Who is really the STRONGEST

[Rhanfahl]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
but how many poeple do you think can acctually perform the jutsu the 3rd and 4th used?

Any1 notice that kakashi has only used 4 or 5 classification of moves.
1. would be chidori or raiki.
2. would be some konoha moves (wait have we seen any of these by him? for example shadow or fire?)
3. water techniques, we've seen the water dragon quite a few times
4. would be his dog summoning
5. if you count would be taijutsu...

technically should he be able to perform lightening and earth moves? i dont even think i've ever seen him use a konoha move.

Chaos, I just don't think we've gotten the chance to see Kakashi use those things yet, I mean he's called the "Copy Ninja" for fucks sake! He's said to have over 1000 techniques under his belt. Cheer up, I'm sure he has a lot, and we just haven't seen him use it. Most of the Suiton he's used was to counter other Suiton maneuvers, he hasn't fought any opponents in the series yet utilizing the other 5 elements. I'm sure has some knowledge of Ka, Rai, Do, Hyo, Fuu, and Sui under his belt.


Crows_Kill said:

Most complete package, oro- more jutsu than kakashi on a good day, no consience, and fully realized talent and ability. Not to mention he's pure evil and has more charisma than hitler with a case of beer. Kakashi would be second over all, and we've seen more out of him too, so he's a proven ninja. I don't think I'm contradicting myself here- kakashi is more skillful, but oro uses all of his abilities, including manipulation, jitsus, summons, seals, intelligence, and has more pure powwer behind his abilities than kakashi.

aint that the fucking truth! And he runs the "rice" country which could infact actually be Nam hahaha! Orochimaru's a communist!!! Get him!!! Also, I like how you give instances on everyone's strengths. I think there may be situtations where even the most ass kicking shinobi could lose due to other extenuating circumstances, I.e. Itachi fighting Gaara in a desert....come on....I don't care how much you love Itachi, it would be suicide... Or if Itachi woke up with a cataract or Glycoma one day? Then he's be all fucked up on weed all the time.

Y The Alien said:

Orochimaru blows compared to the Third Hokage. He had two other Hokages helping him the whole battle and he still didn't dominate.

Agreed, Sandaime proved to me that he was not someone to fuck around with, even at the end...

Y The Alien also said:

There is no logical way to counter Itachi's genjutsu that destroys your mind besides the anime martial artist tactic of closing your eyes and 'feeling' the enemy's position and moves with chakra. Since there's no indication that anyone in Naruto can do this reliably, Itachi would thrash ANYONE in a straight up fight just by looking at them and exploding their brain.

Hmm...yeah, I wonder if Byakugan could get by it since it can see in chakra sight , or if Gai looking at only Itachi's feet could do it? Or even Gaara using that Shukaku sand eye to see for him... could Shukaku be Tsukiyomied? Well until that is found out, Itachi can essentially kill anyone in eyesight.


-Sharingan- Kakashi- said

i rated kisame below kakashi because kisame was taken aback when he heard that kakshi has beaten zabuza. kisame was one of the swordsmen of the mist, so we can infer that he is around, maybe a little above the strength of zabuza, who kakashi beat. i dont think he would have been shocked if he knew zabuza was way weaker than him.

I'm tired of people beating on Kisame, if he's in Akatsuki then he's not someone to take lightly.
FACT1 Kisame is in Akatsuki
FACT2 Kisame is one of the few Mist Ninja of the Shinobigatana
FACT3 Kisame has neither won nor lost against anyone as of yet, at least in the anime, I'm not sure about the manga, haven't really read it yet.
Anywho any smart ninja doesn't lay out all his aces on the table at the begining of a hand, you wait for the kill. We don't know much about Kisame really, and that is what makes him dangerous. I mean those shinobigatana mist ninja have survived as rounins for how long!? They aren't weak.


As for my views, with the Itachi/Jiraiya thing, 1st tsukiyomi Itachi used on Kakashi cause Itachi is an arrogant fuck and wanted to put Kakashi in his place (didn't know he'd be encountering Jiraiya yet)
2nd Tsukiyomi on Sasuke....not exactly sure, kind of a chakra waste since he was treating Sasuke like a fast bag (maybe stupid arrogance is Itachi's weakness?)
3rd Amaterasu, to get the fuck outta the frog's stomach (why did Itachi run....well he was running low on Chakra, Jiraiya had him trapped, Jiraiya was fresh on Chakra and looking to kick Itachi's ass, and has and advantage of all sorts of unknown techniques...that is my best reason on why Itachi ran)

next.

