Party Balance

[wirm]

Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu

3) Rock Lee doesn't have the strongest taijutsu. Neji does. In fact it was brought up multiple times that Lee's taijutsu is extremely low-level. It's only his speed and strength (from all his training) that makes him so good.

Sorry dude but that was said several times in FLASHBACKS. Lee is now the best at Taijutsu because of his Lotus techniques which are indeed Taijutsu. Neji just has his great Tenketsu and his internal organ attacks, not sure if this is considered Tai but still Lotus is better.

I recall no instances where anybody said that Lee was the best at taijutsu. I do remember a flashback where Lee was the only one to master the Lotus. But that doesn't make him the best at taijutsu.

I recall several instances where it was remarked that Lee's taijutsu was low level.

He and Gai both discussed this and Temari noted this.

Gai said that Lee couldn't use genjutsu or ninjutsu, plus, he had no talent in taijutsu. However, due to his hard work and concentration, he's improved his crappy taijutsu to the point where his speed and strength can beat just about anybody. However, his style and technique are still low level.

Neji's taijutsu has the strongest style and best technique. But being a genius, he doesn't have to work as hard as Lee does.



I'm not saying that Lee can't beat Neji (though it's been said plenty of times). I'm saying that his taijutsu is weaker. However, Lee is much faster and stronger (without injuries) and is probably more effective in a fight.

[Assertn]

they never specifically said that gentle fist is better than regular taijutsu.....they just said that one inflicts external damage and bones while the other inflicts internal damage.

you could technically kill a man either way, and therefore to say which one is a deadlier move, is sorta irrelevant

[micky]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the characters backgrounds when discussing groups.

Hinata, Shino & Kiba are all from ninja clans.

Shikamaru, Ino & Choujii all have ninja fathers (Ino's mother owns a flower shop. Shikamaru's mother seems to be a housewife however they may be from ninja clans but it dosn't seem so).

Naruto, Sasuke & Sakura all seem to be have troubled/different pasts (Naruto has no parents with theories flying who they could be + the whole 'monster fox' aspect. Sasuke's whole clan was killed by his brother. Sakura seems to be the only ninja [bar Naruto] who has no relations to another ninja -> we havn't seen her father or mother but know their there indicating they arn't actually ninjas).

There isn't enough information about Gai's group to hypothesise but Rock Lee's uselessness and Neji's branch family (could be viewed as aspiration to break boundries) are a common ground. No idea about Tenten.

Obviously some of this overlaps with the ninja clans also having ninja familes, Sasuke being from a ninja clan. There does seem to be common ground between these groups though and the most out of place person of all seems to be Sakura who most people agree is utterly useless anyway. Just a small observation.

[Natural Cause]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
I think the only unbalance was in the Naruto group... because it has the "X" factoy in Naruto... only Iruka sensei knew how dedicated Naruto was... so they have the strongest group of all... Sakura can just be discarded... the other two can take on anyone.... Maybe it was balanced through their personalities

The Rock Lee group doesnt factor here since they are older...


But there certainly was some thought behind the selection of the groups... remember Tsunade studying the 3rd's records of the groups

Iruka didnt have any input on the groups. the decision was made by the 3rd if u remember.

[Natural Cause]

Originally posted by: Sanjuro
Hang on a sec....Chouji is the top fighter on that team...and ino is the brains!?? For fighters, how could you not say Kiba? I wouold say Shino is closer to being the brains on that team than hinata. I guess I can accept Chouji being the fighter (even though he sucks ass) but Shikamaru is obviously the brains, even if ino is the "leader"

SINO IS SLACK HE DIDN:T TRY HE WAS BOTTOM OF THE CLASS WITH NARUTO ONLY HIS SENSAI FIGURED OUT HOW SMART HE WAS WHEN HE BEGAN TRAINING.

seriously theres some dumb people in this forum, i hardly even pay attention fo naruto as theres better anime series around yet i STILL know more than most of you.

[micky]

Originally posted by: Natural Cause

Originally posted by: Sanjuro
Hang on a sec....Chouji is the top fighter on that team...and ino is the brains!?? For fighters, how could you not say Kiba? I wouold say Shino is closer to being the brains on that team than hinata. I guess I can accept Chouji being the fighter (even though he sucks ass) but Shikamaru is obviously the brains, even if ino is the "leader"

SINO IS SLACK HE DIDN:T TRY HE WAS BOTTOM OF THE CLASS WITH NARUTO ONLY HIS SENSAI FIGURED OUT HOW SMART HE WAS WHEN HE BEGAN TRAINING.

seriously theres some dumb people in this forum, i hardly even pay attention fo naruto as theres better anime series around yet i STILL know more than most of you.

