Episode 84 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Yeah Itachi's stated reason 'to test my strength' .. is COMPLETELY lame .. we didn't see any strong Uchiha in the flashback, they all looked like Genin or weaker to me, and he goes around killing the elderly? LMAO what a loser... it's gonna be really nice to see Itachi get killed eventually [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

As several people have said, if he wanted to test his strength, he should have challenged the 3rd, or Jiraiya .. oh wait, I forgot .. he's too weak [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

this is absolutely dumb. sorry he was only TWELVE years old and wasn't a kage or one of the sannin.

Still doesn't make any sense to me, 'testing' your strength against a bunch of people who really posed no challenge at all, and ignoring people who WERE actually powerful .. sort of defeats the purpose. Not to mention, how is killing old people a challenge?

I used to not mind Itachi much, but after seeing him in anime form I absolutely hate him .. he's the whole reason we have to put up with Sasuke being a whiny bitch for practically the entire series [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[Mut]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Still doesn't make any sense to me, 'testing' your strength against a bunch of people who really posed no challenge at all, and ignoring people who WERE actually powerful .. sort of defeats the purpose. Not to mention, how is killing old people a challenge?

I used to not mind Itachi much, but after seeing him in anime form I absolutely hate him .. he's the whole reason we have to put up with Sasuke being a whiny bitch for practically the entire series [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

ok... well i'm sure there were people who were very strong in the uchiha clan. they weren't noted as one of the most powerful and feared clan in konoha for nothing. old people thing, i didn't get either, but i think he just killed them cuz they might run off and alert everyone. i'm not too sure about that.

he did ignore some very strong people, but i think he did it cuz he knew he'd get his ass beat. i mean like i'm sure even kakashi could've rocked itachi's ass. no point in trying to fight someone who is clearly stronger than you are... you'd rather live and become stronger.

and i don't know why everyone hates sasuke so much. i am more annoyed with naruto being annoying with his 'i'ma be the hokage' motivational crap. yeah, i know it's his series and all, he's waaay more annoying than sasuke.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Hehe well that's fair, with the obvious respect the Uchiha name has .. there HAD to have been some strong ones, I just wish we had been able to see them in the flashbacks.

And yes, Naruto CAN be a bit annoying with his endless repeating of his goals, but it doesn't seem like he does it *quite* as much as he used to heheheh.

I can only hope that Itachi has other, as-yet-unknown, motivations for his actions, because his STATED reason just doesn't add up .. particularly since no one in the clan really posed a challenge. I mean, it would be like Mike Tyson deciding to test his strength on a bunch of grade-schoolers and then taking off to Paraguay or something ... wait .. Mike Tyson actually might be that crazy IRL [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[XwingRob]

Originally posted by: Shinoro

Did anyone see how quicly Naruto was able to summon chakra from the Kyuubi? He didn't even have to use all of his natural chakra in order to get it, I was really surprised about that, and stunned no one else picked up on it.

Remember, Naruto and Kyuubis' chakras are merging as time passes. So therefore, it should be easier for Naruto to summon up the Kyuubi chakra.

Edit: I also beleived that whenever Naruto summons Kyubbi's chakra, it accelerates the merging process. Maybe soon in the future Naruto might start experiencing "side-effects" because of it.

[logic]

You don't get the old people part?

.............

3rd.. how old was he?

Older you get, you grow weaker, but you gain techniques and experience.

Knowledge is power, and elders have more of that knowledge from life experiences.

Also, Mut@t@, i'm impressed with the way you can answer questions and what have you based on what the anime has presented so far. I know you've read the manga, but it seems that you never reveal anything that hasn't been shown yet.

Impressed and appreciatory.

[MemnochTheCaT]

The old people part .. where Sasuke's grandparents were just standing there .. is what we were talking about [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] How is executing an old couple a 'test' of power?

[Mae]

Do not underestimate old people!

Come on, how old was the 3rd when he fought? Old just means more experience as a ninja. Also, the only fighting we saw in the flashback was the illusion that Itachi summoned up. I bet things were a little harder for him than THAT.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I'm not underestimating old people lol .. just that MOST of them aren't like the 3rd. Sasuke's grandparents just stood there ... REAL intimidating huh?

[Uchiha Barles]

Heh, I said this earlier, but maybe it's not a test of power so much as it's a test of coldness. It's complete speculation, but it's happened in other stories before that someone would do something like that just to make sure they're capable of it. Might be related to his ultimate goals.

[SK]

so how old was itachi in the flashback? i was thinking he was like 14 or something because he was made anbu captain at 13 right? so wouldent this be after he was made an anbu captain. and i agree they didnt seem to show any strong ninja in the clan, and who was the leader of the uchiha clan at that time? was it sasuke's family?

[Mae]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
I'm not underestimating old people lol .. just that MOST of them aren't like the 3rd. Sasuke's grandparents just stood there ... REAL intimidating huh?

As I said, the scene with Itachi killing his grandparents and the rest of the Uchiha so easily was an illusion that he made up for Sasuke just to torture him, not what actually happened.

We don't know what really happened in his fight. I suspect that everyone was so shocked to see their grandson, nephew, whatever relation come at them with a knife that they weren't really able to fight back decently before being killed.

I agree that instead of a test of physical strength it may have been a test of mental strength, or "coldness" as Barles said. Although killing your entire family just to show what an emotionless badass you are...damn. And I STILL don't know why he let Sasuke live.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Exactly, it doesn't add up logically .. testing 'coldness' doesn't make sense, if you are a highly trained ninja you probably know EXACTLY what choices you are capable of making. If you exist to be an elite tool of warfare, espionage, and death .. would there be any doubt that you could execute anyone you chose to?

