sasuke vs. lee

[DeluxSkillz]

you know it's pretty pontless this whole discussion cuz some people will always be biased, but if you think about it lee can only beat sasuke with his gates no other way dodging sasuke's chidori isn't possible because they have the same speed and that''s why chidori is such a perfect technique for sasuke because he has the sharingan any blows thrown at him while charging in a straigth line can be dealt with due to knowing his opponents moves so all lee has is opening his gates then it's easy as pie sasuke would be thrown around like a doll and crushed

[CUE]

Originally posted by: DeluxSkillz
you know it's pretty pontless this whole discussion cuz some people will always be biased, but if you think about it lee can only beat sasuke with his gates no other way dodging sasuke's chidori isn't possible because they have the same speed and that''s why chidori is such a perfect technique for sasuke because he has the sharingan any blows thrown at him while charging in a straigth line can be dealt with due to knowing his opponents moves so all lee has is opening his gates then it's easy as pie sasuke would be thrown around like a doll and crushed

Ever heard of a period?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Nai
At least Sasuke got to experience the joy of having a family, at some time. Naruto did not. I wouldn't know anything about Lee's childhood, except for the fact that he always was considered a failure, even by himself at times. Sasuke was a genius since birth.

it's much better to never had at all than have it and lose it in such a painful way.

Would you really call charging at a person like Itachi, with a technique that you've not used for long, the logical way? I'm sorry, I just don't see most of Sasuke's decisions to be logical, as much as motivated by his anger, or fear. Sure, he's had his bright moments. Such as the previously mentioned Orochimaru fight. However, all things considered I've found him to be quite a fragile character.

not only did you completely missed my point, you quoted me out of context. i said even though sasuke is a logical thinker, itachi turns him into an unstable character.

[Y]

it's much better to never had at all than have it and lose it in such a painful way.

'Tis better to have loved, and lost, then never to have loved at all.

[drcitan]

Originally posted by: Y The Alien
Lee wins with gates allowed, easily. Sasuke wins without gates allowed, easily.

My thoughts exactly.

[Franggio]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Nai
To be as obsessed with revenge as Sasuke is is pretty weak-minded by itself. Also, let's not forget his weakness during both the Gaara and Orochimaru fights. Fights which Naruto just headed straight into, and one which he even claimed victory in. I will admit that Sasuke performed well at the end of the Orochimaru fight, but still, he appears as an extremely unstable person, often suffering nervous breakdowns.

So yes, I'd say he's pretty damn weak-minded. At least when compared to people like Lee and Naruto.

lee's and naruto's parents, family, clan weren't brutally murdered by his own brother. sasuke has had the worst childhood ever so it's completely understandable that a 12 year old is affected by that incident. sasuke always tries to think of the most logical way to approach any situation, it's just that the author has him always being tormented and harrassed by itachi. that turns sasuke into an unstable character. no one does that to lee or naruto in that degree. sasuke is not weakminded, thanks.

__________________________________________________ __

Wake up smell the roses!! Naruto hasn't been trhough whaaaat did ya say??
naah the whole village wish he could have a little "accident" but he still has the power to go on [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

pfft, I bet my ass youre one of those guys that like Neji (and by that it seems a little bad [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[Franggio]

well another thing that has with the topic to do, Lee would pawn his Sas-gays ass.
The Sharingan helps yeah, but hey, it doesn't predict the future. It reads the possiblility
as anyone who has aquired that speed he/she should be able to counter the sharingan with
ease, it's just like boxing, even if I say i'll trow a straight I know how to deal with the counter
that comes flying for me. Same should apply to Lee
and by talking counter here I mark the Sharingan as only usefull as a counter weapon in a fight with Lee
cuz Lee can only use Tai-jutsu

[Assertn]

Franggio, use the edit button instead of double posting

[Nai]

it's much better to never had at all than have it and lose it in such a painful way.