You've mistaken Shino with Shikamaru

[Natural Cause]

Shikamaru is obviously the brains, even if ino is the "leader"

the only people who really know hes brany are his sensai and kakashi

and yes i ment to type shikamaru but im getting fustrated with the no0bs in here, atleast its not as bad as anbu forums

[wirm]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
they never specifically said that gentle fist is better than regular taijutsu.....they just said that one inflicts external damage and bones while the other inflicts internal damage.

you could technically kill a man either way, and therefore to say which one is a deadlier move, is sorta irrelevant

oh of course.

But when introducing the jyuuken, Rock Lee said it was Konoha's strongest hand-to-hand combat style. Also, Lee has said on multiple occaisions that he couldn't beat Neji. He said (he was probably wrong) that Konoha's strongest genin was Neji.

Kakashi also put in something along the lines of "there's no way to train your internal organs. If you get hit no matter how tough you are it will be fatal."

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Originally posted by: wirm

Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu

3) Rock Lee doesn't have the strongest taijutsu. Neji does. In fact it was brought up multiple times that Lee's taijutsu is extremely low-level. It's only his speed and strength (from all his training) that makes him so good.

Sorry dude but that was said several times in FLASHBACKS. Lee is now the best at Taijutsu because of his Lotus techniques which are indeed Taijutsu. Neji just has his great Tenketsu and his internal organ attacks, not sure if this is considered Tai but still Lotus is better.

I recall no instances where anybody said that Lee was the best at taijutsu. I do remember a flashback where Lee was the only one to master the Lotus. But that doesn't make him the best at taijutsu.

I recall several instances where it was remarked that Lee's taijutsu was low level.

He and Gai both discussed this and Temari noted this.

Gai said that Lee couldn't use genjutsu or ninjutsu, plus, he had no talent in taijutsu. However, due to his hard work and concentration, he's improved his crappy taijutsu to the point where his speed and strength can beat just about anybody. However, his style and technique are still low level.

Neji's taijutsu has the strongest style and best technique. But being a genius, he doesn't have to work as hard as Lee does.



I'm not saying that Lee can't beat Neji (though it's been said plenty of times). I'm saying that his taijutsu is weaker. However, Lee is much faster and stronger (without injuries) and is probably more effective in a fight.

Posted by wirm

3) Rock Lee doesn't have the strongest taijutsu. Neji does. In fact it was brought up multiple times that Lee's taijutsu is extremely low-level. It's only his speed and strength (from all his training) that makes him so good.

http://www.narutoinfo.com/index.php?...ghting%20Stats

That's a link to a site that has pictures from the official book out now of Naruto characters and their stats. It says lee has 4/5 for taijutsu but Neji has 3.5 these figures were taken during the START of the chuunin exam. But this doesn't affect lee or Neji since we have no information of them improving since then.

Lee also hs the highest Taijutsu out of all of the 12 konoha gennins.

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Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu
[Oh I'm sorry. Did I insult your precious Neji? Well maybe if you were watching the same show as me we could agree. I hate Sasuke so i'm not saying any of this because I like him but Sasuke is better than Neji, not by much but he is. 1) He has Sharingan, providing him insight and he can slow movements down so that he can react better. 2) His speed is equal to Lee's which is WAY faster than Neji's speed. I'm not sure if its with Lee's his weights on or off but I think with them off. 3) His ninjutsu skills are the best of all the 12 popular konoha gennins. 4) His intelegence is either higher or somewhat close to neji's. 5) His Taijutsu is one of the best with Lee being 1st Neji being 2nd and Sasuke being 3rd. 6) Chidori....do I even have to comment on that?

Next time give me a reason if you are going to disagree or else you just look like a pathetic fanboy.

Once again Sasuke is far my fav character so I'm deff no fanboy of his.
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1.Same can be said for Neji and his Byakugan, cept seeing 360degrees takes away the need to slow down movements.
2.Maybe you are forgetting the fact that Lee has never defeated Neji with or without weights. They never showed them fighting without but considering Neji wasnt surprised when Lee took them off I'd say he knew about them.
3.That's not saying a lot, since none of the genins seem to use ninjutsu and all he's done is use a couple fire attacks and chidori.
4.What made you draw that conclusion?
5.can't really argue with that.
6.I doubt Chidori can get through Kiaten and until the anime says otherwise I'm sticking to what I think, and a couple hits from Neji to Sasuke arm and chidori won't be a factor

At that site it also says that Neji has an intelligence of 2.5 with Sasuke having 2. So I was right about them being close in intelligence but I was wrong when I said he had higher intelligence.

