Perfect team

**Mizuchi** · Wed, 07-19-2006, 05:03 PM

canadian: stop refering to naruto being inconsistant. Its annoying when you dont back yourself up with facts about recent things in the series (not counting der fillers). Also, back before the chuunin finals, jiraya attempted to teach naruto to control the rojo chakra, and he kind of did (naruto now learns to call upon it whenever he is in danger or sumone he loves is in danger which will come often in tough missions. ) Also, gaara is now allied with the leaf and will join them on highrank missions. Also, if you havent noticed, gran gran tsu sumtimes chooses ppl who suit the requirements for a mission. Naruto can be put in combat-type missions. Also, when the village is under attack by the sand/sound, naruto will be able to defend the village and save lives, which i think is more important than finding buried treasure (excuse my reference towards fillar arcs).

**Canadian** · Thu, 07-20-2006, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mizuchi

canadian: stop refering to naruto being inconsistant. Its annoying when you dont back yourself up with facts about recent things in the series (not counting der fillers). Also, back before the chuunin finals, jiraya attempted to teach naruto to control the rojo chakra, and he kind of did (naruto now learns to call upon it whenever he is in danger or sumone he loves is in danger which will come often in tough missions. ) Also, gaara is now allied with the leaf and will join them on highrank missions. Also, if you havent noticed, gran gran tsu sumtimes chooses ppl who suit the requirements for a mission. Naruto can be put in combat-type missions. Also, when the village is under attack by the sand/sound, naruto will be able to defend the village and save lives, which i think is more important than finding buried treasure (excuse my reference towards fillar arcs).

I don't back myself up with facts about recent things in the series because I don't want to break the rule of "NO SPOILERS" in this section of the forum. Maybe this thread should be moved to the "Naruto Open Discussion" section of the forum, so people can speak more freely about different parts of Naruto. (Spoilers include reference to the most recent Naruto Anime, right? Or is that reference to Naruto manga which is further ahead?... Am I allowed to refer to any of the Naruto Anime that has already come out?)

Anyways, I will gather up a list of episode titles and give specifics, since you are "annoyed". Hard evidence is a little harder to deny.

**Yukimura** · Thu, 07-20-2006, 03:37 AM

You can talk about anything in the anime episodes once they've been released, nothing about the events of the manga should be discussed or mentioned in this topic, that would be considered spoiling.

As to the hard evidence you plan to bring to Mizuchi...don't bother, if you read his post you should be able to see he's not processing all this at a very high level (which might not be so bad) clues like 'rojo chakra' 'der fillers' and 'gran gran tsu' suggest that 1) english isn't his first language and/or 2) he's not that bright/old.

And Mizuchi, I like ramming myhead against brick walls at 4AM so i'm going to tear up your posts arguments for fun, don't take it personally or think i'm trying to make you understand anything.

I think what Canadian was refering to as inconsistancy is evidenced by Naruto's general lack of forethought in any non tactical situation. Go back to the Wave country arc, on the bridge no one suspects Naruto is coming, Sasuke is trapped by Haku's jutsu and Kakashi is tied up with Zabuza. What does Naruto do? Make a flashy entrance, and then proseed to run into the same trap that Sasuke was in, completely wasting the element of surprise.

Another example much more recent, as the Chunnin Exam's and Tsunade Retrieval didn't really involve any missions, was the beginning of the Sasuke chase arc. As soon as it was time to leave Naruto wanted to just run off headlong into the forest without any strategy or plan for keeping himself or his teamates alive. All he though about was Sasuke. Naruto is extremely narrow-minded, which is what makes him a decent fighter, but a poor team member. He cares about his teamates lives but generally tries to take on every obstacle himself, often to the detriment of the teams goal.

As for the 'rojo chakra', having a skill that you can't consciously control is not a plus on a dynamic playing field. Imagine playing chess with a piece whose abilities randomly changed. How could you plan an effective stragegy if you didn't know the abilities of your own forces. Despite what you may think, Naruto never demonstrated the ability to will the Kyubii chakra into him without some dire circumstance and a lack of access to his own natural chakra present. Having to get angry, and thus irrational to achieve you potential is just inefficient when working with others to achieve a goal

The last part of Mizuchi's post gives the impression that sounds like it's defending Naruto as a ninja, listing situations where his skillset would be well suited. I agree that Naruto would be good at town defense as his only goal would be to stop the invaders and he wouldn't have to do any strategic thinking. However this thread is about forming a team to complete missions and none of Naruto's strong points would be compliment another teamate. He thinks on the fly and generally doesn't include others in planning his attacks. The famous shadow-shuriken-clone-kunai attack being the only noteworthy exception I can think of, as it required Sasuke's participation. Naruto's strengths come from his ability to take large amounts of damage, giving him time to think of a plan and his unorthodox plans, which generally achieve the goal of taking out his opponent because the show is named after him. If you ever wondered why Naruto is in so many 1v1 fights, it's because it makes him look good as a heroic main charachter when he gets knocked around a lot, says tough guy stuff, and then discovers either a new strength in himself or some weakness in his enemy and then manages to defeat him.

