Trick to Counter the Sharingan?

[Mut]

OT: i'll explain about my site. i am sorry that i can't pleas all you guys and have EVERYTHING updated and there are a lot of things i ignore because i think putting in stuff like "is haku a girl?" is stupid. also, it's not even for the anime readers in the first place. it was specifically for the manga readers, but i fixed it up so anime newbs won't be spoiled. anyway, i don't spend my whole time working on it each day and it probably won't be updated (big updates) for several weeks since i have finals coming up soon.

ok, back on topic. how do you not understand that itachi's sharingan is better than kakashi's? (NOTE: everytime i say itachi's sharingan is better, i'm ignoring mangekyou sharingan) kakashi's sharingan cannot be used to it's full potential and that is ignoring mangekyou sharingan. since kakashi isn't a full blooded uchiha, he cannot use it as long and as accurately as itachi can. that alone should just tell you that kakashi can't use it to read and copy jutsus as well as itachi can. did you not notice how kakashi admited that his sharingan was barely keeping up with itachi while itachi had no problem? also, remember that kakashi said that he can't use the sharingan perfectly and this was before even the idea of mangekyou sharingan was introduced. yes, reading and copying jutsus have no relevance to what we're talking about right now, but it's a solid evidence to explain that itachi's sharingan is more advanced.

and stop bringing this up: 'gai can beat kakashi with his method.' if gai can beat him with such method, why are they considered eternal rivals? what is the point of being eternal rivals when it's so one sided? and why don't you prove that it works on itachi as well? can you? no. all you're doing it trying to apply a method to a higher degree of a situation to support your theory. it's actually a huge jump from applying it to kakashi's and then applying to itachi's considering kakashi isn't even an uchiha.

sorry to break it to you but, your theory is not 100% sound. and if you're gonna post "whatever, muppet" don't bother posting at all. that's spamming.

EDIT: and let's think about this. what if eye contact isn't even needed for mangekyou sharingan? what if the eyes just have to be opened? maybe that's why kakashi told asuma and kurenai to close them instead of just saying 'don't look at itachi's eyes.' isn't the latter a safer option than having both of your eyes closed rendering you basically completely useless? i think this is the main reason why you need to be a uchiha to defeat another uchiha. since genjutsu effects your five senses (sight, touch, taste, smell and sound), you could be looking down and itachi could turn the world into something crazy by altering your senses. that's what tsukuyomi does. it made kakashi feel like it was three days long (or however long it was) and kakashi felt the actual pain.

[SK]

well looks like chambers is increasing his lead for idiot of the year. chambers is wrong, mut@t@ is right. what works against kakashi's ghetto ass sharingan doesnt mean will work against itachi, who is the strongest sharingan user we've seen. itachi also has the uchiha body, meaning he can use the sharingan way longer than kakashi can. gai's strategy would not work against itachi, since his sharingan would anticipate gai's movements. and how do we know sharingan is weak against taijutsu? im guessing you got this idea from the lee vs sasuke fight, well sasuke's sharingan is not even developed yet, plus lee was way ahead of sasuke at that time.

[Assertn]

let us not forget that in a match between the two sharingan users, itachi was wiping the floor with kakashi.....do you think itachi NEEDED to use the mangekyou sharingan to beat kakashi?....personally it seemed to me like he was doing fine even before using it, and if you cant accredit that to him having a better sharingan, then what CAN you accredit it to?

[Death BOO Z]

Mut@t@, i have to disagree with you about this one...
Gai practised his 'look on the feet' techinuque on Kakashi, to avoid possible hypnotizem from the sharingan (Zabuza did the same, with the mist and the closed eyes), and since Itachi's eye is no diffrent that Kakashi's eye, i'm quite sure that Gai won't get mangakyou-ed...

Note: when i say that thier eyes aren't diffrent, i mean that Itachi can't relocate his eye to his feet, and doesn't have a tremndously HUGE eyeball, which you have to look at...

more than that, you say that it's immpossible to fight with someone while focusing on the feet alone, but Gai has done it against Kakashi's, and even though Itachi might be faster than Kakashi (might, i'm not sure wheather it was said exactly or not), then so is Gai, and from the fact that he continued to battle Kakashi, we know that even while focusing on one's lower part, Gai can still keep fighting at least at Kakashi's speed...

