmanj]

I don't see how China would be upset by a westernized NK. It'd be another country to buy their products and grow economies through. And a prosperous and peaceful NK would lead to improved relations with SK and Japan too. It'd be win-win-win for the region. It would suck for video games and movies... one less nation to misrepresent as villains.

The problem is that it would cost way too much to bring North Korea to a "westernized" level. To basically prop up a whole nation during this downturn would create an instability that would likely push us over the brink into a deep depression. There would basically need to be a multinational coalition that would have to foot the bill to re-integrate north korea, and that would likely take a really long time.

[Kraco]

South Korea is a rich nation. It would surely tax them for years, but at the same time it would bring them lots of work as well. China would probably help a bunch as well, being right next to North Korea and having more money than they can imagine use for (since they can't imagine using it for the benefit of their own people). Above all, North Koreans are still Koreans. It's not like they would be getting millions of foreigners suddenly in, like could be the case if North Korea had been occupied by some third country all these years.

Still, it would take a miracle for North Korea to open. It's not up to the leader alone; there's a whole power structure including the military brass that is very opposed to losing their privileges.

[rockmanj]

South Korea is a rich nation. It would surely tax them for years, but at the same time it would bring them lots of work as well. China would probably help a bunch as well, being right next to North Korea and having more money than they can imagine use for (since they can't imagine using it for the benefit of their own people). Above all, North Koreans are still Koreans. It's not like they would be getting millions of foreigners suddenly in, like could be the case if North Korea had been occupied by some third country all these years.

Still, it would take a miracle for North Korea to open. It's not up to the leader alone; there's a whole power structure including the military brass that is very opposed to losing their privileges.

Ideally reunification would be a good thing, but there is also the issue that most North Koreans (compared to the rest of the world) are likely unskilled, have no idea of the technological advances of the last 60 years, have a vastly cloistered culture, and likely the mindstate that goes with that, and like I said, would be very taxing on the country it would reunify with; to the tune of a welfare program for 20 million people. I am sure there are ways it could be done, but I don't think it will happen soon.

I mean, look at Germany. Their PM (who was an East German herself) says that the (cultural) unification is still incomplete even 20 years later. Also, East Germany, while culturally, politically, and economically different, shared a lot of commonalities along with a strong desire from its people to reunify (don't forget Die Wende (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Wende)). I think the government in NK is sadly smart enough to (literally and figuratively) keep people in the dark there so that they don't know the truth of the outside world. If people were ever able (which is a big IF) to access the internet or gain lines of communication, that would be the start of a revolution. Sadly, even that would be a very expensive undertaking and people would likely not believe it. This is (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/02/a_nation_of_racist_dwarfs.html?google_editors_pick s=true), in a nutshell, what the world would have to, well, (re)habilitate.

South Korea basically would be bringing in a bunch of foreigners. Yes, they are Korean, but those are not the same cultures anymore.

[Assertn]

South Korea is actually terrified of the collapse of NK for that very reason. Just as the responsibility was placed on west germany to reunite with east germany and take on their burden after their collapse, it would fall on SK's shoulders when NK inevitably implodes in on itself.

[Sapphire]

Good for the South Koreans and anyone else who decides to help, then.

[rockmanj]

South Korea is actually terrified of the collapse of NK for that very reason. Just as the responsibility was placed on west germany to reunite with east germany and take on their burden after their collapse, it would fall on SK's shoulders when NK inevitably implodes in on itself.

I am saying that is why the status quo will likely remain (with Chna and the US offering millions in aid like they have been for al these years); any change in that equilibrium spells disaster.

[Kraco]

Bah. It's nothing by greedy South Korean buggers worrying they can't buy a new car every other year anymore or a new brand name purse every week that think it would be a disaster for South Korea. If it happened, however, they would get over it. Let's not forget South Korea itself was a miserable underdeveloped country no farther than a few decades ago. They clearly have what it takes to rise and rise fast. They seem to have more than enough national pride to realise they are one people and should be united.

