Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[Buffalobiian]

On a more serious note: Since everything is TOO happy for a series that's in the middle of its running, one thing I'd LOVE to see happen is Hitogami at some point forcing Rudy to live in his old pre-isekai body again - while still in the isekai! I've felt for a long time that, no matter what psychological harships Rudy goes through, he still enjoys the huge feat of having this new, young, handsome body. That's easily on par with being reborn at all. He might have overcome his psychological problems, but he has surely not overcome the insecurities of his old appearance. As someone who's more like Rudy's old self (worse ...), I'd love to see this anime tackle that side of his old problems, too. How would he react if everything stayed the same, except now he has his own body back? How would the others react? Would Sylphie and Roxy still love him despite being ugly and fat? Would Norn and Aisha still treat him as their brother? What about all his friends? Being handsome is such an enormous advantage on top of magic powers and stuff, seeing how Rudy overcomes his true appearance would be super exciting

No real change, because:

1) He's still him inside
2) He's still an outstanding mage.

If he was no longer the outstanding mage, that would be more difficult.

Hitogami shouldn't be able to change his appearance, because despite being a "God" he doesn't seem to manipulate the physical world much. Rudy's soul reincarnated into his current body. This is real. It's just his perception that's warped in the dreams.

So third wife should be Eris... and she will want to be the first obviously

Indeed. I think that she'll settle for 3rd since:

1) She is "technically" first, and
2) She decided to bail because she "wasn't a good match", so that's on her.

[MFauli]

- Impregnating the beast girls when they're in heat would have resulted in Rudeus losing the respect of his sister and probably the trust of his wife.

Ok, NOW we know what the regret is ;>

Fuck Norn, impregnating TWO beast girls would have been worth it, plus Norn would eventually understand how men's minds work. Sylphie gave him the okay long ago, and tbh Sylphie would probably prefer Rudy to casually fuck around rather than bring home a second wife who he loves as much as her.

[DarthEnderX]

He very clearly tried to persuade Rudeus wrong this time.

Lol, there's literally no way for you to be able to make that conclusion, because we have no idea what would have happened instead had he stayed(other than he would have had another kid, which, in and of itself, is already a pretty massive loss).

But we know the outcome Rudeus chose instead benefitted Rudeus greatly despite the cost.

Did it? He gained a wife, but lost a hand and a potential child.

What if, at some pivotal point in the future, he's unable to save someone else, because he's missing a hand? It could be something as trivial as Sylphie dying because he's unable to reach out and grab her.

Or maybe beast kid would have ended up saving someone that he couldn't.

We simply don't have enough information. But you're insistence that we do is starting to border on manga-prophet territory.

Fuck Norn, impregnating TWO beast girls would have been worth it, plus Norn would eventually understand how men's minds work.

But also how Beastman society works.

By having a child with one of the beastmen, he possibly would have earned the loyalty of their entire tribe. Which might have played a pivotal role in events later.

[Kraco]

I expect Rudeus to get his hand back at some point. The reactions to his missing appendage were exceptionally mild, if you ask me. Sylphie didn't even comment on it at all, if memory serves. It seemed equal to a soldier in our world coming back from a dangerous mission missing a few teeth. Must have been painful and a testament to the hardships suffered, but a visit to a dentist will see it fixed in such a manner that nobody will notice the difference afterwards.

[Buffalobiian]

Rather than it not being a big deal, I just assumed that it was small in the context of Paul dying.

[MFauli]

Fwiw I, too, fully expect him to get a hand again. Didn't someone here make the theory that he's get a mechanical hand using the puppet-magic?

[DarthEnderX]

Fwiw I, too, fully expect him to get a hand again. Didn't someone here make the theory that he's get a mechanical hand using the puppet-magic?

Probably. But that doesn't mean something can't happen in the meantime.

Like another portal storm. He's holding someone in one hand, reaches for Sylphie with the other but...no hand. They end up separated again.

[Buffalobiian]

Probably. But that doesn't mean something can't happen in the meantime.

Like another portal storm. He's holding someone in one hand, reaches for Sylphie with the other but...no hand. They end up separated again.

