Well you did not answer my question what so ever there. The fact is, that this is the point of the series...if you do not like it then by all means stop watching. I mean wouldn't you get bored if they never got stronger and they never learned any new techniques.....yeah it would just be the same thing over and over again.
Can you seriously not conceive of a way in which characters grow other than DBZ powerups?
Explain, how do you want them to grow? Emotionally? Intelligence? Strategy? Cause I am pretty sure they grow in that way too in Naruto, but the whole point of the series is Naruto to become Hokage and that means he HAS to grow in power someway. Otherwise he will remain weak forever....thats just how it works in Naruto.
I don't give a shit about power as it's related to their village heirarchy. Honestly, do you think that the best leader of the village is the strongest guy? No. I'd like for Naruto to figure out that getting stronger (especially by siphoning off the power of an elder demon) actually has consequences and isn't a simple and straightforward goal. I'd have liked for the series to never have introduced characters who can move at the speed of sound and throw 100 story knives around.
Honestly, the point of Naruto isn't "Naruto will become Hokage". If you think it is, you've missed the point in what's a pretty shallow series in a pretty shallow genre, which is sad. Naruto's desire to become Hokage is just a childish reflection of the drive to be acknowledged. That is what he wants: to be respected on his own merits instead of prejudged and blamed for the events of the past. The desire to become Hokage is just the only outer way he knows to show this. The thing that saddens me is that not only do you and a lot of other fans ignore this in favor of "NARUTO MUST BE STRONGEST ONE THERE IS", but Kishimoto probably has too by this point.
Naruto has grown as a character. Nice thing about naruto is how he encourages character growth in the other supporting side characters. I honestly can't wait to see the aftermath of the second naruto vs. sasuke fight.
Sasuke the only person who naruto could not change. Something tells me that a great bitterness lies within naruto's cheerful older exterior.
Well, I just assumed in the end he would become Hokage....it just makes sense BUT it would be a cool twist if that does not happen and he dies or something. But yeah your right...he does want to be acknowledged....but one of the only ways to be acknowledged in Naruto is to be strong.
Care to elaborate?Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
Naruto has grown as a character.
Most of the character advancement done by the side characters in relation to Naruto is "I can't believe I lost to this retard, I better go home and rethink my life". Not exactly a stunning achievement for Naruto.
I just found my new sig.Originally posted by: Y The Alien
Care to elaborate?Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
Naruto has grown as a character.
Most of the character advancement done by the side characters in relation to Naruto is "I can't believe I lost to this retard, I better go home and rethink my life". Not exactly a stunning achievement for Naruto.
The series could always take a turn for the dramatic.
Naruto confronts the Atatski alone to stop their evil plot. They easily overwhelm and violently gang rape naruto and leave him for dead. Naruto psychologically scarred and wonders about from country to country trying to find some way to confront his trauma, but all he can do is run away. The trauma has made his connection with the demon fox unstable so whereever he goes when something reminds him off that fateful night the fox is briefly unleashed and brutally slaughters everything around it. Because of the destruction that follows in naruto's wake he is now a wanted criminal being pursued by serveral teams of hunter nins from different countries.
Naruto eventually finds his way to the leaf village only to find out that it's been completly demolished by Orchimaro. Hinita and everyone else he cared about is dead. Sakura is one of the few survivors and she is desperatly protecting the few surviving children hiding them from the roving bands of rogue sound ninjas. Naruto can't decide what to do he's torn about his past and dosen't know how he can ever seek redemption or confront sakura. Naruto decides to become a vigilante but every good thing he does is followed collateral damage and casualties
that's an aweful example.Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
The series could always take a turn for the dramatic.
Naruto confronts the Atatski alone to stop their evil plot. They easily overwhelm and violently gang rape naruto and leave him for dead. Naruto psychologically scarred and wonders about from country to country trying to find some way to confront his trauma, but all he can do is run away. The trauma has made his connection with the demon fox unstable so whereever he goes when something reminds him off that fateful night the fox is briefly unleashed and brutally slaughters everything around it. Because of the destruction that follows in naruto's wake he is now a wanted criminal being pursued by serveral teams of hunter nins from different countries.
Naruto eventually finds his way to the leaf village only to find out that it's been completly demolished by Orchimaro. Hinita and everyone else he cared about is dead. Sakura is one of the few survivors and she is desperatly protecting the few surviving children hiding them from the roving bands of rogue sound ninjas. Naruto can't decide what to do he's torn about his past and dosen't know how he can ever seek redemption or confront sakura. Naruto decides to become a vigilante but every good thing he does is followed collateral damage and casualties
I have no idea why you wrote this.Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
The series could always take a turn for the dramatic.
