Episode 82 Discussion *SPOILERS*

[Aeon]

Probably comes from the fact that Oro explicitly stated that Itachi was stronger than he was, and that Oro is supposed to be the strongest of the legendary three.

When was it ever stated that Oro is the strongest of the Sennin? For all we know the Sennin can be the complete opposite of team 7 with Tsunade being the strongest and Oro being the weakest. Plus Frog Summon's>Snake Summon's.

[SK]

i figured tsunade was the strongest but who knows, there probably isnt much difference in strength between oro, jiraiya, and tsunade, and if itachi is stronger than oro then he is probably stronger than the other sennin.

[photonic]

We don't know that Oro is the strongest of the three. Nowhere in the anime has it ever said that. You might be able to argue that he's the strongest since the 3rd wanted to make him Hokage, but that still wouldn't provide conclusive evidence. So far all we've seen of Jiraiya is his frog instantly kick the 3 headed snake's ass. So, in a sense at this point, it seems that Jiraiya is stronger than Oro considering that Oro is the snake sannin. Also, the two elders of Konoha tried to make Jiraiya hokage and, when he suggested Tsunade, they didn't seem too excited about the idea. While on the topic of the two elders, is it possible/likely that they were the other two people who trained with sandaime under the 1st and 2nd hokages?

I have a question though. Jiraiya said that within Akatsuki they move in groups of two. Does that mean that Kabuto was Orochimaru's partner within Akatsuki? If so, I think that would put Kabuto significantly ahead of Kakashi in terms of strength. Has anybody ever noticed a ring on Kabuto's finger?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Weshy
Just wondering how you can assume that Itachi is more powerful than Ero-Sennin, when Ero-Sennin is yet to show what he's made of? Plus, don't know why everyone thinks you must have a true Sharingan bloodline to beat sharingan, I think it was pretty clear at the end there that by simple not looking at their eyes you can avoid much of the sharingan's ultiamte powers.

I believe the whole "must be sharingan to overcome me" statement is strictly made in reference to the 72 Hour's of pain move...I think it meant that only a true sharingan bloodline limit can see through the move and thus not have to lose focus of the eyes.

My 2 cents.

Weshy.

NOTE: when i say stronger, i mean in stronger in overall skills, abilities, and talent, not just pure strength.

we don't know if itachi is stronger than ero-sennin, but if orochimaru fears itachi then we can assume that jiraiya should have trouble fighting against him. also, itachi said that only a true sharingan user can defeat him. that line should be a hint to who is capable of defeating a master sharingan user.

i'll tell you why everyone thinks that you must have a full blooded uchiha to beat sharingan. when gai said that you can counter/avoid sharingan user by only looking at their feet he is 100% correct. but he is only 100% correct when that person is fighting kakashi only. people have to realize that there is a huge difference between kakashi's and itachi's abilities to use the sharingan. itachi can use the sharingan at full potential while kakashi can only use it to the extent which his body allows. using gai's method to say that you don't need to be a true sharingan user doesn't work cuz kakashi's and itachi's fighting abilities and sharingan skills are at totally different levels.

besides, think about this. gai has trained all of his life fighting kakashi who cannot use the sharingan at maximum. the fighting skills are only trained up to perform against only a intermediate sharingan user. so when gai comes across someone who is a master of sharingan (itachi), he can't match its full power.

and yes, you are correct about only a true uchiha can counter the mangekyou sharingan (tsukiyomi is the name of the genjutsu), but in all aspects of seeing, reading, and copying jutsus, itachi's is far superior to kakashi's (this was proved when kakashi could barely follow with itachi's attacks while itachi had no trouble).

[hoob]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


we don't know if itachi is stronger than ero-sennin, but if orochimaru fears itachi then we can assume that jiraiya should have trouble fighting against him. also, itachi said that only a true sharingan user can defeat him. that line should be a hint to who is capable of defeating a master sharingan user.

Well, Oro fears Itachi much more because Oro's main line of offense is Jutsus, which the Sharingan can easily read and copy. So far, all we've seen Jiraiya do, really, is Summon. So, we'll just have to guess that Itachi is stronger than Oro and possibly Jiraiya, until we see Jiraiya in action.