"Rudy, if me and Roxy drown in a pool, who will you save?"

xD

(Answer would be use magic)

[MFauli]

"Rudy, if me and Roxy drown in a pool, who will you save?"

xD

(Answer would be use magic)

"Easy answer: I'd let both of you drown, because I love both of you so much. Then after an adequate period of briefing, I'd look for a new wife!"

[KrayZ33]

Watched this all in one go.
I was a bit let down by Ruijerd's appearance.

He's still the best character in the whole show and all that, but when they talked about Eris the whole scene felt really "forced"
If they somehow made an attempt to suggest that Ruijerd could know more about Eris' intend, like through an experience or information he had in the last years, that would've been fine. Or if they showed him actually "thinking" about it, it would've felt alright.

But it basically went like this:

Rudeus: "Eris disappeared on m-"
Ruijerd: "YOU MISUNDERSTOOD HER - *cough* hm, excuse me, M-A-Y-B-E you just misunderstood her, maybe not, who can tell!?"

Overall I'd say the last 3-4 episodes were great.
I was really amazed by the hydra fight and I think that one is easily the best anime fight ever made when it comes to fighting a giant monster class-enemy as a group of people or just fighting one its size in general. Without a doubt, even.
Paul's death came quick and I love the idea that he didn't get to say any words.
The small hint at a smile was all it took and all we needed. He was a weird/bad father but it's not like he was evil, he was just incompetent at being a father.

To me this felt like he was, for the first time, able to save Rudy and not the other way around and in the end, he was able to save Zenith without sacrificing anyone but himself (at least none of his friends, who knows with how many random parties they explored the ruins with). I actually felt really bad for him in the end and I still do, in fact, because he clearly loved his children and while he most likely had a more than just "fun" first half of his life, he never got around to see his grandchildren. Hell, not even that, he didn't even get to experience his own son und daughters growing up due to the teleportation incident.

Zenith seems to be somewhere between completely gone and then... not. Since this is Mushoku and I have a bit higher expectations for this show than others, I actually believe her grabbing the armor of Paul is intentional and not just pointless pandering among the lines of "Look, even the retard is sad".


Sylphie with long hair looks quite beautiful. (but it kinda also tells you how much of a "boring" role she has to play in this show if that's all I can say about her)

Roxies childish dream (season 1) of being rescued in a labyrinths became true
"One day, a tall, slim, young man who's manly but still makes childish expressions will save me by chance in the depths of a labyrinth. Then we'll team up, and as we work together, love will bloom between us..."
That was quite amusing.

I liked Norn's reactions as they were "believable". Her way of thinking was portrayed well and her bawling her eyes out was sad to witness. The "2nd wife" thing became quite intense and that was done/written in a good way aswell. To me at least it was quite believable that Rudeus didn't get Roxy in his harem for some "variety"-reasons, but because he actually loves her just like Sylphie.

Roxy was being bad here, but in my opinion the show didn't even try to hide it... way before she herself admitted it in person.
You could totally tell that she wanted to bed Rudy with ulterior motives (or for her own sake/hopes), to the point where I thought to myself "girl, you are really out of touch there... your timing sucks"
When she admitted doing so while *knowing* everything about his pregnant wife it started to make sense.
So in a way I actually respect this show writing that scene in that way, even if everyone got the "happy ending without consequences" (which tbh, is how I prefer it anyway) in the end.
But they did at least not shy away from showing Roxy with rather poor morals (love trumps everything after all, especially if FOMO comes along as well)


I need a reminder though, who is japanese girl mentioning again with "I have to ask her/him(?) about this teleport thing again" or something like that? I forgot the exact words, but I feel like it's not the dragon guy.

[MFauli]

"not for variety, but because he actually loves the two"

said every guy ever ;P

[Buffalobiian]

I need a reminder though, who is japanese girl mentioning again with "I have to ask her/him(?) about this teleport thing again" or something like that? I forgot the exact words, but I feel like it's not the dragon guy.

Not specified.

It's the person who owned Rudy's house and the puppet. The insignia looked very much like a dragon, but was objectively different to the previous symbol that was shown to represent the Dragon God.

