fat guy? not sure what you're talkin about....
but he used a clone to create rasengan against sasuke...i remember cause he used it to follow up that large kage bunshin he pulled off, and when sasuke used his fire move he wiped out all but 2 of them
fat guy? not sure what you're talkin about....
but he used a clone to create rasengan against sasuke...i remember cause he used it to follow up that large kage bunshin he pulled off, and when sasuke used his fire move he wiped out all but 2 of them
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
i think,Originally posted by: Mut@t@
for rasengan, the version i have says this:
"to appreciate the degree of difficulty of this jutsu, he (4th) was six grades above the second... 'a'-rank ultra-high grade level"
"in order to comprehend the jutsu, you need to be at 3rd grade level jutsu"
i don't know what version i have but those two sentences make zero sense to me...
rasengan lvls
1=water balloon
2=rubber ball
3=control.
"in order to comprehend the jutsu, you need to be at 3rd grade level jutsu"
so after lvl 3 u can use it
4=??
5=??
6=??
maybe we get to see other training of jiraiya later on.
and for measuring
2+6=8= 4th's lvl of this jutsu ( get a understanding how great the 4th was, of course it'd make no sense why say 6 grades above the second )
or he means yondaime was like god compaired to the second hokage
^all speculation >_>
no i think the "3rd grade level jutsu" applies to jutsu abilities as a whole...
and 6 grades above the 2nd "a rank blah blah level" means that whatever level the 2nd A rank level is, he's 6 levels above....but that applies to him, not the rasengan, which jiraiya did on purpose to show naruto that someone at a level as high as he was still needed 3 years to master the technique
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
after watching the ANBU episode 87 i think the rasengan level goes like this
it is A rank, and jiraiya says it is second highest, so any jutsu higher would be S rank (why is this anyway) i think all three levels of rasengan, water ballon, rubber, and actual chakra ball are the only 'levels' of the jutsu and producing the chakra ball is A rank. no clue what a S rank jutsu would be as we have not seen one actually identified but i would guess that orochi's immortality, or the death seal of the 4th would be S rank.
i dont think there are higher levels of the rasengan and i doubt we have seen many S rank jutsu's (although none have actually been called such)
ok its like this these levels 1-7 they tell how strong a jutsu is. rasengan is in the 6th level together with other jutsus on similar strength level. then the basic jutsus like bunshin and kawarimi is 1st level. and the 4ths sealing would be a 7th level jutsu i guess.
What about Gaara? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]believe he is saying a defense that is not active. As in you just stand there and seemingly do nothing
As for the whole fire and physical attack thing, I think that a strong guy like Oro, if he just stood there and did nothing (and had no contingencies), could be killed by a simple shruiken or basic fire jutsu.
It seems that all attacks, whether it be a a tidal wave or fireball or whatever, are made up of or powered by chakra. So, it makes sense that chakra could also be used to stop those jutsus, correct?
Just like itachi dodged sasuke's chidori with a simple flick of his wrist, it makes sense that a fireball of the same level could be dodged with a nominal amount of chakra.
There are probably a myriad of gaping holes in that argument, but hell, it was only about 2 minutes of speculation.
We are getting in very complex matters. We are discussing all the what if's and whyfor's. We can do discuss forever if we put our minds to it. But I do believe that there are certain things we should all agree upon.
The Laws of Physics are the same, if not very similar. The fact that ninjas can jump higher than humanly possible is due to chakra (the strength of your legs would have to be insanely high if you were to jump 100 feet in our world). Now there are two factors in the Naruto world that differs it from ours. One is the ability to harness the power of chakra. The second, for a lack of a better word, is mythology. We have the demons after all. What lives can be killed, regardless of strength. You just need someone stronger to kill that greater power. As Robert Jordan wrote, "only a greater power can break a power."
Jutsu comes in "levels", so to speak. Level referring to the level of difficulty. Difficulty is decreed by the amount of chakra, hand seals, and the difficulty of molding the chakra properly. I also think it is fair to say that the "level", or difficulty, of a jutsu increases exponentially. It is much more than twice as hard to perform a jutsu at level three than to perform the same jutsu at level two (if curious, ask me for an explonation. It is rather lengthy).
