Who said they were the same seal? I stated that Kabuto was wondering whether Kimimaro's seal was stronger or Sasuke's. Never did I mention that they were the same (in case you were implicating me).
Who said they were the same seal? I stated that Kabuto was wondering whether Kimimaro's seal was stronger or Sasuke's. Never did I mention that they were the same (in case you were implicating me).
In fact, they are NOT the same seal.
Kabuto states that the seals are equal in the amount of power they give to the sealed person. Kimimaro has the "Gaia" seal while Sasuke has the "Heaven" seal.
Even if they are different seals, should the fact that they are seals suggest that there is a level 1 and 2 involved? Maybe not, hard to tell.
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
Ok, a) In Naruto's last supers in the ps2 game, he summons gama bunta. The last of those supers (assuming success) shows a figure cloaked in black on top of gama bunta. Now everyone's first response would be Jiraiya, except for some obviously overlooked factors. Gama Bunta said noone had ridden on his head since the 4th hokage when Naruto summoned him, which means Jiraiya never has, so no reason to think he is now. Jiraiya said he could not control Gama Bunta, which is another indicator that he was not the one. Lastly, they already SHOWED Jiraiya on a different toad's head in game, and have no reason to disguise him in a veil of shadow if they have already went to the trouble of giving him a character model. That combined with the fact that Naruto was VERY confused by the person being on top of Gama Bunta seems to indicate it's not Jiraiya. So with all that mentioned, where did I POSSIBLY get the idea that it's the fourth? Simple, in actuality. First, and most importantly, assuming one does not enter the key combination as fast as physically possible, but takes a couple of seconds to do so, there will be a VERY clear picture of a closeup on the fourth hokage's face as the camera starts to zoom towards the figure, in a similar way to the unbelievably clear picture of Itachi in Sasuke's supers. Another hint is when the figure leaps off of Gama Bunta to finish off Gama Bunta's air juggle, there are many many sword slashes in the typical anime style, and it has been established that the fourth carries a sword. I even believe I've seen someone here who has a signature showing the fourth's outfit in completion.Originally posted by: jonny-mt
Um, which PS2 game are you playing? Yeah, it did take some liberties with jutsus (i.e. Sakura's tree genjutsu, which is shown when the three Jounin are up against Itachi), but it was designed around the manga up to a certain point, which the anime has now caught up to. Unless I am extraordinarily mistaken as well as cursed with a horrible memory, Naruto's 3rd-level jutsu is calling up Gamabunta, not the Fourth.
Off-topic PS2 nitpicking aside, what makes you say with any authority that Sasuke is ugly in 2nd-level seal? Yeah, I agree it's probably going to be along the lines of the rest of them, but you make it sound like you know something we don't. Mayhap you could enlighten us, tell us where you got that from?
b) On the subject of Sasuke's 2nd level curse seal being ugly, we have already SEEN the second level. He was transforming out of it when he left the coffin. It had a horrendously huge head of long white hair, and the skin was very demonic and decrepit looking just as all the other level 2 seals were. also, his facial shape was distorted somewhat, and basically looked like an ugly troll wearing Sasuke's outfit. It was in chapter 209 I believe, so go catch up.
All that stuff aside, it's also worth pointing out that Naruto has NEVER BEFORE used his clones as just clones. Therefore, there is no way he was going all out against Kimi when he made that many clones, as if he was, there would have been some kind of trick going on. I think Naruto was merely severely pissed off, and not thinking clearly. But then, that's me. It's worth noting that before Kimi's attack almost hit Naruto before Lee saved him, Naruto had dropped out of Kyuubi at the sight of Sasuke. This means that there was no guarantee whether or not Naruto would actually have lost, although it is more than likely he would have. As to those of you mentioning how Naruto beat Shuusaku (Gaara's demon) It's also worth noting that there were several things going for Naruto in that battle. A) Gaara's sand shield (THE ONLY THING that kept him from being beaten to a pulp by rock lee) was already down as he was transforming, leaving him vulnerable to naruto who at the time, for all he was worth, would never have EVER been able to pierce the sand shield, as he did not yet have the rasengan. B) Naruto had time to summon GAMA BUNTA, which Kimi would never have let him do.
Those things being said, without the sand shield, Rock Lee would quite easily have beaten Gaara before he was even done transforming, since it was established that Sasuke *WAS* faster than the demon gaara, and Sasuke was only about as fast as Rock Lee without the weights. Adding to this the fact that Sasuke has NOWHERE NEAR the stamina of Rock Lee (he was breathing heavily after hitting gaara only a couple of times in the final match, whereas Rock Lee ran around the entire arena several times, delivered hundreds of blows, and didn't even break a sweat) you can safely assume that Rock Lee would've taken the opportunity presented by a lack of sand shield, and beaten Gaara senseless. Ignoring that, there is no way that Rock Lee with all 5 gates open would not have COMPLETELY crushed Gaara without the sand shield, as the gourd's sand transformation is the only reason that Gaara wasn't smashed into a thin pulp that would cover the floor of the arena like.. well.. sand.