But then again, from my European perspective, I don't really know what I should be thinking following realpolitik. It could be better for Europe if Asia stayed weaker and divided by arguing amongst themselves.

[rockmanj]

Bah. It's nothing by greedy South Korean buggers worrying they can't buy a new car every other year anymore or a new brand name purse every week that think it would be a disaster for South Korea. If it happened, however, they would get over it. Let's not forget South Korea itself was a miserable underdeveloped country no farther than a few decades ago. They clearly have what it takes to rise and rise fast. They seem to have more than enough national pride to realise they are one people and should be united.

But then again, from my European perspective, I don't really know what I should be thinking following realpolitik. It could be better for Europe if Asia stayed weaker and divided by arguing amongst themselves.

I mean, that would be the ideal, to have one united country, but the North Korean story is quite different. I read an interesting article (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/kim-jong-ils-death-time-to-stir-up-robber-baron-envy/250181/) today about a possible way out of the mess that they are in. Whatever happens though, I am guessing there won't be any real re-unification effort in the short term, and I suppose that is a bit of realpolitk type thinking on my part. I really think it would be a disaster for both S. Korea and China in terms of refugee housing and immediate distribution of resources.

[dragonrage]

Bah. It's nothing by greedy South Korean buggers worrying they can't buy a new car every other year anymore or a new brand name purse every week that think it would be a disaster for South Korea. If it happened, however, they would get over it. Let's not forget South Korea itself was a miserable underdeveloped country no farther than a few decades ago. They clearly have what it takes to rise and rise fast. They seem to have more than enough national pride to realise they are one people and should be united.

But then again, from my European perspective, I don't really know what I should be thinking following realpolitik. It could be better for Europe if Asia stayed weaker and divided by arguing amongst themselves.

Their rapid growth is due to a lot of foreign investors (Saudi and other middle eastern countries make up the bulk of it, meaning oil rich fuckers that aren't taxed) and their unique housing system, most people live in apartment buildings whether it's rented or own.

I'm more concern with my immediate surrounding NYC, it's become almost impossible to own a house with all the increase in taxes and bills. You take a shit you pay for it, and with a lot of the zoning violations and conversions of housing areas into apartment complexes; that's a lot of shit that the sewer systems wasn't designed to handle. To fix it you have to pay for it, when they dig up the roads you pay for it, when they fix the roads you pay for it.

Also half of Manhattan is is basically owned by Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries; all of which has an American face for aesthetic purposes. But what can I say they have the oil, they have the money, they are willing to invest when Americans are holding on to their money ( I'm talking about the multi-billionaire here), the Government relaxed the laws so that basically they walk away almost tax free. All the while you're paying out the ass to take a shit in a house that is currently under valued because of the economic state. I'm glad I'm not that guy, but a lot of people are.

I agree with Dennis Miller when he said; fuck it when it comes time to pay up, tell them we don't have it. what are they gonna do?



But on topic, the world is greedy not just one country. Greed generates progress but what happens when progress has been bloated and falsify? Answer, the world we live in now. No one can stay on top forever Kraco, just ask your European brother Greece. :)

[rockmanj]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/an-absurd-rite-of-passage/250318/ Has this happened to anyone else? And this is more (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/even-in-a-best-case-scenario-north-korea-remains-a-big-problem/250292/) what I was talking about.

[Assertn]

And this is more (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/even-in-a-best-case-scenario-north-korea-remains-a-big-problem/250292/) what I was talking about.

Pretty much exactly. It's a bit ignorant to shrug off the reunification of the country as something as simple as waiting an extra year for your brand new car or buy one less designer purse. (cough)

Edit: By the way, we're talking about half the country piggy-backing on the other half, here. That's huge.

[Kraco]

That's what it would be in practical terms, and surely those terms are what common people from the streets would be foremost thinking: How it would affect their own particular household's level of living and comfort. Obviously it would reduce their wellbeing a lot. However, as much misery as it would bring to the south, it would be an equal blessing to the north.

