Who would win?

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
If you were the strongest person in your village and there is no term for being hokage. Would you select a successor just because they met a certain criteria? Keep into consideration that fact that there is no time restraints for being hokage. I don't see someone as strong as the third selecting a successor unless he was stronger than himself. He has shown us how much he loved the village. If the fourth wasn't stronger than third why didn't the third just remain hokage. The third remained hokage and didn't announce a successor since the fourth's death, because unless he finds someone stronger than himself. He can defend the city better than anybody else can. And remember what the title of Hokage stands for, it is given to the strongest in the village.

Sometimes people just retire, either because they're too old, they've had enough, or whatever. I'm just saying that the 4th wasn't necessarily stronger than the 3rd, in fact there's more evidence proving that he wasn't (if you consider the 3rd's nickname).

Just because the 3rd picked a successor, doesn't mean that successor was better or stronger than him. He was just finishing being the Hokage, that's all, and he picked someone to take his place. After the 4th died, there wasn't anyone suitable to take his place, so the 3rd had to take up the title again, most likely on the constant search of the 5th. Then Oro, Jiraiya and Tsu rocked up, and changed everything.

Let's use your example of the nick name. If they gave the nick name (god of all shinobi) to the third, then the fourth came along and was way more powerful than the third. Obviously the fourth deserved the nick name more than the third, but since the third came before the fourth, he got the nick name. The village can not take away such a name once bestowed upon someone of the thirds caliber. Even if the fourth deserved it. That's why the nick names don't mean anything.

Do you guys know what the term successor means. We're not talking about a royal family, who because of lineage becomes hokage. We're talking about the strongest person in the clan, not best suited as you suggest. Retirement was my whole point. The third was indeed strong, but because the fourth came along, who was stronger; he felt like he could retire. Notice how after the fourth died, there wasn't anyone stronger than himself to be named hokage, therefore he remained hokage, even to old age.

Dazzz, when printers are manufactured lets say an HP laserjet 2000dn. It prints 10 pages black per minute. Then it's successor is introduced, an HP laserjet 5000, and it prints 21 pages black per minute. Do you see how a successor has to be stronger or better than it's predecessor, or else it will be quickly replaced by another.

Dazzz, you can't simply pick parts you say has no value and other parts that have extreme value. For example, when Oro says that Itachi is stronger than himself. You cling to that as if it's the life of the Naruto manga. Yet it was just something that occured in the manga. Are you over-analyzing this qoute? To someone like me that qoute really doesn't have any meaning because nothing has happened to support anything yet. No one know how to use a jutsu better than the person who invented it. For Example, no one know how to use the sexy no jutsu better than Naruto. There is a difference between being to old to complete a jutsu and complete knowledge of a jutsu.

[Mut]

how is clinging to "itachi is stronger than myself" over analyzing? i've said it many times before, i'm taking that quote as it is. itachi is stronger than orochimaru. DONE. that's all there is to think about.

your example with the hp printers is absurd. you're making an example of something so one dimensional and comparing it to what we are talking about right now where we have to consider more than ONE single thing and it's ridiculous. are you kidding me?

i'm not even gonna bother tossing out a counter-argument cuz your example is weaker than hinata. possibly even sakura.

[Knives122]

In my opinion all 4 Hokages could of beat Itachi, they could use techniques that Itachi could never comprehend, and if Itachi even fought any of them, it would be like a blade of grass fighting a steam roller, theres no comparison with the power of Itachi and the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 1st

[Hyuuga Hinata]

Naah i dont think so.Since itachi is mostlikely stronger then orochimaru non of the first 3 hokages would be able to do it.The 1st and the 4th had trouble with defeating the 3th while the 3th already had probs with oro.The 4th would probarbly the only one that has a chance.

[originalkrn]

Originally posted by: Hyuuga Hinata
Naah i dont think so.Since itachi is mostlikely stronger then orochimaru non of the first 3 hokages would be able to do it.The 1st and the 4th had trouble with defeating the 3th while the 3th already had probs with oro.The 4th would probarbly the only one that has a chance.

Well, the 3rd in his prime would have killed Oro in seconds. Probably the 1st and 2nd were not fighting with their actual potential as if they were alive in their prime since they were being controlled by Oro. Lol and by your first "4th" do you mean "2nd" ?

[Beautiful Green Beast]

the 4th reveals himself as... MICHAEL JACKSON!
and he defeats Itachi with his Moonwalk No jutsu!! KYAAAAAA!

