Anime: The Lazymans Animation

[Srg.Pepper]

I know anime is a style but it's such a lazy animation method. They draw a couple of frames then parallax them. Whoa!

Storylines are usually more adult than the american equivalent but this isn't my gripe.

Admittedly there are some kickass anime movies, maybe even a series or two that i've missed -- where the animators have bothered to draw more than two frames every minute -- but the likes of Pokémon and Dragonball Z... so many other voltron wannabe cacks are all lazy animation.

Their nature is lazy. They draw the hero in a pose and parallax the background round them while they tremble in a strangely fake Dr. Katz way.

I don't believe for a second that this type of animation -- as done so predominately in many Animes -- is because of an artistic vision. It's Anime: The lazy-man's animation.

[Terracosmo]

So do you like anime or not?

[Munsu]

I'm not arguing anything you're saying, but basing your info on shitty shows like Pokemon and old ass shows like DBZ? Give me a break. If you're going to argue something, at least use some of the most recent animes out there. Try arguing using shows like Speed Grapher, Kurau Phantom Memory, Eureka seveN, Ghost in the Shell...

[Srg.Pepper]

Hey boy, you wanna get ahead
You gotta give some head

So are you a chick or a gay anime nerd?

The Storylines are better yet the anime is just lazy as shit. Maybe if they came over to America and picked up some of Disneys real artists then they could get some better shows on to real networks like ABC and FOX.

[woofcat]

For Budweineken, Bleach and Naruto are horrible these days, and those came out like what Wensday?

Edit: I am just saying he has a point on some of the recent anime.

[Munsu]

As I said, I wasn't arguing what he was presenting... I was just mentioning that he should use better examples in his argument.

Edit above: I'm just saying that I have no way of guessing where he's arguing from. Cause if he's basing all that post on a shitty series like Pokemon, then I don't have any reason to give him any credit on what he's arguing. And him mentioning that only a series or two surpass his argument, makes me doubt everything he's arguing. So, better and more recent examples are needed.

[Terracosmo]

So are you a chick or a gay anime nerd?

I'm a Turbonegro fan.

My turn. Are you playing tough in some kind of attempt to piss off "gay anime nerds" or are you just plain dumb?

[Srg.Pepper]

Well, its not like anime has changed ever. Its still the same old dried out ideas just replayed with a new twist. Whats that Mecha? No shit. Maybe if they branched out from Ninjas and other over used ideas in Anime. They are almost as bad as American reality shows.

[Terracosmo]

Disney


Its still the same old dried out ideas just replayed with a new twist.

ROFFLERS!!111

[Munsu]

Well, you're not arguing about plot, so I don't know why you're bringing that up. You're arguing about animation, and animation has improved.

So, sorry Srg. Pepper, but you've failed to construct a convincing argument.

[Srg.Pepper]

To Terracosmo:
Please stop formating your text to super large.

To Budweineken:

Both the Animation and rehashed ideas are the downfall of anime today. The good moves i listed and the more serious plots are good. But they still need to branch out more. There are how many animes about ninjas? How many about Samurai?

Also have you seen the lighting in Blood+? It's bad. I am sure Woofcat knows what i mean?

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

Lazy animation you say? But based on things like Naruto, they only have a week to spit out a episode, just to meet deadlines, storylines have suffered or animation has suffered. Disney makes good animation, but that's when they do MOVIES, their cartoon shows are dramatically lower quality and runs at the same smoothness as many everyday cartoons, although now it's really just re-run after re-run.

Besides, animation has generally improved alot over the years even with the limited time they have to work with. In movies, you can definetly see the increase in quality, even the pokemon movies don't spam the garbage you usually see in it's series.

The everyday cartoons nowadays are honestly just more colorful, while the smoothness is pretty much the same.

And about the Samurais and Ninja's being spammed all over the place...
I'm thinking it's because it's part of their culture? And Ninja's and Samurai are really cool? XD

Look at america now, how many comic book super heroes must we whore till we invent some more? Huh?! HUH!? Don't get me wrong, I love the superheroes, but it seems more like a trend then anything meaningful, super hero games, movies, cartoons, trading cards, you name it, all men-in-tights spam, and that's all our side of the globe seems to be good for. They spam, we spam, everyone spams, don't single them out like their a bad guy.

[Terracosmo]

To Terracosmo:
Please stop formating your text to super large.