Tsunade
We've seen her in one fight, she's old, she's out of practice, she was also arrogant and underestimated Kabuto, her hemophobia struck, she got stabbed and slashed a fuckload, did a huge fuck off summon, and used a developed technique sacrificing probably 10 years of her life to fix her body faster than you can nuke a cup of ramen! Tsunade is not fucking weak, granted, she lost to Kabuto, but then beat Orochi's ass inspite of her injuries. She doesn't use much in the way of attack ninjutsu, but is obviously a taijutsu master(her form was ass kicking! Her balance and stance great!) Then there is the ridiculous Dragon Ballesque strength. So....just back the fuck off with the whole Tsunade thing before you look like an ass. Is she the strongest...no....would Kabuto survive a second encounter with her....well I sure as hell wouldn't want to be Kabuto and meet Tsunade in a bar after that. Also, did you see Konohamaru's traps in Sandaime's office and how she just walked through there?
Come on!!! You gotta give her props for that.

next Kabuto

Kabuto is Orochimaru's bitch, personal assistant, candy striper nurse, personal spy, (and probably fuck buddy)
Needless to say, he's handier than a swiss army knife when you need to open a can, while giving yourself a manicure in a knife fight. Kabuto has been noted to on equal level or better than Kakashi. Do we know that as a fact...no...not really. Kabuto is a spy, bodyguard, and nurse first. He doesn't get to go out and pick fights very much. But I remember seeing his face in the Chuunin exam when he got cut on the nose and thinking "fuck....there's more to this guy....he's scary" He looked like he was on that "red eye" shit from Cowboy Bebop's first episode! Is Kabuto stronger than Akatsuki members....I dunno, maybe, maybe he's on par with some of them, we don't know. Maybe if the other members don't know about him, Orochi will send him to spy on them next? Its possible, he's not to be taken lightly. The facts are...we just don't know.

next
Akatsuki

Who's the stongest in the group, who's the weakest? My questions...Who the hell knows? and How can you come to a conclusion now anyways? We haven't even met them all yet, and people are automatically making judgments about who's the weakest (i.e. Kisame mostly) My guess is the weakest member of Akatsuki is the nerdy tech they hire to build them FUCKING HOLOGRAM PROJECTORS!!! Just put this question on hold for now.

Orochimaru vs. Itachi

I've spoken about this on other threads and to sum up, Orochi thinks the Sharingan is the bee's knees and just swell! So much so that he probably thinks someone with mastery over it such as Itachi is automatically stronger because he can copy everything that took Orochi several lifetimes to compile in a matter of seconds. Plus the whole Bloodline limit. He want to kill Itachi bad...but he's not going to fuck with him till he thinks they are on equal ground. Who knows, Itachi thought highly of Jiraiya, he may also think that Orochimaru is the dog's bollocks compared to himself. We just don't know.

next...

the youkai (demons)

Let's not even go here since their power seems to be thought of as omnipotent, or nearly anyways. Is Kyuubi no kitsune more power than Shukaku no Tannuki? Who knows....who cares? Will we find out? all maybes. Besides the youkai is only as strong as the wielder allows it to be.

My conclusion:

Since Naruto started we were told that the most powerful of shinobi were the kages. We learned from Sarutobi's battle that they are indeed insanely powerful. Orochi killed 2 kages, therefore Orochimaru can feasibly be considered to be a kage level ninja, as well as Tsunade since she is also now Godaime Hokage, and I guess Jiraiya since he's believed to be on the same level. I've never seen a member of Akatsuki kill a kage, but then I haven't read the manga yet. Therefore until I learn otherwise this is my list of the strongest.

1. The living kages and those who've killed kages
2. Sannin (Just Jiraiya now, since the other two fit into catagory 1)
3. Akatsuki
4. Shinobi thought higher than Jounin (Kabuto, Mist nin of the Shinobigatana, ANBU, maybe someone else I'm forgetting)
5. Jounin
6. Chuunin
7. Genin (The rookie 9 could possibly be considered Chuunin or Jounin level by strength standards in some instances)

I don't think there is a single strongest ninja alive...there is just not enough information available to form anything more than a hypothesis on that yet.

[Mut]

I will complete this circle jerk by saying that Orochimaru, who has killed 2 kages, is afraid of Itachi. Therefore, placing Itachi at the top of the food chain.