[Sanjuro]

Originally posted by: Natural Cause

Shikamaru is obviously the brains, even if ino is the "leader"

the only people who really know hes brany are his sensai and kakashi

and yes i ment to type shikamaru but im getting fustrated with the no0bs in here, atleast its not as bad as anbu forums

Yo fuck you man. Im so tired of assholes looking down on other ppl and callin them noob and all that shit (even tho i have more posts that u) just because they made a fuckin mistake. I was talking about the shikamaru that we know now. Obviously there was an error in communication somewhere. Bitch

EDIT: I know that this was a pretty harsh and...not nice post, and i normally try not to get personal so...sorry to everybody else (if you were offended or whatever)

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Originally posted by: Sanjuro

Originally posted by: Natural Cause

Shikamaru is obviously the brains, even if ino is the "leader"

the only people who really know hes brany are his sensai and kakashi

and yes i ment to type shikamaru but im getting fustrated with the no0bs in here, atleast its not as bad as anbu forums

Yo fuck you man. Im so tired of assholes looking down on other ppl and callin them noob and all that shit (even tho i have more posts that u) just because they made a fuckin mistake. I was talking about the shikamaru that we know now. Obviously there was an error in communication somewhere. Bitch

EDIT: I know that this was a pretty harsh and...not nice post, and i normally try not to get personal so...sorry to everybody else (if you were offended or whatever)

No I think he deserved it.

[wirm]

Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu

Originally posted by: wirm

Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu

3) Rock Lee doesn't have the strongest taijutsu. Neji does. In fact it was brought up multiple times that Lee's taijutsu is extremely low-level. It's only his speed and strength (from all his training) that makes him so good.

Sorry dude but that was said several times in FLASHBACKS. Lee is now the best at Taijutsu because of his Lotus techniques which are indeed Taijutsu. Neji just has his great Tenketsu and his internal organ attacks, not sure if this is considered Tai but still Lotus is better.

I recall no instances where anybody said that Lee was the best at taijutsu. I do remember a flashback where Lee was the only one to master the Lotus. But that doesn't make him the best at taijutsu.

I recall several instances where it was remarked that Lee's taijutsu was low level.

He and Gai both discussed this and Temari noted this.

Gai said that Lee couldn't use genjutsu or ninjutsu, plus, he had no talent in taijutsu. However, due to his hard work and concentration, he's improved his crappy taijutsu to the point where his speed and strength can beat just about anybody. However, his style and technique are still low level.

Neji's taijutsu has the strongest style and best technique. But being a genius, he doesn't have to work as hard as Lee does.



I'm not saying that Lee can't beat Neji (though it's been said plenty of times). I'm saying that his taijutsu is weaker. However, Lee is much faster and stronger (without injuries) and is probably more effective in a fight.

Posted by wirm

3) Rock Lee doesn't have the strongest taijutsu. Neji does. In fact it was brought up multiple times that Lee's taijutsu is extremely low-level. It's only his speed and strength (from all his training) that makes him so good.

http://www.narutoinfo.com/index.php?...ghting%20Stats

That's a link to a site that has pictures from the official book out now of Naruto characters and their stats. It says lee has 4/5 for taijutsu but Neji has 3.5 these figures were taken during the START of the chuunin exam. But this doesn't affect lee or Neji since we have no information of them improving since then.

Lee also hs the highest Taijutsu out of all of the 12 konoha gennins.

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Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu
[Oh I'm sorry. Did I insult your precious Neji? Well maybe if you were watching the same show as me we could agree. I hate Sasuke so i'm not saying any of this because I like him but Sasuke is better than Neji, not by much but he is. 1) He has Sharingan, providing him insight and he can slow movements down so that he can react better. 2) His speed is equal to Lee's which is WAY faster than Neji's speed. I'm not sure if its with Lee's his weights on or off but I think with them off. 3) His ninjutsu skills are the best of all the 12 popular konoha gennins. 4) His intelegence is either higher or somewhat close to neji's. 5) His Taijutsu is one of the best with Lee being 1st Neji being 2nd and Sasuke being 3rd. 6) Chidori....do I even have to comment on that?

Next time give me a reason if you are going to disagree or else you just look like a pathetic fanboy.

Once again Sasuke is far my fav character so I'm deff no fanboy of his.
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1.Same can be said for Neji and his Byakugan, cept seeing 360degrees takes away the need to slow down movements.
2.Maybe you are forgetting the fact that Lee has never defeated Neji with or without weights. They never showed them fighting without but considering Neji wasnt surprised when Lee took them off I'd say he knew about them.
3.That's not saying a lot, since none of the genins seem to use ninjutsu and all he's done is use a couple fire attacks and chidori.
4.What made you draw that conclusion?
5.can't really argue with that.
6.I doubt Chidori can get through Kiaten and until the anime says otherwise I'm sticking to what I think, and a couple hits from Neji to Sasuke arm and chidori won't be a factor

At that site it also says that Neji has an intelligence of 2.5 with Sasuke having 2. So I was right about them being close in intelligence but I was wrong when I said he had higher intelligence.

