episode 23,24,25 discussion

[jing]

Originally posted by: Knives122

Originally posted by: drag0nf1am3
Well i believe that neo is a clone of Mwu unless there some incredible way he survive a head-on blast with a positron cannon...which would be stupid. Also Rey is Rau's clone and that was a young Rau talking to the chairman since he his Mwu father's clone so the family resemblance is there.Eh what do i know i'm new ehehehhe

well thats a reasonable argument, but if I remember correctly Kira survived Athrun's infamous "Gundam Self Destruction technique" while part of the cock-pit was exposed and he only got out of that with a scracth, and if you notice in the new ending, Neo isnt in there at all when they show every character from both series all I saw was Mwu

hmmmmmm I wonder why

You need to rewatch ending carefully.

[Guardian_2000]

Originally posted by: jing

Originally posted by: Knives122

Originally posted by: drag0nf1am3
Well i believe that neo is a clone of Mwu unless there some incredible way he survive a head-on blast with a positron cannon...which would be stupid. Also Rey is Rau's clone and that was a young Rau talking to the chairman since he his Mwu father's clone so the family resemblance is there.Eh what do i know i'm new ehehehhe

well thats a reasonable argument, but if I remember correctly Kira survived Athrun's infamous "Gundam Self Destruction technique" while part of the cock-pit was exposed and he only got out of that with a scracth, and if you notice in the new ending, Neo isnt in there at all when they show every character from both series all I saw was Mwu

hmmmmmm I wonder why

You need to rewatch ending carefully.

Perhaps you do. Where in the 2 pan shots of characters from past and present does it show Neo?

[Knives122]

*rewatches the ed again*

sorry to crush your hopes and dreams, but if you're talking about the person next to Rey next to the tree, thats Rau(he has on a white suit, come'on); you should've noticed that first time around instead of mistaking him for Neo. but once again I see Mwu.

Neo is no where in that ed what so ever

[Mite Gai]

hmmmm........I think I have drawn a conclusion:

Neo is Mwu and Rey is a clone of Rau

1) In the new opening Mwu has a scarred body (why would they bother doing that for no reason?).
2) Mwu does his normal grin, but then sort of clenches his teeth which displays pain.
3) In the new ending Rau is next to Rey instead of actually being with the Chairman and Talia or with the ZAFT pilots.
4) Neo is nowhere to be seen in the opening yet Mwu appears twice.
5) Kira did survive the self-destruction of Justice on the Strike, even though the cockpit was melted, without any physical scarring at all.
6) In the second opening Murrue is crying while aiming a gun at Neo with his mask off.
7) Mwu was most likely the favorite character of SEED and the makers of Destiny most likely noticed that.
8) Rau plotted everything ahead of time and may even have forseen his own death.
9) Rey has blue eyes and blond hair just like Rau most likely did due to the fact he was a clone of Mwu's father.
10) Rey is able to easily dodge the funnels which takes the same degree of multi-targeting ability as it does to use them which is a feat only Mwu and Rau have been able to successfully pull off.
11) Rey has the same Newtype Reaction that Rau and Mwu had.

My theory on this is that:
Mwu did survive the explosion except was left drifting in space on the verge of death and was picked up by the EA in the area. Due to his critical condition he had to be kept in stasis to heal for almost an entire year and while in stasis had his memories edited with a newly developed system that is the one they now currently use on Stellar, Auel, and Sting. When he came to they made him a Lieutenant (i think that was his rank), told him his name was Neo Lornoke, and gave him Stellar and co. In regards to Rey I believe that he was a clone that Rau had made of himself (in ref. to reason #7) in the case that he should fail in causing havok that he entrusted to Chairman Dullindal to raise secretly and only told Dullindal that he had would have piloting skills at or exceeding his level. He of course did not tell Dullindal of his secret intentions to cause the annihilation of the human race.

And that is my theory on the Neo is Mwu and Rey's Secret paradoxes.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Mite Gai
9) Rey has blue eyes and blond hair just like Rau most likely did due to the fact he was a clone of Mwu's father.

First, when did we ever see Rau's eyes?

My theory on this is that:
Mwu did survive the explosion except was left drifting in space on the verge of death and was picked up by the EA in the area. Due to his critical condition he had to be kept in stasis to heal for almost an entire year and while in stasis had his memories edited with a newly developed system that is the one they now currently use on Stellar, Auel, and Sting. When he came to they made him a Lieutenant (i think that was his rank), told him his name was Neo Lornoke, and gave him Stellar and co. In regards to Rey I believe that he was a clone that Rau had made of himself (in ref. to reason #7) in the case that he should fail in causing havok that he entrusted to Chairman Dullindal to raise secretly and only told Dullindal that he had would have piloting skills at or exceeding his level. He of course did not tell Dullindal of his secret intentions to cause the annihilation of the human race.

