Episode 82 Discussion *SPOILERS*

[LostAngel]

Well going by Sasukes thinking back of the time Itachi killed off the clan he looked about 8 or 9 to me. I am bad about telling how old kids are in anime years though.

I think Gai could possibly put up a better fight with Itachi. When he mentioned watching his fight that Asuma said only Gai could do that or whatever. Kakashi's mistake was thinking that Itachi's jetsu wouldn't work on him because of his Sharingon. As for Kakashi fighting Itachi Face to Face I think Gai would run around like a monkey dodging attacks getting in what he can. Now fighting face to face or running around... I think Gai would last longer.

When Itachi finished using his eyes on Kakashi you could see it wore him out by him breathing heavily and that face. So if Gai where to fight him then he could of definitely could of had a decent fight.

But lets not forget... Sasuke is going to have to kill Itachi.. same as it was destenied for Naruto fighting Gaara. With the comments that Sasuke has power that surpases Itachi.. I personally want to see Sasuke kick his ass. Oh I have a question. Kakashi said that Sharingon can't copy advance blood techinques. But if Sasuke was using sharingon on fighting or just watching Itachi fight would he be able to copy his jutsu since he is of the Uchiha clan? I would think he could.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: LostAngel
Kakashi's mistake was thinking that Itachi's jetsu wouldn't work on him because of his Sharingon.

good job pointing that out cuz that question should make us think. if kakashi, the genius, thought that his sharingan would be able to go against itachi's sharingan (which obviously failed horribly), why should we assume that gai's method should be effective against itachi's sharingan?

it's the same method but applied onto totally different scenarios. and besides, kakashi is really out-skilled in almost all ways when compared to itachi.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: LostAngel
Oh I have a question. Kakashi said that Sharingon can't copy advance blood techinques. But if Sasuke was using sharingon on fighting or just watching Itachi fight would he be able to copy his jutsu since he is of the Uchiha clan? I would think he could.

i'm assuming that you mean mangekyou sharingan... i'm not sure if he can copy it, but he can learn it obviously. but even if he is able to copy it, i doubt that sasuke's sharingan would even be able to copy it since it's not as nearly developed as itachi's.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: LostAngel
But if Sasuke was using sharingon on fighting or just watching Itachi fight would he be able to copy his jutsu since he is of the Uchiha clan? I would think he could.

that was actually brought up in another itachi discussion thread, i believe (actually i think it was kakashi though, not sasuke)

i would assume no....because just as other blood limits cant be copied, this one prolly couldnt either. its a genetic thing, and if his sharingan couldnt perform it before, then i doubt it would be able to perform it just by witnessing it. A baby can't walk just by watching adults walk until its body is trained for it, and im sure a sharingan user cant reach those levels of bloodlimit abilities without training his sharingan to at least acquire those 3 comma things.....

not to mention if that move takes alot of chakra out of itachi, imagine what it'd do to sasuke!

[Shin_Naruto]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

it's the same method but applied onto totally different scenarios. and besides, kakashi is really out-skilled in almost all ways when compared to itachi.

its not the same method
Kakashi thought his eye was immune to Itachi' Genjutsu.
Gai thinks his fighting style is a way to counter Itachi' obvious advantage.

One is a physical trait, the other is a fighting method. The only simularity between the two is that they are/were both theories. One was proven wrong... the other was not shown.

I think Konoha knows much about the Sharingan, since its been the home of the Sharingan for many years. Them understanding how to fight against it is very plausible. However a surgically implanted eye has no history and Kakashi just came to the wrong conclusion.

Thats my thought at least.




My opinion is he could copy the Mangekyou if his Sharingan was much more advanced, as of yet its only copied some of Lee' Taijutsu. The Mangekyou is just an evolved high level technique, unless its an evolution only found in certain Uchiha members... a bloodline limit of a bloodline if you will. Sakura hasnt brought out her 'bloodline limit of a bloodline limit' scroll yet. hehe

I do have a question... Kakashi can learn/copy Taijutsu, counter/copy Ninjutus, but can he do anything vs a Genjutsu attack that anyone else couldnt do?


