Official Naruto Manga 236

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
1. Kiba didn't die at the hands of Sakon and managed to get Sakon scared (sakon was the strongest of the sound 4), and when you're fighting someone as useless as Kiba, not winning is the same as losing.

2. Kankaru is a genin, yes, but he's an exceptional ninja, just like how Temari is exceptional, he was trained since he was a kid and mastered the doll, in terms of power and technique, he's at least a chunin.

3. Sakon was one of Oro's perssonal unit, oro won't settle for anything less than the best. Sure, he might not be as strong as Kabuto Kimimaru. but also Asuma and Kuranei are jounins, and none of them can match up to Kakashi and Gai.

4. Sarutobi trained them before he become Hokage (and don't dare saying that he became hokage as a kid, that was a fucking symoblizem thing, it wasn't a flashback), not in the middle of crisis times, and besides, he trained a team, not an indvidual.

5. I was willing to bet 3 cents that chouji will die at this arc, and he didn't. Kishimoto seems to be a bit confused himself about the future of the manga, so i won't bet anything.

1. he would have died if kankuro hadnt come. and kiba didnt do anything other than getting pushed around.

2. nothing much to say.... he is good with his puppets nothing else. that doesnt make him a chuunin.

3. the sound 4 are no where near jounin level not even with their curse seals turned on. they are at most strong chuunins. how can you think sakon was jounin level? what the hell have you been reading? okay its like this you can safely say that ninjas who only use ONE move when fighting and relying on it totally is lower than jounin. a jounin isnt simpleminded enough to only use one jutsu and they would certainly not start out with the best they got. and by this im not saying that naruto and sasuke are jounin level they arent even near it, they fight without thinking thats not even at chuunin level. basicly every genin has something that they got a high level of strength in. for example naruto-stamina, rock lee-taijutsu, gaara-ninjutsu defense/offense.

4. did he train them when he was a kid? he trained them when he was in his 20s we dont know if he was hokage or not but he most probably wasnt. so what if he didnt train anyone when he was hokage. both 1st and 2nd did, they trained sarutobi and dont come wiht some crap like he is a good ninja bla bla bla. sakura is good at what she needs to become a medic nin so she is also chuunin level accroding to you(based on your kankuro statement)

5. i dont think sakura will cower out she hasnt been in the story at all for a while and fact remains that she is one of the main characters in this series so she will indeed become a very good medic nin.

[Sidnne]

besides, why did Tsunade take her? Sakura has no real talent, they're probably at least ten more genins who are just as smart as her, and have better skills. and just to add to that, Sakura's motivation only lasts for a couple of hours, she just decided now that she would become strong? how long could she keep it up? i give her about two days before she cowers out.

Tsunade said herself that to become a medical ninja it requires excellent chakra control. We have been told since the beginning of the series that Sakura is the best among the gennin at controling chakra. Sakura also has her important people (Naruto and Sasuke) which was the other requirement for becomming and excellent medical ninja. If you read the last page of chapter 236, Tsunade says all of that to explain why she is accepting Sakura.

Hinata would be a good choice also, except that we haven't seen her since Naruto vs Neji in the Chuunin tournament. And she is a Hyuga, so she has the same combat potential as Neji. It would make more sense for Hinata to be inspired by Neji and train with her father to master the Hyuga bloodline.

[Death BOO Z]

She was the best among team 7 at that point, who knows how much of that gap has been filled up by then (alot by Sasuke, and bit by Naruto), i don't believe that out of all the genins in the village she has the best chacrka knowledge.
Important people? don't make me laugh, about half of the villiage millitary force died, which means that they've left out a shitload of precious people that people would want to protect, besides, Tsunade became a med nin before her brother died, didn't she?
I'll admit that Sakura is probably the best among the genins in pure book knowledge, but i doubt that she has one bit of idea how to apply all that knowledge in real life, and i'm pretty sure that she won't be able to stand all the blood she'll have to deal with as a med-nin.

sure, I know that it must be Sakura becuase the story is about team 7, but i'd rather see Sakura trying to something on her own, or at least see Tsunade testing whether Sakura is worthy to become her apprentice or not, this Sakura shift of ideals is too rushed, quick and easy to be believeable, it's like some shitty fan-fiction that a 12 years old wrote.

