How strong is kakashi really?

[Assassin]

we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro). And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

[chambers]

yes i think we have. look how much ownage itachi dealt out to sasuke, compared to kakashis (not including the contents of mangekyou of course!). sure kakashi is going to improve and i dotn think either naruto or sasuke will ever surpass him, i think in all honesty he will be dead before that happens. it just seems to me like kakashi is there to be sacrficed.

[Board of Command]

I don't think Kakashi is that strong. Itachi didn't kill him because he didn't go to Konoha to fight. Itachi is a reasonable guy, and killing Kakashi is just a waste of time for their real mission. Also, Kisame was barely fighting because I think he knew it was just a bunshin, so it's not worth the effort. Kakashi barely beat Zabuza.

I think Naruto will surpass Kakashi, he's getting personally trained by Jaraiya.

[Lenas]

Naruto will surpass Kakashi because he's being trained by Juraiya? You seem to forget that Kakashi was trained by the 4th, who apparently surpassed Juraiya himself.

*edit* Also, it's been said that Kakashi is an "elite genius" (in the words of Gai), and we all know Naruto is no genius. That alone makes it seem even more unreasonable. Kyubi or not.

[Krbadass]

Stronger then he shows hopefully

[Aeon]

Besides the fodder ninja's Kakashi hasn't hasn't beaten anybody important. Sure he beat Zabuza but Zabuza won the all important first match when he trapped him in that bubble, you usually don't get a second chance in a ninja fight. So I do think he has showed his true strength already cause I doubt he would holding back against Zabuza/Kisame/Itachi.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Assassin
we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

i believe kakashi would fight til his death if the situation depended on it, but i think the creator, kishimoto, purposely made kakashi freeze up like that. that suggests orochimaru's status and strength. this is important because so far, we've seen that kakashi is the strongest character introduced and that has fought. this tells us that orochimaru is someone to be feared, even by a very talented jounin like kakashi.

however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro).

kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai. however, i don't think he is weaker than zabuza because introducing a similar character from the same village as zabuza is unnecessary. i'm guessing that he's an upgraded zabuza.

And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

not really. kakashi was trying to keep up, but it was inevitable that he would be outskilled by itachi. kakashi had already suggested that itachi's movements are hard to keep up even for him and his sharingan and this was before itachi used mangekyou sharingan. i highly doubt that someone orochimaru fears will be matched by kakashi.

granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

i'm almost certain that kakashi can beat kisame (it won't be easy obviously), but i am also almost certain that he has no chance against itachi. i'm sure of these things especially about kisame because of the way characters are introduced in naruto. people who are amazingly strong have been introduced with a reputation (3rd & 4th). however, kisame's introduction was a bit weak to be considered as a major threat like itachi.

so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do. even though he is an excellent ninja, it only looks like he isn't that strong because characters like orochimaru and itachi have shown their powers and they are just far more talented and skilled. i just hope that kakashi gets more screen time and whoops kabuto's ass.

[Pyron]

i hope that kakashi is stronger. it seems right now he is useless because of guys like oro and itachi. he's still a hype ninja and hopefully he gets stronger

[Sensei Jon]

I believe he is pretty much at his limit right now. With the way the anime is going the enemies are getting stronger but so are the students, there is really no need for Kakashi to become stronger to go along with the plot. Of course I could be wrong since I don't read the manga and I am not saying that I don't want to see him get stronger, I personally wanna see him kick some more ass.

[woofcat]

I belive Kakashi is not at his limit becuase he is getting soft. He is also No Itachi, Itachi is the most powerful charature interduced into the world of Naruto so far. I think that Naruto will surpass Kakashi becuase he is being tought by THEE Ero-sennin.

[thundrakkon]

Kakashi is still relatively young. I believe he has potential to become stronger, and since he has a Sharingan eye, he will learn more. I am sure that Jiraiya was probably really strong at the same age as Kakashi is now, but at 50+, I believe he must have improved exponentially. With age, comes wisdom and more power for the truly talented characters.

[Rek]

I think we have seen the most of kakashi.... he really doesn't have that much more use. Naruto and sasuke are gonna become chuunins, and have their jounin tutors (ero-sennin, and kakashi, respectively) but its mainly gonna be naruto and ero-sennin for a bit. Kakashi has taught sasuke all he knows, pretty much. Except puppy summons, but I think sasuke will have a unique animal summon, like a lizard, or some sort of firey thing... I really don't know.

[lasaire]

Actually, if you check the official character bios, they have grids detailing the strengths of team 7 in the same way that Kabuto's nin cards detail strengths. Kakashi's highest marks were in strategy and stealth, but he still had a large room to grow. I personally think that Kakashi hasn't shown his true strength.

In the fight with Zabuza, the first fight caught him off guard and rusty. Remember, "It's been a long time since I've been in a situation this dangerous."

