latest chapter revelations

[The Lord of Morning]

i dont think itachi is the most powerful out there. i think long term orochi is a bigger threat since he can soul transfer but in his current body he is not that strong.

looking at manga trends, it seems like sasuke and naruto will have to kill/defeat orochi and itachi.

problem is naruto's not wanting to kill people, at least he hasnt had to yet. orochi HAS to die and thats why i think sasuke will take him on, and itachi will have to fight naruto, because he hunts naruto and the kyubi. itachi doesnt have to die, just be defeated. now the special eye can only be blocked by another sharingan but i think naruto defies even the bloodlimits. We have seen bloodlines as superior to the regular ninja and constantly heard about how uchiha is the best bloodline. the only things that seem superior to bloodline are the demons like kyubi and the sand racoon.

we have seen a ton of elite fighters and while everyone knows naruto has the greatest potential he isnt even close to that yet. he is growing at a tremendous rate but still not close to the end.

now the third had no bloodline, he was just a genius and i think the first two hokage were good, but the 3rd was superior to them. i think the 4th was in turn superior to the 3rd, he developed the rasengan and the death jutsu that sealed the kyubi, and he was the only 'summon' the 3rd was worried about. i dont think the hokage have to be stronger each time but that definatly seems to be the trend so far. you can have ninja that are superior to bloodlines, but they are rare enough to be hokage. also i take back one thing, the 1st hokage has some weird power with plants that might be classified as a bloodline. the point was that bloodlines are not the end all be all.

now major villains are orochi/kabuto and itachi/akatsuki. orochi has the largest longterm threat because he is a genius and has a method for immortality, even if not perfect. the body he has might not be as good as sasukes but it certainly is superior since it was a fight among clans that he had captured so its not too shaby either. i hate to admit it but i see a time jump happening with sasuke training under orochi. orochi cant take sasuke's body for a while from kabuto's statement so he will just train him and bring him more under his control.

back to why naruto has to fight itachi, its more a matter of sasuke NOT fighting him if we are expecting a happy ending overall. He must reject the avenger attitude and with his great potential and being corrupted by orochi, he will have to fight orochi and kill him so as to free himself. killing orochi is necessary and i dont know if naruto has it in him.

itachi has the eye but i think naruto will eventually gain a protection from genjutsu via the kyubi. the strong willpower of the demon will help naruto against mind attacks. . total guess but its plausable. rememeber the scroll at the beginning that naruto stole that had eight jutsu, which the 4th used to seal kyubi? maybe one of those helps naruto and i definatly expect him to slowly learn all of those eight.

i think most would agree itachi is definatly one of the stronger of akatsuki, but each in their own way is superior and sannin level elite. the sharkfin sword is what makes that other member elite, its a badass weapon and i think that is what puts him in akatsuki level. i dont care to speculate about the rest but we have a LOT of plot to deal with and kishimoto is going to be writing naruto for years. i see the anime far exceeding DBZ if they follow the manga completely.

a side question on ranking, would we classify naruto as kakashi level since he defeated kabuto who we know is kakashi level? i think kaakshi would mop the floor with naruto if he had too, which would be a horrible story but anyway.

[Mut]

1. the kyubi doesn't 'defy' any bloodline limits.
2. the theory on how the next hokage is stronger than the current one doesn't work since you know 4th > tsunade.
3. i think the 3rd was more considered about the number of the hokages he had to fight rather than what you say because i don't think neither 1st or the 2nd was strong as they were when they were alive.
4. naruto gaining protection from tsukuyomi would be the absolute lamest thing ever... that'd just be so gay. heroes can't be ALL powerful and have no weaknesses.
5. the forbidden scroll...? eight jutsus...? explain more plz.
6. forget about naruto beating kabuto, it had to have happened. personally, i thought kabuto was too strong to be beaten by naruto but whatever.
7. ch 222 discussion thread

[PSJ]

i didnt even want to read all of it but 1st and 2nd hokage were not weak their skills were sick just like 3rds and 4ths. and why do you expect naruto to learn forbidden jutsus that are sealed away somewhere in hokages house? he wont steal the scroll again and no one will be stupid enough to teach him the jutsus. also we dont know the number of jutsus in that scroll. naruto wont get protection from tsukiyomi that would suck naruto isnt all powerful and he cant beat anyone he wants. he won against kabuto because kabuto underestimated him and charged head first at him.

[Death BOO Z]

won against Kabuto? hardly...
Naruto gained one lucky shot with a deadly justu and a direct hit, and yet, Kabuto was at a better state than Naruto afterwards (very temporary inability to move > half heart attack).

I noticed that many people didn't understand that fight very well, so here's how the bettle went on (i'm double checking myself with the manga, so no arguments).