-not going to be around to see the answers for a while... taking off to E3 in the morning and gone for a few days.-

[Mut]

excellent analysis on my response. you were correct about nothing. i was talking about applying gai's method to fight kakashi to itachi being illogical.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i'd assume he was an ANBU captain BEFORE killing his clan though

Seems very unlikely that a mass murder would be promoted to ANBU captain.
Otherwise, Oro could have been the fourth and so much conflict would have been avoided.

[Shin_Naruto]

Im sorry, but the english language doesnt bend to what you mean to say.
When you bring up Kakashi' 'method' to fight Itachi, then Gai's 'method' then say 'its the same Method' that conveys you are comparing Gai and Kakashi' method to eachother, not Gai's method to the different matchups.

What you should have said is: Gai's method vs Kakashi is the same he would use against the much tougher Itachi. Itachi is on a different lvl then Kakashi and therefor is not a good indication of any method that would work.





Why is it illogical? Please educate me. You have yet to provide one piece of evidence that supports your theory.

[Assassin]

the sharingan is supposed to be able to cancel/see thru genjutsu.....but im guessing, since itachi = pure ownage, kakashi's sharingan couldn't do it and was over powered.


ps: IM BBAAAAAAAAACCCCKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 111

DID U GUYS MISS ME?? (correct answer = yes we did, followed by hugs)

[Shin_Naruto]

Originally posted by: Assassin
the sharingan is supposed to be able to cancel/see thru genjutsu

ahh ya...
forgot that lesson

thanks! =)

[chambers]

the most logical thing to do would be to conclude that Gai's method WOULD work against itachi also, maybe not the the point where he could beat him but hes certainly the best suited to the task. think about it, if gai can beat out the advantage of kakashis eye, and the main advantage of itachi is that someone has to ACTAULLY LOOK at the eye in order to succumb to that technique, well Gai still counters it by not even looking at his face. so infact Gai's method will be MORE effective when figthing itachi, why you ask? heres why: it is logical to assume that kakashi DOES NOT rely on the sharingan as much as itachi in battle as it tires him out. Itachis focus on the sharingan MUST lead to some weaknes in other areas, no i know there will be some people who will say "you dont get to be the best ninja in the world if you cant defend against physical attacks!", well to be honest thats a valid point, but when you are fighting against someone who specializes in your weakness (and we know its his weakenss becasue its been shown (lee v sasuke, gai v kakashi) to be an effective couter to the technique) it becoms a whole diffrent kettle of fish, not to mention there is NO other person in the village who fight sht esame way as Gai (at least not as good otherwise he would be known to us) we have also never seen a ninja similar to Gai in any other country and the only one who compares is his student, so it snot like Itachi will have huge experince in figthing someone of gais strenght.

so as you can see its PERFECTLY logical, and mut@t@ instead of saying " your wrong about everything, and its not logical....PROVE IT. use reasonable method and examples to PROOVE it. saying well itachi is a lot strong than kakashi is utter BS because Gai counters the very thing that is stronger about him.

[Assertn]

the proof is the record held between gai and kakashi. Even though gai counters the very thing that is stronger about kakashi, they still are almost evenly matched

therefore anybody higher than kakashi's level would be too much for gai

[LostAngel]

I think your right chambers. I think Gai would stand a better chance. Now Itachi is fast as performing techinques... but he will have to be able to keep up with guy in complete movement. If he can't see Gai running around in speed that I expect to way surpass Lee... it will be hard to follow his movements. Like Sasuke fighting Lee.. he was able to copy his movements but couldn't keep up. Itachi is faster at performing techs Gai is faster in movement I would assume. I would think faster movement would have the advantage.

And if Gai voids all eye contact he stands a better chance than Kakashi.. Itachi said not to underestimate him so he knew that he was good and plus if he took Itachi then... Itachi was all worn out. Breathing heavily and crap for fighting with Kakashi. So more likely he wouldn't of been able to keep up with Gai. And with Asuma as back up since he said Gai was the only one who could fight Itachi he would take on Kisame I would guess. But I don't think Kisame could stand a chance against Gai.

I really wanted to see Gai take Itachi on though I want to see one good fight with Gai one on one with someone powerful. They should of at least let him and Kisame duke it out.

Oh yeah one thing I have learned from Naruto... people in lower ranks can still beat crap out higher ranks.

