Eps 78 & 79

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: Nova
Simply put Naruto is a genin for a reason. The reason is that even though he has a ton of chakra, knows some very high level techniques, and is very creative in battle, he is also NOT good at some things. To become a chuunin you should be good at everything, to become a jounin you must be very good at everything.

I'll outline one situation where he isn't, there are more than one but I don't wanna type too much right now [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] ...

" A ninja needs to be able to read underneath the underneath. "
Naruto doesn't do this, and Naruto doesn't REALLY even understand this. I like naruto alot, i'm not trying to say hes weak, and in my other post I say alot of positive stuff about him. A perfect example of this is that Naruto got past the first part of the chuunin exam on guts and luck alone. If there actually had been a 10th question he woulda been toast and this discussion would have been over. If he had tried to cheat he probably would have been another person caught. He had a blank sheet, he couldn't cheat without getting caught, he hadn't developed those skills. And back to the original reason, he didn't even realize he was supposed to cheat. Now obviously its been awhile since then and Naruto is becoming more powerful every episode, but the facts remain that some of Naruto's basics are still not up to Chuunin level. And whether he could deafeat a Chuunin, Jounin, or Hokage in a head on battle, before they are going to promote a young excelling kid, they are going to make him round out all of his skills. That includes his Taijutsu techniques which could use some work, his Ninjutsu which is definately his strong point, and his Genjutsu skills, along with his ability to "understand the situation". Even though Naruto may come up with inventive, and unpredictable combinations of techniques he still is just learning how to read whats going on around him.

Granted Naruto's skills arent up to par in certain respects, but he passed the first exam for a reason. He couldn't figure out that he was supposed to cheat, nor did he even want to when given the chance, but he knew there was no point in giving up. I'm sure that far smarter people have been elimated for not realizing that. Another thing to realize is that, even in the first exam, teamwork was important. Sasuke and Sakura knew that Naruto had no chance in the exam, and they should have been able to make up for it, someway somehow, specially considering that his failure meant their failure. Consider Rock Lee. He had no way of getting the answers...on his own. His team managed to slip him the answers. So you can't really say he doesn't deserve to be a chuunin based on that. You have to look at the overall. He performed well in the second part of the exam. He's the one that drew sasuke out of his fear of dying, which is something that needed to be done, and he's the one that figured out how to beat the goop ninjas. Also, when sasuke came up with the password at the beginning of the test, I'd be willing to bet that Naruto was fully aware that he wasn't expected to remember it based on how readily he said he didn't remember.
Then there's the third exam. The examiners said that naruto shouldn't be chuunin because he doesn't know when to give up, and that if he were leading troops into battle, it would cost too many lives (or something somewhat to that effect). Well, that's a wrong of looking at the picture. First of all, Naruto has a demon in him, what neiji did to him was nowhere near all that he could handle, so truth be told, he wasn't given a reason to give up. To drive the point in, he had enough remaining chakra to go and beat shit out of gaara after his match, which mind you, occured in the same day. Another thing is, how do you predict how someone is going to react when leading a group into battle based on how they act when they only have themselves to consider? People generally think and act differently in both situations. So, the third exam is not a good indicator of the leadership qualities of a ninja, and that being the case, naruto performed not just well, but brilliantly. Overall, he deserves to be a chuunin.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: ?igma

Originally posted by: ELiA
I hear you talk about stealth.

NOne of naruto's characters use camouflage. They wear the most colorful outfits, well most of them.

see!! im right HAI!!

you guys are soooooooo stupid. aruging with you guys is same as arguing with 12 year olds. pointless.

you guys still can't see why he is not a chuunin. he is too reckless, he needs to be more professional about what he does, not attack everything head on.

[Uchiha Barles]

What's the point of going in a roundabout manner to complete something when you're perfectly capable of doing it head on? And what hell?! Naruto's come up with strategies time and time again that weren't at all "what you see is what you get", and they worked. His style may be foward, but it's effective dammit. Not saying he shouldn't get better where he's lacking, but he's no less a ninja then any other genin at the moment.

[CapsuleCorpJX]

I never said he was Chunnin worthy as being able to lead a group of ninjas effectively. I said he had strength and fighting ability way above the average chunnin, and on par with ANBU or lower Jounin.

"This is the first time in a while I've seen such a skilled brat, even if he's an annoying one."
- Toad Boss.

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: gokudagreat
thats just not true though, in multiple battles naruto makes incredibly smart tactical moves during the heat of battle: first battle against zabuza, battle against kiba, battle against gaara etc.

It is true that he doesnt know alot of jutsus, but hes young, and he will learn

I hate to make this comparison, but Naruto is like Goku in some aspects, for instance Goku is a complete idiot but when it comes to the heat of battle, he is ingenious strategically and the same goes for Naruto, he may not know alot of Jutsus or be the brightest, but he has a determination like no other and he is incredibly smart in the heat of battle, hes just rough around the edges

Yeah Naruto is a genius when it's in the heat of a battle like when he turned himself into a shuriken agianst Zabusa and when he jumped on and off his bunshin to do 1000 pain agianst Gaara. Hi relies much on instincts.

