Re-read my post, I clearly said that "that doesn't mean that Naruto, Sasuke, etc do not also work extremely hard". My point was that when one chooses to use curse seals for power, it invalidates much of that work, because the seal is no substitute for real power, of the likes of Itachi/Oro/Jiraiya kind of level. If anything, having the seal seems to cripple characters progress.
There's a few things I would like to point out.
If you believe that Naruto was using Kyubi Chakra just because of a melodramatic drawing of Naruto with changes in his appearance then, you guys can believe it.
So if the change in appearance hints at Naruto using Kyubi Chakra then I guess Naruto wasn't using Kyubi chakra during the Gaara fight. I mean when he summoned Gamabunta, he didn't show any feline characteristic. So he must have summoned Gamabunta out of his own Chakra. Well then damn, Naruto is getting very strong.
So I guess it wasn't just an overzealous artist.
first i thought you were right, so checked back at the manga...and i saw this:Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
There's a few things I would like to point out.
If you believe that Naruto was using Kyubi Chakra just because of a melodramatic drawing of Naruto with changes in his appearance then, you guys can believe it.
So if the change in appearance hints at Naruto using Kyubi Chakra then I guess Naruto wasn't using Kyubi chakra during the Gaara fight. I mean when he summoned Gamabunta, he didn't show any feline characteristic. So he must have summoned Gamabunta out of his own Chakra. Well then damn, Naruto is getting very strong.
So I guess it wasn't just an overzealous artist.
one of the frames from page 12 of chapter 134
and then this...a frame from page 13 of chapter 134
in conclusion: a clear change in the pupil indicates that kyubi chakra was indeed used.
If what your saying is true, then Naruto summoned Gamabunta and made all those tons of clones using his normal chakra, which is amazing, because the last person to be able to do that is the 4th, making Naruto extremely strong, and hes only a kid, so is this true?
oh man what is with all the Itachi fanboy's he strong buthe is on the same lvl as one of the 3 for the most part, or at the hokage lvl.
in te kakshi, asuma kurenai battle. Itachi obviously wasnt trying his hardest. but lets make no mistake he was trying; on a side note his exploding shadow clone was the first definately a solid technique Itachi's jutsu arsenal has not been unleashed this i am sure of. but the same goes for the 3. we really dont know what they know. what we do know is its the mange sharingan that make Itachi so damn deadly.
Addressing someones comment about itachi not killing Kakshi; simply because he didnt want to . not because he wanted to teach kakashi something jsut because he didnt want to. Itachi isnt an animal. he says he feels nothing for his village this isnt true. the fact he left Sasuke alive is testiment to fact he knows he has lived a life that must be accounted for.
yeah, it's true. i dunno...kyubi chakra has been mixing with naruto's for years now...it could be a factor.
awesome, naruto just gets stronger and stronger
Even that wouldn't be enough. Naruto has rasengan which I think cannot be copied. The thing is at the current point in the story, Itachi is faster, smarter, has more juutsus, has the sharingan, with just those alone, Naruto could probably stand no chance, the thing is Itachi has more too, Naruto is a genin with kyuubi, but even with the mass chakra he is weak. He'd need alot more then just eyes closed fighting to beat Itachi.Originally posted by: abomb
the only way naruto could beat itachi would be if he could learn to fight with his eyes closed... and found a technique that somehow couldnt be copied
Yep, even at this stage in the series, there remains a VAST seperation of abilities between characters like Naruto and Sasuke, and legends like Jiraiya, Itachi, etc. Remember how a tiny casual flick of Jiraiya's finger caused Naruto to fly several hundred feet back off of a cliff?
On a different note, the Naruto we see now is MANY times more powerful than when we first met him, that's what I love about this series, the characters really grow with the story.
There's lots of good explanations for why Naruto is "looser" and Itachi is better than him. But why is that, is that coz u feel supperior about naruto beign outcast and u aren't? I think Narutos true strenght lies in him as he's being himself sometimes stupid but still he's improving himself in way others can't. Is it so wrong that oucast ppl can be main character. That's totally wrong way to think. One thing that I know about naruto and real life being born in to good family doesn't make u strong. As u fight whole ur life to achieve something makes u even stronger than anyone else can be though.. Naruto has Kuyubi inside him so what. Thats not his true strenght.
