Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps
It's obvious you don't like Sasuke, we don't need to go on and on about it. These arguments aren't getting anywhere for any character.

A. You say he isn't a genius because he didn't beat Gaara to a pulp and didn't beat any Sound-nin, are those the only qualifications?
B. You say we never see Sasuke training seriously, but that Neiji trained to learn Kaiten. We didn't see that training either, just because it isn't shown doesn't mean it isn't happening. During the chakra control training (running up trees), Sasuke worked just as hard as Naruto.
C. The reason Hinata can't do Kaiten despite her birthright is because she was not talented enough and has no confidence in herself. That's why Hiashi ditched her to teach Hanabi.
D. Sasuke not wanting to fight Orochimaru and Naruto coming is brought up. Naruto did the same thing in his first fight vs. the Demon brothers and Orochimaru is way stronger than them. Sasuke realized this and didn't want everyone in their group to get killed, which they would've been if Oro fought them seriously. He also wants to live so that he can't avenge his clan.
E. You think if Sasuke just asks Itachi politely why he killed everyone in the clan, the whole thing will be solved. He already did that when he first walked in and saw Itachi next to his parents dead bodies, the result was Itachi using his Mange Sharingan, and basically telling him to live with hate in order to gain the power to avenge the clan.

This is just a battle between what character you like better. The argument could go on forever, because you're probably never going to sway a person into liking or not liking a character. In fact, I almost feel like I wasted my time writing such a long post.
I asked for *facts* that would show Sasuke's genius. So far, you brought none.
As for *liking* : Naruto is an extremelly annoying character, and so is Hinata. But, in my opinion, one can quote enough facts as two show that those two characters have enough reedeming qualities as to be judged only by their annoying characteristics.
So far, Sasuke, for what I observed, hasn't shown enough reedeming qualities as to be considered a worthwile character. As for people, *liking* him or not, that's their problem. If I am discussing this particular character my goal is to find facts that can eventually prove that he has something *likeable* on him. As I said, so far, I haven't come upon any *fact* about Sasuke that made me change my mind about him. More than that, I used to *like* both him and Sakura. Unfortunately, they turned out to be huge disappointments. Sorta same with Hinata. I thought she was a little whining pain in the ass. But, now, I have reasons to believe she's more than that.

A. not only, but one would assume a genius would show some competency and efficiency while performing his tasks.

B. I can assume, with Gai as a teacher, Neji wouldn't get away with being a lazy bum. So far, I remember both him and Tenten being totally exhausted while Lee was able to master the Lotus. Therefore, I have reasons to believe that he's trained a lot, and it's not far-fetched to assume that it lead him to master the Kaiten. Even right before his fight with Naruto, Neji was *training*. again, enought to leave Tenten exhausted. You may argue that she is weak, but the fact is that they both *train*.
I don't particularly like Neji. I think he is an arrogant jackass, but it would be stupid for me to deny his talent and the fact that he trains hard.

C. Huh, one can be talented and lack of confidence. If Hinata's father is an ass, that's not really her fault. IMO, the role of a father is *also* to instill self-confidence in his children, and not demand perfection from them. As the sucessor of the head family she's been put under enough pressure. I think she is doing quite all right, considering the expectations she has to fulfill. When she gets to be able to say *screw you, daddy*, things will get change even more for her. That's true because,since that was what happened when she said *screw you, Neji* in her very own polite way. Then again, you may think it's ok for her father to ditch her. Those are two different opinions about rearing children, and since she is his daughter, not mine, I am assuming her daddy can do as he wishes, and you are more than allowed to think that what he did is right.

D. During the fight with Oro, Naruto called him a coward... not me... I can think of many situations in the History of mankind that the will of staying alive made people cowards. Basically it's a matter of choice. But if you take in account the values taught in Konoha, cowardice is not among the top ten requirements for being a pro ninja. And I will tell you that. If one becomes a cop because his family was killed by criminals he's a real imbecile. Sasuke has no clue of what being a Ninja really means. At least, if you consider what Enma told the 3rd just before he died.

E. I said, *if* Sasuke were able to confront Itachi verbally, that *might start* to undermine his power. I didn't say that Itachi would be defeated with chit-chat. My point is based on the fact that Neji wasn't defeated with BS, and yet, Naruto's arguments had a strong repercussion on him, and apparently are helping him to show some redeeming qualites .

Once more, I can't care less for any of those characters, but I think discussing their traits based on *facts* is an interesting exercise, since I believe my arguments are based on observation and reflection and not in my personal likes and dislikes.