Chuunins?!

[EpoC]

I think that everyone In the main match is worth the Chunnin title.
Neji - he's a genious that learned kaiten and the other attack by himself ffs, and he is not a bad strategic either.
Gaara - What can I say, he's strong as hell
Sasuke - He's good almost beat Gaara in his normal mode
Temari - She is strong and a good analyzer.
Shikamaru - He's smart as hell and always at least 2 steps before the opponent
Naruto - The main character of this show. has the power of kyubi and can come up with a good plan when he wants to.
Kankuro - He's also good and has probobly the same strength as Temari
Shino - we know what he can do with his creepy bugs, and his strategic head.

I think everyone of them could beat a normal chunnin like mizuki. shouldn't that make them at chunnin lvl?

[Gods_Son]

Originally posted by: EpoC
I think everyone of them could beat a normal chunnin like mizuki. shouldn't that make them at chunnin lvl?

No, it shouldn't

[chambers]

previous to shikamarus fight then yes this woudl have been an acceptable idea but it was made clear that being able to keep a cool head and form stratagies is just is, if not more than important than the ability to whip out some uber moves and pound away.

[Uchiha Barles]

Naruto is not lacking in leadership any more than anyone else. I'll try to make it clear why I think this. In the forest of death, sasuke is the one that came up with the plan that would prevent other people from infiltrating the group when he came up with that long password that Naruto would never remember. Point for Sasuke because he's thinking ahead. Nothing else that involved ledership comes to mind about Sasuke. The other genins, other than shikamaru, haven't really shown any more than Sasuke has (even though you may assume they did)

Naruto on the other hand, motivated Sasuke to go from sissy to badass against Orochimaru. He then came up with the plan to defeat the three ninjas who used the replications. Talking about leadership qualities, motivating your troops is as important as anything else, and being able to do that is a leader's quality. Naruto has it innately and it doesn't matter what exactly it is that gives him that quality.

Combat strategy and tactics are also as important as anything else. To be able to come up with an effective combat plan, you have to possess a good degree of foresight. Naruto, time after time, has come up with combat strategies that made the difference.

As far as "finishing the mission but getting all your troops killed isn't good enough...blah blah..." Naruto has that covered as well. Those goop ninjas. Not only was the plan his, but he defeated them alone, leaving the rest of his team unharmed. Hell, they weren't even tired. As far as the people deciding who has leadership abilities, it seems to me that you can't use the third exam as the guage. A one on one fight is not the same as a team battle or a team mission. You're not worried about protecting your troops, because they're not a part of it.

To make it worse, their judgement was mistaken, because neither naruto nor neiji had a reason to give up on the fight. Naruto has a demon in him that he know how to use, and neiji dominated the fight until naruto pulled out that demon. Was naruto supposed to give up before pulling his trump card? Was neiji suppose to give up before seeing what the demon could do? NO! dammit!

It seems to me like you guys are making your judgement calls based on the overall feeling you get from the characters as opposed to what they've actually shown. If anyone has a counter argument I welcome it (not trying to get into a fight), but please make sure you can topple the things I just stated instead of just posting and leaving everything I said still standing, otherwise, this goes nowhere.

[chambers]

heres a counter argument: for evey piece of amazing strategic thinking naruto has done hes done two things that would get his whole squad killed.

[Uchiha Barles]

Alright, to give an equally useless response, you're wrong.

[chambers]

explain how its useless please? its quite a simple statement, for evey amazing fight naruto has won with some fancy stratagey there are two parts where he would have got his whole squad killed. please xplain to me how thats useless? its a counter argument.

[Uchiha Barles]

Alright, it's useless in that 1) you haven't given a single example to support what you're counter argument, and to support it well, you're going to need more than one, and 2) even if you did, that only takes of one of the points I made, being naruto's aptituted for coming up with with strategies.

v I can't think of of two screw ups for every time he saved the team, or did something brilliant. v

[chambers]

ok, i think the screw ups in just the scene with the bell training far surpass the amount of 'saves' hes had.

and tbh i dont think that with that in mind you need to counter any other parts as that would be the overifing factor.

[Mut]

naruto is pretty much nothing without the kyubi, he would've lost... ummm, virtually EVERY FIGHT?

here are the fights naruto has been in (not counting stupid fights where naruto's opponent(s) sucked complete ass cuz they are insignificant):
1. mizuki (kyubi chakra)
2. demon brothers (kyubi healing)
3. haku (kyubi chakra)
4. orochimaru (kyubi chakra)
5. kagari & co. (kyubi chakra... that's why he was the only one that was able to keep on fighting)
6. kiba (kyubi healing)
7. neji (kyubi chakra)
8. gaara (kyubi chakra)

i'm not including zabuza since it was actually a kakashi vs zabuza fight. and even if i didn't say if naruto used kyubi chakra AND its healing powers, both were obviously used since naruto's healing process happens immediately and automatically after injury. also, kyubi chakra has been mixing with naruto's ever since it was sealed within him.