Then I guess we just have two completely different views on that issue, not much to do about that.

not only did you completely missed my point, you quoted me out of context. i said even though sasuke is a logical thinker, itachi turns him into an unstable character.

Still the fact remains that Sasuke is an unstable character, who isn't especially keen on making logical decisions.

If you're however claiming that Itachi is the only reasons for all of Sasukes issues, well hell, if Naruto had never had Kyubi sealed inside of him we wouldn't even have this show to begin with. I'm judging Sasuke by who he is, not who he could have been.

[fremeer]

umm i remember the first time we see kakashi use chidori, he first uses the dogs because he knows he cant hit zabuza or whatever his name was without them. obviously if you are within the same speed area of the user it is pretty easy to dogde. since lee is potentially stronger than sasuke and of equal speed (remember sasuke only trained for speed not power) lee should have no trouble againt chidori.
chidori is a stupid excuse for a one on one match anyways since it is an assasination technique. all sasuke needs is his fire jutsu, basic replacement and sharingan and he should fair a decent chance against lee, remember how he beat temari? or he can use 1000 years of pain(the shit uber strong)

[Assertn]

first of all.......
kakashi's version is raikiri...
why kakashi would have his own take on a jutsu he created himself is beyond me though.......

and secondly, the whole point behind the chidori, is that in combination with the sharingan, the target CANT dodge or counter to avoid it
people tend to forget that

[fremeer]

um raikiri and chidori are the same thing. just different names, chidori causes it sounds like birds and raikiri cause it can cut lighning. and why would the target not be able to dodge it? if it was undodgeable dont you think it would be mentioned. and it obviously can be stopped because both kakashi and itachi can stop it.

[Y]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
first of all.......
kakashi's version is raikiri...
why kakashi would have his own take on a jutsu he created himself is beyond me though.......

and secondly, the whole point behind the chidori, is that in combination with the sharingan, the target CANT dodge or counter to avoid it
people tend to forget that

Kishimoto just changed the name (or forgot what he called it the first time). It isn't a different type of technique.

And the Sharingan (at this point) is imperfect. You are correct though, since without the Gates Sasuke is just as fast as Lee; Lee couldn't avoid the Chidori. A better move would be to blitz Sasuke before he gets the technique ready. However, again, Sasuke is just as fast, almost as skilled, and has the Sharingan. Without the Gates, Lee is pretty much fucked.

umm i remember the first time we see kakashi use chidori, he first uses the dogs because he knows he cant hit zabuza or whatever his name was without them. obviously if you are within the same speed area of the user it is pretty easy to dogde.

No, he did this because he couldn't even see Zabuza to hit him with it, not because he was fast enough to dodge it.

[wirm]

The hand seals for raikiri and chidori are the same. I'm guessing that the author just changed the name the first time because he didn't want to go into a lengthy discussion about what chidori is, like Gai did. Plus, if chidori was analyzed so early in the anime, it would have been less cool when Sasuke busted it out in ep 67.


As for Lee vs Sasuke, Sasuke should win without the gates. As was noted before, he has Lee's speed, and apparently uses the same taijutsu technique. The clincher is the fact that Sasuke has the sharingan to predict Lee's movement. Recall the way he used the sharingan against Haku and the earlier match against Lee. He was able to see their movement, but just wasn't fast enough to react to it. On the other hand, he is just as fast as Lee now, so has plenty of time to react.


Chidori is meant to be used in conjunction with sharingan because it is a straight thrust. Without the sharingan, the target can dodge completely. However, the sharingan can predict which direction the target will go, so dodging becomes much more difficult. For example, the sharingan's insight ability would allow the user to win almost every game of rock-paper-scissors.

It is possible for Lee to dodge the chidori, it's just very difficult.

