Iraq War

[r3n]

eugh, sharingankakashi, its people like you that sicken me. you're an american that condones the fact that america kills innocents jst to expand its power influence. and ill tell you a country that could quite easily destroy america, which is china. has the largest army in the world, by far aswell as a large nuclear arsenal, america wouldnt dare attack them, cos it would be suicide. im jst waiting for when america get their foreign policy shoved down their throat by china.

assertnfailure, plz dont talk about WW2 like its the europeans who were indebted to the americans. if our countries hadnt lost millions of lives to stop the nazis in both WWs, america would have almost certainly been invaded by now. and if i remember correctly, in WW2 america didnt even want to join the war cos it would be too expensive or some bs. so you can see how much they value their allies (i have no idea why the UK even sides with the US, shud jst stick with europe).

and yes jusdaman i actually agree. if all wars were solved like that it would be a lot less hassle. all osama wud need was a couple of pretzles...

[Lego]

eugh, sharingankakashi, its people like you that sicken me. you're an american that condones the fact that america kills innocents jst to expand its power influence. and ill tell you a country that could quite easily destroy america, which is china. has the largest army in the world, by far aswell as a large nuclear arsenal, america wouldnt dare attack them, cos it would be suicide. im jst waiting for when america get their foreign policy shoved down their throat by china.

Lets see how they do with taiwan first...

[Koyuki]

It don't support US, but Saddam is plain evil. Just watch South park. Saddam did a "Mussolini". And compairing Bush and US to the natzis is just wrong.
Most of the natzis, was just plain germans who wanted a better life. So they joined the natzis and got food.

Man can't they help other countries insteed of killing people. It's the people of US who's paying for the war.

[Swallow Your Soul]

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
well this is going to be my last post here, as i said before since you arent american i dont think you can understand. the fact that people are sypathizing with those who are killing coalition forces right now baffles me. i'm sorry your anti-america, and believe americans are as bad as nazis, but ill speak the truth now as i did before. i just think its jealousy, its as simple as that. i know you dont want to but accept the fact that america can do whatever the hell it wants until there is a country that can match them. the us went against the UN, which is basically the world, to go to war against iraq and what did they do about it? nothing. why? because they cant.

Yeah I'm gonna stop posting unless there is something specific I have to say (in case I have to reply to something basically). I just want to make a couple of last points in response to this post

Point 1) I don't understand how not living in America has that much to do with whether I can comment on this war or not. Iraq didn't carry out any attack on America in order to start this war so why should an American understand any more than anyone else?

Point 2) I'm not anti-america, I don't like the actions of your government...that is not being anti-america

Point 3) I'm not sympathising with those who are killing coalition forces. I am against the war - that is a completely different thing.

Point 4) I don't believe americans are as bad as the nazi's, but I understand the point the people who made that sign are putting across. The American government is basically making a statement that 'cross america and get invaded', and also brought in a law silencing whoever in their own country wants to publicly disagree with this war.

Point 5) Despite the fact you say I can't accept the fact America can do anything they want - I can! And I have! I am in denial of nothing because that is exactly what I have been saying - IT TERRIFIES ME THAT AMERICA CAN DO PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER WHAT THEY WANT!!!

Point 6) I'm not jealous about anything, if Britain started throwing it's weight around (if it had as much weight to throw around as America that is) then I'd be just as much against our government than I am right now against America's government - I've said numerous times that I totally disagree with our current government on various issues, one of which is the war on Iraq, others involving education etc.

Point 7) The fact that the UN can do nothing about it is exactly what scares me...just because America are free to do what they please because no-one can oppose them doesn't mean they are right in doing whatever the hell they want to do. A bully isn't justified on picking on victims just because s/he is bigger and stronger than them.

EDIT - yeah I know I said I had a couple of last points when in fact it turned out to be seven, but there turned out to be more things I had to point out than I anticipated...

[SK]

Originally posted by: r3n
eugh, sharingankakashi, its people like you that sicken me. you're an american that condones the fact that america kills innocents jst to expand its power influence. and ill tell you a country that could quite easily destroy america, which is china. has the largest army in the world, by far aswell as a large nuclear arsenal, america wouldnt dare attack them, cos it would be suicide. im jst waiting for when america get their foreign policy shoved down their throat by china.

assertnfailure, plz dont talk about WW2 like its the europeans who were indebted to the americans. if our countries hadnt lost millions of lives to stop the nazis in both WWs, america would have almost certainly been invaded by now. and if i remember correctly, in WW2 america didnt even want to join the war cos it would be too expensive or some bs. so you can see how much they value their allies (i have no idea why the UK even sides with the US, shud jst stick with europe).

and yes jusdaman i actually agree. if all wars were solved like that it would be a lot less hassle. all osama wud need was a couple of pretzles...

