http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx check out the casualties. It's crazy how so much is going on but the news only report 1 or 2 deaths a week.
http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx check out the casualties. It's crazy how so much is going on but the news only report 1 or 2 deaths a week.
Well i think the shocking number is the amount of iraqi civilian casualties. Something like 13,000 dead.
This thread could get very.. very... ugly...
Yeah not everything gets in media, Just a few cases, if everythings was on the news there would be mass-protests all over the world...
It could...but what is being said is true...Originally posted by: Lego
This thread could get very.. very... ugly...
I saw a pretty scary documentary off suprnova which basically showed just how much the American (with my country at their side) government lied and selectively using information to make the situation sound a hell of a lot worse...the documentary featured loads of people who used to work in the US government and former weapons inspectors etc...its worth watching (just under an hour long)...
The media don't seem to do enough...but then thats no surprise... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
And worst of all the damn iraqies defiled the dead american soldiers, like hitting them with a stick and record it, after they were dead.
damn americans lol
Oh im not argueing if its true or not, i think its great theres other media sources, im just saying all it takes is one person like dbz to go damn americans, which me living in the US, most are.It could...but what is being said is true...
Someone takes exception to that phrase, fires back blah blah blah, flame war ensues.
i swear...if some stupid ass comes in here bitching about how our soldiers die in wars and war isn't necessary, then i'ma go berserk.
It doesn't really matter to me if the US government lied, the real point of this war is to get rid of Saddam BEFORE he became a much more SERIOUS threat. 'Freedom isn't free.'
Alright im sorry. I shouldn't have said that.
Actually im from the US...
Told ya... I find its best to leave the political issues to the people skilled in that area. If you ask someones opinion on a message board, your likely to get someone who comes in behind them refuteing them.
Along with what seems to be a heavy anti-war,anti-us feeling in other countries, its not that hard to predict that you'll get some flames.
Ive always found it funny tough how people sitting on their computer,in shorts or boxers, eating a box of ho-ho's , drinking a can of sprite, watching a chick dance around in skimpy clothes on a computer, watching anime are EVEN qualified to flame each other over people, of all countries dieing in a war, regardless of which one it is.
The official election results from the Iraq elections are in.
The Shiite minority won the largest share. (128 seats out of 275, won by the Shiite coalition). The Kurds got about half the number of seats the Shiites did, 53 seats.
The big news is that the Shiite and Kurdi seats combined, falls 1 seat short of the two-thirds majority required to maintain a majority in the legislature. That means they will HAVE TO combine forces with the Sunnis (the sect that is most prevalent around Baghdad and the sect that Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath Party came from).
I love this. Cooperation between these three groups is the only way that Iraq can recover political stability IMO.
Also, it is interesting to note that the political part of the current interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi of Iraq (a secular politician) only got 25 seats.
Maybe there's hope yet!
News coverage:
NY Times Coverage on Iraq Election
ABC News - Iraqi election breakdown
RadioFreeEurope coverage
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
deception was even worse back before media had as much influence as it did now
you guys talk about how the US lies and stuff....but did you know that Saddam used to kill his own people and point fingers at other countries just to gain more support?
people outside of the US like to just sit there and whine about stuff, but its because of Saddam that Iraq is the way it is now, and his influence over the people just decieves them into believing that whatever he says is the right way. Therefore the deaths on their side is because they are fighting for the beliefs that saddam brainwashed into them, the US isnt purposely killing iraqis
and Vagabond, dont try to be condescending as if you actually know whats good for the world.....im sure if a bunch of foreigners start dissing everyone in your country because your government decided to get involved in global affairs, then you'd be acting the same way we would
edit: ok i didnt realize you were actually in america......i guess i wouldve expected that from someone from another country
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
It's amazing how people react to coverage of casualties these days. This is nothing like WW1, WW2, or even Korea or Vietnam. All death is bad, especially civilian death, but it's not on the same scale that it has traditionally occurred, and that is something to be thankful for.
My personal feelings on the Iraq situation, are that things were horrible before, horrible now, and will be horrible in the future .. the reason? Too many competing political/religious/business/government groups who all seem to hate each other and will kill as many people as they want to wrest control. Saddam's Baathist murderers are a drop in the bucket to the bloody ambition of the fundamentalist Shiites, who overwhelmingly support a hard-line Islamic government. I have nothing against the islamic faith, but it's a proven fact that islamic governments are notorious for oppressing their citizens, often with bloodythirsty vengeance towards ANY questioning of the rulers.
It's just a big fat messy mistake, that is just going to get worse until the US finally decides it's tired of bringing back it's people in body bags and coffins. Some situations are just lose-lose.
