Neji fate talk

[spanks]

well just paraphrasing but neji says that your fate is decided at birth and it cant be changed to which naruto says it can

however i think it was jiraiya who says hes destined to be the protector of konoha as the ninetails was sealed inside him at birth ergo it implies hes destined to become hokage meaning that nejis fate talk was correct

the only thing that neji got wrong was he thought he was destined to win as naruto is widely regarded as being such a dumbass, and everyone just underrates him

[spanks]

that could be total bullshit btw as i cnt remember the exact quote

[Mut]

use the edit button. and you're thinking way too deeply into this.

[Jessper]

You won't ever really know, like you said it could have been fate all along OR maybe Naruto fought his desitny and is becoming what he dreamed of even though fate wouldn't allow it. We can't tell with something like that. I wouldn't sweat it.

[wirm]

I think a man does what he can, until his destiny is revealed.
- Tom Cruise in the Last Samurai


hahaha

[Board of Command]

No, that fate talk is all crap. Everyone has a free will, and one's future is 100% dependent on the actions of himself and others. A person's character is created by his surrounding peers and environment. Every action is caused by the previous ones.

For example:
-You open your eyes because you chose to close them.
-You are reading this thread because you chose to start watching Naruto some time back.
-You have a computer because the human race is technologically advanced.

All life is is a chain of events, and each event triggers the next. Fate didn't make you watch Naruto because it didn't exist yet. You chose to watch it, and by doing so you joined this forum. You chose this forum because it is closely related to A/A, and A/A exists because the people at Japan decided to make Naruto. A person's choices all correspond to the choices of others, and so on.

Actually, as of now, everyone has the same fate, and that is death.

[Knives122]

So basically fate and everything like that is based on choice(a little matrixy), choice is what determines the past, present, and futrure, and the choices you make leads you down certain paths(there are multiple paths, that you can take based on your choices) and Naruot IMO is going down the path that he believes is the sure fire way to his ideal perfection(becoming Hokage)

So IMO Neji was right about being predetermined to fate(and maybe choice), Nejis fate was to lose to Naruto because he choose to underestimate Naruto.

[Board of Command]

Originally posted by: Knives122
So basically fate and everything like that is based on choice(a little matrixy), choice is what determines the past, present, and futrure, and the choices you make leads you down certain paths(there are multiple paths, that you can take based on your choices) and Naruot IMO is going down the path that he believes is the sure fire way to his ideal perfection(becoming Hokage)

So IMO Neji was right about being predetermined to fate(and maybe choice), Nejis fate was to lose to Naruto because he choose to underestimate Naruto.

Fate means everything is predetermined at the instance of your existance, including the future and everything you do.
Choice means there is no definite future because your consciousness can only exist in the present. As you progress along time, each action you make triggers the next.
IMO that's what I think the difference. Neji lost because he underestimated Naruto, but was he "destined" to make that choice and lose to Naruto on that day at that moment? No one knows, and no one ever will.

[010577]

this is stupid ... just because jiraiya said it does not mean it is fate...


i agree with the person that has a sig with a bloody wooden board to some extent...

1) everyone dies


fate is something that is beyond us ... it is not something anyone can percieve like :: "A will happen, B will follow", except for death. What i mean is, jiraiya thinks it is naruto's fate because of jiraiya's personality as well... everyone sees naruto's fate differently, and itz not like any one of their opinions are definitely right

[Death BOO Z]

you guys are being idiots, this argument all comes down to the points of 'you can't say that it wasn't pre-determinted!' and 'you can't say it was!', the destiney Neji was disscusing was the status destiney (a commoner will always be a commoner, while the royality will be the royality and will be served by the commoners) and it's relation to the Hyuga clan, Jiraya was talking about the role given to Naruto by the 4th (i'm not spoiling anything, as there is nothing to spoil), which was to live with the kyubi and to always be in danger becuase of it...
you guys are disscussing destiney at it's large meaning, which is completely meanningless, just as religion and astrology....


and just to fuel the argument a bit more, if you had a super computer and you knew the speed and direction that each atom went to had at the big bang, then you could have calculated how'll they'll interact and through that, you'd have the future...

[Board of Command]

Just to fuel the argument...

and just to fuel the argument a bit more, if you had a super computer and you knew the speed and direction that each atom went to had at the big bang, then you could have calculated how'll they'll interact and through that, you'd have the future...

You cannot predict the future because time is an indefinite measurement. The future doesn't exist, all it is is a concept. In our consciousness we can only experience the present. Time is constantly moving, therefore you cannot "predict" what will happen in a single moment because time is an infinite chain of events.