[Crows_Kill]

But wait! (insert character here) said he was afraid of(insert character here)!
And (insert character here) said (insert character here) was stronger than they are!
And (insert character here) overheard a rumor in a bar that (insert character here) cousins ex-girlfriends neighbor know a jutsu even (insert character here) does'nt know!
I IS one giant daisy chain of manly love if you try to sort it out by quoting chapter and verse from the anime or manga- the characters contradict themselves, underestimate their own abailities, and over estimate their opponenets.
Pick who ever you want to be the strongest, have your custom pillow case made in their likenes so you can hug them at night and write your own k/s fiction about them, and then prepare to have your hero shredded in this board and/or in the anime/manga.
There really isn't a deffinitive level gauge for determining who is the absolute strongest, least of all the statements of the characters themselves.
Maybe we should start out own power level odds, based on who can get the most paypal contributions? I'll set up the account, just remember- money doesnt lie.

[ChaosK]

rhanfahl that was 1 long as post. And what i meant was, why do u think he hasnt used them yet? i mean we saw that some earth moves were quite useful, the camoflauge, earthquake ETC. so i'm sure it would've been suitable for him to use it at least in 1 occasion already, and lets put it this way then, kakashi is definetaly not an ordinary jounin, he probably is good enough to become anbu squad leader.

[Rhanfahl]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
rhanfahl that was 1 long as post. And what i meant was, why do u think he hasnt used them yet? i mean we saw that some earth moves were quite useful, the camoflauge, earthquake ETC. so i'm sure it would've been suitable for him to use it at least in 1 occasion already, and lets put it this way then, kakashi is definetaly not an ordinary jounin, he probably is good enough to become anbu squad leader.

Actually don't some of the Jounin double as as ANBU occasionally? And I don't necessarilly think ANBU are stronger than Jounin. I mean the purple haired chick called Kakashi sempai, and I think Raidou was one of the ANBU watching Sandaime's fight with Orochimaru. And he was a Jounin that fought with Gennma when the sound 4 were taking Sasuke back. Maybe exceptional Jounin get into ANBU and then if there are no ANBU jobs just run around doing Jounin missions or teach Genins? So maybe Kakashi has done some ANBU work...maybe?

[weakest anbu]

1) a chuunin can become an anbu then later an anbu leader if you are good enough. (ex itachi)
2) calling someone sempai its just a respect thing, it has little to do with ranks. In some cases, a jounin can call a chuunin sempai.
3) raidou wasnt an anbu, he got owned by oro's kunai while wearing the chuunin/ jounin vest.
4) yes kakashi was an anbu. theres a picture of him in anbu clothing with his dogs.

[ChaosK]

yeah, kakashi was an anbu previously and i'm guessing he would've continued if naruto, sasuke and sakura didnt pass his test.

[ch4kz]

...The strongest character ...chakra wise...will eventually be naruto wiht the nine tails....he may already be the strongest chakra wise becuase of this.

But the strongest over all ...I am not sure, I think Itachi is really strong, stronger then Oro, otheriwse Oro would not want sasuke for his sharingan . The kage's all have to be decently strong, but if Oro killed two kages and itachi is stronger then Oro...the ITachi and the akatsuki should be stronger then everyone....but that is not the case, because there has been so many different match ups about people fearing each other ect.

Personaly I think the strongest character we know about is the Boss of the Akatsukie. If not then why would Everyone listen to him and eve fear him slightly?...we may not know much about him, but he looks to be the strongest out there now, shrouded in mystery. Plus supposedly he has the power to control all 9 kubiyubi*sp?

My list as of now

1: Boss of the Akatsuki(he seems to be the logical choice if everyone in the akatsuki listens to him)
2,3,4,...can be a mixture depending on match ups of kage's, sennin, and akatsuki members.
5. elite jounin and kabuto
6...jounin...ect

[American Hero]

Alright, Itachi is fucking intense and everything, and I think he's one of the baddest characters in this anime, but he's not my favorite character. Jaraiya is.

However, since Naruto seems to be all about the one-on-one battles, Itachi would innihilate any of the characters thus far. End of discussion.

[potentialflip]

Chakra wise- Naruto (I don't have to explain)
Physical wise- Tsunade (If she connected one punch to Orochimaru he would have died)
Intelligent wise- Itachi (Knows when to avoid confrontations)
Overall wise- No one (Itachi does not have a lot of chakra, his physical strength is not that high.)(Naruto is not that powerful physically, and well if you don't know he is not the smartest person in battle "well maybe it is different in Part Two)(Tsunade chakra is deteriorating because of that youth jutsu and Intelligent well I don't know her decisions as Hokage of late has been questionable with both fillers being horrible)

[ch4kz]

How do you know that Itachi does not have a lot of chakra...You DEF need a lot of chakra to become an Anbu at the age he bacome one. Yes naruto has more chakra then him...but you can't say he doesn't have a lot of chakra/ Plus the mangekyou sharingan...plus we don't know that his physical strength is not high. From what I have seen its pretty high. Even though he uses eye jutsu a lot. You have seen him use a bit of taijutsu. Yes he has less strength then tsunade. But...there ius a reason for tsunades physical strength as explained with sakura. They put there chakra in there muscles to improve there power!

