Iraq War

[SK]

ok here you go chambers.
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[Mut]

chambers is gonna get captured and interrogated by the cia for suspicion of endangerment to the u.s. by calling their book garbage.

[Swallow Your Soul]

Originally posted by: Stoopider

Originally posted by: FearTheMullet

I am from Poland. Not Germany. .

Hey!! I was right!! BTW, do you like Jerzy Dudek?? I like him too. Go LIverpool! Sorry. Sidetracking.
[/IMG]

Stoopider do you like every team in the Premiership? I remember you commented on my old Man City related sig (that I don't have anymore) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[Xollence]

Chambers I already gave you the link to the book. It's on http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/....html#Military

"WWW.CIA.GOV""WWW.CIA.GOV""WWW.CIA.GOV""WWW.CIA.GO V""WWW.CIA.GOV""WWW.CIA.GOV"

Military manpower - "availability""availability""availability""availab ility""availability""availability""availability"

well ive been in the british army, thats who iam to dispute. the UK couldnt raise a 15m strong army in ten years even with conscription. neither could any other 1st world country for that matter. i dont care what book says it its wrong, its not the number for the standing army and the reserves put together, even that is less than a tenth of what he stated.

Hmmm... that's not true. Germany mobilized 20 milion during World War 2, Japan 9.7 million, and Brits 5.8 million, and the USA 16 million... all in a few years.

[chambers]

iam sorry to break it to you guys, but that figure of 73m is not males serving in the army, its available man power. in other words its males aged 18-20 (maybe slightley older, but 18-20 has traditionally been the call up age for every country) who are not in education, carrying any permannet injuries or have a religion that is against killing people (cristian doesnt count neither does jewish).

if you think your army has 73m in.........well i feel sorry for you.

if thats the same place you got the figures from france and the UK then its the same thing.

and @ xollence you do realise that ww2 had conscription right? we dont have that now. people are a LOT more open minded now than they were then, a lot more people would simply refuse. so i reckon they could probly match the numbers (no way germany could make it to 20m tho) but then they would be totally exahausted.

[Xollence]

We never said we had 73 million serving in the army, we said that it's the size of our military manpower. Big difference.

S-K's first post about this:

Lets check out manpower, US=73,597,731, France and UK combined=24,443,355. hmmm....i guess you could add in more countries to even it, like portugal or something.

No where did we ever say that we had 73 million serving in our army.

[chambers]

yes well its misleading to state that. the US would never get 50m to fight in a war, let alone 70 plus.

[FearTheMullet]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
FearTheMullet.....it sounds to me like you're saying that since that people of iraq would have to deal with a strong culture change by changing the government, that they should just stay as a dictatorship forever. Change happens, and its something that is for the best, whether it may be inconvenient or not. I was just talking to my friend who served in iraq today, and he told me how horrible the conditions were there.....here you have saddam living in huge palaces while the people live in such poor work environments that when the US gave them hard hats for construction, they all took them home and left them there because they didnt want them to get SCRATCHED! My friend even saw some guy with a big circular saw cutting pipes while just sitting on the pipe without a hat, goggles, gloves, or anything....having a better government would not only give them more power, but it would improve their standards of living as well. There were iraqians who begged the US officers to take them to the US to live or to recieve medical treatment...and my friend says that they ask soldiers for stuff ALL the time because they view americans as "VERY GENEROUS PEOPLE"

you really have no grasp of reality, do you?

Close but no cigar, what I said was that the US's view has no grasp on reality. By invading the country and ousting the dictator they turned the whoe soceity upside down, and now they are backing out. Post war Iraq was conrroled by the Sunni minority, adn the Shi'i was opressed. The rich Sunni minority is not gonna give up their power to the Shi'i. In the midst of the Sunni uprisings, they're (the US is) leaving. Saddam is gone but Saddams tyranny has been replaced with a civil war. A civil war that the US can't contain, so they are "Transferring power" in othe words "avoiding responsibilty for the god awful position they have placed Iraq in". Read everyinthg before telling someone they dont grasp reality, and dont try and tell me I'm wrong, this isnt opinion this is fact. The US started the democratic movement in the wrong way, all they did was through the country into civil war.

[FearTheMullet]

Originally posted by: Stoopider

Originally posted by: FearTheMullet

I am from Poland. Not Germany. .

Hey!! I was right!! BTW, do you like Jerzy Dudek?? I like him too. Go LIverpool! Sorry. Sidetracking.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm Chambers, if they do have a martial law like the discussion earlier, the numbers would be more realistic. Especially to have a full blown war like that, the Gov would throw in everything they got.

But that is the CIA book whatever. Who are we to dispute?

And the US army does have the Anti-Nuclear tactical weapons or something like that I was hearing in the news.. Saying that it can take out a nuclear arm weapon from a distance before it touches US's soil.

US is still the worlds superpower, supirior technology so what not. But it's impossible for them to rule over countries. Too many God damn liberals!! Hah [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Dman striagh , Jerzy's the man. Sadly Poland didnt qualify to Eurocup...but at least we beat Italy in a friendly. FIFA here we come!

[Mut]

i guess the EDIT button is disabled for certain users.