If Itachi was to stay there, he would probably be killed by the mass amount of ANBU's coming, even though Itachi is tough, he can't fight against the whole world and win... i'm positive that if you face him against any pair of the 'elite' charecters (hokages, Sannin, Kakashi, Gai, Kabuto and perhaps Anko) Itachi will get his ass tossed around...
but that isn't relevent for the disscussion, so forget about it...

anyway, Gai's way of fighting Sharingan users is effective, at least on the immidiate target, Gai won't be a subject to the Mangakyou sharingan, the battle (which would probably end with Itachi as the winner) will be a 'normal' battle of Ninjutu and Taijutsu..

Benjamin, third degree researcher in the field of 'doing nothing at school all day'...

[IamSpazzy]

Actually I think that Gai can probably negate all of Itachi's sharingan powers by simply not looking him in the eye. the best analogy that I can come up with is when odysseus got his men to plug up their eyes to prevent the sirens from luring them to the rocks. by not looking into the eye of a sharingan user, there's nothing he can do with it i.e. no matter how well the sirens sing, if you're deaf, it won't affect you.

but...that being said, I think that gai would still lose to itachi only because itachi is probably much faster than gai, can predict gai's moves with sharingan (though not affect gai directly), and probably has a ton of jitsus that he can throw gai's way. it would be akin to asking if gai could beat any of the sanin's. the sanin's, the kages, and itachi could all beat gai handedly with the raw power in terms of amount of chakra, experience, speed, and number of jitsus that they have.

Itachi's primary advantage me thinks is not his sharingan, but the fact that he can whip off jitsus without using hand seals (it seemed that way after the last episode). I don't think that the sharingan is the most powerful bloodline ability in the naruto world.

[Assertn]

But Death BOO Z, you can't argue that the rivalry between gai and kakashi is on nearly equal grounds.....and this is even considering that gai knows tricks to counter the sharingan

If gai had a solid lead over kakashi, then that would be one thing.....but if his eternal rival is someone who is clearly lower than itachi in the way that gives them their fighting advantage (i.e. the sharingan).....then to have a chance against itachi is very unlikely

in other words, if gai = kakashi, and itachi > kakashi, then itachi > gai

EDIT: and to add to IamSpazzy's post.......yes, even if the sharingan cant hypnotize gai, it can still give itachi the edge of being able to see gai's movement....AND itachi prolly knows lots of jutsus that he could perform in an instant, thus he wouldnt even need the sharingan to fight gai

[kyuubi_]

not forgetin fish head was at the scene too.. don't you think that fish head have his eyes opened too ?
yeah.. Itachi can copy and read images faster and better than kakashi.. but Gai is a taijutsu user.. thinkin that rock lee can attain that speed.. imagine how fast will gai move at ?

it's just a verbal discription between the relationship between both of them by usin "eternal rivals". it doesn't mean that Gai can't defeat itachi ? anyway.. kakashi is more likely to beat Gai IMO coz he've battle with Gai countless times ? of coz you'll know your opponent's strong and weak pt.

yes. i did judge from the part where sasuke was wacked by rock lee.. but do you remember that rock lee said that it's pointless if your eyes can catch up but your body can't ? and remember how a uchiha got wack so hard that he can't even have a chance to retaliate ?

anyway. i'm Itachi's fan as well.. but putting these into consideration.. don't you think that it makes more sense ?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
Mut@t@, i have to disagree with you about this one...
Gai practised his 'look on the feet' techinuque on Kakashi, to avoid possible hypnotizem from the sharingan (Zabuza did the same, with the mist and the closed eyes), and since Itachi's eye is no diffrent that Kakashi's eye, i'm quite sure that Gai won't get mangakyou-ed...

Note: when i say that thier eyes aren't diffrent, i mean that Itachi can't relocate his eye to his feet, and doesn't have a tremndously HUGE eyeball, which you have to look at...

more than that, you say that it's immpossible to fight with someone while focusing on the feet alone, but Gai has done it against Kakashi's, and even though Itachi might be faster than Kakashi (might, i'm not sure wheather it was said exactly or not), then so is Gai, and from the fact that he continued to battle Kakashi, we know that even while focusing on one's lower part, Gai can still keep fighting at least at Kakashi's speed...

i'm not talking about being hypnotized by sharingan and i've been excluding mangekyou sharingan the whole time. 'looking at the feet' method doesn't even sound right. the whole point of that method is to not get mangekyou'd, i assume. that's fine but how is that going to help against a sharingan user besides not being hit by tsukuyomi? that actually puts you at a disadvantage since all you can do is focus on their feet (or lower body) and 'predict' their movements. ...what? predicting movements? isn't that the sharingan is for??? if you use that method, you eliminate mangekyou sharingan, but you suffer the greater sacrifice because you have to guess that the opponent is gonna do next while the opponent can still fight prefectly fine.

and i'm not saying that it's impossible to fight someone while focusing on their feet.