Now, in the second fight with Zabuza, at the point when Haku had been killed by jumping in front of Kakashi's chidori: Kakashi had been wounded by Zabuza twice, though obviously they weren't particularly deep wounds. He'd also used a fairly large amount of chakra -- using the Sharingan, his dog summons, and the chidori (which even he can only do 4 times daily.) Zabuza, however, had only used his mist jutsu, and one usage of the water clones. So, in comparison, Zabuza was doing much better in chakra and physical condition than Kakashi. However, what happens when Haku dies?

Kakashi gets serious, is what happens. All of a sudden Kakashi drops the act and scores two very rapid and crippling blows on Zabuza. He takes out both of Zabuza's arms in a matter of seconds. Even when Zabuza tried to counter with a blow from his sword, Kakashi simply jump-kicks him. Zabuza, being a ruthless killer, had been serious from the beginning. However, Kakashi is set up as a much kinder character, who didn't want to kill Zabuza until he had no choice. Thus, he fights at less than his total level for most of the fight.

In summary, we haven't seen all of Kakashi's potential yet.

[Rek]

...what more is there to be said?

other than I think your slightly wrong on the "I don't want to kill you part," as much as, "this is bad ass training for me". because remember, before, he had no qualms about killing zabuza (yes, I can see the future, and your gonna die) right before haku did his needle thing.

[Xein]

Well I think everyone likes kakashi and I also think he's really badass just cuz of how cool he is, and to top it off he's done some really cool stuff in battle... It just seems tho that the anime is taking the focus off him and being more focused on the kids and the uber strong characters like itachi, jirya, oruchimaru, etc. I think he could improvse and become even stronger but he doesn't train and it doesnt seem like there's a reason for him to be stronger. I wanna see him kick some ass but I have a feeling he's gonna be like one of those characters that is strong for a while then they just kinda forget about (like piccolo in dbz). But yeah I think we've seen most of his skills and he does kick ass... hand to hand with zabuza he totally fucked him up, not to mention his intelligence and strategies... I do hope we get to see him fight some more though.

[Gods_Son]

After killing Haku, Kakashi shows basically his full potential. That's why he says something like "this is the meaning of true strength." He's strong, just not a match for someone like Orochimaru.

[Uchiha Barles]

I would have like to have seen some more fights with the sannins, and kakashi and people comparable to him. It kinda bothers me when you're 80+ episodes into a series and still don't have a clear idea as to what the how strong the characters really are. They did a good job on the genin, but not really anyone else.

[LostAngel]

I hope there is more to Kakashi but I think they are holding off on him because they plan to use him for something else later. Just to compare his level to some of the other characters that seem pretty damn invincible he cant compare in strength. Because I think in the first fight with Zabuza we saw his limit, he over did his and if he where to fight against someone like Orchi, Itachi, he would probably get tired quickly as they are just warming up. But I still hope to see a more powerful side of Kakashi.

[Stoopider]

I don't doubt Kakashi is reasonably good. But I think he's lacking in fighting for prolong periods. And he doesn't move unnecessarily. He probably has poor chakra.. especially I think mantaining the sharingan, probably eats up his chakra so his recovery rate is slower.

It seems so far Kakashi's killer move is the Chidori, which doesn't seem like such a great devastating move. But some how, i've got the feeling that Kakashi isn't meant to be an all out fighter. Like Lasaire said.

Kakashi is probably the kinda ninja that grope's in the darkness and strikes without the enemy noticing. (The chidori was created to be a assassination weapon, but I think it's too noisy and bright. Heheh) Rather than a Naruto's all noisy and showy kind of fight.

Thats the thing about Naruto universe, a person's fighting ability cannot be displayed by ammount of chakra's unlike DBZ. Hence Shikamaru is poor in chakra, but uses his abilities diligently and intelligently.

[Mae]

A fight is not just like rock, paper, scissors, where if you have a stronger hand you automatically win. There are a lot of other issues as well including taking advantage of the environment you are fighting in (both of Shikamaru's fights in the test), your individual skills vs. the skills of the person you are fighting (Shino's fight) and your ability to work with your team (the third exam fight with the shadow ninjas). There are traps, poisons, and ambushes. There's also a fair amount of pure luck involved. You could have the ability to summon Kyubi itself, but it won't do you much good if someone sneaks up behind you and puts a knife in your back.

Could Naruto become stronger than Kakashi in a purely physical sense? Sure. Could he beat him in a fight? Maybe in 20 years.

Basically I don't think pure strength is all that important. Although to address the topic, I think Kakashi is damn strong. Yeah, he was intimidated when Oro showed up to get Sasuke, but he stood his ground. Although Oro laughed you'll notice that he took off instead of chancing the confrontation and sent Kabuto in his place later.