It isn't about 'dissing' Americans...it is criticising the American government...and thats a very different thing...I'm anti war (because Iraq posed no threat to the majority of the world and had fuck all to do with 9/11 - the american (and us english who allied with them) government pretty much used 9/11 as an excuse to tie Iraq and Saddam, with the Taliban and Bin Laden (when in fact the two hated each other and were totally against each other)) and my government went into this war supporting the US government (demonstrating IMO that Tony Blair has no spine). "a bunch of foreigners" can diss the UK all they want for all I care because my government don't represent me, and they don't represent the people of the UK, because our so-called left-wing government is just totally up the arse of the American government...Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
deception was even worse back before media had as much influence as it did now
you guys talk about how the US lies and stuff....but did you know that Saddam used to kill his own people and point fingers at other countries just to gain more support?
people outside of the US like to just sit there and whine about stuff, but its because of Saddam that Iraq is the way it is now, and his influence over the people just decieves them into believing that whatever he says is the right way. Therefore the deaths on their side is because they are fighting for the beliefs that saddam brainwashed into them, the US isnt purposely killing iraqis
and Vagabond, dont try to be condescending as if you actually know whats good for the world.....im sure if a bunch of foreigners start dissing everyone in your country because your government decided to get involved in global affairs, then you'd be acting the same way we would
edit: ok i didnt realize you were actually in america......i guess i wouldve expected that from someone from another country
The biggest tragedy in recent American history was dispicably manipulated by those in power as an excuse to go to war with Iraq...yes Saddam Hussein should have been sorted out but it isn't for America just go against what the UN say and just invade because they don't like the politics (even if Hussein was totally dispicable towards his own country). Are they just gonna invade everyone whose politics they don't like? Because there are a shitload of countries who also have appalling human rights...are they all going to be invaded? The government mis-represented information as if it was a bullet proof case to go to war...yet a whole load of the information (at least from what I've seen) was flawed and much of it was very open to interpretation...thus going to war (in the first "pre-emptive" war ever as far as I know) was unjustifiable...
Hussein had no interest in any war against the west, he did unspeakable things to his own people, that isn't in question...but the reasons given by the US and the UK about a pre-emptive war weren't in my opinion justifiable...and to the guy who says its amazing how people act tough behind their computer...this isn't acting tough, it is just an opinion...when the non-existant weapons of mass destruction and the mis-interpreted information from years and years ago about the whole '45 minute' thing (by which time any weapons would no longer be usable anyway as the ones in question had a much shorter shelf life), when the weapons of mass destruction weren't proved...THEN they started changing their reasons for going to war...and now Colin Powell admits that the pre-war intelligence could have been flawed! ( Link )
I'm not against Saddam being punished for his crimes, but I find the idea very scary the amount of manipulation that is resulting from 9/11...and I won't even go into the USA Patriot Act!!! I also won't go into how companies are manipulating this situation to make money (including the first Burger King to be in Baghdad)...
Ah well, politics never go well on this board...I don't know why that is...on another forum I go to political arguments aren't necessarily treated with such apprehension...its quite sad that politics can't be discussed because 'it'll turn ugly'... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
hey i know, lets skip to the end result of this thread:
the american government doesnt give a shit about anyone but itself! and if you think otherwise.....
you're a moron!
the point im making though is that ive known people on this forum to target americans in general for the things that our government does...which is totally wrong to do
besides....nobody truly knows if the results of a war is good or not, because the events change entirely as a result....maybe saddam wouldve actually done some drastic things in the near future if he was left alone...maybe not....but if he WAS going to, then nobody will know about that now, and all that will be acknowledged was that the US was just bullying iraq around
yes thank you r3n....a very appropriate label for the melting pot of the world
wups, forgot my sarcasm tags [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I just think that there has been no hard evidence to suggest that Iraq were able to, were ever planning to, or even would ever be able to attack the west from Iraq...thats what I don't like about it...
Yes you are very right though when you say people who target Americans in general for actions carried out by their government is totally wrong...or any country for that matter (I've also seen Americans and Brits targetting French people because their government opposed the war).
Having an opinion either way is fine, I can see the situation from the pro-war angle, even though I don't agree with it I can still respect it, as everyone is going to have differing opinions but it is when people say something like "if you think something that is open to debate is 'this' then you are a whiny moron" that is ignorant (I'm not aiming this at you AssertnFailure btw...I have just encountered a few people (including my Dad - I've learned not to argue with him though it took me a few years lol [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ) who do actually say stuff like that.
ps - anyone who saw the first line from my original post - I mis-interpreted the post I'm responding to so I got rid of it...
I really don't have a pro-war or anti-war opinion.
Even if i wanted no war, i can't do didly squat about it. March down a street? Pfft, no one listens.
Even if i was pro war, i couldn't do anything also, watch TV all day for explosion coverage?
I treat it as news, and thats all it is. The TV network news stations need ratings, want you to watch, thats why they have lead ins like "Tonight on the so and so show, is iraq turning into blarghy?"
Then they have a retired war guy, talking about something he would do the exact same thing for.
Even during the day, news agencies want the best coverage.
But thats getting off the point.
I do agree that i HATE people of any country, even mine that generalize. Ive met people online, especially those idiot brazillians last night in the room that kept saying in portugese all americans are stupid etc.
Im sure most would agree with me that we have our idiots(jessica simpson,bill o'rielly, etc) but most of us are pretty smart.
People say all americans are bad/evil/kicked a dog. Good for them. As many of you who know me from spending time in #animeone, or from the short time on the forum, i don't instegate much. Post funny links, give commetary, nothing that would make you go off.
Thats the other thing about the internet, being anonymous. Someone can pop in a pro-war/anti-war chatroom, hell even #animeone and go:
SO AND SO DIE DIE DIE
SO AND SO I HOPE ALL OF YOU DIE FROM SO AND SO
Like that picture arguing over the internet is like running in the special olympics.
I don't give a dam what country your from. You treat me with respect,listen to my opinions,don't down everything i say, ill treat you equally.
Its the people on both sides that want to try to force a opinion on you, or think their opinion is king of the hill, so anyone elses maybe wrong.
Its a sad world we live in these days friends when people can't even look past what country you come from to talk to you.
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