Look at that huge quote, haha


Anyway, I don't look at web sites for stats. Unless the web site is run by the guy who writes Naruto or his company, then those stats are the opinion of the person who writes them.

I am more than willing to consider everyone's opinion. But if those opinions are not backed up by something said or mentioned in the anime, then that is all it will remain. An opinion.

However, I can back up my opinions with the anime. And if there's something I'm unsure of, I either shut up, or say that I'm not sure. If you can show me any part in the anime that backs up the statistics you quoted, I will be a happy convert. But if you can't, then that person's opinion will not influence my opinion.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Look at that huge quote, haha


Anyway, I don't look at web sites for stats. Unless the web site is run by the guy who writes Naruto or his company, then those stats are the opinion of the person who writes them.

I am more than willing to consider everyone's opinion. But if those opinions are not backed up by something said or mentioned in the anime, then that is all it will remain. An opinion.

However, I can back up my opinions with the anime. And if there's something I'm unsure of, I either shut up, or say that I'm not sure. If you can show me any part in the anime that backs up the statistics you quoted, I will be a happy convert. But if you can't, then that person's opinion will not influence my opinion.

Ok well in the anime when they first meet Kabuto his card that shows lee's stats also has it saying that he high tai and kabuto also says that Lee's tai greatly improved this past year. So there ya go and there cards information is identical to the information given on the site.

Edit:[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Assertn]

it says the stats come from the "official naruto character data book" that is available for purchase.
and i'd believe its official, since i know for a fact that those types of graphs do exist for all the characters, and you can see some of them in the naruto gcn games as well as in the anime itself

i think the point sanjuro was trying to make was that shikamaru's intelligence wasnt a factor in deciding the teams, nor was it for many of the missions they went on. Ino acted as the brains and leader of their team for the most part, simply because they had no idea how smart shikamaru was, and shika didnt really care to be the leader anyway. But Ino DOES come to the realization that shikamaru's strategic skills have helped them countless times when she sees him fight temari.

[Munsu]

Originally posted by: Natural Cause

Originally posted by: Budweineken
I think the only unbalance was in the Naruto group... because it has the "X" factoy in Naruto... only Iruka sensei knew how dedicated Naruto was... so they have the strongest group of all... Sakura can just be discarded... the other two can take on anyone.... Maybe it was balanced through their personalities

The Rock Lee group doesnt factor here since they are older...


But there certainly was some thought behind the selection of the groups... remember Tsunade studying the 3rd's records of the groups

Iruka didnt have any input on the groups. the decision was made by the 3rd if u remember.

I never said Iruka had a say in the groups... I just said that he was the only person at the time that knew Naruto well enough to know how good he might become...

Edit: you can add yourself there to your n00b list and to your dumb people list...

[Dankenhaus]

Those stats are official from Kishimoto himself. I have the stat book and finally found the website that translated them. End of discussion refer to stat book for info.

[Knives122]

Obviously its apparent that over that year they took off to train, Gai trained them in the specific areas that they were talented in, Thats why Lee can do the lotus and has high Taijutsu. Dont know what the other two did but, Lee can beat Neji (maybe with out his speed) plus, Lee is a master at it, and has numerous styles. So IMO Lee is the best ninja

Now bring on the flaming [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[PossiblE]

I did not read all the previous posts, but that last post is just wrong. As of now, Sasuke could probably beat Lee. Since he has the same speed as Lee with no weights, Sasuke could stop all of his moves with the Sharingan.

[Sanjuro]

Originally posted by: Knives122
Obviously its apparent that over that year they took off to train, Gai trained them in the specific areas that they were talented in, Thats why Lee can do the lotus and has high Taijutsu. Dont know what the other two did but, Lee can beat Neji (maybe with out his speed) plus, Lee is a master at it, and has numerous styles. So IMO Lee is the best ninja

Now bring on the flaming [img][/img]

s w e e t

go Lee

[Inazuma Kami]

Originally posted by: PossiblE
Sasuke could stop all of his moves with the Sharingan.

I think Sharingan can't read/copy pure Taijutsu movements (Sasuke Vs Lee fight before the chuunin exam)

However

Originally posted by: Knives112
Lee is the best ninja

Nothing to add ....