PSJ, i haven't seen your post earlier, so here the reply:

1. As much as i hate it, Kiba dominated the early part of the fight, he forced Sakon into his ultimate form and even then he pushed him around a bit, sure he would have been killed, but it was hardly a clean victory.

2. He's not 'good' with the doll, Zaku was 'good' with his aircutters, Kankaru is just as good with the doll as Neji is good with his byakougan, and seeing how worried the 3rd hokage was ('the sand team is dangerous') i'm willing to bet that he could become a chunin if not for the war mission. Oh, and he was able to clear the forest of death in 90 mintues (something no chunin could do), and even if you discount the fact that he didn't fight for the scroll, it's still better than anyother team.

3. Orochimaru was comlainning that 'it's taking too long' after half a day, meanning that he fuly trusted the sound four to get Sasuke to the village quick, the other two persons that he fuly trust are Kabuto and Kimimaru. and he also said 'or have they [the leaf villiage] sent someone capable of stopping them?', which again is to imply that he has a moderate amount of trust in thier ability. And don't forget that they're Orochimaru's elite guard, and it doesn't seem that Orochimaru settles for less than the best.

4. There's nothing to say that the 1st and 2nd trained the 3rd, the time that they told him to protect the village is the same as the time when Tsunade told Naruto to become a respectable hokage, they probably kept a close realtion to him, but i doubt that they trained him. and don't twist my words, Sakura is nowhere close to become a chunin, the fact that she was outed at the perimnary rounds (and would've been dead if not the constant flow of people who came to protect her during the 2nd exam) should say that.

5. I agree, Sakura will become a great medical nin and will not cower away, i just said that I'm not gonna try to predict things which aren't obvious (like Sakura becoming a med-nin) becuase it seems that Kishimoto is chickenning out on us, and is gonna make this manga more tradional than i thought it would be.

[Sidnne]

Important people? don't make me laugh, about half of the villiage millitary force died, which means that they've left out a shitload of precious people that people would want to protect, besides, Tsunade became a med nin before her brother died, didn't she?

Why would you even argue about the Important People part when its right there as stated by Tsunade on the last page of the chapter?

And yes, Tsunade was a medical ninja before her brother died... what's your point?

[Ryllharu]

I still don't see why it's so unreasonable that Tsunade is training Sakura. Sure Shizune could probably teach her but if Tsunade is really starting to get serious about creating more medical-nins, wouldn't she want to have them taught by the best (namely her). Also, the various versions have said that other than chakra control and all that other good stuff, you still need to know a lot basic medical knowledge. That could mean Sakura may be spending a LONG time memorizing lots of healing jutsu's and biology.

Does that mean that Tsunade will have to be looking over Sakura's shoulder to make sure she reads the right sentences in every page? No. Sasuke's training with Kakashi and Naruto's with Jiraya required more attention because Gamabunta summon and Chidori are the only things the two learned and in Chidori's case, is a technique that could potentially hurt Sasuke so he to be watched over and in Naruto's case, most of that time was Jiraya looking at the girls.

Tsunade can do plenty of other things while Sakura is mulling through all sorts of books. Tsunade isn't going to run off to some mountain top or waterfall to train with Sakura because, probably, some of the best material to learn is in Tsunade's office or maybe Sakura will learn some of the jutsu's while they are being used on a patient. After all, they said way in the beginning that Sakura only needs to be taught how to do a jutsu once and she learns it.

Kishimoto seems to be a bit confused himself about the future of the manga, so i won't bet anything.

I gaurantee that Kishimoto is the only person that is sure where the Naruto manga is going.