If you stop trolling my forums, maybe we have a deal.

[Srg.Pepper]

Even with less time they are working in an area with more people and less workers rights. They should have the ability to crank out higher quality episodes. If you ever go to Japan please confirm what i have heard, that most people work 12 hours a day.

Do you not think that if you had lets say 700 men for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week to make 30 minutes of animation? The story is made by the manga, besides the filler (and really what type of time do they spend writing that?) they write nothing.

Compared to Disney who has to deal with min wage, union's, and tons of other problems like vaction time.

I expect Anime to be of higher quality.

"If you stop trolling my forums, maybe we have a deal."

If you give me head we have a deal. ok hun?

Blatant flaming. If this keeps up you'll be out of here just as fast as you came. No pun intended related to the earlier request about head. Consider this a warning.

[Assertn]

Wait......is this an argument about how anime is flawed in the sense that it's a low-budget production process that consistently yields high profits from a worldwide consumer base?

[Srg.Pepper]

Wait......is this an argument about how anime is flawed in the sense that it's a low-budget production process that consistently yields high profits from a worldwide consumer base?


Yes, but if it earns to much, why must it be so low budget? Anime isn't produced by small companys, plus they get even more money when they hit the states and people like VIZ buy them.

You would think that with all that American coin they are making they could produce a little less shotty anime. Also with all the cash VIZ and others rake in maybe they could hire better Voice Acters. Jesus Christ they use the same voices for diffrent animes then run the one right after the other.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

There is also voice over work. Manga and Anime tend to be REALLY different BECAUSE of these time constraints and then they have to write a new script to fit the changes made to accomadate deadlines. 700 people? Show me 700 people in the credits and maybe you have an arguement. You can just look at people that ink comic pages, there aren't that many people in a room and this is just to finish a single book with much more than a weeks time.

It also takes time to edit the work to make it work in their ad spam and crappy stuff like that, there is no magical little elf that says "Animation is: Draw, film, go!" More like "Write, edit, plan scene, edit, draw scenes, edit, color scenes, edit, draw characters, edit etc etc etc etc."

[Srg.Pepper]

Wow i guess you are right. episodes like.

"192 Ino Screams! Chubby Paradise"
and
"187 Open for Business!! Konoha House Moving Center"

must have really followed the "Write, edit, plan scene, edit, draw scenes, edit, color scenes, edit, draw characters, edit etc etc etc etc."

in truth anime is not that hard to produce. They just lack the ability to do it correctly.

Look at "Avatar: The Last Airbender" that is anime produced in the USA. It has good quality all around, even the voice acting. Even with the USA market not having near the demand of the Japan market for anime they still pulled off a decent show.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

To be honest, Avatar: The Last Airbender has just as minimal frames as many animations today and it's quality is similar, if not the same, with the animes you are deeming "crap".

Also, voice actor quality is not something you can tell since when most people say " The voice actor was CRAP!" is because it is in comparison with the japanese voice actors. You are being introduced to the characters with their original voices, your brain affiliates the character to said personality/voice whatever. Like say...one example of Naruto's "Believe It" phrase.

Many of us cringe at the words. But you know why? You actually understand the words coming out of his mouth. In japanese, a good half of us have no idea what he's saying, relying soley on tone of voice to interpret his "subbed" words. But what did Naruto say to have the "Believe IT!" phrase there so many times? Dattebayo, a phrase spammed practically after every breath, sometimes more than once on the same sentence. He says it so many times, Believe it suddenly doesn't seem that much of a bother. What's worse? Dattebayo doesn't even mean anything! It means even less than adding the word "yo" at the end of every sentence....yo.

Anyway...enough with voice actors. To the "high quality" animation you demand like it's a right. Let's not even assume the half hour of animation (it's not half an hour anyhow, don't forget the ads) Lets just assume...20 minutes. Now lets use the standard FPS for everyday animation, 12 FPS. Now, 12FPS x 60 seconds = 720 frames per minute. Now, 720 frames x 20 min = 14,400 frames an episode. They have to get 14,400 frames done in a week and lets not include the coloring and scene planning and lets not even think about the silly sound effects that add that punch to every frame. And then lets not even think about voice actors.

