I said it in the old forums, and ill say it again, im tired of hearing about the manga in this forum, the word doesn't even belong here, please do not refer to it, if you wan't to, do it in open discussion or naruto manga section, this is the anime, we do not care what happened in the manga.
I thought this episode was pretty spiffy, too, but I agree there needs to be more clarification on Sasuke's seal/Naruto's use of the Kyuubi's chakra.
As for the first one, I think the reason Sasuke collapsed was because he went ahead and used Chidori 3 times in one day. Kakashi had said that the third attack wouldn't happen, but he went ahead and pulled it off...it's only thanks to the seal that he's still alive, if you ask me. And if you'll remember, Sasuke was in a lot of pain during the preliminaries; he could barely fight because of the seal, which Kakashi hadn't contained yet. Outside of the fight against the Sound Nin, we haven't seen a single time that Sasuke used the seal without ill effects (and even then it wore him out if I remember correctly...he could barely use Sharingan at that last part because of it).
As for Kyuubi, I think that Naruto and the Kyuubi's chakra are gradually mixing, just like Jiraiya said. Can't tell you how glad I am to see that, because as cool as I thought Naruto was calling up the Kyuubi chakra against Neji, I'd hate to see this series descend into Dragonball Z-esqe "power ups". Now that Naruto knows what it feels like, there's no longer a need for him to really separate out the powers; the wall is gradually breaking down, and Naruto is beginning to really use the Kyuubi's chakra as his own. Once he masters it, he's going to be a real force to reckon with.
Originally posted by: chaos4ever4
They need to sell a plushie or beanie baby doll of Gara. Flip it inside-out, you get the demon.. and you can do half-flips to get that transition state. I think it'd be a winner.
lol
i'd buy it [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
I would probably buy that, but I think it would be kinda hard to pull off.Originally posted by: chaos4ever4
They need to sell a plushie or beanie baby doll of Gara. Flip it inside-out, you get the demon.. and you can do half-flips to get that transition state. I think it'd be a winner.
mainva | aptigo | JTD out
hmm i was thinking about the chiddori stuff.....
and while watching i noticed that they said that sasuke cannot use it more then 2 times... But he used it twice in the staduim already. the first was to hit garaa and the second to get hes hand out of the sandball.
And then he goes after kankuro and Temari,after that he encounters garaa and used the chiddori twice again and then a third time.
I mean did sasuke eat some food and sleep while chaseing temari and kankuro?
how could he regain all of hes chakara while chaseing someone?
The episode was awsome. The end where naruto comes and KICKS HIM IN THE FACE, god i can't stop watching that part. the problem with this situation is they haev to many things going on at once and they can't cover them all. it have taken 4 episodes and ochimaru still isn't dead or killed the geezer. i am getting mad that they keep starting new things without concluding others. the match examiner person is still standing there ready to fight the sand guy. i donno if anything is gonna happen with that but i would like to see it.
Now that i got that off my chest i can't wait to watch naruto and Gara fight. Naruto i don't believe can summon the frog king because the other pervert hobit did to kill the snakes and i donno if there can be 2 out at once? but anyway Naruto going mental on Gara would be TOTALY awsome. i have a very bad feeling that the next episode will be crappy and 1 huge flashback and then it will set the scene for the battle that will be in 2 episodes.
Jiraiya didn't summon Gamabunta.. it was just another frogOriginally posted by: bender83j
Naruto i don't believe can summon the frog king because the other pervert hobit did to kill the snakes and i donno if there can be 2 out at once?
yep he said in an older episode that even he,jiraiya, frog hermit, cannot control gamabuntaOriginally posted by: frexeze
Jiraiya didn't summon Gamabunta.. it was just another frogOriginally posted by: bender83j
Naruto i don't believe can summon the frog king because the other pervert hobit did to kill the snakes and i donno if there can be 2 out at once?
he used the seal that Oro gave him that gave him the chakra to do it again.Originally posted by: PoDy
hmm i was thinking about the chiddori stuff.....
and while watching i noticed that they said that sasuke cannot use it more then 2 times... But he used it twice in the staduim already. the first was to hit garaa and the second to get hes hand out of the sandball.
And then he goes after kankuro and Temari,after that he encounters garaa and used the chiddori twice again and then a third time.
I mean did sasuke eat some food and sleep while chaseing temari and kankuro?
how could he regain all of hes chakara while chaseing someone?
Actually, I believe Sasuke only used it 3 times: Once in the stadium (pulling his arm out did not require the activision of Chidori), then twice against Gaara in the forest. I don't believe the cursed seal contributed to the Chidori in any way. The idea is that he should have only been able to do it twice, but he forced himself over his limit (at the risk of incurring dbz hater wraths) just like Goku's power-ups. But, being that he did force himself to go beyond his standard limit, he drained his chakra which weakened him and thus the curse seal was activated.
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Originally posted by: PoDy
hmm i was thinking about the chiddori stuff.....
and while watching i noticed that they said that sasuke cannot use it more then 2 times... But he used it twice in the staduim already. the first was to hit garaa and the second to get hes hand out of the sandball.