I know Itachi isn't overall the strongest. Noone knows who is overall the strongest. And I agree with what you said about Naruto and tsunade....but you can't jsut say that itachi's physcial and chakra strenght are weak... I am not sure if that was what you meant to say. You may have just been comparing the 3, saying that compared to the ninetails itachi may not have the chakra to compare ...or compared to tsunade his physical strength is weak. But thats not how I took it...in my opinion you saud that itachi is weak physically and weak with chakra...you just can't say that because there is no proof. If anything there is proof that he is strong in those aspects as well as intelligence...There was no way he could have gotten in the akatsuki without being strong in thsoe aspects. I don't think the mange shringan would go that far as to be the only deciding factor in his battles. If I took it the wrong way my bad....but if not you have no plausable explanation.

[LobsterMagnet]

One thing that's always confused me is the relation of the anbu to the ninja hierarchy. At first we know the hierarchy whent like this.

Gennin
Chuunin
Jounin
Kage

Then the Anbu were introduced and we were lead to believe that they were the super elite special opps of the ninja would. But mounitng evidence has shown us that they seem like there just chuunin and all of the jounin are ex Anbu who've decided to retire. I'm guessing they can be called back into service but it seems like there strong enough to carry out important missions on their own as opposed to the Anbu which seems to work in teams.

[Death BOO Z]

I don't understand what's confusing you so much...
ANBUs are jounins, but instead of doing missions for others (the S, A,B,C,D missions), they are doing police works for the village itself, like bodyguarding the hokage or whatever.
special jounins are ninjas who have a definte role. Ibiki is torture and intorgation, Ebisu is a tutor and so on.

and yes, I'm aware that it sometimes seems that ANBU are weaker than chunins, but that's becuase they can't (won't since they obviously can) create a new face for each asshole that is gonna die just to proove that X villian is awsome, so that when Ycharecter beats him with a self killing jutsu, it would seem 'big' and flashy.

[The Heretic Azazel]

I have a sinking feeling that Itachi fears Udon.

[AznSensation]

I'm not one for posting on forums, more for just reading but this thread compelled me to say something.

You can't judge who's the best ninja, and I do mean best not strongest because there are different interpretations of strength, in this series.

Itachi is a badass but a few powerful moves doesn't make him the most powerful. Orochimaru did kill the Hokage, but the Hokage did have to fight him and 2 other previous hokages as well so does that really make him that strong? Plus, they mention that oro can't get itachi's sharingan anymore but as to whether it is because of his arms or not could/might just be a factor (didn't feel that this was clear in Naruto). It just seems to me that this matter can't be debated because, just like many other people have said, different situations and circumstances can occur at different times. Let me elaborate:

Naruto "defeated" Kabuto but Kabuto is said to be about as good as Kakashi, so does that imply Kakashi would lose to Naruto, I personally doubt it. Naruto "beat" Haku but Kakashi didn't even think he could be Haku, once again and you can't "imply" these things. Gai can open a lot of gates, and if you open them all you are said to be more powerful than the Hokage... Seems like the ultimate move to me, and he can fight the sharingan... does that make him the most powerful? I doubt it.

This whole issue, to me at least, can be compared to any real life competition. Anyone can beat anyone else ("practically") given the right circumstances and conditions, but that by no means means that they are the best. It's like saying a sports team that finishes the season with the best record will always win the championship, but we know that's hardly always the case. Same thing here, just because you have a lot of moves, one REALLY powerful move, have a lot of strength, speed, or chakra it's anyone's guess who'll win one-on-one any other day.

That's it in a nutshell in my opinion

[Rhanfahl]

that's a good nutshell...tasty too

[ChaosK]

naruto's fighting seems to be throwing around powerful techniques and frequentaly they just include kage bushin and rasnegan. we have not seen his new and "forbiddon" jutsu yet but we know he will revel it as the story develops.

Kakashi's fighting includes quick effective techniques such as chidori or suiton: suiryuudan. He only occasionally uses kage bushin, unlike naruto who always starts a fight by unleasing his anger through about 1000 of them. And kakashi never used his summons in a fight yet.

