Kishimoto has hinted at a lot of possibilities for Kabuto, and he may well be something much more powerful and manipulative than anyone imagines at this point. Don't assume too much either way, but I believe that he will probably turn out to be more powerful than previously understood, and also has a good chance at turning into a good guy.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well, who's to say, Itachi couldn't easily copy AND avoid everything Kabuto throws at him? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well, who's to say, that he could?
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As for how good Itachi is at taijutsu, there is no direct evidence, but in the flashback you should recall that Itachi is said to be EXTREMELY skilled with a shuriken, so much so that even Sasuke at a very young age noticed that Itachi's shuriken throwing was far superior to everyone else's, at least among the Uchiha.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Uh...Since when did skills at weapons handling equate skills at hand to hand combat?
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Before we found out Orochimaru's true intentions, what did we think his goal was? "I want Sasuke." Why? Who knew? It's just as strange as "I killed my own clan for some reason." </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
He wants Sasuke, because he's obsessed with collecting jutsus. And whats good for that? Sharingan.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Again, look how much trouble they've gone to just in trying to get Sasuke. Now look at how much more powerful Itachi is compared to Sasuke, and he doesn't even have an entire village backing him! </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I'm pretty sure the manga mentions his thirst for revenge against the 3rd, as he believes that he shoulda been chosen instead of the 4th as the next hokage. He was also hellbent on destroying the Leaf itself, hence the giant snakes and the village sacking. Sasuke is not his only goal. If it had been, he coulda just sent his 4 nins anytime and took him.
I understand that everyone on this board is speculating, and that bias does come into effect because things can go either way, but please use some common sense and consider all angles and conceive plausible support before dumping all your hopes unto that one cool character.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well, who's to say, that he could?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Neither side has direct evidence, but I feel that saying Itachi would have the advantage has the benefit of more evidence, seeing as Itachi didn't retreat just because Gai came around. Furthermore, if Kakashi is supposed to be evenly matched with Gai, and Kabuto is supposed to be on Kakashi's level, and Gai is CLEARLY the top taijutsu user of these three, then I doubt that Kabuto could do anything. It would probably take someone like Hyuuga Hiashi to REALLY give Itachi pause. Again, no concrete evidence, but my evidence is slightly harder than your's.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Uh...Since when did skills at weapons handling equate skills at hand to hand combat?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
There's basic things like hand-eye coordination, so again, this is merely the closest evidence we've had.
Oh, actually, I forgot the other, better evidence for Itachi's hand-to-hand ability.
He CAUGHT the Chidori. He didn't dodge it, or anything, he just grabbed Sasuke's arm. While this doesn't say THAT much, as Kakashi could probably catch it as well, it semed like Itachi did it with no effort whatsoever.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>He wants Sasuke, because he's obsessed with collecting jutsus. And whats good for that? Sharingan.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Hey wow, thanks for missing my point. BEFORE THE ATTACK ON LEAF we did not know Orochimaru's TRUE intentions. When all we saw from him, he wanted Sasuke for some mysterious reason. This is no different from Itachi, who has the mysteries of "Why did Itachi kill his clan" and "Why does Akatsuki want Kyuubi?" It is no different aside from the issue of time. RIGHT NOW, Orochimaru is the more fleshed-out villain because, well, he's had practically an entire arc to work from behind the scenes. Itachi has appeared once. We can't merely dismiss Itachi until we find out his true intentions.
So give it time.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm pretty sure the manga mentions his thirst for revenge against the 3rd, as he believes that he shoulda been chosen instead of the 4th as the next hokage. He was also hellbent on destroying the Leaf itself, hence the giant snakes and the village sacking. Sasuke is not his only goal. If it had been, he coulda just sent his 4 nins anytime and took him.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I can concede this point to some extent, but there is the issue of Orochimaru still not getting Itachi regardless. Orochimaru could have easily sent the Sound 4 after Itachi, and they could have created a barrier to block him all the same, a barrier that can stop even a Hokage.
Actually, now that I think about it, it could be that Itachi simply doesn't have the qualities that Orochimaru can exploit mentally. I doubt Orochimaru could convince Itachi to look for power like he does Sasuke, so Itachi probably has the psychological advantage.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I understand that everyone on this board is speculating, and that bias does come into effect because things can go either way, but please use some common sense and consider all angles and conceive plausible support before dumping all your hopes unto that one cool character.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Heh, I hope this wasn't directed at me at all, but yeah this is good advice to EVERYONE on this board. The opposite is also true. Don't just dump all of your hate onto one character.
All this is about is establishing that Itachi is an INCREDIBLY strong character, and the chances of Itachi helping out Orochimaru as a vessel or whatever are slim to nil. Let's just say that MAYBE Kabuto could take on Itachi. Extremely unlikely, but let's just say yes for a moment. Not only would Kabuto have to deal with Itachi, he'd probably have to deal with Kisame, and possibly even the rest of Akatsuki. The only more stupid thing he could do is to figure out how to release Kyuubi and then fight it with a bar of soap.
here's a good one
Kabuto = secret leader of Akatsuki
STOP GUESSING plzzzz
And NOOOO DONT LET KABUTO BECOME STRONGER DANT THE THREE.