Another thing is, when Itachi said only a true Sharingan user can defeat him, couldn't that be a bit of arrogance speaking, too? I mean, he is superior to many nins, but that could easily lead to him believing he's unstoppable. He doesn't give many people a second chance to come at him, and he kills them before then, so it's not like he can't be stopped. It's just no one has been able to figure out how to stop him yet. It's true, he's pretty harcore, but I gotta think that there's someone who isn't Sasuke that could defeat him.

You also know that Gai doesn't just train to match someone's power, but he trains four, maybe five, times harder to become better than that person. So, we really don't know. All I know is, Gai is the best!

[Mut]

Originally posted by: hoob
It's true, he's pretty harcore, but I gotta think that there's someone who isn't Sasuke that could defeat him.

it is obviously possible that someone else is capable of beating itachi, but we're never going to see it happen. if itachi were to get defeated by someone, it would deface the significane of "there is a man only i can beat" said by sasuke.

[hoob]

Yeah, I know Sasuke is destined to defeat Itachi one day. But you know, a part of me kinda hopes that he doesn't, as well. Something along the lines of Sasuke being incredibly rocked by Itachi and dying. Setting up someone to avenge the death of Sasuke. That would be awesome. But, it's most likely never going to happen. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[Assertn]

sarutobi clearly acknowledged orochimaru as the most talented of his 3 pupils....why else would he choose him to be the next hokage?

[hoob]

I don't think that means he's the strongest or the best suited. I think maybe Sarutobi was a little biased in this case, favoring Orochimaru a little more than the others. And as you know, we've only seen a little bit of the past, so there's much more to it than that. We've seen Orochimaru show his strength, we've only seen Jiraiya show a little bit. We have yet to see Tsunade in the anime, so we'll see, I guess.

[Aeon]

I have a question though. Jiraiya said that within Akatsuki they move in groups of two. Does that mean that Kabuto was Orochimaru's partner within Akatsuki? If so, I think that would put Kabuto significantly ahead of Kakashi in terms of strength. Has anybody ever noticed a ring on Kabuto's finger?

I don't think Kabuto can be in the Akatsuki since he's not a S rank criminal and that seem's to be the standard you need to get in. Plus Oro stated last ep that he left the group because Itachi was stronger then him. So I guess he's a runaway ninja from them also.

[Assertn]

does sarutobi seem like the kinda guy who'd be biased?
he didnt want to see the evil in oro's eyes, because he knew that a ninja as talented as he is only comes around once in a decade or so (i believe thats pretty close to what he actually says himself).....and WHO was the one who failed the survival training and was tied to a log? JIRAIYA [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[hoob]

Exactly, he didn't want to see the evil in Oro's eyes, he ignored it, hoping that Oro wouldn't be evil. Isn't that bias?
But Naruto was tied up during training too, remember? And he ended up kicked Gaara's ass when Sasuke could barely make a dent, too. So, that has little bearing on someone's ability, rather it has a bearing on their mentality. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I was cracking up when I saw Jiraiya tied up though. hehe

[Gods_Son]

Jiraiya and Orochimaru are probably at about the same level. Sarutobi wasn't really baised, but more naive for believing the best in Orochimaru. The members who formed Akatsuki were S-rank criminals, but that doesn't mean it's a requirement. Kabuto could probably get in if they felt he could help them achieve their goal.

[Assertn]

gaara and naruto are different stories....cause they have their powers from demons

and with your logic hoob, yes.....sarutobi is baised towards orochimaru because of his talent

[hoob]

Yeah, I can't really think of any counterargument to the Jiraiya thing, yet...but I will! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

This place is cool, though. Much better than the other anime boards I've seen. Man, some of those places are just cesspools of fanboys and fangirls who won't listen to any reason. This place is much more civilized. Thank you, gotwoot! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[chambers]

and where or when was that stated?

i reckon gai would OWN itachi, also itachi is just one person, its reasonable to assume that while he is performing that technique that he is open to attacks (or at least when he performs it on multiple tagets) . in naruto 1 second is all you need to kill someone.

and anyway isnt nejis bloodline supposed to be better? i think that all in all bar naruto neji will be a pretty powerfull ninja as he learned how to perform his techniques with no trianing from somone else wiht the sam eability (if you ocunt the short stint where his dad was alive).

