How strong is kakashi really?

[Assassin]

we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro). And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

[chambers]

yes i think we have. look how much ownage itachi dealt out to sasuke, compared to kakashis (not including the contents of mangekyou of course!). sure kakashi is going to improve and i dotn think either naruto or sasuke will ever surpass him, i think in all honesty he will be dead before that happens. it just seems to me like kakashi is there to be sacrficed.

[Board of Command]

I don't think Kakashi is that strong. Itachi didn't kill him because he didn't go to Konoha to fight. Itachi is a reasonable guy, and killing Kakashi is just a waste of time for their real mission. Also, Kisame was barely fighting because I think he knew it was just a bunshin, so it's not worth the effort. Kakashi barely beat Zabuza.

I think Naruto will surpass Kakashi, he's getting personally trained by Jaraiya.

[Lenas]

Naruto will surpass Kakashi because he's being trained by Juraiya? You seem to forget that Kakashi was trained by the 4th, who apparently surpassed Juraiya himself.

*edit* Also, it's been said that Kakashi is an "elite genius" (in the words of Gai), and we all know Naruto is no genius. That alone makes it seem even more unreasonable. Kyubi or not.

[Krbadass]

Stronger then he shows hopefully

[Aeon]

Besides the fodder ninja's Kakashi hasn't hasn't beaten anybody important. Sure he beat Zabuza but Zabuza won the all important first match when he trapped him in that bubble, you usually don't get a second chance in a ninja fight. So I do think he has showed his true strength already cause I doubt he would holding back against Zabuza/Kisame/Itachi.

[kakashi_gurl]

and lenas ur FORGET THAT JIRAIYA TRAINED THE 4TH!!
woah..talk about coincidence....

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Assassin
we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

i believe kakashi would fight til his death if the situation depended on it, but i think the creator, kishimoto, purposely made kakashi freeze up like that. that suggests orochimaru's status and strength. this is important because so far, we've seen that kakashi is the strongest character introduced and that has fought. this tells us that orochimaru is someone to be feared, even by a very talented jounin like kakashi.

however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro).

kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai. however, i don't think he is weaker than zabuza because introducing a similar character from the same village as zabuza is unnecessary. i'm guessing that he's an upgraded zabuza.

And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

not really. kakashi was trying to keep up, but it was inevitable that he would be outskilled by itachi. kakashi had already suggested that itachi's movements are hard to keep up even for him and his sharingan and this was before itachi used mangekyou sharingan. i highly doubt that someone orochimaru fears will be matched by kakashi.

granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

i'm almost certain that kakashi can beat kisame (it won't be easy obviously), but i am also almost certain that he has no chance against itachi. i'm sure of these things especially about kisame because of the way characters are introduced in naruto. people who are amazingly strong have been introduced with a reputation (3rd & 4th). however, kisame's introduction was a bit weak to be considered as a major threat like itachi.

so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do. even though he is an excellent ninja, it only looks like he isn't that strong because characters like orochimaru and itachi have shown their powers and they are just far more talented and skilled. i just hope that kakashi gets more screen time and whoops kabuto's ass.

[Alai]

Originally posted by Mutata

kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai.

kisame the shark guy is way weaker. But, he strenght hasn't been determined yet. =) ok that makes. i'm sure you have some other proof that he is weaker even though his strength hasn't been determined yet. But, you probally don't.

Originally posted by Mutata

personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do.

I don't know about you Mutata but I haven't seen Kakashi do over a thousand techniques. Which by the way he is known as "the man who copied more than 1000 techniques, Kakashi the copy ninja." So I really don't think we have seen everything Kakashi can do. I do hope he gets more time in the show too though =)

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Alai
Originally posted by Mutata

kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai.

kisame the shark guy is way weaker. But, he strenght hasn't been determined yet. =) ok that makes. i'm sure you have some other proof that he is weaker even though his strength hasn't been determined yet. But, you probally don't.

Originally posted by Mutata

personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do.

I don't know about you Mutata but I haven't seen Kakashi do over a thousand techniques. Which by the way he is known as "the man who copied more than 1000 techniques, Kakashi the copy ninja." So I really don't think we have seen everything Kakashi can do. I do hope he gets more time in the show too though =)

about kisame's strength, it's a FACT that he isn't as strong as orochimaru or itachi. don't even question that. and never did i say i had proof of kisame being weaker or stronger than kakashi, i just doubt that he is. it's just a guess.

also, where did i ever say that we've seen EVERYTHING kakashi can do. don't put words in my mouth, buddy. and do you actually evaluate the capabilities of a character on the number of techniques they've performed? nice try on your subtle smart ass talk, though.

EDIT: response to below:

spoilers are not allowed in the naruto anime forum. no exceptions. please fix post =D

btw, there are no spoiler tags.

