Sousou no Frieren

[Y]

It's not a "spoiler" that the character is duplicitous, though. Within minutes of meeting him Frieren tells the rest of the cast exactly what his deal is. You aren't gaining speed on the story by understanding his name. It's like saying the character in 101 Dalmatians obviously being named Cruel Devil is spoiling the movie for you.

Also, Lugner appears to be a real and well known actual last name, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lugner

Nominative determinism is a really common concept in fiction, and in anime and manga especially.

[DarthEnderX]

Nominative determinism is a really common concept in fiction, and in anime and manga especially.

Yes, but it's especially stupid when you don't want people to KNOW that you're the thing you're named after.

"I dunno why, Mr. Kidkill, but I don't feel like I can trust you to watch my kids."

Just maybe, Lord Liar is a bad name for your diplomat to have.

[Y]

The characters in the show don't speak German. They don't know his name means Liar.

Also, the whole point of Lugner's character is that you get suckered in by his delivery and panache even though logically everyone that lives in the setting knows he's lying. It's the same thing as the demon murderer child in the flashback. They KNOW it's evil and has no moral compass but buy into its performance.

[Kraco]

The only thing wrong about the name is that MFauli's native tongue is German and he's not amused anymore by random anime characters having German nouns as names. He said it himself: "I thought we were past the random use of German nouns in Japanese stories." That's all. Authors themselves have been playing with character names since the antiquity. A few stories take it to the ultimate extreme, like Goblin Slayer, where nobody has a name, only a title. That's a conscious choice by the author, as well.

This series is using nouns or adjectives as names at large, anyway. It might not be as deep as some other series (although maybe it is, and I'm just not paying enough attention), but it's there, nonetheless. Like Stark, whose name means strong/potent. He was actually first introduced as a coward, but he's also strong, whenever he's finally driven to the corner. Aura, the latest big demon, was basically all about the aura because her ultimate technique was based on whose mana pool is stronger, which usually is evident simply by measuring the aura a magician/demon emits. Relying on that was her downfall, though.

[MFauli]

The only thing wrong about the name is that MFauli's native tongue is German and he's not amused anymore by random anime characters having German nouns as names. He said it himself: "I thought we were past the random use of German nouns in Japanese stories." That's all. Authors themselves have been playing with character names since the antiquity. A few stories take it to the ultimate extreme, like Goblin Slayer, where nobody has a name, only a title. That's a conscious choice by the author, as well.

This series is using nouns or adjectives as names at large, anyway. It might not be as deep as some other series (although maybe it is, and I'm just not paying enough attention), but it's there, nonetheless. Like Stark, whose name means strong/potent. He was actually first introduced as a coward, but he's also strong, whenever he's finally driven to the corner. Aura, the latest big demon, was basically all about the aura because her ultimate technique was based on whose mana pool is stronger, which usually is evident simply by measuring the aura a magician/demon emits. Relying on that was her downfall, though.

Beyond mere annoyance, I also find that it ruins (good) stories. I remember when Xenoblade 3 for Switch was announced and within hours, people within the Xeno-community had figured out the basic plot of the game, because the characters had names such as "Noah, Mio, N, M, or Offseer". There even was a diagram in the officially released material that made it extra easy to connect the dots. I mean, when your franchise is known for existential, sometimes biblical elements, what else could the story be about when the hero is called "Noah"?! :/

I also remember from Naruto, when Sasuke was fighting Danzou, and Sasuke got those two new crazy Sharingan-techniques, Izanamai and .. Izasagi or whatever. And people were simply googling those names and immediately knew what they were about, because Kishimoto simply took those names from existing legends.

Stuff like that is bad, because it spoils the things to come. Of course, since I consider Frieren (which btw is German for "(someone who's freezing") a bad, basicbitch story, there's not much ruined, but it's still an annoyance.

[David75]

Might be bad, but is also mimicking reality. I feel like naming people with their main "something different from others" is very common in France, Japan and maybe around the world.
All the smiths, boucher (butcher), legrand (bigguy), charpentier/carpenter, and a myriad others tell us its extremely common.
Is it well used here? maybe not, but Lügner probably named himself as a cunning joke. Or the demon naming him was a joker. I don't know how demons get a name in that show. I'd like they name themselves, funnier in the context of what we're discussing :-)

[Kraco]

Most manga/anime/game plots are simple enough that I wouldn't bother getting spoiled by names. Whenever there's a story with a bigger twist, I can't recall having been spoiled by names alone. Personally I also like villains having evil sounding names. That ought to be language/culture dependent, but despite Finnish not even being an Indo-European language, I still find Sauron to sound like the name of an evil guy and Mordor a place that wouldn't serve as a happy tourist resort.

German words often sound good and strong, so I won't blame the Japanese for wanting to use them like that. In this series' case, I'm absolutely certain the author even knows what the words mean.

[DarthEnderX]

A few stories take it to the ultimate extreme, like Goblin Slayer, where nobody has a name, only a title. That's a conscious choice by the author, as well.

A consciously dumb choice by the author, btw.

But, again, it makes more sense there, because Goblin Slayer isn't trying to hide the fact that he slays goblins. Presumably Lugner wouldn't want to advertise the fact that he's a liar. It's counterproductive.

Personally I also like villains having evil sounding names.

And that works, for a villain that WANTS to intimidate. The terrifying warlord calling himself Bloodfist. The wicked pirate calling himself Blackheart. They're TRYING to inspire fear and obedience.

It doesn't work for a villain that wants to inspire trust and complacency to call himself Lord Liar.

That's like calling your secret evil advisor something like, oh, I dunno...Wormtongue.