[Kraco]

In a world where polygamy is normal, Roxy is far less immoral than she would be in most of our world. Of course if she knew Rudeus belongs to the Milis faith, it would be a different thing, but in fact she has a reason to suspect he doesn't, despite his mother. Furthermore, it's a world that has far more gender equality than the historical times in our reality, so women have every reason to be active in seeking their own happiness, without it raising eyebrows. It's obviously thanks to the great equaliser magic. She even knows Rudeus is a pervert, so her attack was not founded on nothing but her own lust and desire to have a single moment with Rudeus before he returns to his family: If a deeply religious person is in anguish, a priest would be the greatest help to them. If a battle junkie is depressed, a great, fair match might get them out of it. If a communist is feelings lost, slaughtering a capitalist would help them get their spirit back. Finally, if a pervert is feeling like it's the end of the world, having sex with a person they have loved since years ago would surely do the trick.

[KrayZ33]

Perhaps, but even where polygamy is normal, there are usually still rules that apply and you don't "bust in"(to) a relationship like that.
Often there is the 1st wive, the second wive, concubines, well... a hierarchy, and ideally all parties agree beforehand.

I mean, in the end it always takes two, but Roxy for sure did make use of Rudeus' mentally weak state and "pressed the issue forward". I was kinda relieved when I heard it in her own words because even after watching that scene for a second time, Roxy's way of cheering up Rudeus' felt really awkward and unnatural. It almost felt like what they were talking about was more about her than Rudeus.

As Norn rightfully pointed out, if she were convinced to step aside, she would have anyways after the "deed", but she had lingering hopes that got (thankfully) rewarded.
It's not that I dislike Roxy for that, in fact, almost the opposite because that made her character really interesting for me and not as one dimensional. I think overall that was a really great and "adult"(ery) moment for a topic in anime that is usually stopped with the wave of a hand. Either MC gets the girls just like that, with no conflict whatsoever, or all the girls - for whatever reason - accept that there is FemaleMC and give up because they know they are just supporting characters. Or they have a fake rivalry with female MC that they never actually intend on winning (or perhaps I should say that the author never intends to do anything with these additional characters).

What I also really loved is that Roxy stood there and took the "beating" from Norn and had no way to defend herself, because there just wasn't much she could rightfully say. Not sure how to put it into words, but she kinda accepted it gracefully and didn't turn sour.

Another thing that I found interesting, is that the teaching of Millis kinda are important for the people but not in a way that everyone seems to be "nuts" and fanatical about them, it doesn't seem like they are actively trying to convert unbelievers or shame them... at least the normal folk doesn't do that to each other.. That being said, at the same time we actually know that there is a powerstruggle in the church, one side wants demons gone, the other doesn't, so it's not like all of them are "open" to everyone.
It's likely that we just meet the good people that aren't the fanatics, but even they (as a faction) use assassins. But so far there was no "crazy priest" dooming everyone not following the faith.

Geese mentioned that, when they visited the Holy Country of Millis, Saint Millis supposedly cleaved the road out of mountains and forests in a single stroke, and you could actually tell that this isn't just 100% a legend, because the cliffs they passed looked very unnatural. If such power exists, it equals that of gods in my opinion.
So there seems to be some serious power bound to that faith.

[Kraco]

Not that Norn would have had anything to do with anything, though. Just a little while ago she intensely disliked and feared, if not hated, Rudeus. She got a mighty high horse suddenly. She's nothing but Rudeus's sister, so what happens in Rudeus+Sylphie family has got nothing to do with her. Rudeus is not Norn's dad, so he's giving her a home and looking after her only because he's a decent dude, who loves his birth family as well, not only his new family with Sylphie.

The moment the actual person this concerns the most, Sylphie, spoke, she welcomed Roxy in, having judged her worthy, and what she had previously learned of indirectly to be true. So, I wouldn't place much value on Norn's words. She was loud and judgemental, but it wasn't really her place to say all of that, even if it allowed Sylphie to evaluate Roxy further, by observing Roxy's reaction to all that.

[Buffalobiian]

From a narrative and perhaps psychological perspective it's useful to have Norn vent on Sylphie's behalf, regardless of whether or not Sylphie would have spoken those words herself.

It shows her that there's someone that supports her, and also allows the frustration to be vented. It's easier for her to be the nicer person once the frustration is vented, regardless of who does it.