People are under-estimating just how frightening Rock Lee was, because he lost to raw cheapness. That is just a general flaw of his fighting style. The fact is when it comes to Tai-Jutsu, Kimimaro has not been shown to have much if any more ability than Rock Lee did without the weights. He has been dodging Rock Lee in the last chapter, although barely, which shows that he is definately skilled in close combat, making him a potentially FUN match for Rock Lee. His Gaea seal has been shown to have the same properties as Sasuke's heaven curse seal did before he underwent a transformation to level 2, so it is already known that Kimimaro's curse seal is of the same type as the others, and it is quite obvious that if he is ALREADY almost dead, he definately has already acquired a curse seal level 2, as it was both mentioned that Sasuke had to 'die once' in order to gain the seal, and as it was mentioned by Kidoumaru (spider boy) that noone had brought his curse seal level 2 self as close to death as Neji did since Kimimaro had. Now you can either take this to mean that Kimimaro is so much more skillful than Kidoumaru (who in only a few minutes both determined Neji's weaknesses [ALL OF THEM] and exploited ALL OF THEM to his advantage. He was probably the 'Shikamaru' of the sound's four in terms of intellect, although nobody can compare to Shikamaru straightforward, obviously.) that he defeated Kimimaro's level 2 form with only a level 1 curse seal, or you can take it to mean that Kimimaro has a level 2 as well. Since Kimimaro lacks Neji's ability to emit Chakra from every chakra hole in his body, there is no way a level 1 kimimaro would likely have been able to stand up to Kidoumaru's massive arrow assault, so it's more likely that Kimimaro has a level 2 seal. This is just an assumption, but when his level 2 seal is shown in the manga, people will stop whining at me about this. Until then, feel free to debate it all you wish.
but you forget that sasuke fought gaara before using chidori (sasuke's limit is 3 chidori's, but kakashi said that if he uses more than 2, he risks the chance of dying from stamina/chakra loss. but sasuke still managed to do his first one which should tire him out somewhat) and then he not only chased gaara for a long time but also fought temari before facing gaara. ALSO, he had to deal with the curse seal. yes, it gives him more energy and power but it also exhausts him incredibly.Originally posted by: Kalean
Those things being said, without the sand shield, Rock Lee would quite easily have beaten Gaara before he was even done transforming, since it was established that Sasuke *WAS* faster than the demon gaara, and Sasuke was only about as fast as Rock Lee without the weights. Adding to this the fact that Sasuke has NOWHERE NEAR the stamina of Rock Lee (he was breathing heavily after hitting gaara only a couple of times in the final match, whereas Rock Lee ran around the entire arena several times, delivered hundreds of blows, and didn't even break a sweat) you can safely assume that Rock Lee would've taken the opportunity presented by a lack of sand shield, and beaten Gaara senseless.
yeah...i hate it when people say things like this. well, let's turn your argument around. here:Ignoring that, there is no way that Rock Lee with all 5 gates open would not have COMPLETELY crushed Gaara without the sand shield, as the gourd's sand transformation is the only reason that Gaara wasn't smashed into a thin pulp that would cover the floor of the arena like.. well.. sand.
there is no way that Gaara with his sand would not have COMPLETELY crushed Rock Lee without his gates opened, as Lee's gates opening is the only reason that Lee wasn't smashed into a thin pulp that would cover the floor of the arena like... well.. you get the point.
lee has been in the story from the beginning, kimimaro was just introduced. what are you thinking.The fact is when it comes to Tai-Jutsu, Kimimaro has not been shown to have much if any more ability than Rock Lee did without the weights. He has been dodging Rock Lee in the last chapter, although barely, which shows that he is definately skilled in close combat, making him a potentially FUN match for Rock Lee.