But then again, I could also say Americans are ignorant of the feelings of nations that lost lots of land in WWII - since you guys only claimed more land for yourself. Since North Korea is so abnormal, it would be justified to say South Korea is the real Korea right now and the northern part is lost land.

[rockmanj]

Since North Korea is so abnormal, it would be justified to say South Korea is the real Korea right now and the northern part is lost land.

I don't know too many Koreans that agree with that. They still would consider it a part of Korea, since a lot of those people are their family, but I do agree it is like a lost section of Korea.

[dragonrage]

Realistically if North Korea does collapse. While it would be a disaster, a lot of people are going to want to get that country under stable control both to maintain the peace and to take advantage of their rare earth minerals. You know those materials that enable you to have faster, smaller, smarter phones, North Korea has them and has been selling it to China as it's main export ( also currently the mines are not as successful as they should be). Their collapse affects China and from that the World. Which is why they were and still are given aid.

[Alhuin]

For the past couple of days, I've been following a story about emails sent between the PR of Ocean Marketing and a customer regarding the delay of shipment of the new Avenger controller. The emails start out as simple questions from the customer, and ambiguous responses from the PR guy, but quickly develops into full-scale insults and childish behaviour, mostly from the PR guy, who starts name-dropping "big name" companies/websites that will "back him up". Copies of the emails were forwarded to several of these websites, including Penny Arcade, where Mike Krahulik became involved... and from there it's internet history.

Here are some articles about it: Penny Arcade (http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/27) (You have to scroll down to the post titled "Just Wow", Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5871479/pr-trolling-ocean-stratagy-out-of-business-avenger-controller-maker-asks-for-forgiveness), and here's a hilarious Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xqV9kx40RG0) video referencing several of the ridiculous comments from the emails.

Also, I regard this as news because of how big the situation has grown, but if this post would be better suited for "The Internet", then please move it there and delete this sentence.

[rockmanj]

Wow, that is crazy. Thanks for the share.

[Buffalobiian]

Haha.. I love how that guy just doesn't know when to stop.

"Oh shit, this guy's a big fellow.. umm... let's piss him off even more!"

[dragonrage]

This caught my attention, while reading other things.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ why men need to cheat (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vicki-larson/why-men-need-to-cheat_b_1170015.html?ref=mostpopular)

[Buffalobiian]

This caught my attention, while reading other things.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ why men need to cheat (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vicki-larson/why-men-need-to-cheat_b_1170015.html?ref=mostpopular)




"Marriage is for the birds - the female birds. Let's see. I get married, my sex life ends, I work until I die, I am not appreciate*d, I have to bear venom and lies and nagging, and if I divorce she takes everything of mine, marital, pre-marita*l and post-marit*al, including my family photograph*s which are of no use to her. And stops me from seeing my children. No thanks.

How is modern marriage not cheating him of everything*?

Never tell me marriage is between a man and woman. If it were, there would be no government approval required, and no license produced. Marriage is between a man, a woman, and a judge. Get the judge out of my bedroom.

There is a reason she wears white and he wears black at the wedding. It is the happiest day of her life, and his funeral."

-someone's comment

xD

Except most of the time I think I see grooms wear white now, not black.

[dragonrage]

I really don't know how to react to this. I've always been against breast implant, thought of it as something only a really superficial and shallow person would do( with the exception for medical reasons, such as: breast cancer and what not. If it is what is needed to make you feel a little more whole again I totally support it). Hope those ladies are okay in the future, curse the french, another reason for the Brits to hate France.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012 breast implants (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/06/implants-scandal-andrew-lansley-pip_n_1189008.html)

[rockmanj]

I've always been against breast implant, thought of it as something only a really superficial and shallow person would do( with the exception for medical reasons, such as: breast cancer and what not. If it is what is needed to make you feel a little more whole again I totally support it).[/URL]

Ohh...somewhat dangerous statement. I am guessing you are saying that you don't like the idea of them, unless you are saying you would never get them :P

[dragonrage]

lol, I didn't think about it that way. Let me clarify, I don't like the idea of a woman getting breast implant; there are exceptions to this of course but for the most part I think it says something about who you are if you do which most of the time indicates that you lack depth amongst other things.