[itachi_]

cough cough....Despite the fact that all four hokages were about the same in strenge, none was weaker then the other... talking about their primes..

[Raven]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
Let's use your example of the nick name. If they gave the nick name (god of all shinobi) to the third, then the fourth came along and was way more powerful than the third. Obviously the fourth deserved the nick name more than the third, but since the third came before the fourth, he got the nick name. The village can not take away such a name once bestowed upon someone of the thirds caliber. Even if the fourth deserved it. That's why the nick names don't mean anything.

Do you guys know what the term successor means. We're not talking about a royal family, who because of lineage becomes hokage. We're talking about the strongest person in the clan, not best suited as you suggest. Retirement was my whole point. The third was indeed strong, but because the fourth came along, who was stronger; he felt like he could retire. Notice how after the fourth died, there wasn't anyone stronger than himself to be named hokage, therefore he remained hokage, even to old age.

When the 4th became the Hokage, it was because he was stronger than the current Hokage, because the current Hokage was a weak (I use that word loosely), old man. BUT, this does not mean that the 4th was stronger than what the 3rd ever was in his younger life. My only point in this entire discussion was that the 3rd in his prime was more than likely stronger than the 4th ever was.

And I'm sorry, no offense dude but that printer example has no relevance and makes no sense in this discussion, the concept of creating a machine that is better than a previous model is entirely different to choosing someone who is good for a certain position.

[MemnochTheCaT]

My whole question was dodged in an infantile fashion, KonoCorps. It's not bullshit to wonder why a supposedly 'godlike' character had to abandon his goal for the time being .. who was RIGHT THERE in front of him. Mange sharingan draining? Sure, but shouldn't someone as 'godlike' be able to go ahead and achieve their mission? Jiraiya was already weakened, and probably used another decent bit of chakra with the stomach summoning. Sasuke was toast, and Naruto is not even on the same level. So you end up with 2 v 1 effectively, and the 1 already injured. It's pretty fishy all the way around.

I think the bottom line is that this is FICTION, and being subject to the whims of Kishimoto's imagination rather than to pure harsh logic, odd things will happen that don't always make sense. Take from it what you will, but don't throw a tantrum just because someone doesn't agree with you.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn

When the 4th became the Hokage, it was because he was stronger than the current Hokage, because the current Hokage was a weak (I use that word loosely), old man. BUT, this does not mean that the 4th was stronger than what the 3rd ever was in his younger life. My only point in this entire discussion was that the 3rd in his prime was more than likely stronger than the 4th ever was.

And I'm sorry, no offense dude but that printer example has no relevance and makes no sense in this discussion, the concept of creating a machine that is better than a previous model is entirely different to choosing someone who is good for a certain position.

Well lets do the math. Naruto is what like 13. People say that the 4th was in his mid 30's. the old man is like how old, let's say early 70. So 70-35 = 35. So the third would have been 35 when the fourth was born. Now the question is at what age did the fourth become hokage? If he bacame hokage at the age of 15 then the third would have been 50. Now the question is, what age do you consider to be their prime? But, the point is that the third wasn't that old. He gave way to a better, stronger, inventive ninja. Look at Jaraiya and Tsunade in their 50's, they are all exceptional ninjas and are very strong. Tsunade is stronger now then in her prime. Her statement about Kabuto proves that. So not every ninja hits their peak in terms of strength and skill during their prime. The fourth was just overall better then the 3rd.

The printer was the best example of succession. Let's take dazzz example of a general. I'll make that general a lieutenant instead. Remember in vietnam when the platoon would shoot their own seargents or lieutenants. The statistics was like a military officer didn't last on the front for more than 14 minutes. Yes, he qualified to be a lieutenant, but because he wasn't strong enough his own men killed him.

It's called "survival of the fittest." If you do not have a leader with absolute strength, there will be civil turmoil as people begin to develop different parties. Only the strongest survive. I'm sure that the third could have carried the village to the current time without retiring, because he was such an exceptional ninja. But. he knew that the fourth was stronger, so he passed torch.

[Mut]

i'ma stay out of this argument for now...but where does it say that the 4th was in mid 30's?

[Evil Eyes]

So if not every ninja hits their peak in terms of strength and skill during their prime, then why is it called their prime. I always thought that when someone is in his prime means that he's at his best. He'll never surpass that.
Anyway, I strongly believe that 3rd in his prime > 4th>the rest of hokages.