no. <--- this applies to ALL of the points you stated; starting from gaia and heaven seal being same to kimimaro being able to turn to lvl 2.His Gaea seal has been shown to have the same properties as Sasuke's heaven curse seal did before he underwent a transformation to level 2, so it is already known that Kimimaro's curse seal is of the same type as the others, and it is quite obvious that if he is ALREADY almost dead, he definately has already acquired a curse seal level 2, as it was both mentioned that Sasuke had to 'die once' in order to gain the seal, and as it was mentioned by Kidoumaru (spider boy) that noone had brought his curse seal level 2 self as close to death as Neji did since Kimimaro had. Now you can either take this to mean that Kimimaro is so much more skillful than Kidoumaru (who in only a few minutes both determined Neji's weaknesses [ALL OF THEM] and exploited ALL OF THEM to his advantage. He was probably the 'Shikamaru' of the sound's four in terms of intellect, although nobody can compare to Shikamaru straightforward, obviously.) that he defeated Kimimaro's level 2 form with only a level 1 curse seal, or you can take it to mean that Kimimaro has a level 2 as well.
i have no idea how one is able to come up with this assumption, even if it is an assumption.Since Kimimaro lacks Neji's ability to emit Chakra from every chakra hole in his body, there is no way a level 1 kimimaro would likely have been able to stand up to Kidoumaru's massive arrow assault, so it's more likely that Kimimaro has a level 2 seal.
kimimaro hasn't even activated his seal yet. assuming that he has a lvl 2 is too much. personally, i think his seal is like tsunade's, just one stage.This is just an assumption, but when his level 2 seal is shown in the manga, people will stop whining at me about this. Until then, feel free to debate it all you wish.
check mate.
EDIT: sorry for such a long post, but i thought he deserved a well-thought out response for his long reply.
Tsunade??! Tsunade doesn't have a seal. I think you mean Anko.
I think this was responding to Kidoumaru's remark when he was about to collapse at the end of his fight with Neji:Since Kimimaro lacks Neji's ability to emit Chakra from every chakra hole in his body, there is no way a level 1 kimimaro would likely have been able to stand up to Kidoumaru's massive arrow assault, so it's more likely that Kimimaro has a level 2 seal.
"Shit, I haven't been this close to death since Kimimaro...." (ch 198, pg 10)
However, this sentence trails off and is not finished, so we really don't know what Kidomaru meant. It could have been almost anything. Perhaps Kimimaro collapsed in the middle of a mission (due to his illness) and the team was nearly killed? Who knows.
I really think that it's too soon to tell anything in the Lee vs. Kimimaro fight. Wait a few weeks and things will become clear, I am sure.
tsunade actually does have a seal. it's not a curse seal, however. she used it when she fought orochimaru and kabuto. she collects chakra on her forehead and she uses it to stimulate the production of various enzymes that accelerate her cell duplication rate for rapid reformation. so, she can reconstruct any damaged parts and organs of her body.Originally posted by: lasaire
Tsunade??! Tsunade doesn't have a seal. I think you mean Anko.
I think this was responding to Kidoumaru's remark when he was about to collapse at the end of his fight with Neji:Since Kimimaro lacks Neji's ability to emit Chakra from every chakra hole in his body, there is no way a level 1 kimimaro would likely have been able to stand up to Kidoumaru's massive arrow assault, so it's more likely that Kimimaro has a level 2 seal.
"Shit, I haven't been this close to death since Kimimaro...."
However, this sentence trails off and is not finished, so we really don't know what Kidomaru meant. It could have been almost anything. Perhaps Kimimaro collapsed in the middle of a mission (due to his illness) and the team was nearly killed? Who knows.
I really think that it's too soon to tell anything in the Lee vs. Kimimaro fight. Wait a few weeks and things will become clear, I am sure.
anyway, yeah, i knew kalean meant that, but i was referring to how he is able to come up with the conclusion that kimimaro has a lvl 2 seal just from this sentence: "since kimimaro lacks neji's ability to emit chakra from every chakra hole in his body, there is no way a level 1 kimimaro would likely have been able to stand up to kidoumaru's massive arrow assult."
it just doesn't make sense.
EDIT: sometimes my replies seem somewhat offensive, but this is not the case for this thread.
I think it more plausible that Kakashi knew how to open his Chakra gates long before that fight -- his discussion with Gai reveals that he already knew about the various gates before Lee started opening them. He may simply, like Gai, better know the consequences of opening those gates.B) Kakashi obviously learned how to open the gates from his observation of the Rock Lee fight. (Unless you can possibly conceive of a reason why he would reveal his sharingan when he realized that Rock Lee could open 5 gates, and an equally believable explanation for Kakashi's opening a gate while rock climbing.)
kakashi also could've known how to open up gates before he used his sharingan on lee. it's more feasible to believe that someone of kakashi's stature would know how to open a few gates. personally, i thought kakashi used his sharingan on lee to check out the chakra activity in his body.
if we are strictly talking about the manga, then nm, i don't think he does either.
