Timeline somewhat screwed up?

[Hatake Kakashi]

I think it's safe to say that Naruto is undergoing some rewrites (similar to American comics) recently.

The first thing that happened was they changed the Mangekyou Sharingan around. First it was just three comma's, now it's a pinwheel and in order to get it you must kill your best friend (lame).

The next thing that they undid was Orochimaru's departure from Hidden Leaf Village. Although this can be easily remedied I will say it anyway:

In the flashback scene in the chapter right before the Gaiden Arc, Jiraiya tells Naruto about how he and Orochimaru were in the same position as him and Sasuke when Orochimaru left the village. Jiraiya said he tried to get him to come back, but he didn't. I was under the impression that Orochimaru left after they discovered his experiments. Why would Jiraiya want him back after that? It doesn't make sense, hence this has been rewritten. It wouldn't make sense for Oro to come back and then do those experiments, since I believe Jiraiya said he didn't come back.

Why would they do these things? What is their to gain from it? I believe it has to do with the Gaiden storyline as they will be revealing some major things in it (Kakashi's eye, Yondaime's name, perhaps even Naruto's lineage.) They might not have been able to do some of those things as easily with the old timeline.

I just wanted to see if anyone else noticed this and what they thought.

[kAi]

yeah kishimoto also stuffed up the time when orochimaru left the akatsuki, jiraiya says recently, akatsuki member says 7 years ago.

Orochimaru " because you aren't aware of what i was doing..." - this would be talking about his experiments, so i would say this is right after he ran away from sandaime.

it's kinda like how naruto wants sasuke back, what's the point, he tried to kill him, put his hand through his chest but sitll wants him back.

there maybe some major things that will be revealed in this gaiden, but i i'm not to sure,
it's a kakashi-gaiden, so it might stay with him, his eye, and team mates.

they might say yondaime's name, but they have been keeping it a secret for a while now, i dunno if they will.

[Mut]

1. actually, we NEVER saw itachi's eyes when he did mangekyou sharingan until that latest flashback of him. don't include what we saw in the anime, it doesn't count. so the manga is hasn't gone through any rewrite there.

2. why would'nt jiraiya want him back after that? jiraiya is a typical protagonist who is like naruto. always wants to be positive and optimistic. always believing that everyone can be saved. so, it hasn't been rewritten.

EDIT: response to below:

it makes perfect sense. jiraiya thinks everyone can be saved just like naruto.

[Hatake Kakashi]

There's a line though. Why in the hell would you want someone back in the village who killed so many people for his own experiments?

That doesn't make sense, Jiraiya is an idiot, but he isn't that dumb. Sasuke is a lot of things, but he didn't kill a bunch of people from his own village. He's just a traitor who turns out isn't as evil as everyone things (since he didn't kill Naruto).

[Phoenix23]

*points to the post above about Jiraiya not knowing what Orochimaru had done*

[drcitan]

During the flashback it looked as if Jiraiya wasn't aware of the experiments Orochimaru was conducting.
The flashback prob did take place after Sarutobi's failed atemp to stop Oro. Jiraiya see Oro leaving the village in a hurry and tries stoping him not knowing whats going on. But even after finding out what Oro was up to he still hoped Oro would return in hopes of reforming him.

[Assertn]

i dont remember that part too well....but do you know for sure that the scene where the 3rd finds oro in that basement took place before oro fought jiraiya? Unless they said anything specific in there, its possible that he dissappeared from sight after fighting jiraiya, then ended up hiding somewhere in konoha performing experiments

[Raven]

They looked like they were fighting in a forest of some kind, similar to Sasuke/Naruto, so it was probably the same kind of situation involving Oro leaving, Jiraiya going after him, and the two of them fighting. Oro probably won (but for whatever reason didn't kill Jiraiya) only to leave afterwards.

I know what I've just said is a bit of a "No shit!" type of statement, but sometimes people need the obvious to be stated.

[Winged Dancer]

Remember what Jiraiya told Naruto when he was at the hospital, about how wanting to save everyone (Sasuke) was a fool's idea? He told Naruto that because that's how he was, exactly. And then he failed to make Orochimaru all good again and became kinda bitter and stopped believing in the "saving people" thing.

But seemingly Naruto made him believe again, or something.

So yeah, I think its not so messed that Jiraiya went after Orochimaru after he was discovered and left the village. Even if he was making freaky experiments they were still the bestest friends EVAR and Jiraiya wanted him to stay.

As for the Mangekyou Sharingan... go and re-read chp. 142 or watch anime ep. 82, Sharingan vs. Sharingan. Mut is right on this one - we never see Itachi's eyes until the Sasuke flashback.

What is different, however, is that he uses the Mangekyou on Sasuke after killing all the Uchiha... we never even get a hint about that back when the Uchiha massacre is first explained.

[Kenshiro]

Hatake Kakashi, all of your ideas are stupid.

I dont understand how you can have read the naruto manga and not understood all of the things you are confused about.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Originally posted by: Kenshiro
Hatake Kakashi, all of your ideas are stupid.

I dont understand how you can have read the naruto manga and not understood all of the things you are confused about.

Kenshiro, you can stfu and not read them then.

Oh and we have to remember that Jiraiya would have been like late 30's early 40's when he went after Orochimaru, and not 13...

I think that makes a difference, he shouldn't be a naive person at that age...but if he didn't know about it, then I can see why. It looked like Jiraiya tracked him down though, so he would have had to know about it. If someone were going to tell him about it, they would have told him what he did first. They wouldn't say, "Orochimaru left the village", more than likely they would tell him, "Orochimaru killed a bunch of people, then left after Sandaime discovered it".



That's pretty much what threw me.