Anyways, back on topic.

how do a person know if it's fate or not? You may belive that you made a choice but it was your destiny to make that choice.

Exactly my point. No one knows and no one ever will.

[010577]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
you guys are being idiots, this argument all comes down to the points of 'you can't say that it wasn't pre-determinted!' and 'you can't say it was!', the destiney Neji was disscusing was the status destiney (a commoner will always be a commoner, while the royality will be the royality and will be served by the commoners) and it's relation to the Hyuga clan, Jiraya was talking about the role given to Naruto by the 4th (i'm not spoiling anything, as there is nothing to spoil), which was to live with the kyubi and to always be in danger becuase of it...
you guys are disscussing destiney at it's large meaning, which is completely meanningless, just as religion and astrology....


and just to fuel the argument a bit more, if you had a super computer and you knew the speed and direction that each atom went to had at the big bang, then you could have calculated how'll they'll interact and through that, you'd have the future...

i liked the atom part.... sort of true... but not really because us moving changes the pattern and the super computer cannot predict it

[Enigmatic_Paragon]

and just to fuel the argument a bit more, if you had a super computer and you knew the speed and direction that each atom went to had at the big bang, then you could have calculated how'll they'll interact and through that, you'd have the future...

In the past, this was accepted scientific belief - just look up Determinism. It was believed that everything was predetermined, and there was no such thing as chance. This line of thinking follows from the logic that if you know the speed and velocity of say a bowling ball, you could calculate whether it will hit another bowling ball, and where that ball will go etc etc. So if you knew everything, you could rpedict their interactions as it would follow a logical sequence. Hence, according to that line of thing, there is no free will, no choice, no chance. Every thought we have, every choice we make, every event that happens is a result of previous physical interactions between countless atoms, and would have happened come hell or high water.

However with the advent of Quantum Mechanics, the accepted belief is that there is such a thing as chance, and that it is impossible for everything to be predetermined. This is because you cant know all the properties of anything at any one time. It is theoretically possible to know the speed and direction of an atom at time x, but if you know the speed and velocity it is thought to be impossible to know the exact location of it at the same time. On the flip side, if you know the exact location of an atom at time x, it is impossible to know the speed/velocity. So yeah, at least according to current theory, you cant just calculate everything.

And while were at it, its not possible to prove we exist either.

[BurnMyFaith]

Originally posted by: Knives122
So basically fate and everything like that is based on choice(a little matrixy), choice is what determines the past, present, and futrure, and the choices you make leads you down certain paths(there are multiple paths, that you can take based on your choices) and Naruot IMO is going down the path that he believes is the sure fire way to his ideal perfection(becoming Hokage)

So IMO Neji was right about being predetermined to fate(and maybe choice), Nejis fate was to lose to Naruto because he choose to underestimate Naruto.

Interesting thought. But ultimately Naruto didn't have a choice in the BIGGEST aspect of his life. Having the Nine-Tails sealed within him. Now is it not a partial tampering of fate in his life that braught that about..Or is it based solely on the CHOICE the 4th made to do so? If that were the case then you(more so I) Fate is actuallly an ideal manifestation and reasoning for the effect OTHER peoples choices have on
<u>your</u> life.

[Coolman]

Whoever believes in fate is a moron. Live your damn life the way you want to.

Neji's fate talk is just him venting because of what happened to his father. I doubt he believes it anymore, especailly since he is now the one to inherit the Hyuuga bloodline the most.

[BurnMyFaith]

Originally posted by: Coolman
Whoever believes in fate is a moron. Live your damn life the way you want to.

Neji's fate talk is just him venting because of what happened to his father. I doubt he believes it anymore, especailly since he is now the one to inherit the Hyuuga bloodline the most.

You can live your life as much as you want, but that doesn't mean that other peoples choices won't have an affect on your choices and life. Like I said before. Fate could just be the representation of all the other things that you ultimately have no control over. (weather, other peoples choices, an insect biting you while you sleep)

[jing]

No one can tell the future. Naruto is not always right. He steps on shit.

[Agrippa]

twice.

[Terracosmo]

If his talk is right or not is a matter of who you ask, since it takes a person who believes in fate to believe what he says. Personally, I do. Because when someone says "I am in full control of what I do", how do you know that the thing he eventually does isn't destined? The things you do, become fate! Cool huh?!

[EpoC]

how do a person know if it's fate or not? You may belive that you made a choice but it was your destiny to make that choice.
Maybe it was fate that made me start watching naruto. And the choice I made was my destiny.
So how do I know If I have a free will, If every choice I make is could be my fate.