I agree, Sakura will become a great medical nin and will not cower away, i just said that I'm not gonna try to predict things which aren't obvious (like Sakura becoming a med-nin) becuase it seems that Kishimoto is chickenning out on us, and is gonna make this manga more tradional than i thought it would be.

Despite the fact that one of the female characters is a healer, I'm not sure what way you are using 'traditional,' but if a female character is becoming strong, that's not all that traditional.

[PSJ]

i agree with you that its a bit sudden but comparing it to a 12 yaer olds fan fiction is a little harsh. and she had perfect chakra use, meaning she used exactly the right amount of chakra to do her jutsus and didnt waste a bit. perfect chakra use is what a medic nin needs to have and im not saying that she is the only genin that has that and since she is smart she will learn medicin quite easy so she has the requirements for becoming a medic nin no doubt about that. and i have to agree with you that it would be better with a test but that would take another chapter and seeing as you doesnt seem to like sakura very much why would you want a whole chapter with sakura? it would be better to let the story resume and see past this small thing.

okay here's my reply.

1. sakon wasnt at his strongest in the early part of the fight kiba started with his greatest attack so i would say it was a pretty clean victory.

2. i agree with you that he is an expert on his dolls but again just by knowing one thing doesnt make you a chuunin and the sand team cleared the forest of death that easily cause of gaara and no one else.

3. sure they are strong but still they arent jounin ninjas, they have jounin level strength in each of their best ability much like the other genins. a jounin needs to be that good in all fields and they are not. they are good working as a team but when they are not they arent all that great all they have is that curse seal to boast the one ability they have.

4. okay you're right here but its vaguely stated in some parts that they trained him.

5. the traditional thing would be to make sakura strong right? all main characters in most mangas get new abilities all the time and sakura is the only main character i've ever seen that has stayed the same through out 25 vols.

[PSJ]

yea you're probalby right it would be much easier training a medical nin that already got the basic knowledge: chakra control and a brain. but when it goes of to learning hard jutsus it will be more difficult and since tsunade is the hokage im sure shizune will train sakura a little to.

[RyougaZell]

Retaking what Death Boo Z said about Kiba.

Sakon not being able to win against Kiba means Kiba defeated him? Kiba (although I like the char) was running from him in the first place. And was about to get killed when Kankurou arrived.

Only the best within Sound? Those 4 where his guards just cause they used that chakra kekkai... besides Kimimaro and Kabuto, Orochimaru is surrounded by weaklings... what do you expect from a village born months ago just to attack Konoha? They are all following Oro blindly, he doesn't care for them (Zaku and Kin anyone?)


Going back to Sakura.
Indeed. He still needs to learn all about the medicines and other plants... and she can memorize everything remember? She memorized all the ninja code... then she can memorize this too.

Plants knowledge... Ino anyone?

[Death BOO Z]

---reply to "Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya" - 05:07 PM
I've read quite alot of fan fiction, most of it isn't worth the CO2 that it'll release while being burned. and this set of events appeared in most of them.

now, to reply to the posts which piled up over the night.

people say that Sakura is smart becuase she always got a perfect score during the academy, but what you forget is that the academy is the equivlent of elementry school, and out of the forum's population, i'm quite sure that at least 60% had an avarge of 90 points at each test during that time, Even taking myself as example, i've gotten perfect scores in math till the 7th grade without once openning the book outside class, it wasn't because i'm a super genius, it's becuase that elementry school math was easy as hell. So, that means that Sakura is only good at bookworming, she's got no real intellect.
oh, and even though I dislike Sakura (at some points), it doesn't mean i won't enjoy a good chapter about her, I Also hate Shino, but it doesn't mean i didn't like his fights.

1. Sakon was running around and crying for a large part of the fight, first when Kiba went Kenshin on his ass, and then when Kiba went Harakiri on his own liver, and also when Kiba set off the Akamaru bomb.

2. Gaara didn't carry Kankaru and Temari, they went through the forest on thier own, sure, he's the one who got them the scroll, but do you honestly believe that Kankaru and Temari couldn't have gotten a scroll on thier own?