Now, how many editors? For Bleach, we count a whopping 1, oh excuse me, lets include the incredible 2 video editors. Some members of said crew have multiple jobs. Gee wiz, just why is that? And I always considered Bleach the better among the likes of popular anime.

[Srg.Pepper]

Sure its a lot of work, but they rake in the cash, so why not hire 50 editors. As AssertnFailure so kindly summed up they rake in cash and spend nothing. Well low budget. So whats wrong with making less money and making something that is more decent then a bunch of "Death gods" running aorund, Also did you see the Rukia rescue? She looked like she was 3 feet tall then in the next scene a nice 5"4'. You call that good? Jesus Christ i hope you are blind and reading this with that annoying Mircorsoft robot voice.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

That would be perspective, and yes, I do know about the strange height differences from frame to frame. I did mention earlier that time constraints causes either or both story and animation to suffer, this includes the overall quality. That money is probably spent on spreading the anime like a plague around the globe or even as simple as spreading little toys to local shops. It's a business as well, so "duh" they want to make money. If they don't have to spend more money to make a working cartoon with acceptable quality, why should they? You think american cartoons are better? Cartoons evolved on making shortcuts through out history, why? to save cash! Moolah! Dinero! Currency of respective country! And then there is giving money to companies for all the publishing nonsense.

Heck America is so lazy, we'll just dub an anime sort of popular from another country and then dumb it down for an audience younger than targeted. Lets NOT spend the money to get even a DECENT writer! Lets not even look at the voice actors, lets look at the people airing the stuff, Kid's WB, Jet-ex, Fox Box or whatever satanic gibberish they have now. Even Canada does a better job then we do, wtf is that about? Lets look at a prime example, Megaman Battle Network, we won't even show you half the episodes, cause not only are we lazy, we seem to be retarded too.

[Zinobi]

Well low budget. So whats wrong with making less money and making something that is more decent then a bunch of "Death gods" running aorund,

Well theres something that you havent noticed about the human race most of us are greedy and want to keep as much money for ourselves as possible. This goes especially for the people behind such anime. Chances are they're in it for the cash and could give a shit about what they are putting out. That's my opinion though.

Also stop being a bitch Srg. Pepper...

[Srg.Pepper]

Well folks, I would love to stay and chat, but i have gotten bored, not beaten here tonight. It was a fun argument, and if you claim wanting to argue as trolling then yeah i trolled. Anyways it was fun and i am out of here. mods admins who ever runs this joint lock this up. Thanks for the fun. Later.

Btw.

Terracosmo is a Homosexual

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

I think I'll take his chair position of "ass" and say the last words.

I want Srg. Pepper to come back but after that bold statement in red, I don't think he'll exist anymore...which saddens and yet delights me...

[Yukimura]

Hrmmm, there's discussions and then there's throwing a match onto a pile of kindling soaked in gasoline.

90 -95% of the people who watch anime accept it as is, and certainly don't run around wishing it was like anything Disney put out. Disney makes movies, no more than 2-3 a year and each one gets seen bye huge numbers of people all of whom have to pay to watch it just one time. This amounts to millions and millions of dollars in revenue for the company. Anime on the other hand is public TV generally. When I compare the quality of the Simpsons or Familiy Guy to more modern shows like Ghost in the Shell or Ergo Proxy (neither of which have a plot I find unoriginal) I don't see why anyone would complain.

EDIT: That fucker gave up while I was typing!! Oh well, he was entertaining for a while.

[Assertn]

Yes, but if it earns to much, why must it be so low budget? Anime isn't produced by small companys, plus they get even more money when they hit the states and people like VIZ buy them.
So you're asking why they don't spend more money than what is needed to turn a profit?
Japanese are all about efficiency, unlike the effort you've wasted thus far to support your "not-enough-money-was-put-into-this-to-fulfill-my-daily-ADD-stimulation-of-western-visual-quality" strain of logic.

[Srg.Pepper]

I want Srg. Pepper to come back

Hello my loving Fan Tekkaman Vigorot.

True Japan is all about saving and scrimping but they do have Plasma tv's out the ass. So just export those and take your savings and make decent anime. You know what anime is awesome. Buy standers of lighting and story. Both Plot and action. One Peace. That is one kick ass anime.

Also If you call you get srg.Pepper.

[Srg.Pepper]

EDIT: That fucker gave up while I was typing!! Oh well, he was entertaining for a while.

