Eps 78 & 79

[Rek]

Originally posted by: kawarimi

Fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. Didn't Kakashi say that to Sakura at the stadium? (Can't remember but probably not because nobody else mentioned it.) Naruto can use high level techniques, and has enough chakra control to walk on water. He even copied Sasuke's (who copied Lee) taijutsu in the preliminaries. His strategies are smart too (examples mentioned before in this thread). Naruto's good all round, deserving to be a chuunin (not Jounin).

Nope... not even fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. Stopping Sasuke from fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. For a Genin to be running from a bunch of Jounin, trying to fight the TRUMP CARD Of A FUCKING NINJA CLAN would most definately be a special mission.

Now about Naruto using Gamabunta in a fight.... there are certain people da great frog boss won't fight, ie: anyone of konoha most likely, so say, if Naruto were to spar with Ero-sennin, and lost his head abit, and were to say, summon the Frog Boss correctly, there would just be a giant frog watching the match... nothing more.

So, don't bank of Naruto's usage of the frog thing, k (PS- he summoned him purty quick while in that there desert coffin... I'd reckon that there was some o the fast hands in the west...er east)

[Gaz]

If I was a Green belt in Karate and spared , and beat, a black belt , that would show that I was better than a black belt, HOWEVER , I am still a green belt because I havnt taken the relevant exams to prove myself as a higher grade than a green belt.

Its the way of the world I am afraid, I am not 'stupid', I have a strong understanding of why this is the case and a number of arguements agaisnt what you are 'stupidly' stating.

With reguards to the actual fight between Gaara and Naruto, without being able to summon Gamabunta, Naruto would have been mashed to pieces, but he did, and won.

Going by the Anime no-one can say either way what chakra was used to summon the frog king because the summoning is not shown in anyway.

However, going by what has been shown before, Naruto can only summing a little a frog without using the red chakra.

I mean I see two arguements here that I dont really know/care for (other than the fact he summoned the frog).

Naruto's Blue Chakra:
He used his blue chakra because he got true strength for fighting to save those that he loves.

Naruto's Red Chakra:
He used his red chakra because he was just about to die so called upon Kyubi to save his own skin.

[freezel-san]

There is absolutely zero chance that Naruto summoned Gamabunta at ANY point without Kyubi's chakra. Zero. There are no arguments to consider in favor of the idea. The series has made it very clear that Naruto does not have nearly enough chakra on his own to accomplish such a thing.

[Gaz]

Hnmm did you actually read what I stated:

However, going by what has been shown before, Naruto can only summing a little a frog without using the red chakra.

and

I mean I see two arguements here

As in, I understand what people are arguing their point about however as I stated before there is no evidence to support what chakra he used.

[Enigmatic_Paragon]

Im going to regret wasting time here tomorrow but.......

Lets get some things straightened - some of the arguments used here were so outrageous it became irresitable to answer them.

1) Naruto CANNOT have summoned the frog boss with his own chakra - it is stated quite clearly by Jiriaya when he is teaching Naruto the summoning technique, that he doesnt have enough chakra. All these notions about him summoning the frog boss because he has attained the true meaning of strength are in a word - silly. The theme of the true strength is reccurrent throughout many anime and stories and is most certainly does not involve suddenly becoming wildly powerful when you are protecting someone.
As for arguments involving seeing red chakra when Naruto uses the Kyubi's chakra, we can put that down as oversights in the animation teams efforts. Lets face it, theyre there to produce an enjoyable story, not one that is correct to every last detail.

2) This series is must definately not called naruto because Naruto is/may be the most powerful ninja of all time or someshuch. If you paid attention to the overall characters in the team, you'd notice something very obvious. The team follows a very traditional structure, with strengths and weaknesses. Take a look at a variation of the traditional view of a person - Mind, body, heart/soul. In Naruto, we can see quite clearly 3 aspects in each character - Mind, Body - as specified in the chunnin exam - and heart, which in this case is largely associated with "true strength". To date (although the characters have begun to develop) Sakura is weak in the body, but strong in mind. Naruto is not terribly intelligent, but is seen to have a good heart. Saskue, perhaps the closest to having equality amongst the three at the start of the story is strong at combat (body) but has a cold attitude (weak in heart). Notice how the three characters start out with inherent differences?
That can be seen to emphasize a number of different things, but perhaps the most important is teamwork, which is specifically singled out right at the start. Those who go about sprouting the proposition that the series is called Naruto because Naruto will almost certainly become powerful at the end of it have ***COMPLETELY*** missed the point of the story, and then some. To bring up some final things you should notice when dissecting and analysing Naruto - notice that its mentioned several times that Naruto is the type of guy who could never be the main character of a story. I leave it to you to make the final connections about what this means in terms of story meaning.

