Eps 78 & 79

[Nova]

Well let's see.

Naruto as a person is dumb. He often doesn't even understand whats going on around him, however that said he has a very good combat sense, using his Jutsu's wisely (even though sometimes it doesn't seem all that wise at the start) - The first Zabuza, Neji, and Gaara semi-Transformed fight show this.
He has an incredible amount of determination, and becomes even more powerful when fighting for a precious person. And it seems that everyone he gets to know seems to become a precious person, maybe like the 4th who was said to think of every villager as a precious person. Naruto certainly isn't quite there yet but maybe getting closer.
His skill in Genjutsu, and Taijutsu is low, and his Ninjutsu is average for a genin ninja of Konoha.
However he is improving. Like Lee with Taijutsu, threw simple hardwork and determination he is becoming better at Ninjutsu, mostly through the walking on water, and earlier the tree climing excersises. However he has tremendous power, and stamina (mostly thanks to Kyuubi) but definately not only thanks to Kyuubi. Even when hes not using pure Kyuubi power it is stated that their chakras are mixing so even the "blue" naruto chakra is more abundant because of Kyuubi, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't already alot of his own anyway. I think Genin is still perfect for Naruto, even though he defeats Gaara (who is at least a jounin level battle). Although Naruto has an amazing sheer amount of power (his punches seem to hurt ALOT even though they are simple as far as style goes) his technique control and style, and overall understanding of the situations around him isn't even at Chuunin level. So in short, even though he is probably as powerful as some Jounin, and could probably beat some of them thanks to his combat inventiveness and Kyuubi's power he should continue working on those basic skills.

Basicly once he becomes less naive of things and smartens up a little bit (grows up), and trains a little bit more on the basic jutsu's and fighting techniques, then combines those with his own creativity and his other strong points, it'll be a short trip from Genin -> Jounin.

[complich8]

I'm going to relate this to hunter x hunter instead of dbz, because dbz has no definite "ranks" or "stages" in growth, other than "kicked everyone's ass" and "kicked everyone's ass by going super saiyajin [2,3,4]". I'll try to avoid spoiling hxh plot too much...

In hunter x hunter, the first 30odd episodes are devoted to gon getting his hunter license card. I'd equate that to passing the "student" phase of ninja life. The hunter exams serve as a basic skills selection thing.... the students in naruto becoming genins are about on the same level. Genins and newbie hunters are about on the same level: they're new to actually doing things. There's a whole iceberg they don't know anything about.

In hunter x hunter, there's a "hidden exam" that people who really deserve to be hunters find and take. It involves being introduced to and learning to survive in the world of the whole iceberg, instead of just the tip. I'd call that the equivalent of chuunin -- you can grasp the situation, you can think your way out of situations, you're generally ready to be sent to do stuff on your own. Not saying the hardest stuff, not "go take down this country" but "go and kill this person" or "go and do this mission" -- that is to say, you're still learning and improving, but you're clearly better than a complete newbie. In hunter, you have years more training to do to get to the "completed" level, but you've demonstrated that you can make it that far and you have some proficiency in the field.

Chuunin is elite in that a relatively small number of people will make it there. But at the same time nobody ever said chuunin was "you have completed your training" -- which is why they give them the lower rank missions. I think most chuunin missions would have a somewhat clear path to follow. Take for example Naruto, Sakura and Shikimaru's mission they're on right now ... the path was clear: "chase down sasuke and stop him from chasing gaara any further" -- easy enough. In the process, gaara's comrades tried to shake sasuke and tried to delay naruto's team as well... and a complication arose. Dumb luck and determination are what kept naruto's party from being annihilated, it's not something you can consistently rely on.

Jounin is more like the "completed skillset" range. Having the title Jounin still doesn't mean you've got nothing to learn, but it means that you're in the absolute best of the best. You've got a huge arsenal of techniques, you have huge reserves of chakra, you've got master class techniques and skills. Jounin is basically PhD of Holy-Shit-Ninjas. You're the type they send to take down armies and do things that don't have clear paths to follow. Where naruto and his team are at the level right now that they might be able to complete the mission, a Jounin would complete the mission no matter what. If it were kakashi there fighting gaara, gaara would be very hard pressed to win without immediately going into perfect shukaku form, and it's unlikely that the jounins in question would let that go down all the way either.