My overall point is this, Naruto is a main charachter, and main charachters in titles like this are generally loners who have lots of talent but aren't very team oriented....wait I don't need to make a point, i've addressed all of the statements made that I feel are incorrect or not relevant to the discussion. This has been a wonderful half hour for me and I hope at least some people are enjoying reading these little battles. Sorry this shit was so long, but I was bored...

**CapsuleCorpJX** · Thu, 07-20-2006, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Shippou-sama

My only concern is that Naruto doesn't really work well with others, and would fairly adequately muck up Shikamaru's plans. Also, a flaw for Shikamaru is that he may or may not be willing to actually come up with tactics, since he tends to let others take over, and only acts when he has no other choice. Regardless of teammates, Naruto will always try to take command, thus Shikamaru may not get the chance.

I do see the advantages of having him in the group, with a more useful variety of jutsus. Part of his usefulness comes only from the dreaded "in a tight spot" (frog boss). This is another thing to try and avoid, as it massively unbalances any characters performance. Remember, we want to find a team to handle all their missions well, which includes everything in the range of picking trash out of a river to eliminating an enemy from another village.

And, as I've said, my team is far from perfect, I realize. =P

Naruto worked fine with Shikamaru during the Sasuke retrieval arc.

But anyway, my team would be a "paralysis" team.

Shikamaru
Ino
Neji

Shikamaru for tactics and shadow binding opponents.
Ino for Mind Controlling and neutralizing whoever they scout to be the strongest opponent in the opposing group.
Neji to finish the job by shutting down all the enemy Chakra points.

As for the Jounin, I guess it would be Kakashi for the Sharinan. He can play mind tricks on the enemy and cause paralysis that way.

**Mizuchi** · Thu, 07-20-2006, 06:23 PM

capsule: id like to say nice work, that team does sound pretty powerful. although i think i see a flaw. What if there was a large amount of enemies? Im sure neji can take them, because he has very good offense/defense, but he doesnt exactly have an arsenal of jutsu to defend teamates. Kakashi could, but lets say there was atleast 1 jounin, he would take kakashi's attention while the genin/whatever-rank-they-may-be would have a perfect opportunity to attack ino/shika seeing how they arent very taijutsu-skilled.

Yukimura/Rival teams: I do remember naruto's entrance to demon ice mirrors, but naruto did make up for it in the shadow-shuriken technique. Although it did take sasuke's participation, it was naruto's plan and he couldve used any strong ninja who can use large projectiles to participate instead. But the main thing I want to say is I think (not sure) that almost a year has gone by in the naruto series since that moment? idk if it was almost a year but I do know that over the time, naruto has developed a lot. You hear kakashi/jiraya say it all the time.

When naruto rushed off to find sasuke before the team even left, that was because he very eager to get sasuke, and he wasnt exactly in the serious mood. When he is in the right mood and has somebody who he respects giving orders, he will follow them. He might not be the best team player, but he can be the team's trump card. The saying goes, "Never show your trump card until the end" right? Well the end is usually when naruto gets angry, and will be forced to reveal his trump card no sooner. And yes, i believe every team should have a trump card. Am I wrong?

P.S. Yukimura: As you were bored so you wrote that long comment, I too was bored so I changed around some words i.e. "rojo (red)" and "der (the)".

**Canadian** · Thu, 07-20-2006, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mizuchi

capsule: id like to say nice work, that team does sound pretty powerful. although i think i see a flaw. What if there was a large amount of enemies?

Just a thought (to anyone, really): Maybe people should create their perfect team and tell us what the team's specialty would be (like, they would be called as a team to do specific missions). So people could create a specific "perfect" team, or a general "perfect" team (general being the "perfect" team for taking on the widest range of missions).

Still, I'd have to say... if there were a large amount of enemies, in the world of Naruto, those enemies are generally not so strong. If there were say, three strong enemies, I can see his "paralysis" team working well... or against a large group of not-so-strong enemies.