[Kraco]

It doesn't work for a villain that wants to inspire trust and complacency to call himself Lord Liar.

That's like calling your secret evil advisor something like, oh, I dunno...Wormtongue.

It's not like Lugner would have been born and lived centuries, or at least many decades (I don't remember if it was mentioned) just for the sake of this one mission. The way I see it, this was just something the demons decided to do on a whim, more or less. It was based on nothing but the humans being really, really tired of fearing the demons every time they exit the town gates. So, against their better judgement, they decided to give the demons a chance, cautiously. So, no matter what the demon diplomat's name was, the whole thing was unlikely from the beginning. The name wouldn't really matter.

Perhaps Lugner got his name a long time ago and it was related to his personal history. It's possible the humans had forgotten or at least this town's folks never knew about it. If you look at our world, people in the highest political positions kept trusting Putin until the open war against Ukraine was finally launched last year. Before that, Putin had already done great many things to remove all trust, but when people really hope for the best, they only see and hear what they want to see and hear.

[DarthEnderX]

It's not like Lugner would have been born and lived centuries, or at least many decades (I don't remember if it was mentioned) just for the sake of this one mission.

Okay, fair. But then lie about your name!

"Greetings! My name is Lord Ehrlich. I'm here to negotiate on behalf of the Demon Peace Association."

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 11

-----------------------------










See, I was bothered by how if Fern should not have been able to sneak up on Frieren if she had a healthy mana pool. If Heiter started the training then it all makes sense.

I also liked that Frieren didn't tell her story to the monk. It keeps Heiter special, and is consistent with Frieren's general secrecy about her technique.

The menacing tree-lopper and Stark being paraded while unconscious were gold.

[Kraco]

Stark must have fallen ill, otherwise it's hard to imagine he would be the one to become General Winter's first victim. Especially since it wasn't even that cold, by the looks of it. Those three did nothing to shield their heads and hands, after all. Anyone with experience of sub-zero temperatures with the additional wind effect knows that's no good. But then again, who knows where the mangaka lives. Probably down south, in Okinawa where the only ice exists in WcDonald's soda cups. Anyway, Fern should have just put a rope around Stark's waist and then used magic to float him.

It's pretty funny they used six months in that random cottage, just like that. It really shows Frieren has a very loose concept of time, with Fern and Stark being infected by her already. Maybe the mountains would have been impossible to cross in deep snow, but in six months they could have visited other places on their side of the mountains.

[Buffalobiian]

I'd argue that they'd get lost traveling in winter like that since that's the main issue initially (as well as hypothermia).

But then despite being lost, they found the cabin just fine.

[David75]

I wouldn't be surprised Frieren has some sort of GMPS: Global Mana Positioning System. She probably can recognize any place from its mana signature and many other places along the way, probably ley lines too.

[Kraco]

It's not like it's a snowstorm throughout the whole winter. A bloody long winter, six months, btw. Especially since Frieren and Fern can levitate high up in the sky, how could they even get lost when a snowstorm isn't blocking the view? I feel like Fern didn't want to wander the wilderness in the winter cold and snow, it being too uncomfortable, Stark would be too scared to do it, and for Frieren mere six months means nothing.

[DarthEnderX]

Well now that we have another Elf for comparison, I guess Frieren is just weird.


Also, Elves aren't just uncommon, they're so rare that individual Elves think their race might be extinct.


Also also, despite being 1000, Frieren is apparently still considered young.

[Buffalobiian]

Also also, despite being 1000, Frieren is apparently still considered young.

How did you come to that opinion?

I'm sure we'll see Kraft again. He's apparently a big shot, going by their dialogue. At the very least, he's accomplished.

edit: I see it's when he calls Frieren young, because he finds her lack of belief in a Goddess to be a thought suited to the young, while he's supposedly lived to much that everyone who knew of his deeds has died and only the Goddess will remember who he truly is.

But that's just because Frieren only defeated the Demon Lord 80 years ago and people still remember her. If she had defeated the Demon Lord in the first half of her life and isn't as emotionally stunted as she is, she could feel similarly about how no one remembers her deeds from 500 years ago.

After that comment, he actually invited Frieren to share her life story with him and he'd do the same back, then he'd praise her. She declined though. So I don't think he's necessarily aware of her true age.

[Kraco]

After that comment, he actually invited Frieren to share her life story with him and he'd do the same back, then he'd praise her. She declined though. So I don't think he's necessarily aware of her true age.

I was going to write the same, but then I remembered they spent six months sharing that same small cottage, surrounded by the harsh winter that prevented them from doing much. What exactly would they do there all those weeks and months if not talk about stuff? Surely something as basic as their ages weas mentioned in the talks, directly or indirectly (to be inferred from stuff they would discuss, like ancient things one would have needed to live through to know about). That specific talk, where he called her young, was in the early spring, so most of their time together was behind them already, maybe five months or more.

[DarthEnderX]

How did you come to that opinion?

The other elf literally called her "still young".

So I don't think he's necessarily aware of her true age.

If that's the case, then that's fine. But I don't see any reason to doubt him at this time. I would assume that elves are better able to tell the age of other elves than other races are.

[Ryllharu]

It's not like it's a snowstorm throughout the whole winter. A bloody long winter, six months, btw. Especially since Frieren and Fern can levitate high up in the sky, how could they even get lost when a snowstorm isn't blocking the view? I feel like Fern didn't want to wander the wilderness in the winter cold and snow, it being too uncomfortable, Stark would be too scared to do it, and for Frieren mere six months means nothing.

Plenty of mountain passes are blocked for the entire winter and spring due to snow. 5-9 meters of snow from the winter can last well into August. I don't think it is that unreasonable to wait.