Actually, Sasuke does not fight Temari in the manga...or at least, I believe he didn't
naaa she didnt. even if she did the results would of been the same she get her ass kicked
How could the Sharingan possibly copy the gate opening anyway? The Sharingan copies jutsus, doesn't it? Opening the gates isn't a jutsu, it's a physical ability that one can achieve within one's own body. He most likely unveiled his Sharingan eye simply so he could keep up with Lee's movements and properly watch the match.Originally posted by: Arctyc
I think it more plausible that Kakashi knew how to open his Chakra gates long before that fight -- his discussion with Gai reveals that he already knew about the various gates before Lee started opening them. He may simply, like Gai, better know the consequences of opening those gates.B) Kakashi obviously learned how to open the gates from his observation of the Rock Lee fight. (Unless you can possibly conceive of a reason why he would reveal his sharingan when he realized that Rock Lee could open 5 gates, and an equally believable explanation for Kakashi's opening a gate while rock climbing.)
Plus, I don't think that thing with Kakashi on the cliff face was a gate opening, I think he was just focusing his chakra to leap up the rest of the mountain.
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
Ah, gotcha; see where you're coming from, and it makes sense. Just to correct, though, Gamabunta said that no one has ridden on his head since the Fourth, not besides the Fourth, and Jiraiya merely says he has trouble controlling Gamabunta, not that he can't do it. Let's face it, teaming up with your old teammate against Orochimaru is not exactly the best time to be test-driving a giant toad; Jiraiya has clearly done it as well, or he wouldn't be the Frog Hermit. That doesn't affect your point about that being the Fourth, though, so it stands.Originally posted by: KaleanOk, a) In Naruto's last supers in the ps2 game, he summons gama bunta. The last of those supers (assuming success) shows a figure cloaked in black on top of gama bunta. Now everyone's first response would be Jiraiya, except for some obviously overlooked factors. Gama Bunta said noone had ridden on his head since the 4th hokage when Naruto summoned him, which means Jiraiya never has, so no reason to think he is now. Jiraiya said he could not control Gama Bunta, which is another indicator that he was not the one. Lastly, they already SHOWED Jiraiya on a different toad's head in game, and have no reason to disguise him in a veil of shadow if they have already went to the trouble of giving him a character model. That combined with the fact that Naruto was VERY confused by the person being on top of Gama Bunta seems to indicate it's not Jiraiya. So with all that mentioned, where did I POSSIBLY get the idea that it's the fourth? Simple, in actuality. First, and most importantly, assuming one does not enter the key combination as fast as physically possible, but takes a couple of seconds to do so, there will be a VERY clear picture of a closeup on the fourth hokage's face as the camera starts to zoom towards the figure, in a similar way to the unbelievably clear picture of Itachi in Sasuke's supers. Another hint is when the figure leaps off of Gama Bunta to finish off Gama Bunta's air juggle, there are many many sword slashes in the typical anime style, and it has been established that the fourth carries a sword. I even believe I've seen someone here who has a signature showing the fourth's outfit in completion.
Thank you kindly for the advice, but I am already well caught up. Considering the only picture we have of him in full Level 2 is a back shot on the top half of a single page, it's still too early to be quite that descriptive about him...all you see is white hair and darkened skin, the same kind of shade Lee has when opening the gates. Oh, and an ear. Judging from the others, I think it's a safe assumption that he's gonna be an uggo, but the way you had phrased it (and still phrase it) made it sound like you knew something the rest of us didn't. But if that's enough to convince you 100%, then that's fine by me....b) On the subject of Sasuke's 2nd level curse seal being ugly, we have already SEEN the second level. He was transforming out of it when he left the coffin. It had a horrendously huge head of long white hair, and the skin was very demonic and decrepit looking just as all the other level 2 seals were. also, his facial shape was distorted somewhat, and basically looked like an ugly troll wearing Sasuke's outfit. It was in chapter 209 I believe, so go catch up.