My idea of the "perfect" team in general is:

Kakashi
Garaa
Lee
Neji

My idea of a "brute force" team would be:

Jiraiya
Gaara
Naruto
Neji

**Mizuchi** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian

Still, I'd have to say... if there were a large amount of enemies, in the world of Naruto, those enemies are generally not so strong. If there were say, three strong enemies, I can see his "paralysis" team working well... or against a large group of not-so-strong enemies.

My idea of the "perfect" team in general is:

Kakashi
Garaa
Lee
Neji

My idea of a "brute force" team would be:

Jiraiya
Gaara
Naruto
Neji

capsule's team wouldnt work even against a bunch of not-so-strong enemies if there was atleast 1 kakashi-level nin in the group. Ino and shika cant handle even lowest genin in taijutsu. Their specialties are mind tricks, not fighting. Neji cant defend them and himself at the same time.

**Canadian** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mizuchi

capsule's team wouldnt work even against a bunch of not-so-strong enemies if there was atleast 1 kakashi-level nin in the group. Ino and shika cant handle even lowest genin in taijutsu. Their specialties are mind tricks, not fighting. Neji cant defend them and himself at the same time.

Do you have to argue against everything? I mean, even if it's more right than what you have to say, you still have to argue?

Anyways, I'm not going to get into this "perfect" team stuff anymore. Like it was said before, this could easily turn into a flame war.

**CapsuleCorpJX** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mizuchi

capsule's team wouldnt work even against a bunch of not-so-strong enemies if there was atleast 1 kakashi-level nin in the group. Ino and shika cant handle even lowest genin in taijutsu. Their specialties are mind tricks, not fighting. Neji cant defend them and himself at the same time.

Huh?

Ino and Shika can handle most genins. In fact their special abilities are the most powerful in the storyline for ninjas in their class.

Ino can basically take your monster hitters like Gaara or Naruto or Sasuke just by mind controlling them. This is all theory, it goes on the assumption that she can successfully hold a mind controll for a reasonable amount of time on an opponent even with several times her chakra.

Shika, using his divserionary tactics can get the rest of the opponents in a shadow bind, stripping them of their defenses and mobility, allowing Neji to finish them off by shutting down all their chakra flow.

As a saying, restricting mobility is 80% of victory.

Kakashi, my jounin in the group will handle the other jounin. I doubt any of the gennins' tricks will work on a jounin class ninja, as they will probably just use brute force to get out of it.

**Canadian** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 01:23 PM

Wow... my rep has been completely destroyed by ridiculous "rep" comments... (Anyone want a screenshot?...)

***masamuneehs*** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 02:22 PM

time for a "infiltration team". Obviously i'm just grabbing people at random and assuming they'd work together to get the job done, since this team's chemistry would be the absolute pits if they ever got together.

Leader: Orochimaru
Shino
Ino
Shikamaru

obivously this team would need significant back-up if ever discovered, but with Shino's scouting, Ino's ability to take over enemies and Shikamaru's super smarts (and ability to paralyze, buying valuable time) they should be fine. Besides, Orochimaru would be able to handle alot of enemies on his own...

Originally Posted by Canadian

Wow... my rep has been completely destroyed by ridiculous "rep" comments... (Anyone want a screenshot?...)

no.

and such posts whining about rep hits really are off-topic, not to mention annoying.

**Canadian** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by masamuneehs

time for a "infiltration team". Obviously i'm just grabbing people at random and assuming they'd work together to get the job done, since this team's chemistry would be the absolute pits if they ever got together.

Leader: Orochimaru
Shino
Ino
Shikamaru

obivously this team would need significant back-up if ever discovered, but with Shino's scouting, Ino's ability to take over enemies and Shikamaru's super smarts (and ability to paralyze, buying valuable time) they should be fine. Besides, Orochimaru would be able to handle alot of enemies on his own...

no.

and such posts whining about rep hits really are off-topic, not to mention annoying.

Firstly, it was some-what on topic to this discussion. My rep has dropped BECAUSE of this discussion. People disagree with me on certain points, and bash me for them, just because they disagree (of course, I've done my share of bashing... but I prefer not to bash peoples' nationality, or anything along those lines); Not to mention the comments left are not relevent to why they are actually bashing me. (Btw, I'm not sure if it was you... but I was left a negative comment saying "I want a screenshot"... whoever that was, I can give that to them if they actually give me their name... -_-) There was another comment that said "Stupid arguments should be in private messages"; this comment was to do with the argument about what team is best. That is the entire point of this thread... so it should stay in this thread, not in private messages! The most annoying one (I hope it wasn't you Mizuchi... although, I'd like to know if it was you) was a comment about me being stupid, and Canada "sucking".