[chambers]

yes but AF you also have to consider that for perhaps a large part of his life Kakashi didnot have the sharingan so would likely be more focuses (read: better) at other parts of fighting. also from seeing kakashi fight we can see that he doesnt solely rely on the sharingan, whcih form what we have seen of itachi makes him different. the only key thing we need to remeber is that gai takes the sharingan and effectivly nullifies it, now if we look at itachi and say that his strongest wepaon is his sharingan and gai removes that form the equation, we have to think that gai now has the upper hand.

[Knives122]

Originally posted by: chambers
the most logical thing to do would be to conclude that Gai's method WOULD work against itachi also, maybe not the the point where he could beat him but hes certainly the best suited to the task. think about it, if gai can beat out the advantage of kakashis eye, and the main advantage of itachi is that someone has to ACTAULLY LOOK at the eye in order to succumb to that technique, well Gai still counters it by not even looking at his face. so infact Gai's method will be MORE effective when figthing itachi, why you ask? heres why: it is logical to assume that kakashi DOES NOT rely on the sharingan as much as itachi in battle as it tires him out. Itachis focus on the sharingan MUST lead to some weaknes in other areas, no i know there will be some people who will say "you dont get to be the best ninja in the world if you cant defend against physical attacks!", well to be honest thats a valid point, but when you are fighting against someone who specializes in your weakness (and we know its his weakenss becasue its been shown (lee v sasuke, gai v kakashi) to be an effective couter to the technique) it becoms a whole diffrent kettle of fish, not to mention there is NO other person in the village who fight sht esame way as Gai (at least not as good otherwise he would be known to us) we have also never seen a ninja similar to Gai in any other country and the only one who compares is his student, so it snot like Itachi will have huge experince in figthing someone of gais strenght.

so as you can see its PERFECTLY logical, and mut@t@ instead of saying " your wrong about everything, and its not logical....PROVE IT. use reasonable method and examples to PROOVE it. saying well itachi is a lot strong than kakashi is utter BS because Gai counters the very thing that is stronger about him.

You're right Chambers Gai's method would be the most effective against Itachi, b/c of his training with Kakashi(and the sharingan) but since Itachi is an "expert ninja" he would of fought against at least one person like that before, and he would of eventually seen through Gai's strategy, now you cant factor out the fact that Itachi was weakened from using the Mangekyou Sharingan on Kakashi(his eyes were twitching(means he was stressed out)) So might of done ok alright, but not that good against Itachi, b/c even though he has the sharingan and it seems like he invincible with them, that doesnt mean he doesnt have some other cards up his sleeve

[CyberPunk]

exactly, even without the sharingan, itachi is still a genius ninja. just like sasuke was top student in his class without even having the sharingan yet.

[Stægan]

the funniest thing in 82 is what jiraiya tells naruto in the wery end of the EP

Jiraiya: Okay, Naruto.....

Naruto: Yeah?

Jiraiya: You go back home alone, train, and go to sleep


man that was so funny but in the s-o it is totally different (its in the A\a )

[chambers]

at last a well thought out reply, but i think your wrong, it doesnt mean that he DOES have some trick up his sleeve, i mean look at lee, hard work genius who cant use any techniques other than ones that encahnce his physical status. neji seems the same. shikamaru is clearly physically weak and only specializes on his familys technique and his witts. Gaara is the same, physically weak. the only real exception to this seems to be naruto and the one 'lion comb' technique that sasuke uses. so while iam agreeing that aninja like itachi wont be totally defenceless i doubt he would be able to keep up with gai, i mean itachi aint invincible, thats more than likley why he works with a physical partner.

and while it IS stated many, many times that sasuke is the top rookie i doubt that in a exam style fight situation he would have beaten shika, kiba (the bug guy?) or even i-no. there is nothing special about sasuke he knows one technique the fire one thats it, and it seems to do little damage anyway.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: chambers
the only key thing we need to remeber is that gai takes the sharingan and effectivly nullifies it, now if we look at itachi and say that his strongest wepaon is his sharingan and gai removes that form the equation, we have to think that gai now has the upper hand.

