Is genjutsu more than just "illusion"

[Assertn]

just minor inconsistencies that only otakus would concern themselves with [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

in cases where the debate hasnt been directly answered in the story, you just gotta go with the one that seems most logical

[Feannag]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
I read somewhere that the hand seals used to perform jutsu are simply a motion component that replaces the verbal component traditionally used in spell casting. This came from an interview done with the creator of naruto. So, if that's the case, then jutsu is magic and I'm wondering if genjutsu (even if it litterally means illusion) is more than just illusion, like charm spells (which is what I think Itachi used). The total darkness technique also seemed like it was more than illusion, just not quite a direct damage or defense attack. Same with zabuza's mist. What do you think?

I would think it's a little different than magic. Most magics, if you would, rely more on using outside components to create the results. Usually as in material (ingredients, reagents) somatic (hand gestures) and verbal (chanting or words) forms, in specific combinations and such. And depending on the system, the magic will take some kind of toll onthe caster, most popular being mana. Mana in essence being a spiritual force which all living beings have.

As for jutsus, there are some differences. To use them usually one has to form a specific sequence to hand seals. And before that the user must draw up and direct chakra. You must use mind and soul to draw upon the bio-energy which is commonly composed of chakra, and hand seals are used to form the chakra into the desired effect once it leaves the body.

If anything, jutsus are more of a spiritual/psychic ability than magic.

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
genjutsu messes with the five senses; sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. it can't do any actual physical damage. from what we've seen tsukuyomi is aimed for the the opponents' hearing, sight, and touch. i don't know about smell and touch since that's not clearly shown. it didn't do any physical damage to the actual body but it made kakashi's mind think that the body was stabbed for however long it was.

From what Itachi stated, Tsukuyomi is more than a simply illusionary technique. As shown, genjutsu are designed to trick or fool one or more sense but they cannot go against reality and physical law. A keen observer can usually dispel genjutu if they observer knows which senses are being tricked and how.

Tsukuyomi is more than this, it seems to be a realm either completely created using Itachi's mind or could be an alternate reality he has access to. When he uses it, the jutsu seems to use chakra to draw the victim's collective consciousness (mind, spirit, and soul) into Tsukuyomi. And that is why it's not a normal genjutsu, nor can it be negated by trying to realize it's not real.

It is not tricking the physical senses, it tricks the spiritual and mental senses. Which is most likely why it is so throughly effective at lacking any sort of defense or negation but someone else who posseses the same abilities and talents.

[Jessper]

I would think it's a little different than magic. Most magics, if you would, rely more on using outside components to create the results. Usually as in material (ingredients, reagents) somatic (hand gestures) and verbal (chanting or words) forms, in specific combinations and such.

So they only use hand gestures and not the other 2, I don't see how this differs when sometimes it is shown as them only using words to cast a spell.

And depending on the system, the magic will take some kind of toll onthe caster, most popular being mana. Mana in essence being a spiritual force which all living beings have.

Kind of like...chakara?

As for jutsus, there are some differences. To use them usually one has to form a specific sequence to hand seals. And before that the user must draw up and direct chakra. You must use mind and soul to draw upon the bio-energy which is commonly composed of chakra, and hand seals are used to form the chakra into the desired effect once it leaves the body.

This might just be akin to your example of mana, you never know!

If anything, jutsus are more of a spiritual/psychic ability than magic.

Spiritual ability is generaly thought of as magic(witches ect) and i don't think jutsus relate to psychic abilitys at all.

[CheesyPuffs144]

http://health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/2966.html
- quick google with term "local anesthesia"
- note the "inability to feel pain" in first sentence

When you say "physical pain", I assume you refer to pain felt after something physical is done to the body. That would be physical pain, as opposed to other pain (mental, spiritual, social health and whatnot). However, humans can cause pain to not be felt even though the physical cause is there (think surgery and anesthesia, getting cut up but no pain). Of course, [I don't believe that] we have ways of causing physical pain without a physical cause (opposite of anesthesia), but in the make anime world of Naruto, Itachi can, with his technique. It is debatable, however, if the pain from the technique is mental or physical. However, if a mind feels there is physical pain, there are certain measures it takes, which could then lead to actual pain, because the measures are being taken when nothing is wrong.

edit: random grammar mistakes