249 out

[SK]

shoulda brought out the demon

[Mut]

All the people with the Youma are fucked, including Naruto. Itachi will put Naruto to sleep before Naruto can bust out his lame kage bunshin.

[Uchiha Barles]

Dammit. I guess he lost. Not that it means anything at all, but I'll console myself with believing that if this fight had happened away from the village, Gaara would've won. Also, if the other so-called jounin weren't so useless, that stupid bomb would've been a non- issue. I mean come on, it should be suicide soloing an entire village of ninja, even for akatsuki memebers. Wtf was everyone else doing (yeah, watching, I know).

[kaigan]

gaara pretends to be captured so they can fight somewhere else since he doesn't want to harm the village.
naruto will arrive in time and fight along with gaara *i hope*

[Mut]

Originally posted by: kaigan
gaara pretends to be captured so they can fight somewhere else since he doesn't want to harm the village.
naruto will arrive in time and fight along with gaara *i hope*

Nope, not happening.

[jing]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
Dammit. I guess he lost. Not that it means anything at all, but I'll console myself with believing that if this fight had happened away from the village, Gaara would've won. Also, if the other so-called jounin weren't so useless, that stupid bomb would've been a non- issue. I mean come on, it should be suicide soloing an entire village of ninja, even for akatsuki memebers. Wtf was everyone else doing (yeah, watching, I know).

You know that.......Gaara without homefield advantage = shooting practice for akatsuki.

[Uchiha Barles]

[

You know that.......Gaara without homefield advantage = shooting practice for akatsuki.[/quote]

Nah. In the fight vs. Kimimaro, he said it takes no effort at all for him to make sand from dirt, so, its kinda like he has "homefield advantage" wherever there's dirt. Desert, forest, anywhere not urban. And, at least against that particular akatsuki member, I don't think he would've lost in any situation other than one in which he was forced to sacrifice himself for others.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
Nah. In the fight vs. Kimimaro, he said it takes no effort at all for him to make sand from dirt, so, its kinda like he has "homefield advantage" wherever there's dirt. Desert, forest, anywhere not urban. And, at least against that particular akatsuki member, I don't think he would've lost in any situation other than one in which he was forced to sacrifice himself for others.

Gaara would've lost anyway. That's just the way story goes.

Anyway, If you bring in the "oh, he had to save those villagers" excuse, I'm gonna have to say that the Akatsuki member was at a bigger disadvantage, not Gaara. All those villagers could've attacked and distracted bird bitch and Gaara could've went in for a hit. Gaara isn't a smart fighter, he's more of the "I'm gonna go all out with my power and crush you" type. Gaara is talented but he is just an extremely poor strategist.

[Uchiha Barles]

Gaara would've lost anyway. That's just the way story goes.

Anyway, If you bring in the "oh, he had to save those villagers" excuse, I'm gonna have to say that the Akatsuki member was at a bigger disadvantage, not Gaara. All those villagers could've attacked and distracted bird bitch and Gaara could've went in for a hit. Gaara isn't a smart fighter, he's more of the "I'm gonna go all out with my power and crush you" type. Gaara is talented but he is just an extremely poor strategist.[/quote]

On the basis of skill and power, gaara seems to have owned that akatsuki character. There's just no doubt about it from where I stand. And he was smart enough to look out the window and realize that those "birds" didn't exist in the desert. I really can't argue about his strategic ability though, he's never had to use much of it. And yes, the story required him to lose, but, I'm gonna go ahead and say he lost in that particular way to that particular character, because given what was shown, no other way is believable. About the villagers being a bunch of useless, needy vaginas, well, you've nailed that one. The akatsuki member really should've been a disadvange. So, in actuality, I don't even find this defeat of gaara to be believable. He shouldn't have lost, at all.

[jing]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
[

You know that.......Gaara without homefield advantage = shooting practice for akatsuki.

Nah. In the fight vs. Kimimaro, he said it takes no effort at all for him to make sand from dirt, so, its kinda like he has "homefield advantage" wherever there's dirt. Desert, forest, anywhere not urban. And, at least against that particular akatsuki member, I don't think he would've lost in any situation other than one in which he was forced to sacrifice himself for others.[/quote]

It's not homefield advantage, you never see Gaara use such a big wave of sand. You KNOW how big that was right...........................................

[Borg-Sy]

I frankly don't see this completely as Gaara's lost...
Considering that it's like going... "Yeah, I captured him... BUT he totally destroyed my arm..."
If you noticed when Gaara was falling his armor was damaged and all, but hell, not nearly as bad as Lee had damaged it in the preliminary matches... And Gaara still walk out from that like nothing had happened in that match.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: Borg-Sy
I frankly don't see this completely as Gaara's lost...
Considering that it's like going... "Yeah, I captured him... BUT he totally destroyed my arm..."
If you noticed when Gaara was falling his armor was damaged and all, but hell, not nearly as bad as Lee had damaged it in the preliminary matches... And Gaara still walk out from that like nothing had happened in that match.

the winner of the fight is determined buy who acheived their goals. birdeyes goal: capture gaara. gaaras goal: defend himself and/or kill bird eye. breaking bird eyes arm wasnt the goal and doesnt mean jack shit unless hes dead. look ath neji versus kidoumaru. sure neji ended up with 2 huge holes in his body, but kidomaru ended up dead... who was the winner of that fight?