Fuck you i did. No bitch, get back to typing.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

As much as I enjoy One Piece, I still have to say it's quality is still similar to quality of many other anime, not only that, One Piece still features quite a bit of the spam you seem to hate so very much. Plot can be considered incredibly cliche, as matter of fact, it IS! The minor subtlties and excecution is what has me seeing past the cliches, but for what it is, One Piece is not free of the stuff you blab on about...

Japan is all about saving and scrimping? That would be businesses in general. What business is formed to NOT make money?

[Srg.Pepper]

The internet. ICANN.. Gotwoot..digg.com..youtube..Goverments.

Also, I don't watch One peace or w/e to me it is as i said shitty. But i was hoping for a fan boy to jump in so i could flame his ass.

Many places break even, you tube. makes not alot of money. They could easly add a gold user feature that allows for something more and then they would have the American Coin!/.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

The internet is not a business... Government is not a business, ICANN is not a business, Gotwoot is...no where close to a business, youtube is not a business either.

I think you're losing your head if you think the internet is a business...

Something I forgot, mentioning something in hopes of alluring someone else to flame is clear trolling.

[Srg.Pepper]

So, who sinks the $1.5 Million into youtube everymonth for its bandwidth costs alone

Digg has 15 workers. CEO's etc. It is a business. Guess what its free and they just break even.

Also, they don't work 12 hour days. And if anime studios made anime close to as good as these folks make websites then we would all be sitting in our shit an piss from excitement.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

Youtube is a service provided by their partners, they do not provide "commodities", nor do they provide products and nor do they make any form of cash from users on their site.

Digg.com has workers, of course they do, otherwise there is no site. They themselves are not a business either, it is yet another service provided by an actual business, they are merely a service which doesn't make money. A business is formed to make money, not to become a charity.

[Srg.Pepper]

You tube and Digg both make money just not much as they make there money at the end when they sell the site. Digg is Valued at $60 Million and Youtube as MultiBillion. Does that mean that the "free" service is worth Millions if not Billions. Of course they are businesses. Stop talking out your ass.

[Tekkaman Vigorot]

Alright, I'll concede to the argument that Youtube and Digg.com are businesses. But you only proved that businesses are for making money. You attempted to answer my question with businesses made to not make profit. Good job.

Btw, what in the world were you thinking when you said internet? o.O

[Srg.Pepper]

The vaste bases of knowledge and trolls. Like Wikipedia, other places. Ahh fuck it, i really don't care. Hmm we need a new topic of discussion.

This video
http://live-amazing-videos.blogspot.com/2006/07/weird-russian-video.html

I think that is some cool shit and we should look more into it. I would love to be a Re-animated head on a shelf. Of couse it would never happen because there are too many fucking pussys bitching about abortions and pot.

[Srg.Pepper]

To mods and admins. I'll try not to spew shit all over your fourms, just in this thread if possible. Thank you very much for keeping it open for so so long.

Hmm, to shit post or not to shit post.

[GroinMonger8]

Terracosmo dont make such a big fuss.

Srg.Pepper has a good point. The anime producers could spend a little more time and money in the shit they feed us. My balls smell, Im going to take a hot bath.

-GroinMonger8

[Srg.Pepper]

Maybe if you stopped rubbing loation on them they wouldn't smell.

[GroinMonger8]

Go fuck yourself.:)

That's enough. You can both take a couple days vacation. We don't appreciate people who sign up just to troll the forums.
-KitKat

[Assertn]

Important fact: While American television is aired in seasons, Japanese television runs year long. What does this mean to us, kiddies?



Our industry can afford to put twice as much time into the making each episode.

If you can't argue my points any more, then I don't see a reason for this thread to still be open.

[Lefty]

Ok I kinda dropped in on this thread and wow Srg your really asking to get you butt plugged by all of us. But digress, animation is a very complex progress that takes time so they might skip and step or two where they can. But you should also know that some sereis have specific styles like ONE PIECE which gets its source materal form a MANGA so they will stick to that style of drawing ot keep the original feel of the comic. So Im done here hope this helps.

[kippykinkel]

so let me get this straight, according to srg, anime requires less effort to draw than other cartoon types. wow, than those animators are hella fucking smart because they found a method of working less while producing better looking animation, IMO. i find that animes have a certain aesthetic quality that other animation types lack. maybe its their faces, maybe its the giant boobs bouncing everywhere, either way, i like it. in conclusion, it all looks good.

