Sasuke's going to resurrect his clan

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

[i]

okay.. i read the bottom half of your response and i dont think you understand that genes are already set as either recessive or dominant. In real life, okay this is real life now: a brown eye pigment gene is dominant over nearly every other eye pigment gene. And a blue eye would be recessive. So it would be:
B = brown eye dominant gene
b= blue eye recessive gene
So a guy with brown eyes can either be homogenous for brown eyes (BB) or heterogenous (Bb) to have the brown eye gene dominate over the blue eye gene. And a girl with blue eyes can only be homogenous for blue eyes (bb) or else the dominant gene (B) will dominate over the blue gene. And that is how dominant over recessive genes work.

Go slow pal, that's too much for some.
But I have a question. Does gayness run in the family?
I will be back eventually with some evidence and will ask your knowledgeable opinion about that...

[Augury]

I'm no biology major (far from it actually), but from what I learned in jr. high my understanding of the dominant/recessive genes is the same as Mut@t@ / dazzz and originalkrn. I've never heard of the definitions that hiten uses before for dominant and recessive but then I haven't studied biology in seven years...

EDIT:
By the way, I say that Sasuke either gets with Sakura eventually or DIES AT THE HANDS OF ITACHI

die Sasuke diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie...

Naw, he'll probably get done in by something long before anything happens between him and resurrection / Itachi. Something like getting screwed by a 3rd party (read: orochimaru)

[Kumiriko]

The blond Gean is being breed out. there are vary few Naturally blond people in this world. and with all the people dyeing there hair. the true blonds geans are being eleminated

[Stoopider]

How is it that people dye-ing their hair breed blond hair out? It's nothing to do with genes. It's not that people are taking gene manipulation's to colour their hair. Heheh.

[hiten mitsurugi]

[quote]
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i don't understand why you're including 'Y' into this when all it is is x and X.
q]

Y is the sex-link characteristics. You wouldn't be a male otherwise.

lmao okay... doode.. youre wrong. Here we go. Just because the Sharingan is shown OVER not having the sharingan does not mean its dominant.

Yes it does. If you're an uchiha, you are a carrier for the sharingan allele. If you have the sharingan, then the sharingan allele is dominant. If you don't have the sharingan then the sharingan allele is recessive. That's how it works. You can't have sharingan with a recessive allele. If it is recessive, it isn't going to show.

Lastly, i know that even if its a dominant trait, it can still be more rare than the recessive ... just like i explained in my previous post about the dimples, but if nothing happened to the population, then there would always be a constant proportion of dominant over recessive in a 3:1 ratio (which is proven by the Hardy-Weinburg law - go look it up)

Read my second post. I clearly stated that the sharingan is a recessive trait, because the majority of uchiha population doesn't have it. But, you have to differentiate between the populus and an individual. This is where you and Dazzz are confused. Sasuke's Sharingan allele is dominant, obviously because he has it. It isn't recessive. Don't confuse the individuals traits with the populus traits.

So a guy with brown eyes can either be homogenous for brown eyes (BB) or heterogenous (Bb) to have the brown eye gene dominate over the blue eye gene. And a girl with blue eyes can only be homogenous for blue eyes (bb) or else the dominant gene (B) will dominate over the blue gene. And that is how dominant over recessive genes work.

I'm glad that you, at least, understand this part of it. So if you understand this then you should see why I stated that they have a 25% chance of having a baby with sharingan. LOL... use a putted square and some statistics and you'll see why.

[Mut]

i don't want to talk about this anymore... my brain hurts.

[broshiggie]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi

Read my second post. I clearly stated that the sharingan is a recessive trait, because the majority of uchiha population doesn't have it. But, you have to differentiate between the populus and an individual. This is where you and Dazzz are confused. Sasuke's Sharingan allele is dominant, obviously because he has it. It isn't recessive. Don't confuse the individuals traits with the populus traits.

...

I'm glad that you, at least, understand this part of it. So if you understand this then you should see why I stated that they have a 25% chance of having a baby with sharingan. LOL... use a putted square and some statistics and you'll see why.

hiten, i think you are misunderstanding dominant and recessive. You are saying that dominance is the trait that is shown physically (at least thats what im getting???).

So lets say that B = brown eye, b = blue eye.

According to your definition of dominance, Bb is brown eye dominant, bB is brown eye dominant, BB is brown eye dominant, and bb is blue eye dominant?

bb does NOT mean blue eye dominant, it means that the blue eye trait will show. By DEFINITION, B is a DOMINANT trait, By DEFINITION b is a RECESSIVE trait.

