Chapter 198 Discussion

[Destroyor]

The "Ultimate" evil isn't Orochimaru. That title should go to the leader of Akatsuki, the one that ordered Itachi to retrieve Naruto.

[Insomniac]

i dont know why people would assume that the leader of Atasuki is someone stronger then everyone, Gattou was Zabuzas leader and we all know he was a weakling.
Also ordering someone to kidnap someone isnt as bad as experimenting on them the way Orochimaru did, as far as we know at the moment he is the 'evil', we cant make assumptions on people we've heard NOTHING about.

Also Atasuki doesnt seem to have a ascending command line, they're probably a democracy on their decisions

[hoob]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 21 2003, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i dont know why people would assume that the leader of Atasuki is someone stronger then everyone, Gattou was Zabuzas leader and we all know he was a weakling.
Also ordering someone to kidnap someone isnt as bad as experimenting on them the way Orochimaru did, as far as we know at the moment he is the &#39;evil&#39;, we cant make assumptions on people we&#39;ve heard NOTHING about.

Also Atasuki doesnt seem to have a ascending command line, they&#39;re probably a democracy on their decisions </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If I remember correctly, Gatou wasn&#39;t Zabusa&#39;s leader, he was just a client of Zabusa&#39;s wasn&#39;t he? If so, then it wouldn&#39;t mean anything, cause yea, Zabusa seemed like he had no leader by then.

[Insomniac]

client, leader whatever, i just meant that Gattou controled what he did.
Gattou told Zabuza what to do but he wasnt stronger
its probably the thing if Atasuki has a leader, Itachi is working for him for a reason other then hes stronger.

[Nine Tailed Demon]

Arguing over opinions where everyone thinks they&#39;re right...

[Blight]

I wonder it seems that in the near future oro will be takeing a new body, and he seems bloody minded about getting sasukes body. and it seems oro is running out of time to change bodies

so oro has a few options

take the body from the winner fighting in the pit

or wait for sasuke, if he waits for sasuke. it means eather sasuke or oro has to die at that point, since sasuke has oro&#39;s curse i dont think sasuke can beat oro, would be a point that kuboto would turn sides. theres also a possablity where 2 souls one body, but that would be silly

anyway i assume that this thread wont happen for awhile as it goes back to the last 2 sound nins for a good 10 eps or more

[Insomniac]

thats what a discussion is
whats the point of a discussion where no one believes what they&#39;re saying? lol

[Nine Tailed Demon]

Well then I&#39;ll gurantee you the body being brought by Kabuto will not be Itachi. The strongest person in the manga, IMO, will be the leader of Akatsuki.

I think the body will be the winner of the battle in the prison...

[Hotsuma]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 21 2003, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> he may seem stronger but hes definatly not a greater threat then Orochimaru, for Itachi to survive longer then Orochimaru there would have to be a miracle, Orochimaru has been identified as the &#39;bad&#39; guy and Itachi is merely the goal. Goals are meant to be reached, he will be defeated a long time before characters like Orochimaru.

Itachi simply killed his clan, i dont know why hes seen as a mysterious character - all we&#39;re trying to find out is why he did it.
Kabuto we know nothing about, other then he constantly supresses how strong he really is.
Orochimaru has been identified as the evil, he experiments on living beings from his own village and has no regard for life at all. Whatever plot you can think up for Itachi will not even reach Orochimarus creepy and weirdness, you dont see Itachi with a snake tounge do you?

Kabuto isnt gay, he serves someone who he probably sees as a father, do you have sexual thoughts about your father? Father and son occasionally threaten each other and have fights, but when it comes down to it they still care about each other. I&#39;m guessing Orochimaru took in Kabuto after he was the sole survivor and treated him like his son.

We dont have the authors word for it we have the translators word for it, unless you&#39;ve talked to him about it. Jiraiya didnt piss his pants when he saw the fire, he was intregied and he sealed it with ease seconds later.
Kakashi was never shaking when he first met Itachi, against Orochimaru he was shitting his pants, so he obviously knows more then we do about what they&#39;re both capable of.

my point is, even though Itachi may have been identified as stronger it doesnt mean he&#39;d walk over anyone unless it made sense to the plot. Orochimaru wouldnt lose to Itachi because hes the &#39;ultimate evil&#39; of Naruto, there is no other source for this great an evil and Itachi cant really replace it.

Itachi is disposable, Orochimaru isnt.
(if you&#39;re wondering what this has to do with this chapter, its just adding to my possibility of Kabuto bringing back Itachi&#39;s body, it IS a possibility, greater then most. Excuse me for thinking of possible storylines that would add interesting situations) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Who cares if Oro is a greater threat? Itachi can kick his ass, anyday of the week. ORO SAID IT HIMSELF. You can argue all you want - I don&#39;t know with what, though. You have nothing.

Oro has some weird fetishes. And a snake tongue - who cares? He said, with everything he had, that Itachi was stronger. What did he say that puts him in a superior spot to Itachi? Nothing.

And, yes. We do have the authors word. It&#39;s called the manga itself. You can&#39;t really say that it was mistranslated, can you? Hey, maybe everything we&#39;ve been reading was wrong&#33;

Kakashi was too, pissing his pants, when he was up against Itachi. He knew that would be a downhill battle. Only difference between this, and Oro was that Oro was arrogant enough to walk away from a Chidori-wielding Kakashi.

I&#39;ll admit. Oro is a better villain Itachi. Does that make him stronger? No.

Man, you must really hate Itachi, heh. I enjoy people who try to bend concrete words into their own versions, because they hate somebody and love another.

You are excused for making bonehead outcomes where your fandom of Oro makes a pathetic argument against the authors official words (or MAYBE it was mistranslated&#33. Kabuto bringing back Itachi&#39;s body? Please. A greater possibility than what?

[Insomniac]

oh please this from someone who thinks that Hinata and Neji would be a good couple.
I would think you would be more tolerent of other peoples opinions but obviously you&#39;re just ignorant.
I didnt say that he was stronger then him in my last post did i? i said he was the better villian
which you admitted.

i never said i hated Itachi either, i&#39;m just not a fanboy of every single strong character.
I was saying that it was possible because even though hes strong doesnt mean he&#39;ll win if the time arouse

and no i&#39;m not a fan of Orochimaru either, i gave a possible storyline a chance.
If you want to flame me for that you&#39;re showing not only your lack of maturity but your closed mindedness.

[Hotsuma]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 21 2003, 08:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> oh please this from someone who thinks that Hinata and Neji would be a good couple.
I would think you would be more tolerent of other peoples opinions but obviously you&#39;re just ignorant.
I didnt say that he was stronger then him in my last post did i? i said he was the better villian
which you admitted.

i never said i hated Itachi either, i&#39;m just not a fanboy of every single strong character.
I was saying that it was possible because even though hes strong doesnt mean he&#39;ll win if the time arouse

and no i&#39;m not a fan of Orochimaru either, i gave a possible storyline a chance.
If you want to flame me for that you&#39;re showing not only your lack of maturity but you&#39;re closed mindedness. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Don&#39;t even bring in the Neji and Hinata thing.

Your entire argument in this discussion was that what Oro said might not necassarily be true. What basis do you have on this? Nothing. You were making it seem like the better villain is the stronger character. If not put into words, it was certainly implied. The DISCUSSION was Itachi being stronger, and YOU doubting it.

I&#39;m going to be blunt here. Everything you have, is crap. You have NO BASIS in this argument. You&#39;re going against the authors word (his manga) of Oro being weaker than Itachi, and you somehow bring in a nonsensical &quot;Well, Itachi isn&#39;t as good a villain&quot; Question to be for here, is &quot;Who cares?&quot;

I&#39;ll admit that I&#39;m not the most mature person here. I&#39;m far from it, in fact. When I see stupid crap like the stuff you mentioned, don&#39;t expect me to sit by idly and say &quot;Maybe so&quot;

[Insomniac]

thats your opinion, believe what you want but i&#39;m not going to waste my time trying to convince you

its just like how you were basing Neji x Hinata. your basis for that was &#39;he said she was cute when they were about 3 or 4&#39; and ignored everything thats happened since that.
You had no basis for that arguement.

I was saying that strength doesnt matter not that Orochimaru is stronger.
That was my arguement in the case of Kabuto bringing back Itachi&#39;s body, i&#39;m sorry if you missed that i but i dont think i should have to point out everything - maybe i should in the future for those who cant read and only focus on certain points.

i should stop trying to convince an Itachi fanboy of that though, you&#39;re probably still too amazed by him.

[tuggumkee]

the special thing about the sharingan is that it has more than sight, it can do hypnosis/ the other special attack itachi has. It&#39;s not nessicarily how strong they are, just how their jutsu&#39;s aline.

For example, Gai came and Itachi said lets go this will take to long. This isn&#39;t because Gai&#39;s stronger than Kakashi(well he could be if he opened up all 8 gates but thats not the point) but because Gai can fight with only the reflection from the water. also he doesn&#39;t use any jutsus.

Oro is probably scared of Itachi&#39;s hypnosis/whatever since he has no way to block it.

And i dont think the manga/anime will go into fighting Itachi&#39;s group, maybe in the OVA but i doubt it. the manga will probably end with the death of Oro, and not go into Itachi&#39;s organization.