[Death BOO Z]

i didn't like how they spoon fed us with gaara's change, they could sum it up in a few sentences and get it over with, and they wouldn't have made me feel like i'm watching the 'and remember kids, don't touch drugs' corner...

it was like " i was bad, and then naruto came and made me change since he kicked my head really hard, so now i see the light, since the kick also got to the seeing center in my brain, and anyway, i decided to be the same as naruto, so i'll also fight to protect my viillage, and i also became the kage,so in a way, I already beat him, since i'm the kazakage and he's still a genin, but putting that aside, i'm now just like him, and it's really emotional, so cry, dammit! cry!"

too long.

they could've put it something banal like "this is what you would've done, right, naruto?"

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
i didn't like how they spoon fed us with gaara's change, they could sum it up in a few sentences and get it over with, and they wouldn't have made me feel like i'm watching the 'and remember kids, don't touch drugs' corner...

it was like " i was bad, and then naruto came and made me change since he kicked my head really hard, so now i see the light, since the kick also got to the seeing center in my brain, and anyway, i decided to be the same as naruto, so i'll also fight to protect my viillage, and i also became the kage,so in a way, I already beat him, since i'm the kazakage and he's still a genin, but putting that aside, i'm now just like him, and it's really emotional, so cry, dammit! cry!"

too long.

they could've put it something banal like "this is what you would've done, right, naruto?"

What were you expecting from a manga like this???

I was expecting more than they said about his change.

[Death BOO Z]

they wasted 4 pages on something which should've taken no more than one.
the same message could've been tranfered to us with kankaru saying that they (the villiagers) still hate gaara, and then gaara would say that even so, he must follow his way to true achknowledgment, and then look at some spiral thing and say "just like you..."

and bang! the message is clear, no need to drag it all over, i hate being spoon fed with obvious information, makes me feel like an anime watcher.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: RasenDori
the winner of the fight is determined buy who acheived their goals. birdeyes goal: capture gaara. gaaras goal: defend himself and/or kill bird eye. breaking bird eyes arm wasnt the goal and doesnt mean jack shit unless hes dead.

I'd say Gaara's goal wasn't to necessarily look after himself or kill the enemy, it was just to protect his village and he did that. So IMHO he acheived his goal.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn

Originally posted by: RasenDori
the winner of the fight is determined buy who acheived their goals. birdeyes goal: capture gaara. gaaras goal: defend himself and/or kill bird eye. breaking bird eyes arm wasnt the goal and doesnt mean jack shit unless hes dead.

I'd say Gaara's goal wasn't to necessarily look after himself or kill the enemy, it was just to protect his village and he did that. So IMHO he acheived his goal.

however the akatsuki goal was never to attack the village. if gaara was trying to defend the village then he had the wrong goal from the get go. by your logic if bird eye never used nuber 18 and still man handled gaara he would have won. which is totally not the case.

[kAi]

Originally posted by: RasenDori

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn

Originally posted by: RasenDori
the winner of the fight is determined buy who acheived their goals. birdeyes goal: capture gaara. gaaras goal: defend himself and/or kill bird eye. breaking bird eyes arm wasnt the goal and doesnt mean jack shit unless hes dead.

I'd say Gaara's goal wasn't to necessarily look after himself or kill the enemy, it was just to protect his village and he did that. So IMHO he acheived his goal.

however the akatsuki goal was never to attack the village. if gaara was trying to defend the village then he had the wrong goal from the get go. by your logic if bird eye never used nuber 18 and still man handled gaara he would have won. which is totally not the case.

The Akatsuki were planning on just walking in there? Gaara had the right straight of mind from the get go, someone had killed some of his people he see's the person, and fights this person to protect his village. An enemy will use any means necessary to defeat their opponent, including attacking the village. Gaara also has to be conscious about his attacks, he could kill or endanger (Shukaku for one) the lives of his people.

edit to below: I don't think anyone would. You would go down fighting, or use the tactical retreat.

[Uchiha Barles]

Captain Grammar:

We know to a certain extent how naruto's demon was put into naruto, and we know that the nine-tails would die if naruto died, because 9-tails itself said so. What we don't know is "biological" relationship gaara has with the shukaku. I can't remember one instance where they said if gaara dies shukaku dies. Maybe its true, but its entirely possible that shukaku gets released upon gaaras death, or, just remains sealed within the body. We don't know, because no ones ever said anything about it, so you can't make that conclusion, or base any arguments on it.

Edit to Borg: Gaara lost. At this point, if bird girl wanted him dead, he'd be dead. That's complete and utter defeat.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
Captain Grammar:

We know to a certain extent how naruto's demon was put into naruto, and we know that the nine-tails would die if naruto died, because 9-tails itself said so. What we don't know is "biological" relationship gaara has with the shukaku. I can't remember one instance where they said if gaara dies shukaku dies. Maybe its true, but its entirely possible that shukaku gets released upon gaaras death, or, just remains sealed within the body. We don't know, because no ones ever said anything about it, so you can't make that conclusion, or base any arguments on it.

Edit to Borg: Gaara lost. At this point, if bird girl wanted him dead, he'd be dead. That's complete and utter defeat.

actually this recalls to me an interesting detail i forgot about concerning shukaku and gaara......

the spirit of shukaku was fused into gaara using the ashes of a sand priest.....
this means that shukaku is capable of existing in a body that has even been so far as to be cremated!


DBZ: suck it up man.....kishimoto and anime production companies can throw in or chop off whatever they want in order to allow the episode/chapter to end at a good breaking point. It would just be plain dumb to use up less pages with flashback just so they can add one or 2 more frames and cut off the chapter at a really awkward place.


Edit: oh, and something to support the argument about shukaku not coming out as a result of gaara losing consciousness....
also keep in mind, that part of the process involves gaara going through a transformation to take shukaku's physical form. Shukaku doesnt necessarily come out every time gaara sleeps, he just eats away at gaaras personality instead.