Why am i yelling aboute this points so badly.
It wil become to much dbz and i hate dbz. People plz dont get mad cuz I hate dbz
but this is my opinion.
It is like when you just see someone strong you get someone stronger
and so on. And after this the head caracter or goodguy has to become lvl 100000000000000.
Edit :
Azumanga daioh rules and hotsuma youre avatar rules
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hotsuma @ Dec 20 2003, 08:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When somebody admits that another is better, do we need a fight to prove it? Kakashi was scared to death of Oro in that sealing area, and scolded himself for trying to rise against Oro. Do we need a fight to prove that Kakashi would have gotten his ass kicked? The point here is, once somebody admits it, there's really no way to bend it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
You brought up a very good point. Compare how scared Kakashi was with Oro, then with Itachi. Kakashi was extremely scared of Oro, but was williing to fight Itachi with relative ease (no shaking or trembling). I believe that Oro is stronger than Itachi. I can't wait for a fight between them, since Oro left Akatsuki, there will probably be one.
Kabuto really is a dark horse right now. He's like a double agent. He plays Oro's right hand man, but probably reports to some other agency (e.g. akatsuki). This way they can keep tabs on all their enemies.
Can't wait for everything to be revealed.
I remember writing a bit on this Itachi vs Kabuto thing before on another thread. Summarizing, it's going to be pretty hard to fight sombody who can copy/see through all your jutsus and immobolize you with any form of slight eye contact. He's also a very composed fighter who can think on the battlefield as well.
And I have no idea why people keep on saying Kakashi is afraid of Oro and not Itachi. It's self-evident that Kakashi only backed off due to Oro's fear jutsu. Hasn't the Kakashi-recalling-past theory been debunked enough times already?
Back to talking about 198, I'm glad that the translation gives a totally different impression on Neji's situation. There's still a chance for him to live after recalling...well...being told to live.
The key point in realizing how much more powerful Itachi is than Orochimaru is that Orochimaru said that it was IMPOSSIBLE to get Itachi.
IMPOSSIBLE.
Look at how many resources he put into attacking Konoha in order to get Sasuke. It's like everything for the past 10 years or so has been about this. The entire sound village, the alliance with the Sand, loyal troops like Kabuto and the Sound 4, Orochimaru has all of this... and he still said it was IMPOSSIBLE to get Itachi. Not highly unlikely, not barely a chance in hell, but IMPOSSIBLE.
i dont know what you're reading but he never said that. ever.
he said if only 'Uchihas heir was here with us' or something along those lines
he never said it was impossible, dont make up lines lol
if he did then that translation was wrong.
Itachi is only stronger then Orochimaru because of the jutsus Orochimaru uses.
Kabuto is more hand to hand then Orochimaru so it would a more even battle, we havent seen any hand to hand from Itachi at all, so far hes just been jutsu copying and thats it.
And when a situation came up where it was hand to hand he retreated.
If it honestly says 'impossible' then post that page because whoever translated it did it wrong
You're doing the exact same thing you claim Hotsuma (?) to be doing in regards to Neji x Hinata.
You are ignoring how much they have set up Itachi to be a threat. If Kabuto really could just "get" Itachi, he would have done so already.
The best Taijutsu user so far in the series is probably Gai, and even Gai, while Itachi said to Kisame not to underestimate him, would probably not be able to beat Itachi. As has been said, Itachi mastered the Sharingan when he was 7 (or 8?) and became leader of the ANBU at 13. This means a hell of a lot. You are only assuming that the reason Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru is because Orochimaru relies so much on jutsu. Well, who's to say, Itachi couldn't easily copy AND avoid everything Kabuto throws at him? And certainly, Kabuto is a lot worse than Gai at taijutsu.
As for how good Itachi is at taijutsu, there is no direct evidence, but in the flashback you should recall that Itachi is said to be EXTREMELY skilled with a shuriken, so much so that even Sasuke at a very young age noticed that Itachi's shuriken throwing was far superior to everyone else's, at least among the Uchiha.
It's kind of like claiming that the Byakugan doesn't work because sometimes Neji still turns his head side ways or moves his pupils, and for something that is near 360 degree that shouldn't happen. Yes, that might be something superficial added to not make it seem as weird, but it doesn't discount the Byakugan.
I can see what you're trying to get at, with Orochimaru having this crazy motive and all, and us knowing barely a thing about Itachi, but it's all a matter of time. Before we found out Orochimaru's true intentions, what did we think his goal was? "I want Sasuke." Why? Who knew? It's just as strange as "I killed my own clan for some reason."