[MemnochTheCaT]

'Prime' is usually referring to someone's 20s to their 40s, and as for knowing whether the 4th or 3rd were stronger, we will probably never know.

Personally, I'm leaning towards believing that the 3rd knew a broader range of jutsu, and had more raw intellect, while the 4th seemed like more of a pure combat-oriented warrior, with greater chakra and more devastating abilities (rasengan, gamabunta summoning, etc). Remember when the 3rd was holding Oro while waiting for the sealing to take place? Imagine if could have just put his palm on his forehead and blasted a rasengan through his brain .. that's the kind of power the 4th would have in that situation. Granted, the 3rd would clearly have also dominated Oro if he were a tad younger.

[originalkrn]

Didn't Sarutobi say something in a flashback about how Orochimaru would have been the more suitable Hokage 4th? Orochimaru wasn't chosen because Sarutobi didn't believe in his ways. So, if the successor is based on power, then Orochimaru would have been stronger than the 4th. Also, it is quoted that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru ( but it was quoted by him, so we don't know if its really true or if its because Oro just thinks that Itachi has a greater knowledge of jitsus and is therefore stronger than him) , and finally if :
1. Oro > 4th
2. Itachi > Oro
3. Itachi > 4th

However, the 4th could still be stronger than Itachi, but weaker than Oro cause certain techiniques work better on some people than others.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I think what the 3rd was speaking of in terms of Oro > 4th was referring to Oro's intellect and ability to analyze and learn jutsu. When it comes to physical combat, Oro appears quite weak, as evidenced by his awful performance against a VERY aged 3rd.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: originalkrn
Didn't Sarutobi say something in a flashback about how Orochimaru would have been the more suitable Hokage 4th? Orochimaru wasn't chosen because Sarutobi didn't believe in his ways. So, if the successor is based on power, then Orochimaru would have been stronger than the 4th. Also, it is quoted that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru ( but it was quoted by him, so we don't know if its really true or if its because Oro just thinks that Itachi has a greater knowledge of jitsus and is therefore stronger than him) , and finally if :
1. Oro > 4th
2. Itachi > Oro
3. Itachi > 4th

However, the 4th could still be stronger than Itachi, but weaker than Oro cause certain techiniques work better on some people than others.

No, he simply stated that he wanted his student, disciple, to follow in his foot steps. He wanted Oro to become the next hokage. But because of Oro's evil ways, the third knew that it would never happen. If you can remember that, then you can also remember the discussion between the third and Ankho about if the fourth was still alive, Orochimaru wouldn't even be a problem. It's an insult to the fourth to be thought as weaker than Oro. What were you thinking?

Oro is weak enough to rely on the strengths of the previous hokages in order to defeat the third, but strong enough to leave Akatsuki without any repercussion.

[Hotsuma]

Neither of them win. The only people who win are the dumbasses who actually put forth an argument without any real knowledge on anybody.

As Raven said. It's fucking POINTLESS to have a discussion when we haven't even seen what kind of shit either of them could do.

But, as for now. Itachi wins. Because the 4th is dead. Itachi is still, very much alive. Don't overanalyze this, people, and face the facts.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma
Neither of them win. The only people who win are the dumbasses who actually put forth an argument without any real knowledge on anybody.

As Raven said. It's fucking POINTLESS to have a discussion when we haven't even seen what kind of shit either of them could do.

But, as for now. Itachi wins. Because the 4th is dead. Itachi is still, very much alive. Don't overanalyze this, people, and face the facts.

It's interesting to see that the majority of the people in this forum has some creative skills. It takes creativity to form a hypothesis on what little information was available. It takes talent to draw a conclusion from that information into a coherent premise.

What is funny though, is people who belligerently call people names out of sheer ignorance.

1. This is a manga.
2. There are no facts. The authors will always introduce something to break the "fact" that you so heartily put your faith in.
3. Everything is sheer speculation.

If you don't like the importance of discussion or social interaction then you don't really need to participate. I'm a firm believer in the saying "there is no such thing as a stupid question," or "if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all."

[MemnochTheCaT]

100% in agreement, Hiten!

[Raven]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
People say that the 4th was in his mid 30's.

People? What people? I always thought that the 4th was about Kakashi's age or even younger, my estimate would be about 23 or so. But we have no way of knowing this, there's no record (in real life) of his age or birthdate. I still think it's plausible for the 3rd to be at the retiring age and to be selecting a new hokage candidate.