[KrayZ33]

Norn was just showing empathy towards Sylphie and fought for her on her behalf because it doesn't take much to realise that Sylphie herself won't do that often, even if it would benefit her and even if it would be the right thing to do.

Norn is Rudeus' sister (full), Rudeus isn't just a decent dude, he is the head of family now and has the responsibility to take care of Norn btw.
Saying it's "only because he is a decent dude" is a bit silly (or not doing it justice) because you are acting like Norn is an adult that can take care of herself(?). Literally everything Rudeus decides to do is directly affecting her for the near future.
Rudeus + Sylphie family *is* Norns family. It's also quite unfair to her because she didn't get to decide to be there with Rudeus, that's a decision the former head of family made. Paul.


But true, it's quite obvious that Norn just feels hurt for Sylphie's sake and doesn't actually know or trust Roxy yet. It feels wrong to her and promises made to a person she learned to respect (and that is very vulnerable right now) were seemingly broken. In my opinion it is proof that she has quite strong ideals and perhaps her stubborn attitude is getting in the way of making friendly discussions.
But unlike Eris at the beginning, at least Norn doesn't seem to be completely unaware of her lack of skills, especially since both her sister and brother are geniuses and she is just "average" - so I think she can handle not being right or having her way all the time.

[Kraco]

Norn is a part of Rudeus's biological family, but she has got no part in the Rudeus+Sylphie+Roxy core family. It's not her business. Sure, you could say she was speaking for Sylphie, but how can you then say in the same paragraph that it's silly to assume Norn would act like an adult responsible for herself? She can speak on an adult's behalf but can't be considered responsible for herself, like an adult? How does that work? Her speech was nothing but the tirade of someone whose personal feelings and values were hurt, yet it doesn't really concern her personally. Yes, her outburst did help Sylphie to better understand Roxy's character, but I was feeling sorry for Roxy, who just needed to stand there and walk away in tears, until she was stopped by Sylphie, who actually understood what was going on.

It's honestly kind of strange how entitled Norn is acting all the time. Perhaps it's nothing but a psychological defense mechanism when she suffered through the years of hearing how mediocre she is, while her sister and brother were called geniuses. She could grow up to be a petty villainess, but at least she does have a great brother, so maybe that won't happen.

[KrayZ33]

Norn is a part of Rudeus's biological family, but she has got no part in the Rudeus+Sylphie+Roxy core family. It's not her business. Sure, you could say she was speaking for Sylphie, but how can you then say in the same paragraph that it's silly to assume Norn would act like an adult responsible for herself? She can speak on an adult's behalf but can't be considered responsible for herself, like an adult? How does that work?

wdym, lol.
What she did doesn't mean she is acting like an adult - or rather, that she has become one now.
Speaking up for a friend is the right thing to do and something you learn from your parents/the people you respect, and I'm sure you did this when you were 5 or 6 years old at a time perhaps if such a situation has arisen.
No one would ever think "you are an adult now" after you do that. And I'm sure you agree here. I'm not saying she is acting like a responsible person, I'm trying to argue the opposite, she is a rough gem that has to be processed into something beautiful yet. At moments, you can clearly realise that she knows wrong from right and considers the feeling of others even over her own, that needs to be refined now.

What I pointed out is that it would be outragous for Rudeus to act like Norn has nothing to do with this and should not consider her, which is what you are implying when you sidestep her like that.
She can easily be overruled if he decides so, but he should actually work to convince and teach her. (which is what Sylphie is helping with)
Norn is Rudeus' responsibility.

What's the difference between Rudy back when Paul got his second wife and Norn when Rudy got his second wife? Paul and Zenith listened to Rudy back then as well and didn't shun him or silence him.
Is it just the Son vs "just a Sister" relationship?

Since Norn has no father and basically no mother anymore, who takes the role of them now?

It's honestly kind of strange how entitled Norn is acting all the time. Perhaps it's nothing but a psychological defense mechanism when she suffered through the years of hearing how mediocre she is, while her sister and brother were called geniuses. She could grow up to be a petty villainess, but at least she does have a great brother, so maybe that won't happen.