[Jessper]

Chambers your assuming that the sharingan has to make eye contact to do anything at all, it can still follow movements better than a normal eye. From the one time we have seen itachi fight it seems he is beyond fast compared to kakshi so it is really a null point.

On the flip side, Chambers you have no proof that it does work as we havn't seen them put it to the test maybe 2 sharingan's rather than kakshi's one eliminates the need to make eye contact? We really have no clue from the anime and this is a fiction so no matter what makes sense and should prove to be a sound theory may end up not working as it is the wrighter's world with their laws controling the world not ours.

[kyuubi_]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
Mut@t@, i have to disagree with you about this one...
Gai practised his 'look on the feet' techinuque on Kakashi, to avoid possible hypnotizem from the sharingan (Zabuza did the same, with the mist and the closed eyes), and since Itachi's eye is no diffrent that Kakashi's eye, i'm quite sure that Gai won't get mangakyou-ed...

Note: when i say that thier eyes aren't diffrent, i mean that Itachi can't relocate his eye to his feet, and doesn't have a tremndously HUGE eyeball, which you have to look at...

more than that, you say that it's immpossible to fight with someone while focusing on the feet alone, but Gai has done it against Kakashi's, and even though Itachi might be faster than Kakashi (might, i'm not sure wheather it was said exactly or not), then so is Gai, and from the fact that he continued to battle Kakashi, we know that even while focusing on one's lower part, Gai can still keep fighting at least at Kakashi's speed...

i'm not talking about being hypnotized by sharingan and i've been excluding mangekyou sharingan the whole time. 'looking at the feet' method doesn't even sound right. the whole point of that method is to not get mangekyou'd, i assume. that's fine but how is that going to help against a sharingan user besides not being hit by tsukuyomi? that actually puts you at a disadvantage since all you can do is focus on their feet (or lower body) and 'predict' their movements. ...what? predicting movements? isn't that the sharingan is for??? if you use that method, you eliminate mangekyou sharingan, but you suffer the greater sacrifice because you have to guess that the opponent is gonna do next while the opponent can still fight prefectly fine.

and i'm not saying that it's impossible to fight someone while focusing on their feet.

don't you see that line that Gai said he've fought with kakashi before and also the sharingan ?
can't he practice before hand ? like i said.. if kakashi knows there's mangekyou.. why can't Gai?

[kyuubi_]

Originally posted by: Jessper
Chambers your assuming that the sharingan has to make eye contact to do anything at all, it can still follow movements better than a normal eye. From the one time we have seen itachi fight it seems he is beyond fast compared to kakshi so it is really a null point.

On the flip side, Chambers you have no proof that it does work as we havn't seen them put it to the test maybe 2 sharingan's rather than kakshi's one eliminates the need to make eye contact? We really have no clue from the anime and this is a fiction so no matter what makes sense and should prove to be a sound theory may end up not working as it is the wrighter's world with their laws controling the world not ours.

well.. if you're talkin bout this.. then can you explain how rock lee prevent himself from bangin into walls when he's fighting with gaara at that amazing speed ? don't forget all the other jounins are astonish with his speed and they also said they can't keep up with his movement.

[Assertn]

only the genins said they couldnt keep up with his movement, besides....we KNOW that the sharingan lets you follow movements better because that is how sasuke managed to dodge haku's ice mirror attacks

[Mut]

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
don't you see that line that Gai said he've fought with kakashi before and also the sharingan ?
can't he practice before hand ? like i said.. if kakashi knows there's mangekyou.. why can't Gai?

...? i dunno what you're trying to prove.

ok, listen. after gai or a non-uchiha who is on itachi's level and uses gai's method fights itachi...let's call this man fighter A. ok, well, let's see. itachi still can use the sharingan (not mangekyou sharingan) to read, copy, and defeat all jutsus fighter A can perform while figher A can only look at itachi's feet and try to guess what itachi's next move is. who do you think will win? the guy who is fighting without any disadvantages or the guy who is constantly looking at the feet.

it's like, you guys think that gai's method totally negates the sharingan, making it absolutely useless. all it does is save your ass from being mangekyou'd. and why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that itachi said only uchihas can beat another uchiha? it's not like he said it for no reason.

[kyuubi_]

so you mean that jounins have better eyes ?
how bout hokage ? they've about the same eyes as sharingan ?

If Gai have to fight itachi.. he won't be that dumb to only stay there and monitor Itachi's leg... but with his high speed movement.. don't you think itachi will have trouble dodgin attacks ??

[kyuubi_]

so you mean that jounins have better eyes ?
how bout hokage ? they've about the same eyes as sharingan ?

