Is genjutsu more than just "illusion"

**Uchiha Barles** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 01:34 AM

I read somewhere that the hand seals used to perform jutsu are simply a motion component that replaces the verbal component traditionally used in spell casting. This came from an interview done with the creator of naruto. So, if that's the case, then jutsu is magic and I'm wondering if genjutsu (even if it litterally means illusion) is more than just illusion, like charm spells (which is what I think Itachi used). The total darkness technique also seemed like it was more than illusion, just not quite a direct damage or defense attack. Same with zabuza's mist. What do you think?

**Mut** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 01:44 AM

genjutsu messes with the five senses; sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. it can't do any actual physical damage. from what we've seen tsukuyomi is aimed for the the opponents' hearing, sight, and touch. i don't know about smell and touch since that's not clearly shown. it didn't do any physical damage to the actual body but it made kakashi's mind think that the body was stabbed for however long it was.

**Uchiha Barles** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 01:52 AM

Sounds about right, but lets say the total darkness technique, would someone outside of it's area of effect be able to see into it, even they weren't there when it was cast?

**Kale Ironfist** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 02:35 AM

as far as the manga or anime has shown, you can't see in or out of it

**Stoopider** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 03:30 PM

Probably when he cast it, he starts a fire. And then the black smoke covers the whole place till nobody can see in or out. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

**orn210** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 08:02 PM

i think itachi only uses illusion.......

NM · Wed, 06-02-2004, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by: orn210
i think itachi only uses illusion.......

Itachi isnt the only ninja who uses illusions. If you remember a little back, Kurenai used an illusion technique against Itachi where she made his mind think there was a tree behind him and the branches caught him. But that didnt work against badass Itachi [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

**Mut** · Wed, 06-02-2004, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by: NarutoMaster

Originally posted by: orn210
i think itachi only uses illusion.......

Itachi isnt the only ninja who uses illusions. If you remember a little back, Kurenai used an illusion technique against Itachi where she made his mind think there was a tree behind him and the branches caught him. But that didnt work against badass Itachi [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

uhhh i think he meant that genjutsu is the only thing itachi uses. you're thinking of "ONLY itachi uses genjutsu"

**orn210** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: NarutoMaster

Originally posted by: orn210
i think itachi only uses illusion.......

Itachi isnt the only ninja who uses illusions. If you remember a little back, Kurenai used an illusion technique against Itachi where she made his mind think there was a tree behind him and the branches caught him. But that didnt work against badass Itachi [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

uhhh i think he meant that genjutsu is the only thing itachi uses. you're thinking of "ONLY itachi uses genjutsu"

true true i meant he only uses the illusion type of genjutsu [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

**-ANBU-Sasuke-** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
genjutsu messes with the five senses; sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. it can't do any actual physical damage. from what we've seen tsukuyomi is aimed for the the opponents' hearing, sight, and touch. i don't know about smell and touch since that's not clearly shown. it didn't do any physical damage to the actual body but it made kakashi's mind think that the body was stabbed for however long it was.

Itachi stated "just because this is an illusion, don't think the pain is fake" or something along those lines. It manipulates the sense of Pain, so therefore tricking your mind and inflicting physical pain. Tsukuyomi, is a mental world, and is manipulated as the user wishes.

Genjutsu is Normaly not real (Tsukuyomi is an exception), it as Mut@t@ said, it only tricks the mind into feeling emotions, and ect. So genjutsu can be concidered more than a illusion, it can be very real, depending on how your mind interprets it.

Zabuza's Mist? It just created extra extra mist. thats about it, or at least it created a false mist. or which ever.

I might be totatly wrong or right, its about 85 degrees here and i cant think!

**Mut** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by: -ANBU-Sasuke-

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
genjutsu messes with the five senses; sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. it can't do any actual physical damage. from what we've seen tsukuyomi is aimed for the the opponents' hearing, sight, and touch. i don't know about smell and touch since that's not clearly shown. it didn't do any physical damage to the actual body but it made kakashi's mind think that the body was stabbed for however long it was.

Itachi stated "just because this is an illusion, don't think the pain is fake" or something along those lines. It manipulates the sense of Pain, so therefore tricking your mind and inflicting physical pain. Tsukuyomi, is a mental world, and is manipulated as the user wishes.

Genjutsu is Normaly not real (Tsukuyomi is an exception), it as Mut@t@ said, it only tricks the mind into feeling emotions, and ect. So genjutsu can be concidered more than a illusion, it can be very real, depending on how your mind interprets it.

Zabuza's Mist? It just created extra extra mist. thats about it, or at least it created a false mist. or which ever.

