Just because I saw the post, and am with the military, the death count for U.S. troops is at 1918. Three died yesterday, in two separate incidents, that brought it to the current count.
And, the Operation is Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. It did not remain Liberty long.
@Krb: I didn't read over the entire thread, but why would you want to lock it?
Originally posted by: Strider
Just because I saw the post, and am with the military, the death count for U.S. troops is at 1918. Three died yesterday, in two separate incidents, that brought it to the current count.
And, the Operation is Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. It did not remain Liberty long.
@Krb: I didn't read over the entire thread, but why would you want to lock it?
Because it might start another flame war, but it's important to know what's going on over there. Oh btw where are you stationed? My friend just got discharged from the army.
I am on Reserve Duty at the moment, because I am a Government Contractor for General Dynamics. I work / live out here in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
I ETS in three more months, with little plans to re-enlist unless they offer me an insane bonus, which they're working on seeing if they can pull it off.
I hope your friend discharged honorably. I'd hate for anyone to have a dishonorable on their record.
His captain wanted to, but my friend got a lawyer. He didn't get a dishonorable but he didn't get a honorable either. I forget what he said, but yeah he bailed out 2 months before being shipped off to Iraq.
My unit actually called me down here to try and mobilize me with them, for a eighteen month deployment out there in the "Sandbox" [Iraq]. That was not happening.
While I am not here as military, the contract and all duties are pertaining to a military operation which is at an equivalent level. So, I got out of that one.
However, I later found out that they could not have sent me anyway, as I've been deployed for over twenty-four months, and I'd have to sign a waiver to be deployed anywhere any longer. That definitely would not have happened. Hah.
Sounds like your friend lucked out, as well.
He told me they have this policy where once you're discharged you have an hour to pack up your stuff and leave. If you're caught still on base or near it, you get put in jail and get fined 5000 dollars. So my friend wasn't able to get a lot of his things.
That's insanely fucked up.
When you're stationed somewhere, you're on orders, with your previous home or record stated somewhere on there. Once you're time is done, normally another set will be made, sending you back somewhere.
Yeah, your friend wasn't very liked at all if that's how they got treated after being discharged.
Hopefully, they can put some of whatever training they acquired from the military to good civilian use and get a good job.
Lol, sounds like your bud got the shaft Xollence!
US Military Leaders Optimistic on Future:
http://www.newsday.com/news/na...nationalnews-headlines
http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-10-02-voa28.cfm
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
Well he's back getting drunk every night with us, so it's all good. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Lol, sounds like your bud got the shaft Xollence!
US Military Leaders Optimistic on Future:
http://www.newsday.com/news/na...nationalnews-headlines
http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-10-02-voa28.cfm
I don't think there's anyway you can make the situation in Iraq optimistic with all the casualties, but I still think we need to stay there and finish what we started. Besides with Merkel leading in the elections, we might get German support again.
BUMP
Yall who think American military tactics are underhanded and deviant might like to take a look at this article.
U.S. denies using white phosphorus on Iraqi civilians
By Phil Stewart
ROME (Reuters) - The U.S. military in Iraq denied a report shown on Italian state television on Tuesday saying U.S. forces used incendiary white phosphorus against civilians in a November 2004 offensive on the Iraqi town of Falluja. It confirmed, however, that U.S. forces had dropped MK 77 firebombs -- which a documentary on Italian state-run broadcaster RAI compared to napalm -- against military targets in Iraq in March and April 2003. The documentary showed images of bodies recovered after a November 2004 offensive by U.S. troops on the town of Falluja, which it said proved the use of white phosphorus against men, women and children who were burnt to the bone.
"I do know that white phosphorus was used," said Jeff Englehart in the RAI documentary, which identified him as a former soldier in the U.S. 1st Infantry Division in Iraq. "Burnt bodies. Burnt children and burnt women," said Englehart, who RAI said had taken part in the Falluja offensive. "White phosphorus kills indiscriminately." The U.S. Marines in Baghdad described white phosphorus as a "conventional munition" used primarily for smoke screens and target marking. It denied using it against civilians.
"Suggestions that U.S. forces targeted civilians with these weapons are simply wrong," U.S. Marine Major Tim Keefe said in an e-mail to Reuters. "Had the producers of the documentary bothered to ask us for comment, we would have certainly told them that the premise of the programme was erroneous."He said U.S. forces do not use any chemical weapons in Iraq.
A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said earlier on Tuesday he did not recall white phosphorus being used in Falluja. An incendiary device, white phosphorus is also used to light up combat areas. The use of incendiary weapons against civilians has been banned by the Geneva Convention since 1980. The United States did not sign the relevant protocol to the convention, a U.N. official in New York said.
The Falluja offensive aimed to crush followers of al Qaeda's Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, said to have linked up with local insurgents in the Sunni Arab city west of Baghdad. Some Western newspapers reported at the time that white phosphorus had been used during the offensive. In the documentary called "Falluja: The Hidden Massacre", RAI also said U.S. forces used the Mark 77 firebomb. It cited a letter it said came from British Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram, saying 30 MK 77 weapons were used on military targets in Iraq between March 31 and April 2, 2003. "The only instance of MK 77 use during (Operation Iraqi Freedom) occurred in March/April 2003 when U.S. Marines employed several bombs against legitimate military targets," Keefe said.