no. gai doesn't effectively nullify anything. maybe kakashi's sharingan, but not itachi's. if gai's method totally nullifies kakashi's sharingan then there would be no point of him pointing out that they're eternal rivals. is gai someone who would brag about being better than a certain person if gai can beat them every time? NO. also, we haven't seen the method being used on itachi, only on kakashi's ghetto sharingan. stop bringing up the fact that gai's method works on kakashi's sharingan cuz that's not what we're applying gai's method to. the method only works to a certain extent and we all know that itachi's sharingan is far better than kakashi's.

also, i agree that gai is very fast, possibly faster than kakashi. sasuke made a comment about it when gai first appeared. fine, i believe that. but that's a comment made from a genin. but kurenai said herself that itachi's movements are way too fast for even her (a jounin) to keep up with.

and stop telling me i'm not supporting any of my counter arguments. i've done just as much as you have.

Originally posted by: LostAngel
I think your right chambers. I think Gai would stand a better chance. Now Itachi is fast as performing techinques... but he will have to be able to keep up with guy in complete movement. If he can't see Gai running around in speed that I expect to way surpass Lee... it will be hard to follow his movements. Like Sasuke fighting Lee.. he was able to copy his movements but couldn't keep up. Itachi is faster at performing techs Gai is faster in movement I would assume. I would think faster movement would have the advantage.

And if Gai voids all eye contact he stands a better chance than Kakashi.. Itachi said not to underestimate him so he knew that he was good and plus if he took Itachi then... Itachi was all worn out. Breathing heavily and crap for fighting with Kakashi. So more likely he wouldn't of been able to keep up with Gai. And with Asuma as back up since he said Gai was the only one who could fight Itachi he would take on Kisame I would guess. But I don't think Kisame could stand a chance against Gai.

I really wanted to see Gai take Itachi on though I want to see one good fight with Gai one on one with someone powerful. They should of at least let him and Kisame duke it out.

Oh yeah one thing I have learned from Naruto... people in lower ranks can still beat crap out higher ranks.

itachi is very fast a performing techniques, possibly fastest we've seen so far. but you guys do realize that after itachi performs the hand seals both him and the clone have to move around too, right? that's how it is done. it was explained when bunch of narutos jumped out of the lake and attacked kakashi. kakashi quickly did a replacement jutsu and hid in a tree. so far, itachi has proven that he's A LOT faster than we give him credit for. and ranks have nothing to do with someone beating up another.

Originally posted by: chambers
heres why: it is logical to assume that kakashi DOES NOT rely on the sharingan as much as itachi in battle as it tires him out.

what? did you not see that kakashi whipped out his sharingan as soon as zabuza appeared? kakashi is a great ninja but his sharingan makes him even deadlier.

...but when you are fighting against someone who specializes in your weakness (and we know its his weakenss becasue its been shown (lee v sasuke, gai v kakashi) to be an effective couter to the technique) it becoms a whole diffrent kettle of fish, not to mention there is NO other person in the village who fight sht esame way as Gai (at least not as good otherwise he would be known to us) we have also never seen a ninja similar to Gai in any other country and the only one who compares is his student, so it snot like Itachi will have huge experince in figthing someone of gais strenght.

STOP BRINGING UP OTHER FIGHTS THEY ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO ITACHI. using lee vs sasuke as an example is RETARDED. a lot of people have tried using this to support their argument but it does not work. if you don't understand that you can't use this to support your response, then you are hopeless cuz that just explains that your analysis skills are below mediocre.

[LostAngel]

nah my point is that at the moment if there was a fight right then since Itachi was showing how much (after using that torture jutsu I forgot the name of it) it took out of him. I mean that face and the huffying puffing... I think Gai could of had a better chance then Kakashi. On normal terms.. I don't think he would really stand a chance.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: LostAngel
nah my point is that at the moment if there was a fight right then since Itachi was showing how much (after using that torture jutsu I forgot the name of it) it took out of him. I mean that face and the huffying puffing... I think Gai could of had a better chance then Kakashi. On normal terms.. I don't think he would really stand a chance.

wait wait wait... so what you're saying was that gai could've had a better chance than kakashi AFTER itachi used mangekyou sharingan? man, wtf? that's not fair at all. how about we turn it around and say that, itachi has 100% chance of beating gai after he opened up 7 gates.

but if that's not what you were saying then nevermind D: