Fall Season 2024

[Death BOO Z]

I don't think we have any filled breads here either.
whole wheat, whole grain, spelt bread... baguettes and pita-breads and challah bread, but not anything that comes with flavour fillings.

we do have bread-based pastries (sweet and not-sweet).

[shinta|hikari]

I think filled breads are more of an Asian thing, even including South and South East Asia.

Japan has anpan, curry pan, cream pan, etc.
Hong Kong has pineapple bun, sausage bun, coconut bun, etc.
Taiwan has taro buns, pork floss buns, black pepper buns, etc.
China has steamed buns, xian bing, shen jiang baos, etc.
Philippines has coconut bread, asado roll, corned beef bread, etc.
India has a parathas, bread pakodas, kulchas, etc.

All of these are considered breads and are stuffed with savory or sweet fillings.

[MFauli]

I think filled breads are more of an Asian thing, even including South and South East Asia.

Japan has anpan, curry pan, cream pan, etc.
Hong Kong has pineapple bun, sausage bun, coconut bun, etc.
Taiwan has taro buns, pork floss buns, black pepper buns, etc.
China has steamed buns, xian bing, shen jiang baos, etc.
Philippines has coconut bread, asado roll, corned beef bread, etc.
India has a parathas, bread pakodas, kulchas, etc.

All of these are considered breads and are stuffed with savory or sweet fillings.

That's the issue, though: All (most?) of those aren't breads. They're snacks. They're 1-portion, handheld foods that you pick up and eat whole in one session.

A bread is something big that you cut off slices from, the stays with you for a couple days and that is a foundation for making dishes from it, whether that's a quick marmelade slice, a sandwhich, as a side for some main dish, or even as an ingredient for a proper main dish.

All those asian "breads" are really buns, intended for instant consumption. That's not the philosophy of bread.

[shinta|hikari]

It is bread according to the most popular definition in English, at least:

bread
/bred/
noun
1.
food made of flour, water, and yeast or another leavening agent, mixed together and baked.
"a loaf of bread"

Looks like as long as it has these components, it is bread. Buns, rolls, etc. fall under the umbrella of bread.

Your definition of "A bread is something big that you cut off slices from, the stays with you for a couple days and that is a foundation for making dishes from it," is a loaf of bread.

[Ryllharu]

So...American bread is bread in its ideal form? The perfect center of sweetened with otherwise unnecessary ingredients and packed with so many preservatives and stabilizers that a loaf of pre-sliced bread can last for over a month without going hard, stale, or developing mold. No other country can boast such longevity and still dare to call it bread.

[KrayZ33]

It is bread according to the most popular definition in English, at least:

bread
/bred/
noun
1.
food made of flour, water, and yeast or another leavening agent, mixed together and baked.
"a loaf of bread"

Looks like as long as it has these components, it is bread. Buns, rolls, etc. fall under the umbrella of bread.

Your definition of "A bread is something big that you cut off slices from, the stays with you for a couple days and that is a foundation for making dishes from it," is a loaf of bread.

the key word is "mixed together".
It's not "bread" if it's not mixed together but separated.. or rather it's "bread with X".
Curry buns are actually filled with curry. So it's not mixed together.
Melon bread on the other hand can be considered bread, although we Germans wouldn't eat it as such, but consider it a snack... but I'm sure asians don't put anything on it either.

In Germany we have "filled bread" as well, it's rather new, but it's not bread. "Handbrot" for example.
I guess the closest, but still different to actual bread would be "Kräuterbaguette", which is basically a variation of garlic bread, directly translated it means "herb bread/baguette" but I'm not sure if that's actually a thing elsewhere?

Either way, if you ignore the mixed together part:
You may as well call a wellington bread, or crossaints bread if you consider curry buns as "bread"
Or Pizza, which includes bread, but isn't classified as "bread"-bread. If that makes sense.


Btw... I've never tasted Melonpan, but what I THINK they'll taste similar to is
"Streuselbrötchen".
Which is awesome soft, sweet bakery in form of Brötchen/bread, which are snacks.
And then there is Milchbrötchen, which is different but also sweet and soft, but also just a snack.


edit:
If I'm not mistaken, to be considered bread, you are actually only allowed to have X% amount of fats and sugar vs wheat ratio. Something like that.
That's why crossaints is pastry and not bread, too much fat. (Same with donuts)

[MFauli]

It is bread according to the most popular definition in English, at least:

bread
/bred/
noun
1.
food made of flour, water, and yeast or another leavening agent, mixed together and baked.
"a loaf of bread"

Looks like as long as it has these components, it is bread. Buns, rolls, etc. fall under the umbrella of bread.

Your definition of "A bread is something big that you cut off slices from, the stays with you for a couple days and that is a foundation for making dishes from it," is a loaf of bread.

Buns aren't bread.

There's bread. And there's buns. Buns are for immediate consumption for a single person. Bread is there to stay.

That's why call bread "Brot" in Germany, and buns are "Semmeln". Different things.

Edit 1: WTF, Kray is German, too?!

Fake-Edit 2: WTF, he says "Brötchen" instead of "Semmel". OF COURSE >_>

[shinta|hikari]

I said the English definition, since we are conversing in English and discussing definitions. I'm sure Germans have a different way of defining bread, just like Asians do.

Croissants are not bread due to the high amount of fat. Those are considered pastries even in English. However, the items I did mention do not fall into the pastry category. They are simply stuffed bread.

As for melon pan, while the outside is a cookie dough crust, the inside is plain bread.

@Krayz - The mixed together part of the definition refers specifically to the "flour, water, and yeast or another leavening agent," not other ingredients that many breads do have.

I'm not trying to redefine anything by the way. Just google "Is melon pan bread?" and it says yes. BTW, pan in Japan literally means bread, exemplifying what I said was interesting, which is "Different cultures define foods differently."

To clarify, I understand Germans define bread differently, and that is also absolutely valid.

[KrayZ33]

@Krayz - The mixed together part of the definition refers specifically to the "flour, water, and yeast or another leavening agent," not other ingredients that many breads do have.

Not sure if we are talking about two different things here.

The definition is about how the dough is created.
Curry buns (they are buns anyway, not bread) are part bread + something else. Thus no longer bread.
Just like a pizza is part bread + something else.
It's the *exact* same thing with that dish.
You don't call pizza "bread" or a "bun", do you?


As mentioned, Melon buns probably taste similar to Streuselbrötchen, which is basically sweet bread.
Those at least are buns, and they can technically be made as bread although you wouldn't do that.


Even the english language seperates breads from buns btw.
With the same definition MFauli gave.
Not that it's important or anything. (I consider this discussion a meme)

[shinta|hikari]

I went through this before, but in English, buns are under the larger umbrella of bread. Wikipedia for Bun starts with this: "A bun is a type of bread roll, typically filled with savory fillings (for example hamburger)."

And this is the wikipedia entry for bread roll (bolding mine):
"A bread roll is a small, often round loaf of bread served as a meal accompaniment (eaten plain or with butter). A roll can be served and eaten whole or cut transversely and dressed with filling between the two halves. Rolls are also commonly used to make sandwiches similar to those produced using slices of bread. A bun is a small, sometimes sweet, bread, or bread roll. Though they come in many shapes and sizes, they are most commonly hand-sized or smaller, with a round top and flat bottom."

So in English, it is not a separate thing but more of a subclass.

As for the mixed together thing, this is what I was referring to:
image.png

The mixed together in the dictionary quote I wrote is specifically referring to the "flour, water, and yeast or another leavening agent," part of the definition. It is unrelated to what you wrote about having other stuff mixed in, like stuffing, etc. To be clear, that definition does not disqualify anything just because it isn't mixed together. It is simply specifying that the flour, water, and yeast/leavening agent are mixed.

As for pizza, the dough/crust is technically bread, but as a whole it is not. It is simply a pizza, just like how a hamburger has a bun, which is a bread in English as I specified above, but is not bread, and is instead called a hamburger.

I get why this can get confusing with the stuffed breads. The difference is kind of arbitrary, since even a calzone, which is essentially a stuffed bread dough, is NOT considered bread. English is super messy that way. To be clear, I am not saying this is the ideal state of bread definition, especially considering how confusing it can be, but it is indeed the current state. It is an observation on my part, not a prescription.

I imagine Germans have a much better and clearer classification, as you guys mentioned.