[kAi]

[1]
Itachi graduated at the top of the academy at 7
Itachi was able to use the sharingan at 8
Itachi became chuunin at 10
Itachi killed the Uchiha clan at 12, Sasuke was 7 years old.
Itachi became ANBU Captain at 13
Itachi is currently 17-18 years old.

Itachi killed his clan before he became ANBU Captain. [2]Orochimaru Left the Akatsuki 7 years ago because [3]he couldn't have Itachi's Sharingan, this means Itachi has been with the Akatsuki since he was at least 10 years of age (meaning he was a chuunin), and you would say even earlier i would presume.

Now, how does this make sense??
Kishimoto has surely pissed me off!

Referencing
Chapter 140 = [3]
Chapter 145 = [1]
Chapter 238 = [2]

If i have missed anything or something is not right, tell.

[Y]

Nice explanation of the timeline flaws. I say we just decree that Itachi is 21.

[Assertn]

oro never once said that he joined akatsuki to take itachi's sharingan, he only said he left the organization because of itachi being there

it should be reasonable to assume some guy who's bent on learning all the world's jutsus wouldnt need an ulterior motive to join an organization that is working to obtain the strongest jutsus

besides, oro never settled on taking the sharingan bloodline until after he lost kimimaro, which mustve happened within the past 7 years


and when the akatsuki said "oro left 7 years ago"....we dont know exactly when in the storyline they said that
for one thing.
Do we know how much time has passed since the time they first mentioned itachi's age and the time when the akatsuki guys said 7 years? Actually, where did they even mention itachi's age?

[kAi]

Assertn i guess you're replying to me??

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
oro never once said that he joined akatsuki to take itachi's sharingan, he only said he left the organization because of itachi being there

i never mentioned that oro joined the akatsuki to take itachi's sharingan, i said he left because he couldn't get itachi's sharingan

it should be reasonable to assume some guy who's bent on learning all the world's jutsus wouldnt need an ulterior motive to join an organization that is working to obtain the strongest jutsus

who said anything about this?

besides, oro never settled on taking the sharingan bloodline until after he lost kimimaro, which mustve happened within the past 7 years

well why did he leave akatsuki then? he wanted itachi, did he not?

and when the akatsuki said "oro left 7 years ago"....we dont know exactly when in the storyline they said that

this is said in the current time line, where else could it be said?

Do we know how much time has passed since the time they first mentioned itachi's age and the time when the akatsuki guys said 7 years? Actually, where did they even mention itachi's age?

this is simple maths.

itachi became an anbu in half a year of making chuunin

so he would be 10-11

and within half a year of joining th anbu he had that fight with the 3 uchiha
the night before itachi killed shisui gaining mangekyou.

so he would be 11-12

this meaning he is about 5 years older than sasuke.
sasuke is currently 12-13, this means itachi is 17-18

still don't believe me, go read chapters 220, 222

[Hatake Kakashi]

NarutoGuide took the age list from a official guide book of some kind saying what the characters ages were at the start of the manga.

Itachi was listed at 16 at the start, and it's been about a year and a half. So he's 17. When the three year jump is over. He'll be 20-21. The Gennin rookies will be 16-17 (depending on how early some were born).

And yes, everything from the Wave Country Arc - Betrayal Arc has taken place in a year. Everyone is a year older.

[Assertn]

ok first of all.....i dont think you're catching the point i was trying to prove that oro had no intention of taking itachi's sharingan
the only reference to having anything to do with itachi's abilities was when kabuto said "if itachi couldve helped in the war on konoha, things wouldve been different"

and it sounds to me like alot of the discrepencies in the ages from your observation is based on guessing.....namely, with the assumption that the whole storyline thus far has taken place within a single year. Maybe I think a year has passed from the 1st episode to the fight with naruto and sasuke. Therefore sasuke would be 13-14 and so itachi would be 18-20. Then maybe the conversation between the akatsuki took place several months after the fight, and so itachi couldve been 19-21 when they said "7 years ago"

then there's always little details that might not be exactly accurate but shouldnt have to be
like maybe when sasuke said "im the same age when he graduated," sasuke meant "i am half a year younger than he was when he graduated," but it wouldve been lame to be so specific.
And when the akatsuki said "7 years ago," maybe it was more like "6.65 years ago"

[Assertn]

yeah.....ive found at least 2 or 3 things wrong with NarutoGuide already

[Hatake Kakashi]

It wouldn't be narutoguide that's wrong, it would be an official guide book. Which is...official.

[kAi]

ok first of all.....i dont think you're catching the point i was trying to prove that oro had no intention of taking itachi's sharingan
the only reference to having anything to do with itachi's abilities was when kabuto said "if itachi couldve helped in the war on konoha, things wouldve been different"

well even if he didn't want itachi's sharingan, he still wanted itachi to be with him.

Therefore sasuke would be 13-14 and so itachi would be 18-20. Then maybe the conversation between the akatsuki took place several months after the fight, and so itachi couldve been 19-21 when they said "7 years ago"

Sasuke = 13-14, Itachi = 18-19

the conversation did take place a few months after. i think as sakura and that were training and stuff before it.
Akatsuki conversation, itachi = 19-20

still doesn't change anything.

he still killed the clan at 11-12, and became an anbu captain at 13

then there's always little details that might not be exactly accurate but shouldnt have to be
like maybe when sasuke said "im the same age when he graduated," sasuke meant "i am half a year younger than he was when he graduated," but it wouldve been lame to be so specific.
And when the akatsuki said "7 years ago," maybe it was more like "6.65 years ago"

How can you say that?

sasuke meant what he said, meaning "im the same age as when he graduated" meaning he is 7
he is still 7 years old, otherwise he would have said his real age. 6, 5, 8, whatever, but it is 7.

it says 7 years ago, we have to take that as 7, otherwise it would be 6, 8, what ever years ago.