Sousou no Frieren

[Kraco]

To be fair, I reckon Fern would have actually detected her own clone. She's also quite a systematic person, so I doubt she would have simply neglected to consider the possibility entirely. Not only that, but who wouldn't think of their own clone? That ought to be the first thought in anyone's mind.

How about that one dude who's always using a dublicate to avoid danger? What would Spiegel clone? A clone of a clone? I wonder if it's possible to draw all the relevant information out of a dublicate in the first place. Maybe his clone is just standing in a T-pose, unable to do anything, haha.

[Buffalobiian]

Fern wouldn't be able to detect her own clone unless her clone did something. It's like two submarines detecting each other passively. They'll just hide until the first one makes a move.

[shinta|hikari]

The really interesting thing about Freiren's weakness is it will only allow an enemy (at least of the level we have been shown so far) to kill her if she was keeping herself busy.

[MFauli]

episode 26:

Glad it ended and wasn't drawn out into another episode.

Tbh I'm disappointed our fanfiction didn't come true and clone-Fern just showed up in a montage against the detection-mage. Ah well, not the anime's fault.

That some of them failed the test just for getting unlucky is bs, but I also like how it's not a happy end for all of them.

If I understood the final fight correct, Fern COULD have beaten clone-Frieren, but she was too soft and stopped after inflicting a "fatal wound" - she should have completely obliterated the clone. That gave the clone to use some super-move of Frieren's which, in turn, let Frieren finish it off instead of Fern.

I still think Sense is full of shit. Her safety-golems only work if one is fast enough to use them. We knew that clone-Sense cannot be detected by most, so good luck, eh. That actually made anxious when I imagined playing a video game with a super strong enemy wandering around that could anytime kill you. Alien Isolation and Resident Evil 3 come to mind >_>

I like Übel, though. She's crazy, probably a good amount of evil, but there's something about her. I'd hope she finds a good man who leads her to a path of light.

[shinta|hikari]

Ubel is officially lesbian.

[MFauli]

Ubel is officially lesbian.

All the more reason she needs a man, AMIRITE?!!?!?!

:P

[DarthEnderX]

I like Übel, though. She's crazy, probably a good amount of evil, but there's something about her.

I always like it when a character who's not completely indoctrinated in the accepted rules of a power system are able to completely break the power system purely by dint of the fact that they didn't know you couldn't do that.

[Ryllharu]

I still think Sense is full of shit. Her safety-golems only work if one is fast enough to use them. We knew that clone-Sense cannot be detected by most, so good luck, eh. That actually made anxious when I imagined playing a video game with a super strong enemy wandering around that could anytime kill you. Alien Isolation and Resident Evil 3 come to mind >_>

I like Übel, though. She's crazy, probably a good amount of evil, but there's something about her. I'd hope she finds a good man who leads her to a path of light.

I always like it when a character who's not completely indoctrinated in the accepted rules of a power system are able to completely break the power system purely by dint of the fact that they didn't know you couldn't do that.

Ubel is the bright spot of this test in the arc.

She reveals a bit of arrogance and hypocrisy in the gatekeeping that the Mage Association does with this exam.

Ubel understands magic on a more fundamental level than most of the cast. It's all about visualization first, then the mechanics behind it fulfill it come after. In contrast, Fern was taught the mechanics first. Ubel just ignores the mechanics. It's consistent with her other skill of empathizing with another and then taking their magic specialty. She believes that once she does, she'll inherently know their trademark spell, and then she simply does.

The magic association members are crippling themselves and their examinees with predilections, intentionally or otherwise. The flashback showed that they frequently plan the 2nd test to be nearly impossible to pass. I don't really buy their excuse that a First Class mage should be capable of overcoming these challenges when they've surrounded themselves with specialists and then design tests around their areas of expertise.

The way they set up that previous test, Ubel was the only one who could ever have passed it. Maybe Richter could have, or Kanne, but they'd have been disqualified by the other offensive spell limits the association placed "for safety."