3) Jounin Requirements: We dont know them! Thats right. So far, we have yet to encounter anything remotely resembling criteria for qualifying to be a jounin. Everything we have is based on pure speculation and observation of existing jounins. Hence, any suggestion that Naruto qualifies to be a jounin on *any* front has no real basis in fact! What we can do (and what has been done) is compare Naruto's skills with other characters. While this may yield some interesting comparisons, it again fails deal with the problem of exact criteria.

4) Naruto's skill. It has been brought up briefly in this thread, and extensively in other threads not confined to this forum as well. To shoot down the biggest turkey, lets start of with this notion that Naruto is a genuis. He isnt - and thats regardless of how you stretch the meaning of the word. Genuis in the normal sense means you are incredibly talented in a particular field, so much so that you far surpass the typical smart guy/girl who gets 95% in all his subjects. Statistically, it means that true genuises are few and far between, and the probability of a randomly chosen baby being a genuis is so small its basically negligible.
In Naruto, the word has taken on an expanded meaning to include those who are genetically superior to others - IE primarily the Uchia and Hyuga clans, and whatever Haku's clan was.
Now, notice that Naruto does not satisfy either the original definition of genuis or the expanded definition. He instead has the Kyubi which could easily have ended up in another random baby. The reference to Lee being a genuis of hard work likely referred to the fact that he was incredibly hard working beyond others in the same way that normal genuises are innately smarter than others. Shikamaru is currently the only true genuis we have encountered so far.

Now were past the genuis ideas, we can examine Naruto's actual skill, which is *full* of contradictions primarily because of the need to have Naruto save the day as the main character. Although the story tries to account for the often ludricrous leaps in skill, it doesnt quite manage it. This normally doesnt matter as were supposed to employ something called suspension of disbelief when were watching movies/similar things, but while were analysing it with a magnifying glass, this luxury goes out the window.

Lets start of with his intelligence. As it currently stands, we are positioned to view Naruto as possessing to put it nicely "below average" intelligence. If I were extreme, I might say that were he any less intelligent, he may start to fall into the borderline "mentally challenged" category, and if I were at the other extreme I might concievably - albiet with prodigious stretches of interpretation - say Naruto is at least average to above average intelligent. As it is, les just go with below average - significantly below average because the author of this story has quite clearly positioned us towards this interpretation, and in this case the author's intention is the only one that counts.

Hmmm....... running out of time.

Very quickly, Naruto is a genin and for good reason. First exam: He passed because he had courage, but he completely failed if you look at the first intention of the exam. 2nd exam - Doesnt really count because of inteference from Orochimaru, but he contributed more because of his stamina than any actual skill in fighting. 3rd Exam - the two commenting examiners peg him down as a fail.

Conclusion: Naruto isnt qualified to become a chunin let alone jounin. You could say he has a large normal chakra capacity, but certainly we cannot say it matches that of jounins. It is only with the added chakra of the Kyubi that he attains a comparable level of chakra. His actual skills (encompassing tai, gen, and ninjutsu) seem averagish to above average at best, but certainly not exceptional. Im not going to speculate as to whether that is sufficient for jounin or chunin qualifications because simply we arnt given that information. His brains leave alot to be desired. IMHO, barring some massive and unlikely change in intelligence, the only way he'd ever become Hokage is if a bad guy killed off everyone else in the village who was more qualified than him. Why? Because I'd presume being Hokage takes more than decent ninja skills which anyone could acquire with enough time and effort. It requires wisdom and intelligence to lead the village. That said, this *is* just a story intended primarily to entertain people, and like all stories were supposed to suspend disbelief. Therefore even if something is realistically unlikely, we shouldnt be surprised if it happens.