I whole-heartedly agree! I actually laughed out loud when I read that part about Lee using the Drunken Fist.Originally posted by: AznPerson
Druken fist + limit gates = one unstoppable druken Lee =)
mainva | aptigo | JTD out
err, sorry to remind you, but they didtn whip the leaf jounins; like ive said a thousand times THEY WERE DEPLETED JOUNINS, and if you A, are just finishin another mission and are quite drained, and tired going back and come across 4 warriors totin level 2 curse seals fresh for a fight what do you expect to happen? and they still almost got whupped by the 2 jounins anyway; so the sound 4 arent really taht powerful, and kimimaro im sure is strong, but they definatley arent jounin level; if they were i dont think they woulda been concerned bout fightin the ANBU when the sound was assaultin leaf, and callin 2 jounins a *heavy load* after gettin the crap knocked out of them. ajd kimi doenst necessarlily have to be jounin level; bloodline limit just means a certain advantage that in some situations is useful, whil in others its not---yea he is stronger than Mizuki, but put that crap that naruto pulled vs. lets say Kakashi or anyone else, and if you think about it, its basilly an army of Naruto, (bsicaly regular naruto cuz its divided by like a 1000 times iwth the kyuubi chakra), and vs. an enemy that is skilled enough to fight somethin like that that was probably a bad move by naruto. basically he was guaranteeing no hits doing that vs. a skilled enemy, and his usual brute force charge doesnt work against a skilled opponent. he caught other people becuase they were A, caught off guard, and B HE DIDNT DIVIDE HIS STRENGTH a thousand fold weakening each unit basically. sorry for the long rambling tangent, but eh had to be said :-POriginally posted by: SilentDevil
for all those ppl who said that kimimaro is chuunin lvl, or not beyond the jounin lvl, they are extremely wrong. the thing is, even the tayuya who is jounin lvl, is afraid of kimimaro. meaning that he obviously he mucccccch better than the 4 gate keepers of sound... and dont forget, the 4 sound guyz totally whupped some leaf JouNiN so.. how can u say kimimaro is below jounin lvl?
the next thing abt rock lee is that.. he drank alcohol; cos he mistake it for his medicine. and when he drinks alcohol he goes into a frenzy, in such a form, even gai is afraid of him.
last thing, regarding the on par thing, noticed everyone SUDDENLY had some new special ultimate moves or something, and manages to beat the jounins? thats because this is a MANGA it doesnt neccessarily have to make 100% sense, of course seeing the main characters, suddenly have nice skillz, and whupping ultra strong people, this would make the manga much nicer to read, thats why the author did that.
1. none of the sound's four are jounin level.
2. kimimaro *might* be jounin level. but we don't know that yet. then again, we can speculate that he's real strong since tayuya (who is actually a pretty decent ninja) is deathly afraid of kimimaro. also, someone like tayuya wouldn't let someone get away if they threatened to her life. so, i'm guessing kimimaro is around jounin level.
3. gai is an idiot. someone as clam and collected as kakashi would've just been like "eh, lee gets some what rowdy when he drinks" and ended it there instead of going "OH MY GOD, WE'RE ALL FUCKED LEE IS DRINKING HOLY SHITFUCKSLAKEKLALIDJOLWIAOJDOHIAHDIDYHAKEI'MSTUPID !!!" personally, i think lee drinking and going crazy is overrated. i'm sure he goes berserk, but not enough to cause TOTAL DESTRUCTION as gai is making it out to be.
I highly doubt Kimimaro is Jounin level. Kabuto is jounin level. Kabuto is not even worried about Kimimaro. He compares him, while using the curse seal, to Sasuke (Level 2 curse seal). Now both, while using their curse seal, are definitely strong, but not near jounin. Maybe good ANBU level.
He leveled a farkin' tavern! He knocked Gai out! That's nasty. He got the drop on Gai. I'll say it again. When in drunk mode, Rock Lee beat Gai.3. gai is an idiot. someone as clam and collected as kakashi would've just been like "eh, lee gets some what rowdy when he drinks" and ended it there instead of going "OH MY GOD, WE'RE ALL FUCKED LEE IS DRINKING HOLY SHITFUCKSLAKEKLALIDJOLWIAOJDOHIAHDIDYHAKEI'MSTUPID !!!" personally, i think lee drinking and going crazy is overrated. i'm sure he goes berserk, but not enough to cause TOTAL DESTRUCTION as gai is making it out to be.
I love this, because it is yet another homage Kishimoto is making to the great martial Arts stars and their films, in this case Jackie Chan and Yuen Wo-Pei from Drunken Master 1 & 2.
Jackie Chan was awesome in those films.
Anyway, in essence, drunken boxing doesn't appeal to me. Though it provides some comic relief, it is frankly unbelievable, and seems to discredit the idea of martial arts as a skilled practice.
http://www.chinavoc.com/kungfu/schools/cata_zui.aspAnyway, in essence, drunken boxing doesn't appeal to me. Though it provides some comic relief, it is frankly unbelievable, and seems to discredit the idea of martial arts as a skilled practice.
http://www.geocities.com/kungfu_gala...n/Drunken.html
http://www.geocities.com/drunk_monk_...ial/drunk.html
I've posted a bit about this in other threads, but as a style, Drunken Boxing is very real, and very challenging. (My current system of study, Eagle Claw Kung Fu, has one Drunken Boxing form, and it is the last one to be learned.)
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