And then he goes after kankuro and Temari,after that he encounters garaa and used the chiddori twice again and then a third time.
I mean did sasuke eat some food and sleep while chaseing temari and kankuro?
how could he regain all of hes chakara while chaseing someone?
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he used the seal that Oro gave him that gave him the chakra to do it again.
Overall very good episode. Too bad next one will be mainly flashbacks, can't wait to see Naruto beat up Gaara and I hope Sasuke remains conscious long enough to see Naruto beat someone that Sasuske himself could not. That would be most satisfying [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
The Cursed Seal doesn't have its own chakra supply so when he uses the cursed seal hes just using his own chakra but hes just burning it really quickly which is why its also dangerous. At least thats the way I saw it, I don't see how the cursed seal can have its own chakra.
The giant frog Jiraiya summons to fight the snakes is NOT Gamabunta, it's just another big frog. If you watch, it has a smooth head, which Gamabunta definitely doesn't have. Also, Gamabunta always seems to have a pipe in his mouth. If you watch the first episode, you can see that the Fourth Hokage summoned Gamabunta to fight, just like Naruto summoned him to save his life.
I'm pretty sure that Jiraiya *can* summon Gamabunta - he just needs a really, really, REALLY good reason, otherwise Gamabunta will be pissed off at him and just whomp him or something, hehe. That and even if he summons him, he can't control him. At least, not like the Fourth probably could...
It seems like the cursed seal is just a portal for chakra transfer; if Sasuke uses the seal, he can siphon chakra from Orochimaru. However, if the seal breaks completely, then Orochimaru can take over his body. Kakashi strengthened the seal with Sasuke's will, but since it's based on Saskue's own will, if he wants it broken, it will break.
The seal that Naruto has is more like an actual seal in the way we think of it - it's holding Kyuubi as a prisoner inside his body. If there is an even number of seals, the prison completely walls off Naruto's chakra from the Kyuubi's chakra. However, if there's an odd number, then they aren't blocked off completely, and they start to intermingle. If the seal is completely broken, then the Kyuubi comes out, and I'm thinking he either takes over Naruto's body, or Naruto dies in the process. Without the seals to block the Kyuubi's power, Naruto would be completely overwhelmed, and wouldn't be able to maintain control.
That's my take on it, anyway...
I still wonder where Lee is.. I doubt that Gai just let him fall to the ground in his condition when Kabuto does the genjutsu thingy.. They could atleast drawn something like Gai take him in his arms and put him in a safe spot..
Well, the seal Naruto has on the Kyuubi is an eight seal isn't it? But when Orochimaru put a 5 seal on it, it became 13, and he couldn't use the extra Chakra. But when Jiraiya took the 5 seal off, it was 8 again, and he could use the Kyuubi's Chakra like his own. So maybe your theory is on the right track, but still has some work.Originally posted by: Inquisitor77
The seal that Naruto has is more like an actual seal in the way we think of it - it's holding Kyuubi as a prisoner inside his body. If there is an even number of seals, the prison completely walls off Naruto's chakra from the Kyuubi's chakra. However, if there's an odd number, then they aren't blocked off completely, and they start to intermingle. If the seal is completely broken, then the Kyuubi comes out, and I'm thinking he either takes over Naruto's body, or Naruto dies in the process. Without the seals to block the Kyuubi's power, Naruto would be completely overwhelmed, and wouldn't be able to maintain control.
I can see how you would think that, but then again Sasuke's seal is three, plus the whatever number Kakashi put on top of it.
mainva | aptigo | JTD out
OK, I think my memory is shot, because what I remember and how it's explained in the episode are different... =P
The way it's explained in the translation is as follows:
There are two Shishou-Fuin (Four-Symbol Seals), making it a Hakke-Fuin (Eight-Trigram Seal). This is done so that the Kyuubi's chakra will flow from the two Shishou-Fuin back into Naruto's chakra.
I'm guessing that doing this allows them to intermingle evenly and at a controlled rate, so Kyuubi's charak doesn't overwhelm Naruto and kill him.
Orochimaru put a Gogyo-Fuin (Five Element Seal) on top of the two Shishou-Fuin (aka Hakke-Fuin), causing the flow of the Kyuubi's chakra from the Shishou-Fuin into Naruto's body to become uncontrolled/unstable.
This is why Naruto couldn't control his chakra well enough to stand on the water - the flow from his own chakra and the Kyuubi's chakra was unregulated.
Once Jiraiya opened Orochimaru's Gogyo-Fuin ("released" it, making it go away), it allowed the chakra to have a controlled flow again, letting Naruto use it more easily. That's why afterward he was able to walk on the water without trying nearly as hard.
I'm not sure how the odd/even thing works, but it seems to me like having odd-numbers on odd-numbers is ok, and even-numbers on even-numbers (maybe just having an overall sum of an even number is ok? hehe), but odd + even seals is a big no no...