I don't think this could have been explained any better.Originally posted by: Y The AlienHonestly, the point of Naruto isn't "Naruto will become Hokage". If you think it is, you've missed the point in what's a pretty shallow series in a pretty shallow genre, which is sad. Naruto's desire to become Hokage is just a childish reflection of the drive to be acknowledged. That is what he wants: to be respected on his own merits instead of prejudged and blamed for the events of the past. The desire to become Hokage is just the only outer way he knows to show this. The thing that saddens me is that not only do you and a lot of other fans ignore this in favor of "NARUTO MUST BE STRONGEST ONE THERE IS", but Kishimoto probably has too by this point.
Somewhere along the way, Naruto's goal to become Hokage, to be acknowledged, has turned into a goal to be the strongest.
That's what the series, like DBZ, has turned into: to be the strongest, defeat the most opponents, save the most friends, drive off the stronger enemies that keep on coming.
What I loved about Zabuza and Haku was that the viewer could connect with them on the same level as they could with Naruto and Kakashi. Neither of them was good or bad. They were both simply tools hired to carry out a mission. Because the series followed Kakashi and Naruto, Zabuza and Haku were the antagonists. However, if the series had follwed Zabuza and Haku, Naruto and Kakashi would be seen as the antagonists. It portrayed the way of the shinobi very well.
Now, you have Orochimaru, a psychotic rogue ninja bent on becoming the strongest and destrying Konoha. You have Akatsuki, a terrorist organization trying to conquer the planet or something. That shinobi element is missing. Orochimaru and Akatsuki are strong bad guys with their own ambitions. Good guys vs bad guys. Nothing special.
I was trying to take a crack at converting the naruto storyline into something a bit more unconventional. Something more along the lines of one of those disturbing indie comics where bad things seem to happen to all of the main characters for little to no reason. I'm guessing by your reactions that I wasn't quite received the way I intendedI have no idea why you wrote this.
I really should have just answered this question first. Well lets take a look at Tsunande. When we meet up with her for the first time she's very conflicted. The deaths of both her brother and boyfriend have deeply traumatized her. Rather then face her problems she's just running away from them and trying to use gambling as a substitute. She'd become very cynical because even with all of her skills there was nothing she could to prevent the deaths of her loved ones.
Care to elaborate?
Most of the character advancement done by the side characters in relation to Naruto is "I can't believe I lost to this retard, I better go home and rethink my life". Not exactly a stunning achievement for Naruto
They both had the ambitions to become the hokage but their dreams were cut short. Then of course naruto and Jiraiya show up offering her the position that her brother and boy friend had been denied. If naruto had'nt been there she probably would have healed oro's arms just in exchange for seeing the brother and boyfriend again. But Naruto shows her through his willpower and determination that the she should not see the lives of her brother and boyfriend as being wasted but she should remember the reason why they lived. She should remember thier noble ambitions of wanting to protect the village. This inspires her not to scorn the position of Hokage but to embrace it so she can live out both her brothers and boyfriends dreams and ambition.
After Naruto owns Kabuto's ass with his Rasengan she sees he's willing to do anything to achieve his goal. She overcomes her blood phobia and sees that while she cannot do anything to change the past she can take an active role to protect the future. Which is why she fights so hard to defend naruto.
Another good example is Garra. Garra didn't just change because naruto beat his ass down. At the very end of the fight when they were both drained Garra couldn't do anything, all he could do was lay down and wait for the end . While naruto was literally dragged himself using his chin. Garra only fought for himself and when he was defeated he had nothing more to fight for, while naruto was still going because he knew that Garra could still pose a thread to the people he cared about.
I think as the series progresses naruto will still want to become the hokage, his goal will be the same but his reasons for achieving that goal will probably change. Most likely something tramatic will happen and he's realize that he has the power to make a difference and will want to become the hokage so he can protect the village.
Geez, LobsterMagnet, I know I took your Japanophile arrogance down a few pegs in the comics thread, but do you have to shit up new posts by hearkening back to it? Here we were in a wonderful thread that has nothing to do with that issue except for where you're shitting it up. Come on, man, just bump the thread with your stupid-ass generalizations in it and we can have another crack at it.Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
I was trying to take a crack at converting the naruto storyline into something a bit more unconventional. Something more along the lines of one of those disturbing indie comics where bad things seem to happen to all of the main characters for little to no reason. I'm guessing by your reactions that I wasn't quite received the way I intendedI have no idea why you wrote this.