(granted, most jounins probably still wouldn't have much to be able to fight evenly with shukaku. Naruto just happened to be able to call gamabunta to do that, but one of the "beyond jounin" level ninjas had to give him that).

Anyway, for those of us keeping up with hunter x hunter, where gon is at the start of gi-final is is about where I think naruto is in his progression .... learning, polishing, growing really fast to fill out his potential a bit more... but there's obviously people that are still vastly stronger (naruto would lose to gai or kakashi without a doubt, and gai and kakashi acknowledged the whole big level higher the hokages and orochimaru and jiraiya are too).

I'm probably just rambling now since I'm pretty tired, so I'll leave it at this:

WATCH HUNTER X HUNTER. IT'S THE SAME AS NARUTO (but with a whole lot less dark and a whole lot more innocence). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Vagabond]

Dude you've convinced me. Im gonna go download it right now. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

BTW was it created by Yoshihiro Togashi?(the guy who made yu yu hakusho)

Sorry to get off topic.

[Stoopider]

I cant seem to pick up Hunter X Hunter. I've seen the first episode. The guy looks like Astroboy. I sadly to say. Put it down.

[Zelos]

If you didn't read the manga and dont want to know anything that might spol the show dont read on

Naruto definatly excels that of a lot of Jounin for 1 his chakra granted it is mostly Kyubi he can still call forth Kyubi's power and control it. He learns very complicated Justsu faster and easier for example the Justu the 4th took 3 years to master Naruto mastered it in 1 month also in 1 day he learned kage bunshin, the walk on water one... He has a huge amount stamina. With his own chakra and his alone he defeated the guy with Orochimaru (forget his name) who is almost if not on par with Kakashi. Inversly though, he just plain sucks at fighting he does fluke out a lot. He doesn't have many Justsu's and half the ones he does have are useless (harem no justu, sexy no Jutsu...) He can't lead a group and can't think too far ahead in battle (which also makes him the most unpredictable ninja in Konoha).

Jiraya is at Hokage level and if all Genin had to learn stuff on their own they wouldn't be very poweful I also am rambling pretty bad and not making very good sentences but Naruto is definately at very high Chunin low Jounin level at the very least

[itsgalf]

Zelos, I see that that is your first post. Please go read the rules. This is the anime forum, you shouldn't openly spoil like that. Use the spoiler color or just don't write it at all.

And I don't think Naruto has horrible Chakra control anymore. He might have below average chakra control still, but I think after Jairaya removed Orochimaru's seal and taught him to walk on water, his chakra control improved tremendously.

[HokageVirus]

page one pissed me off. too much stupid.

Naruto HAS succesfully belted out a strategy or 2 that were awsomley sucessful.

take this into account: while fighitng zabuza, Kakashi got careless and was captured. IF Narutp was the moron out local hamster loaf insists, then why OH WHY did NARUTO formulate the plan to free him? (kage bunshin, henge to 4 bladed shurinken, get tossed to sasuke, get thrown using kage shurinken, trick zabuza, stab him, get kakashi freed) wanna tell me that? HM?!

or houw bout this? in the forest, during chuunin exam part 2, when the mist nin attacked, if narutos a fool, HOW IN THE WORLD did he know to kage bunshinl, distract his targets, then henge THREE of them, into his comrads, do protect them and fool the mist nin, and then TOTALLY OWN the bastards?

OR!!! wat about his neji battle? AFTER! he used the kyubi chalra. AFTER! they were both pretty much spent. AFTER! they made these uge crters, if Naruto was such a mron HOW DID HE KNOW to tunnel his ass UNDERGROUND to finnishing blow Neji?

or in 78, VS Gaara, when he feigned an idiot move (the ass stab) and placed an explocive, that tore the part Shukaku a second asshole?

face it, naruto ma have AT ONE TIME been a cpmplete idiot, but he is growing. hes growing like a popieseed plant on steroids. he's learned how to use strategy, and not just run in like an idiot. he's learned to fight for others, not jsut himself or his pride. hes grown to love those, who once showed hatred (at least to an extent as of yet) many have recognized his ability, power, and potential to grow, HOKAGE INCLUDED.

"he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did"

you said that right hamster loaf?

the mission would hvae failed, and everyone would have died, unless naruto woulda saved kakashi, forgot the kyubi spaz he pulled later on. Teamwork is the #1 priority to compleate a mission without suffering huge casualty, and compleating the mission without casualty is the #1 priority of a ninja. NAruto has learned to work with his rival for the greater good. your biased outlook is keeping you from realizing some of these things.