1. the battle starts, Kabuto decides to move it to a less crowded place, and he does it while avoiding each of tsunde's attacks.
2. Kabuto takes a soldier pill, after both him and Tsunde are starting to breath heavily.
3. They start fighting, Kabuto cuts through Tsunade's mauscle and 'seals' her strentgh.
4. Kabuto hits Tsunade's cheast to stop her entire movement.
5. Tsunade does her elcetrecity (don't mind mt spelling) on Kabuto.
6. Kabuto thinks " It seems that I need to be a little more serious".
7. Tsunade spanks Kabuto around a bit, but without any force behined her punches.
8. Kabuto figuers out how to control his bdy and pops out a kunai.
Naruto and Co. join the battle.
9. Tsunade's charges at Kabuto.
10. Kabuto cuts his right arm and spreads blood all over Tsuande, but loses the ability to use his arm for a cupple of minutes (until he takes the blood stopping pill).
11. Naruto charges off at Kabuto from the blind spot with three clones (total of four Naruto's), but Kabuto stops all of them.
12. Kabuto stops all four needles that Shizune spits at him with his headband.
13. Kabuto takes a blood stopping pill.
14. Kabuto goes against Shizune, dodges her posion gas and cuts out he muscles in her legs.
15. Kabuto walks to Tsunade and starts kicking her around.
16. Naruto jumps in to take Kabuto's punch instead of Tsunade.
17. Naruto does the Rasengan for the first time, Kabuto dodges and cracks his leg bone.
18. Naruto creates a clone, and takes on Kabuto's Kunai and grabs his hand
19. Naruto hits with the Rasenagn, Kabuto focuses chackra on that spot and lands a blow on Naruto.
20. Naruto starts chocking out blood and gets a heart attack thing, Kabuto falls on ground from overusing chackra.
21. Kabuto draws out Orochimaru's snake, and manages to say some comments before leaving, Naruto is still out cold.


for all the guys who didn't have the patience to read it, I'll sum things up for you.

Kabuto's speed is high enough to dodge each of tsunade's attacks, and even while under the effects on tsunade's jutsu, he was able to off four Naruto's.
If Naruto wasn't there to take the punch for Tsunade, Kabuto would have completly beaten her.
If Tsunade wasn't there to heal Naruto, the battle would have ended with Naruto being dead while Kabuto is only out of chackra.
Kabuto completly crushed Shizune.
Kabuto used the blood phobia only when he got into the dissadvange of fighting two of the sannin at the same time, even before that, he was able to beat Tsunade.


so, to mega-sum things up:
Naruto is nowhere near Kabuto, and therefore, unable to go up against Kakash.

last thing, Kakashi managed to stop both Naruto's and Sasuke's attack at mid air, doesn't that make you think that his stronger than them?

I'm not going to reffer to anyother point, cuz i'll probably end up writing a damn book...

[Lefty]

Maybe you should and post it on this forum for people to reffer to befor they make a stogge out of them selves.

[Kenshiro]

You have missed out something very important.

They say that Itachi can only be beaten by someone with a similar bloodline. In manga, when they say this kind of stuff, its always right, and Kakashi is hardly up to the task.

Even if your crazy theory about Itachi being beaten by Naruto is right. The only way I can see that Naruto would be able to be beat Itachi would be that when they are in the Genjetsu world (the red moon or whatever it is called) the Kyubi would come out fully and kick his ass. There would be no lame anti-hypnosis-no-jutsu rubbish.

[Masakari]

Well in reality, Kabuto lost the fight in all aspects. He couldn't beat Tsunade because Naruto interfered, when he thought he killed Naruto, Naruto didn't die. Though Tsunade may have healed him, they also show the seal on his stomach, which implies that Kyuubi had a hand in it. It can be aruged that Kyuubi would've healed naruto on it's own and he would've not died (though he would have at least completely passed out for a while), but since we don't know the extent of the healing abilities (other than he's never been injured for over a day, or something along those lines) I'd rather not make that claim. Also Naruto did knock Kabuto out, and he was probably at least a little humiliated by it (He got all high on the fact that he was against two legendary sannin and it made him think he was on par with them).

Don't take me wrong though, I'm not saying Naruto is stronger. (Though I'm not saying Naruto can't beat Kabuto either, if Naruto got pissed off enough and he was faced with a situation where a loved one was at stake, then he can beat Kabuto)

Don't know if Kabuto could've 'beaten' Tsunade, she didn't even reveal that one technique where she regenerates body cells. She did make a claim that she could never be killed in battle. It's just speculation but if Naruto hadn't interfered, I don't think Tsunade would've died, unless she just didn't want to fight (which is a possibility, because until Kabuto knocked Naruto senseless, she wasn't exactly the most eager fighter on the battlefield) Anyway there's too much speculation that can be taken off of these things. The fact is all the non-sannin were rendered useless by eachother while Tsunade Orochimaru and Jiraiya fought it out afterwards.