[HokageVirus]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
for those who are arguing about the A rank mission naruto 'did' listen to this. you guys are forgetting the most important thing of being a ninja. stealth. which naruto lacks 100% of. he has no skills spot out the little things that would make him a ninja that can do A rank missions. naruto has only faced his opponents when it was a face to face ordeal. NEVER has he ever faced an encounter where stealth was involved. the point is, naruto would not even have the chance to go face to face with an opponent like haku or someone like him, naruto would just get killed without ever knowing it.

ok yeah THAT, be true (at least 80% true, cuz ya know....when it comes to hiding he IS an idiot) and that dude who insisted i didnt read all of our lovable hamster loafs posts? i did. believe me. i did. i never said Naruto would be able to do an a rank alone, note i said TEAMWORK maybe 3 times in the quote hed made of me. a rank missions, b rank missions, c,d and mayve even an e (e would be simple existng since its not a real rank) arent one man jobs. theyve NEVER been one man jobs. a SQUAB of ninjas go out to deal with them. of course naruto cant do it alone, hesnever been trained to, and isnt SUPPOSED to. and DUH those mist nins made him wuss out, they were his first actual DANGER. (mizuki doesnt count, hes wussier then naruto was) but yeah..haku coulda ofed him AND sasuke at any time if he wanted to. remember, that stupid boy was toying wiht them. at any second he could hvae vital point stabbed them BOTH, and theyd be croacked, giving him time to support zabuza. haku had the strength, and skill to kill naruto. even the opportunity. but not the heart. BUT THEN AGAIN this si a show ABOUT Naruto, of course they ain gon croack him.

[HokageVirus]

you guys are soooooooo stupid. aruging with you guys is same as arguing with 12 year olds. pointless.

lol sorry for double post i just GOTTA ay somethin, kinda like re-wording this sentance.

"Arguing ABOUT Naruto, is like arguing WITH Naruto"

[jing]

Naruto isn't strong as jounin
It was all the work of gamabunta. Naruto did shit except summon him. which only takes alot of chakra.
Just because you can summon something doesn't proove you are good. Gamabunta is the REAL hero there. I bet kakashi could summon a really good frog too. AND he has skillz, therefore making him a wicked jounin.

[Gods_Son]

If Naruto was worthy of being a jounin or chunnin right now, Kishimoto would've made it so. He may have strength, but he doesn't have the other characteristics necessary to qualify him for a higher rank. He will earn it after showing more development.

[Superman]

Originally posted by: jing
Naruto isn't strong as jounin
It was all the work of gamabunta. Naruto did shit except summon him. which only takes alot of chakra.
Just because you can summon something doesn't proove you are good. Gamabunta is the REAL hero there. I bet kakashi could summon a really good frog too. AND he has skillz, therefore making him a wicked jounin.

What was Gamabunta going to do to beat the shukaku? He was getting beat even befor Gaara did his fake sleep jutsu. After the real demon woke-up, Gamabunta was totally over matched. He couldn't even do a good henge without Naruto. Then he was getting pushed around even after Naruto had woken Gaara up. Gamabunta was totally spent and Shukaku showed no sign of slowing down.

"Naruto did shit except summon him." don't be absurd. It was Naruto's henge, It was Naruto that punched Gaara to wake him up. It was Naruto who broke through the sand to deliver a huge head-but that destroyed the sand demon.

Naruto is a huge dominator. I agree with the creator of this topic "He is as powerful as a jounin."

[MemnochTheCaT]

You've got some interesting points, Superman, but you must remember that it was a cooperative effort of both Naruto and Gama, they would both have lost fighting individually. Gamabunta was the one that explained the way Gaara was the medium and had to be awoken, etc .. and the one who explained the need for the henge, and also supplied most of the muscle for the battle.

Naruto by himself would have been totally destroyed by Shukaku, for that matter even Jounin-class ninja would probably have a hard time surviving the encounter unless they could summon something to match shukaku in size/speed/range/defense/offense. Shukaku seemed to be even slightly more powerful than Gamabunta, he was at his limit when Naruto finally knocked Gaara the fuqq out [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Edit : OT, I think that Naruto certainly has some Jounin-level capabilities, but isn't worthy of that rank yet, and probably for some time.

My take on Naruto's abilities :

Physical Strength : Chuunin level
Chakra Strength : Jounin level
Taijutsu Ability : Genin level
Genjutsu Ability : Genin level
Ninjutsu Ability : Chuunin+ level
Tactics Ability : Chuunin level
Command intellect : -Genin level
Strength of will and heart Ability : Hokage level

[Superman]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
You've got some interesting points, Superman, but you must remember that it was a cooperative effort of both Naruto and Gama, they would both have lost fighting individually.

Oh, without a doubt Naruto could not have beaten Gaara without Gamabunta. That is just like saying Naruto would not have beaten Kiba without Kagebunshin. That is one of his ninja techniques. You can't forget that Gamabunta is a summon. He does not exist without a powerful ninja to summon him.