3. They all seemed to have a vast range of ninjutsu, they all were able to to the barrier thing, and they pretty much beat the shit out of Sasuke without pulling the seal crap, so sure, they may not be Kakashi, but they're aren't a chunin leveled ninjas.

4. I'm not saying that they haven't trained him here and there, but there's a diffrence between listenning to a lecture (trainning here and there) and between having a tutor (having him as thier apprentice), and yes, Sarutobi was probably a great ninja even as a kid, and was spotted by the hokage for a future canidate, like how Tsunade thinks of Naruto now.

5. Take any fighting shonen anime and compare it to Naruto: do people sucide and sacrifice themselves to beat an enemy in the cost of thier lives and still survive? yes. do they get ridculasly strong in no time? yes. do they make all the 'he's the super legendary guys who did X and Y' enemies lose without even putting up a fight? yes. so, is it becomming tradional? yes.

---reply to Sidnne 05:29 PM---
peole realize that they need to protect something only when they lose something close to them, so if about half of the villiage is dead, it means that the other half is now more motivated to protect those who're left. Sakura isn't the only one who lost someone.

And if tsunade was a med nin before she lost her brother, it means that it's possible to become a good med nin even without someone to protect.

---reply to Ryllharu 06:34 PM---

If Tsunade was really serious about it, wouldn't she start from some jounin chunin who has more experinece and talent than Sakura? and the basic knowledge could be taught by anyone, it doesn't have to be the hokage.
If Tsunade was planning to dump tons of reading matrial on Sakura, then she wouldn't have had to say 'let me warn you, i'm a strict teacher', she could have just dumped all the books on Sakura and tell her to memorize them until tommorow, the anouncment about her being strict implies that Tsunade is going to spend alot of time with Sakura in the near future.

Yes, i agree that Kishimoto is the only one who knows what's gonna happen next, but it doesn't mean he didn't make a shitload of mistakes (mainly, Lee's sudden recovery and arrivel for no real reason, or all the 'i'm surly gonna die once i do this' statments).

By tradinoal i mean that it's becoming more and more like any other shonen fighting anime, i liked Naruto becuase the main charecters weren't super strong and didn't win every fight and people dies even though they had fans. it'd be enough for me if one charecter would die each arc (even if it's only Chouji or Kiba, it doesn't have to Sakura or Kakashi).

---reply to RyougaZell 07:23 PM---

Considering how strong Sakon was made out to be, Kiba was almost an equal match for him at the beginning of the fight.

The sound 4 aren't just sound ninjas, they're Orochimaru's elite guard, he trusts them to protect him when he's fighting the hokage, they're by no chance weaklings.

Sakura is a girl coming into her teenage stage, she's soon to become too obsessed with measuring her breasts to remember that she has to study. the fact that she got a perfect score in the academy doesn't mean she could handle real matrial, taking me as an example, i was the top student at math in the elemntery school, and i ended up taking the lowest ranked test at the finals.


that was alot of writings, i'm gonna read some ranma now, cya later.

[Raven]

I'm not going to reply to your whole post DBZ (nothing personal btw), but rather this one part that caught my eye in particular:

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
2. Gaara didn't carry Kankaru and Temari, they went through the forest on thier own, sure, he's the one who got them the scroll, but do you honestly believe that Kankaru and Temari couldn't have gotten a scroll on thier own?

Actually Kankuro says to Gaara something along the lines of "You can't just go around attacking random people - you're ok and safe, but we're not". I think that Gaara DID in fact carry them and got them through without a scratch, because this was what convinced the audience of how 'invincible' Gaara actually was. I'm sure the two of them would have been able to compete on their own hypothetically, but in this instance Gaara definitely carried them through quickly.

[PSJ]

1. Sakon probably didnt want to go into his ultimate form against such an opponent but when he did he owned the fight completly.

2. do you honestly believe that they would clear it in that time without gaara? and as raven said gaara probably did most of the work to keep them safe etc etc i mean what can a puppet or a fan do to all the traps and shit.