He said the chemical composition of the MK 77 firebomb is different from that of napalm.
RAI posted a copy of the document at: http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ra...cumento_ministero.jpg.
Italy has nearly 3,000 troops in Iraq despite strong opposition to their presence there.
Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is trailing in opinion polls ahead of April elections, and his centre-left rivals have vowed to eventually pull troops out of Iraq.
RAI posted the full report, including television images, at http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/new...K-IRAQ-USA-WEAPONS.xml
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
I know this must have been said before, but this war was just for profit. It is another Vietnam. What really surprised me is that the American majority actually was in favor of this? I would really like to see the specific details on such a majority, personally I think it was just BS. The media was for the war, and sided with the government to go to war. The general public fed off of the propoganda of the media, and thus they began supporting this ridiculous war. Now, just answer me what the hell Iraq has to do with the Taliban, if you show me a connection, I'll shut up. Till now, no one has shown a link. It just proves to me as an American, that government reform is needed. I believe the United States of America's democracy is already lost in beaucracy. I have lost several friends in Iraq, and I still do not know what my friends died for....
EDIT: Check out www.cnn.com and read the article on the White House's "Hit Back" campaign, I just love how the US government seems so childish
Bah....there are dozens of open attrocities in wars, and hundreds of hidden ones. Officials deny everythign, and the media tries to prove them wrong while still maintaining that the war itself is necessary (since all media is government controlled, one way or another).
Give it a few years, and the truth will come out. A decade after this war ends we'll hear the real stories from the soldiers and civilians, and we will no doubt see de-classified documents proving or disproving all these current controversies. Untill then all we have is a tug of war between the media and the government. No way to tell whats true and whats false.
Well most wars are for profit, there's been no real good reason to go to any war. And yeah there's war crimes commited on both sides. Like how we killed more Japanese civilians by bombing every city over a population of 10,000, except for Kyoto I think, than in both Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined. Attrocities are a part of war and is needed to win. You can't expect your soldiers to follow the rules when the other side doesn't.
lol... what a load of brainwashed bollocks.Originally posted by: Xollence
Attrocities are a part of war and is needed to win. You can't expect your soldiers to follow the rules when the other side doesn't.
How is it "brainwashed bollocks"? Why don't you actually back up your remark? We bombed civilian targets in almost all of the recent wars we were in, including World War 2. If we didn't, many more Americans would've lost their lives. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what happens in war. Attrocities happen.
Chill guys chill. We all have opinions to voice, none will carry the day any better on an online forum...
I don't like the use of advanced weaponry (and i've said this before) because I believe it gives the the underdog side logical reasoning to play dirty, employ terrorist tactics, etc. When the military personnel can be guaranteed better protection than civilians in the disputed area, we've reached the point where Defense (for the soldiers) has destroyed the ancient rule of war "War is where <u>soldiers</u> fight and die." Now, it is much easier (and has a greater impact on one's foe) to kill lots of civilians. It is a case of the Shield being able to protect the Knight, but the Princess getting scorched by the Dragon's flames....
There are no MORAL justifications for comitting atrocities during wartime. There will always be LOGICAL justification, but that doesn't make the action any less cowardly/underhanded/tyrannical/disgusting... The conduct of wars is taking a back-seat to winning the war.
And I don't believe that the enemy's employing dirty tactics creates any moral justification for the U.S. (or anyone) to also play dirty. Those were civilians down there.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
I don't either, but it's gonna happen. It's hard to tell who the civilians are in this war. They're using little kids and women to place IEDs on the roads.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
And I don't believe that the enemy's employing dirty tactics creates any moral justification for the U.S. (or anyone) to also play dirty. Those were civilians down there.
I agree with Masamuneehs completely.
I dislike war as do many people, and many of us know that many battles could be avoided if there were a better understanding and communication between people in the world. I do not agree with attrocities being needed in a war in order to win, I do believe that they are an inevitable part of war though.
Again, let me restate what I dislike about this whole war. It is not what attrocities each respective side has committed. It IS the lack of power the United States Citizens had over the issue. I personally believe that the majority of citizens did not want to go to war. That is why I made the statement of media propoganda. Corporate America DID want a war, and for the very same reason that has been stated in previous posts: PROFIT! The U.S., like any other organization, wether it be a religious organization or non-for-profit, all are businesses. That is why I say the U.S. lost its true essence of democracy and I now consider it to be a beaucracy. I love my country with all my heart, that is why it bothers me to see it in its present state. I am totally against the extreme measures many people are taking, wether it be suicide bombings or dangerous riots. I believe that action is needed, but not in the form of violence.
Finally, the truth will come out. But how many parents, spouses, children, family and friends will be left without their loved ones?
Update on the use of white phosphorus by the US.
Basically, the Pentagon today admitted that it did use phosphorous as an incindiery weapon against Fallujah militants, but denied using it agaisnt civilians.
http://news.google.com/url?sa=...tml&cid=1102380945
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
give it a year or so and they'll admit to that as well
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