naruto NEVER gets tired. he can pretty much outlast EVERYONE with his gay kyubi chakra which is involved in every fight one way or another. ugh.

then someone is gonna say: "but naruto didn't use kyubi chakra in this fight." but listen to this AGAIN... kyubi chakra has been mixing for quite some time now gradually enlarging naruto's own chakra capacity. not only that, naruto's (more like kyubi's) healing abilities let naruto fight way longer than he can and since he can fight longer, he has more time to analyze the opponent and his or her moves/skills/etc. and come up with a strategy to defeat them.

and then someone will say: "well, that's the same as saying sasuke is nothing without his sharingan." that's partially true, except when you take this into consideration: kyubi and its chakra makes an individual into an almost invincible entity while other 'special' abilities are not as great. it's completely unfair to compare naruto with anyone.

my whole point is that kyubi chakra is what makes naruto the ninja he is, not determination and heart. and determination and heart are not the main factors if one's body is unable to do certain things. i'd say it's about 70-30 in favor of kyubi over determinaion and heart since kyubi does things for naruto so that it'll survive (if naruto dies, kyubi dies too). i'm speaking in terms of naruto world, so do not apply it to real world.

[SofaKing]

Since you say that Kyubi's power has been used in every fight, then you don't really know what Naruto would
be like without it.

[Uchiha Barles]

Mut@t@, what you said just now is fair enough, most of it anyway. But you know what? that's not the point. One, this is about naruto's leadership abilities. Two, this is anime is about a lot of things, but fairness isn't one of them. Three, we don't really know what naruto would be like without the kyubi. Determination and hardwork certainly has something to do with naruto getting where he's going. He didn't use kyubi chakra to learn the forbidden kage bunshin no jutsu. Plus, he did it on his own. Furthurmore, I don't think that everyone would be able to make as good use of the kyubi as naruto does. In fact, I don't think most would.

And another thing, I remember reading a post you made that said certain things happened when naruto used the kyubi chakra (wiskers get darker, eyes changed, whatever.) None of those things happened against mizuki, kagari, of kiba. And the healing factor didn't seem to come in until the end of the fight, you know, when he's already won it. So it doesn't seem like he did access it.

[chambers]

yeah but i dont think you can deny that his heart makes him the TYPE of fighter and person he is. if we look at shikamaru for exmaple he would never have dont anything at all if he had the kyubi in him. while i certainly think its why he is as good as he is, i still think hed be decent without it (didnt jira or ebisu say it was hard for him because the kyubi chakra didnt mix well or correct wiht narutos own? thus making it more difficult to mold it).

[Rek]

Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps

Originally posted by: EpoC
I think everyone of them could beat a normal chunnin like mizuki. shouldn't that make them at chunnin lvl?

No, it shouldn't

yeah... I'm guessing mizuki was more of a stealth ninja, for info gathering, hence why naruto (tho he was strong and alot of him) was able to pwn him...

So, if a genin could say, sneak past him, or out stealth him, he should be able to be a chuunin.

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: chambers
ok, i think the screw ups in just the scene with the bell training far surpass the amount of 'saves' hes had.

and tbh i dont think that with that in mind you need to counter any other parts as that would be the overifing factor.

I cannot believe you're trying to using that as your support. It's almost complete irrelevant by the time the chuunin exam begins, and definately completely irrelevant by the time naruto faces neiji. You seem to be forgetting the ridiculous rate at which Naruto growing. I hope you're just joking with this...

[Hinata-chan]

whoever made the comment that the chuunin exam lasted 40+ episodes has an excellent point lol

ironically that it doubled the amount of time spent from graduation from the academy --> chuunin exam

makes you wonder how long this series will last

[Rek]

with anyone else, they would... but Chambers is serious...

[jing]

Naruto totally sucked and blanked out during the written chunnin exam. He didn't know how to gather information. GATHER THE WRONG INFO, his team will be wiped out.

[Uchiha Barles]

Fine, let me try this. Who do you think deserves to be chuunin? Why?

[Shin_Naruto]

it breaks down into 2 groups...

Group 1 thinks Naruto is Naruto, and he uses the Kyubi Chakra like a tool. Since nobody else has this tool it is comparable to bloodline abilities. If he didn't have a demon inside of him, he would be a 2nd rate ninja which means he 'cheats' to win.

Group 2 thinks Naruto is Naruto + Kyubi... there is no difference between the two. They are one in the same. If Naruto wins, he won because he was better.



I'd like to toss in that he probably could have turn out to be a good ninja w/o the Kyubi... if his dad really is the 4th. Weve seen that the kids take after their parents in skill. I'd wager its why Sakura and Ino suck (owning a flower shop... what kinda job is that =P)