[Animeniax]

Breast implants say a lot about society as a whole, not just the women who feel the need to get them. Remember, don't hate the player, hate the game.

[dragonrage]

Breast implants say a lot about society as a whole, not just the women who feel the need to get them. Remember, don't hate the player, hate the game.

You have a point. But it is also a person's choice whether to play or not and someone had to create the game and it took someone else to participate. And I don't regard a person's life as a game, it's not like there is a reset button and you can start over. But you do have a point.


p.s. The "game" got really fuck up when sixteen year old's started getting them as birthday presents.

[XanBcoo]

You have a point. But it is also a person's choice whether to play or not and someone had to create the game and it took someone else to participate. And I don't regard a person's life as a game, it's not like there is a reset button and you can start over. But you do have a point.


p.s. The "game" got really fuck up when sixteen year old's started getting them as birthday presents.
You don't knowingly not follow the rules of a game if you were brought up thinking basketball is played with a tennis racket.

Player/Game/Etc.

Don't hate.

Educate.

[dragonrage]

You don't knowingly not follow the rules of a game if you were brought up thinking basketball is played with a tennis racket.

Player/Game/Etc.

Don't hate.

Educate.



Que'? What rules and what game are you talking about? What exactly is the "educational" lesson?

[XanBcoo]

I was extending the "game" metaphor.


But it is also a person's choice whether to play or not and someone had to create the game and it took someone else to participate.
Unfortunately not everyone knows the same "rules" as you do, either through misinformation or lack of education regarding the issue. You can't honestly hold them morally culpable for this. It's more productive to spread the positive message you would like others to follow rather than implying that they are intrinsically broken or "lacking depth" which just feeds the negative opinion they have of themselves (which probably caused them to break the rules of the "game" in the first place) and changes nothing.

This applies to more than just cosmetic surgery.

[dragonrage]

I don't think we're on the same page here. The "game" phrase came in with Ani's comment.


I don't think there are specific rules to anything, there are choices and circumstances. Let's say for instance a couple (married or not) who is has been in love with eachother and wants to spends the rest of their lives together happens to one day decide to get breast implants for whatever reason (to spice things up, to make both of them happy) I say go for it. Not something I would choose but it's their choice. Or a woman has breast cancer and had to have an operation to save her life, if it makes her feel a little bit normal again, I am all for it, not that it is my choice or in anyway my business, but I definitely understand. Or someone has an accident and so on.

What I don't agree with is the pressure some woman face to have bigger breast or believing bigger breast means being more beautiful and sexually appealing because that is what the society or images, movies, advertisements we see everyday says or just having them because. It is their choice and certainly non of my business, but what's wrong with being natural? To me a woman's beauty and sex appeal is more than just her looks.

To me it, it says something about someone's personality and self esteem. One that is generally associated with being materialistic and superficial. But again that is just my opinion.

I do have a problem with sixteen year old's getting breast implants. They are still growing both mentally and physically and their parents and "doctors" should have better sense. But then again, that says a lot about the society one lives in.

Don't really know why breast implants would get more attention that the cheating article ( although, I do find the research base quite idiotic and pinpoint, which undergrad student (male or female) do you know that doesn't want to sleep with everything in sight, minus the few exceptions of course) but hey oh well.

[XanBcoo]

I don't think we're on the same page here. The "game" phrase came in with Ani's comment.
Yes, and he was totally on point for once. The idea of cosmetic surgery for aesthetic appeal says more about the "game" than it does the "player". "The game" being the way women are brought up in society as a result of a whole bunch of issues.


What you said here basically agrees with this sentiment:

What I don't agree with is the pressure some woman face to have bigger breast or believing bigger breast means being more beautiful and sexually appealing because that is what the society or images, movies, advertisements we see everyday says or just having them because. It is their choice and certainly non of my business, but what's wrong with being natural? To me a woman's beauty and sex appeal is more than just her looks.
Paying attention to the bolded parts, what do you think influences that choice? And then, can a person be held accountable for a choice made in the absence of good information or a proper education?