And that is my theory on the Neo is Mwu and Rey's Secret paradoxes.

Assuming you have the generally right idea, I would acctually guess that it was Dullindal that retrieved Mwu's body. Also, just my opinion, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dullindal was working towards the whole annihilation thing with Rau. I don't have Seed available to watch right now (a friend is borrowing my DVDs) but remember when "someone" gave the disk with the Neutron Jammer Canceller to Rau.

Personally I'm still inclined to believe that Mwu is not Neo. I think the biggest clue to Neo's Identity is his last name. I don't know if Lornoke is the official spelling or not, but if it is, I think there is something there we aren't seeing. I'm going this route because of the first name, "Neo" or New. If someone that can read Japanese was to look up his name you might see something. Maybe compare it to how Mwu's name is written. I'm going to post this paragraph in the episode 26 discussion too just incase no one reads it here.

[PSJ]

mwu didnt have his helmet he couldnt have survived drifting in space. kira escaped before, BEFORE the self destruction thing blew. it was explained fairly well. Mwu got hit by a lohrengreen and took the hit without moving doing the hero thing, if he survived it would ruin his character a hell of alot. oh and the dude in the flashback of 25 with rey is clearly not rau check the hair color dumbass, rau and rey got the same color and neo and mwu. the color in the flashback is the same as neo and mwu so its neo and not mwu since at that time mwu was an ace pilot of the EA if you dont suggest that he were at to places at the same time with diffrent hair styles. other than that i guess its possible for mwu to hold his breath swim down to earth and fall right down on a pile of sand or something and survive just to be picked up by the EA and then brainwashed.

[Terracosmo]

"other than that i guess its possible for mwu to hold his breath swim down to earth and fall right down on a pile of sand or something and survive just to be picked up by the EA and then brainwashed."

Wow, did you just steal one of Guardian's theories? Ehm, I mean evidence...

[PSJ]

yea i saw him when he got out of class yesterday he was talking to himself about something like that, dont know if its really what he said but i guess he can tell us himself once he gets here.

[telemari]

Originally posted by: Mite Gai
5) Kira did survive the self-destruction of Justice on the Strike, even though the cockpit was melted, without any physical scarring at all.

Unlike Kira, Mwu was a human.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
kira escaped before, BEFORE the self destruction thing blew. it was explained fairly well.

I can confirm that this is NOT true. Pick up the Gundam SEED Astray Manga. It shows what happened with Kira in the aftermath of the final battle vs Aegis. Kira was definately still in the cockpit of Strike.

[Mite Gai]

DUDE JIRAIYA CALM DOWN. Excuse me for posting my own random theories, in the future I will be sure not to post at all lol. And I have the Astray manga so thats why I assumed that Kira was still in the cockpit. Oh and I was saying that Rau gave Dullindal the clone and that since Mwu and Rau are technically the same genetically other than Rau is a coordinator they could very well have the same eye color which is where i assumed that. Man its like you and terra want to start a flame war lol.

[PSJ]

okay curium. then thats stupid kira should have died. hell fuck that astray manga, how could they be that stupid to make him live even tho he was in the cockpit?

im calm its not like him sitting here screaming and trying to punch you through my screen or something and i didnt say anything about raus eye color read my post and you'll know im talking about HAIR color. i cant speak for terra but i dont want to start a flame war i just want to know what makes people thnk that mwu can take something like a lohrengreen head on and survive and he isnt even a main character, if it was kira he might have survived but he would have his helmet on. to me that floating helmet more or less says "mwu is dead" unless he is something other than a human. if mwu survived and lost his memory to name himself neo lorrnoke they better come up with a really good explaination. i just dont buy this bullshit that he took that hit head on and survived without a helmet to be picked up in the middle of a giant battle where both sides lost most of their military forces, i mean you dont go looking for a deserter even if he is a little better than your average pilot and you definitely dont try to salvage a strike in a situation like that.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Mite Gai
Man its like you and terra want to start a flame war lol.

Eh?

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i didnt say anything about raus eye color read my post and you'll know im talking about HAIR color.

The Eye color thing was in response to my post i think. In his list of "proof" he included it as #9. Scroll up a little and you will see it. I responded that I don't remember ever seeing Rau's eyes.

[PSJ]

k well he adressed it to me with his first sentence in CAPS i dont remember seeing rau's eyes either, he always had his mask.

[Mite Gai]

I know the eye color was an assumption with that theory all I was really doing was spitballin in a organized way.