-Naruto does know the pain of others better than them.
-His determination to improve in his skills is something beoynd others.
-He'll never gives up if it would take his life.
-He's scared who wouldn't be.
-True strenght comes from your spirit and that's what Naruto knows well.
-Though Naruto was social outcast that's what made him as he is now.
That's only what I think and I don't want to argue about this.
Still I think strongest char is Naruto I don't measure brain or strenght, that's matter of spirit.
*GASP!!* Holy crap, Hiten!! Naruto's Kyuubi chakra is FALLIBLE!! OMG IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
There's a few things I would like to point out.
If you believe that Naruto was using Kyubi Chakra just because of a melodramatic drawing of Naruto with changes in his appearance then, you guys can believe it.
So if the change in appearance hints at Naruto using Kyubi Chakra then I guess Naruto wasn't using Kyubi chakra during the Gaara fight. I mean when he summoned Gamabunta, he didn't show any feline characteristic. So he must have summoned Gamabunta out of his own Chakra. Well then damn, Naruto is getting very strong.
So I guess it wasn't just an overzealous artist.
Anyway, it might be different in the manga (I haven't read in a long time), but in the anime, episode 78 and above, it clearly shows him summoning Gamabunta, without using the Kyuubi chakra. That also means, he summoned those thousands of bunshins against Gaara, too. No biggie though. He did do that before, too after all.
But yeah. Naruto used Kyuubi chakra against Kimimaro.
The thing is Naruto automaticly uses Kyubis chakra, example: Havent they always talked about Naruto having a greater chakra stamina cuz of Kyubi? Doesnt it seem very unlikely that Naruto can summon Gamabunta with his own chakra when about a week ago he only could summon tadpoles, the thing that is reasonable though is that he summoned Gamakichi with his own chakra.
The thing is that when Naruto "asks" Nine tails for power, he gets a much larger boost of power and speed etc, no?
So the logical answer would be that Naruto taps into Kyubi's chakra when he makes that 1000 clones attack or summoning Gama Bunta, thats what he learned from Jiraya, not learning how to ask nicely to a demon :S
Well there are 2 resons for me thinking that Itachi surpasses Naruto with power 1, Well yust use common sense and think about it. 2, Why would the Akatsuki send someone who is weaker than someone they are supposed to retrieve?
Sure Naruto has Kyuubi but if you take that away from him he's a second-class ninja. He didn't have a family, but for a long time Sasuke didn't have one either. Naruto DOES NOT have natural talent, he doesn't think rationally and thereforehe tries to make up for this he trained twice as hard as everyone else. Once again, the hero complex of many Anime comes into play where their shear determination to become the best or whatever drives the story. Not to hate on Naruto he's one of my favourite characters ever, but he really is nothing without his given advantages: Kyuubi, reading the forbidden scroll of seals when other's have not, and Jiraiya as a teacher. If Itachi or even Sasuke don't use their Sharingans they are still top rate Ninjas.
If you take the kyubi away from naruto he would be nothing more than a second rate ninja mabie thats true but if you take it away you should take it all away right from the beginning.
no kyubi means the 4th (currently believed to be narutos father) diddent die most likely hes mother (whom i assume died because of kyubi or something im not really sure howor what happened to her) diddent die or whatever.
this leads to some things that might actuallly make naruto more powerfull than he currently is
1 he would have had a father who was a kage and the 4th would have probobly trained naruto himself
2 he would probobly also have an elite tutor who is a closet pervert, much like the one konahamaru has
3 he wouldent have been an outcast from the town would have had friends who would have taken the time to help him with his training instead of dooing it all by himself
4 naruto gains all the thousands of juitsus that the village knows but loses the immense power of the kyuibi
5 so in this case naruto might easily be on par with itachi
6 theres nothing special about naruto and therefore this anime would never have come to be and we wouldent be here right now discussing it
be careful what you wish for
honestly i believe itachi can learn rasengan if he wanted to. he has excellent chakra control and hes a genius.
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