If Gai have to fight itachi.. he won't be that dumb to only stay there and monitor Itachi's leg... but with his high speed movement.. don't you think itachi will have trouble dodgin attacks ??

[chambers]

ok here goes at last a thought out reply. thought but full of holes iam sorry to say.

ok so ill give you that obvioulsy itachi can use normal shringan for a hell of a lot longer than kakashi (only assumed but pretty much taken for granted). you seem to have accepted that mangekyou sharingan will nt be a part baring an incredible lapse of concentration on the part of whomever fights him (or the lack of knowledged would so it of course). so other than stamina what advatages do you know FOR A FACT from the anime that being from the uchiha clan actually gives you? lets say for example (and iam being generous because its never implyed) that it does confer on the user some insane speed when performing jinjutsu. so what? i hardley think the speed of creating seals matters to someone who doesnt even use it in battle at all. therefore someone using gais style clearly is at no loss if we put him at the same ratio of power that is apparent in gai v kakashi. i say it doesnt matter because obviously gai has some skill in countering or evading the techniques and its the speed of the technique itself that will ultimatley be the decider not the quater of a second less it takes to form the seals.
.
ok so i think that sums that up. stamina is th eonly issue here. itachi has it kakashi doesnt. gai CLEARLY has it as he is a physical type person. so while its certainly less of an issue than you make it out to be its still a *slight* issue.

S-K i dont care what you say. the lee V sasuke fight is a PERFECT example of what to expect (of course not as one sided but still). we can see it STATED that its all fine and dandy if you can see it coming but if you cannt physically bring your had to there leg then they will kick you. you see how shocked sasuke is at lees NATURAL movement, and yes i relise that there is a VERY high chance that itachi has fought somone close to or even matching gais speed so again that point is belittled somwhat. so then you say sasuke isnt fully developed eh? well neither is lee. its clearly a comparable situation they are both weak, both at the same level same as gai and kakashi, same as who ever would fight itachi with gai's style. do you think that neji vs lee wouldnt be an accurate foreshadowing of the head of the clan vs gai?


and mutata unless your going to adress other people who insult me (to whom i was replying BTW) i suggest you keep your opinion to yourself. the guy who posted before me was spamming and i didnt want to ignore him as thats what i did initial to all these idiots and people like S-K appeared who think they can argue with everything i say and insult me for no reason without me replying. aint happenin.

EDIT: people have posted b4 this one got there so ill add something. mutat it means nothing that he said only another uchiha can beat him, people say stuff all the time sthat is just plain BS. its just trash talk. @ kyuubi i think that the answer it YES. if in the world of naruto we know of two clans already that have power located in the eye, than can be improved with training, then we can only assume that normall eyes can be trained in the same way (although obvioulsy with less spectacular results), after all the eye is moved by a muscle and like any muscle you can train it.

[kyuubi_]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
don't you see that line that Gai said he've fought with kakashi before and also the sharingan ?
can't he practice before hand ? like i said.. if kakashi knows there's mangekyou.. why can't Gai?

...? i dunno what you're trying to prove.

ok, listen. after gai or a non-uchiha who is on itachi's level and uses gai's method fights itachi...let's call this man fighter A. ok, well, let's see. itachi still can use the sharingan (not mangekyou sharingan) to read, copy, and defeat all jutsus fighter A can perform while figher A can only look at itachi's feet and try to guess what itachi's next move is. who do you think will win? the guy who is fighting without any disadvantages or the guy who is constantly looking at the feet.

it's like, you guys think that gai's method totally negates the sharingan, making it absolutely useless. all it does is save your ass from being mangekyou'd. and why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that itachi said only uchihas can beat another uchiha? it's not like he said it for no reason.

I would say that if i'm Gai.. i won't be dumb to keep my eyes all the while on his legs.. and yes its dumb..
If gai can monitor itachi's movement by lookin at his legs.. then he could possibly get behind itachi and have the chance to get the vision of the whole itachi..

like i said.. gai have trained fighting kakashi with lookin at his legs only.. i doubt kakashi have a slower speed than itachi.. just that his sharingan are slower..

Gaara said he've ultimate defense.. but was penetrate by chidori too..

[chambers]

ALSO please remeber iam NOT saying gai can beat itachi, i think his level is far too low. but if there was somone who used the exact same fighting style as gai but was stronger then yes i think he coudl beat him.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
so you mean that jounins have better eyes ?
how bout hokage ? they've about the same eyes as sharingan ?