Well I know I said last post before but this one made me have to respond. I do NOT condone the killing of innocent people, but when there is war people other than soldiers will get killed, and that just shows how ugly war really is. At this point I believe war was neccesary instead of allowing a psychotic tyrant to continue to rule an oil rich country. Like someone earlier said as a world superpower you need to keep the potentially powerful enemies down before they become a much greater problem.

No I dont think China could defeat the US. Just because they have the most men doesnt mean they would win in a war. America's true power is in their technology, military technology is usually atleast 10 years ahead of the technology we know/use now. The weapons we see are the ones that will easiest get the job done, but it doesnt mean its their most powerful. I also remember the giant China being defeated by a country smaller than the US, Japan, who they have been defeated by many times throughout history, most recently WWII. If a war with China was ever going to happen the US would know well before hand, allowing them to re-instate the draft and swelling their forces.

About your WWII statements, that one made me chuckle. Where would the UK be if the US hadnt entered WWII? Oh yeah thats right invaded by the Nazis, and inevitably the US would have had to enter WWII to bail out you Europeans who are so soft now compared to your former 'greatness.' Yes it is true the US was making a lot of money off WWII. So what? The US was supposed to stay out of European problems and Europe is supposed to stay out of problems in the Americas. But, Europe couldent defeat Germany so we had to save you. Not to mention help countries rebuild after the war.

[JusDaMan]

=) China's military is on par with americas. not alot of people believe that because we rarely hear crap about wat china is doing.. the latest news is SARS which happened like a year ago.. (besides the 7 china man going to iraq). Reason why back then china lost to japan. industrial revolution, Japanese modernized with western ways and wooped alot of ass. china was still using old school renasance cannons when japan was using Like tanks and crap. Man japan even wooped russia around that time too.
When japan bombed pearl harbor america didn't go in with that much force cause japan was a "rebel", they were born to fight. american woulda won eventually but the sacarfice was too great. that's y america did a 2 hiroshima's.

[SamuraiOdin]

Who are China's big allies though? We have most of the powerful nations siding with us, and in some cases *i.e. North Korea's Nukes* China even sides with us. China is not a problem simply because if one of us attacked the other, it would incite World War 3, and no one is willing to do that. So while two super powers balance each other out, it in no way stops the US from doing what it needs to.

[r3n]

[quote]
Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-

Originally posted by: r3n
About your WWII statements, that one made me chuckle. Where would the UK be if the US hadnt entered WWII? Oh yeah thats right invaded by the Nazis, and inevitably the US would have had to enter WWII to bail out you Europeans who are so soft now compared to your former 'greatness.' Yes it is true the US was making a lot of money off WWII. So what? The US was supposed to stay out of European problems and Europe is supposed to stay out of problems in the Americas. But, Europe couldent defeat Germany so we had to save you. Not to mention help countries rebuild after the war.

so you think that if you hadnt helped the rest of europe + russia fight against the nazis, you would have still been A OK today? bullshit. without europe fighting the nazis to begin with america would have been crushed in under 10 years. europe was the one that lost the lives in the war. not america. you wanna be at the forefront of a war? by all means, we'll pay for your funeral, and rebuild ur house too.

ive had enuf of arguing about this topic neway. im not gunna change my opinion becos of what you say, and ur obviously not gunna change ur opinion no matter what i say. so im jst gunna agree to disagree, go love ur government and all the lovely things theyre gunna do for the world.

[Vagabond]

You're giving the US too much credit.
As far as im concerned if it weren't for the russians the US and the rest of the world would've been screwed.

[Lego]

I would love to see any country, do something about the violence in Africa. The congo and etc instead of iraq,north korea and etc.

It seems africa gets looked over the most.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Do I think war is the answer? No!
War is actually the question....YES! is the answer.

You are all foolish to think that your voices actually matter.
Things are happening right now that you will never ever
know about and probably never understand. But to sit
at home and bitch about the things that are going on in
this world and continue to sit without action leads me to
believe more in my state of opinion which is...fuck it!