[complich8]

wtf was this thread all about?

OK. Facts of life time.

(1) The production values of Japanese anime are at least on par with American animation of comparable purpose. Movies get movie budgets, loads of time and effort, and generally end up pretty well-done. TV gets a much lower budget, not so much time and effort, and often has spotty quality. What was the last american-made cartoon that you watched? Taken a gander at Spongebob? Or the miscellaneous random crap that the Disney channel and Nickelodeon air on a daily basis?
(2) Nearly everything on the internet is a business, and has a business model. If it's got a broad userbase, they're just waiting to figure out how to either mine out the data and sell it, or load it up with ads, or exploit the community to get a portion of them to sign up for a pay service, or they're fishing for donations in the hope that something the owners like will pay for itself. (Incidentally, this includes Gotwoot, which is basically a failed business ... we tried the donations thing for a while, but it didn't work out too well for us ... and if anyone remembers the uda experiment ... ).
(3) Businesses, ALL businesses, are about profit. Some of them don't immediately appear to be ... digg, youtube for example. However, just because there's no apparent business model doesn't mean there's no opportunity for business, and building that opportunity has a LOT of value too.
(4) It is the sworn duty of every corporation to attempt to best serve the interests of its shareholders. The best interests of its shareholders mean both short-term profitability and long-term sustainable growth. In the case of anime, if it saves 10% on the bottom line to do a 10% cheaper job, and it doesn't lose viewers by doing so, then the interests of the show are best served by animating as cheaply as possible. Hence using the cheapest techniques possible for any given TV show, and hence the bad habits of sequence recycling in a lot of shows.
(5) Anime production is generally contracted for a set amount of episodes in advance. The result of this, and of trying to stretch and compress various plot arcs from an already-written story into 13 or 26 22-minute chunks ends up badly pacing a lot of shows at some point. You can find this in a LOT of places -- shows end up being well-suited for 30 episodes and contracted for 24, and the last 5 or 6 feel really rushed, or end up being well-suited for 20 episodes and have to stretch to 26, so the mid-teens will slow down and drag for a while. This is unfortunate, but it's the nature of the beast. This is also present in a lot of the more gimmicky US TV dramas -- a prime example would be the TV show 24. The first season of 24 would have felt complete if it were about 12 episodes long, but then at the end of that first arc it felt like they suddenly realized "oh yeah, there's another 12 episodes to do, well ... let's make some other shit up".
(6) Bad writing abounds EVERYWHERE. No matter where you look. Look at anime, look at American TV, look at literature. There's a freaking LOT of bad writing out there.
(7) Everything is just something else rehashed. Every romance is just a twist on the first romance. Every action series is just a twist on real action, which is just a variation on earlier themes. It's distinctly possible that there's no such thing as an original idea, just a new arrangement of already-existing concepts. So complaining that a shounen action series is like every other shounen action series is like complaining that a romance novel is about every other romance novel, or that today's Wall Street Journal is just like yesterday's Wall Street Journal. Just because it's not totally original doesn't mean there's no value in it to the people who enjoy that sort of thing.
(8) Err, terra's an admin. It's stupid to pick fights with admins.

Eight is enough :p.

[Lucifus]

Yea!!! All hail KitKat for taking charge and owning the trollerz! Way to go!:D

[Kraco]

Yea!!! All hail KitKat for taking charge and owning the trollerz! Way to go!:D

And so broke the image I had of KitKat as the most benevolent and amiable of moderators... (I'm sure there are admins/mods who do absolutely no moderating, but that doesn't count one way or the other.) Well, on the other hand I guess it's fitting KitKat is saying have a couple of days break...

This thread is so miserable to begin with that I don't think there's much to add here. Honestly complich8 invested too much thought and time in this thing by writing such a good post.

[Terracosmo]

Damn, Kit was first. I hope that the vacation those two fuckups received was long enough. If possible I'd like them to not come back at all.

Pepper, you are so incredibly stupid. Nobody here has anything against a good discussion. But if you cannot see that your posts constantly contain offensive stuff, then... yeah. If you want to discuss things, why not do it in a more proper way?

Furthermore, double posts and even admitting that you are shitposting...

Why do I put up with this?¨

Fuck this topic and fuck people in general.