3. they had the barrier which was 1 move that all 4 of them had to do together and if they had any more skills than they showed why didnt they use them? they are genin class ninjas. they got 1 ability that is jounin strength but overall they are genin class ninjas, they dont think when they fight, they whip out their best move right away and they didnt show any other skills at all.

4. yea i didnt agrue with you on this one.

5. yea. thats what i mean if it should become traditional sakura should become strong.

[onlyelliot]

It wouldnt make sense fir Tsunade to waste time training a chuunin or junin to become a medical ninja, because they already specialize in fight and right now it would be a waste of recources to take any of the capable fighters away from missions. Sakura is the perfect candidate to become a medical ninja because: 1. great chakra control 2. great ability to learn (maybe it is just because she is a bookworm, but so what that is kind of one of the main themes of Naruto, that if you work hard enough you can accomplish anything) 3. she has displayed a great level headedness in combat and an ability to see through enemy plans and techniques, and eventhough there have been several occasions where she is completely clueless, medical training would enhance her previously evident ability to respond to a situation with the technique necessary e.g. dispelling the sleep illusion in the chuunin exams. 4. the only the sakura really lacks at this point compared to her teamates is amount of chakra and a reprotoir of powerful techniques, Tsunade's training would help her with both of these.

I wouldnt expect Tsunade to train Sakura nonstop i think one of the biggest reasons Tsunade is willing to take Sakura on is that Sakura has the will and drive to achieve without Tsunade leading her the whole way. I imagine it will be much like Naruto's Resengan training, where Jaraiya would introduce a concept but then leave Naruto to figure it out on his own (for the most part anyway).

[Edort4]

U know i dont believe that medicine is quite simple as, spin your chakra... (jiraya wasnt a hokage with a village under his resposability so he can lose so much time as he wants) Second i believe that training a medic nin is nothing that can be make in 1 month i believe thats quite similar to real world where u have to study like a bookworm for years and more if u want to specialize.

Tsunade can have 3 or 4 medic nin aprentices if she wants, i believe that among the 100 gennins (+-) u can find someone as "good" as sakura to fit for the job. This would make sense, else is like having einsten teaching only one person and not sharing his intelect with anyone else, quite absurd if u want to improve overall(not only one persons selfish desire, and more if u are the best teacher who has to look for the improvement of ALL the village and villagers).

Its true that sakura has some head for studing but i still dont want to see how he masters all the organs arteries and muscles of the body in a month (i hope it takes her quite some time, if not all the medicine students that study about 7 years will cry a lot [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]). I believe that chakra is very importan to a medic nin and sakura lacks a lot on that and how can he improve that if she studies 8 hours a day, sleeps 8, puts her make up(his lips hair cloths etc) 2 hour, cries for sasuke 2 hours, buys flowers 1 hour, eats 1 hour... Maybe with a time jump it can be explained, who konws...

For me it doesn't make any sense how its now maybe un the next chaps tha thing get explained anda then i can understand(at least in DBZ they invent that thing that every time that they were badly injuried they boost up and became more powerful).

[empT3]

this is all an opinion and in no way gospel.

a) I'm not completly convinced that chuushin/genin/jounin is a sound way of guaging fighting ability. If you'll recall, chuunin was mostly about leadership capability and fighting ability was rather secondary (otherwise shikamaru wouldn't have been the only one passed). It's my opinion that jounins TEND to be on a higher fighting level than genins simply because they've been ninjas longer.
b) As for sakura, it's a manga, does not deal in any way with real life or have to be controlled by how you think it should be written. We've all known that Kishimoto is going to do this for a long time and he certainly isn't too worried about what some american is thinking about the direction he's taking HIS manga in. I'm not saying that you can't express your dissatisfaction, I'm just saying the tsunade isn't a real a person and it's silly to do the whole freud thing on why she picked sakura. It was explained pretty easily in the manga and as far as storyline goes, it makes perfect sense.
c) Being someone's apprentice doesn't mean that you are their sole student. What it means is that you are their servant (for lack of a better word) and in exchange for your service you recieve special/extra training.