Naruto's total power = Naruto's normal power + Gamabunta's Power

[Shakugan]

damn you are all flaming naruto why do you watch the show anyway its name is naruto not sasuke or anything naruto just plain ownz in the whole show and in these 2 eps he just shows us that hes not the everage dumb kid your all saying he is

and....

i think you should all remember that its possible that inside naruto not just kyuubi but also the 4th could be so that would mean maybe the blue chakra he uses to summon gamabunta comes from the 4th...
I was thinking about and i gues it was like i need to protect every one and all the dudes in konoha say that the 4th had love for the whole village and wanted to protect every one so maybe BIG TIME naruto is strong because hes just 4th reincarneted(or something like that) and maybe he isnt good in using his original chakra because of stupid foxie inside but damn flaming naruto that's just dumb...

[MemnochTheCaT]

When did I ever flame Naruto? He's one of my favorite characters, and I believe that in time he will achieve his goal of becoming Hokage. All I did was express my opinion that while he shares some measurments of Jounin-level strengths, he isn't quite worthy of all the responsiblities that such a title requires at this time. He still has a lot of growing to do (in many ways), before he is ready for that. That isn't flaming Naruto, it isn't even a criticism .. it's just honesty, with no ill intent whatsoever.

[Gaz]

After reading everything being argued here, it seems to me EVERYONE
is reading far far far too deeply into what has happend in the series.
Just relax, its an Anime, for entertainment to make you happy and
enjoy what you are watching.

The way I see it is that, so far all battles have been against equals.

Hokage vs Hokage through to Genin vs Genin.

The only time this has been miss matched was during the much argued
about A rank mission.

At the end of the day, Naruto is rock solid. The main reason he could
not regulate his chakra was not due to kyuubi being inside of him,
but due to the seal that was placed upon him during the chunin exam.

No-one, and I mean, NOONE can say anything related to what level
naruto should be at this time as we have only seen Naruto(genin) VS
other Genin's. Another point is that the Genin rookies are constantly
being described as the best in the last 5 years due to the way they
kept beating older, more "stronger" oponents.

The higher rank ninja seem to use little techniques at all other than
hand-to-hand combat skills. Look at the way Kakashi fights the sound
ninja even though he apparently is the "copy Ninja" and knows 1000's
of techniques. He has used approximatly 5-10 techniques, and a whole TWO
that are memorable in 79 episodes.

I have come to my statements above through watching the Anime, I have
never read and do not wish to read the Manga (unless Naruto gets
Licensed [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ). Going by what has been seen in the Anime, genins
fighting genins, you just cant say a good arguemnt about proposed
ranks that characters should be. You just havnt seen enough fighting
between higher rank ninja's.

To say Naruto should be a Jenin is stupid as no-one who has seen the
Anime has watched him fight against a higher ranked Ninja in One-on-One
combat.

Finally to finish up, ALL of the Genins we have seen were put forward
for the Chunin exam, this means ALL of the genins should have had
the potential to gain this rank and as such arguing over who should
actually be a chunin is pointless.

episodes 78/79 have been the best yet and I cant wait for more!!!!

[Uchiha Barles]

MemnochTheCaT, wow, that seems like a fair assesment of naruto's skills. Although, on the physical strenght department, I might be inclined to give him jounin strenght because of he just doesn't stay down despite the abosolutely incredible beatings he gets, based and then still wins the fight by either punching or kicking the opponent all in the face. And his fist seems to knock people out like no one elses (except gai).

Another category that might worth looking at is situational analysis outside of combat, like avoiding traps and the like. Not sure what grade he'd get that though. Probably genin based on the first exam. But he did notice the dead boars in the zabuza fight and knew to go back and save the little kid and his mother

[Gaz]

*scraches head*

some people just love to argue

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
MemnochTheCaT, wow, that seems like a fair assesment of naruto's skills. Although, on the physical strenght department, I might be inclined to give him jounin strenght because of he just doesn't stay down despite the abosolutely incredible beatings he gets, based and then still wins the fight by either punching or kicking the opponent all in the face. And his fist seems to knock people out like no one elses (except gai).

You might be on to something there, but I was a little conservative because of what some Jounin have done. Remember Gai doing the bruce-lee punch that tossed that guy through the wall like a rag doll? Or the slight tap from Jiraiya's finger that sent Naruto hurtling through the brush straight over a cliff? Then again, compared with someone like Hayate, Naruto's raw physical strength may be at least comparable, if not superior. In the end, I chose my estimate because of the relatively few examples of Jounin strength that we have witnessed. I have edited my other post with a new catagory, however [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Uchiha Barles]

Hah! I'm guessing that the jiraiya finger attack was done with a load of chakra released with the strike, would make sense. But yeah, the evaluation is definately fair. And thumbs up for the new category.

[The_Fourth]

I agree with Gaz, you people are looking TOO much into it. Overall I really liked 78 as well as 79, I think the story is getting real good.