(A)- Killing your clan is a pretty dumb test of strength, when there are more challenging opponents out there to provide a credible challenge. When Sasuke came across Itachi, Itachi was completely uninjured, and had enough chakra left (at his younger age!) to do Mange Sharingan on him .. that basically means the whole Uchiha clan posed VERY little threat to him ..

(B)- Why leave Sasuke alive? Didn't seem like he cared about him anyway .. maybe he just wanted a witness to tell the rest of Konoha who had done it, so that he would be pursued by hunter-nins (maybe his idea of a REAL challenge?).

(C)- Maybe the images he played back to Sasuke are not real .. this plays into a few different theories that have made their rounds where Itachi may possibly not be what he pretends to be.

The thing that bothers me, is that Itachi *seems* to be more intelligent than what his decisions might lead one to believe, it would be nice if there IS some currently unknown motivations and plot info that we don't know already .. because if Itachi ONLY wanted to test his strength, and left Sasuke to be an annoying bitch for the entire series .. then that's just incredibly lame. Bring on the rest of Akatsuki if that's the case ..

[tensai]

i was wondering, in konoha, does each clan have their own little section to live in, because the uchiha seemed like they had a neighborhood all to themselves?
during the flashback, when sasuke just gets off of school, they somewhat show the kaleidescope sharingan (i think) when itachi was standing on the top of the pole, then he disappears. it could have seemed like that was some genjutsu or something used on sasuke, but i dont really know. or maybe it was to lead sasuke to see the death of his parents. His parents, i think, were the last ones of the uchiha to be killed so sasuke can witness their death

[Eurasian]

itachi probably wanted to push sasuke to become stronger, so sasuke might become a worthy rival. maybe he sees potential...okay, i'm making itachi sound like a good guy...but that's not what i meant. Even if itachi can do he nifty technique, i'm sure other uchihas can do it as well. i thinki they were just taken by surprise that someone of their own blood would do that do them.

This is my 1st post. i'm glad to join the family.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Welcome to Gotwoot [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Stægan]

i also think over half the episode with flashbacks is to mutch



something to think about wiht the nine tails chakra.......he was molding chakra in the room for some time

[Mut]

i think the reason why he tested his strength on his own clan was to test out his mangekyou sharingan. from the looks of it, his sharingan deactivates as soon as mangekyou sharingan is performed so i guess itachi is in the process of mastering the technique.

anyway, i thought itachi was 12 when he massacred his own clan, but it says that he was anbu at 13. if he did do it at 12, then i guess he would've left the village right after therefor, not being able to receive anbu status. this is really weird because during the flash back, sasuke says that he is the same as age itachi when itachi graduated (7). which would mean that itachi was 12 since they are 5 years apart cuz sasuke is or should be 12 right now. but i guess itachi could've been 13 if one year has passed since the first episode til now.

also, i think there is a bigger reason to killing his clan than just 'testing his strength.' i kind of felt like he had another motive when he said 'it's important' (AA trans). i don't think it's completely different than to 'test his strength' but i think it branches off from that motive.

Originally posted by: logic
Also, Mut@t@, i'm impressed with the way you can answer questions and what have you based on what the anime has presented so far. I know you've read the manga, but it seems that you never reveal anything that hasn't been shown yet.

Impressed and appreciatory.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Luchio]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Killing your clan is a pretty dumb test of strength, when there are more challenging opponents out there to provide a credible challenge.

Maybe it's not a good test of physical strength, but it's a good test of mental strength. Maybe he had to do it (kill his family) to enter the evil organization he's in.


------------
Not a manga reader

[Aramis]

great episode! even the flashback part was relatively good. but it had something a little out of place
you see, when Sasuke walks down the streets with dozens of dead clanmates he's just so calm about it and goes home, takes off his sandals, then walks off to look for his parents.... you'd suppose he was a little more, like, in panic.

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Exactly, it doesn't add up logically .. testing 'coldness' doesn't make sense, if you are a highly trained ninja you probably know EXACTLY what choices you are capable of making. If you exist to be an elite tool of warfare, espionage, and death .. would there be any doubt that you could execute anyone you chose to?

(A)- Killing your clan is a pretty dumb test of strength, when there are more challenging opponents out there to provide a credible challenge. When Sasuke came across Itachi, Itachi was completely uninjured, and had enough chakra left (at his younger age!) to do Mange Sharingan on him .. that basically means the whole Uchiha clan posed VERY little threat to him ..

(B)- Why leave Sasuke alive? Didn't seem like he cared about him anyway .. maybe he just wanted a witness to tell the rest of Konoha who had done it, so that he would be pursued by hunter-nins (maybe his idea of a REAL challenge?).

(C)- Maybe the images he played back to Sasuke are not real .. this plays into a few different theories that have made their rounds where Itachi may possibly not be what he pretends to be.

The thing that bothers me, is that Itachi *seems* to be more intelligent than what his decisions might lead one to believe, it would be nice if there IS some currently unknown motivations and plot info that we don't know already .. because if Itachi ONLY wanted to test his strength, and left Sasuke to be an annoying bitch for the entire series .. then that's just incredibly lame. Bring on the rest of Akatsuki if that's the case ..

There's clearly a lot of things we don't know, and we'll probably get to know when Itachi reveals his side of the story. However, about the testing his "coldness" theory, He was only in his early teens. He doesn't have the experience that an older person would. And even if he did, he's still just a kid. At that age, even though you're trying to break away, you're still very attached to your family, especially if they're good to you. So it seems like as valid a theory as any to me.

If it's not to test his viciousness, my next theory would be that the clan existing was in the way somehow. I don't think he was worried about another Uchiha surpassing him since he left Sasuke alive and well, specifically to live, grow stronger, and then kill him. So it has to be something else.