It's a great moment that Sense just fails to believe that Ubel could cut anything. She lost from the moment they even spoke. Sense then fails to learn anything by justifying it to herself that Ubel is simply crazy and a sociopath.

And yeah, Sense can talk about how she's a pacifist all she wants and how the test should be easy if they all cooperated, but the Association designed this test to fail as many examinees as possible, and Sense herself tagging along was the contingency plan.

[Buffalobiian]

Ubel is officially lesbian.

Stark_NANDE.jpeg.

(Camera-man did some between-the-thigh shots of Ubel again :3)

If I understood the final fight correct, Fern COULD have beaten clone-Frieren, but she was too soft and stopped after inflicting a "fatal wound" - she should have completely obliterated the clone.

Frieren did mention that the little opennings she managed to produce weren't enough for Fern to recognise, which points towards areas of improvement for Fern herself.

She recognised the obvious openning however and quickly jumped on that. She would have been able to blast Clone-Frieren more at the expense of using more mana (she probably wasn't low, but she did still have to deal with AOE attacks). Fern also couldn't see if Clone-Frieren was still up since she had to wait for the dust to settle before commenting "She's still standing". So she fired what she thought was a fatal barrage.

It was cool to see the "mana pressure" attack. It's a rather cool trope in combat/martial arts shows where the height of technique is just a formless blow of some sort. Fern said she didn't detect any mana, but there's clearly a magic circle underneath the clone so it's a magic attack. Maybe she means she didn't detect mana being converted into a spell or something since this is just Frieren's mana in your face (she'd have been releasing mana all throughout the fight anyway).

It looks like it's a channelling cast though, so that just totally brought out Frieren's "I don't detect magic when I'm casting" weakness fully for exploit. If only it was an omnidirectional attack - then the weakness wouldn't have mattered.

edit: Poor Fern got her staff crushed. She's had that since her Heiter days.

edit2: Oh, based on this episode, the boss room was on the same floor as Frieren's clone, so anyone who made it to that floor should actually be given a pass.

[Ryllharu]

It was cool to see the "mana pressure" attack. It's a rather cool trope in combat/martial arts shows where the height of technique is just a formless blow of some sort. Fern said she didn't detect any mana, but there's clearly a magic circle underneath the clone so it's a magic attack. Maybe she means she didn't detect mana being converted into a spell or something since this is just Frieren's mana in your face (she'd have been releasing mana all throughout the fight anyway).

It looks like it's a channelling cast though, so that just totally brought out Frieren's "I don't detect magic when I'm casting" weakness fully for exploit. If only it was an omnidirectional attack - then the weakness wouldn't have mattered.

To this day, one of my favorite moments in any fantasy fiction is from Scrapped Princess when Raquel displays how shield magic is as offensive as it is defensive. Very similar vibe.

I assume that Frieren's attack wasn't just the full release of her mana pressure, but either a curse she knows somehow (hence not recognizing it as a directed attack), or something from the mythic age long before she ever met Flamme.

[MFauli]

Hm, I don't remember that Raquel offensive shield-scene. But now that you mentioned Scrapped Princess, I kinda feel like rewatching it. Great anime that I didn't appreciate back then, but would nowadays call it a masterpiece compared to the new stuff ...

Ubel is the bright spot of this test in the arc.

She reveals a bit of arrogance and hypocrisy in the gatekeeping that the Mage Association does with this exam.

Ubel understands magic on a more fundamental level than most of the cast. It's all about visualization first, then the mechanics behind it fulfill it come after. In contrast, Fern was taught the mechanics first. Ubel just ignores the mechanics. It's consistent with her other skill of empathizing with another and then taking their magic specialty. She believes that once she does, she'll inherently know their trademark spell, and then she simply does.

The magic association members are crippling themselves and their examinees with predilections, intentionally or otherwise. The flashback showed that they frequently plan the 2nd test to be nearly impossible to pass. I don't really buy their excuse that a First Class mage should be capable of overcoming these challenges when they've surrounded themselves with specialists and then design tests around their areas of expertise.