A sixteen-year old receiving breast implants as a gift does not know it's wrong, and in the end, neither does the mother. Who's to blame, then? Why does it matter?

We're quick to blame people for their decisions without realizing why those decisions were made in the first place, is all. I'm not even saying that the decision has to be respected, but rather understood.

/hippie

[dragonrage]

Yes, and he was totally on point for once. The idea of cosmetic surgery for aesthetic appeal says more about the "game" than it does the "player". "The game" being the way women are brought up in society as a result of a whole bunch of issues.


http://forums.gotwoot.gotwoot4/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Animeniax http://forums.gotwoot.gotwoot4/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.gotwoot.showthread.php?p=505915#post505915)

Breast implants say a lot about society as a whole, not just the women who feel the need to get them. Remember, don't hate the player, hate the game.


dragonrage:You have a point. But it is also a person's choice whether to play or not and someone had to create the game and it took someone else to participate. And I don't regard a person's life as a game, it's not like there is a reset button and you can start over. But you do have a point.






A sixteen-year old receiving breast implants as a gift does not know it's wrong, and in the end, neither does the mother. Who's to blame, then? Why does it matter?

We're quick to blame people for their decisions without realizing why those decisions were made in the first place, is all. I'm not even saying that the decision has to be respected, but rather understood.



But then again, that says a lot about the society one lives in.


Don't see where I ever said I didn't agree with what he said or you for that matter. Just that I didn't regard someone's life as a game and that I didn't agree with certain things and clearly stated it was just my opinion. I never said I didn't understand, just that I don't agree with it.


Society: a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests

taken from merriam-webster dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/society)


We are all entitled to our opinions, views and preferences both you and I. Hippie.


p.s. Whose blaming? I do have a problem with certain things.


Are you saying that a parent who is responsible and should be informed about the medical and emotion impact of something like that being done to his or her child is absolved of that responsibility because it is socially acceptable? What about the doctor who should know and be very well educated in his field about it impact it has, is absolved of everything because it's socially acceptable?

Is that what you are saying?


If you go to a doctor (cosmetic or otherwise) they are required by law to explain what is going to be done to you. Where is the lack of information? Certainly there is no moral obligation, but where does ignorance come in?

[XanBcoo]

Not trying to start an argument, I was replying in particular to this comment:

But it is also a person's choice whether to play or not and someone had to create the game and it took someone else to participate.
Bottom line: Yes it's the person's choice, but made in light of poor information and belief structures. A person's actions and choices are their own, but if they're not a willing participant in the game it's not a fair fight and you can't really lay much blame on them for poor decisions if they're made without the knowledge of why it's a poor one.

Just saying. We basically agree on everything else.

[dragonrage]

Fair enough.

[rockmanj]

Is this news? http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-11/11/cubestormer-ii-world-record

[dragonrage]

Is this news? http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-11/11/cubestormer-ii-world-record


That's cheating. The thing has like 4 arms and internal precision movement for the cube, which human do you know was build just for the rubik's cube.


This caught my attention though; http://www.wired.co.uk/nuclear-monster-weapon-dismantled (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/25/nuclear-monster-weapon-dismantled) I always was fascinated with blowing stuff up, in a non-lethal Armageddon way, might explain why I excelled at chemistry.

This is also fascinating; http://www.wired.co.uk/kingdom-tower-planned-as-worlds-tallest-building (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-08/02/kingdom-tower-planned-as-worlds-tallest-building) pretty cool.


Both are old articles but stimulated me in a good way.

[UChessmaster]

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This post has been found in violation of H.R. 3261, S.O.P.A and has been removed.

[dragonrage]

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This post has been found in violation of H.R. 3261, S.O.P.A and has been removed.

Bill hasn't been past yet. There is a petition against it.
https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/

[Marik]

Rest in peace, Whitney Houston.