This is what I think can be firmly set in stone, the rest is just speculation.
I am going to call shenenigans. The laws of physics do _not_ apply to the world of Naruto.
1.Regardless of whether or not chakra enables people to jump super-high, they still have to deal with the landing. The impact of a 1 meter fall has about the same kinetic energy as a bullet. Granted, it is spead over a somewhat larger area (your feet), however if it was 20x that amount (which most of these people seem to be capable), serious injury would occur even if the landing was executed perfectly.
2. Huge snakes, animals, bugs, the choji guy, etc... The snakes are proportional lengthwise to a normal snake, and are say, scaled 100x. The length goes from 2 meters to 200 meters. The snake's strength is increased by 100 squared, or 10000. However, the weight of the snake is increased with the cube of the scaling factor. So, the weight increases by 100 cubed, or a million. The weight increases 100x more than the strength, and a huge snake, frog, slug, centipede, etc. would not be even able to lift itself off the ground, and of course not be able to jump 5 km in the air.
3. I don't think I even need to explain the part where Naruto falls off a cliff, and gamabunta is summoned and naruto lands on him and survives. According to the laws of physics, landing even in water, a huge foam pit, or any other surface would yield the same result as landing on concrete - you would die.
The list goes on and on.
ah but _gaara_ who says they dont use chakra to break their fall when they're landing?
and where do you get the strength being 100 squared? is that some biological formula i dont know about?
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I think it is highly unlikely that they use chakra to break their fall when they land, since it does not mention it anywhere. Take the tree-climbing exercise for example. Naruto goes up a few meters, then lands straight on his head. Did he use chakra to break his head-fall? Probably not. He lost focus of his chakra, and that was the cause for his fall. Would this fall have caused serious injury or death to a real person? Yes.
Granted, this moment was probably intended for comedy, so you can take a more serious note - Naruto climbs up pretty high (about how high sasuke was on his first try) and then falls down and lands on his feet. Is it likely that he could re-focus his chakra to his feet, mid-fall, right after it was lost to make him fall in the first place?
Now, for your other question...
A person or creature's leg strength is directly proportional to their cross-sectional area, like the columns that hold up greek temples. This, in turn, is proportional to the square of the radius of the column, according to the equation -
A= pi times r squared
So, the strength of legs scale up with the square of the scaling factor (hence, 100 squared)
Somewhat similarly, each segment of a creature's body is about the same as a sphere whose weight is proportional to its volume given by the equation:
V=(4/3) times pi times r cubed
With constant density, the weight therefore increases with the cube of the scaling factor.
remember the episode of the simpsons where poochy was introduced to the itchy and scratchy show and there was that convention where some nerdy fan was all talking about a "magical xylophone" where itchy hit the same rib on scratchy twice and it produced a different sound....and then he starts doing that geeky laughter and says "i sure hope someone was fired for that one".......
sorry....your post reminded me of that [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
remember the episode of the simpsons where poochy was introduced to the itchy and scratchy show and there was that convention where some nerdy fan was all talking about a "magical xylophone" where itchy hit the same rib on scratchy twice and it produced a different sound....and then he starts doing that geeky laughter and says "i sure hope someone was fired for that one".......
sorry....your post reminded me of that [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
It's funny how much the simpsons will make fun of their own fans and their geekiness. Simpson's fans are some of the most technically accurate fans their are and they know their Simpson's like a bishop knows his bible (relatively speaking).
anywho back on topic...
I will try my best to answer _gaara_'s arguments he has brought up, since he has taken his time to inform of these physical anomalies that cannot be answered scientifically.
Argument 1:
Regardless of whether or not chakra enables people to jump super-high, they still have to deal with the landing. The impact of a 1 meter fall has about the same kinetic energy as a bullet. Granted, it is spead over a somewhat larger area (your feet), however if it was 20x that amount (which most of these people seem to be capable), serious injury would occur even if the landing was executed perfectly.
answer: It's a cartoon.