Later on, Jiraiya talks about how even though Naruto has a controlled flow of chakra from the Kyuubi again, his body rejects it because it's "too small" to hold all that chakra, and doesn't want to place itself under too much stress. He then goes on to talk about teaching Naruto how to unleash and use all that power, even if his body doesn't want to, and finishes with something like "Nothing personal, Fourth Hokage." If you ask me, this implies that he's teaching Naruto to do something that the Fourth didn't want him to do - namely, become aware of the Kyuubi within him (since no one is supposed to talk about it) and use its chakra when he wants to.
That seems like a reasonable theory; very solid evolution from Inquisitors' theory. Since it was an eight-seal and then a five-seal would make it a 13-seal. And since he couldn't use the Kyuubi's power properly, apparently the even seals will allow his Chakra to mix with the Kyuubi's.
However, there is the question of how much of the Kyuubi's Chakra Naruto can actually use. If he is somehow able to extract ALL of the Kyuubi's Chakra, wouldn't the Kyuubi be able to break free from the seal or something? Just something I was wondering, since he can use the Kyuubi's Chakra, but I wanted to know if there was a limit to his power with the seal on him.
mainva | aptigo | JTD out
regarding the number of times sasuke uses the chidori, i think it is 5. he uses it once on gaara in the stadium to break through the shell of sand, he uses it again to take his hand out of the shell of sand.(there was a flash of blue light when he pulled his hand out of the shell), he used it 3 times fighting garra in the forest(i think it was 3). 2 times without the seal and once with it. im not sure how he did it more than 2 times with out the seal, but i thought the seal was a chakra amplification jutsu and i can see how that would enable him to do it more than twice in a day. as for the naruto seal, even numbered seal lets the kyubi's chakra mix evenly with naruto's chakra and odd seals make the mix uneven. so he cant use his chatora correctly. (chatora????hmmmm.....)
I'm sure if he actually used it five times, he wouldn't be alive for Naruto to save him. He used it three times. When did they say you had to just let go of the Chidori once you hit the target? Sasuke didn't let the Chakra go immediately after hitting the sand sphere, he held it, to cause maximum damage, and then made it form around his arm to pull his arm out.Originally posted by: Goobermeister
regarding the number of times sasuke uses the chidori, i think it is 5. he uses it once on gaara in the stadium to break through the shell of sand, he uses it again to take his hand out of the shell of sand.(there was a flash of blue light when he pulled his hand out of the shell), he used it 3 times fighting garra in the forest(i think it was 3). 2 times without the seal and once with it. im not sure how he did it more than 2 times with out the seal, but i thought the seal was a chakra amplification jutsu and i can see how that would enable him to do it more than twice in a day.
The second and third were in the forest.
mainva | aptigo | JTD out
He used Chidori four times..
1. Charged Gaara's shell and busted through it, striking his shoulder. All the pretty sparklies are gone, only his hand on his now-bloodied shoulder.
2. After standing and basking in satisfaction at having penetrated Gaara's "absolute" defense for a couple minutes, Gaara begins to go nuts. Sasuke panics and tries to pull his arm out (in that state, he couldn't have had enough concentration to keep the Chakra build-up in his hand without losing it), realizes it's stuck and re-activates Chidori to cut it out (Right in time).
3. Sasuke and Gaara charge eachother from their respective perches on tree branches.. Sasuke slices through the transformed right arm, temporarily severing the sand.
4. Once more, Sasuke and Gaara fly at eachother, this time Sasuke knows he's going over his limit. Chidori begins to fail, but the cursed seal kicks in and forces more Chakra from him, keeping Chidori barely alive.. But enough to cut through the sand and again severs the transformed arm. Sasuke's down for the count with the cursed seal spreading over his body.
Only explanation I can think of is, for the extra shot, he got enough Chakra regenerated while chasing the three Sand kids most of the day and not using any, to allow for one extra shot of Chidori. In his flashbacks of training with Kakashi I'd assume he was trying to use the Chidori in a chain of successive use. Here, it was two, then goes most of the day chasing through the woods.. Squeaks out one more good one, then stretches himself over the limit for a weak fourth one.
~Chris
Edit:
By the way, about Sasuke's seal. I believe it works something like the 8 Gates. When the cursed seal activate it forces out more Chakra than the body wants to allow, past its limit. That's why in the woods, Sasuke became super-human briefly, until his Chakra was exhausted. And now, he can't move, cause he only had enough for that weakened Chidori, even with the cursed seal.
I see...So he used it four times.Originally posted by: ZakuHan
By the way, about Sasuke's seal. I believe it works something like the 8 Gates. When the cursed seal activate it forces out more Chakra than the body wants to allow, past its limit. That's why in the woods, Sasuke became super-human briefly, until his Chakra was exhausted. And now, he can't move, cause he only had enough for that weakened Chidori, even with the cursed seal.
Maybe Kakashi should've taught Sasuke about the 8 Gates, and tried to make him unlock a few of them. Since he has the speed and power, his body should certainly be able to open a few Gates to increase his speed and power. But whatever...
That makes me wonder, if the human body normally has 8 Gates, does that mean Naruto and Gaara have 16? Since they each have another being in them....
Also, I want them to continue the other fights and whatnot going on in the stadium! And I want Rock back! Let's see his Secondary Lotus again just because! I love that...
mainva | aptigo | JTD out
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