If Gai have to fight itachi.. he won't be that dumb to only stay there and monitor Itachi's leg... but with his high speed movement.. don't you think itachi will have trouble dodgin attacks ??

ugh... do you seriously not understand what he means by that? he means that jounins are able to read movements better and more accurately than genins can because jounins are more skilled and experienced.

Originally posted by: chambers
ok here goes at last a thought out reply. thought but full of holes iam sorry to say.

ok so ill give you that obvioulsy itachi can use normal shringan for a hell of a lot longer than kakashi (only assumed but pretty much taken for granted). you seem to have accepted that mangekyou sharingan will nt be a part baring an incredible lapse of concentration on the part of whomever fights him (or the lack of knowledged would so it of course). so other than stamina what advatages do you know FOR A FACT from the anime that being from the uchiha clan actually gives you? lets say for example (and iam being generous because its never implyed) that it does confer on the user some insane speed when performing jinjutsu. so what? i hardley think the speed of creating seals matters to someone who doesnt even use it in battle at all. therefore someone using gais style clearly is at no loss if we put him at the same ratio of power that is apparent in gai v kakashi. i say it doesnt matter because obviously gai has some skill in countering or evading the techniques and its the speed of the technique itself that will ultimatley be the decider not the quater of a second less it takes to form the seals.
.
ok so i think that sums that up. stamina is th eonly issue here. itachi has it kakashi doesnt. gai CLEARLY has it as he is a physical type person. so while its certainly less of an issue than you make it out to be its still a *slight* issue.

S-K i dont care what you say. the lee V sasuke fight is a PERFECT example of what to expect (of course not as one sided but still). we can see it STATED that its all fine and dandy if you can see it coming but if you cannt physically bring your had to there leg then they will kick you. you see how shocked sasuke is at lees NATURAL movement, and yes i relise that there is a VERY high chance that itachi has fought somone close to or even matching gais speed so again that point is belittled somwhat. so then you say sasuke isnt fully developed eh? well neither is lee. its clearly a comparable situation they are both weak, both at the same level same as gai and kakashi, same as who ever would fight itachi with gai's style. do you think that neji vs lee wouldnt be an accurate foreshadowing of the head of the clan vs gai?

and mutata unless your going to adress other people who insult me (to whom i was replying BTW) i suggest you keep your opinion to yourself. the guy who posted before me was spamming and i didnt want to ignore him as thats what i did initial to all these idiots and people like S-K appeared who think they can argue with everything i say and insult me for no reason without me replying. aint happenin.

you bring up making fast seals and the speed of a taijutsu user. think about this. which do you think is faster? moving hands and fingers or moving your whole body? fighting against a taijutsu user, it gives itachi more time to read and react to the opponents' movements compared to reading and reacting to simple and quick hand seals.

and just in case you didn't read this, tell me what you think about this scenario in my post:

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
ok, listen. after gai or a non-uchiha who is on itachi's level and uses gai's method fights itachi...let's call this man fighter A. ok, well, let's see. itachi still can use the sharingan (not mangekyou sharingan) to read, copy, and defeat all jutsus fighter A can perform while figher A can only look at itachi's feet and try to guess what itachi's next move is. who do you think will win? the guy who is fighting without any disadvantages or the guy who is constantly looking at the feet.

it's like, you guys think that gai's method totally negates the sharingan, making it absolutely useless. all it does is save your ass from being mangekyou'd. and why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that itachi said only uchihas can beat another uchiha? it's not like he said it for no reason.

and as for addressing people. i don't care if someone insults you or you insult them. just don't put up a post with two meaningless, irrelevant words cuz that's spamming.

Originally posted by: chambers
EDIT: people have posted b4 this one got there so ill add something. mutat it means nothing that he said only another uchiha can beat him, people say stuff all the time sthat is just plain BS. its just trash talk.

LOL wow, man... you are just incredible.

EDIT: response to below:
you still don't get it do you, moron? posting stupid crap like what you wrote underneath is considered spam. i'm just waiting for a mod to tell you that you're an idiot. may not happen but whatevers.

[chambers]

but five or six is ok right?

EDIT: ok ill refere you back to my point that mnay boxer fight by looking ta the feat. if you do anything with any force whatsoever your feet show it, they show which way you are about to run, they show which hand will throw the next punch. also we havent seen a sinlge example of a silent technique (AFAIK apart form itachis) therefore as soon asits performed gai knows what it is.

also your fogetting the fact hat gai has obvioulsy trained with this method, therefore it will probly prove to be a LOT less of a handicap as you would imagein

EDIT again: no i do get it. i get it completely. but why on earth do you feel the need to single me out for such things when clearly just a msg or two before someone did it also. beacuse? iam arguing with you.