Singer Whitney Houston dies at 48 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/11/showbiz/whitney-houston-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

[Sapphire]

HOLY FUCKING FUCKING HOLY FUCKIG OMG WHY NO

[Archangel]

HOLY FUCKING FUCKING HOLY FUCKIG OMG WHY NO
Because crack.

[Sapphire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p_ohUw9NFpo

Don't do drugs.

[Uchiha Barles]

This actually made me very sad. I grew up with her music. To this day the songs "I wanna dance with somebody", "How will I know", "Every woman" among many others just lift my spirits when I hear them. You'd figure people would know not to call me to deliver bullshit news when I'm out trying to have a good time. :(

[Kraco]

That was surprising for sure. Or maybe it wasn't surprising to those who had followed her life better, but I only knew her from her music and one or two movie roles.

[Sapphire]

I grew up with her too, so I was pretty damn surprised.

[Animeniax]

Umm, no offense to discosean and his message against drugs, but do we know the cause of Whitney's death at this point?

[Buffalobiian]

Umm, no offense to discosean and his message against drugs, but do we know the cause of Whitney's death at this point?

No. An autopsy will take prolly a day. Chemical results could take a few more.

[Uchiha Barles]

Some people are telling me they've heard that it was a combination of Xanax and alcohol. A quick google search is supporting their claims. Coincidentally, her daughter's being hospitalized for an anxiety attack.

Here's a link:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/02/12/whitney-houston-dead-prescription-drugs-drowned-autopsy/

[Assassin]

drugs are awesome. especially xanax.

[Archangel]

drugs are awesome. especially xanax.
Anyone else notice how Assassin just seems to drop by randomly every other week to grace us with his ever so wonderful witty humor?

Why are you still a moderator?

[dragonrage]

He comes with the decor, leave the Canadian alone.

Rest in peace Whitney Houston, the music you made is great and will live on in your place.

That said maybe I'm just jaded but an artist dying untimely from drugs doesn't even make me raise an eyebrow. It's a very old cliche.

[rockmanj]

Something I wrote to a national correspondent of the Atlantic ended up on the site (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/02/super-cool-obama-super-hot-christie-and-a-book-by-harper-lee/252949/). It is in reference to an article on President Obama.

[Death BOO Z]

what part of that is yours?

anyway, America always amazes me with how open you are about your race issues.

[Marik]

what part of that is yours?
The one that says, "Reader Michael Harrington writes:" is his.

[Assertn]

what part of that is yours?

anyway, America always amazes me with how open you are about your race issues.

Why? Is Israel embarrassed about their racial profiling?

[rockmanj]

what part of that is yours?

anyway, America always amazes me with how open you are about your race issues.

Eh, I would not say "open". Lots of people hate talking about it and getting those issues out in the open. I think that is the onyl way to get past them, but the US is still a pretty racist country. I mean, it was built as a multi-ethnic country (some people would not like to believe that, but it is true). A lot of "friends" and associates hate for anyone to bring it up, because it gets uncomfortable.

And yea, I have read some startling things about race relations in Israel.

[Death BOO Z]

like every country, Israel has a social divide (or several social divisors), some of which we talk openly about (religious\secular) and some are pretty much suppressed (ethnic by country of origin). and when I say suppressed I mean everybody just coughs when it surfaces and tries to pretend the elephant doesn't exist.

a serious newspaper can never address the ethnic issue the way that article in the Atlantic did, and you can't have a real discussion of 'being a minority' as you (rockmanj) mentioned. all these issues exist, but are hardly ever brought to surface.

Assertn, I wasn't referring to racial profiling, we're pretty open about that. the system has flaws but it has reasons behind it. The Israel\arab conflict has less to do with what I was impressed by.

[rockmanj]

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/02/coming-up-the-definitive-obama-netanyahu-meeting/253497/#disqus_thread Is that guy that was quoted serious? How is it the US's moral failing if Israel attacks another country? I agree with the author on this one.