Argument 2:
Huge snakes, animals, bugs, the choji guy, etc... The snakes are proportional lengthwise to a normal snake, and are say, scaled 100x. The length goes from 2 meters to 200 meters. The snake's strength is increased by 100 squared, or 10000. However, the weight of the snake is increased with the cube of the scaling factor. So, the weight increases by 100 cubed, or a million. The weight increases 100x more than the strength, and a huge snake, frog, slug, centipede, etc. would not be even able to lift itself off the ground, and of course not be able to jump 5 km in the air.
answer: It's a cartoon.
Argument 3:
I don't think I even need to explain the part where Naruto falls off a cliff, and gamabunta is summoned and naruto lands on him and survives. According to the laws of physics, landing even in water, a huge foam pit, or any other surface would yield the same result as landing on concrete - you would die.
answer: It's a cartoon for F#($! sake get over it!!!
Hmm, Himura, you are an interesting character. If you bothered reading my posts (which is a good idea when you attempt to be a smart-ass), you would have realized that I was not trying to explain how/why things happen in Naruto (which is obvious - it is fiction and the author can do whatever the hell he wants).
I was simply clearing up the misunderstanding that Sidelabel had ("The Laws of Physics are the same, if not very similar [in Naruto, compared to the real world]")
[img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]
Yeah, I think you disproved that theory neatly. But there has to be some laws of physics, and from what we've seen they appear to be relatively similar. Otherwise even normal people jump a 100 feet, or the ninjas would be the only ones able to jump. Obviously, it's because it is a cartoon and the author can do whatever he likes. Last time I checked Naruto didn't fall into the comon sense category (with the snakes and the jutsu and so forth).
it always comes down to ppl attacking each other of things that cannot possibly be answered. at least we made it to the 2nd page. ;p
damn physics, chakra defies all laws!
yes well, i was initially trying to discuss the jutsu level concept that we've heard jiriaya mention once. I wonder if there are any official books or something that talks about the different levels of jutsus like kage bunshin and whatnot.
If you're gonna argue about physics and biology to the point where it has to be absolutely realistic....then you might as well get all the millions of other shows, myths, movies, folktales, and books that break the same arguments you bring up.
In fact, we could recreate a scene with completely accurate physics and maybe, just maybe......it might be half as entertaining! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
ok its like this these levels 1-7 they tell how strong a jutsu is. rasengan is in the 6th level together with other jutsus on similar strength level. then the basic jutsus like bunshin and kawarimi is 1st level. and the 4ths sealing would be a 7th level jutsu i guess.
Actually Jiraya said that Rasengan was a 6 level justu of 8 levels so there is 8 levels not 7.
no he said the rasengan is a 6th level jutsu, second from the top. which means the first from the top is 7 then 6, 5, 4 etc etc.
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
If you're gonna argue about physics and biology to the point where it has to be absolutely realistic....then you might as well get all the millions of other shows, myths, movies, folktales, and books that break the same arguments you bring up.
In fact, we could recreate a scene with completely accurate physics and maybe, just maybe......it might be half as entertaining! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
You seem to have gotten the wrong concept from my posts... I am not saying anything fiction has to be realistic, or that it sucks because it isn't realistic.
However, if you get some movie like The Hulk, and say, "This is a nonfiction movie," or "If there were a guy that big and with muscles that size, he could do what the Hulk did in the movie," I will have no qualms proving you wrong.
Sidelabel had a theory that the physics were the same, if not very similar, to the real world. I was simply saying that this wasn't the case.
from what i heard in the anime and the manga, i think there are only 6 levels of difficulty in jutsus. and i think jiraiya said that the rasengan is A-rank difficulty. i think the 6 levels of jutsus is related to the degree of difficulty of mastering the move. and the amount of understanding the user needs to have before he can perform the move. i'm guessing the level rankings are something like this
highest = S
2nd highest = A
3rd highest = B
middle = C
2nd lowest = D
lowest = E
the rasengan seems like it could be a high level jutsu that involves a lot of understanding of the tricks to using the technique well. even though naruto can use the technique now, he hasn't mastered it compared to jiraiya. jiraiya can create a rasengan in each hand (which is shown when he is teaching naruto how to perform the technique during the 3rd stage), compared to naruto who can only create one with the help of a kage bunshin. so naruto has a long way to go before he can completely master the technique which took the 4th Hokage 3 years to master completely.
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