Shadow with in Shadow?

[itachi_]

As jing said, i think that it's required some light not only darkness to make some kind of shadow, dude it's logical though...

[Uberbaka]

To come to a conclusion we have to look at the nature of the Jutsu itself. What does it actually do?

It stretches -HIS- shadow. If it's dark, he has no shadow. He can't shape other shadows than his own. Hence light should be needed.

[The Kyubi Naruto]

Well do you consider the "absence of light" in that hole shikamaru used to be a shadow or just darkness?

I mean that solves everything! I don't think it's a shadow. I mean you'd have to consider everything a shadow if you did think otherwise.
But it doesn't seem he can use just everything to strech his shadow further. That would be totally supreme techicue. Think that shikamaru would stop a whole enemy village and then the rest would go and kill everyone. Too simple and easy, even a minute would be enough to asassinate the most important persons. But he was able to use the shadow made by the walls of the stadium to his advantage, I wonder what would have happened if it was cloudy. Would all the shadows been gone or would everything be shadow? And that leads to that if it doesn't then the shadow made by clouds is not a shadow after all. If it was then he could own everyone. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..... it would seem that the shadows in the Naruto world don't play on our rules.

Soooo..... no I don't think he can just use everything, but still I think that the "absence of light" in the hole is not a shadow, just my preference.

[pat-the-1337]

i saw a couple ppl say somthign like this, but im gonna say it again to clarify a little more.

a shadow is just the absence of light. and darkness is the absence of light, therefore a shadow is darkness. so if it was darkness, and no light, shikamaru would have endless posibilites with his jutsu.

[NoKKiE]

i do'nt know.. but i thought as long as he had a seperate shadow from his surroundings because he controls his own shadow and attaches it to other ones... if everything was a absence of light he would have no shadow of his own i think O_o

[Xollence]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pat-the-1337 @ Feb 17 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> a shadow is just the absence of light. and darkness is the absence of light, therefore a shadow is darkness. so if it was darkness, and no light, shikamaru would have endless posibilites with his jutsu. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Shadow is not just the absence of light. It&#39;s &quot;the rough image cast by an object blocking rays of illumination&quot;.

[Dreamer]

but remember when Naruto Punched Gaara, SHika moved like he was punched. He may not get hit, but if the people who he attachs the clone to get hit or move in a certain way, he&#39;ll move in that direction. Also, he does have a limited amount of voluem of shadow to move with, and there is shadows of others to expand with, but that&#39;s about it. He can&#39;t attack using the Shadow Imitation or anything, it can only trap and stall enemies

[itsgalf]

what? I still don&#39;t understand why darkness wouldn&#39;t be considered a shadow.

Darkness is just the shadow of the earth, since the other side of the earth is blocking the sun&#39;s light.

[Shinji Ikari]

Since shadow is only darkness, it exists everywhere. No matter how you look at it, the light isn&#39;t something that creates &quot;white&quot; places, and that would mean that even in light, there is darkness. And that is common sence... So this jutsu iteslf is nothing to speculate about since it doesn&#39;t work with basic logic.

But then, let us say that the sun is the ultimate source of light, then he could use it everywhere at night-time since the sun has gone down by then.

[boomorman]

In absolute darkness the enemy wouldn’t be casting a shadow...... so the tech would have nothing to bind onto so it wouldn&#39;t work. If shik went late in the evening or early in the morning ya it could be quite powerful…(temari even explained this during their fight) Also as he gets older and gets more chakra he’ll be able to make it go further even in the presence of light, but Gaara or shino would still spank him. He couldn’t stop all of the sand or all the bugs. (guessing on the bugs)there isn

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itsgalf @ Feb 17 2004, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> what? I still don&#39;t understand why darkness wouldn&#39;t be considered a shadow.

Darkness is just the shadow of the earth, since the other side of the earth is blocking the sun&#39;s light. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ah yes, but that would be an &quot;attached shadow&quot;.....the kind that shikamaru controls are &quot;cast shadows&quot; (I learned this recently in Field production )

[pavi]

arg. ino said there is always a shadow within a shadow
when its &#39;nighttime&#39;, all thats happening is the earth is emittin a shadow, but everything else still has a shadow within the shadow of the earth
so at night, yes, shika would be invincible.

think about it like this. if shika cant use it at night, then y wouldnt temari (by tactics) try to get into the huge shadow made by the wall? if she did, then shika wouldnt be able to get her &quot;non-existant shadow&quot;. the answer, cause her shadow still exists and he wouldve still caught her

[SirCharlesIII]

i think the point is this: if there were complete pitch darkness he wouldnt be able to do anything as neither he nor andyone else has a shadow.

but

there never is complete pitch and so there are always slight shadows.

[Xollence]

I think he can only use it when there is light. Because if it just pitch black dark, then there is no real shadow, and he wouldn&#39;t be able to see.

[To Young]

Here is my personal thought about shika ability.

Keeping in mind properties of real world shadows, and that Naruto is a fantasy / ninja show.

In regards to shika, I will categorize the shadow in to two groups

Shika’s Chakra Shadow:
Natural Shadow:


Shika’s Chakra Shadow: This is an artificial shadow he makes by molding his charka. That is way he can twist, turn and stretch it. He can make this shadow regardless of amount of light present ( because it is made of charka)

Natural Shadow: Natural shadow is complete or partial absence of light. And it must be opposite side of light source (just like any normal shadow)


Natural shadow has the property of boosting shika’s chakra shadow ( as seen in tamari vs shika). When the parachute’s natural shadow appears, it gives boost to charka shadow and charka shadow takes off and stretches even more.

While it is true that at night time in complete absence of light (natural shadow) will give a big boost to Chakra shadow. Still there is limit to how much chakra Shika has, and how far can he stretch it. Not to mention he has to see is opponent to attach his chakra shadow to him.


This is best I came up with for shadow within a shadow thing.

[Assertn]

even the stars emit some sort of light, so the only way for there to be complete darkness anyway would be with some sort of jutsu......or maybe inside a building with no windows and lights or something

[Cyan]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (To Young @ Feb 18 2004, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Not to mention he has to see is opponent to attach his chakra shadow to him. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If this is true we don&#39;t have an expample in the episodes of this. Also in the last one he couldn&#39;t see the guy in the tree, he only knew where he&#39;d need to stretch the shadow.

Otherwise most of what you said makes sense.

[BakaShinji]

Mmm. makes sense. Chakra shadow.

Something about his shadow though... does it really hurt himself?

i.e. Kim hit her head on a wall - and shika didn&#39;t get hurt
i.e. Shika threw 8 kunais and stars at the sound - which in essense would have hurt himself...

yet Naruto punching Gaara hurt Shika that&#39;s stupid&#33;

i think the animators messed up royally here... I don&#39;t think it&#39;s supposed to hurt himself when his bound enemies get hurt. his shadow skill isn&#39;t like ino&#39;s mind control skill.

there is the possibility that shika unbound his shadow on kim, and planned on doing it to the sound nins the moment before the kunais hit - but we didn&#39;t see that.

also if he does get hurt from opponent injuries, that would mean what happens to opponents happen to him. In essense someone could have picked up dosu and shika would have moved along without any control - a pretty stupid skill if you ask me.

Stupid cartoons&#33; make me think too much&#33;&#33;&#33;

[RockLeeisHOT]

light cannot exist without the darkness.... and vice versa hehe. This is an interesting topic ^^

[Everon]

Lol that &quot;manga&quot; page is funny. I especially love the detail you added to shikamaru.