[fremeer]

sasuke uses his chakra to keep up with lee's speed, its even stated that sasuke must use up alot of stamina to keep up with lee. and the reason the sharingan is used with the chidori is not because of the aim thing its because normally a straight thrust would be super easy to counter but with sharingan u can predict counter IF you miss.

sasuke would win the fight but not cause of his superior tai-jutsu or speed, he cant last as lee can in a fight. hell if lee gets him in secondary lotus he is just as screwed. sasuke has a chance to win in a short term battle but if its prolonged he will get owned because he cant last as long as lee can.

[kooshi]

Seems like a tight battle here with Lee vs Sasuke.

Lee (pros): - fast speed and lots of stamina
- has a good amount of taijutsu techniques
- lots of power and strength
- able to unlock gates

Sasuke (pros): - fast speed
- has a good amount of katon techniques and Chidori
- Sharingan along with being analytical

Lee (cons): - unable to use ninjutsu or genjutsu
- taijutsu forces him to get close to a possible Chidori
- messing up with the gates can be extremely costly

Sasuke (cons): - not as much stamina and taijutsu techniques as Lee
- unable to use high speed for long
- incomplete Sharingan
- Chidori takes up a lot of chakra and has the possibility of missing

Looking at that, I can honestly say that the winner would depend on the situation. However, based on what I've observed, I would say Lee would win, even without unlocking the gates. Lee can just make it so that the two just run around each other in circles and what not until Sasuke tires out.
Even if that's not the case, I would think that Lee would dodge the Chidori anyways. Out of all the times I've seen Sasuke use Chidori, he just went straight at the opponent. I think the Sharingan just helps him try to get to the target (Gaara's shell of sand was countered). Don't forget, if Chidori helps Sasuke lock onto the target, shouldn't he do so at a fatal area, like the heart or the head? Like Gai said, it's just a straight thrust. Just look how easily Itachi blocked the Chidori.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: fremeer
if it was undodgeable dont you think it would be mentioned. and it obviously can be stopped because both kakashi and itachi can stop it.

they did mention it...lee pointed it out when he saw sasuke use it on gaara the 1st time
and obviously kakashi and itachi can avoid it because they have a more developed sharingan

Y the alien: yes....i know it isnt a different technique
but the point's just the same, he doesnt call his the chidori

[Shadow-wolf]

Did you guys forget that Lee and Sasuke fought during the Chunnin exam before...Lee owned him. Additionally, at that time Sasuke was using his Sharingan, but because Lee was using only Taijustu, he rendered it useless, and unless something has changed...... Also Lee's skills in Tai are superior to Sasuke's. I have no doubt that Lee would beat him, even with-out opening the gates. He'll probably come back with twice the amount of weights on his legs, making him twice as fast as Sasuke (maxed out).

[Hotsuma]

I don't see why people think the Chidori is a threat to Lee. That takes FOREVER to charge, and by the time he's done, Sasuke would be in pieces.

[jing]

Originally posted by: fremeer
umm i remember the first time we see kakashi use chidori, he first uses the dogs because he knows he cant hit zabuza or whatever his name was without them. obviously if you are within the same speed area of the user it is pretty easy to dogde. since lee is potentially stronger than sasuke and of equal speed (remember sasuke only trained for speed not power) lee should have no trouble againt chidori.
chidori is a stupid excuse for a one on one match anyways since it is an assasination technique. all sasuke needs is his fire jutsu, basic replacement and sharingan and he should fair a decent chance against lee, remember how he beat temari? or he can use 1000 years of pain(the shit uber strong)

by the way, he used the dog to find zabuza, because they were in the mist, and the dog can smell zabuza...and besides how do YOU know sasuke only trained for speed? you're just assuming alot. they trained taijutsu, it could have been anything. we also saw that he was able to crack gaara's sand armour so hes definitely got power there. you cannot say chidori is a stupid excuse for a one on one match, cuz then why don't you say the same for kagebunshin, opening gates, kagemane, and basically every jutsu in the book.

by the way doesn't raikiri=chidori.....