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: Swallow Your Soul

Stoopider do you like every team in the Premiership? I remember you commented on my old Man City related sig (that I don't have anymore) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

(Another SIdetrack)
I'm a supporter of 3 teams. Sorry because I don't live in England, therefore I might not have such loyal strong support as you guys, and I know how fanatical you are. However If I had the time and money, I'll love to go to UK and just sit in the matches at the stadium.

I watch on tv all the time though. My number one love is Liverpool followed by Manchester City(I'm a Kevin Keegan Fan, and their restocking the Old Liverpool squad [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img], but I think it's mostly I like how Man city plays).

Yeah.. FearTheMullet. Polish national team is really strange. You guys can beat champions but yet can lose to nobodies. At least you got the prides "I beat them's"

[chambers]

yeah theres nothing like sitting at old traford when its a full house hearing 60k plus people shouting 'united' out for a minute.

[Swallow Your Soul]

Originally posted by: Stoopider

Originally posted by: Swallow Your Soul

Stoopider do you like every team in the Premiership? I remember you commented on my old Man City related sig (that I don't have anymore) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

(Another SIdetrack)
I'm a supporter of 3 teams. Sorry because I don't live in England, therefore I might not have such loyal strong support as you guys, and I know how fanatical you are. However If I had the time and money, I'll love to go to UK and just sit in the matches at the stadium.

I watch on tv all the time though. My number one love is Liverpool followed by Manchester City(I'm a Kevin Keegan Fan, and their restocking the Old Liverpool squad [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img], but I think it's mostly I like how Man city plays).

Yeah.. FearTheMullet. Polish national team is really strange. You guys can beat champions but yet can lose to nobodies. At least you got the prides "I beat them's"

Yeah just to sidetrack one final time...anyone who likes the Blues over United is allowed to like the scousers (Liverpool).

KK rocks, only scary thing is that we have no money to buy new players for next season (shame we can't afford Daniel Van Buyten who would have been happy to join - he was a fucking mammoth in defence!).

It sounds like City have a lot in common with the Polish national team then...we beat United 4-1 at Eastlands yet we lost to shit teams like Wolves, Portsmouth, Leeds, Leicester etc, despite playing good football. Next season will be ours [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

The one consolation for our awful season is the fact that United came 3rd (muhahahahahaha) and went out of the Champions League.

[stops to allow people to go back to topic]

[Stoopider]

Of Course Sys. This season was a weird one, lots of strange dissapointments, ai. Man City with it's quality should be playing in europe dammit!

Yeah Daniel Van Buyten. That fellow was damn good. He was damn solid with Richard Dunne at the centre of the defence, Distin's not bad.. but that guy need more experience. Still not as solid.

Anyway.. Enough of football!! Where were we?
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FearTheMullet is right about the Sunni Shi'te thingy. Their going to kill each other. I see Iraq splitting in half because of it. Too much bad blood extending down from many generations. It's going to take a long long time or a miracle to get over it. However I don't think their 'Avoiding responsibility'.

The Iraqi's, according to the latest poll, Iraqi's believes that US are just the next tyrants in Iraq. Not liberators. Thus, US have and is giving the country back to them, and least observe or help out in the politics or at least setting up a base. If a civil war is going to happen, at least the US can do something to minimize casualties unlike the UN. Their not pushing the responsibility back to the people. Their not goiing to chicken shit and run like Vietnam. If they do, then I would be as critical as you.

We all know that US going into Iraq opened up a can of worms(I agree with you to that part). It's in a precarious situation now, but they can't leave just like that. Then they would be really 'Avoiding responsibility'.

[SK]

i dont know why the US wants to run the show so bad, too many soldiers gettin killed, hand it over to the UN so the frenchies can be happy and we dont have to deal with that sandbox anymore.

[chambers]

money thats why.

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
i dont know why the US wants to run the show so bad, too many soldiers gettin killed, hand it over to the UN so the frenchies can be happy and we dont have to deal with that sandbox anymore.

Honestly, I think the UN is crap. But with international backing, the US would probably soundmore trustworthy. Thats why I think maybe Bush would lose the coming Election because with Kerry in, probably they'll be international backing.. Maybe.

They didn't want to go into Iraq before (The UN) claiming it was 'too dangerous'. Rubbish.

[chambers]

stoopider you need to think b4 you type.

the UN is crap because the US and the UK MADE it crap by not following its orders, if they wernt important members of the UN sanctions would have been brought agaisnt all countries involved in the invasion and occupation of iraq.
and i dont get your point about the US sounding more trust worthy, do you mean as a replacement for the UN ordo you mean the US would appear more trustworthy if it had international backing? or somthign else?

about the UN wanting to go in. well we now know the reason (WMD) the uk and us used to enter iraq was a complete shower of shit. they didnt not want to go in because it was too dangerous. they didnt want to go in because they had NO REASON to enter the country as the UN has no interest in the price of petrol in the US. (wivh btw is still incredibly cheap!!)

[Xollence]

Ummm gas in the US ain't cheap, the prices are rising like crazy. We didn't invade Iraq for their oil. We already spent much more than that oil is worth.

[Stoopider]

Sorry, let me requote.... I meant 'Trustworthy to the eyes of the Iraqi's'

And about the UN not going in thingy.. I'll find for my backings later. Now it's 2am. Gotta get some sleep. Gnight y'all.

But Your right about US and UK made the UN crap. What happend to all the other countries eh?