[Edort4]

Im not american and i agree that kishimoto can do as he pleases but dont say that is logic or that makes sense something that right now is out from any understanding (maybe it becomes clear at next chap but for me its such a great contradiction from what we have seen till now that i cant understand it).

I was arguing that it should be more difficult to be a medic nin(most of the medics are old guys in the chunnin exam we saw them) than learning combat jutsus, so that it should take more time and dedication. By what u say Kishimoto can say tomorrow that naruto is an alien that can transform into a bath and throw plasma misiles but for me u have to be consecuent with a plot and a way of writting and not to reajust it as u please(its not a law only common sense, after all is only an opinion im not going to tell kishimoto how to write his manga, i like it very much but this kind of things make it stagger in credibility in my opinion).

We will see how she teaches sakura but i think that is going to be a personal guidance (not all the day wirh her but teaching only sakura) that from my pont of view is quite absurd being hokage, if it makes sense for u then that u understand more than me, be happy.

[onlyelliot]

I wasnt trying to say that genin necessaryily have less fighting ability than chuunin or junin (however that is the tendency). I think the most iportant thing reflected in rank is experience. It would be a waste to have a chuunin or junin learn how to be a medical ninja because they already have a ton of experience as fighting oriented ninja. If Kakashi started training now to become a medical ninja, he would essential have to relearn how he should act in battle. It makes more sense to start someone off as a medical ninja when they are still fairly inexperienced rather than waste the fighting experience of the higher level nins. And yes medical ninjas would still need to know how to fight, but their outlook in battle would be more safety and protection oriented than damage oriented.

[Barumonk]

Comparing how strong someone is to a ninja rank doesn't really make sense, if it did Shikamaru would have been the last possible choice to advance to the Chuunin rank. The ranking system is more or less based upon how well you use the strength you've aquired. A Chuunin becomes a Chuunin by learning how to correctly use the strength of his team and himself, and a Jounin is just a mastery of that. Death BOO Z, please don't use the ranking system as a power meter. ^^;;

As for Sakura becomming Tsunade's pupil, more than likely it will be perfect for Sakura in a certian aspect, but it will still be very nerve racking. Its not like she can practice healing someone by using a log, she will probably be very nervous at first, and may even screw up when it counts because of that. With the subject of how Tsunade could possibly consider taking on a pupil... I don't understand how you can ask that. Its Tsunade's choice and hers alone, plus she is the Hokage, whos going to stop her? Was Naruto any better? No, infact he was even less 'worthy' of becomming Jiraiya's pupil, he (still) has no talent as a ninja. He only has a massive amount of potential chakra, under the cirumstances (Kyubi and the sealing method) and for personal reasons, Jiraiya thought it would be interesting. The situation isn't any different from Sakura becomming Tsunade's pupil. Just think of it as a form of character development for Tsunade as well, since you didn't seem to think that Tsunade would take Sakura under her wing like this.

[lee0539]

i agree i dont think sakura was given a chance to learn really good jutsus. naruto was notorious for not being able to do jutsus but he learned rasengan faster then anyone else. sakura has potential but she is only good as a helper not much of a fighter.

[Winged Dancer]

Now that I think about it, the man who's coming to see Naruto - maybe its Gaara. Its about time those two met again, and under these circumstances!! 'Sides, maybe Gaara will kind of replace Sasuke as second main good-guy or as Naruto's friend.

Of course there's a difference between Sasuke and Gaara and Gaara can't just take Sasuke's place completely, but I wouldn't mind him having more screentime from now on...

Of course, if it's not Gaara but Jiraiya instead, I'll be happy anyway.

[LobsterMagnet]

I bet it'll be the infamous venus fly trap man. It would be nice if it were garra but he's not a man yet. If it were Jiraiya well I don't even think Jiraiya is in the village right. It has to be venus fly trap man because he is a man and the way they said it implied mystery. BRING ON venus fly trap man.