Now people are saying that the sharingang is a recessive trait (which i have an argument against, ill explain in a sec), and that only those in the Uchiha family carry this gene. So for any uchiha child to have the sharingan, both of their parents must carry this gene. They dont neccesarily have to PHYSICALLY show the trait, because they can both be carriers (e.g. have a genotype of Ss).

For some reason, i think i heard that the sharignan is more powerful in other Uchihas than others? Because of this idea, i am thinking that the sharingan is not a recessive trait, but a co-dominant traits. It could be that the sharingan gene in general is extremely rare, so the general population has 0 sharingnan genes, and the Uchiha family has like .001% sharingan. Still extremely small (which would explain the rarity), but a number which could give rise to sharingan children. It would explain the differing power levels, and could possibly explain kakashis eye (kakashi is a bastard child of an uchiha marriage, and his sharingan gene was weak).

Of course the most accepted theory regarding kakakshis eye is that he stole it, so if that theory is true than that hurts my codominance argument. Overall im more inclined to believe the recessive idea, but i dont believe we can say for 100% sure that it is recessive (unless it is specifically stated as such, which it may very well be lol).

I might be wrong, but i think its called a punnet square? Anyways, assuming that Sasuke is ss, and his mate is SS (because only the uchiha family are carriers for the gene, the general population is dominant for normal eyes), there is absolutely NO WAY that any of their children will have the gene (assuming we use the recessive theory).

Here is the punnet/putted square:

__s__s
---------|
S|Ss|Ss|
-|-------|
S|Ss|Ss|
----------

Sasuke on top, chick on the side. All of their children will be carriers. None will display the trait. If you inbred the kids, the f2 generation would have a 25% chance of having children.

Im not saying u dont know ur bio, but i just think that you have terms confused [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

EDIT: OMG I AER TEH NUMBAR 1 SEPLLAR!!11 fixed spelling errors...

[hiten mitsurugi]

hiten, i think you are misunderstanding dominant and recessive. You are saying that dominance is the trait that is shown physically (at least thats what im getting???).

So lets say that B = brown eye, b = blue eye. According to your definition of dominance, Bb is brown eye dominant, bB is brown eye dominant, BB is brown eye dominant, and bb is blue eye dominant?
bb does NOT mean blue eye dominant, it means that the blue eye trait will show. By DEFINITION, B is a DOMINANT trait, By DEFINITION b is a RECESSIVE trait.

Here's the definition. (Not just my definition)
dominant - Genetics. Of, relating to, or being an allele that produces the same phenotypic effect whether inherited with a homozygous or heterozygous allele. Genetics. A dominant allele or trait.

Do you see the word "phenotypic?" (Phenotype)
definition of phenotypic, the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment

I am not misunderstanding anything. dominance is the trait that is shown/expressed (phenotype, physical or biochemical characteristics ) over another allele.

This is such a simple concept. I'm giving up on you guys after this

Your square is incorrect. Their immediate (female) offspring 25% will have the possibility of acquiring sharingan.

[InnerSakuraChan]

If you think about it, the Sharingan can't be a recessive trait. Because that would mean that the Entire Uchiha clan is incredibly inbread, and all of the Uchihas would have extra limbs or something. They would be freaks, albeit freaks with really cool eyes.

So, maybe the Sharingan gene shows up in the regular people from time to time, but never manifests itself because it is a recessive gene. If thats true, then Uchihas can marry outside the clan, but only to those who have a recessive Uchiha gene, to prevent inbreeding. The gene must be somewhere in the regular population, because otherwise the Uchiha clan could of never come into existence.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

most likely it will be sakura, but as mut@t@ said only a select few in the uchiha clan are born with the sharingan, but if it was to happen ima have to go with sakura

[broshiggie]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
Do you see the word "phenotypic?" (Phenotype)
definition of phenotypic, the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment

I am not misunderstanding anything. dominance is the trait that is shown/expressed (phenotype, physical or biochemical characteristics ) over another allele.

This is such a simple concept. I'm giving up on you guys after this

Your square is incorrect. Their immediate (female) offspring 25% will have the possibility of acquiring sharingan.

Ok reareading your first post i think i know what the issue is, you are thinking that it is a sex linked trait (which would explain using x's and y's).

If that is the case, then yes, you have been correct this whole time, but you NEVER mentioned once that you believed it was sex linked.

My punnet square does not use sex linked traits, so it is not wrong (no x's and y's) going by purely dominant/recessive interactions. And assuming that the allele for the sharingan is a recessive allele on the x chromosome, there still would be no chance of any f1 offspring having the trait.