Anyways, out of that... Your team with Orochimaru is flawed. Orochimaru does not take orders for missions, he gives orders to other to do missions for him. He could kill Shino, Ino, and Shikamaru in an instant... they would only be holding him back. Orochimaru knows so many Ninja techniques, is already well-hidden... and would never work with them (you did mention this). There is no way Orochimaru would be teamed up with them; and even if he were, all the team would need is Orochimaru, and the other three to do nothing. >_<;

**Mizuchi** · Fri, 07-21-2006, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Canadian

Do you have to argue against everything? I mean, even if it's more right than what you have to say, you still have to argue?

You argue as much as I do.

Originally Posted by Canadian

Anyways, I'm not going to get into this "perfect" team stuff anymore. Like it was said before, this could easily turn into a flame war.

Must you ruin my fun? And the only one flaming here is you, all the rest are in it for good fun.

@Masa

You can't use evil people in your team silly. I mean you can use exceptions such as sasuke or gaara or kankurou but not flat out nut cases. Alteast I think you cant? If you can that ruins the fun.

@capsule

If you are referring to the monster-hitters such as the leader jounin, Ino cant control them yet, they are on a far higher level. Atleast I would assume she can't, otherwise she could just beat oro in a few seconds. Shika cant take ALL of the opponents with shadow bind. They are ninja after all, they would attack from different positions. Ino could take one of them out, sure, but that would leave her body defenseless.

**Alter_Ego** · Mon, 07-24-2006, 11:18 PM

I am gonna stay away from the flames and make a team

Jounin Gai for the smile and comic relief

Gaara
Naruto
Sasuke

**Canadian** · Mon, 07-24-2006, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Alter_Ego

I am gonna stay away from the flames and make a team

Jounin Gai for the smile and comic relief

Gaara
Naruto
Sasuke

You jumped right into them, my friend,

Your team is pretty much what we've been arguing about (for the most part). It's Sasuke and Naruto that have been a very debatable topic for usable on a "perfect" team.

Anyways, I'm not going to go around in circles. I've already voiced my oppinion.

**Alter_Ego** · Tue, 07-25-2006, 05:26 PM

I know I really didnt put much effort into that as u could see but I read a couple pages back and it seems that no people have used my combo so I just put it out there

Any 1 know if the sound 4 are considered genins

**Canadian** · Tue, 07-25-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Alter_Ego

I know I really didnt put much effort into that as u could see but I read a couple pages back and it seems that no people have used my combo so I just put it out there

Any 1 know if the sound 4 are considered genins

I would consider them to be Jounin.

**Mizuchi** · Tue, 07-25-2006, 07:09 PM

y do u need gaara? I mean i know hes a very good team player, but look. Gai easily broke his sand, so at his level its not very powerful. Especially since weights-off lee could out-run gaara's sand, and kyuubi naruto and level 2 curse seal sasuke is a little faster than weights off lee. Also hes not big on taijutsu so once his sand is done then he cant really help the team much.

Jiraya
naruto
sasuke
neji

i still stand with. +)

**Yukimura** · Tue, 07-25-2006, 07:32 PM

You have no basis to say that Naruto or Sasuke are faster than Lee. Sasuke never even ran while in level 2 mode IIRC, he flew at Naruto with his sketchy wing. Lee's speed came at a heavy price to him, and wasn't sustainable for long periods of time. Garaa's sand was broken by Gai, so during the Chunnin Exam he couldn't beat a Jounin after having his ass kicked and using most of his chakra. He's grown since then, and who knows what that sand could do to an unaware opponent.

**Mizuchi** · Tue, 07-25-2006, 08:12 PM

@yukimura

i was talking about weights-off lee. Remember at the chuunin finals, lee said that sasuke obtained his weights-off speed in only a month? Also, even if lee's 5 gates are stronger than 1-tailed naruto or level 2 sasuke (which i dont think it is, but i dont really have evidance, im just saying off personal opinion after watching), lees gates come at a terrible cost and will leave him defenseless afterwords for long periods of time, while kyuubi naruto heals fast (naturally) and I dont think level 2 sasuke takes long to recover (he was fine after the battle). Yes ill admit gaara is a powerful ally, but there isnt really a need for him here. Jiraya has fine defense, and naruto/sasuke have a very powerful offense and stamina. And neji is needed for scouting so there isnt really any room or need left for gaara.

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