[img]i/expressions/devil.gif[/img]

[Assertn]

i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....

our success benefits all democratic countries, so quit bein a tree hugging hippie r3n

[SK]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....

our success benefits all democratic countries, so quit bein a tree hugging hippie r3n

WORD

[Mut]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....

our success benefits all democratic countries, so quit bein a tree hugging hippie r3n

trees are meant to be chopped down for paper not for hugging.

[Swallow Your Soul]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....

Yes America did turn the tides of WWII when we were at our lowest...and helped considerably afterwards - and it is appreciated.. From what little I've heard about WWII (history class at school being about 5 or 6 years ago) America didn't want to fully get into war as the American public did not want them to do anything about it, then Pearl Harbour happened and then America got involved...either way, whatever happened it was very good for the allies that America came in towards the end.

Past doesn't justify present though, helping us out back then doesn't justify doing something wrong in the present (whether you think this war is wrong or not is irrelevent - I'm just making the point).

As I've said, past doesn't justify present, so stop making stereotypical generalisations about people who happen to disagree with you. Calling people who are anti-war tree hugging hippies is just as bad as calling the American Government a bunch of Nazis...both accusations are considerably over-exaggerated.

[JusDaMan]

Originally posted by: Lego
I would love to see any country, do something about the violence in Africa. The congo and etc instead of iraq,north korea and etc.

It seems africa gets looked over the most.

Aite let me ask u.. Since when did australia EVER in human race get attacked. Same question for antartica (im sure theres atleast 100 people living there)

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: JusDaMan

Aite let me ask u.. Since when did australia EVER in human race get attacked. Same question for antartica (im sure theres atleast 100 people living there)

I think Australia were getting attacked by the Japanese. But I dont think they ever invaded.
I know this because I saw a documentary about Japanese zero fighters crashing all over the Northern parts of Australia. Something like that lah.

But it wasn't a full blown Invasion. I'm no History buff, but I suspected during that time, Japanese doods were too far stretched and/or was roaming around Indonesia and/or protecting the Philliipines because during that time, US was retaliating.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Several things I'd like to point out ..

1st, I think the US gets too involved with world affairs, and I wish our govt would worry about serious domestic problems before picking fights with tin-can dictators like Saddam. Alas, we are already involved, I hope the situation improves. Very difficult to stabalize a country where different factions are so hateful of each other that they use murder and violence as their first options. Sadly, the only stable solution seems to be a brutal regime that keeps people in check, like Saddam's. Which brings me to the question .. if that's the best we can hope for, why did we bother? WMD? Terrorist funding? Nah, it's probably just an issue of $. Sad.

2nd, on the China military issue.. China would have been extremely dangerous if they had advanced convential weapons and training in a pre-nuclear world. The fact unfortunately remains, however, that we are in the age of the H-bomb, and that basically nullifies the advantage of huge numbers of troops (just more bodies to fry). So what we are left with is the comparison of arsenals. China's ICBMs are slow, and carry a maximum of 1 5MT warhead at a range of around 13,000km .. and that's their DF5A, which is liquid-silo based .. takes a while to prepare. They only have 20 of these in confirmed existence. China is a respectable force in conventional terms, but a toothless one in terms of nuclear capability. They would need to crank out fast, solid-rocket (no warmup) ICBMs with huge MIRV warhead systems in order to compete.

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab17.asp

What is EXTREMELY sick, is the vast and potentially planet-killing nuclear arsenal of the US. Consider the absolutely staggering power of the Ohio-class boomers. A *single* Ohio could fire it's entire payload of 154 tomahawks (which can deliver nuclear payload), in UNDER SIX MINUTES. The same if you have an Ohio outfitted with it's 24 ICBMs, each of which can carry independent MIRV warhead systems ..

The bottom line is that a SINGLE Ohio can kill almost everyone in china within a span of about 30 minutes. That's the world we live in today, SSBN and ICBM/MIRV with huge MT are unequaled. Use in war would have catastrophic consequences for the world.

AFIAK, the last count of US nukes was something like 114x more than China. Only the USSR was as committed as the US was to h-bombs, and it made them go bankrupt.

I'm not sure what's worse, fighting enormous wars like WW2 where millions of soldiers and civilians die the old-fashioned way, or a next-gen nuclear war where billions die in less than a day.

[Mut]

i didn't understand a single word in that sentence...too many acronyms, but from what i can tell... us > china. agreed.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Rofl, yeah Dazzz I think you more or less got it right [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]