[Ryllharu]

Itachi's jutsu cannot be beaten by anything other than a full blown Sharigan, that has not only been stated by Itachi, but proved in his fight with Kakashi. If ANYONE ever subdues Itachi, it will have to be Sasuke, but after what he's done to himself, I doubt it.

A lot of people seem to be overestimating the Kyuubi and what it grants Naruto. All it can do, and probably ever will, is heal Naruto to keep itself alive and give him a virtually limitless amount of Chakra (for the same reason). That alone makes Naruto very powerful, but that only means he has the most potential, and will probably only reach that with power-jutsu's like Rasengan. He has show no aptitude at all for any genjutsu other than Henge (transformation). If I wanted to classify the characters, Naruto is a power striker, I seriously doubt he could take on Itachi, and if he did and won, that would be kinda lame.

I'm pretty sure he's gonna lose to Sasuke, Naruto hasn't lost in a while.


What was this thread about?

[RasenDori]

i think everything has been said about this except one thing: naruto is completely willing to kill...hes just never succeeded. he was going to kill gaara if if had to and when he used the rasengan against kabuto it was meant to kill. not to mention that in the bell training he went at kakashi with the intent to kill

[Coolman]

Naruto is NOWHERE near Kabuto in strenght. Kabuto just got cocky, and angry, and got wasted.

[Eurasian]

i would totally love it if naruto defeats orochimaru and itachi. i'll feel really sorry for sasuke then. naruto does have the intention to kill. he starts to develop is as a more experienced ninja. if it comes to his friends, i think Naruto will do anything, including kill, to protect them.

Itachi is only strong w/ that mange whatever jutsu that is. It says only a sharingan successor can be match or whatever. but that jutsu is all about mentality. If you have a strong will/mind (whatever), that jutsu can be defeated. Naruto has that strongness somewhere. In times of desperation, Naruto will come through.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Eurasian
Itachi is only strong w/ that mange whatever jutsu that is. It says only a sharingan successor can be match or whatever. but that jutsu is all about mentality. If you have a strong will/mind (whatever), that jutsu can be defeated. Naruto has that strongness somewhere. In times of desperation, Naruto will come through.

stop trying your best at being wrong.

[Knives122]

hahahahahahahahahah, aaahhhh your encouragement is really inspiring Mut@t@

[hornetmike]

So what your saying is that kakashi doesn't have a strong will. it seems he as trying pretty hard to me to protect the other jounins. Also naruto being stronger than kabuto makes me laugh. he got underestimated and landed a lucky shot by getting stabbed in the hand and injuring himself with his own jutsu. Another thing kabuto is not on par with any of the sannins. he too was underestimated. But i will say he most definetly is on kakashi's level.

I would be kinda lame if naruto ends up defeating itachi. after all the focus on itachi and sasuke, that would be sort of a waste. and finally naruto can not be immune to itachis mange sharingan(is that the right spelling). He'll just have to figure a way around it. also itachi is not the strongest person out there. i'm sure his sharingan and jutsus have many flawas and weaknesses. all jutsu have, this isn't DBZ. At least i hope i doesn't end up that way. Though the way the manga is desperately dragging, i'm not that sure anymore.

[Hokage-IV]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
won against Kabuto? hardly...
Naruto gained one lucky shot with a deadly justu and a direct hit, and yet, Kabuto was at a better state than Naruto afterwards (very temporary inability to move > half heart attack).

I noticed that many people didn't understand that fight very well, so here's how the bettle went on (i'm double checking myself with the manga, so no arguments).

1. the battle starts, Kabuto decides to move it to a less crowded place, and he does it while avoiding each of tsunde's attacks.
2. Kabuto takes a soldier pill, after both him and Tsunde are starting to breath heavily.
3. They start fighting, Kabuto cuts through Tsunade's mauscle and 'seals' her strentgh.
4. Kabuto hits Tsunade's cheast to stop her entire movement.
5. Tsunade does her elcetrecity (don't mind mt spelling) on Kabuto.
6. Kabuto thinks " It seems that I need to be a little more serious".
7. Tsunade spanks Kabuto around a bit, but without any force behined her punches.
8. Kabuto figuers out how to control his bdy and pops out a kunai.
Naruto and Co. join the battle.
9. Tsunade's charges at Kabuto.
10. Kabuto cuts his right arm and spreads blood all over Tsuande, but loses the ability to use his arm for a cupple of minutes (until he takes the blood stopping pill).
11. Naruto charges off at Kabuto from the blind spot with three clones (total of four Naruto's), but Kabuto stops all of them.
12. Kabuto stops all four needles that Shizune spits at him with his headband.
13. Kabuto takes a blood stopping pill.
14. Kabuto goes against Shizune, dodges her posion gas and cuts out he muscles in her legs.
15. Kabuto walks to Tsunade and starts kicking her around.
16. Naruto jumps in to take Kabuto's punch instead of Tsunade.
17. Naruto does the Rasengan for the first time, Kabuto dodges and cracks his leg bone.
18. Naruto creates a clone, and takes on Kabuto's Kunai and grabs his hand
19. Naruto hits with the Rasenagn, Kabuto focuses chackra on that spot and lands a blow on Naruto.
20. Naruto starts chocking out blood and gets a heart attack thing, Kabuto falls on ground from overusing chackra.
21. Kabuto draws out Orochimaru's snake, and manages to say some comments before leaving, Naruto is still out cold.