Wonderful, except your quoted comment was on how Naruto had grown as a character, and you proceeded to write me a novel explaining how OTHER characters grew around Naruto. Nice, and relevant to my sarcastic remark about your other stuff, but it doesn't help Naruto, who has stayed at the level of childish single-minded determination towards his unrealistic goal for several years now, with minor fluctuations that always end up with Naruto returning to being a bumblefuck. I'm all about gradual change, but, please.Tsunade Gaara etc
And, congrats on putting nice window dressing around the Tsunade situation, which amounts to "He put a lot more effort into learning the Rasengan then I thought he would. That reminds me of the other two people in my life who were virtually identical to him that died. I should respect their dreams and his." Ok? The prime difference here it's that it's Naruto beating someone ELSE's ass that causes Tsunade to rethink her life.
I know exactly what you're talking about....Originally posted by: Captain Grammar
What I loved about Zabuza and Haku was that the viewer could connect with them on the same level as they could with Naruto and Kakashi. Neither of them was good or bad. They were both simply tools hired to carry out a mission. Because the series followed Kakashi and Naruto, Zabuza and Haku were the antagonists. However, if the series had follwed Zabuza and Haku, Naruto and Kakashi would be seen as the antagonists. It portrayed the way of the shinobi very well.
Now, you have Orochimaru, a psychotic rogue ninja bent on becoming the strongest and destrying Konoha. You have Akatsuki, a terrorist organization trying to conquer the planet or something. That shinobi element is missing. Orochimaru and Akatsuki are strong bad guys with their own ambitions. Good guys vs bad guys. Nothing special.
but i fail to see how the story could advance in any sort of significant way without SOME person with strong ambitions that conflict with the ambitions of most of the protagonist ninjas. It just so happens that the only way this would most likely occur is if the individual's ambitions are evil. This is especially true if the protagonists tend to be more concerned about peace.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I just find it very hokey that the Konaha ninja are portrayed more and more like good-hearted souls that are bent on peace and prosperity. They do what they are hired for. If they're hired to assassinate someone, they'll do it regardless of the reason. The way the show used to be showed that all ninja were equals because they were bound by the rules of the shinobi.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I know exactly what you're talking about....
but i fail to see how the story could advance in any sort of significant way without SOME person with strong ambitions that conflict with the ambitions of most of the protagonist ninjas. It just so happens that the only way this would most likely occur is if the individual's ambitions are evil. This is especially true if the protagonists tend to be more concerned about peace.
That element of the show is gone; ninja fighting ninja based on conflicting missions. It's become the good-hearted Konoha ninja versus the bad guys. I mean, come on. Every other country's ninja are portrayed as shady types with no real remourse or regard for others. Even the Sand, who are now allied with the Leaf, are still kind of iffy in terms of loyalty and kindness. But not Konoha. They're all peaceful living ninja who only fight to protect their country. Please.
Once again, I'm still a fan of the show and I still faithfully watch it. I'm not trying to tell anyone they shouldn't watch it. I just following the guidelines of the thread and saying why I'm losing interest in the series. So those of you defend with, "Well if you don't like it then stop posting in the Naruto forums," stop being silly.
- If (and when) Naruto becomes Hokage, it will likely be the end of the series. And if it isn't the end of the series, it would be awesome to see him continue his adventures as Hokage.
Yes, yes. All the fans will want to see Naruto's great adventures with all the paper work stacked on his desk! Just can't wait for this episode: "Dattebayoo supesharu: Naruto o rokudaime ni naru! Kanryoo Shuugi no Jutsu wa ikinasai!" (Dattebayoo Special: Naruto becomes the Sixth! Go, Bureaucratic Technique!)
I actually think it would be cool to keep the series going with Naruto as Hokage .. tons of possibilities [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Unfortunately that would defeat the whole purpose of Naruto. His story is about a journey to prove himself to others. Now, since being hokage would be that goal, I think there would be no point in it. But, of course, he might have to prove himself as the hokage then...
who says goals can't change?
In FMA, Ed and Al's goals throught 90% of the series was to get their bodies back, but then near the end Ed changes his ultimate goal to something more selfless like ridding the homunculus and the sins of alchemy.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
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