[Alai]

Origionally posted by Mutata

buddy. and do you actually evaluate the capabilities of a character on the number of techniques they've performed?

Um it never says he has preformed every technique only copied them. And the answer to your question is no.

Only an idiot would evaluate the capabilities of an anime character on the number of techniques they've preformed. More so I wouldn't judge Him because I don't even know all the techniques he can do. We haven't seen even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand. Well got to go I have so many other character to evalutate and so little time.

[Mut]

lol, do you read things after you type?

Originally posted by: Alai
More so I wouldn't judge Him because I don't even know all the techniques he can do. We haven't seen even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand.

you said that you wouldn't judge him because you haven't seen him do even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand.

so, ok... let's forget that real quick. what if kakashi DID perform all the 1000 techniques he knows (i'm assuming that he knows how to do them if he copied them)? if you saw him do all those techniques would you be able to judge him then? wait, then that would be judging a character based on the number of techniques one has performed! =O

and posting quotes isn't hard.

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: Alai
Origionally posted by Mutata

buddy. and do you actually evaluate the capabilities of a character on the number of techniques they've performed?

Um it never says he has preformed every technique only copied them. And the answer to your question is no.

Only an idiot would evaluate the capabilities of an anime character on the number of techniques they've preformed. More so I wouldn't judge Him because I don't even know all the techniques he can do. We haven't seen even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand. Well got to go I have so many other character to evalutate and so little time.

Alai is obviously a troll and I wouldn't bother feeding him... Stop trying to stir the pot and post something constructive please. I hear of the mystic lands of forums with the ability to ignore certain posters, oh how I long for the day.

[Pyron]

i hope that kakashi is stronger. it seems right now he is useless because of guys like oro and itachi. he's still a hype ninja and hopefully he gets stronger

[Sensei Jon]

I believe he is pretty much at his limit right now. With the way the anime is going the enemies are getting stronger but so are the students, there is really no need for Kakashi to become stronger to go along with the plot. Of course I could be wrong since I don't read the manga and I am not saying that I don't want to see him get stronger, I personally wanna see him kick some more ass.

[woofcat]

I belive Kakashi is not at his limit becuase he is getting soft. He is also No Itachi, Itachi is the most powerful charature interduced into the world of Naruto so far. I think that Naruto will surpass Kakashi becuase he is being tought by THEE Ero-sennin.

[thundrakkon]

Kakashi is still relatively young. I believe he has potential to become stronger, and since he has a Sharingan eye, he will learn more. I am sure that Jiraiya was probably really strong at the same age as Kakashi is now, but at 50+, I believe he must have improved exponentially. With age, comes wisdom and more power for the truly talented characters.

[Rek]

I think we have seen the most of kakashi.... he really doesn't have that much more use. Naruto and sasuke are gonna become chuunins, and have their jounin tutors (ero-sennin, and kakashi, respectively) but its mainly gonna be naruto and ero-sennin for a bit. Kakashi has taught sasuke all he knows, pretty much. Except puppy summons, but I think sasuke will have a unique animal summon, like a lizard, or some sort of firey thing... I really don't know.

[lasaire]

Actually, if you check the official character bios, they have grids detailing the strengths of team 7 in the same way that Kabuto's nin cards detail strengths. Kakashi's highest marks were in strategy and stealth, but he still had a large room to grow. I personally think that Kakashi hasn't shown his true strength.

In the fight with Zabuza, the first fight caught him off guard and rusty. Remember, "It's been a long time since I've been in a situation this dangerous."

Now, in the second fight with Zabuza, at the point when Haku had been killed by jumping in front of Kakashi's chidori: Kakashi had been wounded by Zabuza twice, though obviously they weren't particularly deep wounds. He'd also used a fairly large amount of chakra -- using the Sharingan, his dog summons, and the chidori (which even he can only do 4 times daily.) Zabuza, however, had only used his mist jutsu, and one usage of the water clones. So, in comparison, Zabuza was doing much better in chakra and physical condition than Kakashi. However, what happens when Haku dies?

Kakashi gets serious, is what happens. All of a sudden Kakashi drops the act and scores two very rapid and crippling blows on Zabuza. He takes out both of Zabuza's arms in a matter of seconds. Even when Zabuza tried to counter with a blow from his sword, Kakashi simply jump-kicks him. Zabuza, being a ruthless killer, had been serious from the beginning. However, Kakashi is set up as a much kinder character, who didn't want to kill Zabuza until he had no choice. Thus, he fights at less than his total level for most of the fight.

In summary, we haven't seen all of Kakashi's potential yet.

[Rek]

...what more is there to be said?

other than I think your slightly wrong on the "I don't want to kill you part," as much as, "this is bad ass training for me". because remember, before, he had no qualms about killing zabuza (yes, I can see the future, and your gonna die) right before haku did his needle thing.