[TwisT]

Originally posted by: Weshy

Originally posted by: Luchio

Leaf village is lucky that Itachi doesn't want to start a war, because he is WAY too powerful for any villager, even Ero-Sennin, Kakashi and ANBU. The only one that could beat him is Sasuke, and he's not ready yet.

Just wondering how you can assume that Itachi is more powerful than Ero-Sennin, when Ero-Sennin is yet to show what he's made of? Plus, don't know why everyone thinks you must have a true Sharingan bloodline to beat sharingan, I think it was pretty clear at the end there that by simple not looking at their eyes you can avoid much of the sharingan's ultiamte powers.

I believe the whole "must be sharingan to overcome me" statement is strictly made in reference to the 72 Hour's of pain move...I think it meant that only a true sharingan bloodline limit can see through the move and thus not have to lose focus of the eyes.

My 2 cents.

Weshy.

Well Itachi is stronger then Oro andOro was thestrongest of him, Jiraiya and Tsunade.. He was also that "one in a lifetime" ninja or something like that (the 3rd said something like that).. And so we can asume that Oro hade much more potential then Jiraiya to so that he has progressed more over time.. Also he has med his own forbidden jutsu's that involve human sacrifice.. Something that probably is very powerful..

And yes Kakashi was not bourne with his Sharingan and that is why it did not help to look with his Sharingan and Itachi meant that he was not a Utchia and therefor it did not help.. Only a person bourne with a Sharingan can look at him.. And that is probably only if the person is strong enough.. I mean if i drive a sword in Itachis heart will he not die because im not a Utchia(yeah yeah i know it's not spelledlike that)?? Of couse he will die..

Well that is MY 2 cents..

[LegendarySenninJiraiya]

Originally posted by: LostAngel
Hmmm I think Gai could maybe put up a better fight if he had fast speed than Lee with out the weights. If Itachi couldnt see him then he couldnt copy him?? But I am probably wrong. All he would have to do is catch him once put him in a jutsu like he did Kakashi and it would be over. I think Gai could put up a better fight against Itachi though. I wanted to see them duke it out. I know Gai would of lost but it would of been awesome. They don't show enough of him fighting.

That jutsu he did was awesome! I wonder since Kyuubis chakra is merging with Naruto... won't they become like 1 adventually?? If that ever happens... wouldn't the seal be useless?? Because I remember Orchi saying that they where already starting to merge together. Or if there chakra merges... will Kyuubi still be there just without his own chakra then forever depend on Naruto until he dies? Stupid questions but cant help but wonder about them.

I think its so awesome that Jiriaya is going to watch over Naruto.. those 2 are so perfect together.

ok...this whole theory is screwed lol, first off, kakashi/gai are WAY faster than rock lee, we've never even seen them at full speed/power much less with the lotus gates unlocked, also add the fact that sharingan makes u able to see things that are moving too fast for the naked eye to see and that Itachi is faster than both of them, Gai hasnt a chance in the world, as experienced as he is, its no match, itachi has orochimaru afraid if u remember correctly, and gai/kakashi < orochimaru, so to me that says itachi >>>> kakashi/gai, also Gai didnt do a number on fishface, i remember correctly that fishface got up and shrugged it off, for itachi to choose kisame as his partner, he must be damned strong, i doubt that gai or kakashi can mess with either of them without opening the lotus gates or sacrificing themselves

[Assertn]

and itachi can perform jutsus faster than anybody could see it....so if itachi can perform a nin or genjutsu as fast as gai can move, then im sure he could do something to totally screw gai up, even though lately it seems like physical speed can beat pretty much everything else, i doubt that in the naruto world as a whole it makes everything else inferior

[LegendarySenninJiraiya]

Originally posted by: z0diac

Anyway im starting to wonder if all mist ninja's have big freaking swords with them and every mist ninja kid when he turns 10 or something picks one O_O

i remember seeing int he anime somewhere in the explanation of zabuza that he is a member of the 7 Mist swordsmen or something like that, all jounin+ level ninjas that wield large swords, and kisame is also in that group i think and that would probably be why he wanted to kick kakashi's ass so badly

i disagree about Oro being stronger than Jiraiya and the third sennin tho (a mod should edit the name from his post) and you'll have to wait a while to see why i say this but later on we'll learn more about the 3 and settle these thoughts