[winnydapoo]

Cool perspectives in some of these later posts, very interesting!

[?igma]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
naruto is a joke. i'd say the things he does is about 80% kyubi and 20% him.

fool Naruto IS Chuubi ..
And dont forget, the reason why he couldnt master the easy parts of kindergarten is simply BECAUSE chuubi was inside of him. There is no telling what he couldve become without Chuubi because we cant predict different storylines..

Originally posted by: HokageVirus
page one pissed me off. too much stupid.

Naruto HAS succesfully belted out a strategy or 2 that were awsomley sucessful.

take this into account: while fighitng zabuza, Kakashi got careless and was captured. IF Narutp was the moron out local hamster loaf insists, then why OH WHY did NARUTO formulate the plan to free him? (kage bunshin, henge to 4 bladed shurinken, get tossed to sasuke, get thrown using kage shurinken, trick zabuza, stab him, get kakashi freed) wanna tell me that? HM?!

or houw bout this? in the forest, during chuunin exam part 2, when the mist nin attacked, if narutos a fool, HOW IN THE WORLD did he know to kage bunshinl, distract his targets, then henge THREE of them, into his comrads, do protect them and fool the mist nin, and then TOTALLY OWN the bastards?

OR!!! wat about his neji battle? AFTER! he used the kyubi chalra. AFTER! they were both pretty much spent. AFTER! they made these uge crters, if Naruto was such a mron HOW DID HE KNOW to tunnel his ass UNDERGROUND to finnishing blow Neji?

or in 78, VS Gaara, when he feigned an idiot move (the ass stab) and placed an explocive, that tore the part Shukaku a second asshole?

face it, naruto ma have AT ONE TIME been a cpmplete idiot, but he is growing. hes growing like a popieseed plant on steroids. he's learned how to use strategy, and not just run in like an idiot. he's learned to fight for others, not jsut himself or his pride. hes grown to love those, who once showed hatred (at least to an extent as of yet) many have recognized his ability, power, and potential to grow, HOKAGE INCLUDED.

"he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did"

you said that right hamster loaf?

the mission would hvae failed, and everyone would have died, unless naruto woulda saved kakashi, forgot the kyubi spaz he pulled later on. Teamwork is the #1 priority to compleate a mission without suffering huge casualty, and compleating the mission without casualty is the #1 priority of a ninja. NAruto has learned to work with his rival for the greater good. your biased outlook is keeping you from realizing some of these things.

love this, my thoughts exactly

[EpoC]

Naruto is at chounin lvl. At jounin lvl you don't only need power but also experience and a strategic sense.
When it comes to experince, naruto would fail because he's only been a ninja for mabybe a half a year or something.

[Aegis Runestone]

Thank you you guys! These are the points I have been trying to make!

[ELiA]

Naruto is a ninja. He is strong and he has his own tv-show in japan. Really, he's that strong!
If Itachi is stronger than Naruto, how come he doesn't have his own tv-show???

Naruto even has his own videogame. NO, wait! he has 4!!! (2 GC, 1PS2, 1GBA).
How many does Itachi have? NONE!!!
I rest my case...

[Mcdougal]

Originally posted by: HokageVirus


"he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did"

you said that right hamster loaf?

the mission would hvae failed, and everyone would have died, unless naruto woulda saved kakashi, forgot the kyubi spaz he pulled later on. Teamwork is the #1 priority to compleate a mission without suffering huge casualty, and compleating the mission without casualty is the #1 priority of a ninja. NAruto has learned to work with his rival for the greater good. your biased outlook is keeping you from realizing some of these things.

And where exactly would naruto be if it weren't for the rest of the team, hmm? If it weren't for Kakashi, he would have been f*cked seventy ways to sunday, both on the bridge and in the forest. If it weren't for Sasuke, Haku would have left him in a comatose state for Zabusa to deal with, and if it weren't for Sakura, then...then...Ok, got me there. But if it weren't for the others, Naruto wouldn't have made it far past the leaf village gates. I mean, when the two water ninjas attack, Narutos respons is to freeze! Sasuke had to save his paralysed ass. Kakashi later scolded Naruto for it.