[Death BOO Z]

I'm mostly against attacking in Iran, and usually I think Shavit (the guy quoted) is a pom-posed speech writer, but the tone of the article was immature, and felt like the author was playing dumb and dancing away from the subject.

[rockmanj]

I'm mostly against attacking in Iran, and usually I think Shavit (the guy quoted) is a pom-posed speech writer, but the tone of the article was immature, and felt like the author was playing dumb and dancing away from the subject.

I agree with what you said. Shavit is kind of ridiculous. Also, the US can't really afford the wars we have been engaged in so far, so it would be self-destructive on our end to start another conflict. Those GOP candidates, along with about 17 senators disagree though. I wonder how they propose we pay for it and how many of our soldiers and Iranian civilians lives they intend to ruin. I hope the US keeps its involvement purely diplomatic and Bibi does not start bombing Iran...but who knows what will happen.

[Carnage]

I hope the world will enjoy escalating prices and buying oil at $5 a gallon.

[Death BOO Z]

it seems that Iran hardly sells to US and europe, and mostly sells to east europe and asia.

the prices will go up, of course, no matter what happens.

[rockmanj]

it seems that Iran hardly sells to US and europe, and mostly sells to east europe and asia.

the prices will go up, of course, no matter what happens.

That is true. Also, the US has artificially low gas prices. England pays something close to $10 a gallon in American dollars. Many other countries pay a similar price for gasoline because it tends to be taxed heavier instead of heavily subsidized.

[Kraco]

Dates are imported from Iran, but I suppose there are other sources for those as well. More expensive sources, naturally.

[Ryllharu]

That is true. Also, the US has artificially low gas prices. England pays something close to $10 a gallon in American dollars. Many other countries pay a similar price for gasoline because it tends to be taxed heavier instead of heavily subsidized.
The US does not have artificially low priced gasoline. Everyone else and especially Europe have higher gasoline prices because they tax it so heavily. The Unites States does not subsidize gasoline. That's Nigeria and Indonesia. Russia, Canada, and Australia do not tax gasoline as heavily as Europe, and thus have similar (while still higher) prices than the US.

Taxing less is not a subsidy.

Ethanol is subsidized in the United States. Ethanol is by law, less than 10% of what comes out of a pump in the US. E85 (15% ethanol) will damage engines designed not to use it, which includes many cars still one the road in the US.

Why is ethanol subsidized? That's because of the mighty Corn Lobby. Farmers are paid to grow corn which is made into ethanol, and the price that corn sells at is subsidized to drive the price up. Under the guise that it is, "keeping farmers alive."

[Carnage]

In any case, you cant tell me that threats to the straight of Hormuz which carries 20% of world wide daily oil flow wont jack up oil prices. In addition, any time tensions increase in the ME in general, OPEC raises oil prices anyway.

[Ryllharu]

OPEC and all the speculators jack up prices at any opportunity. It's disgusting.

The only way to stop that is to force the person or firm "buying" the commodity to actually take possession of the barrels. Then watch how quick the shenanigans stop. It's ridiculous that a shipment of oil can be bought and sold 20 times before it reaches port. It's always going to end up at a refinery anyway. Everyone in the middle are just scumbags manipulating the prices for personal gain.

[Animeniax]

The other option is to make that pipe from Canada to the gulf. All that pure sweet crude just under foot in the 51st state.

[rockmanj]

OPEC and all the speculators jack up prices at any opportunity. It's disgusting.

The only way to stop that is to force the person or firm "buying" the commodity to actually take possession of the barrels. Then watch how quick the shenanigans stop. It's ridiculous that a shipment of oil can be bought and sold 20 times before it reaches port. It's always going to end up at a refinery anyway. Everyone in the middle are just scumbags manipulating the prices for personal gain.


Yes, you are right I meant the ethanol. And the OPEC along with speculation schemes that drive prices up on oil (among other things).

Don't get me started on corn and soy...

[Carnage]

Peace out earth, its just a question of whether itll be us or global warming that rapes you.