It's not strange at all imho, she is a child.
Her fears and train of thoughts were shown in.. epsiode 16 or 17 I believe (before Rudeus came up to her bed, so it was early in the season) and it shows that her inner thoughts are constantly changing left and right because she seems to be the kind that needs someone to look up to.
That was Paul in the past because she never experienced anything but his loving side that would immediately die for her in a heartbeat if it were necessary.

Now she no longer has anyone and Rudeus needs to be that one. Yet Rudeus does some shady things that can be taken the wrong way.
I mean, lets face it.

Their father was searching for Mom and he came back with a drunk woman
Their father died and he came back with a new woman
She wanted to leave this house and live on her own, because she felt like she was not wanted - Rudeus basically "agreed" (unknowingly) and sent her away. She mistook that as him sending her away (which is of course silly since she herself asked this, but that's the childish thing that tells us she is a child and doesn't consider every (or most) possibilities)

So her affection/respect meter for Rudeus is constantly switching between 0-100%, which must make her really insecure about him.

[Kraco]

What I pointed out is that it would be outragous for Rudeus to act like Norn has nothing to do with this and should not consider her, which is what you are implying when you sidestep her like that.
She can easily be overruled if he decides so, but he should actually work to convince and teach her. (which is what Sylphie is helping with)
Norn is Rudeus' responsibility.

Why wouldn't I sidestep her when Sylphie, in whose defense Norn was supposedly speaking, sidestepped her? Rudeus did accept the duty to look after Norn (and Aisha, but now Aisha's mom is back), but that's still not nearly the same as a mother and father looking after their child. In our world Rudeus wouldn't yet be an adult, though he is in that old society. He's like five years older than Norn. Besides, I'm only disregarding Norn because...

It's not strange at all imho, she is a child.
Her fears and train of thoughts were shown in.. epsiode 16 or 17 I believe (before Rudeus came up to her bed, so it was early in the season) and it shows that her inner thoughts are constantly changing left and right because she seems to be the kind that needs someone to look up to.
That was Paul in the past because she never experienced anything but his loving side that would immediately die for her in a heartbeat if it were necessary.

Now she no longer has anyone and Rudeus needs to be that one. Yet Rudeus does some shady things that can be taken the wrong way.
I mean, lets face it.

Their father was searching for Mom and he came back with a drunk woman
Their father died and he came back with a new woman
She wanted to leave this house and live on her own, because she felt like she was not wanted - Rudeus basically "agreed" (unknowingly) and sent her away. She mistook that as him sending her away (which is of course silly since she herself asked this, but that's the childish thing that tells us she is a child and doesn't consider every (or most) possibilities)

So her affection/respect meter for Rudeus is constantly switching between 0-100%, which must make her really insecure about him.

... in the end, it was all about Norn herself, not Sylphie, Rudeus, or Roxy. Norn obviously adopted her mom's strict Milis principles, so she's quick to judge people on whatever ethical or moral grounds. She's suffering the most from the shattered family situation, not being a reincarnation like Rudeus or a genius like Aisha, so once she got "comfortable" with the current situation, she will object to anything that might change it. It's even worse because she probably imagined soon she would be living with her mom and dad all happily again, yet that hope was crushed for good. So, all she had got left were Rudeus, whom Norn still doesn't 100% trust, and Sylphie, who's easy to get along with due to her blank and amiable personality, not to mention she used to know Sylphie from the village. She felt threatened by Roxy appearing because it doesn't fit her Milis principles (a dear memory of her mom) and because she's not sure what would happen to her own place in the house if another woman appeared there.

What's the difference between Rudy back when Paul got his second wife and Norn when Rudy got his second wife? Paul and Zenith listened to Rudy back then as well and didn't shun him or silence him.
Is it just the Son vs "just a Sister" relationship?

Since Norn has no father and basically no mother anymore, who takes the role of them now?

Rudeus is Paul and Zenith's child. Norn is not Rudeus and Sylphie's child. Isn't that the point I was making from the beginning?

Nobody will take the place of Norn's parents. That's the reality she will need to deal with, even if she's still a child. Maybe one day Zenith will regain her self and Norn will again have a mother, for real. Maybe not. Norn herself knows this, which is why she wanted Roxy out of the house, because she feared her presence would diminish her own role in there. A role she probably can't quite comprehend partially due to distrusting Rudeus and how different she views her own values and Rudeus's values to be.