The point that Mut@t@ was trying to make and which you seem to have missed completly, is that Naruto would never have been able to protect the Architect against the ninjas alone, not in a gazillion years.
And it would be beneficial if you actually read the WHOLE post.

[i]Naruto is not chuunin worthy or jounin worthy. he is a genin right now for a reason. he has a lot of power, yes it's chuunin/jounin power, but the thing is...if he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did.obviously naruto is strong (whether it is hokage's or gamakichi's strength or whatever) but he doesn't have the brains and skills to become a chuunin, let along a jounin.

This is a very valid point. If you compare Naruto to Shino, Sasuke or Neji, you'll find that he is inferior in the strategic department. Thats not to say he's a vegetable, as he has had some pretty nifty idéas. But he's nowhere near the level required to be a Chuunin. The only one that passed the test is Shikamaru. Does it really seem that Narutos wit comes anywhere near his? I think not.

And you mentioned that the nr one ninja priority is to complete the mission without any casualties. That's only half right. The top priority is to to complete the mission period. The second priority is to see to it that everyone gets back safe.

The rest of your post was, however, accurate. At least IMO

[ELiA]

In the 'brugklas van de middelbare school' we learned every opinion is 'right'.

[Gods_Son]

Without Kyubi, Naruto is nothing. With it, he is strong, but still lacks the experience/leadership and some of the other abilities, besides strength, necessary to be at higher rank. ELiA, nobody cares about what they taught you in school.

[Shinji Ikari]

Am i the one who has a few screws loose, or is it the morrons that complain about Naruto completing an A-rank mission saying "No it wasn't Naruto, it was Kakshi, Sasuke, Sakura and Naruto doing it"... Well duh. From what i've heard, people don't go on A-rank missions alone but as a "unit", and that for one hell of a good reason to. Yeah, you know tha answer, because it is to dangerous to do it alone. Sure, one or two special ninjas might get a secret order to do something that equals up to an A-rank, but only if they know/think he/she can handle it alone. Going in to a mission not knowing what to expect, the Hokage would be a fool olny to send in 1 guy/girl, and for that matter, he wouldn't even consider it. Even the ANBU work in pairs.

Naruto DID complete an A-rank mission, and it is a valid point to take up since he did it. Of course he wasn't the only one, but he did it.

And what's all these complaints about Naruto anyway? How about the "cool" Gaara that everyone seems to like. He is exactly the same as Naruto (only weaker because he has never made such a strong issue of training as far as i know). If it weren't for the sand, he'd look pretty stupid, standing all alone like a fool getting his ass whopped by even Sakura who i class as one of the weakest. The only thing i have seen him use, ever is his sand.

If you are going to complain about someone, then complain about Gaara.

Without Kyubi, Naruto is nothing. With it, he is strong, but still lacks the experience/leadership and some of the other abilities, besides strength, necessary to be at higher rank. ELiA, nobody cares about what they taught you in school.

And how do you know that? No one has seen Naruto without Kyubi as a character, and the manga-allknowers do say that he'd be a totally different person if he wouldn't have had Kyubi from the day of his birth. If he didn't have it, he wouldn't have been bullied. And if no one bullied him, he might have gotten friends, and if so he might not have acted like a jerk and looked like a fool. And if you consider all these facts, he might have been just as dedicated to being a ninja as Rock Lee, and just as bright as Sasuke (i don't say shikamaru because his intelligence is abnormal) and as good of a ninja as any other ninja his age.

[Mut]

this nEw guy has deraiLed the whole entire naruto anime forums. ridiculous.

[Gods_Son]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
this nEw guy has deraiLed the whole entire naruto anime forums. ridiculous.

In case that was a little too indirect, please lock any thread ELiA starts, or just ban him.

[ELiA]

You know what?

I love "naruto" !!! I don't watch it to see who became stronger, or if I was right about it.
It's the overall experience, the humor, emotion, music, everything. I look forward to 78, as I am seeing it tonight for the very first time. I'm probably not seeing 79 untill next friday, but that good right? If it's such a good ep., would you (who saw it) not want to see again like the first time?

[NewGuyinTown]

The reason that Naruto isn't a Jounin worthy is because he's dumb, eh? I wonder who is the "stupidest" of the following: Gai (Jounin), Ebisu (Jounin), or Naruto (Genin)?

I think Gai is... If Gai can be a Jounin, then Naruto can, too, at his current state. I bet Naruto can even teach better than him...