Basic Biology

Dominant - This is an allele that is always expressed if present. Example: Smooth peas are dominant over wrinkled peas. If either of the two genes in a pea plant that codes for pea shape is smooth, then the peas produced by the plant will be smooth.

Genotype - This is the genetic code of the organism. Dominant and recessive alleles that code for the same trait are given the same letter. The dominant allele is always capatilized. Example: S = smooth peas, s = wrinkled peas. Using the same example, a pea plant can have one of three genotypes for pea shape. SS, Ss, ss

In genetics the term DOMINANT usually refers to alleles, not to which phenotype is expressed. You even said it quoted it in your definition, it is a dominant allele or trait. Yes, if we have two reccessive alleles, the recessive trait will SHOW DOMINANCE and it will be of the recessive phenotype. But i am sure that you understand that does not change the fact that the recessive alleles are still recessive alleles (and not suddenly mutate and become dominant alleles). Dominant and recessive genes are talked about in terms of genotype, as can be seen on the website i provided.

If the person who wrote your definition wanted to claim dominance was related to phenotype, they would have said phenotype instead of phenotypic effect. So your argument based on the assumption phenotypic effect = phenotype cannot be supported and thus is ignored.

Your argument (about passing the sex-linked trait) was correct, but you never made it clear you thought it was a sex linked trait. The argument of everyone else was correct as well because they assumed it wasnt sex linked. Another area of misunderstanding was your use of dominance to describe phenotype (which is not incorrect),but dominance is generally used to describe alleles (in genotypes). So everyone understands everything and all is well.

HOPEFULLY THIS CLEARS UP MATTERS SO PPL WONT BE FAILING TEH SUPAR HARD AP BIO EXAMS THSI WEEK!!!11

KTHXBYE[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

[hiten mitsurugi]

OMG...God be with you people on test day. If you read the website then you would understand that phenotype is simply the characteristics expressed by the allele (genotype). Genotype and phenotype go hand in hand. Where do you think the term phenotypic is derived from? LOL...Look up phenotypic and phenotype and tell me there's a difference.

I hope you guys aren't planning to work in the medical field. Either you guys are just plain bad students or your instructors aren't explaining things properly.

Believe what you will. I aced Anatomy Physiology and Microbiology years ago. It's not hard it's just freaking memorization. (except for labs)

[originalkrn]

**READ THIS ENTIRE THING AND NOT JUST THE TOPIC SENTENCE**

yeah broshiggie.. you got it. Hiten... just because a certain trait shows does not mean its dominant. IT IS NOT THE PHENOTYPE THAT DETERMINES DOMINANCE, BUT IT IS THE GENOTYPE. So now what youre saying is this: A guy has blue eyes and, by your ideas, youre saying that the blue gene is dominant. However, we know that blue eyes is not a dominant trait. So, how can that guy have blue eyes if it is not a dominant trait? how is he SHOWING blue eyes if it isnt dominant? Cuz he has TWO RECESSIVE blue eye genes and no other gene is there to dominate, or be dominant, over it. Youre just looking up definitions, but genetics is a concept. It cant be simply explained by a definition, but it must be understood. I tried to explain it to you as clearly as possible, and youre still oblivious. So im not gonna try anymore if you dont get it this time. Sex-linkage is a different story and even if it is sex linked, there is still no chance of Sharingan to appear IF the sharingan is recessive. (ill explain this later, you can just pm me if you want a lesson).

And codominance would work..., but even if its codominant, there would only be 3 types: having pure sharingan (x1x1) , having medium amounts (x1x2), or having no sharingan at all (x2x2). However, many different intensities of Sharingan ability would work only if there were multiple alleles that it lied on (for example: the intensity of the color of human skin are on different alleles, from lightest pigment allele to darkest pigment allele).
x1=sharingan ability
x2=no sharingan ability
there is no dominance because both genes are unable to dominate over the other and there is a codominance.

[Mut]

ok. so... i won. alright, that's all i wanted to know. as long as we got that clear.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: broshiggie
Ok reareading your first post i think i know what the issue is, you are thinking that it is a sex linked trait (which would explain using x's and y's).

If that is the case, then yes, you have been correct this whole time, but you NEVER mentioned once that you believed it was sex linked.

My punnet square does not use sex linked traits, so it is not wrong (no x's and y's) going by purely dominant/recessive interactions. And assuming that the allele for the sharingan is a recessive allele on the x chromosome, there still would be no chance of any f1 offspring having the trait.

Basic Biology

Dominant - This is an allele that is always expressed if present. Example: Smooth peas are dominant over wrinkled peas. If either of the two genes in a pea plant that codes for pea shape is smooth, then the peas produced by the plant will be smooth.