Jiraya uses powerful techniques as well (as we've seen in flash backs he was the "naruto" of his team) except he can control them. we seriously havent seem much of his jutsus but we know he has the rasnegan at his disposal and also the technique where his hair becomes needles and surrpounds his body and protects him from almost any attack (we have not yet seen one attack penetrate this defense) and jiraya controls his summons much better than naruto, we've seen naruto summon 2 complete frogs, gamabunta and gamakichi (or it might've been the other 1 dont remember) but jiraya can summon gamabunta at will or summon the giant frog (the other kind of defense that protects him inside the gian frog's stomach) and also smaller frogs for spying (Recentally in naruto anime) or just a plain big frog with no name yet (when we first saw jiraya)

Tsunade is strong with brute force, we have no seen use any jutsus besides her strength and her medical powers. It would appear she does not know many ninjutsu.

Kabuto has a chance of being stronger for tsunade for the fact that she once said he was better than her, even when she was at her "prime" (in the anime). Orochimaru constantaly reminds kabuto that he is only at kakashi's level nowhere near enough to beat him.

itachi's main techniques would seem to all revolve around his mangekyou sharingan. He is fast with taijutsu also but we have no seen him use too many techniques that didnt revolve around mangekyou.

Kiasame's techniques are unknown, though he has a huge sword that eats away chakra, we know he has almost all the water village's technique.

just some of the people in naruto...

[weakest anbu]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
Kakashi's fighting includes quick effective techniques such as chidori or suiton: suiryuudan. He only occasionally uses kage bushin, unlike naruto who always starts a fight by unleasing his anger through about 1000 of them. And kakashi never used his summons in a fight yet.

Tsunade is strong with brute force, we have no seen use any jutsus besides her strength and her medical powers. It would appear she does not know many ninjutsu.

itachi's main techniques would seem to all revolve around his mangekyou sharingan. He is fast with taijutsu also but we have no seen him use too many techniques that didnt revolve around mangekyou.

Kiasame's techniques are unknown, though he has a huge sword that eats away chakra, we know he has almost all the water village's technique.

wtf chaos are you drunk when you wrote this...

kakashi: chidori is not a quick jutsu, it takes time to charge up. And yes kakashi did use his summon in a fight... it wasnt even a minor fight too.

tsunnade: doesnt know alot of ninjutsu??? i doubt that.... she IS a sannin after all.

itachi: "we have no seen him use too many techniques that didnt revolve around mangekyou" WTF... mmm he has the fastest jutsu speed and activates his sharingan 247. Bunshin explosion, genjutsu counter, katon, suiton, 2 new genjutsu just couple of chapters ago. Yes... we saw a lot of good shits from itachi maybe you were just drunk when you read those chapters. In fact, we still need to know more about the mangekyou... amatersu is powerful but how does it work? is mange deteorating itachi's eyesight? did itachi fucked up cus of puberty?

kisame: how is his techniques unknown? Hes got superhuman strength. His 30% chakra is enough to overpower gai. Hes got a shark face so its safe to say hes only good at suiton moves. Only to you "unknown" is the right description here.

[Assertn]

1) anbu members can be chuunin or jounin or elite jounin (whatever thats called)....ANBU is a specific class of ninjas, not rank.

2) The purple haired chick called kakashi "sempai" because kakashi was a former ANBU member, therefore her senior

3) ok....ive lost count how many times i posted this....but i'll post it again anyway, just because its such a solid theory ive devised....
when comparing 2 ninjas, there are 2 main factors to consider......The ninjas' ranks, and the ninjas' jutsu levels. If Ninja A is lower rank than Ninja B, then in order for Ninja A to beat ninja B, ninja A must use a jutsu that is equal to, or greater than, the level of Ninja B's rank.

Take the Naruto vs Kabuto match for example. Since kabuto's rank is above naruto, he naturally would have won. However Naruto had a jutsu that was above the level of a normal jounin jutsu, and therefore succeeded to beat kabuto using that jutsu.

You'll find that this principle applies to most of the unbalanced matches in the series.
Naruto vs Mizuki: Genin beats Chuunin with a Jounin jutsu
Naruto vs Haku: Genin beats Jounin with a Demon ability
Chouji vs Jiroubou: Genin beats Chuunin(?) with a secret clan ability (which, if compared to the opening of gates, could be considered above jounin level)
Neji vs Kidoumaru: Genin beats Chuunin(?) with bloodline abilities (probably jounin-level, since he knows head member jutsus)

keep in mind that this isnt always a guaranteed thing. Naruto's rasengan missed Sakon, for example. Just that this scenario usually has to apply for the good guys to have a chance to beat someone above them.

[The Heretic Azazel]

I would consider all of the Sound Five as Jounin-level, especially Kidoumarou, Kimi and Sakon.