And btw. i think from what we&#39;ve seen Oro is stronger, Itachi just has the hypnosis thing going for him, i doubt he has as much chakra as Oro. Oro can destroy a small village, and he&#39;s already killed 2 hokages with brute strength. Itachi&#39;s sharingan ability he can only use for like 4 people, then he gets tired. Oro is a better villan definatly

[Insomniac]

exactly its how the jutsus aline.
I never said that Orochimaru would defeat Itachi, i said that Kabuto could bring back his body.
Kabuto doesnt have the same style as Orochimaru.

someone else bought up the point that since Itachi was better then Orochimaru and Orochimaru was better then Kabuto that he couldnt.
which isnt completely true, why dont you read the whole topic first before replying Hotsuma

[Legato 2057]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tuggumkee @ Dec 21 2003, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And i dont think the manga/anime will go into fighting Itachi&#39;s group, maybe in the OVA but i doubt it. the manga will probably end with the death of Oro, and not go into Itachi&#39;s organization.

And btw. i think from what we&#39;ve seen Oro is stronger, Itachi just has the hypnosis thing going for him, i doubt he has as much chakra as Oro. Oro can destroy a small village, and he&#39;s already killed 2 hokages with brute strength. Itachi&#39;s sharingan ability he can only use for like 4 people, then he gets tired. Oro is a better villan definatly </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I have to disagree on these two points.

The manga will surely reach a conclusion with the Akatsuki. Kishimoto-san would not have had Sasuke betray the Leaf in order to become sronger, if he wasn&#39;t ging to use that power to fight Itachi.


While I do admit that Itachi hasn&#39;t &quot;kicked ass&quot; yet, and Orochimaru has, I don&#39;t think Itachi has shown all of his powers. After all, he did kill every member of his clan in a single night, so he has to have something besides the hyonotism thing.

[Insomniac]

it was said that Kabuto is at Kakashis level yes, but obviously hes above that to be able to take on Tsunade.
Look at the facts not just the words, Orochimaru said it not Kabuto. And judging by Kabutos &#39;old blood&#39; hes got alot of secrets hidden that havent even started to come out.

Also i dont think that Kabuto is just hanging around to learn that jutsu, hes probably seen it happen before, he also offered himself to Orochimaru as a body to take over - dont see why he&#39;d do that if he was planing to betray him.
As far as i can tell Kabuto is solid loyal for some reason, possibly more so then Haku was to Zabuza. Lets hope they make an OVA on his past or something, that&#39;d kick ass

[Nine Tailed Demon]

The Naruto movie will be about the legendary 3 senins, or atleast I hope so. Then OAVS on the sealing of Naruto and maybe one on Haku and Zabuza...

[Insomniac]

Haku and Zabuza have been resolved, theres nothing to OVA about them.
they had a whole arc about their past, theres not much else you can do.
anyway i&#39;m looking foward to seeing who makes it out of that pit, maybe it&#39;ll be someone we&#39;ve seen before.

[Jiraiy4]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>When somebody admits that another is better, do we need a fight to prove it? Kakashi was scared to death of Oro in that sealing area, and scolded himself for trying to rise against Oro. Do we need a fight to prove that Kakashi would have gotten his ass kicked? The point here is, once somebody admits it, there&#39;s really no way to bend it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

well you proved yourself wrong. Words don&#39;t mean nothing.

Orochimaru is scared of Itachi, but not Jiraiya.

Jiraiya is not afraid of Itachi nor Orochimaru.

Kakashi,Asuma,and Kurenai is DEAD afraid of Orochimaru, but they&#39;re not afraid of Itachi, though they&#39;ll admit he&#39;s stronger.

Kabuto is afraid of Jiraiya but not as much of Orochimaru and Tsunade.

Tsunade isn&#39;t scared of Jiraiya or Orochimaru.

Itachi and Kisame are not afraid of Orochimaru but they were of Jiraiya.

As you can see...nothing ever really connects with the shit everyone &quot;said&quot;

[Xceleration]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 20 2003, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> we know that he took a hit from rasengen and recovered and that he was beating Tsunade, one of the legendary three.
if you dont think Kabuto has it in him then what manga have you been reading

-insomaniac </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
About kabuto beating tsunade, he only beat her because she had a fear of blood at that time, and kabuto was taking advantage of that by cutting his own hand, and splashing blood on tsunade. Kabuto is obviously alot weaker then tsunade. Please take more factors into your judgements, Kabuto is no way at the level of the legendary 3, and he didnt recover from the rasengan, he even said his chakra wasn&#39;t sufficient for this level of damage. You obviously don&#39;t know how to read.