Genotype - This is the genetic code of the organism. Dominant and recessive alleles that code for the same trait are given the same letter. The dominant allele is always capatilized. Example: S = smooth peas, s = wrinkled peas. Using the same example, a pea plant can have one of three genotypes for pea shape. SS, Ss, ss

In genetics the term DOMINANT usually refers to alleles, not to which phenotype is expressed. You even said it quoted it in your definition, it is a dominant allele or trait. Yes, if we have two reccessive alleles, the recessive trait will SHOW DOMINANCE and it will be of the recessive phenotype. But i am sure that you understand that does not change the fact that the recessive alleles are still recessive alleles (and not suddenly mutate and become dominant alleles). Dominant and recessive genes are talked about in terms of genotype, as can be seen on the website i provided.

HOPEFULLY THIS CLEARS UP MATTERS SO PPL WONT BE FAILING TEH SUPAR HARD AP BIO EXAMS THSI WEEK!!!11

KTHXBYE[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

In my first post I stated that the Sharingan allele is recessive. I was merely pointing out that it was dominant in Sasuke. I also stated that it was a sex linked trait, thus the Y's.

NEWAYs, I'm just glad that broshiggie understands. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Like I stated earlier, I remembered this from the scarring (AP and Microbiology) a couple of years ago. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Yeah, you're right it's called punnet square.

Pointer for originalkrm, phenotype corresponds to its dominant genotype. That's why I said that they go hand in hand, but you didn't understand that.

I know that the genotype determins dominance. I was trying to get you to understand that. Yes, the sharingan allele is recessive, but in Sasuke it is dominant, because his sharingan genotype (alleles) are dominant. Thus the phenotype shows, which is sharingan, the red eyes with comma like pupils. Whichever genotype is dominant the corresponding phenotype shows. I didn't look up any of this crap. I just remembered it.

[Stoopider]

I'm going to try and remembr all this by heart.

If my bio test quizez on this. I'll use the Sharingan from Naruto as an example. I bet my teacher will be so impressed to give me a 'A'.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I doubt Kishimoto put any genetics research behind the logic of bloodlines [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[originalkrn]

okay.. if you know that the sharingan is recessive then how are you possibly thinking that there is a 25% chance of a baby? If the gene is recessive, then Sasuke has to have ss (non-sex linked) , or sY (sex-linked) because otherwise the dominant gene (having no sharingan) will dominate over the recessive sharingan gene. (And yes, when you are ss, the s is considered dominant only because it is dominant compared to the other gene, but when compared to the dominant gene (having no sharingan), it is recessive) And he has to have kids with a non-uchiha girl (cuz the clan was wiped out) and since having no sharingan is dominant and she has no sharingan gene at all, she has to be SS ( first S coming from having no sharingan and she cant be a carrier cuz she has no uchiha blood ). So when they have kids, it can only be: Ss, Ss, Ss, Ss -having NO sharingan. And when its sex linked it can still only be : SY x 2(no sharingan male), Ss x 2(no sharingan female). So you got the definitions down, but whenever you put it into actual genotypes, it wont work.

[kappamaki]

Oh my...

I never ever post because I'm so busy with school, but as a pre-med student this discussion is really irritating me. I'm not even going to bother explaining genetics with you guys, though a think a few of you have done a pretty good job of explaining the basics (others, though, are somewhat misguided).

I just wanted to point out a fallacy of one of your arguments. We don't know if the sharingan is a recessive trait. Just because it shows up in a minority of the Uchiha family doesn't make it reccessive. As an example: in my extended family, only a few people have brown eyes. The majority has blue eyes. Does that make brown eyes a recessive trait? No. It just means that, in this case, the recessive trait has proliferated itself enough to be found in the majority. This actually happens in a lot of families.

Similarly, in the Uchiha clan, only a few people have the sharingan. Does that make the sharingan a recessive trait? Not necessarily, although it is more likely. So you can't assume the sharingan is recessive or dominant.

Also, genes are actually a lot more complicated than just dominant or recessive, and it is scientifically possible for two people bearing two recessive genes each to have a child that expresses the dominant trait, and vice versa. I'm not even going to began to get into this, though, since it would just take way too long.

Also, just out of my own personal curiousity, does any one know where in the manga does it say that only a few Uchihas have the sharingan? I must have missed it and would like to read it over, in case I also missed anything else.

[Gods_Son]

Leave the genetics discussions for school, like Memnoch said, I doubt Kishimoto was thinking about it so in depth. It's an anime, not a biology lab.