The way they set up that previous test, Ubel was the only one who could ever have passed it. Maybe Richter could have, or Kanne, but they'd have been disqualified by the other offensive spell limits the association placed "for safety."

It's a great moment that Sense just fails to believe that Ubel could cut anything. She lost from the moment they even spoke. Sense then fails to learn anything by justifying it to herself that Ubel is simply crazy and a sociopath.

And yeah, Sense can talk about how she's a pacifist all she wants and how the test should be easy if they all cooperated, but the Association designed this test to fail as many examinees as possible, and Sense herself tagging along was the contingency plan.

What you say sounds good on a quick glimpse, but really: You're excusing bs writing where Übel just can do WHATEVER. All the other mages go through years of harsh training to learn magic, and you're praising Übel for simply "doing" stuff. Ultimately, it's bs writing, because if everyone just "did" whatever they envision, magic would be total chaos ... and way too powerful and dangerous. So I don't think it's fair to criticize Sense for calling Übel a psychopath and, especially, when she says that Übel's mind is not human. I think that's quite literally the case, which explans why magic in general requires years of training. Nobody but Übel could "just do" stuff.

[Ryllharu]

What you say sounds good on a quick glimpse, but really: You're excusing bs writing where Übel just can do WHATEVER. All the other mages go through years of harsh training to learn magic, and you're praising Übel for simply "doing" stuff. Ultimately, it's bs writing, because if everyone just "did" whatever they envision, magic would be total chaos ... and way too powerful and dangerous. So I don't think it's fair to criticize Sense for calling Übel a psychopath and, especially, when she says that Übel's mind is not human. I think that's quite literally the case, which explans why magic in general requires years of training. Nobody but Übel could "just do" stuff.

Don't think about it that way.

I loathe most of the writing in this part of the Examination arc, to the point that I actually blocked most of it out after having read the manga. This test is bullshit and the writing in it is terrible. Methode even used more random abilities (suddenly having the best mana sense!?!?) to plug in more plot holes.

But Ubel's mini-arc here is well-founded because it proves the point that the Magic Association doesn't know shit about magic. Same kind of line that Frieren has been telling Fern all along ("You only need 'basic' magic to defeat any modern era mage"). Frieren has an enormous repertoire of combat spells, but she never uses them either. You don't need them.

Ubel shows the point that magic is more instinctual than most believe. It's not bullshit writing because Ubel has been saying this the entire time she's been on screen. Yes, she operates just like a demon, but she is human. Don't think that she's invincible or superpowered. Ubel knows she can cut anything that can be cut, and she set rules for herself to make it work (i.e. she can't cut the shield because it is meant to stop spells, the end).

The Magic Association is simply WRONG about magic. Ubel shouldn't be able to cut. The dome shield is unbreakable. They've deluded themselves into thinking they know the extent of magic. Frieren's attitude has always been about the discovery of new stuff.

Ubel may be kind of fucked up, but she also just wants to learn new spells too (thus her empathize and copy behavior), while constantly being wowed by simple things like cutting fabric (and today, anything else that can be cut in her mind).

Ultimately, the series isn't a "Hard Magic System" to use the terminology of English fantasy series analysis. There's really no rules of how the system is supposed to work in the first place. The Magic Association does, as do the formal schools that Erhe, Kanne, Lawine went to. Frieren, Flamme, and Ubel know that there aren't any.

edit: Ubel's specialty of magic isn't any different from Kara no Kyoukai abilities if you want to assess it against another series that no one has any issues with. There's abilities that Turn/Rotate/Twist things, spells that Ignite things, and mystic eyes that Kill Anything Magical.

[David75]

Ubel is a genius at her specialty. So she sees and feels things that can't be explained with common knowledge and skills.
In sports, maths or any field, you sometimes meet people with skills you'd think are impossible if you didn't see them for yourself.
For example I've seen carpenters cutting long pieces of wood with hand tools, without measuring and perfectly straight too, with perfect fit. Should I try, can't cut straight, can't fit as well even when measuring. And that is basic level of skills for them.

Regarding the Cloak mage, well Ubel did infringe on a rule because it was set that way to fail everyone.
The trick probably was to overpower the spells. Cutting is putting force on a very small area. Could apply to her mana blade, you'd need an incredible lot of mana to block that on a large area. Or you can relocate your mana, but expose other parts.

[Kraco]

It kinds of bothers me nobody tried to lead one of the clones to Sense. The clones would have naturally attacked her as well, considering she's also an intruder. I guess it would have been risky since she grew her roots right next to the last chamber door, but it would have been justice.

Ubel is a genius at her specialty. So she sees and feels things that can't be explained with common knowledge and skills.

I'd say she's more like a crazy woman than a genius. She believes in a world nobody else believes in. Though maybe the demons do. It's extremely difficult to live like that, with beliefs contradicting everything others would keep telling you, contradicting what is commonly believed to be true. It's like being a flat Earth believer in the academic world.

So, is she more right about magic than others? Possibly, but it doesn't matter since any random person probably can't become like her just by trying. Any random person can follow the regular, methodical route, though. Maybe people (test subjects) brought up from early childhood in isolation, like a monastery, "brainwashed" with a world view like Ubel's, could produce more of them. The problem is, though, that as soon as those experiments started to interact with folks in the wide world, outside of the isolated environment, most of them probably would lose their powers very soon.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 27

--------------------------------------------


So Serie is a beast.

Given that Frieren's fought demons (and presumably studied them either through combat or off the field), it's weird that she was surprised about Aura commenting about their keen perception of mana - as if it's an unknown thing to Frieren.

Presumably both Frieren and Serie can both see their own fluctuations - otherwise you wouldn't know it exists.

[Y]

It's strange they kept the line in where Frieren says Serie isn't going to pass either her or Fern, and also the line later where she says Serie is certain to pass Fern no matter what she says.

[DarthEnderX]

It's strange they kept the line in where Frieren says Serie isn't going to pass either her or Fern, and also the line later where she says Serie is certain to pass Fern no matter what she says.

No. She said said Serie INTENDS to fail them both. But that she wouldn't after she saw Fern's potential.


Either way, they were only even doing this to get permission to travel north. So the fact that Fern is getting her license means the story can continue, even if Frieren fails.

[Y]

No. She said said Serie INTENDS to fail them both. But that she wouldn't after she saw Fern's potential.

The sub I watched just had her say "Serie won't let you or me pass".

[Kraco]

I suppose it's not strange for Serie to say she's surprised Frieren could beat the demon king. After all, Serie herself couldn't have done it, yet she considers Frieren a failure of a mage. But then again, Serie's intuition is always right, so she would have known Frieren could do it. Uhhuh.

Maybe it's just because I dislike Serie so much, but I feel like the humans are doing a disservice to themselves by allowing Serie to have the highest position in the organisation of magicians. I can't help but feel it's like the Vulcans overseeing humans in the Star Trek universe for many a shameful year.

[MFauli]

That was bs, though, lol.

Blabla, you guys explanating why it fits the series, blabla. We spend 10 episodes on a fierce mage exam and the end it with an anticlimatic scene where one person just fails you without even bothering to explain why unless you ask. You cannot even call this a learning lesson ("never let yourself be overwhelmed by someone"), when that is something that could be taught at any prior time. No need to wait years for retrying the exam.

Tbh I will be really upset if Denken doesn't get to pass, yet I kinda expect it, because Denken thinks a lot (Serie: "Too much"?). And hilariously, Übel probably should get to pass because she's never afraid of an enemy and always just imagines cutting anyone down.

Frieren being failed is just bs, too. Honestly, I want someone to prove to Serie that her "intuition" is not fail-proof. Why did she even shit on her human disciple like that? Totally random.



Btw. wtf, Serie was a woman? Didn't know that lol.