I might be totatly wrong or right, its about 85 degrees here and i cant think!

i'm not sure if i am understanding you correctly but you're saying that tsukuyomi makes you to inflict physical pain by tricking your mind...? if that's so then i'd have to disagree with you. there is NO way the mind can inflict physical pain. kakashi was not bleeding anywhere. if tsukuyomi did trick kakashi's mind to cause actual physical pain, then we would've seen kakashi with thousand stab wounds on his body, bleeding everywhere. tsukuyomi made the mind think that kakashi felt the pain but there weren't any physical damage.

***Assertn*** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 10:31 PM

pain is a sensational response to something physically happening to your body
the cause of the pain is usually a real thing, but the sensation is still just a sense....so technically it would still fall under genjutsu

and zabuza's mist would prolly be a ninjutsu, not genjutsu....since he was literally using chakra to turn the water into mist

as for the darkness jutsu, unless they actually showed the anbu guys acknowledge it being dark or something (cant really remember), i would assume that it was more of just something that only the hokage saw. Some genjutsu affect the whole environment, while others affect only the target's perception of the environment. It wouldnt make sense for the darkness jutsu to fall into the former of those two categories, since it would hinder the sight of the 1st, 2nd, and orochimaru as well.

**Himura_san** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: -ANBU-Sasuke-

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
genjutsu messes with the five senses; sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. it can't do any actual physical damage. from what we've seen tsukuyomi is aimed for the the opponents' hearing, sight, and touch. i don't know about smell and touch since that's not clearly shown. it didn't do any physical damage to the actual body but it made kakashi's mind think that the body was stabbed for however long it was.

Itachi stated "just because this is an illusion, don't think the pain is fake" or something along those lines. It manipulates the sense of Pain, so therefore tricking your mind and inflicting physical pain. Tsukuyomi, is a mental world, and is manipulated as the user wishes.

Genjutsu is Normaly not real (Tsukuyomi is an exception), it as Mut@t@ said, it only tricks the mind into feeling emotions, and ect. So genjutsu can be concidered more than a illusion, it can be very real, depending on how your mind interprets it.

Zabuza's Mist? It just created extra extra mist. thats about it, or at least it created a false mist. or which ever.

I might be totatly wrong or right, its about 85 degrees here and i cant think!

i'm not sure if i am understanding you correctly but you're saying that tsukuyomi makes you to inflict physical pain by tricking your mind...? if that's so then i'd have to disagree with you. there is NO way the mind can inflict physical pain. kakashi was not bleeding anywhere. if tsukuyomi did trick kakashi's mind to cause actual physical pain, then we would've seen kakashi with thousand stab wounds on his body, bleeding everywhere. tsukuyomi made the mind think that kakashi felt the pain but there weren't any physical damage.

I am not bio major but if you cut your finger there is information relayed to your brain that lets the brain know that you are damaged. If someone gets in a traumatic accident the brain will recieve certain signals that will make it command the body to release certain chemicals to suppress the pain. This is referred to as a state of shock. These chemicals are equal in power to morphine and if enough is released in the body, that person may even become comatose or die. In reality with no physical damage, if certain signals are sent to the brain the brain can "kill" the body.
I think this is what happened to Kakashi where he went into a state of shock and eventually passed out for a couple days.
Again I'm no bio major or anything. ;p

**miaka** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 11:35 PM

i think what tsukuyomi does is.. it does not inflict physical damage.. but it's totally strong genjitsu that you can't get out of it by just telling your brain it's not real... he gets them into a world where he can create almost anything.. adn tricks ppl... with kakashi.. i do not really think he actually was damaging kakashi's soul.. prob just was tricking him... but it seems to be a quite strong genjitsu like i mentioned

**Darkflare** · Thu, 06-03-2004, 11:44 PM

i think it may partly have to do with how a person reacts to something that seems extremely real or something. like, if you see something in your head that seems so real that it had to be or if you believe in it so much, it can become partly true. or something. and im sure there was plenty of psychological damage causing them to go all but insane

**dafashizzle** · Fri, 06-04-2004, 08:24 PM

I agree with anyone who thinks its more than an illusion. Actually pain can be done mentaly if not physicaly.

**-ANBU-Sasuke-** · Fri, 06-04-2004, 08:34 PM

Okay, maybe i didn't include that there wasn't REAL Physical Damage done to the body.

Proof One of Pain is not fake
Explaination Part 2 of Technique

There you have it.

Im too lazy to write anything logical or smart at the moment beside this. ^_^

**orn210** · Fri, 06-04-2004, 11:18 PM

they did say that it was only mental damage

**ShinobiNeko** · Fri, 06-04-2004, 11:24 PM

well, by looking at those pic's Anbu Sasuke put then it's more then mental damage, he said it's real. Maybe it's internally, the damage. But then again, since that is his world, he could have just been saying that to make it seem that much more real

**orn210** · Fri, 06-04-2004, 11:40 PM

sasuke got it from itachi's piece of taijutsu not from the mangekyou sharingan

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