for all the guys who didn't have the patience to read it, I'll sum things up for you.

Kabuto's speed is high enough to dodge each of tsunade's attacks, and even while under the effects on tsunade's jutsu, he was able to off four Naruto's.
If Naruto wasn't there to take the punch for Tsunade, Kabuto would have completly beaten her.
If Tsunade wasn't there to heal Naruto, the battle would have ended with Naruto being dead while Kabuto is only out of chackra.
Kabuto completly crushed Shizune.
Kabuto used the blood phobia only when he got into the dissadvange of fighting two of the sannin at the same time, even before that, he was able to beat Tsunade.


so, to mega-sum things up:
Naruto is nowhere near Kabuto, and therefore, unable to go up against Kakash.

last thing, Kakashi managed to stop both Naruto's and Sasuke's attack at mid air, doesn't that make you think that his stronger than them?

I'm not going to reffer to anyother point, cuz i'll probably end up writing a damn book...

There is alot of "IF" in ur argument...

[Hokage-IV]

Originally posted by: Kenshiro
You have missed out something very important.

They say that Itachi can only be beaten by someone with a similar bloodline. In manga, when they say this kind of stuff, its always right, and Kakashi is hardly up to the task.

Even if your crazy theory about Itachi being beaten by Naruto is right. The only way I can see that Naruto would be able to be beat Itachi would be that when they are in the Genjetsu world (the red moon or whatever it is called) the Kyubi would come out fully and kick his ass. There would be no lame anti-hypnosis-no-jutsu rubbish.

and u might be on to something or not ,but very interesting point...1) first we need to clarify where is red moon jutsu is taking place.. but we know its not real in terms of physical reality(so the rules have changed), more of a spiritual realm or in the victim's mind.. 2) we know the body is the vessel for the kyubi to be locked up and cant break free on his own. But what about within the body(including the mind)?
3)last , what r the rules within the Red Moon? we know Itachi has the ability controls all things in this world. But he cant control innate characteristic or assets of the victim. so what r the rules for a "seal"

[Death BOO Z]

There are no 'if's in my arguement, it's only facts, learn to read properly, and then come back.

first of all, it's Tsukiyomi (moon reading, in direct translation), red moon is Akatsuki (which is apparntly also dawn).

and Naruto won't gain resistence to it, becuase it'd be lame if he did... besides, the kyubi soul is sealed inside Naruto, so unless he's going berserk (like against Haku) then there's no reason for the demon's consinious to be around to help out. Gaara is a diffrent story, of course.

[Hokage-IV]

edit: double post , my bad

[Hokage-IV]

Originally posted by: Hokage-IV

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
There are no 'if's in my arguement, it's only facts, learn to read properly, and then come back.

first of all, it's Tsukiyomi (moon reading, in direct translation), red moon is Akatsuki (which is apparntly also dawn).

and Naruto won't gain resistence to it, becuase it'd be lame if he did... besides, the kyubi soul is sealed inside Naruto, so unless he's going berserk (like against Haku) then there's no reason for the demon's consinious to be around to help out. Gaara is a diffrent story, of course.

"If Naruto wasn't there to take the punch for Tsunade, Kabuto would have completly beaten her.
If Tsunade wasn't there to heal Naruto, the battle would have ended with Naruto being dead while Kabuto is only out of chackra."

what "IF" tsunade wasnt so rusty? what "IF" Tsunade didnt have the blood phobial(teminology?)

facts u said?

i think kabuto is stronger then what we've seen.. i have nothing against ur content but ur predominating at one side of the equation with "IFs" n saying its a fact? lol ok...


Naruto won't gain resistence because it would be lame? ......... k.. nice argument..

[Mut]

naruto won't gain resistance from tsukuyomi. if that happens, we'd have to disregard:

1. what itachi said about only uchihas being able to defend against mangekyou sharingan.
2. sasuke's goal of him beating itachi since that's one of itachi's main attacks. if anyone else can resist mangekyou sharingan than sasuke's purpose would be meaningless.

if you disregard any of those two, then you might as well take out almost 50% of the naruto series storyline. so, yeah... naruto won't gain resistance.