As for the impossible thing, I might not be remembering it correctly, but I remember the line to be, "If only Itachi was with us, I wouldn't have to go through all this trouble. But that is impossible...because he is even stronger than me." If I'm mistaken, then I apologize, but really, if Orochimaru or Kabuto could have gotten Itachi then they would have. Again, look how much trouble they've gone to just in trying to get Sasuke. Now look at how much more powerful Itachi is compared to Sasuke, and he doesn't even have an entire village backing him!
The only possible point I see is if Orochimaru believed that Itachi wouldn't be able to handle a cursed seal, but I doubt Orochimaru could get one on Itachi before Itachi kicked his ass so hard he'd have to wipe the stains off of his face with his sealed arms.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (forkshy @ Dec 22 2003, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> here's a good one
Kabuto = secret leader of Akatsuki </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i like that one... he was a left over child of some war with the leaf right? maybe he wants revenge... or the enemy is really not done, and left a child to create chaos.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (snowball @ Dec 23 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I just had a cool idea, what if kabuto has a ancient bloodline and thats what the cursed seal is based on. That would explaine why hes so scared of it awakening. If he has a blood based version of the seal im shure its much more powerfull than the copy version that oro uses. (just a idea)
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i don't think that there are any bloodlines that base themselves on killing the person with the blood... it doesn't sound right.
sure, there are gentic deases and stuff, but bloodlines in naruto usually mean good powers, not 'let's go and suicide' stuff, though there might be one like that...
about the 'my old blood' thing, he wasn't scared-scared, he was worried that if he starts fighting he'll enjoy it too much and show his true self, and the fact he isn't a normal genin...
one last thing that was bothering me for a few weeks, what if Gai can't open the eight gates? we all think he can becuase he taught Lee how to open five, but if you consider the dialouge between gai and Kakashi about the gates, it reasonable to beleive that Gai can't even reach the 5th gate, and that's why Kakashi consideres Lee a genius, cuz he surpassed his master in such a short time...
about Taijutsu- the top users of taijutsu seem to be Gai and Hiashi, gai cuz we've seen he's speed several times, and Hiashi cuz the gentle fist thing... Kabuto is nowhere among them, he admitted that his Taijutsu skill aren't that great, and we've seen him rellying on decreasing the enemy's power rather than overcoming them (cutting tsunda's muscle to stop her inhuman strentgh and doing that elctrical thing to Shinzune and Naruto). Itachi is a mystery, we know he's faster than Kakashi, but we don't know how he can go against Gai (it's possible that he retreated cuz he didn't want them to know he's slower than Gai).
about nin and genjutsu, not much to say here... the sharingan thing pretty much means he has to be 133t (elite) in those two fields, we've seen him doing counter genjutsu and black fire thingy, so he can rival the hokage and other people with jutsus, at least that i can say.
BTW: Kakashi also cought a chidori attack from Sasuke and the rasengan, so it doesn't mean much when comparing it with others...
sig made by Itachi-y2k5, thanks, dude!
Currently Watching: probably a show directed at 9 years old girls, lets be honest.
You know the important distinction between Batman and me? Batman is fictional. In real life, there isn't always an alternative.
itachi can beat them all.
even the kimimoro guy or whatever his name is.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (forkshy @ Dec 22 2003, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> here's a good one
Kabuto = secret leader of Akatsuki </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
yes...I think this is so
Kabuto's bloodline ability hasn't been shown yet so he's a darkhorse. It is possible (very unlikely but not denyed by the manga) that Oro and Kabuto can beat Itachi. However it was said in the manga that Sasuke has more potential. This probably doesn't mean sharingan so i'm guessing this is in terms of Chakra. Its very likely then to assume that they want sasuke because he's a easier target and once oro is controlling his body, then sasuke will be better than Itachi(wel once the sharingan is mastered)
And i'm absolutely sure Gai can open the 8 gates. and kakashi was only willing to fight Itachi because he was saving his friends, he had more resistance to Itachi's sharingan hyponotic jutsu, and he knew Gai would show up. Against Oro it was just him and Oro, and he just used a high chakra jutsu to seal the cursed seal. Also nobody at the time in the village had a good matchup against Oro(who uses brute chakra strength)
Personally i think Itachi can beat Oro one on one, but if Oro put his resources together he might have a chance of getting Itachi. Btw he wouldn't have to fight hte whole organization, it said somewhere they travel in pairs or triplets.
Maybe not the leader, but a member at least.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Death BOO Z @ Dec 23 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> BTW: Kakashi also cought a chidori attack from Sasuke and the rasengan, so it doesn't mean much when comparing it with others... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
didnt he just grab their wrists and deflect the blows into those strategicly placed big metal things? i doubt he can catch a chidori or rasegan, if sasuke has mastered chidori, and chidori cut lightning once....i doubt kakashi'd hand could take it
kakashi did just push the atacks away, and that makes a lot more sense than him trying to catch the atack even if he could survive it.
is 199 comin even though it's xmas weekend?
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